MiniDV is new Super 8
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Have MiniDV camcorders become old enough to start a "DV comeback"? In this video I compare DV to Super 8, Hi8 and VHS and show some test footage.
#MiniDV
Music by Eric Matyas, soundimage.org
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This thing is a dream for found-footage horror producers.
A lot of older found footage movies WERE shot on mini DV, Paranormal activity 1 was shot on a Sony FX1, Creep 1 & 2, and Leslie Vernon were shot on a DVX100b, honestly I love the way mini dv looks in movies, it just looks solid and colourful
My brother and I got to use MiniDV camcorders for our A/V Production classes in high school (I took the class in junior year, he did it in senior year). To this day, he still has a MiniDV tape with him and I really want to see what's on it because we haven't looked at it in a LONG time.
i might not be old enough for VHS but at least I recall owning miniDV
or atleast seeing a miniDV recording of me as a todler
Just got myself a VHC-C camcorder. Will be doing a video about it soon ;)
My dad had a JVC vhs camcorder, pretty sure it got thrown away but we then ended up with a little camcorder that used CDs, but I don’t think we ever really used it like the vhs one.
@@thomaspatrickparker6648 Shooting home video in the late 1980s and early 1990s was a big deal. As cameras became more common, and then smartphones appeared, it became mundane. I guess this is one of the reasons people use old tech: it feels more special, more exclusive, more involved, even if the result is the same or worse compared to using modern tech :)
I think the main difference between Super 8 and DV is the fact that the old technology of film can be enhanced and made into HD, where as video can only be upscaled and of course looks horrible compared to that. But I am working on a project that requires the look of video to be mixed with film so they both have an appeal. Just tools to create something visual, depending on the project.
I've read somewhere that Super 8 is good for only about 650 lines of resolution in video-speak, which is similar to PAL DV progressive. But if you want more resolution you can pick up an early HD camcorder like the Panasonic HDC-SD9, which shoots native 24p. I specifically narrowed on late DV variants, because of CCD (no wobble or skewing), native progressive (looks like film), and uses physical media that you can grab in a palm of your hand without being afraid to lose it in your pocket like a MicroSD card. A recent trend for more tactile, more involved shooting should not reverse the progress from film to video, so a cassette seems like a sensible middle ground. Not to mention that film is toxic to produce and to develop.
With motion-compensated de-interlacing (like QTGMC) and high-quality upscaling, MiniDV, Digital8, or even analog high-band videotape (Hi8 or Super VHS) can approach HD quality, with true 50 or 60 fps motion (depending if it's PAL or NTSC). The clips featured from the video "San Francisco summer 1992 in HD (Hi8)" show how good this can look.
@@vwestlife He posted a complete vapoursynth script here: ua-cam.com/video/vWKcxNrmTIc/v-deo.html He uses high-quality A/D card to grab Hi8 or SVHS via S-Video. Not to mention his Sony V6000 Pro Hi8 camcorder was practically professional grade and being a PAL variant, provided 20% more vertical resolution than a comparable NTSC model. Sadly, capacitors leaked out, and he threw it away.
I used to watch globe trekker and pilot guides and I wanted to make my travel videos in a similar style. They used super 8 b roll and I had the exact same idea as yours to use my old minidv to the same effect
Well, I used to watch "No Reservations" with Anthony Bourdain and wanted to shoot something similar, never happened :) They started with the DVX100, then V7U, then I think Z5U, then DSLRs, and then Red came out... So, they improved their look from season to season. This is the difference between pros and amateurs: pros use tech as a means to an end, to make a movie. They don't dwell about tech bygone :) The Travel Channel deleted their blog, it had a trove of info.
I wanted to use super 8 because it gives a very specific aesthetic to a video, unfortunately the costs of film-stock, developing and digitizing make it impractical. This is why I am using my old Panasonic DV camera
This was my point: shooting progressive-scan video (full frame scan without motion between the lines) using a CCD-based camera (global shutter) at 24 fps (cinematic frame rate) on a much cheaper and reusable media is a good middle ground between tactile experience of film, film look, and modern editing tools.
@@ConsumerDV I did months of research into how to do super 8 all by myself including developing, processing and digitising myself and the outlay would have been way too much, I already do all my still photography by film, and the investment would not have been worth it, when you can puck up mini DV equipment for next to nothing.
On the creative side it will mean I pick up a whole set of new skills, as well as expanding my creative horizons.
Great video, thank you! I am looking at getting into filming with camcorders for the exact reasons you speak of, as a middleway between super 8 look and modern dslrs. Some of the shots in this video convinced me that hi8 can be very clean and not over-stylized from modern perspective. I found it a bit different to navigate between all the formats without a lot of knowledge. Could you maybe recommend some kind of simple history or comparison of videotape format? Also, did camcorders with interchangeble lenses exist? Every bit of manual control is nice in my opinion.
Well, consumer video started with VHS-C and Video8. VHS-C was compatible with VHS by means of using a VHS cassette adapter - a big plus at the time. Both formats progressed to S-VHS-C and Hi8, still analog. Then DV standard was developed, and new cassettes for it: Full size (known as DVCAM), medium size (known as DVCPRO) and small ones (DVC or MiniDV). Several years later Sony ported DV codec to Video8 mechanism, creating Digital8. So Digital8 uses the same cassette as Video8/Hi8, but digital DV codec. Then HD came, first as HDV that used MiniDV cassettes, and then whole bunch of various file-based formats starting from AVCHD.
Camcorders with interchangeable lenses existed, like Canon XL2, for example. Shoulder mount, and its 60Hz version could record 24p.
If you want to get into DV, you need to stock up with MiniDV cassettes, looks like they are not being made anymore, and the supply runs out. I have enough, and after all they are re-recordable, although professionals usually used them only once. But I am not a pro.
You right. THX for share.
Great video sir!
Great video
What are some Mini DV camcorders that record in High Definition? I loveee analog video quality and the devices themselves, but SD is just too low for my project...
MiniDV-HD format is called HDV. You may want to take a look at this short video that lists all consumer-grade HDV camcorders and reviews one of them, sample footage is included: ua-cam.com/video/KAgJmFFKr1A/v-deo.html
It kills three bears with one stone..
Davaai
Hi! I´m an filmmaking student. Do you recommend the Sony MINI DV CDR TRV18 or better the DIGITAL 8 Sony CDR TRV530?. I think that the work with a mini dv camera is better. But i want a know your opinion about thats references. Thanks and cheers from Colombia.
DV has specific look. Unlike analog video, it is rock-solid stable, there is no line weaving. Color is less blurry. Also, compared to later CMOS-based cameras, there are no artifacts related to rolling shutter. I cannot comment on specific models, but want to mention that all Digital8 camcorders and most MiniDV camcorders are interlaced only. You can convert their video to progressive, but you will either lose resolution, or if you convert each field into a separate frame, it will not look "filmic". I suggest looking at MiniDV camcorders that can shoot in progressive mode like Panasonic GS400 and GS500, also Panasonic DVX100, Sony DCR-HC90 and HC96, Canon XL2. I suggest looking at PAL models, they have 20% more lines than NTSC models, and you can easily slow down 25fps to 24fps if you want "real" film frame rate.
Talented people made award-winning movies with DV camcorders in the past, for example "Iraq in Fragments" shot with a DVX100: ua-cam.com/video/NCf-rMTmFRM/v-deo.html or "Ghenghis Blues" shot with a Sony Digital8 camcorder: ua-cam.com/video/-_xlbCq0WTw/v-deo.html You can see ghosting and combing artifacts in "Ghenghis Blues", because this movie was transferred from 30i to 24p.
the footage around five minutes in the video are lovely, do you think that a sony handycam mini dv camcorder could bring the same results ?
Do you mean the flowers and the grass? Sure, any DV camcorder would produce something like this or better. This has been shot with a cheap MiniDV camcorder with 1/6-inch sensor. although in good light.
@@ConsumerDV great, thanks!
I like miniDV.But The color saturation of the pictures I take with miniDV is always low. I don't know why.
Low saturation even in good light? With only one out of four pixels having color information, DV is not very colorful, and if you try to push it, it looks splotchy. DVCPRO 50 should look better, but it is a professional format. The good thing is, you can always switch to HD or 4K :)
The issue with super 8 for most people is the cost. Cartridges have gotten insanely expensive, as has film in general. At the time of writing this comment, a new super 8 cartridge costs close to £50 and the cost for processing and digitizing is even more. For a few minutes footage, it's completely out of reach for most people.
I think nothing compares to the look of film, personally but I would never pay that with my income.
Maybe If I win the lottery
In the U.S., film + processing + basic digitizing is about $100-$120. Some say that using 16-mm is comparable in price. If I were shooting film I would probably look in this direction. I've been watching videos about using a Krasnogorsk camera along with old Soviet lenses. If anything, the quality is no worse than Super 8, and usually is significantly better.
nice!
sorry i don‘t unterstand english that good. With wich camera was the scene 5:19- 5:35 shot? I really like the quality and how the colours turned out!! Is it the Canon mini dv?
It is the Canon Elura100 MiniDV, it looks quite soft because I did not find the original files and re-used the shots that have been already recompressed. The darkened sky was achieved by using a graduated neutral density filter.
What would you recommend as a good mini DV cam corder for hobby use? Mainly recording when at festivals or holidays
I have a couple of my own favorites, but I would not necessarily recommend them outright. The Sony PDX10/TRV950 are iconic models with tons of controls. The Sony HC90/HC96 are late simplified models, but they have a larger sensor and can shoot in progressive mode. I like the Panasonic GS400/GS500 for the features, usability and for progressive mode. Canon has made several nice Optura models like Optura 50 and Optura 60. You need to figure out the features you need, like the focus ring, manual exposure control, microphone input, widescreen mode, progressive mode, etc, and then find one that matches your criteria the best. By the way, MiniDV tapes are out of production and out of stock in online stores, and the prices on eBay have soared, something to think about.
I used a canon zr850 and it is one of the best mini dv cameras.
@@foco5657 I just got one at a swap meet a few days ago but I need a charger for it lol
@@clutchless_pilot You can find one on ebay
@@foco5657 do you need to have an ac charger or a battery charger ?
and another question : can you recommend a camcorder, wich has the clean retro look (as showed in der beginning 0:28-0:37) but is easy to handle and for beginners? thanks a lot
This video has been shot with a Sony CCD V6000 Hi8 Pro shoulder-mount camcorder, see the full video here: ua-cam.com/video/noLN3a10zCY/v-deo.html I think most DV camcorders will be on par. I don't want to recommend a specific model, although I myself prefer ones that can shoot in progressive mode. If you choose one that shoots interlaced only, you will need to correctly deinterlace the video when uploading to UA-cam.
Hi I was thinking of using this camera to shoot a short film for the 80s aesthetics vibe. But then film festivals ask for high resolution screeners like in HD or 4K. Would you suggest using this camera? Also how can I up the resolution?
Which camera? I show two cameras, both are DV, and both are from the 2000s. For 1980s vibe you may want to use VHS for home video look. Pros used either 35-mm film (expensive) or 16-mm film (less expensive) or Betacam (more expensive TV reporting) or portable Umatic machines (cheap TV reporting). There was a short revival of Super 8 in mid 1980s. Cannot help you with festivals. If you want higher resolution why not shooting with a modern camera and then apply a filter to make it look old school. Just make sure you don't shake or pan fast to avoid rolling shutter artefacts.
@@ConsumerDV GS 500
I don't know... It is a nice camcorder, but will it give you the look you want? Broadcast TV at that time was interlaced 4:3. Consumer-grade video was VHS or 8-mm video, full of sparks, streaks, and with unstable geometry. Film was, well, film. The GS500 can shoot interlaced or progressive, can do 4:3 or 16:9. The frame is straight and steady, there are no streaks. If you get a PAL version you can shoot at 25p, and you can even slow it down to 24p to match film frame rate. I don't think it looks like 1980s video. It does not exactly look like film either. DV video with its rock steady frame and CCD sensor has its own aesthetics. CCDs appeared in mid-1980s. I have a goofy 40-second test video that I shot with an NTSC version at 30p: ua-cam.com/video/sOqlSo7atCU/v-deo.html Yeah, I have two GS500: NTSC an PAL versions.
Whats the name of the upscaler/HD tool used for the old footage at 00:28 ?
See @videotaperetro1126 channel, full video is here: ua-cam.com/video/noLN3a10zCY/v-deo.html He shows his script in a different video, see this one ua-cam.com/video/nHB_Q3qVTgs/v-deo.html and read the comments. The camcorder was a semi-pro PAL Hi8, the capture card was a professional expansion board, the processing was done with a VapourSynth script. This is the best quality of Hi8 footage I've seen on UA-cam.
What are your thoughts on the 3CCD DV cameras (ie. DVX100)?
Obviously, 3CCD is better than a single CCD. The DVX100 is a great camcorder, but its sensor has lower resolution than the consumer-grade GS500 (which is also 3CCD by the way), the sensor is 4:3 and has just enough pixels for a full 4:3 frame and not enough for widescreen. People did shoot widescreen with the DVX100, and it still looks decent when shot in progressive scan mode, for example, see Iraq In Fragments: ua-cam.com/video/NCf-rMTmFRM/v-deo.html By the the time the DVX100B was about to be released, people expected Panasonic to put a better sensor in it, but it did not happen. Everything else about the DVX is great: controls, settings, inputs and outputs. I was thinking about getting one, 3-5 years ago there were many DVX100B on eBay for less than $200 with just a couple of hundred hours on the heads. Now they went up in price, so I will not be getting one.
I have a panasonic mini dv, but my problem is the flip screen turns white/ glitch and I only see the cam lens when I close the flip screen... Is there any way to fix this?
Are these cameras good for shooting in low light?
Depends what you are comparing with and what do you mean by low light. There is no definite answer, but most consumer DV camcorders have sensors from 1/6 to 1/4 inch, which is small by today's standards. Modern photo/video hybrid cameras often have 1-inch or larger sensors, better sensor technology, better noise reduction. The single feature that DV camcorders excel in is global shutter, meaning no skewing and no jello when moving the camera around, because most if not all DV camcorders use CCD sensor technology.
When I insert my head cleaner tape into the camera, it tells me CHECK TAPE ERASE PROTECTION TAB. Also, It keeps saying 'CARD ERROR' although can't see what the problem could be. Any way I could fix this issues?
Sadly, cannot help you with diagnosing failures and repairs. Maybe ask @12voltvids.
I am pretty sure mini DV tape have write protection tab on the lower part of the tape (im a hi8 guy and the write protection tab is there, not sure about mini DV)
Also try to clean the contacts on the tape with cotton swab and alcohol which mini DV tapes have
how do you get the footage to look good? Whenever I transfer mines it looks very bad quality
Could you clarify what format do you shoot and what exactly comes out badly? If you shoot DV or HDV or Video8 or VHS, the single most important thing is correct deinterlacing to ensure you have all the 60 (or 50) images per second, and the video is free of combing or ghosting. Ensure that the aspect ratio is correct. Everything else is to one's liking: scaling, color correction, improving contrast, etc. Also make sure you have adequate bitrate, but nowadays this is usually not a problem.
@@ConsumerDV i’m shooting minidv, but after transferring it, when I watch it, it looks super fuzzy
@@ConsumerDV I forgot to mention I'm using the firewire to transfer, so I don't understand why where's loss
@@ConsumerDV oh, I've figured it out. The problem was that on my Windows XP computer I had selected "show video preview while capturing". That made the quality drop significantly.
Then, for processing, I used the program HandBrake to de-interlace and convert to a 59,94 fps 720p video. (because my unit is NTSC and yours is probably PAL) After that, all I need to do is render to 1080p on Sony Vegas.
I really appreciate your detailed response, and I understand why de-interlacing makes it looks less "fuzzy". :)
@@rupert6478 If you are editing in Vegas, it can deinterlace for you. It probably won't look as good as with using something like QTGMC, but it will be good enough and free of ghosting. Load your interlaced video and in the project setting specify the respective frame rate (29.97, interlace, whatever field first, make sure you have correct field order), and select deinterlacing method: "interpolate fields". Do not use "blend fields", it works well for static shots only. For a long time I wanted Vegas to allow different deinterlacing methods for different video tracks - this would allow to put static shots on a track with "blend", and action shots on a track with "interpolate". If you render into 29.97p, Vegas will drop every other field and convert remaining field into frame. If you render into 59.94, Vegas will convert each field into frame. It won't do deep frame analysis and motion compensation like QTGMC, but at least your video will have the motion preserved, and it will be free of ghosting and combing. You will also save one generation, because you won't have to use Handbrake.
What was used to film at 5:20
The ocean, the beach and the Jeep? I shot it with a Canon Elura 100. I used a graduated neutral density filter to make the sky darker.