@@dilwyn1 Microsoft has nothing to do with the development of HTTP status codes. The Hyper Text Transfer Protocols were developed by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN, generally considered to be the 'father of the Internet' as we know it.
What I am learning more and more is that the British Motorway is a series of poorly thought out, half complete projects that miraculously workefd out by accident.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not from the UK and dont live in the UK and I have no intresst in motorways and still I watch every episode you make. Thats some insane production skills and magnetic personality you got. Kepp it up and I'll watch every thing you make.
I love these videos. As someone that does drives and lives in the UK, I've often wondered if they would be of interest to anyone that doesn't. Thank you for answering that question, @Bullorg.
Loved your comment absolutely nothing has f……….. changed and “this must be the most boring motorway we’ve done to date” You still made it enjoyable with your creative writing, wit and delivery. Thanks John, enjoy your afternoon and thank you.
I notice it a lot, but I live nearby and use it as access to the M4. The rest of the A404 is good access to the M40, and is a good way to bypass that awful section of the M25 between the two.
Childhood memories of Sunday afternoon drives with my parents from West London on the M4 to where it then ended at the Maidenhead Thicket Roundabout (now junction 9b on the A404M). Here we had a picnic and drove back home. Happy days. 😀 Fast forward 50+ years and I now live 5 miles from that spot! The A404M is an odd motorway given that after junction 9 it becomes a dual carriageway which suffers a bottleneck roundabout junction at Bisham Abbey on its journey up to the often congested Handy Cross junction with the M40. If fully upgraded it could act as a better bypass of the M25 between the M4 and M40.
Urgh yeah. One day the powers that be will sort Bisham out. The last proposal a couple of years ago was to make it a traffic light junction instead of the roundabout. Absolutely stupid idea. 🤣 Either proper under or over pass with roundabout or leave it be.
Seems like the A404(M) has had a bit of an identity crisis: starting life as the A4(M), then getting promoted to M4 before being bypassed and demoted to being the A423(M) and then finally becoming the A404(M). To cap it all, it's junctions are 8/9, 9A and 9B!
The irony of it all is that the A404 could be much greater than what it is. Combined with the northern A404 section, it essentially makes a bypass of one of the busiest motorway sections in the UK, on the M25 between the M4 and M3. They really need to sort the road out - a grade separated free flowing junction at the southern terminus of the A404M in Holyport, grade seperate the Bisham roundabout on the A404, and then have a grade separated free flowing junction dropped 1 mile to the south of the Handy Cross M40 junction. The wonders it would do for congestion in the area
@Stealth360stealth The A404 runs between the M4 and M40 rather than the M3. A southern extension from Junction 8/9 bypassing Bracknell to link up with the M3 would be good though and allow the route to function as a full bypass of the busiest section of the M25.
This was the first bit of motorway I ever drove on, back in the days when 9b was a roundabout. Happy memories, glad to see that they've preserved it more or less as was in commemoration!
This little stretch of road has featured in my life for over 50 years as a route between home (Bracknell) and High Wycombe where the rest of my family lived. I cannot count how many hours I have sat in roadworks as the various construction works and repairs have got in the way of my journey over the years.
The original plan for the M4 was to take a route to the north of Reading, The route would have crossed the River Thames just north of the Goring Gap an ANOB. The route was actually surveyed, I lived right next to the proposed route and my home would have been on the motorway verge! or demolished. This route would have involved constructing a massive viaduct to cross the Thames and to make the descent from the Chilterns and climb onto the Berkshire Downs acceptable for a Motorway. Fortunately a number of the residents of Goring and Streatley are people with influence in the corridors of power so the route was scrapped even though it would have been significantly shorter and therefore cheaper to build. The same 'influencers' caused about a mile of the National Grid to be buried as it passed Streatley.😁
Definitely what I thought! All the people with money in the Reading area live in the north and those with less live in the south... you can see why the south got the motorway through their back gardens!
@@IndigoJo having lived in the Chilterns hills and also south of the M4, I can say that the point about the hills is null. The size of the hills where the proposed route would have been are pretty minimal. The main peaks of the Chiltern range are much further to the north, around Christmas Common and Aston Rowant nature reserve. With all this in mind, I don't think the 1960s motorway designers were particularly phased by hills. Take a look at the M40 Chiltern cutting in between Stokenchurch and Lewknor, 100m high cutting right through an AONB, they really didn't give a shit about hills
@@Stealth360stealth The Stokenchurch cutting was necessary to link London with Oxford by motorway. The Reading bypass could be built without going through hills (with the advantage of serving Wokingham and Bracknell) so it was. Roads can be built through mountains, but a bit of extra distance is often worth it to avoid them.
It actually wasn't the local council who changed all the road numberings and made the A423 disappear; it was the government, when the M40 was opened and the A423 was reduced to a stretch from Banbury to Coventry. It used to run from Maidenhead to Tamworth, via Oxford, Banbury and Coventry, but the M40 being extended north of Oxford meant there was no need for the A423 to be a trunk road south of Banbury anymore, and they did what should have been done when the M40 opened and detrunked and renumbered that stretch, as well as the bit between Oxford and Banbury. There wasn't really any need for the A423 between Banbury and Coventry really, as traffic between those places is directed via the M40 and A46, but for whatever reason they kept it.
Next time you're in Maidenhead, swing by Priors Way just off the A308, and you'll find the remains of the old M4 junction 8 sliproad, now being used as a depot. You can just about see it on satellite imagery.
It's been a pretty good week for me, what I got up to was my wife having a baby. I appreciate this one being a bit short and easy to fit into gaps around bringing the baby home. :)
Hi Jon. Thanks for your series. I’ve just done a trip from Surrey to Balmoral. Up the east coast of the UK and down the west side. I’ve therefore travelled in the last couple of weeks a fair few of the motorways that you covered. I found myself looking out for or just noticing some of the things you’ve pointed out and this made the journey more enjoyable. Cheers.
Thanks Jon. Not boring at all. And, a Lovely ending as I've often thought that it isn't "all you've got time for" but indeed, "all you've got for us for this week". Nice one.
The A423 was the main road linking Maidenhead and the A4 with Oxford, Banbury Coventry and the A5 just south of Tamworth. Meanwhile Marlow was is desparate need of a bypass, especially as the chain bridge over the Thames had recemtly had a 3T weight limit imposed on it. Therefore the A404 was rerouted onto a new build road linking M40, J4 to the junction of the A404 and A308 near Bisham. From this junction the exisiting A404 was upgraded to dual carriageway to it's junction with the A423. These works were intended as part of an M4/M40 link and were finished in 1974. As part of the plans to extend the M40 to Birmingham and the upgrading of the two lane stretch between M40 J4 & J5 to three lanes, a new section dual carriage way linking the end of the A404 DC section with the A423(M), thus creating the long desired M4/M40 link. This new road was numbered A404 and the A423 (M) was renumbered. This happened in 1990. The old section of A404 through Burchetts Green was declassified and the A423 between the A404 and Crowmarsh Gifford was renumbered as the A4130 and the rest of the route to Oxford became the A4074. This had the effect of releiving places like Henley and Nettlebed of alot of heavy traffic. There were further renumberings north of Oxford to concentrate heavy through traffic on the new M40 route. The oiginal A4(M) Maidenhead bypass had a junction with the A308, built to the same lethal design as J9A. The A308 junction was J8 and when the M4 was extended it was found that the necessary new junction was too close to J8. Therefore the existing J8 was closed and a new spur called the A308(M) was built, bisecting the original M4 route to connect with the A308. The new junction was numbered 8/9. The abandoned slip roads and their junction with the A308 were certainly visible up to the early 80's, however development aound Holyport has since obliterated any sign of them.
The A404(M) actually provides part of a a useful link between the M4 and M40. I sometimes use it fora bit of variety from the M25, or if traffic's bad.
I remember driving it regular when the M4 started at the A4 just before Maidenhead coming from Reading between 1969 until 1974. I also remember the extension to Reading which took forever to be completed and open around mid 70"s E
At last, a motorway close to my heart...and house. Interesting, never noticed the old run of the motorway, nor the bridge. Will have a good look next time I go past, as in tomorrow
Loving Danse Macabre closing music. I've had two large glasses of wine, I'm wankered, and I got lost when Jon kept mentioning motorway numbers with Ms on the end. But love the video as always.
Another of the Motorways I know very well - born in Reading lived there for 23 years. Often use the 404(M) to get from the M40 to the M4 when the M25 is at a standstill. The whole J8/9 is quite confusing and they've messed with it over the years. You touched on it in the M4 episode but this one made the history it really clear, thanks!!
The A423 didn't reach Birmingham. It ran to Tamworth ending head on with the A51 and passing through Oxford and Coventry. The A423 still exists in places south of Coventry such as part of Oxford Ring Road.
Remember it well. The original junctions 8 and 9 of the M4 becoming a rather stretched out junction 8/9 or spur road still initially referred to as the M4. Widening the A404 to a dual carriageway all the way meant that it also ended up at the same roundabout as the end of the M4 junctions 8/9 so I guess they must have planned from the outset to put in a bridge interchange so the A404 could just link straight through. And in so doing, the A404 magics into the A404M. The A404 still has at least one roundabout left in the middle of it although the junction with the M40 has been revamped in the last 10 years to provide a better interchange. (Not sure if they've widened the M40 or if its still just two lanes each direction as it passes through the junction.)
Oooh my local motorway 😂 Grew up in Marlow and have used it hundreds of times! Drove it as a learner when my instructor said it would be fine, as it would show me the hateful m4 junction ahead (we'd do loops of it end to en, m4 to m40). Wonder how fucked I'd have been if we were caught (2010s before it was legal to do so)! And yes the 9b junction is awful. I've been a passenger in a land-rover defender doing 55 off the motorway and we nearly tipped over 😂 Makes the lewknor/j6 m40 southbound junction seem gentle and swooping (although I can still do it at 50...) Another brilliant episode, thanks!
The motorway renumbered to the A404(M) when they bypassed the Burchett’s Green roundabout. Previously the A404 went straight across that and on through the village of Burchett’s Green, with the A423 coming down from Henley. They built the curve around and the slip roads and dual carriageway and connected up with the end of the motorway, downgraded the old A423 and A404 adding traffic calming through Burchett’s Green (which doesn’t work - still the quickest way to the westbound A4) and numbered it A404 and A404(M) all the way to the M4.
Fascinating. Negotiate that little roundabout often, never noticed the erroneous A423M sign, will be sure to notice it next time! BTW hope your drone flying was clear of the White Waltham aerodrome traffic zone! It was flying directly under the downwind leg for runway 29. Keep up the good work, your research is amazing, thanks.
I used to go through the M4/A404M junction regularly when I was visiting t'North from Camberley (not the fastest route but it avoided the M25 which felt worth it of a Friday night) and that roundabout is an absolute race track.
I grew up 5 mins walk from junction 9b, my dad and uncle raced dump trucks and excavators that they ‘borrowed’ during construction in the 60s 😅 I’ve also been around 70mph on the tight turn coming off the 404, heading towards m4, back before the speed limit 😮😂 And I remember in the 90s when 9b got constructed, Maidenhead Thicket got chopped in pieces to construct it 🙈🤣 Keep it up John, great work as always 👍👍
Its actually not a speed limit on the sliproad and nor has there ever been one - its purely just advisory. If you were to have a crash, I'm sure an insurer would use that against you, but otherwise under normal driving the police couldn't do anything
I’m going to try and find out where Jon is filming next so I can do an innocent walk pass, unfortunately I live in Ireland and until Jon travels over the Irish Sea I’m going to have to wait my turn although I’m disappointed no one passed by to say hello in this episode, great post again
I used to drive on this a fair bit, back in the bad old days of having to take the garbage journey from Manchester to Winnersh. And yes, it’s a dull and seemingly pointless bit of motorway with a huge roundabout onto the M4 which, for some reason, often had the M4 slips closed, requiring me to drive halfway back up it to 9A, then across through Earley into Winnersh that way. Those days are now gone. Thank heaven for small mercies!
The fact that it is a short motorway with no discernible features where f***-all of any interest has happened is, in itself, rather intriguing 🤔 Maybe this was actually why they changed the numbers to sort of ‘jazz up’ the road to create a narrative of supposed complexity?😉 Fascinating in a really rather ordinary way 👍🍀🍻
John its 12:36 on a Sunday afternoon, I can hear a song something about a lazy Sunday, it maybe just me🤔🤔🤔But I spotted your post, so my face cheeks ached a bit into a smile and left/clicked
How was this boring ? Loads of interesting detail about strange junction numbers, renumbering motorways, and even a road sign for a motorway that doesn't exist anymore !
I've lived around this area my entire life and never even noticed this until watching this video. To be honest, I kinda wish they had sent the M4 off to the north of Reading, they would have almost certainly created a link from the A329M to the M4, and we'd have finally got another f'ing bridge between Berkshire and Oxfordshire. Though to be honest, I doubt Caversham could take being the ingress point into Reading, there's no way you'd be fitting A33 or A3290 sized road through Caversham
I have a road atlas from 1967. The M4 is shown as dotted from Brentford until just west of Burnham where it becomes the Slough Motorway and has junctions with the A4 (old A302) then Bray (old A308) then up to the A4 following the current A404(M) route. Fun fact, 20 odd years ago I had a crash at the A404(M) and A4 roundabout when someone pulled out in front of me then stopped; as I had already reacted to pass behind him I was fooled by his stopping and so rammed him. He was barely damaged, my car had minor damage but was a write-off!
Erm... The numbering changes in this video made my brain melt a little bit... Otherwise an awesomely fine video! 😀 Thanks John, please keep it up. In the meantime I'll work on regrowing that lost molten grey matter in time for your next release.
I see Henley on Thames there. I think the term 'Not In My Backyard' springs to mind. Superb video, great drone footage for the likes of YumblTV and the Cities Skylines 2 games players to plan their Interchange designs in-game. Thumbs up as usual and building what you don't know is the Cities Skylines 2 motorway planners design ideas encyclopaedia.
At 3.28, you show the original end of the M4 at an unassuming roundabout in Maidenhead Thicket. The local council (I don't remember whether county council or town council or what -- I was rather young) was furious, since they had lobbied for it to end somewhere else, IIRC the centre of Maidenhead -- a case of be careful what you pray for, but like the early IBM prediction that the world would only need "about 4" digital computers, few in the UK then envisaged motorways becoming busy or needing more than 2 lanes each way! (For that reason, the 2-lane far end of the M4 in Wales was originally built without Armco separating the carriageways, since it would be far too expensive compared with the low predicted cost of occasional accidents, which IIRC included the value of lives lost at £5,000 each! ... Yes, we have had some inflation since then.) Anyway, the local council retaliated in a somewhat puerile fashion by refusing to erect any direction signs to the junction, which was a little hard to find; that standoff continued for a decade, until the M4 mainline was rerouted. Mind you, the people of Maidenhead can sometimes, to be polite, get the wrong end of the stick. There have been at least 2 occasions in the last 60 years when government plans to add VAT to newspapers were fought off by popular campaigns. During one of those, in the early 1980s IIRC, the local MP (IIRC, the seat was then Windsor and Maidenhead, since split) was driving in his car, with a rear window sticker for that campaign, saying "Don't Tax Reading!". He was recognised and accosted by an angry constituent: "We have to pay tax -- Why shouldn't they?" [For those who don't know the local geography, Maidenhead is in Berkshire (which in spite of the rhyming slang for the local Hunt, is properly pronounced Barksha) for which the county town is Reading (pronounced Redding). Meanwhile, the pronunciation of Maidenhead is unsullied, just like the virginal lady part.]
The M4 was originally designed to go north of Reading. The reason they changed their mind was they realised this meant putting it north of the Thames. Given that most of Reading is south of the Thames, access would have been more complicated - needing bridges etc. So the route was changed.
Reading is a dual town with Caversham both bordering the Thames. The additional two bridges over the Thames would have saved much of todays congestion had the northern route been adopted. The fact is that both a northern and southern route around Reading was called for given Readings rapid development and expansion as an IT hub.
I've seen old maps that suggest the junction numbers (9A & 9B) are the same as they were when the road was originally opened. They just retained those numbers when the M4 extension took a different route (although, as you said, 9B was reconstructed as a proper junction rather than just a terminus when the motorway was joined up with the A404). From the current M4, Holyport replaced both of them, plus the original J8 (for the A308) - hence its being numbered 8/9. I presume that just numbering Holyport as 8, and moving 9 to what's now J10, was deemed confusing to motorists who were already familiar with the original numbering.
I would argue the point about the junction 9a slip roads being short as partially incorrect. If you look at them on google maps and having driven on them multiple times, I would wager they're some of the longest non-major motorway slip roads in the whole network. The amount of over-engineering into them is beautiful. They easily allow drivers joining the motorway about half a mile of slip-road to merge over. It really helps vehicles merge onto the motorway at rush hour. Have seen few examples which could rival it on a similar junction layout
Maybe the reason is due to it being the junction of 3 motorways. So not to make the A404M or A308M feel cheated they are either 8 and 9. Now the answer is which one is 8 and 9. 🤣
It could have been more exciting. The original route bulldozed its way through a bunch of housing estates on the north side of Reading and called for a bloody great viaduct over the Thames!
If you're in the area, would be ace if you could get some drone footage of the "work" being done on the A3 / M25 junction they're building over the next couple of years.
I live about 1 minute away from the A404M. In fact, I regularly cross that first footbridge and (try to) run through that underpass. You should've popped in for a cuppa. While the M4 "smart motorway" work was underway, the A404M was an absolute nightmare, because the M4 between the M25 and Slough was often closed. Therefore, people flooded to the M40 via the A404 and A404M.
There's one of those sharp turns just after the slip road near Dumbarton, coming off at Renton for Alexandria. I know because I went straight instead of round the bend. Had to be towed out 😂
I went to a school (Desborough) not far from junction 9A, so travelled via that slip road most days. If I had a pound for every time I saw a crashed car abandoned at the junction, I'd be very rich right now. I'd have gone past the A423(M) sign as well but never spotted the old numbering, will be sure to notice it next time I'm there!
John I love your approach. Have you thought of car reviews? 'You may say that every man and his dog are doing them, and you'd be right. Except you wouldn't as they are not all necessarily doing them well...'
404: Motorway Not Found?
LOL! Bloody Micro Soft
lmaooooo
Congratulations on your Comment of the Day award.
@@dilwyn1 Microsoft has nothing to do with the development of HTTP status codes. The Hyper Text Transfer Protocols were developed by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN, generally considered to be the 'father of the Internet' as we know it.
@@ChakatSandwalkerfather of the WWW. The Internet is much older.
What I am learning more and more is that the British Motorway is a series of poorly thought out, half complete projects that miraculously workefd out by accident.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not from the UK and dont live in the UK and I have no intresst in motorways and still I watch every episode you make. Thats some insane production skills and magnetic personality you got. Kepp it up and I'll watch every thing you make.
IKR WTF do I watch these?
While I do live in the UK, I had no interest in roads until I watched his videos
I don't even drive, but I never miss an episode.🤔
I love these videos. As someone that does drives and lives in the UK, I've often wondered if they would be of interest to anyone that doesn't. Thank you for answering that question, @Bullorg.
Nice one, thanks for watching!
Loved your comment absolutely nothing has f……….. changed
and “this must be the most boring motorway we’ve done to date”
You still made it enjoyable with your creative writing, wit and delivery. Thanks John, enjoy your afternoon and thank you.
Wait till he does the A308(M)
@@raystimpson I was just thinking that. He could have tacked on to the end of this one.
@@raystimpsonAlready done it.
@@raystimpson No, a separate one: Motoring Oddities Ep 7 ua-cam.com/video/YrsbWH8-pd0/v-deo.htmlsi=fmdfydy2OJCUBr0H
@@raystimpson in a different series, motoring oddities ua-cam.com/video/YrsbWH8-pd0/v-deo.htmlsi=5VG3M5VuOICCw-hk
Happened to pass underneath you as you filmed the latter part of this one. Well, there was a guy talking at his camera on a tripod, wearing a beanie 😂
Oh dear I'm waving back at the end again.
Thank you John. Your videos always brighten up my day……..even when they’re “boring” motorways that no one even notices.
I notice it a lot, but I live nearby and use it as access to the M4.
The rest of the A404 is good access to the M40, and is a good way to bypass that awful section of the M25 between the two.
Already said that before you. Hence why I have driven the A404M@@Skorpychan 😀
I like roads that are adequate!
2:57 lovely house with a pool in the back garden.... but imagine the noise from the motorway!
"...all you can see is trees" and "..f**k-all has changed" _ sounds like a win-win to me. 😉
Another gem - thanks Jon.
Sterling work……..again! If I was in charge of commissioning new tv programs, I would give you a prime time one hour slot 👍
Love the choice of music - Johnathon Creek for you standing next to a creek just fits.
That abandoned motorway alignment is great - never knew that existed. Very interesting.
Childhood memories of Sunday afternoon drives with my parents from West London on the M4 to where it then ended at the Maidenhead Thicket Roundabout (now junction 9b on the A404M). Here we had a picnic and drove back home. Happy days. 😀
Fast forward 50+ years and I now live 5 miles from that spot!
The A404M is an odd motorway given that after junction 9 it becomes a dual carriageway which suffers a bottleneck roundabout junction at Bisham Abbey on its journey up to the often congested Handy Cross junction with the M40. If fully upgraded it could act as a better bypass of the M25 between the M4 and M40.
Urgh yeah. One day the powers that be will sort Bisham out. The last proposal a couple of years ago was to make it a traffic light junction instead of the roundabout. Absolutely stupid idea. 🤣 Either proper under or over pass with roundabout or leave it be.
The hours I've spent queueing at that roundabout! Both ways!
@@timmarotto It’s depressing whether at the start or end of a long journey, that roundabout can ruin your day.
4:06 onward to 4:18 is pure magic, John. You are brilliant. Thank you
Seems like the A404(M) has had a bit of an identity crisis: starting life as the A4(M), then getting promoted to M4 before being bypassed and demoted to being the A423(M) and then finally becoming the A404(M). To cap it all, it's junctions are 8/9, 9A and 9B!
Well, we all know what 404 means, so in this case it means: "404, no Motorway found" :D
The irony of it all is that the A404 could be much greater than what it is. Combined with the northern A404 section, it essentially makes a bypass of one of the busiest motorway sections in the UK, on the M25 between the M4 and M3. They really need to sort the road out - a grade separated free flowing junction at the southern terminus of the A404M in Holyport, grade seperate the Bisham roundabout on the A404, and then have a grade separated free flowing junction dropped 1 mile to the south of the Handy Cross M40 junction. The wonders it would do for congestion in the area
@Stealth360stealth The A404 runs between the M4 and M40 rather than the M3. A southern extension from Junction 8/9 bypassing Bracknell to link up with the M3 would be good though and allow the route to function as a full bypass of the busiest section of the M25.
@@Stealth360stealth Make A404 great again!
This was the first bit of motorway I ever drove on, back in the days when 9b was a roundabout. Happy memories, glad to see that they've preserved it more or less as was in commemoration!
This little stretch of road has featured in my life for over 50 years as a route between home (Bracknell) and High Wycombe where the rest of my family lived. I cannot count how many hours I have sat in roadworks as the various construction works and repairs have got in the way of my journey over the years.
The original plan for the M4 was to take a route to the north of Reading, The route would have crossed the River Thames just north of the Goring Gap an ANOB. The route was actually surveyed, I lived right next to the proposed route and my home would have been on the motorway verge! or demolished. This route would have involved constructing a massive viaduct to cross the Thames and to make the descent from the Chilterns and climb onto the Berkshire Downs acceptable for a Motorway. Fortunately a number of the residents of Goring and Streatley are people with influence in the corridors of power so the route was scrapped even though it would have been significantly shorter and therefore cheaper to build. The same 'influencers' caused about a mile of the National Grid to be buried as it passed Streatley.😁
Definitely what I thought! All the people with money in the Reading area live in the north and those with less live in the south... you can see why the south got the motorway through their back gardens!
I don't suppose a road that cuts through hills would actually have been cheaper than a road along flat terrain that was a little bit longer.
@@oliversharpe8235 except most of those houses were not there then
@@IndigoJo having lived in the Chilterns hills and also south of the M4, I can say that the point about the hills is null. The size of the hills where the proposed route would have been are pretty minimal. The main peaks of the Chiltern range are much further to the north, around Christmas Common and Aston Rowant nature reserve. With all this in mind, I don't think the 1960s motorway designers were particularly phased by hills. Take a look at the M40 Chiltern cutting in between Stokenchurch and Lewknor, 100m high cutting right through an AONB, they really didn't give a shit about hills
@@Stealth360stealth The Stokenchurch cutting was necessary to link London with Oxford by motorway. The Reading bypass could be built without going through hills (with the advantage of serving Wokingham and Bracknell) so it was. Roads can be built through mountains, but a bit of extra distance is often worth it to avoid them.
These videos never fail to bring me back every sunday
It actually wasn't the local council who changed all the road numberings and made the A423 disappear; it was the government, when the M40 was opened and the A423 was reduced to a stretch from Banbury to Coventry. It used to run from Maidenhead to Tamworth, via Oxford, Banbury and Coventry, but the M40 being extended north of Oxford meant there was no need for the A423 to be a trunk road south of Banbury anymore, and they did what should have been done when the M40 opened and detrunked and renumbered that stretch, as well as the bit between Oxford and Banbury. There wasn't really any need for the A423 between Banbury and Coventry really, as traffic between those places is directed via the M40 and A46, but for whatever reason they kept it.
Next time you're in Maidenhead, swing by Priors Way just off the A308, and you'll find the remains of the old M4 junction 8 sliproad, now being used as a depot. You can just about see it on satellite imagery.
I love a tight radius slip rd on or off, excellent for the motorcycle knee down action but watch out for that spilled diesel 🏍️👍😁😵💫
Junction 9A also has the quirk of having its slip roads start and end at mini roundabouts: pretty unusual for motorways.
It's been a pretty good week for me, what I got up to was my wife having a baby. I appreciate this one being a bit short and easy to fit into gaps around bringing the baby home. :)
Hard to beat becoming a parent in the same week a Secrets of the Motorway video is released. Congrats
Congrats on the new arrival!
RIP UA-cam viewing and sleep. But congrats!
Hi John, would love to see a "Secrets of the Autobahn" series from you. Plenty of history out in that there Deutschland to explore! Love it! 😮
At some point the boys are going to run out of UK motorways to talk about so not a bad idea.
I hope to get over there at some point.
Hi Jon. Thanks for your series. I’ve just done a trip from Surrey to Balmoral. Up the east coast of the UK and down the west side. I’ve therefore travelled in the last couple of weeks a fair few of the motorways that you covered. I found myself looking out for or just noticing some of the things you’ve pointed out and this made the journey more enjoyable. Cheers.
This reminds me of Abbott & Costello's "Who's on 1st".
Ah yes. A masterpiece.
1:47 That old A423(M) sign has a missing bracket, but space for it. I guess the person making the sign decided (A423(M)) was too confusing to look at?
Oh god, I spotted it straight away too. The bracket nesting is - absent. Makes me squirm, I’d hate to see it every day!
Thanks Jon. Not boring at all. And, a Lovely ending as I've often thought that it isn't "all you've got time for" but indeed, "all you've got for us for this week". Nice one.
Nice one, thanks for watching!
Love the Johnathan Creek 'Danse Macabre' theme at the end, there!
Are you still going to do the M25 someday, or has that been canned now?
I wondered if there was a perplexing locked room murder mystery solved right where he was standing
it was Jon at the creek. nailed it!@@bornach
@@fumthings Groan... :) I also thought there should be a windmill somewhere in shot.
The A423 was the main road linking Maidenhead and the A4 with Oxford, Banbury Coventry and the A5 just south of Tamworth. Meanwhile Marlow was is desparate need of a bypass, especially as the chain bridge over the Thames had recemtly had a 3T weight limit imposed on it. Therefore the A404 was rerouted onto a new build road linking M40, J4 to the junction of the A404 and A308 near Bisham. From this junction the exisiting A404 was upgraded to dual carriageway to it's junction with the A423. These works were intended as part of an M4/M40 link and were finished in 1974. As part of the plans to extend the M40 to Birmingham and the upgrading of the two lane stretch between M40 J4 & J5 to three lanes, a new section dual carriage way linking the end of the A404 DC section with the A423(M), thus creating the long desired M4/M40 link. This new road was numbered A404 and the A423 (M) was renumbered. This happened in 1990. The old section of A404 through Burchetts Green was declassified and the A423 between the A404 and Crowmarsh Gifford was renumbered as the A4130 and the rest of the route to Oxford became the A4074. This had the effect of releiving places like Henley and Nettlebed of alot of heavy traffic. There were further renumberings north of Oxford to concentrate heavy through traffic on the new M40 route.
The oiginal A4(M) Maidenhead bypass had a junction with the A308, built to the same lethal design as J9A. The A308 junction was J8 and when the M4 was extended it was found that the necessary new junction was too close to J8. Therefore the existing J8 was closed and a new spur called the A308(M) was built, bisecting the original M4 route to connect with the A308. The new junction was numbered 8/9.
The abandoned slip roads and their junction with the A308 were certainly visible up to the early 80's, however development aound Holyport has since obliterated any sign of them.
The A404(M) actually provides part of a a useful link between the M4 and M40. I sometimes use it fora bit of variety from the M25, or if traffic's bad.
Excellent. Hilarious as usual. WSA
I remember driving it regular when the M4 started at the A4 just before Maidenhead coming from Reading between 1969 until 1974.
I also remember the extension to Reading which took forever to be completed and open around mid 70"s
E
Brilliant content. Interesting and funny. Keep em coming. Thank you😊
At last, a motorway close to my heart...and house. Interesting, never noticed the old run of the motorway, nor the bridge. Will have a good look next time I go past, as in tomorrow
Loving Danse Macabre closing music. I've had two large glasses of wine, I'm wankered, and I got lost when Jon kept mentioning motorway numbers with Ms on the end. But love the video as always.
It may be boring to drive but once you delve into the history, as so often happens, it becomes interesting. That could sum up this channel actually.
At 1:50, check out the missing ) on the sign too. Quite common with routes to Axxx(M) roads.
Another of the Motorways I know very well - born in Reading lived there for 23 years. Often use the 404(M) to get from the M40 to the M4 when the M25 is at a standstill. The whole J8/9 is quite confusing and they've messed with it over the years. You touched on it in the M4 episode but this one made the history it really clear, thanks!!
The change of number from A423 (M) also links to the completion of the M40 to Birmingham which saw the A423 renumbered from there as the A4130.
The A423 didn't reach Birmingham. It ran to Tamworth ending head on with the A51 and passing through Oxford and Coventry. The A423 still exists in places south of Coventry such as part of Oxford Ring Road.
At 1:51 the unbalanced parentheses on the sign bother me!
Remember it well. The original junctions 8 and 9 of the M4 becoming a rather stretched out junction 8/9 or spur road still initially referred to as the M4. Widening the A404 to a dual carriageway all the way meant that it also ended up at the same roundabout as the end of the M4 junctions 8/9 so I guess they must have planned from the outset to put in a bridge interchange so the A404 could just link straight through. And in so doing, the A404 magics into the A404M. The A404 still has at least one roundabout left in the middle of it although the junction with the M40 has been revamped in the last 10 years to provide a better interchange. (Not sure if they've widened the M40 or if its still just two lanes each direction as it passes through the junction.)
A404(M): motorway not found
Error A404M: M4 not found
Jonathan Creek for today's music, nice choice. I have been meaning to go back to that for years
it was Jon at the creek. nailed it!
Does anyone else go straight to google maps as soon as the video is finished? Great content as always
No, Google maps is awful. I find OpenStreetMap much better
Oooh my local motorway 😂 Grew up in Marlow and have used it hundreds of times! Drove it as a learner when my instructor said it would be fine, as it would show me the hateful m4 junction ahead (we'd do loops of it end to en, m4 to m40). Wonder how fucked I'd have been if we were caught (2010s before it was legal to do so)! And yes the 9b junction is awful. I've been a passenger in a land-rover defender doing 55 off the motorway and we nearly tipped over 😂 Makes the lewknor/j6 m40 southbound junction seem gentle and swooping (although I can still do it at 50...) Another brilliant episode, thanks!
I heard that opening "Hellloooo and..." and briefly thought I was watching Tim Traveller!
Wonderful, as ever, with superb out-ro music.
The motorway renumbered to the A404(M) when they bypassed the Burchett’s Green roundabout. Previously the A404 went straight across that and on through the village of Burchett’s Green, with the A423 coming down from Henley. They built the curve around and the slip roads and dual carriageway and connected up with the end of the motorway, downgraded the old A423 and A404 adding traffic calming through Burchett’s Green (which doesn’t work - still the quickest way to the westbound A4) and numbered it A404 and A404(M) all the way to the M4.
Yay! My local motorway! For the first time ever, I recognise every one of the locations. 😃
Nice one, thanks for watching!
Well...that maybe "all you've got" but it was splendid thank you.
Fascinating. Negotiate that little roundabout often, never noticed the erroneous A423M sign, will be sure to notice it next time! BTW hope your drone flying was clear of the White Waltham aerodrome traffic zone! It was flying directly under the downwind leg for runway 29. Keep up the good work, your research is amazing, thanks.
I used to go through the M4/A404M junction regularly when I was visiting t'North from Camberley (not the fastest route but it avoided the M25 which felt worth it of a Friday night) and that roundabout is an absolute race track.
The Danse Macabre... interesting end... it is wickedsweetawesome in equal measure. Cheered me up... even if fvckall happened!
it was Jon at the creek. nailed it!
I grew up 5 mins walk from junction 9b, my dad and uncle raced dump trucks and excavators that they ‘borrowed’ during construction in the 60s 😅
I’ve also been around 70mph on the tight turn coming off the 404, heading towards m4, back before the speed limit 😮😂
And I remember in the 90s when 9b got constructed, Maidenhead Thicket got chopped in pieces to construct it 🙈🤣
Keep it up John, great work as always 👍👍
Its actually not a speed limit on the sliproad and nor has there ever been one - its purely just advisory. If you were to have a crash, I'm sure an insurer would use that against you, but otherwise under normal driving the police couldn't do anything
I’m going to try and find out where Jon is filming next so I can do an innocent walk pass, unfortunately I live in Ireland and until Jon travels over the Irish Sea I’m going to have to wait my turn although I’m disappointed no one passed by to say hello in this episode, great post again
Some many abandoned motorways??!.... You're going to have to produce a Geoff Marshall style abandoned bingo card.
Allotments?
Car parks?
I used to drive on this a fair bit, back in the bad old days of having to take the garbage journey from Manchester to Winnersh. And yes, it’s a dull and seemingly pointless bit of motorway with a huge roundabout onto the M4 which, for some reason, often had the M4 slips closed, requiring me to drive halfway back up it to 9A, then across through Earley into Winnersh that way.
Those days are now gone. Thank heaven for small mercies!
The fact that it is a short motorway with no discernible features where f***-all of any interest has happened is, in itself, rather intriguing 🤔 Maybe this was actually why they changed the numbers to sort of ‘jazz up’ the road to create a narrative of supposed complexity?😉
Fascinating in a really rather ordinary way 👍🍀🍻
Short and sweet. All the best 🇬🇧.
Nice one, thanks for watching!
Brook? That's "The Cut" which also flows past my house further upstream. :)
No idea how you make this seamless edits, skill and passion
John its 12:36 on a Sunday afternoon, I can hear a song something about a lazy Sunday, it maybe just me🤔🤔🤔But I spotted your post, so my face cheeks ached a bit into a smile and left/clicked
Some great photography / editing on this one!
Nice one, thanks for watching!
Thank you for that history leason, I didn't know most of that even though I live quite close to it!
Nice one, thanks for watching!
How was this boring ? Loads of interesting detail about strange junction numbers, renumbering motorways, and even a road sign for a motorway that doesn't exist anymore !
Indeed! Most interesting I thought. Well, not *the* most interesting, but *a* most interesting...
I've lived around this area my entire life and never even noticed this until watching this video. To be honest, I kinda wish they had sent the M4 off to the north of Reading, they would have almost certainly created a link from the A329M to the M4, and we'd have finally got another f'ing bridge between Berkshire and Oxfordshire.
Though to be honest, I doubt Caversham could take being the ingress point into Reading, there's no way you'd be fitting A33 or A3290 sized road through Caversham
4:40 ah Danse Macabre by Camille Saint-Saën (also know as the theme tune to the british murder mystery series 'Jonathan Creek')
I have a road atlas from 1967. The M4 is shown as dotted from Brentford until just west of Burnham where it becomes the Slough Motorway and has junctions with the A4 (old A302) then Bray (old A308) then up to the A4 following the current A404(M) route. Fun fact, 20 odd years ago I had a crash at the A404(M) and A4 roundabout when someone pulled out in front of me then stopped; as I had already reacted to pass behind him I was fooled by his stopping and so rammed him. He was barely damaged, my car had minor damage but was a write-off!
Erm... The numbering changes in this video made my brain melt a little bit... Otherwise an awesomely fine video! 😀 Thanks John, please keep it up. In the meantime I'll work on regrowing that lost molten grey matter in time for your next release.
Another enjoyable Sunday morning look at the UK countryside.
Me watch you long time.
Danse Macabre from Jonathan Creek! One of the best themes...
Only one way to describe junction 9a - Dangerous - 😂 couldn’t agree more!
Thanks
Nice one, thanks a lot mate
You made a boring motorway... interesting! Great job, Jon!
Anyone wondering, music is in Jonathan Creek. Classic series
it was Jon at the creek. nailed it!
Brilliantly done.
"That not many people know about."
Oh wow, I didn't know about that!
I'm from the UK and I drive BUT... with this video I am no wiser!! Hahaha... BUT, I luv 'em!!
I see Henley on Thames there. I think the term 'Not In My Backyard' springs to mind. Superb video, great drone footage for the likes of YumblTV and the Cities Skylines 2 games players to plan their Interchange designs in-game. Thumbs up as usual and building what you don't know is the Cities Skylines 2 motorway planners design ideas encyclopaedia.
The highlight of my Sunday
Touch of "Not a lot of people know that", invoking the 'Caine' can be dangerous and difficult to stop. Cheers
At 3.28, you show the original end of the M4 at an unassuming roundabout in Maidenhead Thicket. The local council (I don't remember whether county council or town council or what -- I was rather young) was furious, since they had lobbied for it to end somewhere else, IIRC the centre of Maidenhead -- a case of be careful what you pray for, but like the early IBM prediction that the world would only need "about 4" digital computers, few in the UK then envisaged motorways becoming busy or needing more than 2 lanes each way! (For that reason, the 2-lane far end of the M4 in Wales was originally built without Armco separating the carriageways, since it would be far too expensive compared with the low predicted cost of occasional accidents, which IIRC included the value of lives lost at £5,000 each! ... Yes, we have had some inflation since then.)
Anyway, the local council retaliated in a somewhat puerile fashion by refusing to erect any direction signs to the junction, which was a little hard to find; that standoff continued for a decade, until the M4 mainline was rerouted. Mind you, the people of Maidenhead can sometimes, to be polite, get the wrong end of the stick. There have been at least 2 occasions in the last 60 years when government plans to add VAT to newspapers were fought off by popular campaigns. During one of those, in the early 1980s IIRC, the local MP (IIRC, the seat was then Windsor and Maidenhead, since split) was driving in his car, with a rear window sticker for that campaign, saying "Don't Tax Reading!". He was recognised and accosted by an angry constituent: "We have to pay tax -- Why shouldn't they?" [For those who don't know the local geography, Maidenhead is in Berkshire (which in spite of the rhyming slang for the local Hunt, is properly pronounced Barksha) for which the county town is Reading (pronounced Redding). Meanwhile, the pronunciation of Maidenhead is unsullied, just like the virginal lady part.]
The M4 was originally designed to go north of Reading. The reason they changed their mind was they realised this meant putting it north of the Thames. Given that most of Reading is south of the Thames, access would have been more complicated - needing bridges etc.
So the route was changed.
Reading is a dual town with Caversham both bordering the Thames. The additional two bridges over the Thames would have saved much of todays congestion had the northern route been adopted. The fact is that both a northern and southern route around Reading was called for given Readings rapid development and expansion as an IT hub.
I've seen old maps that suggest the junction numbers (9A & 9B) are the same as they were when the road was originally opened. They just retained those numbers when the M4 extension took a different route (although, as you said, 9B was reconstructed as a proper junction rather than just a terminus when the motorway was joined up with the A404).
From the current M4, Holyport replaced both of them, plus the original J8 (for the A308) - hence its being numbered 8/9. I presume that just numbering Holyport as 8, and moving 9 to what's now J10, was deemed confusing to motorists who were already familiar with the original numbering.
02:21 YaY, Our A308 (M), Shortest motorway in England.
Some on make the one in scotland longer.
I would argue the point about the junction 9a slip roads being short as partially incorrect. If you look at them on google maps and having driven on them multiple times, I would wager they're some of the longest non-major motorway slip roads in the whole network. The amount of over-engineering into them is beautiful. They easily allow drivers joining the motorway about half a mile of slip-road to merge over. It really helps vehicles merge onto the motorway at rush hour. Have seen few examples which could rival it on a similar junction layout
Can't wait on the A308(M) which is right next door and really small.
Maybe this video could have been a double header 🙂
Already made!
And the mystery of junction 8/9.
Hopefully he'll explain why it's junction 8/9 when he does. (Don't ask)
Maybe the reason is due to it being the junction of 3 motorways. So not to make the A404M or A308M feel cheated they are either 8 and 9. Now the answer is which one is 8 and 9. 🤣
It could have been more exciting. The original route bulldozed its way through a bunch of housing estates on the north side of Reading and called for a bloody great viaduct over the Thames!
If you're in the area, would be ace if you could get some drone footage of the "work" being done on the A3 / M25 junction they're building over the next couple of years.
I live about 1 minute away from the A404M. In fact, I regularly cross that first footbridge and (try to) run through that underpass. You should've popped in for a cuppa.
While the M4 "smart motorway" work was underway, the A404M was an absolute nightmare, because the M4 between the M25 and Slough was often closed. Therefore, people flooded to the M40 via the A404 and A404M.
Former SABRE member here.
All the information that SABRE have suggest that it was never A4(M) on signs, only on maps.
Yes, I seem to recall that it was initially proposed and planned as the A4(M), but by the time it was opened it had been reclassified as the M4.
A404 erm where is it going, why are we here. Thanks for another fascinating video about how utterly confusing urban planning can be 👍
There's one of those sharp turns just after the slip road near Dumbarton, coming off at Renton for Alexandria. I know because I went straight instead of round the bend. Had to be towed out 😂
Great video John ,👍Thanks mate
I went to a school (Desborough) not far from junction 9A, so travelled via that slip road most days. If I had a pound for every time I saw a crashed car abandoned at the junction, I'd be very rich right now. I'd have gone past the A423(M) sign as well but never spotted the old numbering, will be sure to notice it next time I'm there!
Awesome Video
Another great episode, Sunday is complete, thanks.
Another informative and educational video mate.
John I love your approach. Have you thought of car reviews?
'You may say that every man and his dog are doing them, and you'd be right. Except you wouldn't as they are not all necessarily doing them well...'
I've thought about it very much. It's not really viable, I've no idea how car channels manage to succeed these days.