The fact is (I believe) that all of this "outside" thinking and playing now, contemporarily, just sounds +jazzy+ and +cool+, and no longer contains the feeling of an expanded vocabulary, or sonic use of the instrument
The fact is (I believe) that all of this "outside" thinking and playing now, contemporarily, just sounds +jazzy+ and +cool+, and no longer contains the feeling of an expanded vocabulary, or sonic use of the instrument
I agree and think it has to do with the “packaging”. Even the way a video like this is presented (and presented well I will say!) As an educator it’s a hard challenge to talk about this kind of playing without giving students 100s of years of tonal/harmonic context. It usually ends up being more lick or device based (which IS part of the tradition) but in my experience students don’t really “hear” the harmony. Maybe after plugging it in enough time they will, but I try and approach it from an expanded harmonic context and more exploration of the colors/timbres of the instrument (there’s a reason saxophonists play fast things with altered/OT fingerings haha, it sounds cool!) and lots of ear training around tension and release.
Love that you are challenging the concept. I am trying to find my way in this too. Reharmonizing changes, playing super imposed changes like Coltrane changes or others over the coming chords. The discussion is amazing. All lines can be interpreted in many different ways and the more you look the more ways you find. I think the essence is to find out how you want to sound and how you want to express yourself. There is no right or wrong in the game of music, but you need to mean it
Thank you so much. I just answered in another post, but I love the discussion. What to call what and how to approach this. The harmonic structures or just sounds leading towards each other
What’s your source for Joe starting sidestepping exactly? I’m very interested in jazz history and harmony and I love Joe’s playing, but Tristano was playing sidestepping chromatic harmony at least a decade before Joe (recorded history at least). I wouldn’t say that Tristano was the first to do it either though, but it was implemented into his style fairly consistently by the early 1950s
Modal, Tonal, Quartertone jazz with facility and phrasing can never replace what's in the heart and soul of a great musician. If you don't have an ear and special qualities that make the genius then you're probably just another academic hack that will never attain the magic that very few have...the movement of Jazz the art form is too elusive for most musicians at the top level and so most musicians can only dream of becoming a master.
Not sure who you are talking to. I'm trying my best to motivate people to learn more about music and the background and terminology behind this music style. Not really sure what you are doing except talk people down enjoying learning about music. I do not think that what you are saying is true. 90% of musicianship comes from hard work everyday. Don't live in the clouds, go practice instead.
Coltrane and Brecker never played outside. They just explored the inside believing the walls were further away than most knew.
Playing outside just means what it means. It is not a matter of considering it to be nice, wrong, good or bad
Incredibly well said !
So true so true. What a great way to see it. And when you practice the boundaries it all just becomes your sound. Amazing
True true true
Heard
This was great - real, usable ideas demonstrated and explained well. Makes me actually want to practice, haha.
The fact is (I believe) that all of this "outside" thinking and playing now, contemporarily, just sounds +jazzy+ and +cool+, and no longer contains the feeling of an expanded vocabulary, or sonic use of the instrument
I really dig that it is motivating. Thank you
Thank you so much
You're most welcome 😁😁
Great Video , makes me wanna practice and checking out the ideas ! Thanks 😎
Definitely all seriously motivational ideas.👍
This is so good, I'm very happy about it. :)
Thank you so much. I'll try to keep posting
Man, this is some seriously effective shxx...thank you!🎶🎶🎷
So happy you like it. Please ask questions if you have any
Such a helpful ideo. Many thanks! Each of those techniques is worthy of a separate video in the future?!
Thank you for your positive comment. What a great idea. I will def do that
Great video! I will have fun with this for many weeks 👍
I am so happy that this totally works for you. Let me know if you encounter any questions along the way
Thanks for that 🙏🏼
Thank you so much
Gooood contents!!!!
Thank you so much for this.
The fact is (I believe) that all of this "outside" thinking and playing now, contemporarily, just sounds +jazzy+ and +cool+, and no longer contains the feeling of an expanded vocabulary, or sonic use of the instrument
I agree and think it has to do with the “packaging”. Even the way a video like this is presented (and presented well I will say!) As an educator it’s a hard challenge to talk about this kind of playing without giving students 100s of years of tonal/harmonic context. It usually ends up being more lick or device based (which IS part of the tradition) but in my experience students don’t really “hear” the harmony. Maybe after plugging it in enough time they will, but I try and approach it from an expanded harmonic context and more exploration of the colors/timbres of the instrument (there’s a reason saxophonists play fast things with altered/OT fingerings haha, it sounds cool!) and lots of ear training around tension and release.
Love that you are challenging the concept. I am trying to find my way in this too. Reharmonizing changes, playing super imposed changes like Coltrane changes or others over the coming chords. The discussion is amazing. All lines can be interpreted in many different ways and the more you look the more ways you find.
I think the essence is to find out how you want to sound and how you want to express yourself. There is no right or wrong in the game of music, but you need to mean it
Thank you so much. I just answered in another post, but I love the discussion. What to call what and how to approach this. The harmonic structures or just sounds leading towards each other
You’re a total badass!
Thank you so much, I really hope you can use the material.
Questions are welcome
Thanks
You are amazing, thank you so much, this really helps me give more to all of you.
Joe Henderson started the side stepping. Brecker was studying John Coltrane & Joe Henderson's approach to find his great voice and style.
Yes of course. Thanks man. Joe is amazing and really one of my heroes I need to check out more.
What’s your source for Joe starting sidestepping exactly? I’m very interested in jazz history and harmony and I love Joe’s playing, but Tristano was playing sidestepping chromatic harmony at least a decade before Joe (recorded history at least). I wouldn’t say that Tristano was the first to do it either though, but it was implemented into his style fairly consistently by the early 1950s
why is everything a whole step down from the chord chart shown in the video ?
he's playing in Bb bc tenor is a Bb instrument
What he said :)
Modal, Tonal, Quartertone jazz with facility and phrasing can never replace what's in the heart and soul of a great musician. If you don't have an ear and special qualities that make the genius then you're probably just another academic hack that will never attain the magic that very few have...the movement of Jazz the art form is too elusive for most musicians at the top level and so most musicians can only dream of becoming a master.
Not sure who you are talking to. I'm trying my best to motivate people to learn more about music and the background and terminology behind this music style.
Not really sure what you are doing except talk people down enjoying learning about music.
I do not think that what you are saying is true. 90% of musicianship comes from hard work everyday.
Don't live in the clouds, go practice instead.
It's good but it's making my head spin I play Guitar Man
Baby steps, take it tone by tone. And please ask questions if you have any