Thom in the books is a flamboyant, extravagent, and loving character, with a sorrowful backstory and outstanding story. Show Thom feels like a cowboy in a fantasy setting
I don’t get it though, they keep talking about one of the kids being a dragon, but literally none of them have wings, and not one, not a single one, has breathed fire. Like wtf
Like the weak men who surround us you shy away from your true nature, so that you may be coddled by the miasma of ignorance and cowardice put forth by your own pathetic hand. Release the 2 hour take, or be judged as a worm in the eyes of the strong.
The main problem with the show is perspective. It's a big show with lots of characters, factions and stuff going on, and in the book we get most of it though one perspective: Rand's. Rand is our window into this world, and we learn about most of it along with him. Rand grounds us into the story and its many aspects. The show doesn't do this, and that makes it feel a lot more disjointed than it had to be. The show would have been stronger if it had started out simpler and smaller, and if it had expanded outward more gradually.
All jokes aside, when Perrin and Egwene meet the Tinkers, it should have gone like this: Tinkers: "Do you know the song" Egwene: "uh" Perrin (eyes turn yellow): *clears throat* "We're no strangers to looooove You know the rules And so do I" Seriously, though, if neither of the actors thought to rickroll the Tinkers in at least one take, the show is dead to me.
That’s sounds like the equivalent to losing “the game”. If you know what I’m talking about, then you just lost. What makes it better is that you probably lost after 10+ years of winning.
@@Connor43113 its only YA for the first 2 and a half books. Its gets pretty dark from book 4 onwards. The series matures as the characters and stakes do.
Confidence? They were terrified to use the source material; only a man can be the dragon reborn, how/why that is tied to tainted Saidin, the important differences between the MALE and FEMALE duality of the True Source. They definitely shied away from the importance of gender. Saidin is aggressive and destructive, only Saidar can heal, and in the age of legends it took men and women working together with the Power to create the greatest works of their time. I was really dejected after watching the first season.
Hey I’m in this one! Also Nynaeve’s lack of braid tugging is no longer the most egregious thing. In episode 5 Moiraine wears BOOTS IN HER GODDAM BED!! I don’t care if it’s her own bed in her own room, that is literally barbaric. Moiraine should be scrubbing floors with the novices for months for that egregious offense. I’ve never been so offended by something in my life. Also I think it would’ve worked better as an animated series, you’d be way less constrained by things like location and set construction. I think the main reason they didn’t have more scenes take place in cities like Caemlyn and Whitebridge is it would simply cost too much have so many distinct city sets created for one season, and in animation that problem just does not exist. You also have way more control over tone and art direction, so the series could feel more authentic to the book tone without having to do tons of weird stuff to costuming and set design.
Don't they regularly reference using magic to clean themselves, which is why they are always so clean? Also earlier she references her boots, horse, and Lan on the road as more of a home than tar valon. Shes expecting to be run out of the tower, gotta keep your shoes on.
@@amp7980 I don’t remember any specific mentions, at least in book one, of people using magic to clean themselves. And while that is a good point, Moiraine’s like the most proper and noble person in the entire world. Even if they’re clean, I’d she of all people gonna wear boots in bed? That’s just terrible decorum
@@meurer13daniel it can be but in the current state of the industry it very rarely is, at least not something of the budget of WOT. It also has fewer problems of scale which is the main thing. The cost scaling as you need more and more locations and sets gets out of hand way quicker than simply needing to draw different backgrounds for animation. That means that for an adventure story that spans an entire world with an insane number of cities and general locations that animation is an easier medium, since it doesn’t suffer the same issues of cost scale as live action
The Two Rivers and it's residents know way too much about the world around them. These "kids" are acting like people with access to a formal education system and large high school environment rather than superstitious country bumpkins from a community of maybe a few thousand spread over at least 20 square miles, and that's just for our heroes' town. It's like the show expects us to believe that social structures that existed before the Breaking survived but everyone voluntarily went back to living with essentially medieval technology. These two things cannot happen together. Either the Breaking broke the world or it didn't.
I think "a few thousand" is a bit generous Emond's Field always came off as a small village to me, like 150~300 people max - extrapolate that to the rest of the villages in the Two Rivers, and you've got like, idk, 1500 people? And I mean, them being so well educated on how the world works isn't that weird considering the fact that this village that is isolated 99% of the time, and has been for the last few thousand years, is as diverse as a college campus. The Two Rivers University is just around the corner!
@@Hegataro Wee more diverse than any college campus I've been to... Shouldn't everybody basically be brown by this point? I think it might still be a few thou based on the scale and impact the Two Rivers archer corps had towards the end.
It’s actually hilarious that anyone who has read the books would think that there’s “too much blood and violence” in the show, considering the amount of blood and violence and dismemberment in the books and Trollocs literally slicing people with swords smeared with their own shit
Agreed. The books have a generous amount of straight up R rated horror and deal with some serious war PTSD and trauma, and only get darker and more grim as it goes on and the Dark One's influence grows.
Interpersonal relationships and character drama as an ever-growing cast gets involved in increasingly fantastical battles, complete with big ole vistas? Should've been an anime.
I like the idea of animation or western but anime inspired, but not the idea of it being a literal Japanese anime. Too many tropes and storytelling styles that I'm not a fan of that are consistent across the entire medium.
I never have anything interesting to add or any unpopular opinions, but I just love seeing these comments and your reactions to them. You looked so thankful it was over
I dunno, doesn't the Emond's Field gang come across a whole town that was dismembered by Trollocs in the books? Some pretty brutal shit happens in those books, dunno how it's out of tone to have a little gore
If I am right, you are talking about a moment in book two, while tracking Fain. Not 100% if it is just Perrin and Matt, or if Rand is still with them at that point.
It's more about how it's shown. Jordan pulls back from a lot of that while still letting you know what happened, so that the stuff shown more intensely has extra impact.
Honestly, I think the tone of the show is just a miss. Early on, the "grim dark" aspects of WoT are subtle. We're ignorant and the place seems pretty idyllic. As the story progresses, we see JUST how foolish that perspective was even BEFORE the story begins. Jordan's world is SERIOUSLY fucked up and the there really aren't many "good guys" to be found. Jordan puts a veneer of sortness over steel. The horror is all through the books, but the themes are of hope and humanity. The show seems to do the opposite. A veneer of grim darkness over not much substance. There's violence and gore... but it's all kinda shallow. The main message seems to be that men suck (they made Sheinarans disrespectful to Aes Sedai JUST to make Agelmar look like an arsehole. COMPLETELY unnecessary and misses the point that is rather plain in the books. That gender dynamics are a BIT different than they are for us. If you employ the same lens to interpret allegory in the book to the show... the show runner apparently LOVES gender oppression and patriarchy. Because that IS the allegory. That the taint has disrupted the pattern and lead men to a less advantages social status. The world is dominated by matriarchal power, and at least SOME of that is HORRIBLY toxic)
I don’t hate the show, I don’t love the show, I just like it, and it I hope it will improve with time. Also I am happy you are enjoying the books. I finished the Great Hunt the day you posted your review, which is how I found your channel. I am reading Lord of Chaos now.
Start of show : one of you is the dragon reborn and will destroy the world Ep:5 omg, this poor warder has killed himself -Lan Rip's open shirt with grieve Epic escalation
They allocated the show's time weirdly...it would be like if in breaking bad, they simply spent 2/3 of the time showing Heisenberg sitting with his family eating breakfast. And then they only had like 15 minutes remaining for the rest of the plot
God I hope not, most of the criticism I’ve seen from book fans if taken seriously would ruin the show. That’s what happens when your fanbase is used to 1000’s of pages of one of the most drawn out stories of all time, I like the books but fuck the fans do not understand what would make a good tv show.
@@callum7081 but tonally, the show I all over the place; they're trying to make a show like GoT, but based on material that is high fantasy, and typically geared towards YA/teen audience...like, they should stick to one thing, and be consistent.
@@callum7081 This shows a massive misunderstanding of just what it is people take such issue with. We are 5 episodes into an 8 episode season. Of a show based on a 14 book long series. We can't do a season per book, that would just be unworkable. So of course cuts are necessary. But 5 episodes into an 8 episode season, and the Eye of the World hasn't been mentioned once. Instead, we spent a good half hour on Rafe Judkins' headcanon in which Lan and some nothingburger Warder wax lyrical about their feelings and then said nothingburger kills himself and then Lan tears his shirt and screams. Over half of that episode was dedicated to this filler content, and it _was_ filler.
i really like the show and also haven't read the books but i agree that it feels like Rand and Mat have straight up been to that one town before when they get there. like Rand sees a dude in a cage with arrows in him and goes "damn that's crazy alright Mat you better not steal anything or you'll end up like him haha"
While I didn't care for this show, I don't mind others enjoying it. What I do mind is people saying "II know this is an unpopular opinion, but I've come up with a way to enjoy the show all by myself. When I watch it, what I do is that I think of it as a different turning of the wheel.", or something to that effect. It was a bit cute the first couple times. Now it's just not.
@@CloudyVisionsMNE Outrage is always louder. MANY book fans are enjoying it. We just don't have anything to shout about from the rooftops. And if you think about it, people with more nuanced pros/cons or general opinions aren't likely to be engaging with the black-and-white, politically infused outrage that can sum up most of the louder criticism. So yeah, virtually undetectable if you're browsing forums to get an idea for the general consensus. Idk about majority like George said, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Actually, when Daniel was at the premiere he got to talk to a lot of the cast and crew and most of them said that they watch his reviews and that they helped them in creating the show so a cameo is actually not that out of the realm of possibility.
Be afraid. Be very afraid... Actually, I'm wondering if Sanderson may have a small cameo now. They aren't going to have untrained actors gues appear on the show, but a quick Stephen King style scene wouldn't be that much of a stretch.
Or Leigh Burdago in shadow and bone. For those of you who haven’t watched the show, Leigh was the first person to hug Alina after her first show of power. It was a very small scene, did not require a lot of acting and was something symbolic too.
@@ThePopsers Yes, because "the only way I can even consider this to be wheel of time is to pretend it is another turning" is such a glowing endorsement.
I don't know if the, 'Bela is the Dragon Reborn' was echoed by others; but I have echoed it in multiple youtube creator videos. I want to say, I think it originated with me. I am happy to elevate the discussion. :)
Most of the discrepancies I can deal with, but somehow what really bugs me is the show's portrayal of the White Tower. It's supposed to be this magnificent spire, but instead we get this squat cylindrical complex.
Well in the book they talk about it as a way tall spire and we certainly get the same feel reading the book but if you see it’s canonical measurement it’s 600 ft tall with a 300 ft base which tapers to 200 ft at the top. So it would most probably look like frustum of a cone or as you said, a squat cylinder😅
5:42 "A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell him nothing, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization."
Interspersed with all the ridiculousness, your critique of the show is spot on. It's not awful, but it could be so, so much better. It seems to be trying to capture the GOT viewers looking for something edgy without also offending those, like me, who would be put off by that. In the end, it doesn't seem to know what it's going for. I'm hoping that they really find their groove in Season 2.
We also have to remember Book 1 was really awkward in ways that don't mesh with the rest of the series. I just finished rereading EotW yesterday, and the ending sequence especially was just a total mess. I think they did try to modernize and revitalize EotW (in some ways that worked, in others that didn't) but I also think the series will become truer to what we know as the world establishes itself and the source material gets more variety in it. Book fans might've been thrilled to see the first season be 2.5 episodes of action and the rest be episodes of walking and exposition, but critics and people new to the series would've torn it to pieces.
I don't quite understand when a showrunner picks something that is well loved by so many people and thinks "Yeah that's great, but I'm going to change a bunch of things because I think its better."
Moiraine " Lews and 100 male Aes Sedai thought they could contain darkness itself ...... The arrogance". Also Moiraine - Let's go directly to the Dark Ones prison and yeet 5 villagers at him. All I have to say about the quality of the writing on this show.
I can definitely see the budget, Rand and Mat aren't impressed by Tar Valon because from what we see, it looks like one big tower and a bunch of two-story buildings.
It's also the identical set (identical street and building facades) as Shadar Logoth. There's a great side by side screenshot somebody posted. Maybe it was a case of "seen it all before" 🤣
@@GLWrath of course if we want an in universe excuse 🤣 But I don't buy that, we know that Tar Valon was the pinnacle of Ogier construction so I would believe that it would be the unique stand out among all Ogier-built cities.
about the violence: there are some really great scenes/battles in later books that have a lot of violence so my guess is they just had to establish that early. It would have been weird if it was all PG-13 and then BOOM a certain battle happens
What I (surprising to me too) don't like of the show, is that Moiraine is _way_ too nice to people, and relatable. In the books she is insufferable for a LONG time, and you get to understand much better why most characters (including Rand) hate Aes Sedai. She does get better later, but only because Rand basically forces her to. In the series, she is immediately shown as the good guy.
I think seeing Moiraine that way is more of a matter of perspective. I never saw her as insufferable, on the contrary, I thought she and Thom were the only ones really knowing what was going on and the kids should just shut up and do as they say. She did make some mistakes, but everyone in WoT does, and her mistakes are arguably not very significant
@@4LegCrotch i think the first couple of books made a much better case at presenting her as having inscrutable goals, for which she was ready to sacrifice anything and anyone, and very often evading telling the truth and manipulating everyone, including the Rand & co. themselves. This justified the fact Rand & co. wondered for quite a while whether they should actually trust her or not. In the series, she states her goals fairly clearly and most importantly, hardly ever manipulates anyone. We do see her let some random guy die, but it's clear to anyone she was in the right, there's no mystery, no seeds of doubt there.
Carlos's comment reminds me of something (I think) Brandon Sanderson said. If it wasn't him it was someone else. But when he read the series when he was younger, he had more of the perspective that you described, annoyed with Moiraine from the perspective of the kids. But when he re-read it as an adult, he had the complete opposite perspective - more like Carlos', where he thinks the kids are being ridiculous and they should just trust her because she obviously knows what she's talking about etc.. I'm paraphrasing and the way he said it was more colorful than that, but I agree with Carlos that it's somewhat a matter of perspective. Obviously when re-reading it, Sanderson knows Moiraine a lot better so there's some bias there of course. I think something else that might be relevant to this difference, though, is that they wanted to (effectively) cast her as the lead. The Emonds Field Five were likely expected to be relatively less accomplished actors, and casting a more veteran actor/actress as a more traditional leading role may have even been part of successfully pitching the show. That's highly speculative on my part but that general concept may still have played a part in some big way. Regardless, we get the experience of Moiraine that you describe in the books partially because we see her as the other characters do, but in the show we see her more as she sees herself.
They pretty much ruined Moiraine's entire character arc. On top of that, they also made her an idiot... most especially in the scene with Siuan arguing for the "five headed dragon"... and at the end threatening Rand with her knife. Then again, they ruined all of the OTHER main characters, too, so...
Hot take: the narrow hallways in tower are too small and need to be scaled up, they also appear to have exterior windows on both sides of hall which makes no sense. Are these floating tubes or interior halls? One side of hall having windows to exterior, possible, but all, not so much. Liandrin tells Nyneave the warder statues stand guard outside the entrance to the Hall, I'm assuming the hall of sitters, but we see Steppin walk down same hall, presumably thru those same doors into the open air terrace with brazier to melt down Karene's ring. Do a better job with interior Tower sets going forward, they scream FAKE!! P.S. I also need to see Lan flex his unparalleled poetic prowess with obscure references to master works that even a court bard would struggle to recount.
There is blood and gore in the books, heads on spikes, flayed bodies, many times characters puking after seeing these things. It's not even rare, it happens all time.
you forget that that's exactly the problem. As the characters go from innocence to adulthood so does the world goes from basically shire to a grimadark place. I hate it when people like you try to say that the series is gory from the start with flayed bodies and heads on spikes. For all the new readers this person is lying just so you know.
@@RespectTheSourceMaterial I literally just reread the first 2 books and it's gory from the start. Lol. It's not gratuitously described, I'll give it that. It hasn't been gratuitous in the show yet either.
@@Dejarik11 I've just finished the first book today and it's really not gory at all. I don't know what you're talking about. In the show in just one episode we've seen sex, swearing, gory violence, parental abuse, and fridging. By episode 4 we see dead little girls and women getting stabbed to death from knives in the neck. Please dude stop with the BS. This is just trying to be like got. That's why it's bad. It doesn't have it's own identity.
Perrin's wife being fridged has had no payoff. In the books, the prophecies made it clear that only a man can be the Dragon. The whole issue is that Saidin is corrupted and that means the savior will go nuts. That tension does not exist with a woman. No idea why they made that change.
I am enjoying the show for the most part, but a few criticisms: - A lot of the costuming looks like theatre costumes, (Aes Sedai and Whitecloaks in particular), not like clothes actual people would wear. - This might be a budget thing, but yeah... there's this feel that shooting locations are, well, shooting locations. It's hard to specify, but the forest roads look like they were torn up by a tractor just the day before, the mining town looks like it's located in a modern quarry, the road right outside of Tar Valon looks weirdly desolate and tiny (but somehow has a immaculately crafted tiny bridge across some random creek) - They seem intent on giving basically every character a very in-your-face tragic backstory or specific event of trauma that is intended to "explain" that character's motivation to us. The obvious example is Perrin's wife-fridging, but I'd put Nynaeve and Mat in there, too. In all cases, they take things that are more broadly personality-driven (Perrin is careful and slow because he's a big guy and he knows he intimidates people and can easily hurt or scare others, Mat is kind of a dick because he's just that kinda guy) or culturally-driven (Nynaeve distrusts Aes Sedai because they are outsiders and frankly most people distrust Aes Sedai anyway, and Moiraine specifically because she just basically abducted a bunch of kids Nynaeve was raised to believe she is responsible for.) and turn them into "this specific event defines this person and all the decisions they do that are relevant to the viewer. I understand that film works different from literature, but I can't help find these changes to be a bit... condescending, or kinda dumbed down. Easier to understand, I'm sure.
Also, on your point with the costumes - the Wheel of Time books lay a heavy emphasis on different cultures, clothing and ways of speaking, but everyone talks the same, wears the same clothes, and acts the same, be it in Emond's Field or Tar Valon
The one thing that peeves me is the complaining about there being explicit violence, sex and nudity...like they are trying to be GoT or more mature than it is. I think it's a bad take. All of this and much more is in the books, it's just not described in an explicit way. How do you show a trollck eating someone in a non-explicit way? And after that plus all the torture scenes, it would be silly to just fade to black when there's sex. Regarding the nudity I've read porn books that have less nudity than WoT so I don't see the issue. Seeing how the story goes(no spoilers), it will be impossible to avoid horrific, gory battles, murders, and tortures. And having that but fading to back for sex scenes it would just be silly and jarring. Also, it's a very American thing. There should be a rule: if there are skinned monsters nailed to doors & people being eaten, you get to show nudity and sex as well since they are not the disturbing part.
I think the issue is more that is happening right away and it doesn't make sense in the context of the character arcs or the culture these characters supposedly originate from. It's jarring and really damages the overall suspension of disbelief. Rand getting freaky with his three paramours later on after going through some shit, sure, but he has to go through some shit first. The violence though, yeah go for it. The characters are used to that kind of death as evident by the first few pages in the books so while it would be jarring to them, it wouldn't be that jarring.
@@userJohnSmith Obviously Robert Jordan made a choice to have the Two Rivers be conservative sexually, but it isn't at all a stretch given the worldbuilding that the culture of the two rivers wouldn't be so repressive. It's not a medieval world, values based on abrahamic religions aren't a factor, it's much more egalitarian or even matriarchal in places, there's no threat of going to hell for "sin", etc. I'd even argue that them being open and accepting sexually is a more interesting and unique idea in fantasy than the opposite.
@@David-un4cs Most cultures, wait... All cultures at this state of development are sexually conservative because sex had consequences when you don't have contraceptives. It's universal. It's not more interesting it's ridiculous.
@@userJohnSmith But they are not at that stage of development, this is not medieval or even renaissance without gunpowder(which is the time period that inspired WoT). This is post-apocalyptic. It is canon that they have germ theory and it is clear that some knowledge has survived the Breaking. And except for one instance(which is probably ta'veren shit) further on in the series, there are no ups babies even though there is lots of constant sex so it's clear that they do have at least partially reliable contraceptives. Also, any time they talk/think about their more conservative rules they phrase it like it's just the way things are done, the "proper" order of things, and so on. It is never talked about like: "what if you have a child out of wedlock?", it is literally never mentioned that there is even a concept of bastards. And since the queen of Andor having a lover is not a scandal and is publically known, and usual practice, it's not really an issue is it? Also, we clearly see, that if there's no need for an alliance, the queen does not need to marry. Any girl child can inherit. If the heir to the throne doesn't have these rules, do you really think peasants would care?
@@ohlookakitty911 I'm talking about the Two Rivers specifically. Outside the backwoods obviously more of the old world survived but these guys don't really even understand the culture of a town literally down the road. Beyond that 3k years in doesn't count as post apocalypse. We aren't living in the past apocalyptic wake of ancient Egypt. The proper way of things implies conservative values and you can't tell me premarital sex isn't shockingly taboo in that community. It's plain in the text and demonstrated by the way the people behave when encountering other cultures and within their own. It's not believable.
My mom is only on book 4 and she’s definitely a book purist lol. My bf who hasn’t read at all but knows about a lot (because I don’t shut up) is really loving the show. Then there’s me who has re-read 10+ times, also enjoying the show. I think that it’s best to have either finished the book series OR to have gone in blind. Because having the vantage point of completed arcs and plots makes the changes make sooo much sense. Like some characters in “The Slog” are immediately less frustrating because of some of these changes. The Showrunner always said they were adapting the series as a whole, they are NOT going book by book. And with that in mind, it makes the loss or swap of some details seem insignificant. I don’t think it’s perfect by any means, but it’s a a high 7 to 8/10 to me so far.
I refuse to watch the show until I'm at least past book 3 as I've heard some things up to book 3 are used in season 1 but the main reason is I want to imagine what these characters look sound and are like myself I don't want others ideas pressed into me. Love the content man. Especially the long form content.
Wanting it to be a non-gory family show gives away that you haven't read all of the books. If they started the show on the innocent wonder of the first book, there would be some families in for one hell of a surprise a couple of season in.
Yessss this is why I only let my kid read book one with the understanding that it would be some years before I let him read the rest or watch the show. Even just book 2 compared to book 1, more mature vibes, let alone later.
Robert time does it again, this video is amazing and extends the wheel of time lore well. Love the modern feel the series is taking with microphones replacing the one power.
Definitely it is "separating book from show is liberating". We all want to see what we see when we read because it's perfect for us but it's not going to happen. However however I'd love them to add more proverbs/sayings about Aes Sedai/Dark one/Dragon/Forsaken/Aiel/etc among common people, it really builds the background for main characters to meet the huge outside that WoT is. It's integral for their world view and it's tested against reality, building conflict and revelations
I’m pretty shocked at how accepting all of you seem to be. I just started the books specifically because of all the talk about wot recently and hadn’t heard any criticism or praise of the show. I get far enough to where I felt like I could watch an episode or two, and I was honestly excited, but it just seemed so awful and unfaithful to the characters of the book. I understand speeding through the events (even though the pacing of the book so far seems *perfect* for an episodic series) but I don’t understand just straight up hacking the characters to bits and making them whatever you want. I was very attached to GoT and the asoiaf series, I felt like this show is more disappointing than season 8 of got. And I don’t even have that much of a connection to the books. I love the story so far and will probably develop a similar connection, I’m just saying… I’m surprised you guys are so accepting lol. That’s not a bad thing either, I actually wish I weren’t this cynical and could enjoy things that I don’t like, so actually keep it up. Like what you like.
Totally agree with what's said at the 3:00 mark. The show has taken all the youthful wonder out of the EM5. A big part of the book character arcs is watching these innocent kids that have lived fairly carefree lives in an isolated village get thrown out into a both dangerous and wonderous world to grow into adults. Fun badboy Mat has become tragic, morose badboy Mat. Perrin had a wife with a kid on the way that he accidently kills. Egwene and Rand are boning. Ya when they enter a major city it's no big deal. This EM5 is much more worldly, majorly changing the arc.
I'm too busy reading the Earthsea series right now, so I'm just gonna try and piece together the plot of these books and show solely from your videos. So this Thom guy is like a Nickelback singer but in the books he's more like a talented singer, and also the trollocs (which I assume are the big scary monsters) are cursed to be dummy thicc.
Peter Jackson took some liberties with the LOTR. Amazon took huge liberties. Names, places, a hint of the story remains. I mean, if it was closer to the story, Amazon had a huge fan base that they could build on. As they did it, they have driven the fan base away and provided nothing that I can see that would bring in new people. It was better than the Shannara adaptation. That isn't saying much.
How is this show not woke? What is even your definition of woke? Woke is all about representaiton, making wahmen strong and all that jazz. This show represents the isolated Two Rivers as a hub of diversity and not a single man has done anything useful in the show. All the cool moments were done by women. That the very definition of woke, add that Egwene is starting to look quite like a Mary Sue and we have it all. (I'm glad Nynaeve didn't get that treatment at least).
I think I love this series! It's always concise and thoughtful reviews of shows I will never watch based on books I will never read! Please review "The Expanse" soon! 🤣
The magic system, integral to the story, was butchered. The two halves of the One Power, Saidin (male) and Saidar (female) are completely ignored or have been made insignificant. Only a man can be the Dragon Reborn. And not because PaTRiaRcHY, but because the male halve of the True Source is tainted by the Dark One as a curse to cause madness in any man who can channel. It is said more than once in the books that "death can not be healed". Yet in the FIRST season they have already broken this important limitation on the One Power. And Rand's power was so anticlimactic in the final episode. Had to give it to the women at Tarwin's Gap in the battle at Fal Dara. Come on man! Really? Sorry, I was just too let down by all the changes. I could write a short paper on it smh.
Darn he didn't include my favourite comment but I understand why it wasn't featured. The show is trying to hide who is the dragon reborn and my favourite comment was for the best show experience you should only watch the scenes with that character and skip everything else. I would definitely read the Kafka-esque dragon rewrite.
I actually love how we don't know who the dragon reborn is. I think that it's important for the show and for our modern day that it really could be anyone.
Nope. It can't be anyone? It can only be a male. The reason being that the Dragon Reborn was a male Magic wielder (and his male companions) went mad after trying to close the prison of the Dsrk One. And this is why male magic users are hunted down because of the madness. And why the Dragon Reborn is both loved and feared since he will help to defeat the dark one and might go mad and break the world again in the process. Unfortunately, political correctness has invaded RJs masterpiece and made the TV show unpalatable.
Why would it be important that it can be anyone? The Dragon Reborn is not a gender. It is a very specific person who got that title on account of their accomplishments in a world war. If they want to change the Dragon Reborn to a woman, then Lews Therin should also be a woman, because she would be the one that earned the title.. not her gender. Equality does not mean removing a person's unique perspective or their value as an individual. There are many great characters in the source material. I do not want any of them to be gender swapped or changed to great degree for the sake of someone that did not appreciate them for who they are.. who does not appreciate their gender, or race.
Tearing clothes is an ancient form of expressing grief. In both Greek and ancient Near East literature, those experiencing profound loss frequently are said to have torn their clothes. Lan doing that felt perfectly normal for me. Then again, I have a graduate degree in Greek and Hebrew, so my nerdiness is probably not the experience of the rest of the US.
Actually yes, it's woke af and said by the same director/producer: Rafe Jundkins. 1-Rand, Perrin and Matt deprived of any of their moments in book 1 if not all of them and also of their character development. On the other hand, Egwene and Nyaneve going super saiyan mode, aoe healing and curing death without any training whatsoever and also stealing moments from the boys. 2-Thom Merrilin a sad edgy fantasy cowboy? Lord Agelmar being an utter incompetent who needs to be saved by 5 not even Aes Sedai after losing his army and getting scolded by his sister. 3-Lews Therrin? portrayed as a complete and utter fool who destroyed the world because he didn't listen to the new invented Amyrlin Seat (a woman oc, because a man can't be the amyrlin seat)... desperation play? losing the war? the prologue? Nothing of it, the age of legends portrayed as a peaceful city which was destroyed by the follishness of the Dragon (which they name "reborn" too btw). It was better to see the red Ajah killing some randoms and Egwene being thrown into the river for no reason whatsoever and of even less importance for the plot. 4-Nyaneve and Egwene being Ta'veren and considered as possible candidates of being the dragon reborn can just be made by an idiot who didn't even read the first chapters of book 1. Equality BS and utter incompetence and lack of comprehension of R.Jordan's story by the director. 5-Saidin and saidar? No, we can't have power discrepancy because women need no men or so they try to portray again and again in the show. This difference gets explained like 200 times in the first book but that must be problematic somehow. 6- 5/6 Fully armed soldiers defeated by single a woman while IN LABOR who btw can cut plate armor like butter with daggers and spears... because reasons... must be because she is so strong and independent that was upgraded to a Marvel superhero level. There's certainly more cases just named the biggest ones. If this is not woke agenda please explain to me the motivations behind these aberrant changes.
I think the time spent with the Tinkers will be worth it in the long run. For now it feels like too much, but when we get a few books in it's going pay dividends. But I do agree that they did not trust the source material enough.
The problem with cutting the small things like mordeth or rand carrying tham is that it makes the series much more generic and flat in my opinion wot is so good because it is so detailed
I do like looking at Rand, except that the hair is a little much. But the Rand voice feels lower than Josha’s natural voice (idk for sure of course) and I guess I’d like to be more attracted to his voice 😌
It is woke. And the changes to the characters are directly tied to that. The fact you won't acknowledge that as the main problem with the show is pretty sad. Moiraine and Suian being lesbian lovers is a huge tonal shift to those characters and the way they changed Mat is unforgivable. The Wheel of Time was a diverse world forcing that into the Two Rivers does not do justice to the Diverse world that Robert Jordan wrote. Also not developing Rand was terrible writing.
My main problem is that if you changed the names of the characters, places, trollocs, dark one, etc. the series would be nearly indistinguishable from the books and only the megafans would draw parallels and then it would still be vague. They could have just used WOT as inspiration and made a whole differently named series. The series does a great job of causing the book fans to wonder what the heck is going on most of the time. I cant imagine what it is like for the non-fans. There have been several episodes that not one single aspect of was taken from the books. Im not sure how exactly it can be called "Wheel of Time"
I think the funeral scene felt silly for a lot of people because it was supposed to be this big emotional scene but they barely built stepin as a character we should care about. So it was emotionless for me.
I actually wanted MORE anachronisms. A real costume designer that could mimic what the cover art did-a strange asiatic/western/victorian-era style would have been nice instead of generic fantasy. Also, with the budget they have, they could have afforded better set dressing and costume design. Where did all the money go?
@@DirtyStringz Just watched the 2nd Season of the Witcher (the first episode)-less budget. But the costuming, and set design is amazing. I won't compare acting and writing-while known actors are expensive, an unknown can break out. The lighting was great-cinematography great, CGI-again, no issues. LESS money.
Pike sometimes hits the mark, other times misses it by over acting but it’s the constant drawn out breathy voice she uses and the way she’s always holding her hands out to her side that gets under my skin and rolls my eyes. Not that it matters for me anymore, I bailed on the garbage they try to call WoT after ep5...
It's interesting to see your opinion on some of these hot takes, and I'd be interested to see how your opinion changes as you get further into the series. I'm specifically thinking about your comment on blood and Gore
Thom in the books is a flamboyant, extravagent, and loving character, with a sorrowful backstory and outstanding story. Show Thom feels like a cowboy in a fantasy setting
Cowboy wheelbop
I'm sorry I had to
Show Thom is so much better
Was it the sound of spurs as he walks that gave it away?
And that's why I love show Thom more than book Thom.
#notmythom
I don’t get it though, they keep talking about one of the kids being a dragon, but literally none of them have wings, and not one, not a single one, has breathed fire. Like wtf
Gave me a chuckle. Thanks 😊
I read every single book waiting for a dragon transformation.
@@devlyn873 he could’ve AT LEAST rode on a dragon
@@aliaibrahim4517 I definitely would have accepted that in lieu of turning into one!
Id say that after the last book he gained the ability to turn into a dragon if he ever felt like it
Like the weak men who surround us you shy away from your true nature, so that you may be coddled by the miasma of ignorance and cowardice put forth by your own pathetic hand. Release the 2 hour take, or be judged as a worm in the eyes of the strong.
The show kinda looks like a bunch of people LARPing and its lowkey obliterating my suspension of disbelief.
Waiting for a Blazing Saddles style cutaway?
"Robert time made a good words" a truly timeless review
XD
Good word salads
I hope it becomes a front jacket blurb on each of the 400 books in the series.
wrong, it says time once
The main problem with the show is perspective. It's a big show with lots of characters, factions and stuff going on, and in the book we get most of it though one perspective: Rand's. Rand is our window into this world, and we learn about most of it along with him. Rand grounds us into the story and its many aspects. The show doesn't do this, and that makes it feel a lot more disjointed than it had to be. The show would have been stronger if it had started out simpler and smaller, and if it had expanded outward more gradually.
I'm loving this Hot Takes series. Who else enjoys seeing Jake suffer from the comments?
I gain strength from seeing his suffering. More!
It's fun! 😭
@@craigh5236 MOAR!!!!! MOAARRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
I think he is brave enough to do this for Starwars and Harry Potter.
All jokes aside, when Perrin and Egwene meet the Tinkers, it should have gone like this:
Tinkers: "Do you know the song"
Egwene: "uh"
Perrin (eyes turn yellow): *clears throat* "We're no strangers to looooove
You know the rules
And so do I"
Seriously, though, if neither of the actors thought to rickroll the Tinkers in at least one take, the show is dead to me.
That’s sounds like the equivalent to losing “the game”. If you know what I’m talking about, then you just lost. What makes it better is that you probably lost after 10+ years of winning.
I’m sorry, the song is Proud Mary. “Big wheels keep on turning (turning)!”
I won't lie, Rick roll is the most unimaginative, overused "joke" it just makes me cringe.
@@MarsStranded 😤
😅
"They didn't have enough confidence in the source material..." Sums up my entire feeling about the show
I'm not even sure that's Rafe's fault. I get the sense that he has his hands tied a bit with what scenes make it and which ones don't.
I think that has to do with them trying to make a grim dark fantasy series out what is essentially a YA fantasy book series.
@@Connor43113 its only YA for the first 2 and a half books. Its gets pretty dark from book 4 onwards. The series matures as the characters and stakes do.
@@Connor43113 WoT was never YA
Confidence? They were terrified to use the source material; only a man can be the dragon reborn, how/why that is tied to tainted Saidin, the important differences between the MALE and FEMALE duality of the True Source. They definitely shied away from the importance of gender. Saidin is aggressive and destructive, only Saidar can heal, and in the age of legends it took men and women working together with the Power to create the greatest works of their time. I was really dejected after watching the first season.
Hey I’m in this one! Also Nynaeve’s lack of braid tugging is no longer the most egregious thing. In episode 5 Moiraine wears BOOTS IN HER GODDAM BED!! I don’t care if it’s her own bed in her own room, that is literally barbaric. Moiraine should be scrubbing floors with the novices for months for that egregious offense. I’ve never been so offended by something in my life.
Also I think it would’ve worked better as an animated series, you’d be way less constrained by things like location and set construction. I think the main reason they didn’t have more scenes take place in cities like Caemlyn and Whitebridge is it would simply cost too much have so many distinct city sets created for one season, and in animation that problem just does not exist. You also have way more control over tone and art direction, so the series could feel more authentic to the book tone without having to do tons of weird stuff to costuming and set design.
Don't they regularly reference using magic to clean themselves, which is why they are always so clean? Also earlier she references her boots, horse, and Lan on the road as more of a home than tar valon. Shes expecting to be run out of the tower, gotta keep your shoes on.
@@amp7980 I don’t remember any specific mentions, at least in book one, of people using magic to clean themselves. And while that is a good point, Moiraine’s like the most proper and noble person in the entire world. Even if they’re clean, I’d she of all people gonna wear boots in bed? That’s just terrible decorum
To be fair though, good animation can be crazy expensive too
Animation can be more expensive than live action.
@@meurer13daniel it can be but in the current state of the industry it very rarely is, at least not something of the budget of WOT. It also has fewer problems of scale which is the main thing. The cost scaling as you need more and more locations and sets gets out of hand way quicker than simply needing to draw different backgrounds for animation. That means that for an adventure story that spans an entire world with an insane number of cities and general locations that animation is an easier medium, since it doesn’t suffer the same issues of cost scale as live action
The Two Rivers and it's residents know way too much about the world around them. These "kids" are acting like people with access to a formal education system and large high school environment rather than superstitious country bumpkins from a community of maybe a few thousand spread over at least 20 square miles, and that's just for our heroes' town.
It's like the show expects us to believe that social structures that existed before the Breaking survived but everyone voluntarily went back to living with essentially medieval technology. These two things cannot happen together. Either the Breaking broke the world or it didn't.
I think "a few thousand" is a bit generous
Emond's Field always came off as a small village to me, like 150~300 people max - extrapolate that to the rest of the villages in the Two Rivers, and you've got like, idk, 1500 people?
And I mean, them being so well educated on how the world works isn't that weird considering the fact that this village that is isolated 99% of the time, and has been for the last few thousand years, is as diverse as a college campus. The Two Rivers University is just around the corner!
@@Hegataro Wee more diverse than any college campus I've been to... Shouldn't everybody basically be brown by this point? I think it might still be a few thou based on the scale and impact the Two Rivers archer corps had towards the end.
@@userJohnSmith yeah, everyone should be the same shade (except for Rand for obvious reasons), not all over the place
It’s actually hilarious that anyone who has read the books would think that there’s “too much blood and violence” in the show, considering the amount of blood and violence and dismemberment in the books and Trollocs literally slicing people with swords smeared with their own shit
omg that's what "trolloc poison" is? If that's true I totally forgot xD
Ha, ur right, lots of blood and bloody as*es.
Agreed. The books have a generous amount of straight up R rated horror and deal with some serious war PTSD and trauma, and only get darker and more grim as it goes on and the Dark One's influence grows.
Yee
There were some pretty awful things that happened in the books. It didn't really focus on the carnage, but it was there
Interpersonal relationships and character drama as an ever-growing cast gets involved in increasingly fantastical battles, complete with big ole vistas?
Should've been an anime.
You know what can real easily capture all the adventure and idyllic child-like wonder with encroaching real danger?
Anime.
I like the idea of animation or western but anime inspired, but not the idea of it being a literal Japanese anime. Too many tropes and storytelling styles that I'm not a fan of that are consistent across the entire medium.
@@David-un4cs Well, yes. In the style of anime. Netflix has been doing this a lot lately with shows like Castlevania , Dragon Prince, etc.
Ok
I never have anything interesting to add or any unpopular opinions, but I just love seeing these comments and your reactions to them. You looked so thankful it was over
I dunno, doesn't the Emond's Field gang come across a whole town that was dismembered by Trollocs in the books? Some pretty brutal shit happens in those books, dunno how it's out of tone to have a little gore
If I am right, you are talking about a moment in book two, while tracking Fain. Not 100% if it is just Perrin and Matt, or if Rand is still with them at that point.
It's more about how it's shown. Jordan pulls back from a lot of that while still letting you know what happened, so that the stuff shown more intensely has extra impact.
Honestly, I think the tone of the show is just a miss.
Early on, the "grim dark" aspects of WoT are subtle. We're ignorant and the place seems pretty idyllic.
As the story progresses, we see JUST how foolish that perspective was even BEFORE the story begins. Jordan's world is SERIOUSLY fucked up and the there really aren't many "good guys" to be found.
Jordan puts a veneer of sortness over steel. The horror is all through the books, but the themes are of hope and humanity.
The show seems to do the opposite. A veneer of grim darkness over not much substance. There's violence and gore... but it's all kinda shallow. The main message seems to be that men suck (they made Sheinarans disrespectful to Aes Sedai JUST to make Agelmar look like an arsehole. COMPLETELY unnecessary and misses the point that is rather plain in the books. That gender dynamics are a BIT different than they are for us. If you employ the same lens to interpret allegory in the book to the show... the show runner apparently LOVES gender oppression and patriarchy. Because that IS the allegory. That the taint has disrupted the pattern and lead men to a less advantages social status. The world is dominated by matriarchal power, and at least SOME of that is HORRIBLY toxic)
I don’t hate the show, I don’t love the show, I just like it, and it I hope it will improve with time. Also I am happy you are enjoying the books. I finished the Great Hunt the day you posted your review, which is how I found your channel. I am reading Lord of Chaos now.
I'm basically in the same position regarding the show.
Enjoy!
Nice! You are speeding past me!
@@ManCarryingThing you’ll catch up, loving it so far.
You suffer for our enjoyment like a real dragon reborn. Not the hero we need, but the hero with memes.
Start of show : one of you is the dragon reborn and will destroy the world
Ep:5 omg, this poor warder has killed himself
-Lan Rip's open shirt with grieve
Epic escalation
They allocated the show's time weirdly...it would be like if in breaking bad, they simply spent 2/3 of the time showing Heisenberg sitting with his family eating breakfast. And then they only had like 15 minutes remaining for the rest of the plot
All I can hope, is that season 2 takes the feedback and criticism seriously, and makes the appropriate changes. I really want this show to succeed 🙏🏾
Well season 2 is going to be a little late for that see how they've already put your the living crap out of the eye of the world
God I hope not, most of the criticism I’ve seen from book fans if taken seriously would ruin the show. That’s what happens when your fanbase is used to 1000’s of pages of one of the most drawn out stories of all time, I like the books but fuck the fans do not understand what would make a good tv show.
@@callum7081 but tonally, the show I all over the place; they're trying to make a show like GoT, but based on material that is high fantasy, and typically geared towards YA/teen audience...like, they should stick to one thing, and be consistent.
@@callum7081 This shows a massive misunderstanding of just what it is people take such issue with. We are 5 episodes into an 8 episode season. Of a show based on a 14 book long series. We can't do a season per book, that would just be unworkable. So of course cuts are necessary. But 5 episodes into an 8 episode season, and the Eye of the World hasn't been mentioned once. Instead, we spent a good half hour on Rafe Judkins' headcanon in which Lan and some nothingburger Warder wax lyrical about their feelings and then said nothingburger kills himself and then Lan tears his shirt and screams. Over half of that episode was dedicated to this filler content, and it _was_ filler.
I think it's unlikely that they would change something as both seasons were shot back to back and the second season is halfway through filming.
i really like the show and also haven't read the books but i agree that it feels like Rand and Mat have straight up been to that one town before when they get there. like Rand sees a dude in a cage with arrows in him and goes "damn that's crazy alright Mat you better not steal anything or you'll end up like him haha"
While I didn't care for this show, I don't mind others enjoying it. What I do mind is people saying "II know this is an unpopular opinion, but I've come up with a way to enjoy the show all by myself. When I watch it, what I do is that I think of it as a different turning of the wheel.", or something to that effect. It was a bit cute the first couple times. Now it's just not.
That's what Sanderson said, I guess that's why people keep quoting him.
the most annoying cope of all time
Show is utter garbage compared to books, people who love the books shouldn’t even bother with it imo
@@CloudyVisionsMNE many book fans like it. I think the majority at least enjoys it
@@CloudyVisionsMNE Outrage is always louder. MANY book fans are enjoying it. We just don't have anything to shout about from the rooftops. And if you think about it, people with more nuanced pros/cons or general opinions aren't likely to be engaging with the black-and-white, politically infused outrage that can sum up most of the louder criticism. So yeah, virtually undetectable if you're browsing forums to get an idea for the general consensus. Idk about majority like George said, but I wouldn't be surprised.
13:12 My sister and I was getting a bit emotional in that scene until Lan did THAT HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WE COULDN'T STOP LAUGHING, IM SORRY DANIEL HENNEY
Actually, when Daniel was at the premiere he got to talk to a lot of the cast and crew and most of them said that they watch his reviews and that they helped them in creating the show so a cameo is actually not that out of the realm of possibility.
Be afraid. Be very afraid...
Actually, I'm wondering if Sanderson may have a small cameo now. They aren't going to have untrained actors gues appear on the show, but a quick Stephen King style scene wouldn't be that much of a stretch.
Or Leigh Burdago in shadow and bone.
For those of you who haven’t watched the show, Leigh was the first person to hug Alina after her first show of power. It was a very small scene, did not require a lot of acting and was something symbolic too.
@@citizensguard3433 I doubt Sanderson wants anything to do with that. He seems rather disgusted with the show.
@@nathanmorgan3647 I think calling him disgusted by it is blowing it waaaay out of proportion.
@@ThePopsers Yes, because "the only way I can even consider this to be wheel of time is to pretend it is another turning" is such a glowing endorsement.
I don't know if the, 'Bela is the Dragon Reborn' was echoed by others; but I have echoed it in multiple youtube creator videos. I want to say, I think it originated with me. I am happy to elevate the discussion. :)
Most of the discrepancies I can deal with, but somehow what really bugs me is the show's portrayal of the White Tower. It's supposed to be this magnificent spire, but instead we get this squat cylindrical complex.
Well in the book they talk about it as a way tall spire and we certainly get the same feel reading the book but if you see it’s canonical measurement it’s 600 ft tall with a 300 ft base which tapers to 200 ft at the top.
So it would most probably look like frustum of a cone or as you said, a squat cylinder😅
5:42
"A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell him nothing, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization."
Interspersed with all the ridiculousness, your critique of the show is spot on. It's not awful, but it could be so, so much better. It seems to be trying to capture the GOT viewers looking for something edgy without also offending those, like me, who would be put off by that. In the end, it doesn't seem to know what it's going for. I'm hoping that they really find their groove in Season 2.
We also have to remember Book 1 was really awkward in ways that don't mesh with the rest of the series. I just finished rereading EotW yesterday, and the ending sequence especially was just a total mess. I think they did try to modernize and revitalize EotW (in some ways that worked, in others that didn't) but I also think the series will become truer to what we know as the world establishes itself and the source material gets more variety in it. Book fans might've been thrilled to see the first season be 2.5 episodes of action and the rest be episodes of walking and exposition, but critics and people new to the series would've torn it to pieces.
Where’s Tom Bombadil!
Jake confirmed as casting for Gawyn yet?
I don't quite understand when a showrunner picks something that is well loved by so many people and thinks "Yeah that's great, but I'm going to change a bunch of things because I think its better."
Moiraine " Lews and 100 male Aes Sedai thought they could contain darkness itself ...... The arrogance". Also Moiraine - Let's go directly to the Dark Ones prison and yeet 5 villagers at him. All I have to say about the quality of the writing on this show.
I can definitely see the budget, Rand and Mat aren't impressed by Tar Valon because from what we see, it looks like one big tower and a bunch of two-story buildings.
It's also the identical set (identical street and building facades) as Shadar Logoth. There's a great side by side screenshot somebody posted. Maybe it was a case of "seen it all before" 🤣
@@zunaidparker Could be because Ogiers built all these cities and they only got one blueprint.
@@GLWrath of course if we want an in universe excuse 🤣 But I don't buy that, we know that Tar Valon was the pinnacle of Ogier construction so I would believe that it would be the unique stand out among all Ogier-built cities.
I'm not impressed by Rand, Mat and Perrin either.
Even then, it's still alot more impressive then anything they've seen before
Pretty sure our "Goblin Reborn" is the began the trend of sexualizing the Trollocs, he was commentating on their "jonk" throughout the promos.
about the violence: there are some really great scenes/battles in later books that have a lot of violence so my guess is they just had to establish that early. It would have been weird if it was all PG-13 and then BOOM a certain battle happens
Not really
Release the 2 hour cut! I'd pay for that!
What I (surprising to me too) don't like of the show, is that Moiraine is _way_ too nice to people, and relatable. In the books she is insufferable for a LONG time, and you get to understand much better why most characters (including Rand) hate Aes Sedai. She does get better later, but only because Rand basically forces her to. In the series, she is immediately shown as the good guy.
I think seeing Moiraine that way is more of a matter of perspective. I never saw her as insufferable, on the contrary, I thought she and Thom were the only ones really knowing what was going on and the kids should just shut up and do as they say. She did make some mistakes, but everyone in WoT does, and her mistakes are arguably not very significant
@@4LegCrotch i think the first couple of books made a much better case at presenting her as having inscrutable goals, for which she was ready to sacrifice anything and anyone, and very often evading telling the truth and manipulating everyone, including the Rand & co. themselves.
This justified the fact Rand & co. wondered for quite a while whether they should actually trust her or not.
In the series, she states her goals fairly clearly and most importantly, hardly ever manipulates anyone. We do see her let some random guy die, but it's clear to anyone she was in the right, there's no mystery, no seeds of doubt there.
Carlos's comment reminds me of something (I think) Brandon Sanderson said. If it wasn't him it was someone else.
But when he read the series when he was younger, he had more of the perspective that you described, annoyed with Moiraine from the perspective of the kids. But when he re-read it as an adult, he had the complete opposite perspective - more like Carlos', where he thinks the kids are being ridiculous and they should just trust her because she obviously knows what she's talking about etc.. I'm paraphrasing and the way he said it was more colorful than that, but I agree with Carlos that it's somewhat a matter of perspective. Obviously when re-reading it, Sanderson knows Moiraine a lot better so there's some bias there of course.
I think something else that might be relevant to this difference, though, is that they wanted to (effectively) cast her as the lead. The Emonds Field Five were likely expected to be relatively less accomplished actors, and casting a more veteran actor/actress as a more traditional leading role may have even been part of successfully pitching the show. That's highly speculative on my part but that general concept may still have played a part in some big way.
Regardless, we get the experience of Moiraine that you describe in the books partially because we see her as the other characters do, but in the show we see her more as she sees herself.
They pretty much ruined Moiraine's entire character arc.
On top of that, they also made her an idiot... most especially in the scene with Siuan arguing for the "five headed dragon"... and at the end threatening Rand with her knife.
Then again, they ruined all of the OTHER main characters, too, so...
Yeah in the first book I was suspecting her of becoming a villain later.
youtube literally trolling him
Hot take: the narrow hallways in tower are too small and need to be scaled up, they also appear to have exterior windows on both sides of hall which makes no sense. Are these floating tubes or interior halls? One side of hall having windows to exterior, possible, but all, not so much. Liandrin tells Nyneave the warder statues stand guard outside the entrance to the Hall, I'm assuming the hall of sitters, but we see Steppin walk down same hall, presumably thru those same doors into the open air terrace with brazier to melt down Karene's ring. Do a better job with interior Tower sets going forward, they scream FAKE!!
P.S. I also need to see Lan flex his unparalleled poetic prowess with obscure references to master works that even a court bard would struggle to recount.
now this is good feedback. Yeah, a hall would need to curve around for it to have windows to the outside in a cylindrical tower.
Moiraine's shoulder pads are incredible, shame on whomever says otherwise
There is blood and gore in the books, heads on spikes, flayed bodies, many times characters puking after seeing these things. It's not even rare, it happens all time.
Some of Jake's comments really show that he has only read the first two books.
you forget that that's exactly the problem. As the characters go from innocence to adulthood so does the world goes from basically shire to a grimadark place. I hate it when people like you try to say that the series is gory from the start with flayed bodies and heads on spikes. For all the new readers this person is lying just so you know.
@@RespectTheSourceMaterial I literally just reread the first 2 books and it's gory from the start. Lol. It's not gratuitously described, I'll give it that. It hasn't been gratuitous in the show yet either.
@@Dejarik11 I've just finished the first book today and it's really not gory at all. I don't know what you're talking about. In the show in just one episode we've seen sex, swearing, gory violence, parental abuse, and fridging. By episode 4 we see dead little girls and women getting stabbed to death from knives in the neck. Please dude stop with the BS. This is just trying to be like got. That's why it's bad. It doesn't have it's own identity.
@@RespectTheSourceMaterial well you should reread the great hunt while they are chasing Fain and coming across all the villages he's been to.
Perrin's wife being fridged has had no payoff.
In the books, the prophecies made it clear that only a man can be the Dragon. The whole issue is that Saidin is corrupted and that means the savior will go nuts. That tension does not exist with a woman. No idea why they made that change.
Thanks for making this! I'm glad to see you are digesting the show for what it is
I laughed out loud at the "lack of wheels" comment, that is incredible. Also agree about preferring a Stormlight adaptation 😂
I am enjoying the show for the most part, but a few criticisms:
- A lot of the costuming looks like theatre costumes, (Aes Sedai and Whitecloaks in particular), not like clothes actual people would wear.
- This might be a budget thing, but yeah... there's this feel that shooting locations are, well, shooting locations. It's hard to specify, but the forest roads look like they were torn up by a tractor just the day before, the mining town looks like it's located in a modern quarry, the road right outside of Tar Valon looks weirdly desolate and tiny (but somehow has a immaculately crafted tiny bridge across some random creek)
- They seem intent on giving basically every character a very in-your-face tragic backstory or specific event of trauma that is intended to "explain" that character's motivation to us. The obvious example is Perrin's wife-fridging, but I'd put Nynaeve and Mat in there, too. In all cases, they take things that are more broadly personality-driven (Perrin is careful and slow because he's a big guy and he knows he intimidates people and can easily hurt or scare others, Mat is kind of a dick because he's just that kinda guy) or culturally-driven (Nynaeve distrusts Aes Sedai because they are outsiders and frankly most people distrust Aes Sedai anyway, and Moiraine specifically because she just basically abducted a bunch of kids Nynaeve was raised to believe she is responsible for.) and turn them into "this specific event defines this person and all the decisions they do that are relevant to the viewer. I understand that film works different from literature, but I can't help find these changes to be a bit... condescending, or kinda dumbed down. Easier to understand, I'm sure.
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Also, on your point with the costumes
- the Wheel of Time books lay a heavy emphasis on different cultures, clothing and ways of speaking, but everyone talks the same, wears the same clothes, and acts the same, be it in Emond's Field or Tar Valon
The one thing that peeves me is the complaining about there being explicit violence, sex and nudity...like they are trying to be GoT or more mature than it is. I think it's a bad take.
All of this and much more is in the books, it's just not described in an explicit way.
How do you show a trollck eating someone in a non-explicit way? And after that plus all the torture scenes, it would be silly to just fade to black when there's sex. Regarding the nudity I've read porn books that have less nudity than WoT so I don't see the issue.
Seeing how the story goes(no spoilers), it will be impossible to avoid horrific, gory battles, murders, and tortures. And having that but fading to back for sex scenes it would just be silly and jarring. Also, it's a very American thing. There should be a rule: if there are skinned monsters nailed to doors & people being eaten, you get to show nudity and sex as well since they are not the disturbing part.
I think the issue is more that is happening right away and it doesn't make sense in the context of the character arcs or the culture these characters supposedly originate from. It's jarring and really damages the overall suspension of disbelief.
Rand getting freaky with his three paramours later on after going through some shit, sure, but he has to go through some shit first.
The violence though, yeah go for it. The characters are used to that kind of death as evident by the first few pages in the books so while it would be jarring to them, it wouldn't be that jarring.
@@userJohnSmith Obviously Robert Jordan made a choice to have the Two Rivers be conservative sexually, but it isn't at all a stretch given the worldbuilding that the culture of the two rivers wouldn't be so repressive.
It's not a medieval world, values based on abrahamic religions aren't a factor, it's much more egalitarian or even matriarchal in places, there's no threat of going to hell for "sin", etc.
I'd even argue that them being open and accepting sexually is a more interesting and unique idea in fantasy than the opposite.
@@David-un4cs Most cultures, wait... All cultures at this state of development are sexually conservative because sex had consequences when you don't have contraceptives. It's universal. It's not more interesting it's ridiculous.
@@userJohnSmith But they are not at that stage of development, this is not medieval or even renaissance without gunpowder(which is the time period that inspired WoT). This is post-apocalyptic. It is canon that they have germ theory and it is clear that some knowledge has survived the Breaking. And except for one instance(which is probably ta'veren shit) further on in the series, there are no ups babies even though there is lots of constant sex so it's clear that they do have at least partially reliable contraceptives.
Also, any time they talk/think about their more conservative rules they phrase it like it's just the way things are done, the "proper" order of things, and so on. It is never talked about like: "what if you have a child out of wedlock?", it is literally never mentioned that there is even a concept of bastards. And since the queen of Andor having a lover is not a scandal and is publically known, and usual practice, it's not really an issue is it? Also, we clearly see, that if there's no need for an alliance, the queen does not need to marry. Any girl child can inherit. If the heir to the throne doesn't have these rules, do you really think peasants would care?
@@ohlookakitty911 I'm talking about the Two Rivers specifically. Outside the backwoods obviously more of the old world survived but these guys don't really even understand the culture of a town literally down the road. Beyond that 3k years in doesn't count as post apocalypse. We aren't living in the past apocalyptic wake of ancient Egypt. The proper way of things implies conservative values and you can't tell me premarital sex isn't shockingly taboo in that community. It's plain in the text and demonstrated by the way the people behave when encountering other cultures and within their own. It's not believable.
My mom is only on book 4 and she’s definitely a book purist lol. My bf who hasn’t read at all but knows about a lot (because I don’t shut up) is really loving the show. Then there’s me who has re-read 10+ times, also enjoying the show.
I think that it’s best to have either finished the book series OR to have gone in blind. Because having the vantage point of completed arcs and plots makes the changes make sooo much sense. Like some characters in “The Slog” are immediately less frustrating because of some of these changes.
The Showrunner always said they were adapting the series as a whole, they are NOT going book by book. And with that in mind, it makes the loss or swap of some details seem insignificant. I don’t think it’s perfect by any means, but it’s a a high 7 to 8/10 to me so far.
I refuse to watch the show until I'm at least past book 3 as I've heard some things up to book 3 are used in season 1 but the main reason is I want to imagine what these characters look sound and are like myself I don't want others ideas pressed into me. Love the content man. Especially the long form content.
Wanting it to be a non-gory family show gives away that you haven't read all of the books. If they started the show on the innocent wonder of the first book, there would be some families in for one hell of a surprise a couple of season in.
Yessss this is why I only let my kid read book one with the understanding that it would be some years before I let him read the rest or watch the show. Even just book 2 compared to book 1, more mature vibes, let alone later.
I just KNOW the sexy trolloc stuff is coming from Daniel
Just a bunch of animals getting savage.
Yes. Yes it is
Robert time does it again, this video is amazing and extends the wheel of time lore well. Love the modern feel the series is taking with microphones replacing the one power.
Definitely it is "separating book from show is liberating". We all want to see what we see when we read because it's perfect for us but it's not going to happen. However however I'd love them to add more proverbs/sayings about Aes Sedai/Dark one/Dragon/Forsaken/Aiel/etc among common people, it really builds the background for main characters to meet the huge outside that WoT is. It's integral for their world view and it's tested against reality, building conflict and revelations
I’m pretty shocked at how accepting all of you seem to be. I just started the books specifically because of all the talk about wot recently and hadn’t heard any criticism or praise of the show. I get far enough to where I felt like I could watch an episode or two, and I was honestly excited, but it just seemed so awful and unfaithful to the characters of the book. I understand speeding through the events (even though the pacing of the book so far seems *perfect* for an episodic series) but I don’t understand just straight up hacking the characters to bits and making them whatever you want.
I was very attached to GoT and the asoiaf series, I felt like this show is more disappointing than season 8 of got. And I don’t even have that much of a connection to the books. I love the story so far and will probably develop a similar connection, I’m just saying… I’m surprised you guys are so accepting lol.
That’s not a bad thing either, I actually wish I weren’t this cynical and could enjoy things that I don’t like, so actually keep it up. Like what you like.
Totally agree with what's said at the 3:00 mark. The show has taken all the youthful wonder out of the EM5. A big part of the book character arcs is watching these innocent kids that have lived fairly carefree lives in an isolated village get thrown out into a both dangerous and wonderous world to grow into adults. Fun badboy Mat has become tragic, morose badboy Mat. Perrin had a wife with a kid on the way that he accidently kills. Egwene and Rand are boning. Ya when they enter a major city it's no big deal. This EM5 is much more worldly, majorly changing the arc.
Ha! Jokes on you, back in 2006 everyone on the boards already KNEW that Bela is actually the Dark One!
I'm gonna need another one of these videos each time a new episode drops.
I'm too busy reading the Earthsea series right now, so I'm just gonna try and piece together the plot of these books and show solely from your videos. So this Thom guy is like a Nickelback singer but in the books he's more like a talented singer, and also the trollocs (which I assume are the big scary monsters) are cursed to be dummy thicc.
I haven't even watched the show. I'm just here for more Baron Zemo.
Peter Jackson took some liberties with the LOTR.
Amazon took huge liberties. Names, places, a hint of the story remains.
I mean, if it was closer to the story, Amazon had a huge fan base that they could build on. As they did it, they have driven the fan base away and provided nothing that I can see that would bring in new people. It was better than the Shannara adaptation. That isn't saying much.
The Trolloc booty requests probably come from Goblin saying that it would be in it.
_YOU'RE GONNA CARRY THAT THING._
If Amazon made the Lord of the rings; Bilbo would be played by a tall blonde woman who serves Morgoth and plans to murder her lesbian lover Gandalf.
The characters are flat the plot cannot develop into anything close to the books. I am sick of politics being jammed into cool ip's
How is this show not woke? What is even your definition of woke?
Woke is all about representaiton, making wahmen strong and all that jazz. This show represents the isolated Two Rivers as a hub of diversity and not a single man has done anything useful in the show. All the cool moments were done by women. That the very definition of woke, add that Egwene is starting to look quite like a Mary Sue and we have it all. (I'm glad Nynaeve didn't get that treatment at least).
2:47 I definitely agree with this guy's opinion, I bet his Twitter account is great too
I can't wait untill these videos get increasingly unhinged with music that gets more and more tense as he looses his mind
He should lay off of that Saidin, it's all fun and games until the reds find you.
I think I love this series! It's always concise and thoughtful reviews of shows I will never watch based on books I will never read!
Please review "The Expanse" soon! 🤣
I agree with you saying that separating your mental image of the books and the shows is liberating
I had to do this with Game of Thrones or my TV screen would be broken by now 💀
Yeah but if I do that it makes the show tacky and dismissable.
The scene where Leto is naked in Dune but it's a Trolloc
So it was stated by the prescient worm; and so it is.
The magic system, integral to the story, was butchered. The two halves of the One Power, Saidin (male) and Saidar (female) are completely ignored or have been made insignificant. Only a man can be the Dragon Reborn. And not because PaTRiaRcHY, but because the male halve of the True Source is tainted by the Dark One as a curse to cause madness in any man who can channel. It is said more than once in the books that "death can not be healed". Yet in the FIRST season they have already broken this important limitation on the One Power.
And Rand's power was so anticlimactic in the final episode. Had to give it to the women at Tarwin's Gap in the battle at Fal Dara. Come on man! Really? Sorry, I was just too let down by all the changes. I could write a short paper on it smh.
Darn he didn't include my favourite comment but I understand why it wasn't featured. The show is trying to hide who is the dragon reborn and my favourite comment was for the best show experience you should only watch the scenes with that character and skip everything else.
I would definitely read the Kafka-esque dragon rewrite.
jake, jake, jake, jake….jake. why wasn’t there more about Paul and his mom
I actually love how we don't know who the dragon reborn is. I think that it's important for the show and for our modern day that it really could be anyone.
"For our modern day" what do you mean by that?
Nope. It can't be anyone? It can only be a male. The reason being that the Dragon Reborn was a male Magic wielder (and his male companions) went mad after trying to close the prison of the Dsrk One. And this is why male magic users are hunted down because of the madness. And why the Dragon Reborn is both loved and feared since he will help to defeat the dark one and might go mad and break the world again in the process.
Unfortunately, political correctness has invaded RJs masterpiece and made the TV show unpalatable.
"For our modern day" - the death flag for any fantasy story.
Why would it be important that it can be anyone? The Dragon Reborn is not a gender. It is a very specific person who got that title on account of their accomplishments in a world war.
If they want to change the Dragon Reborn to a woman, then Lews Therin should also be a woman, because she would be the one that earned the title.. not her gender.
Equality does not mean removing a person's unique perspective or their value as an individual. There are many great characters in the source material. I do not want any of them to be gender swapped or changed to great degree for the sake of someone that did not appreciate them for who they are.. who does not appreciate their gender, or race.
Tearing clothes is an ancient form of expressing grief. In both Greek and ancient Near East literature, those experiencing profound loss frequently are said to have torn their clothes. Lan doing that felt perfectly normal for me.
Then again, I have a graduate degree in Greek and Hebrew, so my nerdiness is probably not the experience of the rest of the US.
I can't trust a man with so many book butts showing and books lying sideways. This book shelf is a crime scene...
The took the Glee out of the Gleeman and the Man out of everyone else
I AM hate watching it. That definitely can be done.
The show is a garbage fire. If you love the books, stay away, unless you like hurting yourself.
Actually yes, it's woke af and said by the same director/producer: Rafe Jundkins.
1-Rand, Perrin and Matt deprived of any of their moments in book 1 if not all of them and also of their character development. On the other hand, Egwene and Nyaneve going super saiyan mode, aoe healing and curing death without any training whatsoever and also stealing moments from the boys.
2-Thom Merrilin a sad edgy fantasy cowboy? Lord Agelmar being an utter incompetent who needs to be saved by 5 not even Aes Sedai after losing his army and getting scolded by his sister.
3-Lews Therrin? portrayed as a complete and utter fool who destroyed the world because he didn't listen to the new invented Amyrlin Seat (a woman oc, because a man can't be the amyrlin seat)... desperation play? losing the war? the prologue? Nothing of it, the age of legends portrayed as a peaceful city which was destroyed by the follishness of the Dragon (which they name "reborn" too btw). It was better to see the red Ajah killing some randoms and Egwene being thrown into the river for no reason whatsoever and of even less importance for the plot.
4-Nyaneve and Egwene being Ta'veren and considered as possible candidates of being the dragon reborn can just be made by an idiot who didn't even read the first chapters of book 1. Equality BS and utter incompetence and lack of comprehension of R.Jordan's story by the director.
5-Saidin and saidar? No, we can't have power discrepancy because women need no men or so they try to portray again and again in the show. This difference gets explained like 200 times in the first book but that must be problematic somehow.
6- 5/6 Fully armed soldiers defeated by single a woman while IN LABOR who btw can cut plate armor like butter with daggers and spears... because reasons... must be because she is so strong and independent that was upgraded to a Marvel superhero level.
There's certainly more cases just named the biggest ones. If this is not woke agenda please explain to me the motivations behind these aberrant changes.
Thom literally yells at Rand to get Mat out of the house and to “run!”
I think the time spent with the Tinkers will be worth it in the long run. For now it feels like too much, but when we get a few books in it's going pay dividends.
But I do agree that they did not trust the source material enough.
Lol, "this show is good" would certainly be a controversial/unpopular opinion.
The problem with cutting the small things like mordeth or rand carrying tham is that it makes the series much more generic and flat in my opinion wot is so good because it is so detailed
A Tv series can never be nearly as detailed as a series of books though
@@rasmusforchhammer9557 I know I know but I just hoped for a bit more
This show is less true to the story than the 80s Dune was.
Hot take: Rand should be played by Ed Sheeran.
I do like looking at Rand, except that the hair is a little much.
But the Rand voice feels lower than Josha’s natural voice (idk for sure of course) and I guess I’d like to be more attracted to his voice 😌
Instead of «I dont like LOOKING AT Rand» u should have written "I dont like Rand..."
It's coarse, and rough
...and irritating and it gets everywhere.
Hot take: The show is half good, half bad, and I'm not sure which one is winning yet
I think these final 3 episodes we'll really see if they've managed to pull it off. It could be awesome or it could be a letdown.
Naw, you’re dead wrong. Woke politics absolutely murdered this show.
It is woke. And the changes to the characters are directly tied to that. The fact you won't acknowledge that as the main problem with the show is pretty sad. Moiraine and Suian being lesbian lovers is a huge tonal shift to those characters and the way they changed Mat is unforgivable. The Wheel of Time was a diverse world forcing that into the Two Rivers does not do justice to the Diverse world that Robert Jordan wrote. Also not developing Rand was terrible writing.
The show is not an adaptation, but a reimagining. Its very little like the actual books
Since my take wasn't included, I'm just going to assume you thought mine was good, actually.
My main problem is that if you changed the names of the characters, places, trollocs, dark one, etc. the series would be nearly indistinguishable from the books and only the megafans would draw parallels and then it would still be vague. They could have just used WOT as inspiration and made a whole differently named series.
The series does a great job of causing the book fans to wonder what the heck is going on most of the time. I cant imagine what it is like for the non-fans. There have been several episodes that not one single aspect of was taken from the books. Im not sure how exactly it can be called "Wheel of Time"
may the ”childhood wonder”-tone stay with you and stock up on candles
I think the funeral scene felt silly for a lot of people because it was supposed to be this big emotional scene but they barely built stepin as a character we should care about. So it was emotionless for me.
I felt very awkward during that scene, not going to lie.
Add on the fact that Lan is one of if not the most stoic characters makes it all the more silly.
I am so sorry you had to read that and I enjoyed it so much. We applaud your suffering through stupid comments to give us the cliff notes.
Yay! My comment made the cut! Now, that's a good day 🍃
Good job, keeping up with all those!
I actually wanted MORE anachronisms. A real costume designer that could mimic what the cover art did-a strange asiatic/western/victorian-era style would have been nice instead of generic fantasy. Also, with the budget they have, they could have afforded better set dressing and costume design. Where did all the money go?
Seriously!! It's so bad...
@@DirtyStringz Just watched the 2nd Season of the Witcher (the first episode)-less budget. But the costuming, and set design is amazing. I won't compare acting and writing-while known actors are expensive, an unknown can break out. The lighting was great-cinematography great, CGI-again, no issues. LESS money.
Rosamund pike cannot be overacting when her face is frozen with botox. I’m finding her performance way too stiff when she summons power 😔
I love watching you look first, confused, then hurt, then upset by a particularly aweful take. All in quick sucession. Suffer for our amusement 😎
Pike sometimes hits the mark, other times misses it by over acting but it’s the constant drawn out breathy voice she uses and the way she’s always holding her hands out to her side that gets under my skin and rolls my eyes. Not that it matters for me anymore, I bailed on the garbage they try to call WoT after ep5...
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It's interesting to see your opinion on some of these hot takes, and I'd be interested to see how your opinion changes as you get further into the series. I'm specifically thinking about your comment on blood and Gore