The beauty of inserting a ring modulator in a feedback loop is that it will destabilize resonant peaks. Along with clipping, ringing feedback, where one resonant frequency sucks up all the energy, is the easiest thing to get out of feedback. Ring modulation will kick any sound off its central resonance, so it prevents any resonance from being too stable. Meanwhile, the delay will tend to enforce continuity, which prevents the sound from going into wide spectrum noise. The "1/3 octave filter" (no different from a graphic equalizer) allows the musician a great deal of control over the results. Really fertile ground for discovering sounds.
The 1/3 octave filter is very different from a graphic equalizer, which only allows attenuation or amplification of frequencies by 12 or 6 dB, whereas this 1/3 octave filter can complete remove frequency bands. Also, this 1/3 octave filter has no neutral setting: even when all bands are at equal levels, strong colourisations occur where the bands overlap and at the centre frequencies of the bands. The original B&K 1/3 octave filter was not designed to use all bandpass filters simultaneously but only one by one. This modified version has an input and output matrix which allows to send the input to all bandpass filters and mix their outputs. This modified filter is essential for the technique that is demonstrated here and the results would be very different when a standard graphic equalizer would have been used.
@@MrSonology ahhh ok thanks for clarifying in re the filter, which sounds more like a resonant filter bank (or maybe not I'll watch your video on the subject!)
I will say that there are a lot of ways to get vaguely similar sounds using reverb feedback, and I expect if you substituted a normal graphic equalizer, you'd get something cool. Without the resonances of that particular filter, you might not get the room-like switching from one tone to another, but even a 6db attenuation will quickly go to silence in a feedback loop.
would love to see that four-channel version of this video--and of course anything else you're willing to impart about some of Jaap Vink's later works (Tide, etc)
Hello Thanos, That's very good to hear! There are many ways to implement/expand this technique, and I will post a video demonstrating an expanded version soon.
@@MrSonology Great I'll be very interested to see an extended version of this. Of course the variables become quickly very complex and in that way exploration becomes really interesting.
@@MrSonology I'm also finding this hugely inspirational for my mixed test equipment / eurorack setup. An expanded patch would be great! Groeten uit Rotterdam!
That's right. An Amplitude Demodulator (AMD) is an envelope follower. An Amplitude Modulator (AMM) is a VCA. A V-FUG (voltage-controlled function generator) is a VCO/LFO. These names were used already at the Institute of Sonology in the 1960s and we stick to them.
I keep coming back to this video for inspiraton on patching my eurorack system! Q: What would be the most apropriate place in the feedback loop to monitor from? Does it even make a difference?
That's a very good question! it is basically up to you and you can try different places: the output of the reverb will give a relatively smooth sound, I personally like to take the outputs of the two ring modulators and send them to the left and right channels of a stereo signal, which sounds more rough. I remember this is what you hear in the video.
That is definitely possible. I have a version in Kyma which is entirely digital and sounds very close to the original. Just use digitaI delays. In Kyma I added a bit of filtered noise to the feedback loop. Listen to this: soundcloud.com/kees-tazelaar/erwachen-heiterer-empfindungen-bei-der-ankunft-auf-dem-lande. A description of the patch in Kyma can be found here: keestazelaar.com/music/e-pur-si-muove/. Good Luck!
The beauty of inserting a ring modulator in a feedback loop is that it will destabilize resonant peaks. Along with clipping, ringing feedback, where one resonant frequency sucks up all the energy, is the easiest thing to get out of feedback. Ring modulation will kick any sound off its central resonance, so it prevents any resonance from being too stable. Meanwhile, the delay will tend to enforce continuity, which prevents the sound from going into wide spectrum noise. The "1/3 octave filter" (no different from a graphic equalizer) allows the musician a great deal of control over the results. Really fertile ground for discovering sounds.
The 1/3 octave filter is very different from a graphic equalizer, which only allows attenuation or amplification of frequencies by 12 or 6 dB, whereas this 1/3 octave filter can complete remove frequency bands. Also, this 1/3 octave filter has no neutral setting: even when all bands are at equal levels, strong colourisations occur where the bands overlap and at the centre frequencies of the bands. The original B&K 1/3 octave filter was not designed to use all bandpass filters simultaneously but only one by one. This modified version has an input and output matrix which allows to send the input to all bandpass filters and mix their outputs. This modified filter is essential for the technique that is demonstrated here and the results would be very different when a standard graphic equalizer would have been used.
@@MrSonology ahhh ok thanks for clarifying in re the filter, which sounds more like a resonant filter bank (or maybe not I'll watch your video on the subject!)
I will say that there are a lot of ways to get vaguely similar sounds using reverb feedback, and I expect if you substituted a normal graphic equalizer, you'd get something cool. Without the resonances of that particular filter, you might not get the room-like switching from one tone to another, but even a 6db attenuation will quickly go to silence in a feedback loop.
This is the best video on youtube
Beautiful cybernetic music
Extraordinario. Gracias. (Csound, Puerdata, Supercollider, et cetera...)
would love to see that four-channel version of this video--and of course anything else you're willing to impart about some of Jaap Vink's later works (Tide, etc)
Super cool to see this studio in action again! Thanks for sharing! Greetings from Brazil!
Hello! This is an incredible resource of information, thank you! I can follow all the steps with my Serge modular system.
Hello Thanos, That's very good to hear! There are many ways to implement/expand this technique, and I will post a video demonstrating an expanded version soon.
@@MrSonology Great I'll be very interested to see an extended version of this. Of course the variables become quickly very complex and in that way exploration becomes really interesting.
@@MrSonology I'm also finding this hugely inspirational for my mixed test equipment / eurorack setup. An expanded patch would be great! Groeten uit Rotterdam!
really enjoy this series! they are very well done, thank you so much for sharing them
Excellent sounds and excellent explanation. Thank you.
The feedback stabilizer patch described around minute 8 is essentially identical to a compressor.
Fascinating, thankyou!
thank you so much for this, extremely inspiring. been going down a roland kayn rabbit hole recently, so this definitely hits the spot.
Glad to hear that this video inspires you. It would have been nice though if Kayn had given Vink the credits he deserves.
Beautiful!
Good job explaining Kees :)
It's my job Alberto 🙂
Very cool. I don't understand what an amplitude demodulator is, though. I'm wondering if an envelope follower might do the same thing.
That's right. An Amplitude Demodulator (AMD) is an envelope follower. An Amplitude Modulator (AMM) is a VCA. A V-FUG (voltage-controlled function generator) is a VCO/LFO. These names were used already at the Institute of Sonology in the 1960s and we stick to them.
I keep coming back to this video for inspiraton on patching my eurorack system!
Q: What would be the most apropriate place in the feedback loop to monitor from? Does it even make a difference?
That's a very good question! it is basically up to you and you can try different places: the output of the reverb will give a relatively smooth sound, I personally like to take the outputs of the two ring modulators and send them to the left and right channels of a stereo signal, which sounds more rough. I remember this is what you hear in the video.
wow!
I'm wondering if this is possible to replicate with a modular system (3U) and without a tape recorder. Is it possible mr Sonology?
That is definitely possible. I have a version in Kyma which is entirely digital and sounds very close to the original. Just use digitaI delays. In Kyma I added a bit of filtered noise to the feedback loop. Listen to this: soundcloud.com/kees-tazelaar/erwachen-heiterer-empfindungen-bei-der-ankunft-auf-dem-lande. A description of the patch in Kyma can be found here: keestazelaar.com/music/e-pur-si-muove/. Good Luck!
getting great results with my 3u system - doepfer a-114 ring mod and 4ms DLD leading the way. cheers 🖤
Deee-licious.