The Perfect Wall w/ Carlisle CCW 705 Peel & Stick Housewrap
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- For more info visit my blog at www.mattrisinge...
What's the best wall system for a house? See my intro to Joe Lstiburek's "The Perfect Wall" system.
Best, Matt Risinger
Risinger Homes in Austin, TX
Good way to build. I remember seeing a similar system I saw on youtube for the cold climate in Alaska. I think it was called the remote wall system or something like that and remote stood for Residential Exterior Membrane Outside-insulation TEchnique and this was like 5 or six years ago. The perfect wall system reminded me of that system, but there system had foam insulation on the outside and also insulation on the inside and drywall, so a little bit different. Very interesting for sure, thanks for the video.
Matt where is the video about installing windows with this system? Great work!
Yes I want to see that too
Very interesting. I look forward to more videos on this.
we do this style of wall lots in Canada. just make sure your installers are good and everything works well.
I've been doing that since '02, first house was in Alabama. Not stick framed however, CMU's, grouted full and re-enforced every 2' horizontally and vertically. Anti-Tornado, when the roof is mechanically connected right down two stories to the slab. The Polyiso went on in 2 layers, to overlap joints. Brick ties using 3 1/2" deck screws attached it (with glue) to the concrete block wall. Then a conventional brick facade making the whole wall about 15" thick. I've been under the impression that the polyiso panels are themselves a class II vapor barrier. I'm about to do the same thing to our stick framed stucco house here in California, to isolate the stucco inside the conditioned space, along with the existing framing. The problem with polyiso is it off gases, losing it's effectiveness after 75 years or so and it's a petro product. As it gets to 4" thick, you have to figure out how to support whatever siding is going to cover it too. Using compressed rock wool solves the off gassing problem, but enhances the siding support problem because the R value is less. Whatever we come up with, has to pass the Cat 5 (160 mph) wind test. One layer of the insulation should be uninterrupted, preferably the layer next to the inner wall. If that were only 1", another 3 1/2 inches of insulation could be installed in a steel stud wall, balloon framed if the house has two stories, or more. (A plan I'm working on now uses 3 floors of 330 ft2 each)
Someone have any better ideas on how to do that?
This looks like great execution of a design by a well-informed architect. I am sort of soured on foam plastic insulations though, I would prefer mineral wool.
Do all those different types of adhesives off-gas to the interior or weaken over time? (Wrap primer, seam sealer, flex flashings.)
Looking forward to more.
To clear up, I believe the Lstiburek "500 year wall" concept refers to cmu block wall with drainage cavity and masonry veneer. And I don't know how literal he meant it; there are a lot of environmental and material factors you're counting on.
Great videos.
I love all your videos, but when it comes down to IAQ and building science per se then I have to wonder about what the long-term impact on IAQ might be from the CCW 705 primer and adhesive given (other than the OSB) it is sealed into the envelope with any outgassing having nowhere to go but into the living space itself.
This method of using a sticky membrane on the sheathing and only outside insulation is what the PERSIST method does also.
-No real drainage plane - you should add something before the insulation
-Foil faced insulation - you get a little more R value than XPS, but aren't you worried about trapping water because it's such a vapor retarder, or does that not matter because of the sticky membrane....I'm referring to humidity inside the house moving to the outside.
Great video Matt, nice job. What about sound inside the home.? Will it be more bounce of sound waves without insulation.?
Joe, This house with no drywall won't be too sound proof. It's a 1400 SF house that's really designed for 1-2 people. Currently it's slated for a single man, but he's assuming it might house two in the near future. Matt
I really can't understand how you did the roof system. The metal roof manufacturers want the membrane to be directly below their panels, not way down at the roof deck. How did you get around this?
Hi Matt, a couple of quick questions. I've seen you make a few different videos with different housewraps. Can you share with us which housewrap is your favorite best in terms of durability, ease of installation, and price ratio? Also, how does this compare to another favorite of yours the German made Delta Vent SA housewrap? Thanks for your time! I always appreciate your well-presented videos.
Michael, I've used different types for different installations. My usual go-to is Tyvek Commercial Wrap or Commercial D (the krinkly version). These work for 90%+ of the homes built in America. However, the more exposure the house has the more "bulletproof" the wrap needs to be. In this video you're seeing a house with no overhangs so the housewrap needs to be 100% watertight. Carlisle CCW705 is the choice for that condition. Delta Vent SA is also great as it air seals better than Tyvek but can be more difficult to source. Match your housewrap choice to your goals and to your budget/conditions onsite. Best, Matt
Very interesting and great work Matt. Can't wait to see more videos, particularly the window install and HVAC design. What's the foundation design? How tight are you trying to get the house? Will you do a blower door test? Am I correct in understanding that these building methods work in any building zone by tweaking the materials to the design criteria?
Yes this will work in any Climate in North America, you would only vary the thickness of insulation. Stay tuned for more on the other questions... Matt
+Matt Risinger
Hello Matt,
It is not usable for any other part of the world then dry desert. Problem to have this in cold climate is that you put the vapour barrier on outside (which is fine in texas) but in cold and humid conditions ? No vapour barrier protecting the wood framing from inside moisture Vapour sources?
Only way how to possibly make this work is to use a forced air ventilation system with dehumidifiers and thermal energy recovery. I know there is AC in Texas and no heating needed.
6 inches insulation is almost nothing for any part of US or the world that actually gets winter so the energy requirements would be horrible you need to have at least 16 inches or 40 cm of high quality insulation on the ceiling and angled roof parts and 10 inches 20cm+ on the walls (rigid foam is crap frankly as far as thermal performance)
On one hand I see some exciting stuff coming US but is some areas like thermal insulation thickness and quality it feels like you are lacking behind. Love the channel great stuff but the 500 year house and this video made me laugh this is going to fall apart in 20 years. Metal clad stick on insulations like this have a real life expectancy of 20 to 30 years then the putty will loose the flexibility and start to tear the stick on membrane.
Another thing MOLD. This is going to become in 10 years a cold nightmare. Most building in Europe have ETICS system which is basically what you have there with ventilated facade from sheet metal instead of stucco.
Big time rigid foam insulation craze 10 years ago with EU subsidies. Now when we rip off while remodel the whole area under rigid foam is black.
It is not possible to make perfect contact between the insulation and the foil air gets trapped there with temperature changes condensation and mold will start.
Not a good idea Put on vapour barrier and airtight the inside as well.
Hi, Matt - How did you handle the bathroom exterior walls for this house? In a JL 'perfect wall' house with no insulation in the studs, I am puzzled about how to waterproof a shower with one exterior wall. If I do the standard Kerdi mat or Redguard waterproof treatments, isn't that equivalent to installing vinyl wallcovering with no place for water/moisture to dry out of the studs behind the shower? Keep up the great blogs and videos. By the way, Carlisle showed a photo of this house in their lecture on the building envelope at their recent symposium. Thanks. Patty
Patty, Cool to hear that Carlisle showed a pic of this house! So, on the outside wall issue. 1. It's not as big of a concern because you don't have insulation in the stud cavity. If you got some small leak or humidity the studs would absorb that water and could dry. 2. To be safe I would drill a series of 3/4" holes horizontally between the studs starting at 2 stud bays to the right and left of the shower. That way you'd get easy drying and a clear path for moisture to move from more to less. I think this is a very minor threat in a perfect wall house. I didn't have any outside walls in my showers of this house. Best, Matt
Hey Matt, love your videos! I'm looking into building a 3 story 12 Container home, and I'm planning on stuccoing the exterior...I shouldn't need that primer w/ that peel & stick should I? Although, I think I'ma have to weld the metal lath on...
Can you use this in a hurricane zone 1 or 2? I live near south padre island. So I’m curious if an exterior insulation would be a good option in my climate and windstorm.
the smile at the end had me rolling ahahaha
Was the CCW overlapped or just placed side by side and caulked? How would the CCW compare to tyvek wrap? Great videos, very informative.
hippo potamus a 3” minimum overlap is industry standard. With sealant detail at water leading edges. Top and bottom if sheet is ran horizontally. I seal all overlaps no matter.
Woah. You looked 15 years younger ten years ago.
Would this have worked using the Delta vent system? No caulk with that, self sticking, excellent window system. Would it be more expensive, quicker, etc.?
Chuck
The Delta system is a vapor open WRB so it's not ideal for this application. It would compare in cost to CCW 705 pretty closely. Matt
I have a question about your MAGNIFICENT build that relates to my tiny house I am currently working on. What did you do about attaching the siding and polyiso through the weather/air barrier and into the OSB and studs? Was there an issue with nail penetrations breaking the air barrier and causing leakage, or do you have a solution that I'm unaware of like the membrane acting self sealant or butyl tape where there are penetrations? Thank you. This info would help my thought process a lot!
Peel and stick is a rubberized membrane which will seal itself around your nails. No need to worry about that.
Dear Matt, could you please recommend similar materials like this peel-and-stick Carlisle membrane for us here in Europe? I remember you presenting a Swiss company ...Siga or smtg... do they have such materials?
I know this is an old video, but can I replace the house wrap on my house with this and expect similar results if I seal my ceiling and do something like aeroseal?
Why would you want a drainage plane between the WRB and the foam insulation? Wouldn't it compromise the effectiveness of the insulation, however minor, in order for it to function? The drainage plane should be between the siding and the insulation. Love the uninterrupted continuous insulation walls to roof. Deals with thermal bridging much better than double walls or advanced framing and greatly simplifies those difficult wall to floor or roof transitions. I assume you add eaves later? Any framing issues attaching through all that foam without compromising it?
Buzz, The idea of the perfect wall is that the structure of the house is totally inside the water/air/vapor barrier. Then, the insulation goes on the outside of that. Just like adding a sweater on a cold day. The insulation is totally exterior. The other major benefit of the outside insulation is that the WRB (CCW 705 in this case) is fully protected from the thermal extremes. In effect, that CCW 705 is INSIDE the house when it comes to temperature. It really is the "Perfect Wall". Hope I addressed your questions. Matt
Matt Risinger
Matt Risinger I really enjoy your videos but I'm afraid you didn't answer my questions at all. I understand the perfect wall concept (I have been reading about Joe Lstiburek's ideas since he came up with the airtight drywall approach) so it is not necessary to dumb it down for me with the sweater analogy. I am also think I understand the importance of a drainage plane. I was questioning the placement of it with your comment about how the seam sealant provided a bit of drainage plane. With all that insulation OUTSIDE of the vapor barrier there shouldn't be any condensation issues. But moisture can get past siding so there should be a drainage plane between the siding and the foam board, not the insulation and the WRB. I have plans to construct a home using a similar approach and I am still trying to work out some of the details, particularly wall to masonry foundation transition and framing details for building eaves and other roof overhangs that will also be outside of the WRB, with minimal disruption of it. Hope to see some more videos from you on some of that.
With this building method it is best practice to have 2 drainage planes. The only thing I would avoid is using foil faced foam because it's a vapor retarder and too risky in regards to condensation forming. Just use XPS. Hope that clears everything up.
@ 77Avadon77 - With no exterior insulation, how did you solve the issue of thermal bridging of the studs? You can't without it.
Where are all the rest of the videos or this house build. So many questions with no answers.
How did you handle the different in thickness between the window and 4inch insulation?
How do you get this insulation and cladding to stay on without puncturing the water barrier and how well will this hold up to wind storm?
Fasteners do puncture the water barrier, but rubberized asphalt like the Carlisle product he's using are designed to self-heal around the fasteners.
Sq. ft of home? have you run a manual J yet? I am thinking about using JL's cmu 500 year design on a house soon. why no roof overhang?
This is about 1450 Sq Ft. Man J showed 1100 sq ft per ton. We are using a Mitsubishi three head mini-split system to heat/cool the house. All overhangs are added later after the insulation. Matt
Great work, thanks!
What the heck? You better go back and edit in the build show line...
This house won't last 500 years. At least not the insulation. Insects, particularly carpenter ants, LOVE (!!!) foil coated polyiso panels. My house, built in 1985, was built with half inch poyiso panels on the outside, just like you advertising here. 20 years later, carpenter ants had drilled half inch wide channels between the foils up two stories all the way to the roof. All around the house. They love these panels! And the theory of carpenter ants requiring a moist environment is a myth. Bone dry. My guess is that they love the warmth to hibernate during the winter. For years I was wondering why in the spring my house would become infested with lethargic ants. Once I started ripping the siding off, I knew why. Unless you live in a desert somewhere, I STRONGLY advise you putting polyiso panels on the outside of your walls!
Seems like a lot of toxic, petroleum-based products.
Polyiso loses 80% of its insulation value over time.
Please post the evidence.
Go look it up for yourself!!
Ok, I have....no such thing.
I did find one about mineral wool board having 80% loss from "wind washing"....and that was on comparing polyiso to it.
"Polyiso, it turns out, can lose as much as 25% of its R-value when the temperature drops." That's the best you're going to get.
Personally I don't like Polyiso because it's a vapor retarder. I just knew your comment was outrageous.