With apologies for the delay - this has been a manic month! I’ll not set a deadline for part 3, but the plan is to make it bigger, better and longer (like all things should be). Next up will be Wakanda Forever, after which I’ll probably be cancelled for racism.
I actually quite liked the first one. Not a master peace by any means but with some cultural value and fitting for the mcu part of the start of decline
@@austin9568AuraMasterDX Seriously, Galadriel reminds me of playing Mass Effect and picking only the renegade options which leads to being a random aggressive asshole to everyone. Except with none of the charm and humor.
“Why does a pie smell good and a turd stinks? A pie smells good because it looks towards the future and friends and the joy it will spread, while a turd stinks because it looks towards the past, holding onto old miseries remembered only by itself.” _~Biggledick Bagpipes_
Speaking as an African....your segment on diversity is so well thought out.... it's explained so simply and I agree with everything that was said.. 100 percent
I had that complaint right up until the point stuff did happen, and it made everything so much worse. At least when they’re pissing about doing nothing they can’t, I dunno, have an old man turn a key to flood a trench to activate a volcano. If that’s what happens, give me nothing!
@@TheLittlePlatoon Agreed. I think it would have been better if they kept the story small-scaled. Would have been better if they kept the story almost like a feel-good hangout movie. Instead, they just start rushing the plot with contrivance and plot hole after contrivance and plot hole
You mentioned Game of Thrones as doing the race/population thing right, and there's a very good example of that from the second season. A character is introduced, a merchant prince of the city of Qarth, where Daenarys and her party have arrived seeking shelter. In the books, this man is a native of Qarth and so very pale, whereas in the show he's played by a black actor. The show actually acknowledges and incorporates the difference, by slightly altering the character's backstory. He mentions that he was born in the Summer Islands (established in the books as having dark-skinned people) and came to Qarth as a young immigrant. This exposition makes sense because the entire point of his character is that he's trying to string Daenarys along and craft ties with her; emphasising that he knew what it was like to be an underpowered newcomer to the city serves the themes and the plot. This is the best of all worlds -- a colour-blind casting for a character for whom race doesn't really matter, while also acknowledging the setting lore and doing so in a way that actually *enhances* the character and fits perfectly with his purpose in the narrative.
@@Fridaey13txhOktober as long as Race Swapping is done not in aggression or through malice, I do believe it's fine in live action. It's always good to take the best actor, no matter what race they are. Animation and the like don't really have an excuse for race swapping, since you know.... it's drawings.
@@apuffball5754 I'm tired of you oafs that yield and give concessions. There is no 'best of both worlds,' either, as one world is entirely sh*t and the other world isn't.
@@brownehawk7744 was that a reply to the fella that replied to me, the original poster or just me? if it was to me, I am currently trying to get a college degree for writing so I can make my own things and (hopefully) sell stories. fingers crossed
It's so mind-boggling how the writers think we should be sympathetic towards galadriel and the harfoots. The absolute most sympathetic character is Adar who we should think is the villain.
At least Adar is some character and has a mission. I felt some sympathy for him, even ifs hes leading an army of orcs. The overpowered alpha-chad-female galadriel who achieves anything that she wants within a second, breaking any rules is not even a character. They have overtuned the alpha-alpha-alpha woman so much, they even mocking feminims wit it, because every human being with some contact to reality sees this is no rolemodel but a monstrosity.
I completely agree! I enjoyed the aesthetics of this production. Having enjoyed the books it was enjoyable to see it dramatised, however, the character development, and lacklustre writing mitigated that enjoyment, I prefer these videos exponentially 😁
One thing about the prison break is that it shows how messed up the power levels are. Galadriel can take down a snow troll by herself with easy, meanwhile, half a dozen elves aren't able to kill one Worg even though they have spears, chains, knives and sticks laying around.
You obviously don’t understand what a “badass” she is. She, above all others , is a badass. All the stupid men just slow her down. If they’d get out of her way she’d be able to save the world single handedly.
By trying to be ‘all inclusive’ they’ve truly excluded the people they’re trying to represent the most. I love Tolkiens work but you’re right, standing back at looking at it for entertainment value shows you how soulless the show is still.
The main problem with this show is not the race exclusivity - this is just bad storytelling. But there is a problem that ruins the show completely - Sauron is actually portrayed as a good guy. They say he is evil. We know he is evil if we watched the movies or read the books. But in the show he is good. He does not corrupt Numenoreans, they are already corrupted when he appears. He does not lie, kill or overpower anyone and anything. Galadriel as she is portrayed is evil, she kills, betrays, lies, manipulates and she is utterly stupid and delusional in her relations with Sauron. And she has to be the protagonist. But Sauron is a man, not luring, evil, manipulative demigod. No, he saves her life, helps her and the "good" Numenoreans in battle, helps the elves - he does not lure them, just helps them. And the showrunners even create some vague romantic relation and tension between Sauron and Galadriel turning the show into soap opera. That romance enforces his humanity as he is just a nice man in bad company. And there is not possible consistent way to evolve the story from this point. As the main antagonist, the reason for the story, does not exist in the show.
@@nick3175 , I fully agree with you: if the narrative of how Sauron met Galadriel just by chance, will be allowed to stand, it's perfectly absurd and awful. But like our host I am still not perfectly convinced that this is the correct narrative. I think that it will become apparent in later seasons that Sauron manipulated everybody and especially Galadriel. He probably engineered his meeting with Galadriel for his own goals. He is a powerful maia sorcerer after all, who is very adept in manipulating and corrupting people's minds. He is called Sauron, the deceiver for a reason. That said, it is still ridiculous to show us Sauron as a completely average human guy with human ambitions and emotions. The show is a complete train wreck!
@@sabineb.5616 Well, they can twist the plot as they want, but what they showed already makes any twist almost consistently impossible, as Sauron did literally nothing to convince, manipulate, lie, lure anybody. Galadriel was the driving force for the plot, and she was not driven by clear motivation and goals, but by unprovoked emotions, stupidity and delusions - this is what they showed. Sauron did not manipulate her, as he did nothing, even if we assume he somehow organized the shipwreck meeting. He was just nice, helpful guy, who has crush on Galadriel, but what he does and says did not provoke anyone and anything. Numenoreans hated elves before his appearance. Mordor would be created even without him. In fact the Numenorean army almost prevented this absurd event. Rings could be crafted even without him, as he offered only very basic knowledge at very unconvinced way. Elves decided they will make 3 rings, but not a crown for example. And where are the rings for the men and the dwarfs? As in the true lore Sauron crafted only one ring.
@@sabineb.5616 Also, indeed, they can just say Sauron put spell on Galadriel and that is why she was evil. That may work on first side. But if you think about it, there are two issues. First, she almost prevented the absurd creation of Mordor. Second - if Sauron is so powerful that he can enchant even great elf as Galadriel, he does not need rings, he can just force anybody to do anything. So we will get the antagonist, but the entire story will make no sense.
I agree. They've actually robbed the different people of the ethnicity and culture, which Tolkien created for them. There were so many opportunities to show how much diversity can be found in Tolkien's work, and highlight it's importance. I actually find the showrunner's idea of diversity quite offensive, because it is not representative of our world at all.
The "Essay on Diversity" portion of this is by far the most fair and well articulated explainer I have seen regarding this issue on either side of the aisle. I feel like you breaking that out into its own video outside of RoP would be a great way to further this conversation rationally. Overall through truly exceptional work here.
@@matthewoehler2472 It perhaps was just an issue or topic that he was more passionate about. The video has time stamps so one can just skip to the next topic if desired.
Nothing quite like curling up under the covers after getting home from plowing snow all night, and listening to a man rip apart a multi-billion dollar company’s faults and failures😮💨 it’s like therapy only free🔥
"The elves cry over cutting trees" What are their bows made of? What are their arrows made of? What are their buildings made of? What are their boats made of? The mind boggles.
@@hueghh3775 Yea I've got a feeling the reason they fall over may have something to do with how strong they are but I've not finished my doctorate yet. That said, it was the most Tolkienian thing I've ever seen
Your essay on diversity is such a great, insightful way to explain why it's wrong to force faux-diversity everywhere. These writers, living where they live just... kind of. don't know any better. If a show is not as they see through their high-rise apartment window in a metropolitan city - it must be made to that likeness.
They say, write what you know. If you don’t know cultural homogeneity, then maybe don’t write about homogenous peoples and countries, or maybe do some research. Otherwise, you’d do much better writing a believable and authentic cyberpunk or space adventure, or in a different fantasy world where cultural diversity is represented in ways other than skin color.
@@mariecarie1 it seems writers dont know anything about LoTR, about it's history, about European history , or even about modern world. and yet feel the need to educate us - unwashed masses - about life death and everything in between
I would also add that Americans, at least coast elites, cannot understand ethnical and national differences of the rest of a world. They look at everybody through their universalist, lockean, propositional nation-tinted lenses, which is not how the world works. And that seeped through the whole Anglosphere because instead of the British Empire we have the American Empire. All of this is showing here, and for somebody who doesn't subscribe to this universalist ideology, it looks jarring and ridiculous.
As much as we'd like to blame the writers here... I don't think the forced diversity and failed world building is their fault. At least, not in this way (others for sure, particularly the elementary level dialogue). This problem comes down to the casting director and staff, and everyone that had a bite on the casting process. Which typically doesn't involve the writing staff, unless they specifically wrote a part with racial bias in mind. Granted that they wouldn't have likely done any better since all the people in these departments come from the same places, and carry the same biases, but we can't just land everything at the writers' feet. There's plenty of blame for shit production to go around.
What I love about this deconstruction is this series is that you actually point out the good stuff this series actually does, but you also take apart the near-infinite number of flaws in the series in an entertaining and insightful manner. I'm definitely looking forward to the next part. One of the rare channels where a 2 hour video feels like 30 minutes. Great content.
It kind of makes me laugh how often the show refers to her as "commander of the northern armies", yet the only elven soldiers we ever see, in the entire first season, are the six guys who end up mutinying and abandoning her because she's psychotic and was about to leave one of them to die. So where are these armies? Hell, Eregion looks like it has a population of what, like 15? You see the four main elves, a scribe, a couple of background smiths, and ... that's it. You don't see any other elves at all in the CAPITAL of the elven kingdom. Hell, maybe those six guys WERE the "northern armies". Nameless Elf #1-3 were Northern Army #1, while Nameless Elf #4-6 were Northern Army #2.
Would you be willing to post "An Essay on Diversity" as a standalone video to make easy sharing of the amazingly well articulated idea. I feel many of us have had that sentiment, but haven't been able to exactly communicate it and I feel your version is spot on for sharing and discussion of the topic with very little, if any, "toxicity".
Good idea! I’ll probably stick it on my second channel, though, as it’s where excerpts and shorter videos go. (I think I the link is in the description.)
“The sea is always right!” has been stuck in my head for weeks now. And giving me a good laugh every time I remember it. 👌🏻 What truly irks the English/Writing Major in me is that this line could work… IF the people of Númenor worshipped an oceanic deity and considered the waters to be a manifestation of this god and his will. THEN the Númenoreans would have a distinct cultural characteristic. They revere a powerful deity, but one that isn’t especially merciful or concerned with human affairs. “My wife drowned… The sea is always right.” translates to, “The god takes or spare who he wills, and who are we to question him?” The line itself would still sound ridiculous, but only to in-universe foreigners and viewers of the show who are unfamiliar with the context. When the context is understood, it becomes almost painfully sad. “The sea is always right” is a line of resigned acceptance. These people respect their god. But he’s not one they can truly love, because he expresses no personal love for his worshippers.
What bother's me about this is at this point (in the books anyways, given this is before the forging of the rings, long before the decline of the Numenoreans) the Numenoreans were actually on a first name basis with Ulmo, Osse and Uinen. What that means is they were friendly with the Vala (god/archangel/primordial ruler) of the waters and his two liutenants Osse & Uinen (who are a couple and rule over various aspects of the seas). At this point in their history they still are actually on a first name basis with Osse and Uinen, which means that when there is a storm (and Osse likes causing storms, he likes the racket) they can call upon Uinen (his wife and the only person who could calm him down) and that will settle the sea. Tolkien states that the Numenoreans held the two in equal reverence with the actual Valar. The whole "The sea is always right" business doesn't work because they were on a first name basis with the people who actually ran the sea and caused the storms. The other one that bothers me is the show having two Durins at the same time. The reason that doesn't work is Tolkien makes it very clear that the ancient fathers of the dwarves will reincarnate from time to time and use their ancient names again and rule their own houses for a time. This means that Durin III and Durin IV aren't father and son or successive kings like the Edwards and Henrys of England or the Louis' and Phillips of France. They're the same person reincarnated again. That bugs me because Tolkien makes that very clear in his writings and it's another example of this show completely throwing everything out for the sake of their own ideas.
Literally all they had to do was have those characters say it softly and solemly, along with them losing a sailor or two. That alone would've made it make sense even without more context for the normal audience who would just see it as "ah, it's a sort of quick acknowledgement that the sea controls who lives and dies, therefore "the sea is always right" both when they survive and when they die at sea, it's part of their culture." Instead, them screaming it like it was a battle cry makes it sound stupid.
The deity you are talking about is Osse, and the way their relationship is described in the Silmarillion is that the Numenorians love him but do not trust him, because he enjoys violence and storms and once was talked into joining Morgoth, but was talked out of it by the other deity, Uinen, his female counterpart.
Your voice and accent are honey to the ears, and your hindsights are always reflected and well articulated. As a french, giving such praises to a brit is quite exceptionnal "believe that ! " I'm glad I discovered you when you did that first open bar with the Drinker, that was an easy subscribing. Wishing you good luck for the new life as full time content creator :)
@@TheLittlePlatoon I believe that’s a triple compliment since he complimented and complimented as a *Uuuah* 🤮 French and THEN complimented a Brit as a *oh god help me* a French
This just reminds me of when I was writing fanfiction a long time ago and several of the issues mentioned here were things that I worried about back then: every character uses similar speech patterns (and it's one that is probably also not even really in character for any of them), there's no way to tell one location from another except for set pieces in architecture or geography because the people living there sure don't have a cohesive identity, disjointed "oh no, I forgot that this part is important, better have someone mention it" exposition, and so on... And if a teenager who was not a skilled, or at least not experienced, enough writer to stand on his own two literary legs, could identify these issues and at least attempt to do something about it, how are people in a billion dollar production, including people whose entire career is literally dependent on them being a better writer than I was... Well, how are they making the same basic mistakes I did, only a larger scale?
Perhaps it's deliberate? I mean never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence... but... Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
@@ArticulateDegenerate Yeah, I'm not attributing anything to anything, I'm just asking. Like, there is a reason "professional quality" is seen as superior to amateur work, but here... It's not.
@Druid of Scosglen Sorry to hear about your wife, but if you think it could be a sort of therapy, I think you should go for it. You don't even have to share it with anyone if you feel it's not good enough, you could even just delete it as soon as your done. Just write it for your own sake. I know my old notes from back when I used to write are 90% stuff that I never shared with anyone, but sometimes I just felt like writing a thing. Even if I knew it to be garbage when looking at it afterwards, it was still worth putting pen to paper at the time just to get the words out there in some form. Even one that never reached anyone else in the end. Besides, look at it this way: Even if you're not a great writer so you also get stuck in those kinds of writing pitfalls. As long as you actually acknowledge that these issues exist and at least make an attempt to correct them, you can't possibly do worse than the writers of Rings of Power. ;)
@@ArticulateDegenerate Global Marxism to destroy the West and usher in a more global government. Why do you think all this crap only comes from media owned by billionaires who want to expand their businesses on a more global scale? Agenda 2030 started in 2020 with covid. There's no surer way to destroy a society than Marxism. It's quite literally designed to do so. All these huge media companies are hoping to be first in line, and their leaders get "benefits" for pushing things in that direction right now.
You hit on something I often think when I see bad writing or a terrible comedy set and off the top of my head (okay this is subjectiver) I can think of so many better things, far funnier or far better plot points etc (especially for game of thrones last few seasons... jesus....)that I end up saying to myself "someone got paid for this! this is their job and THIS is what they produced, and got paid for..... unbelievable. I need to get into this business"
Notice how In the Lord of the Rings, where there are also multiple storylines happening simultaneously, but there is same amount of rising tension In each of them? In the two towers Helm's Deep and Isengard are happening simultaneously. In Rings of Power these is a volcano eruption and a tree branch falling on a little girl happening simultaneously
Boromir's death may be my favorite scene in the trilogy. So well acted, just loaded with emotion and tension. Boromir's determination his resilience make for a powerful redemptive moment. And the look of cruel relish on Lurtz's face as he's about to point blank kill Boromir is amazingly well done.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I play your videos while I fall asleep. I’m a lifelong insomniac, and your videos are the perfect blend of humor, information, and snark, delivered in a smooth voice/accent at a consistent volume. It’s incredibly soothing, like an opinionated, insistent literary lecture merged with a bedtime lullabye.
My my... Your part on diversity and geography is so spot on. Something I tried to explain about diversity in fantasy but could never really put into words.
Something that always pissed me off about Elrond offending Durin because he doesn't note how time passes for mortals, is that Elronds own brother became a mortal. I'd think after losing his brother and never getting to see him again due to where Elves and humans end up that Elrond would know how time passes
Random lore question: isn’t it implied that eventually everything will be reunited and rebuilt after the end of the world, so hypothetically humans and elves would reunite?
@@bencarlson4300 Yes in the Second Music(aka creation round 2) everyone is believed to be reunited (Men & Elves & Dwarves etc) and the “Marring” of Arda by Melkor/Morgoth will be healed. All this is supposed to happen after the Dagor Dagorath (although Tolkien is a bit vague about the whole affair)
On the elf diverity part, Just Some Guy made some points on why it would not make sense in some of his videos about LoTR and RoP. One was that there would not be enough generations of elves for big changes to apear.
That is an argument that occured to me as well. Considering the unaging properties of elves and their low fertility, evolution in an adaptive sense would take pretty long IF there is some faction killing the elves none stop and therefore reducing the chance of older generations (like thousands of jears older) mixing with younger generations. Otherwise we would have a society like valinorian elves, which is effectively an insane gerontocracy, meaning eg. 99,99% of the population is older than 500 years. Ether Valinor is absolutely overcrowded by now or joung elves are very rare. This also reduces the effectivity of evolutional processes since it would be very likely those young elves would find hundrets of jears older mates from oftentimes much older generations, preventing or at least prolonging evolutional adaptation to an insane degree. Another point would be that elves, as far as I know, in Tolkiens universe cant get sick. Cancer seems to be none existant for them. If geographical differences though don't affect the survivability of elves (or at least not nearly as much as us frail humans) the evolutional pressure is further reduced. I am not saying, that the show should take those musings as a fact and therefore not include PoC for elvish characters. You could just go with Platoons line of thought and make the different tribes of elves opticaly distinct from one another. Since those tribes intermingled in Valinor to a certain extend you could see every shade of skincolour in noldorian elves. From what we have seen so far though the vast majority or the original aperance of the noldorian elven folk seems to be fair. Just some thoughts on the different physiology of elves an humans. PS: please be kind on an foreigner writing in English. This topic is a literal minefield and possible misuse of some terms is unintended (though I would love hear of those to better my skills) cheers
Glad you brought up the 2 kids and their reunion with their mother from the two towers. I always thought a story about how the mother survived the attack on the village and her journey to helms deep would be interesting.
The mistake was watching it. By viewing it you are already giving them what they want. If they get what they want from you by doing it this way, you are really telling them that they are doing it right and only incentivize them to do it more. If people just stop watching and paying for incredibly bad stories, they will necessarily eventually stop being made. They are only being made because you watch it.
"If the world-building is honest, apolitical, non-allegorical, sensible, consistent, and faithful of its source material." Right on the spot. Couldn't agree more. And lol Sailor Twink and his bond of seamen. LOOOL
The thing is that, if an adaptation takes some liberties but is loyal to the spirit of the original, it really earns grace from fans. If the characters bore some resemblance to their canon counterparts and the world building wasn’t borked, I’d let them get away with beardless dwarf women. I forgive Peter Jackson for having the Army of the Dead show up at Pelennor because he was telling the same story.
I actually have a good recent example of your way of dealing with diversity in a series: The Netflix series "Barbaren" created by german directors. It reflects the germanic wars between Rome und the tribes West of the Limes in Germania. The cast of germanic tribes folk consisted of german speaking people with White skin and blonde, Black or brown hair colours (fitting to the populace of that time). The eastern german tribe leader was an austrian with an austrian-german accent which fit since his tribe came from the Region of modern northern austria. The Romans were represented by latin-speaking people from Italy who had an italo-latin dialect, a tan and mostly Black hair. However, some of the Romans (mostly the ones with a lesser social standing) were played by germans, tunisians, french and spanish actors. This fits since the Roman empire Was not just made up of italians, but people from all different Regions and provinces within the Roman empire. Unlike the german tribes diversity within Roman armies and societies Was likely huge. So seeing Black actors playing warriors from carthage and egypt does make complete sense.
Yeah except for the Carthiginians were not black and in the show they had a black woman from Carthage travel to Germany and join up with some German tribe which is absolutely insane. Maybe you haven't seen the 2nd season.
@@theskycavedin Yeah, as a rule you found black people south of the Sahara; the Carthaginians were a Phoenician (modern day Lebanon/Syria) colony, with presumably some mixing from the North Africans, who had an appearance similar to the rest of the Mediterranean peoples.
Most esteemed Mr. Platoon, The arrival of this video has been anticipated by me ardently and I extend my most sincere gratitude for your hard work in entertaining us all. I look forward to indulge in it and if time may permit me, I will join you in the live chat. With much gratefulness and appreciation, Evelyn.
Very kind! Hope to see you later (but no worries if you can’t make it - the video will stay online unless Amazon decides to make another last-minute copyright claim!)
Your point about how to properly do representation and diversity on screen and in adaptations, natural homogenity that occurs in societies as well as maintaining the escapism (not using different worlds to communicate real world issues) is airtight and solid. I'm just one black woman but I am absolutely swayed and I think your way should damn near be studied by screenwriters. This would also avoid a lot of tokenism as well. Great job and I love watching your videos at work.
Little late on the uptake here, but I wanted to talk about Bear McCreary and his seeming lack of direction when it comes to the music. As you've stated, McCreary has some excellent points in his career, with Battlestar Galactica (and in the realm of video games, the God of War duology started in 2018) as a standout. Each are strong in their support of the story and characters, and I'd argue that the leitmotif sound that's being missed here is easy to find the works of God of War; many characters have strong themes that evolve under circumstances in the plot and the gameplay, and for many, these have become definitive sounds for these characters. I imagine that A) part of his constraint is that there was likely an executive mandate to have it 'sound like Howard Shore', thus crimping a lot of creativity by forcing him to tread a fine line in not sounding like complete rips of Shore's tracks while being recognizable enough to be 'Lord of the Rings', and B) that the characters, as has been stated, aren't fully formed enough to make creating a solid leitmotif around them easy in any fashion. That he has more experience with instruments that aren't fully a part of the orchestral tradition (the hurdy-gurdy in particular comes to mind) might also be an explanation as to his relative inexperience with orchestral composition.
Yes! The man returns! You and Mauler help keep me sane. Your videos are much appreciated and entertaining, much more so than the hack shows you critique.
@@TheLittlePlatoon I fear that modern show-runners and producers simply dont value competency in writing. And their priorities seem to be entirely political and self-centered. Also, I cant believe the man himself replied to me!
I always talked about how John Williams and Howard Shore would use the same theme but give it to a different section of the orchestra to carry, or change it in some way to convey the mood. I never knew there was a name for it.
Elves being tree huggers is apparently "the most Tolkien thing ever depicted on screen". Yeah, because remember the time when Elrond showed Bilbo the map to Mount Doom, the map was on a Kindle tablet, on a plastic table? Or when the council of Elrond all sit around said plastic table on plastic foldable chairs. Good times.
Indeed, The Ents were created because the Dwarves (and the Children of Iluvatar as well) would use trees for their labours and the trees needed protection. Not that the show runners could integrate into the show anyway.
My favorite part of this video I think is your breakdown of why diversity in a show like this isn't always good, and in this show specifically is done horribly wrong. It captures so well much of the reality of the situation and why forced diversity in media these days comes across as so jarring if not insulting. The rest of the video is fantastic, but that section specifically provides words for a phenomenon I have been observing and unable to otherwise nail down some of the cause of.
Wow I think this is the first time I've heard someone decribe how I feel about the representation issue in such accurate detail. The whole thing of the hyper mixed society feels so wrong and unrealistic for the setting. It totally ignores geography and immigration logic... look at the harfoots, that's a super small community that is presented as not interfering or even coming in contact with others... how and when did they become so mixed? It just doesn't really make sense within the world that they set up.
Forgive the comparison, but I’m guessing they’d prefer the audience think of the skin colors in humans/elves/harfoots/whatever the same as fur color in a group of wild cats-random and unimportant. One happens to have darker skin, this one is blond, that one’s a ginger, who cares. I might be wrong, but that’s my guess.
@@mariecarie1 Go find a population of wild cats that hasn't interbred with the domestic cats for a few generations and you'll find far less variation then you seem to suggest.
@@boobah5643 You’re right. Most wild animals are very homogenized in looks. Wolves, wild cats, cardinals, or basically any other creature in existence. There are occasional genetic exceptions, but most animals tend to look very similar to one another, particularly within the same group/herd/pack/whatever. Weird, huh, how that is.
I think your reviews on this debacle of a show have been the most entertaining of all to listen to. Very much looking forward to the rest of this series whenever you get around to it, and congratulations again on going full time.
I must say, I really appreciated and enjoyed your analysis of the soundtrack, use of the leitmotif, and McCreary’s influences as shown in this show’s soundtrack. A small part of the overall video but it certainly stood out to me. Definitely drove home your points all the more 👏
100% correct. They had the opportunity to create intentional, and realistic diversity that you would see in a world like Middle Earth. But they decided to make it look like Metropolitan Chicago, because, by God, that's the only proper way to check all the diversity boxes. 🙄
Black elf has a fade. That’s a maintenance heavy hair cut. Are there scenes of him getting touch ups every 3 days? Personally I’d give him long braids or dreads. What do you think about that,?
I think that your addressing of the race issues is very well laid out. The diversity in this show feels very false, but it could be even more diverse and feel true. Also, as said, if the writing is good enough, questions like this just don't matter as much to most people. It's a case of a thing being bad, and so the minor bad things are further amplified.
You are spot on with the diversity comparison between this and house of the dragon. I definitely was one of those dudes that initially raised an eyebrow at the casting choices but due to the show i didnt care after episode three. Because it fit where it was used. Its like the amazon writers had a dartboard where the darts are characters and the board dictated what skin colour the character is. Its a faulty method, and kinda lazy pandering in practice
I appreciate the rational approach and discussion of diversity that you gave in this video. This is what is needed in this world. Extremism, name-calling, and hate are exhausting. Both sides makes me weary with humanity. So thank you for this much needed refresher
Finally someone mentioned this was Poor from Bear, but I really don’t think it’s his fault. At times the soundtrack is jarring. I think this is because he was given nothing but a script and direction. ‘Arondir is super sad! One of his closest friends is dead! Make it super sad!’ But on screen.. it’s an unnamed elf that we’ve seen for 2 minutes and the music is wailing like the end of Braveheart. Howard shore however, had FOOTAGE. He had the sweeping vistas, the footage of the fellowship cresting the hill, he *Saw* edoras. He could tie in leitmotifs because he had the scrips and could *see* what he was scoring. In interview, Bear essentially put all his inspiration as ‘the feeling of wonder I had as a child’ and just went and made a bunch of cookie cutter fantasy music. What did one critic say? something like: ‘he set his keyboard to fantasy and just went with it’. That sums it up Perfectly.
I'm late to the party, but your comments on diversity being indicative of a modern, global city are spot on. It always bothered me to see small, isolated locales in a fantasy world with a complete identifiable racial mix of characters. Take Laketown in the Hobbit movies for example. It doesn't work that way. In the real medieval or historical world, people seldom traveled very far from their home, and married and produced children with other locals. The gene pool was very small and typical of the region.
It depends. That approach is good when your intention is to portray diversity as normal in a story set in something resembling our modern day world. Some shows have done a sort of "colorblind" casting, and it works pretty well there. But there are other stories where a characters otherness (in whatever shape or form) will have a significant impact on the story. And then, it shouldn't be used at random, but rather in service of the theme of the story.
I think the reason they do so much race mixing in their shows is because you can't have, let say, an all Latino Numenoreans, because the writers of the show NEED need someone to make look weak and stupid, i.e. a white males. That is to say, each "race" in the Rings of Power needs to have white male actors in them, so THOSE same white male actors can be the ones that are used as an example of stupid, weak and/or ineffectual. If you understand Marxism and the Weimar Republic, you know what is going on here, and it ain't good.
@@michaelt.5672of diversity only exist in skin color without some sort of grounded explanation then it's ideological most likely. Besides diversity matter in thought, less so about things you have no control over since they don't actually dictate your actions. I'm not going to treat immutable characteristics as equal to thoughts and actions and I find the people who do are pathetic because it only upsets their sensibilities and those are entirely subjective and therefore not worth using as a metric for anything.
I'll have you know, since finding your channel, I've never been able to refer to Not Galadriel as anything but Mighty Morfydd Power Elf. I've also gotten a friend in on it so all I have to say is MMPE and she knows exactly what I mean. It's the best.
Regarding Numenor's presentation: doesn't anyone else think it's weird that the colossi are overgrown with trees? Numenor is already in a state of quasi-ruin and abandonment.
The biggest crime in this show is still that most elves have no long hair. Having long hair is like the one thing they were described as having isn't it?
No, re long hair. The Elves were frequently described as "the fairest," meaning lightest skin and hair. Currently re-reading Fellowship, and can't recall ANY reference to hair length except on Hobbit feet (which was SUPPOSED to be like HEAD hair, NOT the wiry pubic-like hair Peter Jackson chose, perhaps out of practicality, as it would get dirty and matted awfully fast).
@@StarShine-Ranch things like elf hair color and length are described more in the extended works than LotR. That's why Legolas' hair color is debated to this day: it's never talked about in LotR.
I don't even care for there being a diverse cast even if it is incorrect to place them there. What i care about is that the elves don't feel like elves at all. Long hair, tall in stature and elegant is what makes me think of elves in the tolkien world. If they had black elves look and feel like this and with just a sliver of personality then i would see no problem. But they don't. All the elves just feel like normal men with posh haircuts. HOTD made it work with the Velaryon house. So it's definitely possible to make it work in middle earth. But you gotta actually implement what we already know and love about a world and not try and make it new and fresh for a woke audience who don't really care for anything else but modern politics. It's the same with the dwarfs. I really enjoyed Disa's character. She actually had a personality compared to 99% of the characters. But you could tell they wanted to place a lot of the attention on her over others. And when you've seen who's gotten a lot of time to speak to the media about RoP, you see why. And why couldn't they give them beards?? I tell you, if us women had beards, we'd style that shit so much with all kinds of ornaments, which i would expect from a dwarf lady like Disa. But naaaah.
I’m a year late watching these but I’m guessing there will not be part 3 since it’s been a whole year since last review. Still these brought me to this channel and I look forward to the other series playlist made.
Demonstrating this image of Galadriel on 'TV' is spot on. It is the most clear example of show creators not getting what is aestetically pleasing and what isn't on the fundamental level.
Really enjoyed your take on the race conundrum in this show and fantasy in general. I think something which positively affected the Velaryon race-swap in HOTD was the later plot point of Rhaenyra’s children being born to Ser Strong and not her husband, Laenor Velaryon. Her children not being mixed race (such as the children of Rhaenys and Corlys) provides an easier visual cue/reminder for the audience that by Westerosi customs, her children are illegitimate. The race swap had, arguably, a purpose overall in the show.
what gets me about the slave part , at lest lore wise, is the elves would not really care if they die and would rather die then become slaves. they get their bodies back 90% of the time after spending time in their underwold. part of the immortal thing. something that would have made the humans jealous and could have been a good place to show tension between the groups.
“If all it would’ve taken was to equip them with a sombrero and a poncho, then it would’ve made all the battles of the Third Age that much easier.” I’m just imagining all the orcs on Pellenor Fields garbed in such a way. 😂
Grima: "Even if we had a massive army it would take many sombreros - thousands - to cover them" Saruman: "Tens of thousands" Grima: "But my lord there is no such parcel service" *Pans over 10.000 Amazon delivery drivers*
I have two annoyances with Corlys: 1) the race swapping of the Valeyrions really does impact that plot, firstly with Rhaneyra's kids by Harwin Strong, the whole point of the story is that its supposed to be ambiguous if they're his kids or Sir Laynor's. 2) the Inconsistency, Baella and Rhella are as Dark Skinned as Lord Corlys despite having a white father and and a white (maternal) grandmother and an uncle (Sir laynor) who was lighter skinned than they were. - as a geneticist by profession and someone with 1/4 black ancestry I can tell you that this isn't how it works. When She was alive people were very taken aback when they realized that my paternal grandmother was black. Depending on how far they want to go with this series (are we going into the Age of Aegon the III?) this will only become a recurring issue leaving the show increasingly more dependent on good acting / writing. I'll agree with you about the idea of doing a GoT style representation for men, it makes perfect sense but not with the idea of ethnically distinct Elves, I'm a purist I make no apologies about it and being 3/4 Scandinavian I resent the cultural appropriation of our mythology by hack lefty writers so I'm not in the mood for compromise.
I can certainly see the argument - I’m not all that familiar with Martin’s works so that certainly passed me by. I might rephrase the point, then, to emphasise that building in race-swaps to a well-written story makes the general audience *more likely* to forgive said swap, admitting that this doesn’t eliminate all the issues that arise in the long-run.
I find Corlys being black with the white DREADS instead of long flowing hair is cool and different and really makes him unique and stands out as a High Lord. I forgive these choices because the show is genuinely great, but I understand your point on Lucerys/Jacerys - Strong/Leanor
While I agree it’s kind of Jarring seeing black Valerians, because the writing was actually good and the actors were good it didn’t really bother me by the second or third episode
@@TheLittlePlatoon I get your point and the good writing and acting reduced the extent to which it bothered me in HoD. Its the whole activist thing which annoys me, to the point that I cheered when the writers killed of Jarl Estrid at the end of the 1st series of Vikings Valhalla. Likewise there was an uproar here from the wokies when the cast for an adaptation of a book series set in the 13th century was revealed and it was all white. Well 13th Century Scandinavia was what it was and for the most part still is.
@@NASkeywest Jarring was the very first word that came to mind for me as well, followed by weird. If Hollywood and streamers care about diversity, where are all the great tales from around the world, collecting dust while waiting for adaptations???
I respect every aspect of your analysis. You've obviously put a great deal of thought into all your points, and it really shows. I could go on and praise multiple aspects of this video, beginning to end, but to keep it short I shall leave it simply as; Excellent work, I'm now subscribed.
Absolutely loved the score breakdown and comparison with howard shore. Really wish you could have played examples of the music to reinforce the point. Keep up the good work!
1:02:10 Sauron could be good if he wanted to. It's just that he never wanted to. In fact, I don't think there was ever anything he wanted less than being good. As Tolkien describes him, he was less evil than Morgoth only by serving someone else other than himself for a time.
1:54:30 The whole thing with the Builders' Guild (really, they are just avoiding saying "Masons' Guild" for obvious reasons, and I am having the laugh of my life with that detail whenever I think about, because they could avoid it by saying "Architects' Guild" - unless they mean she will be carving and hauling the huge stone blocks, which is even more hilarious to imagine!) is that it is meant to put the two siblings at odds in a roundabout manner: he keeps tossing opportunities left and right, making little headway in life, whereas she manages to get a prestigious post and her father apparently ignores it. I don't think I need to stress how contrived that is, how silently pseudo-feminist, needed to twist Elendil to be a complete arse who is ignoring his daughter's need for affirmation and respect and all that, so that the writers could then justify her, somehow, siding with the evil racists, in spite of the fact that that makes her complicit in their plotting (hell, she outrightly urges them on too!), merely because she is a neglected woman and therefore merits our approval *_regardless_* of her actions or intent behind them, both of which are deplorable.
I always thought that since Legolas is the son of the Elven king Thranduil that he had been blessed with abilities that exceed the skill of most other elves. It would make sense considering how a lot of elves don't show any exceptional ability during war scenes but Legolas does.
Really depends on how old the elves are. The first generations were almost gods of war, fighting Balrogs on their own. Legolas and most elves we see fighting during the Third Age would be considered teens at best by elven standards. Which is why you do see them still fight at all. Elrond, Galadriel and the rest of the „old brigade“ are just too fed up with immortality in a world that is dying around them, at least in their eyes.
The creators thought… Legolas can do all this crazy sh!t so we should make that our main character. ! It’ll be awesome and people will HAVE to love her. Problem is Legolas wasn’t liked as much as the other fellowship members. Skill doesn’t translate to likability. To think so is childish folly .
Do you remember when in Elder Scrolls you would sometimes use the charisma dialogue option even tho you knew full well it had zero chances of success, since you never gave the charisma stat a single skill point? Yeah, that was a Ring of Power's Galadriel simulator basically.
The Leitmotif is something I love when used correctly. A great example of it done brilliantly would be Murray Gold and the first five series of Doctor who. The way he'd use the same tune to show connections and emotions just by the difference in tone and pitch was very well done.
Thank you for an incredibly thorough video! You sound very posh, highly educated, and wise, so I was surprised to hear about your childhood with the discount holidays instead of at Sandringham with Queen Victoria! I caught approximately the last half of this video as it was premiering, and, as I couldn't watch then, I only listened as though it were an audiobook. Later, I watched it from the beginning. Your editing skills are absolutely phenomenal. Your script is intelligent, witty, and wry. The combination of the two creates a masterpiece! Here are some examples: 06:37 "you go looking again and again" Gimli taking a quick peek around Aragorn to see how far it is to jump at Helm's Deep 08:52 Gimli "why?" 10:02 "Invites you to look" Aragorn holding the palantir 10:34 "I apologize for breaking so quickly from the plot" Saruman shuts his book ... 10:38 "So much has been said about it" shows the Mouth of Sauron. 24:36 The subject is diversity. "You've gotta tick these boxes," shows a quill crossing a line on parchment "If you don't like these boxes being ticked," shows the middle-aged hobbit couple with the smiling white-haired guy as his grumpy wife approaches "you are probably a racist" with the R word coinciding exactly with her head turn and angry glare. 1:09:42 "The sea cannot commit treason" LOTR scary Galadriel: "Treacherous as the Sea" Thank you very much of the explanation of why the CGI is questionable. I heard people complaining about it but I didn't understand what the problem was, so thank you! Thank you also for the explanation of the contrast between the soundtracks of LOTR and ROP! This was fantastic to watch. Thanks again! 🤩🤣 (Edited to add the : to the timestamps so they turn blue and become actively usable.)
@Simon England my goodness, you write on the same level as The Little Platoon! Maybe you can start your own channel? At the risk of revealing my ignorance and lack of general intelligence, but in the hopes of making you chuckle, I will admit that I had to look up “etymological provenance.” I was confusing etymological with the study of insects, and provenance with a region of France. 😂
I must say, I adore your labels for things and people in this series. So far, I can keep up with the story better by remembering “Prince Harry” than… well, whatever that Dwarf’s name actually was. :). Thank you for making this entertaining - educational and informational works so rarely are.
@@fennglordd6365 Couple of connections; Lord Chord aka The Little Platoon (though the channel is officially two people) appears regularly on the Mr Brown Alliance channel (another reviews channel) & Mr Brown is a mod/ channel member for Drinker. Plus several of us who are subbed to both Mr Brown & TLP have been mentioning TLP's reviews in Drinker's Open Bar comments for several months, as a great guest (and also just for general quality reviews, for the audience) so one way or another, the connections were made.
The Despot of Antrim. He's pretty new but great stuff. I only found the others after finding him. He's more just about bashing trash, less in depth analysis, but it's always amusing as hell.
I remember leaving the theaters humming the music of each of the PJ's movies, and from movie to movie immediately identifying each one related to each character or people, and i if I heard any of the tunes in RoP I wouldn't know what they were. The same with costumes. Every single female in this show wears the same type of dress, even the dwarves, wardrobe department is one of the most important ones when it comes to a movie or TV show that wants to represent several different types of peoples / countries/ regions with ease for the audience, and this show, of course, massively fails here too.
Although I can't know how much time & effort you've spent upon making these two Rings-videos, I'd like you to know that I realize that it's significant, and I appreciate it. The results are high-quality and engaging. :)
These long form videos work really well. In a way, they are possibly good as a podcast too. The narration is so clear and concise, missing the visuals shouldn't really matter in following your points.
Fantastic analysis as usual. Especially loved the point about the map... when I first saw that scene I took another look at the map of Mordor and spent quite a while scratching my head about how EVEN IN THEIR OWN CANON anyone would have been able to link the symbol with the location... even if it was the only place you knew about in the world, the symbol did not properly match the location.
THANK YOU. So. Well. Said. You organized every thought and criticism I had while watching part of the show (I boycotted it after Ep 3), but infinitely better than I could have phrased.
Very much appreciated the section on the Score. Really well done. Highlighting the variation (both arrangement and orchestration) in Shore's leitmotifs really illustrates the difference between a great score and an average one.
I still don't know why Numenor has a lighthouse inside the harbor...like well inside. You'd want something like that where there are breakers and shallows on the coast and not on the inside of a well-maintained harbor. Maybe they're going for a Colossus of Rhodes thing but that was a huge and very impressive copper statue signifying the entrance to the harbor.
The funniest part about activists taking over shows like this and the game of thrones latter seasons was to witness their unbelievably barren knowledge of how feudal systems, inheritance, titles etc. work. Them making the daughter of an overthrown king "queen regent" is almost as funny as daenerys giving a direct descendent of the former king the stormlands or everyone making Bran king in the end.
You probably won't see this, but: classically trained composer here, I'm happy you have done your research on film soundtracks and how they can help tell a story instead of simply accompanying it. Most people really understate the importance of soundtracks to the memorability and depth of cinema, and I'm glad you understand it to a much more educated extent. Many other reliable critics have just referred to the RoP soundtrack as "too loud" or "too epic for this series" or something along those lines. That being said, I do have some of my own critiques: The Numenor leitmotif is actually fairly brilliant, it's a melodically and harmonically complex theme that remains catchy and is fairly representative of the splendor of Numenor. The cadence in particular is actually brilliant, and I cant help but feel jealous for not writing it myself. It's honestly a fairly easy theme to adapt to more fast-paced scenes (as if that exists in RoP), and use recognizably in shorter variations. The Amazon overlords probably instructed McCreary to write a theme that was fairly long in its initial exposition so that they could have more time to show off their CGI. In addition to the Numenor theme, McCreary actually has a lot of other really gorgeous and satisfying motifs that he develops quite nicely in my humble opinion. He has shorter, yet equally recognizable and representative motifs for things ranging from the southlands and khazad-dûm to even the weird little relationship between that unmemorable elf guy whose name I already forgot and the equally unmemorable lady he liked. He retextures and varies these themes cleverly and intelligently throughout the show as he adapts them to different scenarios. My favorite part, though, might be his theme for Sauron. A swirling string ostinato in a shifting, jarring meter undertones a male chorus, chanting in what I can only describe as a wonderfully terrifying harmonic minor with some artificial flats thrown in there just to make it even more dramatic. McCreary's work on this soundtrack is probably most comparable to Michael Giacchino's work on Rogue One; both composers were hired to work on franchises with incredibly iconic musical identities, and both found ways to write unique and original soundtracks that were different from that of Williams and Shore respectively whilst still being respectful of said original musical identity. Overall, Mr. McCreary did an outstanding job on this show, and I find his soundtrack to be pretty much the only redeeming factor of RoP. In a time where the neo-postromantic film soundtrack like that of Korngold, Steiner, or Williams is beginning to die (e.g. Star Wars replacing their iconic and niche Holst-esque orchestral palette with bladerunner-like synthesizers in Andor, Mando and more despite its integral part in the star wars identity), this is really one of the first soundtracks that have given me hope for the future of film composing in the last several years. Credit where credit's due, I'm glad amazon made the decision to hire McCreary and let him write the style of soundtrack that he did. I hope that Mr. McCreary makes more like this, and that this style of soundtrack has a renaissance whenever holywood moves on from this phase of soft reboots and corporate cash-grabbing content.
20:33 You are very wrong here. Remember that elves are immortal, and when you say that elves don't breed rapidly it's a huge underestimation. Galadriel, who was born in the First Age, by the time of the end of the Third Age had only one child that we know of (and we are talking about the timespan of around 10 000 years here). Same can be said about Thranduil, another child of the First Age, whose son Legolas we all know on the brink of the Fourth Age and departure of all elves from Middle-Earth. Galadriel herself was perhaps 5th or 6th generation from the very first elves on Arda. Think about it well, when you bring forward the argument that elves splitting into different tribes/peoples/communities also means them splitting ethnically. That is simply impossible due to the fact that there are not enough generations for a drastic diversity in morphological traits to develop "naturally" (even if we assume that it's a possibility at all with "magic" creatures like elves). Think about the descendants of Dutch colonists in South Africa - they are still very notably white people, they haven't become like the indigenous black people in how many generations, ten, fifteen or even more? It's absolutely not the scale enough for that kind of evolution. Therefore, creating a whole tribe/kingdom of black elves and pretending that they evolved "naturally" from the original fair-skinned ones, would be an even more disingenuous way of disguising box-ticking diversity casting process and even more dishonest pretense of being "tolkinean" and following the lore than what ROP did. But otherwise thank you for your video, I'm going to continue enjoying it further now.
He meant that if you must without choice, you could technically say the split ethnically. Only if you absolutely must do so. Of course there was no reason to do so at all.
@@enightc I don't think it's what he was saying, but if he did like you do, then it's very wrong. As I've tried to explain, "ethnical splitting" takes a lot of generations even with humans on Earth. You don't change your ethnicity when you start living in a completely different geographical area, and your children or grandchildren won't, unless your family mixes with other ethnicities along the way. Elves, however, don't intermingle with humans (with exceptions you could count with fingers on one hand) and therefore could not "receive" such morphological characteristics as black skin from the outside. And they wouldn't have enough time to develop it naturally, even if we generously agree that there were elves who decided to live in the open areas with the abundance of sunlight and UV radiation. Furthermore, don't forget that in Tolkien's world the sun itself appeared relatively late - in fact, that happened already during the lifetime of Galadriel. Therefore, all the preceding generations can be safely excluded from the alleged skin color changing process - there was simply no biological reason for that. And also don't forget, when we speak about ROP, we speak about events which are much closer to the date of the sun's appearance, than LotR. To be precise, between the creation of sun and forging rings of power only 2100 solar years had passed. In terms of immortal elves it's not enough for even two generations to change!
@@Tallorian I think you took it too literal, he was just saying that if they must add a black person into Elves, then this is what they could have said and most ( not you ) would have said fine, its 0.000001% chance but it is fine, lets just move on. Its not that they should, just that if they need an excuse. He spent the entire first 30 minutes describing what they did wrong and how to do it right, to leave it alone and just follow actual geographical societal norms. That was just one possible 0.000001% possibility of an excuse they could have used but didn't, because the Writers was lazy and don't actually understand anything they are adapting.
@@enightc Just play again the segment I timestamped, what he says there is: "if you want a black elf, make it a part of your world building, make all elves in that region and faction black because then it can be explained by ethnic splitting of elf tribes, and it would greatly diminish force and validity (sic!) of the criticism because even lore-minded fans are ready to forgive such things if the world building is honest, consistent and faithful to the fundamentals of the source material". Like I've proven above with references to the canon, it's not the case, such "world building" with a whole tribe of black elves would absolutely obliterate the canon and spit on the source material even more than ROP already does with one random diverse elf. Again, I'm not criticizing TLP in general. He does many great references to the lore, and points to very wrong things in ROP some of which were overlooked by other reviewers. However, in this particular case his knowledge/memory of the lore shows unfortunate gaps, and hence the cure he suggests comes out worse than the disease itself. P.S. And I do not argue with the general notion that diversity can and should be applied with logic and plausibility in mind, rather than by "metropolitan" mixes of all races in each and every geographical location, like dumb Amazon hacks did in ROP and WoT. That is self-evident, of course. What I argue about, is only that such rational approach is completely inapplicable in case of Tolkien's elves, simply due to the canon.
@@Tallorian you do understand that we are talking about a show that gives no shits about world building right. And I do get it that you get it. But what he provided is a possible use if the Writer even thought about it for a second. We all know that they didn't, but if they had, I wouldn't think it would have been worst. Many fantasy stories have Dark Elves that were split from Regular Elves, they also have Wood Elves with yellow bark like skin due to Magic If they had just spent a literal second, it could have all been explained with Magic, but nope, they didn't even want to spent the time to do so.
I really enjoyed how deep you dived with lore in your first critique. I think you should continue to include lore in this series simply because it's interesting and enjoyable to listen to.
I know I'm way late but dude as a rural American you can't know just how on point you were about city dwellers calling themselves "citizens of the world" knowing so little of the world outside of the generic international city was. For my honey moon we went to rural Scotland (sorry buddy it beats England in scenery) specifically to avoid as much urbanization as possible since it's all so similar. You got a new sub from me.
With apologies for the delay - this has been a manic month! I’ll not set a deadline for part 3, but the plan is to make it bigger, better and longer (like all things should be).
Next up will be Wakanda Forever, after which I’ll probably be cancelled for racism.
based
Bigger and longer... yumm
The only good thing to come out of Wakanda Forever will probably be that Rihanna song.
I actually quite liked the first one. Not a master peace by any means but with some cultural value and fitting for the mcu part of the start of decline
You, my friend, are a Legend.
Not-Sauron: "Alright. Let's try to be polite and diplomatic with the Queen."
Galadrrriel: "Give me one of your pissing boats or I'll murder you all."
Galadree choosed the wrong dialog option
well the great deceiver would be suave
@@austin9568AuraMasterDX really shouldn’t have just been mashing X
@@austin9568AuraMasterDX Seriously, Galadriel reminds me of playing Mass Effect and picking only the renegade options which leads to being a random aggressive asshole to everyone. Except with none of the charm and humor.
@@austin9568AuraMasterDX Paragon and renegade XD
A friend of mine had the following to say about the elves not spotting anything in valley below them:
"They aren't stones, they don't look down."
Fing brilliant!
i kinda wish your friend had written the show 🤣
@@moon-moth1 I hoped that someone other than I would have thought it.
@@moon-moth1 to be fair, Arwen did the same thing with Aragorn.
I don't get it.
“Why does a pie smell good and a turd stinks? A pie smells good because it looks towards the future and friends and the joy it will spread, while a turd stinks because it looks towards the past, holding onto old miseries remembered only by itself.”
_~Biggledick Bagpipes_
@Lowan Lichtenstein Sorry, I tried to put literally no thought into it but I just wasn’t able to, how do these geniuses do it?
Rings of Power is a good show because the dialogue is pretentious that means we peasants can't appreciate it.
Just like an awkward analogy, Amazon's 'Rings of Power' feels thin, and sort of stretched, like a turd scraped over too much pie.
Wonderful.
I challenge anyone to say that name without snickering
I’m on my sixth attempt and I just can’t get past Biggledic-
Speaking as an African....your segment on diversity is so well thought out.... it's explained so simply and I agree with everything that was said.. 100 percent
Did Little Platoon just never return to finish the Rings of power?? I’m so invested in his take and to have it end here would be most disappointing
Can't really blame him for walking away. Sanity is important after all.
No. It was THAT bad. Also not worth the gaslighting from Amazon Productions insisting it is good - and using take downs - methinks
He's working on it
Yes, first season is done.
I am still surprised that Rings of Power has so much characters and locations and yet nothing seems to happen.
I had that complaint right up until the point stuff did happen, and it made everything so much worse. At least when they’re pissing about doing nothing they can’t, I dunno, have an old man turn a key to flood a trench to activate a volcano. If that’s what happens, give me nothing!
@@TheLittlePlatoon Agreed. I think it would have been better if they kept the story small-scaled. Would have been better if they kept the story almost like a feel-good hangout movie. Instead, they just start rushing the plot with contrivance and plot hole after contrivance and plot hole
@@TheLittlePlatoon please tell me that didn't happen. Just started your video so apologies if you later discuss this..
@@gavhenrad It isn’t covered in *this* video. But yes, it actually happened. Mordor is created by an old man named Waldreg.
@@TheLittlePlatoon Watch them turn Waldreg into the Mouth of Sauron or some bullshit.
You mentioned Game of Thrones as doing the race/population thing right, and there's a very good example of that from the second season. A character is introduced, a merchant prince of the city of Qarth, where Daenarys and her party have arrived seeking shelter. In the books, this man is a native of Qarth and so very pale, whereas in the show he's played by a black actor. The show actually acknowledges and incorporates the difference, by slightly altering the character's backstory. He mentions that he was born in the Summer Islands (established in the books as having dark-skinned people) and came to Qarth as a young immigrant. This exposition makes sense because the entire point of his character is that he's trying to string Daenarys along and craft ties with her; emphasising that he knew what it was like to be an underpowered newcomer to the city serves the themes and the plot. This is the best of all worlds -- a colour-blind casting for a character for whom race doesn't really matter, while also acknowledging the setting lore and doing so in a way that actually *enhances* the character and fits perfectly with his purpose in the narrative.
Race-changing should still not have been done in that case! 😄
@@Fridaey13txhOktober as long as Race Swapping is done not in aggression or through malice, I do believe it's fine in live action. It's always good to take the best actor, no matter what race they are.
Animation and the like don't really have an excuse for race swapping, since you know.... it's drawings.
Damn you sound smart, you should be a writer and make us a good show please.
@@apuffball5754 I'm tired of you oafs that yield and give concessions. There is no 'best of both worlds,' either, as one world is entirely sh*t and the other world isn't.
@@brownehawk7744 was that a reply to the fella that replied to me, the original poster or just me? if it was to me, I am currently trying to get a college degree for writing so I can make my own things and (hopefully) sell stories. fingers crossed
It's so mind-boggling how the writers think we should be sympathetic towards galadriel and the harfoots. The absolute most sympathetic character is Adar who we should think is the villain.
Admit it, you're just patently evil.
Right, he is the best character by far...
At least Adar is some character and has a mission. I felt some sympathy for him, even ifs hes leading an army of orcs. The overpowered alpha-chad-female galadriel who achieves anything that she wants within a second, breaking any rules is not even a character. They have overtuned the alpha-alpha-alpha woman so much, they even mocking feminims wit it, because every human being with some contact to reality sees this is no rolemodel but a monstrosity.
I only came across this channel yesterday and the first time I heard Mighty Morfydd Power Elf I really did nearly choke on my cup of tea!
Too bad Adar is leaving the show lol. Benjen Stark deserved better!
I imagine they made this show just so you could eviscerate it, which, as it happens, is far more enjoyable.
We take our enjoyment where we can!
I completely agree! I enjoyed the aesthetics of this production. Having enjoyed the books it was enjoyable to see it dramatised, however, the character development, and lacklustre writing mitigated that enjoyment, I prefer these videos exponentially 😁
One thing about the prison break is that it shows how messed up the power levels are. Galadriel can take down a snow troll by herself with easy, meanwhile, half a dozen elves aren't able to kill one Worg even though they have spears, chains, knives and sticks laying around.
It took the entire fellowship to take down the cave troll and they barely pulled it off. Frodo was almost killed.
Galadriel in this show is basically a flightless Kryptonian. Which is missing the point of Elves entirely
You obviously don’t understand what a “badass” she is. She, above all others , is a badass. All the stupid men just slow her down. If they’d get out of her way she’d be able to save the world single handedly.
@@Ken-fh4jcthat’s because they were just stupid, slow, weak minded , selfish, entitled MEN.
By trying to be ‘all inclusive’ they’ve truly excluded the people they’re trying to represent the most. I love Tolkiens work but you’re right, standing back at looking at it for entertainment value shows you how soulless the show is still.
The main problem with this show is not the race exclusivity - this is just bad storytelling. But there is a problem that ruins the show completely - Sauron is actually portrayed as a good guy. They say he is evil. We know he is evil if we watched the movies or read the books. But in the show he is good. He does not corrupt Numenoreans, they are already corrupted when he appears. He does not lie, kill or overpower anyone and anything. Galadriel as she is portrayed is evil, she kills, betrays, lies, manipulates and she is utterly stupid and delusional in her relations with Sauron. And she has to be the protagonist. But Sauron is a man, not luring, evil, manipulative demigod. No, he saves her life, helps her and the "good" Numenoreans in battle, helps the elves - he does not lure them, just helps them. And the showrunners even create some vague romantic relation and tension between Sauron and Galadriel turning the show into soap opera. That romance enforces his humanity as he is just a nice man in bad company. And there is not possible consistent way to evolve the story from this point. As the main antagonist, the reason for the story, does not exist in the show.
@@nick3175 , I fully agree with you: if the narrative of how Sauron met Galadriel just by chance, will be allowed to stand, it's perfectly absurd and awful. But like our host I am still not perfectly convinced that this is the correct narrative. I think that it will become apparent in later seasons that Sauron manipulated everybody and especially Galadriel. He probably engineered his meeting with Galadriel for his own goals. He is a powerful maia sorcerer after all, who is very adept in manipulating and corrupting people's minds. He is called Sauron, the deceiver for a reason.
That said, it is still ridiculous to show us Sauron as a completely average human guy with human ambitions and emotions.
The show is a complete train wreck!
@@sabineb.5616 Well, they can twist the plot as they want, but what they showed already makes any twist almost consistently impossible, as Sauron did literally nothing to convince, manipulate, lie, lure anybody. Galadriel was the driving force for the plot, and she was not driven by clear motivation and goals, but by unprovoked emotions, stupidity and delusions - this is what they showed. Sauron did not manipulate her, as he did nothing, even if we assume he somehow organized the shipwreck meeting. He was just nice, helpful guy, who has crush on Galadriel, but what he does and says did not provoke anyone and anything. Numenoreans hated elves before his appearance. Mordor would be created even without him. In fact the Numenorean army almost prevented this absurd event. Rings could be crafted even without him, as he offered only very basic knowledge at very unconvinced way. Elves decided they will make 3 rings, but not a crown for example. And where are the rings for the men and the dwarfs? As in the true lore Sauron crafted only one ring.
@@sabineb.5616 Also, indeed, they can just say Sauron put spell on Galadriel and that is why she was evil. That may work on first side. But if you think about it, there are two issues. First, she almost prevented the absurd creation of Mordor. Second - if Sauron is so powerful that he can enchant even great elf as Galadriel, he does not need rings, he can just force anybody to do anything. So we will get the antagonist, but the entire story will make no sense.
I agree. They've actually robbed the different people of the ethnicity and culture, which Tolkien created for them. There were so many opportunities to show how much diversity can be found in Tolkien's work, and highlight it's importance. I actually find the showrunner's idea of diversity quite offensive, because it is not representative of our world at all.
The "Essay on Diversity" portion of this is by far the most fair and well articulated explainer I have seen regarding this issue on either side of the aisle. I feel like you breaking that out into its own video outside of RoP would be a great way to further this conversation rationally. Overall through truly exceptional work here.
I’ll see if I can find a way to split it out into its own video.
That was the worst part, if it was 2 min sure great you made your point. 25 min you are still complaining, you’re kinda racist now.
I agree. Been trying to put my finger on why the direction they took with diversity bugged me so much and this was 100% spot on.
@@matthewoehler2472 It perhaps was just an issue or topic that he was more passionate about. The video has time stamps so one can just skip to the next topic if desired.
@@matthewoehler2472 "you're only allowed to make your point in the timeframe I give you, any longer and I will arbitrarily call you a bad person"
Nothing quite like curling up under the covers after getting home from plowing snow all night, and listening to a man rip apart a multi-billion dollar company’s faults and failures😮💨 it’s like therapy only free🔥
who is snow ?
@@atomicdancer someone who didn't want getting plowed XD
@@atomicdancer John Snow, apparently. 😏
unless your a dude..then that just sounds gay..just joking.
@@atomicdancer he sang that song informer, in the 90s
"The elves cry over cutting trees"
What are their bows made of? What are their arrows made of? What are their buildings made of? What are their boats made of?
The mind boggles.
Trees that were already dead and fallen naturally.
@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself pretty shit wood for all those purposes if they’re dead trees
@@hueghh3775 Yea I've got a feeling the reason they fall over may have something to do with how strong they are but I've not finished my doctorate yet. That said, it was the most Tolkienian thing I've ever seen
they are made in china
it was a special tree, you see
Your essay on diversity is such a great, insightful way to explain why it's wrong to force faux-diversity everywhere. These writers, living where they live just... kind of. don't know any better. If a show is not as they see through their high-rise apartment window in a metropolitan city - it must be made to that likeness.
They say, write what you know. If you don’t know cultural homogeneity, then maybe don’t write about homogenous peoples and countries, or maybe do some research. Otherwise, you’d do much better writing a believable and authentic cyberpunk or space adventure, or in a different fantasy world where cultural diversity is represented in ways other than skin color.
@@mariecarie1 it seems writers dont know anything about LoTR, about it's history, about European history , or even about modern world. and yet feel the need to educate us - unwashed masses - about life death and everything in between
I would also add that Americans, at least coast elites, cannot understand ethnical and national differences of the rest of a world. They look at everybody through their universalist, lockean, propositional nation-tinted lenses, which is not how the world works. And that seeped through the whole Anglosphere because instead of the British Empire we have the American Empire. All of this is showing here, and for somebody who doesn't subscribe to this universalist ideology, it looks jarring and ridiculous.
This is so cliché...
As much as we'd like to blame the writers here... I don't think the forced diversity and failed world building is their fault. At least, not in this way (others for sure, particularly the elementary level dialogue). This problem comes down to the casting director and staff, and everyone that had a bite on the casting process. Which typically doesn't involve the writing staff, unless they specifically wrote a part with racial bias in mind.
Granted that they wouldn't have likely done any better since all the people in these departments come from the same places, and carry the same biases, but we can't just land everything at the writers' feet. There's plenty of blame for shit production to go around.
What I love about this deconstruction is this series is that you actually point out the good stuff this series actually does, but you also take apart the near-infinite number of flaws in the series in an entertaining and insightful manner. I'm definitely looking forward to the next part. One of the rare channels where a 2 hour video feels like 30 minutes. Great content.
"Screw the rules of writing, I have money!" ~ The showrunners, probably
Hollywood, almost assuredly.
It kind of makes me laugh how often the show refers to her as "commander of the northern armies", yet the only elven soldiers we ever see, in the entire first season, are the six guys who end up mutinying and abandoning her because she's psychotic and was about to leave one of them to die.
So where are these armies? Hell, Eregion looks like it has a population of what, like 15? You see the four main elves, a scribe, a couple of background smiths, and ... that's it. You don't see any other elves at all in the CAPITAL of the elven kingdom.
Hell, maybe those six guys WERE the "northern armies". Nameless Elf #1-3 were Northern Army #1, while Nameless Elf #4-6 were Northern Army #2.
It kinda reminds me of an annoying version of General Yuan's introduction speech
Would you be willing to post "An Essay on Diversity" as a standalone video to make easy sharing of the amazingly well articulated idea. I feel many of us have had that sentiment, but haven't been able to exactly communicate it and I feel your version is spot on for sharing and discussion of the topic with very little, if any, "toxicity".
Good idea! I’ll probably stick it on my second channel, though, as it’s where excerpts and shorter videos go. (I think I the link is in the description.)
“The sea is always right!” has been stuck in my head for weeks now. And giving me a good laugh every time I remember it. 👌🏻
What truly irks the English/Writing Major in me is that this line could work… IF the people of Númenor worshipped an oceanic deity and considered the waters to be a manifestation of this god and his will.
THEN the Númenoreans would have a distinct cultural characteristic. They revere a powerful deity, but one that isn’t especially merciful or concerned with human affairs. “My wife drowned… The sea is always right.” translates to, “The god takes or spare who he wills, and who are we to question him?”
The line itself would still sound ridiculous, but only to in-universe foreigners and viewers of the show who are unfamiliar with the context. When the context is understood, it becomes almost painfully sad. “The sea is always right” is a line of resigned acceptance. These people respect their god. But he’s not one they can truly love, because he expresses no personal love for his worshippers.
What bother's me about this is at this point (in the books anyways, given this is before the forging of the rings, long before the decline of the Numenoreans) the Numenoreans were actually on a first name basis with Ulmo, Osse and Uinen. What that means is they were friendly with the Vala (god/archangel/primordial ruler) of the waters and his two liutenants Osse & Uinen (who are a couple and rule over various aspects of the seas). At this point in their history they still are actually on a first name basis with Osse and Uinen, which means that when there is a storm (and Osse likes causing storms, he likes the racket) they can call upon Uinen (his wife and the only person who could calm him down) and that will settle the sea. Tolkien states that the Numenoreans held the two in equal reverence with the actual Valar. The whole "The sea is always right" business doesn't work because they were on a first name basis with the people who actually ran the sea and caused the storms.
The other one that bothers me is the show having two Durins at the same time. The reason that doesn't work is Tolkien makes it very clear that the ancient fathers of the dwarves will reincarnate from time to time and use their ancient names again and rule their own houses for a time. This means that Durin III and Durin IV aren't father and son or successive kings like the Edwards and Henrys of England or the Louis' and Phillips of France. They're the same person reincarnated again. That bugs me because Tolkien makes that very clear in his writings and it's another example of this show completely throwing everything out for the sake of their own ideas.
Literally all they had to do was have those characters say it softly and solemly, along with them losing a sailor or two. That alone would've made it make sense even without more context for the normal audience who would just see it as "ah, it's a sort of quick acknowledgement that the sea controls who lives and dies, therefore "the sea is always right" both when they survive and when they die at sea, it's part of their culture."
Instead, them screaming it like it was a battle cry makes it sound stupid.
The deity you are talking about is Osse, and the way their relationship is described in the Silmarillion is that the Numenorians love him but do not trust him, because he enjoys violence and storms and once was talked into joining Morgoth, but was talked out of it by the other deity, Uinen, his female counterpart.
The easy answer is rip-off winter is coming.
Just need a T pshirts catchphrase
I laughed so hard at that line I actually did get a t shirt with "the sea is always right" on it.
Your voice and accent are honey to the ears, and your hindsights are always reflected and well articulated.
As a french, giving such praises to a brit is quite exceptionnal "believe that ! "
I'm glad I discovered you when you did that first open bar with the Drinker, that was an easy subscribing.
Wishing you good luck for the new life as full time content creator :)
The I shall take it as a double compliment!
You gay bro.
If he learned how to pronounce 'Says' then it would be perfect
@@TheLittlePlatoon I believe that’s a triple compliment since he complimented and complimented as a *Uuuah* 🤮 French and THEN complimented a Brit as a *oh god help me* a French
Haha, the inclusion of the "believe that !" got me real good. Nice one
This just reminds me of when I was writing fanfiction a long time ago and several of the issues mentioned here were things that I worried about back then: every character uses similar speech patterns (and it's one that is probably also not even really in character for any of them), there's no way to tell one location from another except for set pieces in architecture or geography because the people living there sure don't have a cohesive identity, disjointed "oh no, I forgot that this part is important, better have someone mention it" exposition, and so on...
And if a teenager who was not a skilled, or at least not experienced, enough writer to stand on his own two literary legs, could identify these issues and at least attempt to do something about it, how are people in a billion dollar production, including people whose entire career is literally dependent on them being a better writer than I was... Well, how are they making the same basic mistakes I did, only a larger scale?
Perhaps it's deliberate? I mean never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence... but...
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
@@ArticulateDegenerate Yeah, I'm not attributing anything to anything, I'm just asking.
Like, there is a reason "professional quality" is seen as superior to amateur work, but here... It's not.
@Druid of Scosglen Sorry to hear about your wife, but if you think it could be a sort of therapy, I think you should go for it.
You don't even have to share it with anyone if you feel it's not good enough, you could even just delete it as soon as your done. Just write it for your own sake.
I know my old notes from back when I used to write are 90% stuff that I never shared with anyone, but sometimes I just felt like writing a thing. Even if I knew it to be garbage when looking at it afterwards, it was still worth putting pen to paper at the time just to get the words out there in some form. Even one that never reached anyone else in the end.
Besides, look at it this way: Even if you're not a great writer so you also get stuck in those kinds of writing pitfalls. As long as you actually acknowledge that these issues exist and at least make an attempt to correct them, you can't possibly do worse than the writers of Rings of Power. ;)
@@ArticulateDegenerate Global Marxism to destroy the West and usher in a more global government. Why do you think all this crap only comes from media owned by billionaires who want to expand their businesses on a more global scale? Agenda 2030 started in 2020 with covid. There's no surer way to destroy a society than Marxism. It's quite literally designed to do so. All these huge media companies are hoping to be first in line, and their leaders get "benefits" for pushing things in that direction right now.
You hit on something I often think when I see bad writing or a terrible comedy set and off the top of my head (okay this is subjectiver) I can think of so many better things, far funnier or far better plot points etc (especially for game of thrones last few seasons... jesus....)that I end up saying to myself "someone got paid for this! this is their job and THIS is what they produced, and got paid for..... unbelievable. I need to get into this business"
Notice how In the Lord of the Rings, where there are also multiple storylines happening simultaneously, but there is same amount of rising tension In each of them? In the two towers Helm's Deep and Isengard are happening simultaneously. In Rings of Power these is a volcano eruption and a tree branch falling on a little girl happening simultaneously
In LOTR all storylines spawn from a central point, a bunch of dudes need to get a ring to some scary volcano far away.
Boromir's death may be my favorite scene in the trilogy. So well acted, just loaded with emotion and tension. Boromir's determination his resilience make for a powerful redemptive moment. And the look of cruel relish on Lurtz's face as he's about to point blank kill Boromir is amazingly well done.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I play your videos while I fall asleep. I’m a lifelong insomniac, and your videos are the perfect blend of humor, information, and snark, delivered in a smooth voice/accent at a consistent volume. It’s incredibly soothing, like an opinionated, insistent literary lecture merged with a bedtime lullabye.
So basically, the EFAP experience
I glad I’m not the only one who does this 😁
I Fell 2 sleep at the end of episode 1...true story
My my... Your part on diversity and geography is so spot on.
Something I tried to explain about diversity in fantasy but could never really put into words.
When Galadriel rejected the white guy because he didn't check his privilege, I cried tears of empowerment
REJOICE in the downing of the PATRIACHY!!
@@zahrans is that a joke or serious? i can't tell
@@chad_of_the_Tsg dont be thick.
Then when she yelled "its Elfin Time!" and stabbed Morgoth with a light saber, I cheered
this has to be worst explanation i have ever seen
"We have a diverse cast" is the "look at this cute dog we added to this game" of the movie world
"Can you pet a diverse cast?"
And the poor execution of diverse casting is the "Does the dog die" equivalent, which also already exists for movies anyway, but fuck you
@@justtmwWell-
Something that always pissed me off about Elrond offending Durin because he doesn't note how time passes for mortals, is that Elronds own brother became a mortal. I'd think after losing his brother and never getting to see him again due to where Elves and humans end up that Elrond would know how time passes
Random lore question: isn’t it implied that eventually everything will be reunited and rebuilt after the end of the world, so hypothetically humans and elves would reunite?
@@bencarlson4300 Yes in the Second Music(aka creation round 2) everyone is believed to be reunited (Men & Elves & Dwarves etc) and the “Marring” of Arda by Melkor/Morgoth will be healed. All this is supposed to happen after the Dagor Dagorath (although Tolkien is a bit vague about the whole affair)
On the elf diverity part, Just Some Guy made some points on why it would not make sense in some of his videos about LoTR and RoP. One was that there would not be enough generations of elves for big changes to apear.
That is an argument that occured to me as well. Considering the unaging properties of elves and their low fertility, evolution in an adaptive sense would take pretty long IF there is some faction killing the elves none stop and therefore reducing the chance of older generations (like thousands of jears older) mixing with younger generations. Otherwise we would have a society like valinorian elves, which is effectively an insane gerontocracy, meaning eg. 99,99% of the population is older than 500 years. Ether Valinor is absolutely overcrowded by now or joung elves are very rare. This also reduces the effectivity of evolutional processes since it would be very likely those young elves would find hundrets of jears older mates from oftentimes much older generations, preventing or at least prolonging evolutional adaptation to an insane degree. Another point would be that elves, as far as I know, in Tolkiens universe cant get sick. Cancer seems to be none existant for them. If geographical differences though don't affect the survivability of elves (or at least not nearly as much as us frail humans) the evolutional pressure is further reduced.
I am not saying, that the show should take those musings as a fact and therefore not include PoC for elvish characters. You could just go with Platoons line of thought and make the different tribes of elves opticaly distinct from one another. Since those tribes intermingled in Valinor to a certain extend you could see every shade of skincolour in noldorian elves. From what we have seen so far though the vast majority or the original aperance of the noldorian elven folk seems to be fair.
Just some thoughts on the different physiology of elves an humans.
PS: please be kind on an foreigner writing in English. This topic is a literal minefield and possible misuse of some terms is unintended (though I would love hear of those to better my skills)
cheers
Glad you brought up the 2 kids and their reunion with their mother from the two towers. I always thought a story about how the mother survived the attack on the village and her journey to helms deep would be interesting.
"Blackpool Tower is pretty neat, and at least there aren't so many French people around"
Me, a French sub: He's got a point.
True - who would you bum a cigarette from?
I'm genuinely having tremendously more fun listening to you ripping this apart scene by scene than when I actually watched it.
The mistake was watching it. By viewing it you are already giving them what they want. If they get what they want from you by doing it this way, you are really telling them that they are doing it right and only incentivize them to do it more.
If people just stop watching and paying for incredibly bad stories, they will necessarily eventually stop being made. They are only being made because you watch it.
@@theWebWizrd I only watched the first 4 episodes. Could take more of it.
"If the world-building is honest, apolitical, non-allegorical, sensible, consistent, and faithful of its source material." Right on the spot. Couldn't agree more.
And lol Sailor Twink and his bond of seamen. LOOOL
The thing is that, if an adaptation takes some liberties but is loyal to the spirit of the original, it really earns grace from fans. If the characters bore some resemblance to their canon counterparts and the world building wasn’t borked,
I’d let them get away with beardless dwarf women. I forgive Peter Jackson for having the Army of the Dead show up at Pelennor because he was telling the same story.
The way "Galadriel" constantly rolls her R's is insanely grating.
Agreed. And I say that as a Franconian, and we are notorious for our rolled R's. Maybe I feel mocked by Galadrrrrriel.
Plus, she sucks at it.
I think you mean grrrrating
I actually have a good recent example of your way of dealing with diversity in a series: The Netflix series "Barbaren" created by german directors.
It reflects the germanic wars between Rome und the tribes West of the Limes in Germania. The cast of germanic tribes folk consisted of german speaking people with White skin and blonde, Black or brown hair colours (fitting to the populace of that time). The eastern german tribe leader was an austrian with an austrian-german accent which fit since his tribe came from the Region of modern northern austria.
The Romans were represented by latin-speaking people from Italy who had an italo-latin dialect, a tan and mostly Black hair. However, some of the Romans (mostly the ones with a lesser social standing) were played by germans, tunisians, french and spanish actors. This fits since the Roman empire Was not just made up of italians, but people from all different Regions and provinces within the Roman empire. Unlike the german tribes diversity within Roman armies and societies Was likely huge. So seeing Black actors playing warriors from carthage and egypt does make complete sense.
Yeah except for the Carthiginians were not black and in the show they had a black woman from Carthage travel to Germany and join up with some German tribe which is absolutely insane. Maybe you haven't seen the 2nd season.
@@theskycavedin Yeah, as a rule you found black people south of the Sahara; the Carthaginians were a Phoenician (modern day Lebanon/Syria) colony, with presumably some mixing from the North Africans, who had an appearance similar to the rest of the Mediterranean peoples.
Most esteemed Mr. Platoon,
The arrival of this video has been anticipated by me ardently and I extend my most sincere gratitude for your hard work in entertaining us all. I look forward to indulge in it and if time may permit me, I will join you in the live chat.
With much gratefulness and appreciation,
Evelyn.
I second this sentiment
Very kind! Hope to see you later (but no worries if you can’t make it - the video will stay online unless Amazon decides to make another last-minute copyright claim!)
@@TheLittlePlatoon What did you mean by CW levels of writing? Sorry I'm not a native English speaker.
@@EbonyPope It refers to the CW channel, that's notorious for its badly written series.
This was adorable
Your point about how to properly do representation and diversity on screen and in adaptations, natural homogenity that occurs in societies as well as maintaining the escapism (not using different worlds to communicate real world issues) is airtight and solid. I'm just one black woman but I am absolutely swayed and I think your way should damn near be studied by screenwriters. This would also avoid a lot of tokenism as well. Great job and I love watching your videos at work.
Little late on the uptake here, but I wanted to talk about Bear McCreary and his seeming lack of direction when it comes to the music.
As you've stated, McCreary has some excellent points in his career, with Battlestar Galactica (and in the realm of video games, the God of War duology started in 2018) as a standout. Each are strong in their support of the story and characters, and I'd argue that the leitmotif sound that's being missed here is easy to find the works of God of War; many characters have strong themes that evolve under circumstances in the plot and the gameplay, and for many, these have become definitive sounds for these characters.
I imagine that A) part of his constraint is that there was likely an executive mandate to have it 'sound like Howard Shore', thus crimping a lot of creativity by forcing him to tread a fine line in not sounding like complete rips of Shore's tracks while being recognizable enough to be 'Lord of the Rings', and B) that the characters, as has been stated, aren't fully formed enough to make creating a solid leitmotif around them easy in any fashion. That he has more experience with instruments that aren't fully a part of the orchestral tradition (the hurdy-gurdy in particular comes to mind) might also be an explanation as to his relative inexperience with orchestral composition.
Yes! The man returns! You and Mauler help keep me sane. Your videos are much appreciated and entertaining, much more so than the hack shows you critique.
If they ever rediscover how to write basically competent scripts we might be out of a job!
Think of the opportunities! Can you imagine the success if a show were written competently
@@TheLittlePlatoon I fear that modern show-runners and producers simply dont value competency in writing. And their priorities seem to be entirely political and self-centered.
Also, I cant believe the man himself replied to me!
@@TheLittlePlatoon I'd like to think that they found talented people such as yourself. You'd be in the job, and out of this one I guess.
I always talked about how John Williams and Howard Shore would use the same theme but give it to a different section of the orchestra to carry, or change it in some way to convey the mood. I never knew there was a name for it.
Elves being tree huggers is apparently "the most Tolkien thing ever depicted on screen". Yeah, because remember the time when Elrond showed Bilbo the map to Mount Doom, the map was on a Kindle tablet, on a plastic table? Or when the council of Elrond all sit around said plastic table on plastic foldable chairs. Good times.
Indeed, The Ents were created because the Dwarves (and the Children of Iluvatar as well) would use trees for their labours and the trees needed protection. Not that the show runners could integrate into the show anyway.
My favorite part of this video I think is your breakdown of why diversity in a show like this isn't always good, and in this show specifically is done horribly wrong. It captures so well much of the reality of the situation and why forced diversity in media these days comes across as so jarring if not insulting. The rest of the video is fantastic, but that section specifically provides words for a phenomenon I have been observing and unable to otherwise nail down some of the cause of.
Wow I think this is the first time I've heard someone decribe how I feel about the representation issue in such accurate detail. The whole thing of the hyper mixed society feels so wrong and unrealistic for the setting. It totally ignores geography and immigration logic... look at the harfoots, that's a super small community that is presented as not interfering or even coming in contact with others... how and when did they become so mixed? It just doesn't really make sense within the world that they set up.
Forgive the comparison, but I’m guessing they’d prefer the audience think of the skin colors in humans/elves/harfoots/whatever the same as fur color in a group of wild cats-random and unimportant. One happens to have darker skin, this one is blond, that one’s a ginger, who cares. I might be wrong, but that’s my guess.
@@mariecarie1 Go find a population of wild cats that hasn't interbred with the domestic cats for a few generations and you'll find far less variation then you seem to suggest.
@@boobah5643 You’re right. Most wild animals are very homogenized in looks. Wolves, wild cats, cardinals, or basically any other creature in existence. There are occasional genetic exceptions, but most animals tend to look very similar to one another, particularly within the same group/herd/pack/whatever.
Weird, huh, how that is.
Forget facts & logic just embrace Hollyweird's Marxist Groomer society to push their propaganda.
I think your reviews on this debacle of a show have been the most entertaining of all to listen to. Very much looking forward to the rest of this series whenever you get around to it, and congratulations again on going full time.
Much obliged!
I must say, I really appreciated and enjoyed your analysis of the soundtrack, use of the leitmotif, and McCreary’s influences as shown in this show’s soundtrack. A small part of the overall video but it certainly stood out to me. Definitely drove home your points all the more 👏
You're one of the most articulate, level-headed UA-camrs I've discovered recently, and you've earned my subscription.
100% correct. They had the opportunity to create intentional, and realistic diversity that you would see in a world like Middle Earth. But they decided to make it look like Metropolitan Chicago, because, by God, that's the only proper way to check all the diversity boxes. 🙄
Black elf has a fade. That’s a maintenance heavy hair cut. Are there scenes of him getting touch ups every 3 days? Personally I’d give him long braids or dreads. What do you think about that,?
@@sirvilhelmofyonderland Haven't thought about that but it would make so much more sense
@@Amphibax plus it would look much better. A fade? In middle earth ? Bald would be better. Literally anything would be better. IMO
I think that your addressing of the race issues is very well laid out. The diversity in this show feels very false, but it could be even more diverse and feel true. Also, as said, if the writing is good enough, questions like this just don't matter as much to most people. It's a case of a thing being bad, and so the minor bad things are further amplified.
You are spot on with the diversity comparison between this and house of the dragon. I definitely was one of those dudes that initially raised an eyebrow at the casting choices but due to the show i didnt care after episode three. Because it fit where it was used.
Its like the amazon writers had a dartboard where the darts are characters and the board dictated what skin colour the character is. Its a faulty method, and kinda lazy pandering in practice
I appreciate the rational approach and discussion of diversity that you gave in this video. This is what is needed in this world. Extremism, name-calling, and hate are exhausting. Both sides makes me weary with humanity. So thank you for this much needed refresher
Let rationality rise.
Finally someone mentioned this was Poor from Bear, but I really don’t think it’s his fault. At times the soundtrack is jarring. I think this is because he was given nothing but a script and direction. ‘Arondir is super sad! One of his closest friends is dead! Make it super sad!’ But on screen.. it’s an unnamed elf that we’ve seen for 2 minutes and the music is wailing like the end of Braveheart. Howard shore however, had FOOTAGE. He had the sweeping vistas, the footage of the fellowship cresting the hill, he *Saw* edoras. He could tie in leitmotifs because he had the scrips and could *see* what he was scoring.
In interview, Bear essentially put all his inspiration as ‘the feeling of wonder I had as a child’ and just went and made a bunch of cookie cutter fantasy music. What did one critic say? something like: ‘he set his keyboard to fantasy and just went with it’. That sums it up Perfectly.
I'm late to the party, but your comments on diversity being indicative of a modern, global city are spot on. It always bothered me to see small, isolated locales in a fantasy world with a complete identifiable racial mix of characters. Take Laketown in the Hobbit movies for example. It doesn't work that way. In the real medieval or historical world, people seldom traveled very far from their home, and married and produced children with other locals. The gene pool was very small and typical of the region.
"Darwinian monster midgets that eat their own dead" dude you made me cry, so good, great video, thanks for the awesome content!
Something I've always kept in mind when crafting characters is: Don't make a diverse character. Make a character who happens to be diverse.
It depends. That approach is good when your intention is to portray diversity as normal in a story set in something resembling our modern day world.
Some shows have done a sort of "colorblind" casting, and it works pretty well there.
But there are other stories where a characters otherness (in whatever shape or form) will have a significant impact on the story.
And then, it shouldn't be used at random, but rather in service of the theme of the story.
One character cant be diverse. Thats where modern writers go wrong.
Diverse isn't a great way to think about the character. Diverse means "anything that's not a straight white man". Need a better word.
I think the reason they do so much race mixing in their shows is because you can't have, let say, an all Latino Numenoreans, because the writers of the show NEED need someone to make look weak and stupid, i.e. a white males. That is to say, each "race" in the Rings of Power needs to have white male actors in them, so THOSE same white male actors can be the ones that are used as an example of stupid, weak and/or ineffectual. If you understand Marxism and the Weimar Republic, you know what is going on here, and it ain't good.
@@michaelt.5672of diversity only exist in skin color without some sort of grounded explanation then it's ideological most likely. Besides diversity matter in thought, less so about things you have no control over since they don't actually dictate your actions. I'm not going to treat immutable characteristics as equal to thoughts and actions and I find the people who do are pathetic because it only upsets their sensibilities and those are entirely subjective and therefore not worth using as a metric for anything.
Very excited. Your videos have been highlight of my Youtubing lately.
I’m glad to hear it!
I'll have you know, since finding your channel, I've never been able to refer to Not Galadriel as anything but Mighty Morfydd Power Elf. I've also gotten a friend in on it so all I have to say is MMPE and she knows exactly what I mean. It's the best.
Regarding Numenor's presentation: doesn't anyone else think it's weird that the colossi are overgrown with trees? Numenor is already in a state of quasi-ruin and abandonment.
The biggest crime in this show is still that most elves have no long hair. Having long hair is like the one thing they were described as having isn't it?
long hair is racist duh!
I wouldn't say the biggest crime but I would agree it's one of the biggest crimes against immersion.
No, re long hair. The Elves were frequently described as "the fairest," meaning lightest skin and hair. Currently re-reading Fellowship, and can't recall ANY reference to hair length except on Hobbit feet (which was SUPPOSED to be like HEAD hair, NOT the wiry pubic-like hair Peter Jackson chose, perhaps out of practicality, as it would get dirty and matted awfully fast).
@@StarShine-Ranch things like elf hair color and length are described more in the extended works than LotR.
That's why Legolas' hair color is debated to this day: it's never talked about in LotR.
I don't even care for there being a diverse cast even if it is incorrect to place them there. What i care about is that the elves don't feel like elves at all. Long hair, tall in stature and elegant is what makes me think of elves in the tolkien world. If they had black elves look and feel like this and with just a sliver of personality then i would see no problem. But they don't. All the elves just feel like normal men with posh haircuts.
HOTD made it work with the Velaryon house. So it's definitely possible to make it work in middle earth. But you gotta actually implement what we already know and love about a world and not try and make it new and fresh for a woke audience who don't really care for anything else but modern politics.
It's the same with the dwarfs. I really enjoyed Disa's character. She actually had a personality compared to 99% of the characters. But you could tell they wanted to place a lot of the attention on her over others. And when you've seen who's gotten a lot of time to speak to the media about RoP, you see why. And why couldn't they give them beards?? I tell you, if us women had beards, we'd style that shit so much with all kinds of ornaments, which i would expect from a dwarf lady like Disa. But naaaah.
Well done, sir. I will be tuning into further broadcasts.
Glad to have you along!
Yugioh Abridged fan here. I caught that reference to that freaky fish guy and I’m right there with you, Platoon.
The Sea is Always Right! 🌊
I'm surprised efap doesn't have you on more often considering the dedication you have to breaking down these items.
I’m a year late watching these but I’m guessing there will not be part 3 since it’s been a whole year since last review. Still these brought me to this channel and I look forward to the other series playlist made.
"So tasteless they should test for covid immediately" that was gold
Another I heard from Just Some Guy "So busy being clever that they walked right into Stupid"
Demonstrating this image of Galadriel on 'TV' is spot on. It is the most clear example of show creators not getting what is aestetically pleasing and what isn't on the fundamental level.
Really enjoyed your take on the race conundrum in this show and fantasy in general. I think something which positively affected the Velaryon race-swap in HOTD was the later plot point of Rhaenyra’s children being born to Ser Strong and not her husband, Laenor Velaryon. Her children not being mixed race (such as the children of Rhaenys and Corlys) provides an easier visual cue/reminder for the audience that by Westerosi customs, her children are illegitimate. The race swap had, arguably, a purpose overall in the show.
what gets me about the slave part , at lest lore wise, is the elves would not really care if they die and would rather die then become slaves. they get their bodies back 90% of the time after spending time in their underwold. part of the immortal thing. something that would have made the humans jealous and could have been a good place to show tension between the groups.
“If all it would’ve taken was to equip them with a sombrero and a poncho, then it would’ve made all the battles of the Third Age that much easier.”
I’m just imagining all the orcs on Pellenor Fields garbed in such a way. 😂
Have you seen what they did with orcs in the new Dungeons and Dragons handbooks?
Grima: "Even if we had a massive army it would take many sombreros - thousands - to cover them"
Saruman: "Tens of thousands"
Grima: "But my lord there is no such parcel service"
*Pans over 10.000 Amazon delivery drivers*
I have two annoyances with Corlys:
1) the race swapping of the Valeyrions really does impact that plot, firstly with Rhaneyra's kids by Harwin Strong, the whole point of the story is that its supposed to be ambiguous if they're his kids or Sir Laynor's.
2) the Inconsistency, Baella and Rhella are as Dark Skinned as Lord Corlys despite having a white father and and a white (maternal) grandmother and an uncle (Sir laynor) who was lighter skinned than they were. - as a geneticist by profession and someone with 1/4 black ancestry I can tell you that this isn't how it works. When She was alive people were very taken aback when they realized that my paternal grandmother was black. Depending on how far they want to go with this series (are we going into the Age of Aegon the III?) this will only become a recurring issue leaving the show increasingly more dependent on good acting / writing.
I'll agree with you about the idea of doing a GoT style representation for men, it makes perfect sense but not with the idea of ethnically distinct Elves, I'm a purist I make no apologies about it and being 3/4 Scandinavian I resent the cultural appropriation of our mythology by hack lefty writers so I'm not in the mood for compromise.
I can certainly see the argument - I’m not all that familiar with Martin’s works so that certainly passed me by. I might rephrase the point, then, to emphasise that building in race-swaps to a well-written story makes the general audience *more likely* to forgive said swap, admitting that this doesn’t eliminate all the issues that arise in the long-run.
I find Corlys being black with the white DREADS instead of long flowing hair is cool and different and really makes him unique and stands out as a High Lord. I forgive these choices because the show is genuinely great, but I understand your point on Lucerys/Jacerys - Strong/Leanor
While I agree it’s kind of Jarring seeing black Valerians, because the writing was actually good and the actors were good it didn’t really bother me by the second or third episode
@@TheLittlePlatoon I get your point and the good writing and acting reduced the extent to which it bothered me in HoD.
Its the whole activist thing which annoys me, to the point that I cheered when the writers killed of Jarl Estrid at the end of the 1st series of Vikings Valhalla. Likewise there was an uproar here from the wokies when the cast for an adaptation of a book series set in the 13th century was revealed and it was all white. Well 13th Century Scandinavia was what it was and for the most part still is.
@@NASkeywest Jarring was the very first word that came to mind for me as well, followed by weird.
If Hollywood and streamers care about diversity, where are all the great tales from around the world, collecting dust while waiting for adaptations???
I respect every aspect of your analysis. You've obviously put a great deal of thought into all your points, and it really shows. I could go on and praise multiple aspects of this video, beginning to end, but to keep it short I shall leave it simply as; Excellent work, I'm now subscribed.
Many thanks, and welcome aboard!
Absolutely loved the score breakdown and comparison with howard shore. Really wish you could have played examples of the music to reinforce the point. Keep up the good work!
1:02:10
Sauron could be good if he wanted to. It's just that he never wanted to. In fact, I don't think there was ever anything he wanted less than being good.
As Tolkien describes him, he was less evil than Morgoth only by serving someone else other than himself for a time.
1:54:30 The whole thing with the Builders' Guild (really, they are just avoiding saying "Masons' Guild" for obvious reasons, and I am having the laugh of my life with that detail whenever I think about, because they could avoid it by saying "Architects' Guild" - unless they mean she will be carving and hauling the huge stone blocks, which is even more hilarious to imagine!) is that it is meant to put the two siblings at odds in a roundabout manner: he keeps tossing opportunities left and right, making little headway in life, whereas she manages to get a prestigious post and her father apparently ignores it.
I don't think I need to stress how contrived that is, how silently pseudo-feminist, needed to twist Elendil to be a complete arse who is ignoring his daughter's need for affirmation and respect and all that, so that the writers could then justify her, somehow, siding with the evil racists, in spite of the fact that that makes her complicit in their plotting (hell, she outrightly urges them on too!), merely because she is a neglected woman and therefore merits our approval *_regardless_* of her actions or intent behind them, both of which are deplorable.
Now I have something good to look up to after work. ✨👌
I always thought that since Legolas is the son of the Elven king Thranduil that he had been blessed with abilities that exceed the skill of most other elves. It would make sense considering how a lot of elves don't show any exceptional ability during war scenes but Legolas does.
Really depends on how old the elves are. The first generations were almost gods of war, fighting Balrogs on their own. Legolas and most elves we see fighting during the Third Age would be considered teens at best by elven standards. Which is why you do see them still fight at all. Elrond, Galadriel and the rest of the „old brigade“ are just too fed up with immortality in a world that is dying around them, at least in their eyes.
The creators thought… Legolas can do all this crazy sh!t so we should make that our main character. ! It’ll be awesome and people will HAVE to love her. Problem is Legolas wasn’t liked as much as the other fellowship members. Skill doesn’t translate to likability. To think so is childish folly .
So many videos! And yet the quality doesn't suffer. You are a beast
Keep it up!
Do you remember when in Elder Scrolls you would sometimes use the charisma dialogue option even tho you knew full well it had zero chances of success, since you never gave the charisma stat a single skill point?
Yeah, that was a Ring of Power's Galadriel simulator basically.
The Leitmotif is something I love when used correctly. A great example of it done brilliantly would be Murray Gold and the first five series of Doctor who. The way he'd use the same tune to show connections and emotions just by the difference in tone and pitch was very well done.
Thank you for an incredibly thorough video!
You sound very posh, highly educated, and wise, so I was surprised to hear about your childhood with the discount holidays instead of at Sandringham with Queen Victoria!
I caught approximately the last half of this video as it was premiering, and, as I couldn't watch then, I only listened as though it were an audiobook. Later, I watched it from the beginning. Your editing skills are absolutely phenomenal. Your script is intelligent, witty, and wry. The combination of the two creates a masterpiece! Here are some examples:
06:37 "you go looking again and again" Gimli taking a quick peek around Aragorn to see how far it is to jump at Helm's Deep
08:52 Gimli "why?"
10:02 "Invites you to look" Aragorn holding the palantir
10:34 "I apologize for breaking so quickly from the plot" Saruman shuts his book ...
10:38 "So much has been said about it" shows the Mouth of Sauron.
24:36 The subject is diversity. "You've gotta tick these boxes," shows a quill crossing a line on parchment
"If you don't like these boxes being ticked," shows the middle-aged hobbit couple with the smiling white-haired guy as his grumpy wife approaches "you are probably a racist" with the R word coinciding exactly with her head turn and angry glare.
1:09:42 "The sea cannot commit treason" LOTR scary Galadriel: "Treacherous as the Sea"
Thank you very much of the explanation of why the CGI is questionable. I heard people complaining about it but I didn't understand what the problem was, so thank you!
Thank you also for the explanation of the contrast between the soundtracks of LOTR and ROP!
This was fantastic to watch. Thanks again!
🤩🤣
(Edited to add the : to the timestamps so they turn blue and become actively usable.)
@Simon England my goodness, you write on the same level as The Little Platoon! Maybe you can start your own channel? At the risk of revealing my ignorance and lack of general intelligence, but in the hopes of making you chuckle, I will admit that I had to look up “etymological provenance.” I was confusing etymological with the study of insects, and provenance with a region of France. 😂
I must say, I adore your labels for things and people in this series. So far, I can keep up with the story better by remembering “Prince Harry” than… well, whatever that Dwarf’s name actually was. :). Thank you for making this entertaining - educational and informational works so rarely are.
The Little Platoon, Mauller, and The Drinker are the heros we need in this Age of Insanity and Incompetence
I'm glad I found Platoon, but how was the connection made? Did Drinker discover and invite? I'm happy Platoon joined the discussion.
@@fennglordd6365 Couple of connections; Lord Chord aka The Little Platoon (though the channel is officially two people) appears regularly on the Mr Brown Alliance channel (another reviews channel) & Mr Brown is a mod/ channel member for Drinker.
Plus several of us who are subbed to both Mr Brown & TLP have been mentioning TLP's reviews in Drinker's Open Bar comments for several months, as a great guest (and also just for general quality reviews, for the audience) so one way or another, the connections were made.
The Despot of Antrim. He's pretty new but great stuff. I only found the others after finding him. He's more just about bashing trash, less in depth analysis, but it's always amusing as hell.
Absolutely wonderful analysis!! It's so refreshing to hear such an analysis that's intelligent, provocative, and interesting. Thank you!!!!
I remember leaving the theaters humming the music of each of the PJ's movies, and from movie to movie immediately identifying each one related to each character or people, and i if I heard any of the tunes in RoP I wouldn't know what they were.
The same with costumes. Every single female in this show wears the same type of dress, even the dwarves, wardrobe department is one of the most important ones when it comes to a movie or TV show that wants to represent several different types of peoples / countries/ regions with ease for the audience, and this show, of course, massively fails here too.
Although I can't know how much time & effort you've spent upon making these two Rings-videos, I'd like you to know that I realize that it's significant, and I appreciate it. The results are high-quality and engaging. :)
These long form videos work really well. In a way, they are possibly good as a podcast too. The narration is so clear and concise, missing the visuals shouldn't really matter in following your points.
Fantastic analysis as usual. Especially loved the point about the map... when I first saw that scene I took another look at the map of Mordor and spent quite a while scratching my head about how EVEN IN THEIR OWN CANON anyone would have been able to link the symbol with the location... even if it was the only place you knew about in the world, the symbol did not properly match the location.
there is no point about a map in the entire 2 hour video
THANK YOU. So. Well. Said. You organized every thought and criticism I had while watching part of the show (I boycotted it after Ep 3), but infinitely better than I could have phrased.
“… and he is trying to find work as a smith, this is evidence for his sauron-ness” 😂😂 that’s great lol
Very much appreciated the section on the Score. Really well done. Highlighting the variation (both arrangement and orchestration) in Shore's leitmotifs really illustrates the difference between a great score and an average one.
I still don't know why Numenor has a lighthouse inside the harbor...like well inside. You'd want something like that where there are breakers and shallows on the coast and not on the inside of a well-maintained harbor. Maybe they're going for a Colossus of Rhodes thing but that was a huge and very impressive copper statue signifying the entrance to the harbor.
I guess so you don't run into that isthmus as you sail around to the far side.
Maybe its just a fancy fire🤷♀️
The funniest part about activists taking over shows like this and the game of thrones latter seasons was to witness their unbelievably barren knowledge of how feudal systems, inheritance, titles etc. work. Them making the daughter of an overthrown king "queen regent" is almost as funny as daenerys giving a direct descendent of the former king the stormlands or everyone making Bran king in the end.
You probably won't see this, but: classically trained composer here, I'm happy you have done your research on film soundtracks and how they can help tell a story instead of simply accompanying it. Most people really understate the importance of soundtracks to the memorability and depth of cinema, and I'm glad you understand it to a much more educated extent. Many other reliable critics have just referred to the RoP soundtrack as "too loud" or "too epic for this series" or something along those lines. That being said, I do have some of my own critiques:
The Numenor leitmotif is actually fairly brilliant, it's a melodically and harmonically complex theme that remains catchy and is fairly representative of the splendor of Numenor. The cadence in particular is actually brilliant, and I cant help but feel jealous for not writing it myself. It's honestly a fairly easy theme to adapt to more fast-paced scenes (as if that exists in RoP), and use recognizably in shorter variations. The Amazon overlords probably instructed McCreary to write a theme that was fairly long in its initial exposition so that they could have more time to show off their CGI.
In addition to the Numenor theme, McCreary actually has a lot of other really gorgeous and satisfying motifs that he develops quite nicely in my humble opinion. He has shorter, yet equally recognizable and representative motifs for things ranging from the southlands and khazad-dûm to even the weird little relationship between that unmemorable elf guy whose name I already forgot and the equally unmemorable lady he liked. He retextures and varies these themes cleverly and intelligently throughout the show as he adapts them to different scenarios. My favorite part, though, might be his theme for Sauron. A swirling string ostinato in a shifting, jarring meter undertones a male chorus, chanting in what I can only describe as a wonderfully terrifying harmonic minor with some artificial flats thrown in there just to make it even more dramatic. McCreary's work on this soundtrack is probably most comparable to Michael Giacchino's work on Rogue One; both composers were hired to work on franchises with incredibly iconic musical identities, and both found ways to write unique and original soundtracks that were different from that of Williams and Shore respectively whilst still being respectful of said original musical identity.
Overall, Mr. McCreary did an outstanding job on this show, and I find his soundtrack to be pretty much the only redeeming factor of RoP. In a time where the neo-postromantic film soundtrack like that of Korngold, Steiner, or Williams is beginning to die (e.g. Star Wars replacing their iconic and niche Holst-esque orchestral palette with bladerunner-like synthesizers in Andor, Mando and more despite its integral part in the star wars identity), this is really one of the first soundtracks that have given me hope for the future of film composing in the last several years. Credit where credit's due, I'm glad amazon made the decision to hire McCreary and let him write the style of soundtrack that he did. I hope that Mr. McCreary makes more like this, and that this style of soundtrack has a renaissance whenever holywood moves on from this phase of soft reboots and corporate cash-grabbing content.
9:42 “These are men of Numenor” lol which one, i feel like im lookin into a skittles bag right now with all these different colors
I hope the scene where Galadriel shouts "It's platooning time" will be added in the director's cut version of RoP.
20:33 You are very wrong here. Remember that elves are immortal, and when you say that elves don't breed rapidly it's a huge underestimation. Galadriel, who was born in the First Age, by the time of the end of the Third Age had only one child that we know of (and we are talking about the timespan of around 10 000 years here). Same can be said about Thranduil, another child of the First Age, whose son Legolas we all know on the brink of the Fourth Age and departure of all elves from Middle-Earth.
Galadriel herself was perhaps 5th or 6th generation from the very first elves on Arda. Think about it well, when you bring forward the argument that elves splitting into different tribes/peoples/communities also means them splitting ethnically. That is simply impossible due to the fact that there are not enough generations for a drastic diversity in morphological traits to develop "naturally" (even if we assume that it's a possibility at all with "magic" creatures like elves). Think about the descendants of Dutch colonists in South Africa - they are still very notably white people, they haven't become like the indigenous black people in how many generations, ten, fifteen or even more? It's absolutely not the scale enough for that kind of evolution.
Therefore, creating a whole tribe/kingdom of black elves and pretending that they evolved "naturally" from the original fair-skinned ones, would be an even more disingenuous way of disguising box-ticking diversity casting process and even more dishonest pretense of being "tolkinean" and following the lore than what ROP did.
But otherwise thank you for your video, I'm going to continue enjoying it further now.
He meant that if you must without choice, you could technically say the split ethnically. Only if you absolutely must do so.
Of course there was no reason to do so at all.
@@enightc I don't think it's what he was saying, but if he did like you do, then it's very wrong.
As I've tried to explain, "ethnical splitting" takes a lot of generations even with humans on Earth. You don't change your ethnicity when you start living in a completely different geographical area, and your children or grandchildren won't, unless your family mixes with other ethnicities along the way.
Elves, however, don't intermingle with humans (with exceptions you could count with fingers on one hand) and therefore could not "receive" such morphological characteristics as black skin from the outside. And they wouldn't have enough time to develop it naturally, even if we generously agree that there were elves who decided to live in the open areas with the abundance of sunlight and UV radiation.
Furthermore, don't forget that in Tolkien's world the sun itself appeared relatively late - in fact, that happened already during the lifetime of Galadriel. Therefore, all the preceding generations can be safely excluded from the alleged skin color changing process - there was simply no biological reason for that.
And also don't forget, when we speak about ROP, we speak about events which are much closer to the date of the sun's appearance, than LotR. To be precise, between the creation of sun and forging rings of power only 2100 solar years had passed. In terms of immortal elves it's not enough for even two generations to change!
@@Tallorian I think you took it too literal, he was just saying that if they must add a black person into Elves, then this is what they could have said and most ( not you ) would have said fine, its 0.000001% chance but it is fine, lets just move on.
Its not that they should, just that if they need an excuse.
He spent the entire first 30 minutes describing what they did wrong and how to do it right, to leave it alone and just follow actual geographical societal norms.
That was just one possible 0.000001% possibility of an excuse they could have used but didn't, because the Writers was lazy and don't actually understand anything they are adapting.
@@enightc Just play again the segment I timestamped, what he says there is: "if you want a black elf, make it a part of your world building, make all elves in that region and faction black because then it can be explained by ethnic splitting of elf tribes, and it would greatly diminish force and validity (sic!) of the criticism because even lore-minded fans are ready to forgive such things if the world building is honest, consistent and faithful to the fundamentals of the source material".
Like I've proven above with references to the canon, it's not the case, such "world building" with a whole tribe of black elves would absolutely obliterate the canon and spit on the source material even more than ROP already does with one random diverse elf.
Again, I'm not criticizing TLP in general. He does many great references to the lore, and points to very wrong things in ROP some of which were overlooked by other reviewers. However, in this particular case his knowledge/memory of the lore shows unfortunate gaps, and hence the cure he suggests comes out worse than the disease itself.
P.S. And I do not argue with the general notion that diversity can and should be applied with logic and plausibility in mind, rather than by "metropolitan" mixes of all races in each and every geographical location, like dumb Amazon hacks did in ROP and WoT. That is self-evident, of course.
What I argue about, is only that such rational approach is completely inapplicable in case of Tolkien's elves, simply due to the canon.
@@Tallorian you do understand that we are talking about a show that gives no shits about world building right. And I do get it that you get it.
But what he provided is a possible use if the Writer even thought about it for a second.
We all know that they didn't, but if they had, I wouldn't think it would have been worst.
Many fantasy stories have Dark Elves that were split from Regular Elves, they also have Wood Elves with yellow bark like skin due to Magic
If they had just spent a literal second, it could have all been explained with Magic, but nope, they didn't even want to spent the time to do so.
"And in thine hour long episode, we will load up our belongings and walk exactly 3 blocks." Thrilling
I really enjoyed how deep you dived with lore in your first critique. I think you should continue to include lore in this series simply because it's interesting and enjoyable to listen to.
I know I'm way late but dude as a rural American you can't know just how on point you were about city dwellers calling themselves "citizens of the world" knowing so little of the world outside of the generic international city was. For my honey moon we went to rural Scotland (sorry buddy it beats England in scenery) specifically to avoid as much urbanization as possible since it's all so similar. You got a new sub from me.
Good review! I like how logical, concise and objective you are not playing into the critic baiting that the marketing has been so focused around!