You are welcome. I didn't want to get into the technical side of things because most people would be left scratching their heads or nailing me with details like "oh, but you didn't consider transistor A45XZ. That one is much better." They may well be right, of course, but to the average person, they have no idea what is in any given product nor can they change how that product is made. It's "here it is and this is what we offer" by the manufacturers. So, I was just trying to dispel any preconceived ideas about any design. Just listen to it. Some of the comments have been interesting but recommending a $22,000 integrated amplifier is not exactly the ideal contribution. Many can barely scrape that much up to buy a car much less a piece of audio gear. But, comments that are not insulting or de-constructive are fine. So, if someone can afford that, well, give it a listen. By the way, read the comments and my responses, sometimes the real meal of any topic can be found there.
And old fart of 72 myself, and while it’s been several decades since I was in the retail audio trade myself and enjoyed the privilege of listening to every new and shiny “revolutionary” design, I did spend 20years as a DIYer, which gave me the opportunity to play with affordable toys. My first exposure to Class D was the Kingrex Tripath chip based amp that was trendy in the early ‘00s. It was a pleasant enough sounding basic little 20w or so gadget that paired nicely enough with the high efficiency Fostex based DIY speakers I was playing with at the time, but the combination certainly lacked the viscerality and dynamics of even my Jolida Jd302’s roughly 50wpc. Fast forward about 2 decades from either of those and after a couple of flirtations with cheap Sure and Walcom project modules, my current systems include ICEpower AC200 and Hypex UCD180 kit builds. Has Class D made significant advances at ever more affordable prices? - hell yeah; do they represent the future of a major part of the audio market? - most definitely; are they the best sounding/most musically engaging amps anyone has ever heard? - as Lou says, none of us have or should even attempt to devote the time, energy and dollars to find out. 😂
Thank you for a wonderful contribution and your appreciation of simply enjoy the music and quit worrying about if it is the best. You will drive yourself nuts and in one year, half the models change anyway. Please do subscribe to the channel and please tell other about the other 220 videos we have done.
Thank you. We all have plenty to do and, in my case, my wife just received her second heart transplant after 4 tough years with the first. There have been a lot of trips to the Cleveland Clinic and not all under good circumstances. Likewise, we have a farm with her miniature horses which provides some level sanity and enjoyment for her while providing a lot of work. At one point, I could not even be out in public in Cincinnati without someone approaching me and firing up audio questions. It gave me a minor understanding of what famous people live with all the time. So, now I am doing videos to a wide range of people, around the world, who are simply looking for reasonable advice or insights. Some love the history while others do not, some provide insight and others provide unsubstantiated opinions, and the list goes on and on. Overall, it's been fun to respond to most while doinking a few trolls. But in the end, there is nobody who has heard everything and that's simply the truth. Oh, and I pity anybody who tries.
@audibleeleganceinc great video…You got yourself a new subscriber! I have a Peachtree nova500 which is a class D amplifier and I’ve always been very happy with the sound. I think the argument of class D versus class A/B is silly… It all depends on how the manufacturer develops a quality amplifier. If it sounds good to your ears, then it shouldn’t matter what class it is! Also, a lot of manufacturers are using GAN-fet which may be a game changer… Peachtree is doing this, as well as Orchard Audio and a lot of other manufacturers. So I’m going to rely on what my ears tell me and not worry about amplifier class. Thanks again for a great video!
Thank you for your comment which, really, comes down to experience. Perhaps at the most extreme costs there might be a real difference but that might only be obtainable by, what, 10 people? I prefer to focus upon what a larger audience can enjoy and possibly afford. The primary goal of any good dealer is to find products that have a great design, quality execution, and solid musical performance. Price is irrelevant. It's when price becomes the primary focus that things get all screwed up and the purpose of ownership, to enjoy music, becomes lost. I could probably make a solid case that once we moved beyond the mechanical Edison cylinder to electrical reproduction that purity was lost. I suppose it is kinda like speakers. Unless they are large and weigh a lot, they cannot be good. Thanks for adding your comment to the channel and please do tell others about it as there are over 210 other videos to enjoy with so many more coming.
The Peachtree nova500 is based on ICEPower just as Bel Canto and Rotel for that instance. As I remember, Rotel used different types of ICE modules, where the smaller ones were not that good.
Well, it is not a product that I have heard and so if one can hear it and evaluate it, well, it goes into the ring of consideration. Nice that they are not a zillion dollars. The catch is that they appear to be direct purchase so I am not sure many will be able to hear it before buying. I certainly would look at their return policy before making an order.
Thanks again Lou, another excellent video. I'm with you. I do not believe in many sorts and types of "classification". This even includes how many people judge others. I have a different take on that. I'm more about judging individuals, not their affiliated group assignment, by their observable behavior. Same goes for audio equipment. I want to see it, hear it and while I've a brain, my ears are in charge of that/those decisions. One tweak? Toward the end of the video you state you can't speak to other product lines. I believe you can speak to - about Rogue Audio. They're Class D, correct?
@@zizendorf I am not going to go down this rabbit's hole of how things are defined. Frankly, I really don't care which is the point of the video. It's how it performs and I think we both agree that it does it quite well. Price is never a good guide as well. Nothing personal but after 40 years of listening to audiophiles argue about this or that, I am pretty burned out on such things. The really funny thing is that many of them neither own nor can afford what they are arguing about yet expect me to stand there listening to them and sometimes for hours. As you well know, I have far more important things on my mind like my wife's health.
@@audibleeleganceinc Thanks, but I think you overestimate my knowledge and understanding of the science and engineering of technical - "specifications - stuff", empirical audio assessment. I'm quite ignorant of this particular field of scientific study.
Pro audio is ALL class D except for a few exceptions. In 2003 d&b Audiotechnik released the D12, their first class D amplifier and that wasn't the first class D on the market but it became a staple of a reliable, goid sounding class D amp that could be seen on the world's most prestigious tours. At home i have a Hypex powered Marantz which does its job perfectly.
Thank you for your contribution to the channel. Interesting to hear what is going on in the Pro audio world. I don't really follow it so it was all fresh news to me. Please do subscribe and tell others about our channel. With over 210 videos up, I am sure there is something for everyone.
Well, I would hope that at $22,000 US that it would perform well as would any class of amplifier. I have not heard it so I have no further comment about the product and will let others, who can afford it evaluate it. I am interested in helping the whole range of folks who can afford a wide range of products and certainly those that are more affordable. This brings me to an important point. Only ask for demonstrations of products you can afford immediately or in the reasonable future. Salespeople are there to help you and to make a living. They are not attendants at a museum of contemporary audio.
@@cl65captain Thank you for pointing out a couple of things for me. Before I write them, I have not heard either of these two products so I am not qualified to comment anything about them or either observation. However, it does bring up the thought that merely because an item contains this chip, or that transistor, does not guarantee or deny the end results. Power supplies, circuit designs and other things all vary. Nor does price guarantee results. I've commented numerous times about a KIA with a gold steering wheel. Sure it is expensive as a Porsche but does it drive as well? Some products can be built with very expensive parts and with good intentions that have poor results. Even how various parts have regulated power supplies themselves can have quite an effect. In the end, it is about listening to it and deciding if it is worth the money asked and if you wish to spend your money that way. That is always a personal call of the customer. All I can do is present it in an honest and fair way to let the customer decide.
I live in england I don't care how pretty or ugly things are it's all about the sound per pound for me I only have 1 pair of english speakers they are avi trio but the best sounding speakers i have are from norway i have two big-ish power amps they are from classe audio- older model 201's and a rogue audio pre amp{ valve} my cd player is from califonia op res 21 and a linn turn table you know the one nearly all of this is bought used n serviced except norways speakers that came direct from the manufacturer's website a denafrips dac and a apple i pad for streaming all cables are purchased used mid to high endish i close my eyes in my office recline and listen - happy days
Thanks for addressing my inquiry. 👍
You are welcome. I didn't want to get into the technical side of things because most people would be left scratching their heads or nailing me with details like "oh, but you didn't consider transistor A45XZ. That one is much better." They may well be right, of course, but to the average person, they have no idea what is in any given product nor can they change how that product is made. It's "here it is and this is what we offer" by the manufacturers. So, I was just trying to dispel any preconceived ideas about any design. Just listen to it.
Some of the comments have been interesting but recommending a $22,000 integrated amplifier is not exactly the ideal contribution. Many can barely scrape that much up to buy a car much less a piece of audio gear. But, comments that are not insulting or de-constructive are fine. So, if someone can afford that, well, give it a listen.
By the way, read the comments and my responses, sometimes the real meal of any topic can be found there.
And old fart of 72 myself, and while it’s been several decades since I was in the retail audio trade myself and enjoyed the privilege of listening to every new and shiny “revolutionary” design, I did spend 20years as a DIYer, which gave me the opportunity to play with affordable toys. My first exposure to Class D was the Kingrex Tripath chip based amp that was trendy in the early ‘00s. It was a pleasant enough sounding basic little 20w or so gadget that paired nicely enough with the high efficiency Fostex based DIY speakers I was playing with at the time, but the combination certainly lacked the viscerality and dynamics of even my Jolida Jd302’s roughly 50wpc.
Fast forward about 2 decades from either of those and after a couple of flirtations with cheap Sure and Walcom project modules, my current systems include ICEpower AC200 and Hypex UCD180 kit builds. Has Class D made significant advances at ever more affordable prices? - hell yeah; do they represent the future of a major part of the audio market? - most definitely; are they the best sounding/most musically engaging amps anyone has ever heard? - as Lou says, none of us have or should even attempt to devote the time, energy and dollars to find out. 😂
Thank you for a wonderful contribution and your appreciation of simply enjoy the music and quit worrying about if it is the best. You will drive yourself nuts and in one year, half the models change anyway.
Please do subscribe to the channel and please tell other about the other 220 videos we have done.
I loved that last line!
Thank you. We all have plenty to do and, in my case, my wife just received her second heart transplant after 4 tough years with the first. There have been a lot of trips to the Cleveland Clinic and not all under good circumstances. Likewise, we have a farm with her miniature horses which provides some level sanity and enjoyment for her while providing a lot of work.
At one point, I could not even be out in public in Cincinnati without someone approaching me and firing up audio questions. It gave me a minor understanding of what famous people live with all the time. So, now I am doing videos to a wide range of people, around the world, who are simply looking for reasonable advice or insights. Some love the history while others do not, some provide insight and others provide unsubstantiated opinions, and the list goes on and on. Overall, it's been fun to respond to most while doinking a few trolls. But in the end, there is nobody who has heard everything and that's simply the truth. Oh, and I pity anybody who tries.
@audibleeleganceinc great video…You got yourself a new subscriber! I have a Peachtree nova500 which is a class D amplifier and I’ve always been very happy with the sound. I think the argument of class D versus class A/B is silly… It all depends on how the manufacturer develops a quality amplifier. If it sounds good to your ears, then it shouldn’t matter what class it is! Also, a lot of manufacturers are using GAN-fet which may be a game changer… Peachtree is doing this, as well as Orchard Audio and a lot of other manufacturers. So I’m going to rely on what my ears tell me and not worry about amplifier class. Thanks again for a great video!
Thank you for your comment which, really, comes down to experience. Perhaps at the most extreme costs there might be a real difference but that might only be obtainable by, what, 10 people? I prefer to focus upon what a larger audience can enjoy and possibly afford. The primary goal of any good dealer is to find products that have a great design, quality execution, and solid musical performance. Price is irrelevant. It's when price becomes the primary focus that things get all screwed up and the purpose of ownership, to enjoy music, becomes lost.
I could probably make a solid case that once we moved beyond the mechanical Edison cylinder to electrical reproduction that purity was lost. I suppose it is kinda like speakers. Unless they are large and weigh a lot, they cannot be good.
Thanks for adding your comment to the channel and please do tell others about it as there are over 210 other videos to enjoy with so many more coming.
The Peachtree nova500 is based on ICEPower just as Bel Canto and Rotel for that instance.
As I remember, Rotel used different types of ICE modules, where the smaller ones were not that good.
@@bimsetre Thank you for your explanation about that. I appreciate the additional information.
@@bimsetre I will say the Peachtree nova500 is sweet! Excellent amp!
The Orchard GaN Class D amps are incredible and will stand against any Class A/B amp of the same power and even most Class A amps.
Well, it is not a product that I have heard and so if one can hear it and evaluate it, well, it goes into the ring of consideration. Nice that they are not a zillion dollars. The catch is that they appear to be direct purchase so I am not sure many will be able to hear it before buying. I certainly would look at their return policy before making an order.
Thanks again Lou, another excellent video. I'm with you. I do not believe in many sorts and types of "classification". This even includes how many people judge others. I have a different take on that. I'm more about judging individuals, not their affiliated group assignment, by their observable behavior. Same goes for audio equipment. I want to see it, hear it and while I've a brain, my ears are in charge of that/those decisions. One tweak? Toward the end of the video you state you can't speak to other product lines. I believe you can speak to - about Rogue Audio. They're Class D, correct?
Indeed, Rogue Audio has been using Class D amplification since 2012. They are using it in hybrid combinations.
@ Does “hybrid” mean something, that it’s not Class D?
@@zizendorf Read the Rogue reviews. You will see what they mean.
@@zizendorf I am not going to go down this rabbit's hole of how things are defined. Frankly, I really don't care which is the point of the video. It's how it performs and I think we both agree that it does it quite well. Price is never a good guide as well.
Nothing personal but after 40 years of listening to audiophiles argue about this or that, I am pretty burned out on such things. The really funny thing is that many of them neither own nor can afford what they are arguing about yet expect me to stand there listening to them and sometimes for hours. As you well know, I have far more important things on my mind like my wife's health.
@@audibleeleganceinc Thanks, but I think you overestimate my knowledge and understanding of the science and engineering of technical - "specifications - stuff", empirical audio assessment. I'm quite ignorant of this particular field of scientific study.
Pro audio is ALL class D except for a few exceptions.
In 2003 d&b Audiotechnik released the D12, their first class D amplifier and that wasn't the first class D on the market but it became a staple of a reliable, goid sounding class D amp that could be seen on the world's most prestigious tours.
At home i have a Hypex powered Marantz which does its job perfectly.
Thank you for your contribution to the channel. Interesting to hear what is going on in the Pro audio world. I don't really follow it so it was all fresh news to me.
Please do subscribe and tell others about our channel. With over 210 videos up, I am sure there is something for everyone.
Purifi Eigantakt amp modules is a giant killer. See Aurender AP20.
Well, I would hope that at $22,000 US that it would perform well as would any class of amplifier. I have not heard it so I have no further comment about the product and will let others, who can afford it evaluate it. I am interested in helping the whole range of folks who can afford a wide range of products and certainly those that are more affordable.
This brings me to an important point. Only ask for demonstrations of products you can afford immediately or in the reasonable future. Salespeople are there to help you and to make a living. They are not attendants at a museum of contemporary audio.
What a joke. $22k. I have a 3-channel Buckeye Amp for my theater that uses the same Purifi Eigantakt modules…. $1200.
@@cl65captain Thank you for pointing out a couple of things for me. Before I write them, I have not heard either of these two products so I am not qualified to comment anything about them or either observation.
However, it does bring up the thought that merely because an item contains this chip, or that transistor, does not guarantee or deny the end results. Power supplies, circuit designs and other things all vary. Nor does price guarantee results. I've commented numerous times about a KIA with a gold steering wheel. Sure it is expensive as a Porsche but does it drive as well? Some products can be built with very expensive parts and with good intentions that have poor results. Even how various parts have regulated power supplies themselves can have quite an effect.
In the end, it is about listening to it and deciding if it is worth the money asked and if you wish to spend your money that way. That is always a personal call of the customer. All I can do is present it in an honest and fair way to let the customer decide.
I live in england I don't care how pretty or ugly things are it's all about the sound per pound for me I only have 1 pair of english speakers they are avi trio but the best sounding speakers i have are from norway i have two big-ish power amps they are from classe audio- older model 201's and a rogue audio pre amp{ valve} my cd player is from califonia op res 21 and a linn turn table you know the one nearly all of this is bought used n serviced except norways speakers that came direct from the manufacturer's website a denafrips dac and a apple i pad for streaming all cables are purchased used mid to high endish i close my eyes in my office recline and listen - happy days