Hey guys! Ignazio from Jensen here. Catchin' up a little late on this video, for a number of reasons I've been off the web for a while... Very interesting, as always Dan & Mick! Here a few comments from my most nerdy/techie point of view. 1) Thanks for your nice comments on the Jensen Blackbird 100 in the CaliTweed. It is indeed a wonderful speaker that can take almost anything you feed him with. Fat, powerful, huge dynamics , detailed, balanced... it's got a lot of virtues. About Dan's comment on its "break-up" (or lack of): it's a 100W speaker with a 2" voice coil. It's designed to smoothly, progressively add a touch of musical compression, without breaking up in a wild, uncontrollable fashion, unless you're really hitting him with 2 or 3 times the output power either the Cali Tweed and the DC-30 can generate. at the level it was being played, the BB100 was just doing its job: sounding fine and smoothly "massaging" the tone with a bit of chime and compression. 2) The current (newer) generation of Mesa California Tweed moved from the BB100 to the newer Blackbird 40, either in 12" and 10" sizes. Reason why? The BB40 wasn't available when the California Tweed was designed. It's a newer product. When it came out, the Mesa boys tested it and found themselves puzzled. Some of them preferred the BB40, others the BB100. They decided to change as the BB40 is more on a "vintage vibe" rather than a "boutique vibe". The BB100 is more relaxed and refined, while the BB40 is rawer, has more presence and aggression and a tighter bass end. They felt that it could shift the California Tweed more towards a traditional vintage-oriented potential customer. And they use the BB40 12 and 10 also for the new Gibson Falcon amps. 3) Talking about the amp side of the video, I had very similar experiences in mixing and matching preamps and power amps using the efx loops: certain combinations are really interesting, some are "ok", some seem broken. The main reason reason why, we suspect being a wild variance of the effect loop circuitry. Some are active, buffered, some are passive, high impedance. Some are hot, some are weak. Some are flat in terms of frequency response, some are not; we've measured certain EFX Sends to have emphasis on the treble range, and their EFX Return to have de-emphasis on the same frequencies. This in an attempt to reduce noise. they work well together, but if you feed a flat response EFX Return with a treble boosted EFX Send... you'll find bad tone. Just as an example. Not all mix/matches can be done... the Mesa loop is active, buffered. Not sure about the Matchless one. Maybe a unity gain buffer right after the DC30 Send output could change the scenario? Have fun and keep experimenting!
Regarding the Matchless preamp into the Boogie power amp - two things: the Matchless pre is un-attenuated and un-buffered (which means high output impedance) and the Boogie effects return has a low input impedance (not familiar with this particular Boogie, but in general I believe this is the case with Boogie effects returns...but I stand to be corrected). So the massive output of the Matchless preamp is not only very susceptible to high end loss from cables, but because of the impedance mis-match it can not drive the Boogie return stage properly. A high output impedance into a low input impedance means a very large part of the signal is lost. Great shows guys - hope all is well!
@@ThatPedalShow Ha! I'll also mention that if you put a buffer after the Matchless preamp this would fix the issue. Only thing is finding a buffer that can handle the massive output voltage from the Matchless send! As it happens you have one though - the tube buffer I made for one of your shows on Buffers (it's called the "Flying Buttress"). Give that a try if you do a similar thing in the future. Cheers guys!
whenever you are asked what speakers and amps to match, you tend to say that the manufacturer usually designs their amps to work with the speakers they choose, or something in that vain. I think you guys are proving that point with these episodes. Yeah, it gives a sound. But it's a whole ecosystem and you can just hear when the amps are in their happy place
You’ve got it spot on right there. Listening to a Hiwatt into a Fane type speaker and then into a Greenback is a stunning experience, but then you realise why those speakers are commonly paired with those amps. And you’re right, it is a whole ecosystem, with each part (hopefully) morphing with the next to create something beautiful.
TPS mad audio science, love these videos, really proving how the whole eco systems of amps, speaker, guitar works is great. This is stuff you learn over years of playing but never really think about. I've messed with Heads and different cabs but never considered doing this with a head and combo or two combo amps. It's all part of the sound, pre, power, speakers, cables, pedals, pick, fingers, all of it.
I agree. As far as combo amps, and 1x12 , 2x12 cabs, just taking them off the ground, really changed how I hear and can use different amps. I found a lot of problems I had with low end, on certain amps, would disappear just by putting the amp on a stand. I can barely stand to play an amp on the ground, because I can’t hear it as well, as it sounds muffled in comparison, unless it’s mic’d and I have a monitor in front of me. Every single person I got to try their amp with an angled stand, have never went back. If I don’t have a stand, I put it in a chair, stool, etc. For smaller gigs, I can be heard well, at a lower volume, and I can hear myself better, for when there’s no FOH. Just a speaker for the vocals.
I have a California tweed and was so impressed by the blackbird that I put one in my homemade 5e3. I also have a Jenson P12Q in a blues deluxe reissue. For me, the speakers make these amps great.
I enjoyed the camera angles of you guys individually playing. You could really see some great details in the guitars don't know how long that's been a thing but it's great!
It sounds that the Cali Tweed pre is more gainy and creamy than the HC-30, but Matchless's power section is way more efficient. My preference goes to Cali pre, Matchless power amp through the Vox speakers. Thanks a lot guys for this kind of video, because this is the beauty of experimentation!
Saw John Mayer in Dublin last night. For his acoustic show he had a Dumble Overdrive Special into a two rock cab and a vintage vibroverb. Used them for 2 mins whole show. How the 1% live!!!
I've owned the 40w mesa cali tweed...regretted selling it and bought the 20 W Cali tweed...great amp, but I needed more...The TPS buzz about wet/dry has me now running Victory VC35 35 Copper head and cab with a Fender PR....huge sound with the wet dry set up...the clarity of the PR (dry) matched with the effected VC35 is something special...I have TPS to thank...so thank you guys from BC, Canada! Side note: I run the Radial Engineering ABY--it was needed :)
Very interesting, really enjoying the sound of the EL84 power section mostly with the Matchless preamp. I've had plenty of EL84 amps (Ampeg, Fender Blues junior and others) but never got along with them. Vox brings me to my happy place.
Mick, I get so nervous when I see someone put a guitar, especially a Gibson with the slanted headstock, on a stool! 😅 Another great show, thank you both!!
Why leave out the Fryette Power Station (visible in the back)? It is a 50W power amp with a pair of 6L6s in addition to being a power attenuator and a post-power-amp effects loop.
@@Robstafarian They did 6L6s last time. But I'm surprised the Power Station never comes out, maybe D&M find it too bland (and they usually put their effects into the front).
@@pd4165 What Mick and Dan, along with the vast majority of guitarists, do not understand this is that the power tubes themselves are less significant than the circuit which surrounds them-including the output transformer. Dave Friedman himself has said many times that he would have stopped using EL34s years ago, were it not for his customers demanding them as though they were essential. That even TPS preserves the knowledge gaps which most guitarists have is one reason why I plan to launch a show on a bespoke channel specifically to teach guitarists about gear.
I just picked up a second hand Boogie Cali Tweed 4:40 and am having great results using Victory Sheriff and Copper V4 preamps through the effects loop. Great Fender, Vox and Marshall tones through one amp, thanks for the ideas and inspiration!
Love this series of amp mash ups. My choice: any of the two pre-amps, EL84 power section, Celestion Blue cabinet. The last two to add some mids to the game, which are lacking imo in the Mesa configuration.
I’m loving this series. About a year ago I got a UAFX Woodrow and have it setup in 4 cable method with the speaker emulations off to give me another two preamp channels as it were. But my issue was that I play through a weird hybrid system that I built. I have a Blues Deluxe combo with the original 12” speaker moved to the side and have added an 8” Jensen C8R which is actually powered by a Joyo Tweedy 2. The Blues deluxe is my wet sound and the Tweedy is my dry. I never liked having different preamps for the wet and dry so I built an extra foot switch that I can use to switch between Tweedy or BDRI preamps, which then goes into the Woodrow, and then splits into wet and dry and back to the power amps. This effectively gives me more channels than I could ever want or need, but god it’s fun! Obviously I’m a home hobbyist and not a gigging musician, but routed under my desk this is super fun.
The Tele sounds so good thru the Matchless that makes sence because they were made for Jorgenson back in Desert Rose Band Days.Main thought would like to hear a head to head.Dan love your bends and pure joy you have .You and Tim Pierce have such expressive joy when playing.This was cool You and Mick are top shelf.Have you two ever got in a fight or disagreement?Asking for a friend.
I have a Divided By 13 JRT9/15, which is a pentode (5879) preamp into either a 9 watt 6V6 and 15 watt EL84 power section that you can switch between. The 6V6 section has less headroom, more gain, and has less top end than the EL84 section which has the top end chime I associate with Vox amps. My favorite is the 6V6 because it gives you a bit of the Vox flavor with the pentode preamp being at least somewhat similar to the EF86 channel, but then you get more Tweed grind from the power section. It gives a brighter, more refined Tweed tone at least to me.
Speakers are the final gear obsession. After you've been into guitars, amps and pedals your gaze rotates like the eye of Sauron and you're suddenly like....SPEAKERS. What seemed like the most incidental, boring gear when you were 20 becomes the most compelling one of all. We play an acoustic instrument after all, it's just that the acoustic part is not on the guitar, it's the cab and speakers.
There is lately many topics "is this worth it, is that worth it", whatever it is. Those two vintage Alnico speakers are worth EVERYTHING ... Man a Live, what a magic they produce
Great show as always! You should try one of those little hybrid £99 Orange amps with the value pre. Mine has been a great way to get a different tone for recording into my Victory Kraken's power amp. Maybe an episode with more budget friendly amps? Bassbreaker, Marshall Origin ect
I'm very happy to see/hear the Jensen Blackbird 100, since it's one of the only non-Celestion drivers I would consider using. In the first comparison, I preferred both guitars though the Mesa/Jensen, but honestly, I didn't hear anything that was bad in any of the combinations. I think the comparison I want to hear most is a Jensen Blackbird and a Celestion AlNiCo Cream.
The cheap in me is saying 'get a 2*12 Katana and use its effect return'. It would be good to hear it duking it out with a nice valve amp (and to get it away from its cheapo speakers).
Great episode, and it's nice to see that in some cases the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Swapping cabs is an option, but I like to just run 2 different amps - a 6L6/6V6 and a EL84 so you get the best of both worlds. Also not only do the levels very wildly on effects send returns, but also so does the quality - some are well executed and others are meh... not naming names...
I mix a Carol Ann OD3r and a Black star artist 20. I go right into the effects loop return of the blackstar from the stereo side of the Bluesky that is also in the loop of the Carol Ann. Sounds glorious. No hum. Amps just happen to have same polarity.
Both of these shows have been very revealing, but agreeing that the options from the 1st episode were more usable - in general. But as Mick pointed out: some killer trackable tones here (explaining once again why little broken, caved in amps sound so amazing in a studio recording. Got a luthier friend who built an amp where the front end is Plexi hitting a 6v6 section: it takes that thing we love about Plexi's into almost a Hiwatt level kind of volume/resilience. It is good to try things, so thanks again. Sending love to chainsaw man. Did ya'll check his pedal board already?
Another great sonically challenging experiment! I love my Cali Tweed and the variable tweed sounds from the multi-watt, but I agree with Mick that a 2x12 Jensen Alnico would be amazing. What I interpret from in the Cali Tweed manual, as Mick said, gain and master controls are "Optimized" to SEND to the "widest range" of pedals and a need to use the effect's "Input and Output level controls." In a sense, the guitarist having to play the role of both (pre-SEND) gain and master controls. Despite the Matchless' preamp sort of acting like both the Boogie's (pre-SEND) gain control and the effect's output level control, the "Processor's levels are set to low" without increasing the Matchless preamp as well as the Boogie's "Optimized" (pre-SEND) Master missing from the signal chain. On the other hand, I likely have this all wrong. 🤣
Gents, it could be that the Mesa's power amp is quiet with the Matchless's preamp because Mesa's "series" loops are actually still somewhat parallel. This is a well-known aspect of Mesa's amps, and it is specifically mentioned in the manuals for Synergy's SYN-1 and SYN-2 preamp-module chassis.
Back when I didn't mind carrying a lot of gear, I used a super reverb and a 58 tweed deluxe and a Leslie. My back and knees hurt thinking about it, but damn, I sounded good.
'With apologies for chainsaw guy'. My initial reaction was 'I know that Telecaster sounds a bit savage but there was no need to to rude!' ........ Then I realised what Mick was actually referring to. 😊😊
I love my CA Tweed 4:40. Entirely Mick's fault for pointing me this way a year or two back. At $2,400, it was a major purchase for me. It was the best money I have ever spent outside of paying $75 to Match (dating site) to meet my best friend and life partner. I love you guys! Please keep the show going. I've bought 4/5 tee shirts. The quality of my 'effected' shirt is so impressive. I have also bought multiple pedals including the D&M drive. I was curious about your markup on gear. I'm assuming that you get at least 25% of the pedal cost? I figure its a good way to get you cash on something I would purchase anyhow. It may be helpful if sometimes you hint at the margin differences between buying a shirt or gear. You don't push the pedal shop like you push the tshirts\'merch'. I try to buy my gear from you as much as possible. I wish I could have bought the amp from you. Love you guys : )
Mick - I don't know this for sure, haven't seen schematics, but Mesa almost always biases power tubes quite "cold" compared to most other manufacturers (if 70% plate dissipation is "normal," Mesas are frequently less than half of that) ... and on a Vox-based amp like the Matchless, I'd expect the power section to be running close to always-on Class A, something like 85-90% of max, because cathode-biased EL84s having the utter hell hammered out of them is a huge part of the "Voxy" thing. Mesa's looking for clarity, dependability, and tube life from most of its power sections (especially in its high-gain channel-switching amps, where the preamp IS "the tone" & the power section just needs to make the preamp louder), whereas most Voxy amps rely heavily on the sound of the power amp flirting with catastrophe.
Yeah, when you switch the Cali Tweed preamp between the Matchless & Mesa power sections - you can hear a layer of high-harmonic "zzzzhhhh" with the Matchless that goes away with the thicker fuzzier Mesa, and I think that's the sound of EL84s screaming for their lives vs. 6V6s with plenty of room left before they'd start distorting.
An interesting (I hope) post-script: I was just reading a Mesa/Boogie manual for a different amp, and they mentioned that if you want to use the amp as a power section + cab via the FX Return, you should plug a small patch cable into the FX Send & leave the other end unplugged. Apparently, the Send part of loop circuit can load down + attenuate the Return section if you're only using the Return!
They are remodelling the building next door. It's constant large items hitting the dumpster. AHHHHHHH It's bad enough that Barley likes to sing every time I pick up any guitar. 4x6V6 max power without going over spec would be 28-30W. The Blackbird 100W Alnico is rated at 97.7dB 1W/1M and dual Blue would be 110dB 1W/1M if they are both 16 ohms (really 15 ohms) in parallel. Dan wouldn't worry about the blues... at 30W output your dB meter would be telling you to leave the room :) The gain of 4xEL84 is so much higher than 4x6V6, especially since I think the Matchless has no feedback. Remember speaker breakup has to do with the xMax variable which is the max distance the voice can move the cone. This is usually 1mm but really who knows. Thanks guys!
I sort of have a "Matchless DC5" with my Synergy SYN-1 chassis, Salvation Audio MatchVox 2.0 preamp module, and Jet City Custom 5 head (effects loop, post-loop volume, single-ended EL34 without negative feedback). In fact, that is pretty much the Jet City's job now.
I like the Vox’s two Celestion Blue’s way more than the single Jensen in the Mesa cab. Love the Mesa as a combo! The mismatching between preamps, powersections and cabs, to me, sounds less interesting’ than in the previous video. Except for the mesa Mesa preamp into the Matchless poweramp and cab, but only for ZZ Top songs with both the Les Paul and Tele😄. 🖖
That Chain Saw Show? - nah. Can't hear it. But maybe that's because a neighbor had a huge old tree cut down - two days of chain sawing and I got to where I was ignoring it. Have you thought of inviting the chain saw guy to come in? Just don't let him bring his chain saw along. Thanks for doing these experiments. The Les Paul into the Matchless was AWESOME !!!
The “caving in” is normally why I shy away from EL84 amps. They always feel choked and lack the headroom I prefer. Of course it depends on the amp and overall design, but it’s an observation that seems pretty consistent from my experience.
If this is going to turn into a series, I can't express how much I'm down for it. I'd love to hear the Fender Deluxe RI and your Super Reverb, or using the HiWatt and Audio Kitchen heads into different cabs. Could call the series Mix & Match?
For clarification. In order to use this method for a wet-dry-wet setup I will need 6 amps with effects loops, 3 speaker cabinets, 3 load boxes, and a new electrical service panel? Just want to make sure I m not missing anything, the wife is going to have questions and I need to have an answer prepared.
Don't worry, the chainsaw guy's probably just Mick Gordon (DOOM 2016, Killer Instinct 2013, Wolfenstein: The New Order) doing crazy sound design work for whatever insane project is next!
Everytime I watch one of your vids - I change my mind lol. Im after a REALLY nice 1x12 combo - pedal platform, primarily home use. Im not worried about volume as such - I do p[lay loud at home (100db regular and often over) and have a Fryette P{wer Station I can use to either decrease a loud or increase a quiet amp. So far, I want a TR Studio Sig, a Matchless something, a Mesa, a Marshall, and many others lol. Im kind of lost. Blackstarts Artisans (not artist) seem to go for cheap (for a hand wired P2P) which Im considering, but also Hamstead on top of the others mentioned. I have no idea what I really want having not used valves for 15 years lol. Pedal choices will come after the amp choice, but said amp must have a nice clean and take pedals well.
I have a question a little off topic but here it goes. The question I have is about paring amps for wet-dry. I was thinking one day what id you pared two very different amps. So my question is what if you pared a old vintage tweed inspired amp and a Vox AC30. One has the ear piercing highs were the other has big and beefy lows. Would it sound bad or out of this world, please make a video on it or visit the idea in a live. Thank you.
BTW I could not bond with my VOX AC15 C1 at all. Always struggling with it. Then I swapped the speaker for a Jensen P12R RI and I could not be happier! :D
Hey D&M! I'm looking for a new set of pickups for my Epiphone Les Paul 50's. I love the guitar and the way it feels/plays, but I've wanted to upgrade the pickups and electronics for some time now. I'm looking for something lower output than the stock pickups, that will give me a warm, full, and clear tone - for example, I've always loved the tone of Mick's blonde 335 since he did the pickup swap. I play mostly low gain blues and clean stuff through a Victory V40 Deluxe. I've looked into a few options, and my favorites have come down to the following: Lollar Imperial/Low Wind Imperial, Monty's Guitars PAF's, Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays, and Total Gravy Guitarworks Early PAF's. I'm wondering if either of you have any thoughts as to what would be a good replacement?
This reminds me of something, a long time ago there was mention of doing a comparison of solid state amps and tube amps using solid state OD pedals into the tube amp and tube OD pedals into the solid state amp. Would love to see something like that if there's any chance.
Or even dare I say a digital modeled preamp (hx stomp for example) to see if the analogue power amp and real speaker provide the visceral experience. Could be a rabbit hole but also interesting to understand. … Update. No don’t bother. Just tried at home with various helix preamps into my bad cat power section. Did not like any of them (even though I like the Helix itself !). I predict that you would be quite uninspired !
I took Bruce Egnater’s amps building class a while back. We talked about mesa’s fx loops. And some aren’t ideal. But he also has an amp that has 3 tone stacks you could switch between. Pretty sure it was fender, Marshall, and vox. And that made a surprising difference. If you also swapped the speakers to something those amps normally use, it probably would have been super close. Anyway it was an awesome class and I highly recommend it for anyone more interesting in how amps work. And you don’t need to have ever even held a soldering iron before. He’ll walk you through it.
I own a (built in February) 68 Bandmaster that has an AB763 preamp in it and 6L6 power tubes. I am thinking of modding it by adding an effects loop prior to the phase inverter. I want to mix / match it with my Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp (the same circuit as Mesa’s Double and Triple Rectifier) and my Mesa 20/20 power amp. If I understand the schematic correctly, the power amp will be wide open on the Bandmaster if I feed it the Recto Preamp’s signal. Just like the Cali Tweed acted in your video. Could I add a volume pot after the loop to vary the volume on the Bandmaster’s power section when using the Boogie preamp? If not, could I insert a volume pedal after the Bandmaster preamp’s send to accomplish the same function?
Have to say, (vintage) Blues are great speakers! I am having my 5e3 rebuilt, and have a Blue in the cabinet. Can’t wait to hear it! Not sure if it’s how broken they are, because the Jensen sounds really good. It’s just the top end sizzle…? Blues have a smoothness that is amazing.
I may just be a simpleton but these vids have tought me that I LOVE MY DELUXE REVERB.
Hey guys! Ignazio from Jensen here. Catchin' up a little late on this video, for a number of reasons I've been off the web for a while...
Very interesting, as always Dan & Mick! Here a few comments from my most nerdy/techie point of view.
1) Thanks for your nice comments on the Jensen Blackbird 100 in the CaliTweed. It is indeed a wonderful speaker that can take almost anything you feed him with. Fat, powerful, huge dynamics , detailed, balanced... it's got a lot of virtues. About Dan's comment on its "break-up" (or lack of): it's a 100W speaker with a 2" voice coil. It's designed to smoothly, progressively add a touch of musical compression, without breaking up in a wild, uncontrollable fashion, unless you're really hitting him with 2 or 3 times the output power either the Cali Tweed and the DC-30 can generate. at the level it was being played, the BB100 was just doing its job: sounding fine and smoothly "massaging" the tone with a bit of chime and compression.
2) The current (newer) generation of Mesa California Tweed moved from the BB100 to the newer Blackbird 40, either in 12" and 10" sizes. Reason why? The BB40 wasn't available when the California Tweed was designed. It's a newer product. When it came out, the Mesa boys tested it and found themselves puzzled. Some of them preferred the BB40, others the BB100. They decided to change as the BB40 is more on a "vintage vibe" rather than a "boutique vibe". The BB100 is more relaxed and refined, while the BB40 is rawer, has more presence and aggression and a tighter bass end. They felt that it could shift the California Tweed more towards a traditional vintage-oriented potential customer.
And they use the BB40 12 and 10 also for the new Gibson Falcon amps.
3) Talking about the amp side of the video, I had very similar experiences in mixing and matching preamps and power amps using the efx loops: certain combinations are really interesting, some are "ok", some seem broken. The main reason reason why, we suspect being a wild variance of the effect loop circuitry. Some are active, buffered, some are passive, high impedance. Some are hot, some are weak. Some are flat in terms of frequency response, some are not; we've measured certain EFX Sends to have emphasis on the treble range, and their EFX Return to have de-emphasis on the same frequencies. This in an attempt to reduce noise. they work well together, but if you feed a flat response EFX Return with a treble boosted EFX Send... you'll find bad tone. Just as an example. Not all mix/matches can be done... the Mesa loop is active, buffered. Not sure about the Matchless one. Maybe a unity gain buffer right after the DC30 Send output could change the scenario?
Have fun and keep experimenting!
What a great breakdown! I have the Cali Tweed with the BB100 and I'm glad it's that one (for me personally). Good points about effects loops, thanks.
Somewhere…Joe Bonamassa’s tech is hoping he NEVER sees this video 😂😂
Super job lads….loving it!!!
Hi
Thank you guys
I am from Iran, enjoying and learning about your videos a lot
Welcome!
Regarding the Matchless preamp into the Boogie power amp - two things: the Matchless pre is un-attenuated and un-buffered (which means high output impedance) and the Boogie effects return has a low input impedance (not familiar with this particular Boogie, but in general I believe this is the case with Boogie effects returns...but I stand to be corrected). So the massive output of the Matchless preamp is not only very susceptible to high end loss from cables, but because of the impedance mis-match it can not drive the Boogie return stage properly. A high output impedance into a low input impedance means a very large part of the signal is lost. Great shows guys - hope all is well!
Simon! Wish you could move in so you could explain this stuff. Haha! Big love mate, hope you’re well!
@@ThatPedalShow Ha! I'll also mention that if you put a buffer after the Matchless preamp this would fix the issue. Only thing is finding a buffer that can handle the massive output voltage from the Matchless send! As it happens you have one though - the tube buffer I made for one of your shows on Buffers (it's called the "Flying Buttress"). Give that a try if you do a similar thing in the future. Cheers guys!
whenever you are asked what speakers and amps to match, you tend to say that the manufacturer usually designs their amps to work with the speakers they choose, or something in that vain. I think you guys are proving that point with these episodes. Yeah, it gives a sound. But it's a whole ecosystem and you can just hear when the amps are in their happy place
You’ve got it spot on right there. Listening to a Hiwatt into a Fane type speaker and then into a Greenback is a stunning experience, but then you realise why those speakers are commonly paired with those amps. And you’re right, it is a whole ecosystem, with each part (hopefully) morphing with the next to create something beautiful.
Vein
@@reverandscales thanks I didnt know this (being genuine)
TPS mad audio science, love these videos, really proving how the whole eco systems of amps, speaker, guitar works is great. This is stuff you learn over years of playing but never really think about. I've messed with Heads and different cabs but never considered doing this with a head and combo or two combo amps. It's all part of the sound, pre, power, speakers, cables, pedals, pick, fingers, all of it.
I agree.
As far as combo amps, and 1x12 , 2x12 cabs, just taking them off the ground, really changed how I hear and can use different amps.
I found a lot of problems I had with low end, on certain amps, would disappear just by putting the amp on a stand.
I can barely stand to play an amp on the ground, because I can’t hear it as well, as it sounds muffled in comparison, unless it’s mic’d and I have a monitor in front of me.
Every single person I got to try their amp with an angled stand, have never went back.
If I don’t have a stand, I put it in a chair, stool, etc.
For smaller gigs, I can be heard well, at a lower volume, and I can hear myself better, for when there’s no FOH. Just a speaker for the vocals.
This theme lends itself to trying different, pedalboard, preamps into different poweramps.
Those videos are amazing. Gets us a great idea of sounds within the amps and that the whole is more than the sum of its parts
WOW! These Amps are so beautiful. 😍
Chainsaw Man is a big fan of the HM-2. Great Shirt idea.
Crazy cool experiment, guys!
I have a California tweed and was so impressed by the blackbird that I put one in my homemade 5e3. I also have a Jenson P12Q in a blues deluxe reissue. For me, the speakers make these amps great.
The Jensen Blackbird is my all time favorite speaker, I have two in a 2x12 with a VHT Special 44 and it sounds MASSIVE
I enjoyed the camera angles of you guys individually playing. You could really see some great details in the guitars don't know how long that's been a thing but it's great!
Interesting to hear these combinations.
It sounds that the Cali Tweed pre is more gainy and creamy than the HC-30, but Matchless's power section is way more efficient. My preference goes to Cali pre, Matchless power amp through the Vox speakers.
Thanks a lot guys for this kind of video, because this is the beauty of experimentation!
Saw John Mayer in Dublin last night. For his acoustic show he had a Dumble Overdrive Special into a two rock cab and a vintage vibroverb. Used them for 2 mins whole show. How the 1% live!!!
Hahahah! Hilarious.
Saw John do the same in Stockholm…😂
Saw him in Boston. Was worth the $ for the 1% of the time he played that part 😂😂👌🏻
I've owned the 40w mesa cali tweed...regretted selling it and bought the 20 W Cali tweed...great amp, but I needed more...The TPS buzz about wet/dry has me now running Victory VC35 35 Copper head and cab with a Fender PR....huge sound with the wet dry set up...the clarity of the PR (dry) matched with the effected VC35 is something special...I have TPS to thank...so thank you guys from BC, Canada! Side note: I run the Radial Engineering ABY--it was needed :)
Very interesting, really enjoying the sound of the EL84 power section mostly with the Matchless preamp. I've had plenty of EL84 amps (Ampeg, Fender Blues junior and others) but never got along with them. Vox brings me to my happy place.
Mick, I get so nervous when I see someone put a guitar, especially a Gibson with the slanted headstock, on a stool! 😅 Another great show, thank you both!!
i'm pretty sure in one of these videos we will get a back to the future opening scene scenario
Kingsley preamp into each power amp would be a good show.
Why leave out the Fryette Power Station (visible in the back)? It is a 50W power amp with a pair of 6L6s in addition to being a power attenuator and a post-power-amp effects loop.
@@Robstafarian They did 6L6s last time.
But I'm surprised the Power Station never comes out, maybe D&M find it too bland (and they usually put their effects into the front).
@@pd4165 What Mick and Dan, along with the vast majority of guitarists, do not understand this is that the power tubes themselves are less significant than the circuit which surrounds them-including the output transformer. Dave Friedman himself has said many times that he would have stopped using EL34s years ago, were it not for his customers demanding them as though they were essential. That even TPS preserves the knowledge gaps which most guitarists have is one reason why I plan to launch a show on a bespoke channel specifically to teach guitarists about gear.
I just picked up a second hand Boogie Cali Tweed 4:40 and am having great results using Victory Sheriff and Copper V4 preamps through the effects loop. Great Fender, Vox and Marshall tones through one amp, thanks for the ideas and inspiration!
Regarding the issue running the Matchless preamp through the Boogie effects loop, could the amps be out of phase?
I see you guys have got the SPL meter going in the background. Thats pretty cool. (and helpful)!
Love this series of amp mash ups. My choice: any of the two pre-amps, EL84 power section, Celestion Blue cabinet. The last two to add some mids to the game, which are lacking imo in the Mesa configuration.
Both variations Mick felt were "caving in" when he played gold top (mismatched pre/power through the alnico blues) sounded incredible ✨
I’m loving this series. About a year ago I got a UAFX Woodrow and have it setup in 4 cable method with the speaker emulations off to give me another two preamp channels as it were. But my issue was that I play through a weird hybrid system that I built.
I have a Blues Deluxe combo with the original 12” speaker moved to the side and have added an 8” Jensen C8R which is actually powered by a Joyo Tweedy 2. The Blues deluxe is my wet sound and the Tweedy is my dry. I never liked having different preamps for the wet and dry so I built an extra foot switch that I can use to switch between Tweedy or BDRI preamps, which then goes into the Woodrow, and then splits into wet and dry and back to the power amps. This effectively gives me more channels than I could ever want or need, but god it’s fun! Obviously I’m a home hobbyist and not a gigging musician, but routed under my desk this is super fun.
The Celestion Blues are the winners here. Man those things sound good.
Great video, guys! Thanks for sharing. You should get with your buddy outside and the guys in Jackyl to discuss killer chainsaw solo tones
Thank you so much for this, this is the type of mad scientist shit I love. I wish someone would do this with the “big boy” high gain amps too
The Tele sounds so good thru the Matchless that makes sence because they were made for Jorgenson back in Desert Rose Band Days.Main thought would like to hear a head to head.Dan love your bends and pure joy you have .You and Tim Pierce have such expressive joy when playing.This was cool You and Mick are top shelf.Have you two ever got in a fight or disagreement?Asking for a friend.
I have a Divided By 13 JRT9/15, which is a pentode (5879) preamp into either a 9 watt 6V6 and 15 watt EL84 power section that you can switch between. The 6V6 section has less headroom, more gain, and has less top end than the EL84 section which has the top end chime I associate with Vox amps. My favorite is the 6V6 because it gives you a bit of the Vox flavor with the pentode preamp being at least somewhat similar to the EF86 channel, but then you get more Tweed grind from the power section. It gives a brighter, more refined Tweed tone at least to me.
Great series of videos! Although the pre and power amps have small differences what always shock me is the huge difference of the speakers.
Speakers are the final gear obsession. After you've been into guitars, amps and pedals your gaze rotates like the eye of Sauron and you're suddenly like....SPEAKERS. What seemed like the most incidental, boring gear when you were 20 becomes the most compelling one of all. We play an acoustic instrument after all, it's just that the acoustic part is not on the guitar, it's the cab and speakers.
There is lately many topics "is this worth it, is that worth it", whatever it is.
Those two vintage Alnico speakers are worth EVERYTHING ... Man a Live, what a magic they produce
Great show as always! You should try one of those little hybrid £99 Orange amps with the value pre. Mine has been a great way to get a different tone for recording into my Victory Kraken's power amp. Maybe an episode with more budget friendly amps? Bassbreaker, Marshall Origin ect
I'm very happy to see/hear the Jensen Blackbird 100, since it's one of the only non-Celestion drivers I would consider using. In the first comparison, I preferred both guitars though the Mesa/Jensen, but honestly, I didn't hear anything that was bad in any of the combinations. I think the comparison I want to hear most is a Jensen Blackbird and a Celestion AlNiCo Cream.
The cheap in me is saying 'get a 2*12 Katana and use its effect return'.
It would be good to hear it duking it out with a nice valve amp (and to get it away from its cheapo speakers).
Great episode, and it's nice to see that in some cases the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Swapping cabs is an option, but I like to just run 2 different amps - a 6L6/6V6 and a EL84 so you get the best of both worlds. Also not only do the levels very wildly on effects send returns, but also so does the quality - some are well executed and others are meh... not naming names...
I mix a Carol Ann OD3r and a Black star artist 20. I go right into the effects loop return of the blackstar from the stereo side of the Bluesky that is also in the loop of the Carol Ann. Sounds glorious. No hum. Amps just happen to have same polarity.
Interesting point about the Fx loop. I understand now why some amps have a volume knob for the FX Loop.
Excellent.
Both of these shows have been very revealing, but agreeing that the options from the 1st episode were more usable - in general. But as Mick pointed out: some killer trackable tones here (explaining once again why little broken, caved in amps sound so amazing in a studio recording. Got a luthier friend who built an amp where the front end is Plexi hitting a 6v6 section: it takes that thing we love about Plexi's into almost a Hiwatt level kind of volume/resilience. It is good to try things, so thanks again. Sending love to chainsaw man. Did ya'll check his pedal board already?
I really need to try a Blackbird. That speaker sounds great. Thinking about the 10" version in my Princeton Reverb.
Thanks D&M for another enjoyable and informative deep dive. BTW the store appears to be out of chainsaw oil.
That Les Paul looks tiny in mick’s hands. Another great episode. Thanks guys.
It’s one of the reasons I’ve never really bonded with them. Except this one, that looks like a child’s guitar. :0)
Another great sonically challenging experiment! I love my Cali Tweed and the variable tweed sounds from the multi-watt, but I agree with Mick that a 2x12 Jensen Alnico would be amazing.
What I interpret from in the Cali Tweed manual, as Mick said, gain and master controls are "Optimized" to SEND to the "widest range" of pedals and a need to use the effect's "Input and Output level controls." In a sense, the guitarist having to play the role of both (pre-SEND) gain and master controls. Despite the Matchless' preamp sort of acting like both the Boogie's (pre-SEND) gain control and the effect's output level control, the "Processor's levels are set to low" without increasing the Matchless preamp as well as the Boogie's "Optimized" (pre-SEND) Master missing from the signal chain. On the other hand, I likely have this all wrong. 🤣
Gents, it could be that the Mesa's power amp is quiet with the Matchless's preamp because Mesa's "series" loops are actually still somewhat parallel. This is a well-known aspect of Mesa's amps, and it is specifically mentioned in the manuals for Synergy's SYN-1 and SYN-2 preamp-module chassis.
Back when I didn't mind carrying a lot of gear, I used a super reverb and a 58 tweed deluxe and a Leslie. My back and knees hurt thinking about it, but damn, I sounded good.
'With apologies for chainsaw guy'. My initial reaction was 'I know that Telecaster sounds a bit savage but there was no need to to rude!' ........ Then I realised what Mick was actually referring to. 😊😊
0:32 Where's the new IR of chainsaw guy in the murder barn?!? Some goth band would love that reverb, I'm sure!
Mick Gordon, perhaps? Doing some crazy sound design work for whatever insane project he has coming up next.
I'm ready for y'all to go full top-gear and start blowing stuff up in the name of guitar science.
Microphones used?
Love these kinds of shows. Very enlightening. Thanks, guys!
i forget the name but there’s a whole episode on the room setup, it’s a combo of room mics and mic’d speakers IIRC
@@chrisegg7936 Thanks, Chris!
I love my CA Tweed 4:40.
Entirely Mick's fault for pointing me this way a year or two back.
At $2,400, it was a major purchase for me. It was the best money I have ever spent outside of paying $75 to Match (dating site) to meet my best friend and life partner.
I love you guys! Please keep the show going. I've bought 4/5 tee shirts. The quality of my 'effected' shirt is so impressive. I have also bought multiple pedals including the D&M drive. I was curious about your markup on gear. I'm assuming that you get at least 25% of the pedal cost? I figure its a good way to get you cash on something I would purchase anyhow. It may be helpful if sometimes you hint at the margin differences between buying a shirt or gear. You don't push the pedal shop like you push the tshirts\'merch'. I try to buy my gear from you as much as possible. I wish I could have bought the amp from you.
Love you guys : )
Thank you for buying stuff. It genuinely keeps us going!
So when do we get the Poly Verbs “chainsaw” reverb patch ?? 😂😂
Mick - I don't know this for sure, haven't seen schematics, but Mesa almost always biases power tubes quite "cold" compared to most other manufacturers (if 70% plate dissipation is "normal," Mesas are frequently less than half of that) ... and on a Vox-based amp like the Matchless, I'd expect the power section to be running close to always-on Class A, something like 85-90% of max, because cathode-biased EL84s having the utter hell hammered out of them is a huge part of the "Voxy" thing. Mesa's looking for clarity, dependability, and tube life from most of its power sections (especially in its high-gain channel-switching amps, where the preamp IS "the tone" & the power section just needs to make the preamp louder), whereas most Voxy amps rely heavily on the sound of the power amp flirting with catastrophe.
Yeah, when you switch the Cali Tweed preamp between the Matchless & Mesa power sections - you can hear a layer of high-harmonic "zzzzhhhh" with the Matchless that goes away with the thicker fuzzier Mesa, and I think that's the sound of EL84s screaming for their lives vs. 6V6s with plenty of room left before they'd start distorting.
An interesting (I hope) post-script: I was just reading a Mesa/Boogie manual for a different amp, and they mentioned that if you want to use the amp as a power section + cab via the FX Return, you should plug a small patch cable into the FX Send & leave the other end unplugged. Apparently, the Send part of loop circuit can load down + attenuate the Return section if you're only using the Return!
They are remodelling the building next door. It's constant large items hitting the dumpster. AHHHHHHH It's bad enough that Barley likes to sing every time I pick up any guitar.
4x6V6 max power without going over spec would be 28-30W.
The Blackbird 100W Alnico is rated at 97.7dB 1W/1M and dual Blue would be 110dB 1W/1M if they are both 16 ohms (really 15 ohms) in parallel.
Dan wouldn't worry about the blues... at 30W output your dB meter would be telling you to leave the room :)
The gain of 4xEL84 is so much higher than 4x6V6, especially since I think the Matchless has no feedback.
Remember speaker breakup has to do with the xMax variable which is the max distance the voice can move the cone. This is usually 1mm but really who knows.
Thanks guys!
I sort of have a "Matchless DC5" with my Synergy SYN-1 chassis, Salvation Audio MatchVox 2.0 preamp module, and Jet City Custom 5 head (effects loop, post-loop volume, single-ended EL34 without negative feedback). In fact, that is pretty much the Jet City's job now.
Electric chainsaws are really quiet. Stihl make them. I enjoyed the tele into the Matchless into 2 x 12 box. Great tone
Oh Im just now playing a Tele into my Quilter Superblock US into the same speaker that Cali Tweed has! :D Jensen Blackbird alnico!
That Mesa just doesn't get as much love as it should.
Hope you guys maybe do something similar with higher gain monsters!! Mark Series Boogies and 5150s would be interesting to hear!!!
30:27 nice DJ scratch
I like the Vox’s two Celestion Blue’s way more than the single Jensen in the Mesa cab.
Love the Mesa as a combo!
The mismatching between preamps, powersections and cabs, to me, sounds less interesting’ than in the previous video.
Except for the mesa Mesa preamp into the Matchless poweramp and cab, but only for ZZ Top songs with both the Les Paul and Tele😄.
🖖
That Chain Saw Show? - nah. Can't hear it. But maybe that's because a neighbor had a huge old tree cut down - two days of chain sawing and I got to where I was ignoring it. Have you thought of inviting the chain saw guy to come in? Just don't let him bring his chain saw along.
Thanks for doing these experiments. The Les Paul into the Matchless was AWESOME !!!
The “caving in” is normally why I shy away from EL84 amps. They always feel choked and lack the headroom I prefer. Of course it depends on the amp and overall design, but it’s an observation that seems pretty consistent from my experience.
thank fuzz it's friday!
If this is going to turn into a series, I can't express how much I'm down for it. I'd love to hear the Fender Deluxe RI and your Super Reverb, or using the HiWatt and Audio Kitchen heads into different cabs.
Could call the series Mix & Match?
In the last video some of my favourite tones were the 'mixed' ones, I think in this video I preferred the non 'mixed' tones.
Dan here, same
FYI - One of David Lindley's special amps was a Black Panel Deluxe Reverb with a 12" Blue Speaker.
man really need that robben ford episode
It’s coming… in about three weeks with any luck!
For clarification.
In order to use this method for a wet-dry-wet setup I will need 6 amps with effects loops, 3 speaker cabinets, 3 load boxes, and a new electrical service panel?
Just want to make sure I m not missing anything, the wife is going to have questions and I need to have an answer prepared.
Don't worry, the chainsaw guy's probably just Mick Gordon (DOOM 2016, Killer Instinct 2013, Wolfenstein: The New Order) doing crazy sound design work for whatever insane project is next!
killer
Everytime I watch one of your vids - I change my mind lol. Im after a REALLY nice 1x12 combo - pedal platform, primarily home use. Im not worried about volume as such - I do p[lay loud at home (100db regular and often over) and have a Fryette P{wer Station I can use to either decrease a loud or increase a quiet amp. So far, I want a TR Studio Sig, a Matchless something, a Mesa, a Marshall, and many others lol. Im kind of lost. Blackstarts Artisans (not artist) seem to go for cheap (for a hand wired P2P) which Im considering, but also Hamstead on top of the others mentioned. I have no idea what I really want having not used valves for 15 years lol. Pedal choices will come after the amp choice, but said amp must have a nice clean and take pedals well.
Considered a single-ended Class A amp? Can boost output with the Fryette if needed.
Hard to beat that “Vox” sound. Wish I kept my JMI.
I have a question a little off topic but here it goes. The question I have is about paring amps for wet-dry. I was thinking one day what id you pared two very different amps. So my question is what if you pared a old vintage tweed inspired amp and a Vox AC30. One has the ear piercing highs were the other has big and beefy lows. Would it sound bad or out of this world, please make a video on it or visit the idea in a live.
Thank you.
Chainsaw guy? Sounds like a friend of mine who absolutely loves the boss hm-2 waza...
BTW I could not bond with my VOX AC15 C1 at all. Always struggling with it. Then I swapped the speaker for a Jensen P12R RI and I could not be happier! :D
TPS Leatherface Edition!
Hey D&M! I'm looking for a new set of pickups for my Epiphone Les Paul 50's. I love the guitar and the way it feels/plays, but I've wanted to upgrade the pickups and electronics for some time now. I'm looking for something lower output than the stock pickups, that will give me a warm, full, and clear tone - for example, I've always loved the tone of Mick's blonde 335 since he did the pickup swap. I play mostly low gain blues and clean stuff through a Victory V40 Deluxe.
I've looked into a few options, and my favorites have come down to the following: Lollar Imperial/Low Wind Imperial, Monty's Guitars PAF's, Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays, and Total Gravy Guitarworks Early PAF's. I'm wondering if either of you have any thoughts as to what would be a good replacement?
Any of those will be great Miles. Don’t sweat it too much and go with your gut! (But do make sure it’s 50s wired when you do it! )
Was Chainsaw guy using aluminum or titanium blades? Big difference in tone.
This reminds me of something, a long time ago there was mention of doing a comparison of solid state amps and tube amps using solid state OD pedals into the tube amp and tube OD pedals into the solid state amp. Would love to see something like that if there's any chance.
That’s a nice idea. Much more interesting than ‘which do we prefer’. Nice.
Or even dare I say a digital modeled preamp (hx stomp for example) to see if the analogue power amp and real speaker provide the visceral experience. Could be a rabbit hole but also interesting to understand. … Update. No don’t bother. Just tried at home with various helix preamps into my bad cat power section. Did not like any of them (even though I like the Helix itself !). I predict that you would be quite uninspired !
I'd be interested to hear the celestion blues in comparison to Jensen Alnico's.
Mick, ever tried the Two Rock Burnside?
I'm thinking about how Mesa changes the tube architecture when it switches power modes and wondering if that's impacting your "mismatch" 🤔
I took Bruce Egnater’s amps building class a while back. We talked about mesa’s fx loops. And some aren’t ideal.
But he also has an amp that has 3 tone stacks you could switch between. Pretty sure it was fender, Marshall, and vox. And that made a surprising difference. If you also swapped the speakers to something those amps normally use, it probably would have been super close.
Anyway it was an awesome class and I highly recommend it for anyone more interesting in how amps work. And you don’t need to have ever even held a soldering iron before. He’ll walk you through it.
Dan where do run your tele tone control?
Tele into 84 style amp into speakers other than stock vox stuff is the thing for me.
Question: How good is the Bassbreaker 45?
I own a (built in February) 68 Bandmaster that has an AB763 preamp in it and 6L6 power tubes. I am thinking of modding it by adding an effects loop prior to the phase inverter. I want to mix / match it with my Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp (the same circuit as Mesa’s Double and Triple Rectifier) and my Mesa 20/20 power amp. If I understand the schematic correctly, the power amp will be wide open on the Bandmaster if I feed it the Recto Preamp’s signal. Just like the Cali Tweed acted in your video.
Could I add a volume pot after the loop to vary the volume on the Bandmaster’s power section when using the Boogie preamp? If not, could I insert a volume pedal after the Bandmaster preamp’s send to accomplish the same function?
Have to say, (vintage) Blues are great speakers! I am having my 5e3 rebuilt, and have a Blue in the cabinet. Can’t wait to hear it!
Not sure if it’s how broken they are, because the Jensen sounds really good. It’s just the top end sizzle…? Blues have a smoothness that is amazing.
Opening 5 minutes and the Boogie just took a dump on the Matchless
❤
Thanks guys. I have the same chainsaw guy by my house also!
Need a show on acoustic guitar pedals and explain acoustic guitar amplifiers.
Hello, slightly off topic, but how do people feel about the matchless spitfire? Im either thinking that or a milkman 20w Creamer
They’re very different, both awesome
What is this… that AMP show?? Jk I love it
You guys need to make a limited TPS chainsaw shirt
🤘👍🏿