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[CHRIS] Tesla guarantees 70% retention for years on their batteries. I would say selling before the 8 year mark would be the way to go if you are concerned about battery replacement costs.
Tesla is VERY CLEAR in their warranty - capacity is always replaced with like capacity. There is no capacity warranty whatsoever. You get a used battery. Imagine the lawsuits if Ford replaced defective engines with used engines. You are given an engine with 15,000 miles on it during the first year of the warranty, all the way up to 120,000 miles on the engine at year 8, then nothing at all. Tesla is not a serious attempt at an electric car company, Musk is quickly exiting the car market and taking his $100 billion in compensation while the company continues hemorrhaging losses. That's why Tesla bonds are now trading with junk ratings across the board. Capital markets are entirely closed to Tesla, they must raise cash with announcements and associated pyramid deposits. Wall Street says the company has already failed. I agree with them. Only about 250 Model 3's are being produced each month, but each Model 3 will out live the company, even with their near-ideal 6% capacity fade.
I disagree. With a gasoline car, it makes total sense to ask how many miles are on the car. With an electric, that doesn't matter as much, what matters is how many years are on the battery. LiOn life is primarily time bound, but also use bound. Note the losses in Table 3: batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Electric cars are not in a great position here, since they really need to be stored fully charged as range is an issue.
$475 For Tesla Key fob Battery and Wiperblade replacements?! The model 3 has NO KEYFOB... Only a card. It costs a whopping $5 to replace. So... are the wiperblades $235 each? Something ain't right.
They're just trying to sell Toyotas and Hondas you know how they get tax breaks and nobody else does just another trick to get you to buy Toyota and Hyundai
That's what I was thinking, suddenly I'm not so sure this guy has any idea what he's talking about. I'm not trying to replace my wipers every 2 weeks in the first year.
I forgot to mention, I have a Model S with 80,000+ miles and spend only 1,200 in maintenance for tires. No other costs. Didn't need to do the annual check up and it doesn't affect warranty either.
Kyco MC At the moment its looking like the batteries will be in good condition for about 300 - 400k miles (600k km) so he'd probably need to replace the battery in 10 - 20 years for about $13k (at current price of batteries) but if batteries go down at the rate they are it'll probaly be under 7.k and you can reuse the batteries later for Tv remotes , Toy cars , Cellphones , (or just general energy storage) for 2 - 5 years worth about 2k if prices go down Also with petroleum cars they generally get replaced every 5 - 10 years anyway and the amount that you save on electricity is ridiculous in AUS about 2.5k USD per year (at 15k miles its about 3.5k USD)
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 om telling you because my uncle asked me. His tesla roadster is 8 years old and the batteries give him a range of 30 miles.
Thanks for the great content. I recently discovered your channel and am browsing through some of your older videos. It would be neat to see a 5 year update on this. You could compare how they held their value, how the change in gas prices affected the cost of ownership, the price of similar vehicles today.
Two Bit da Vinci I would kindly suggest adding a correction then. There is no way that the Model 3's maintenance cost is that high. If you're using the Model S cost as a base line then you're looking at maintenance costs from a completely different top end luxury bracket - for a car that is very different in many ways.
Maintenance none existing key fob battery and wipers cost 400 a year what is gold plated wipers and are oil changes factored in Honda and suspension parts are extremely well known to need yearly replacement
You are liyng about the Tesla service costs! It is not even required during the first year and second year is only tire rotation and cabin filter replacement!
@NotTheCIA I.think Electric parts and sensors that cost $200+ to buy and $170 /hr labor to install them. What, you think because it has less moving parts they won't break? You do know non moving parts in gas cars go bad tight? Tesla cars are hard to work on to where most people take it to the dealership. The only people who like Tesla are the fanboys who have been suckered into the marketing, which I'm not shocked. There has been a lot of brainwashing marketing lately from cars, social media ads and apps like Acorns, as if they are a smart choice. I've also noticed that tech enthusiast like these cars. If you work on cars or have any knowledge of good build quality in cars, they will all say Teslas are GARBAGE when it comes to reliability.
Lots of misinformation in the comments (as usual)... here are my facts: Most of the service on the Model 3 is “suggested”, not required for keeping the warranty. The important one is replacing the battery coolant fluid after 4 years. That’s the only important service and costs $850, that’s it. Insurance costs is another strange one... before I bought a Model 3 I made sure to get a quote from my Progressive insurance. It was within $20 of my Audi A4 at around $600 a year for a guy in his 40’s. Some people reporting hundreds of dollars per month need to switch insurance companies, that’s some sort of scam. The battery should last at least 200,000 miles or more easily and this has been proven out by many older Model S’s. We don’t know how much that will cost yet, but at 200,000 miles or more, you’re talking about a 10 to 20 year old car at that point. My neighbor has 120000 miles on his Model S and the original battery has only degraded to 89% capacity at this point. He’s got plenty of life left in the battery. You just have to care for the battery meaning 1) do not supercharge often, and 2) do not charge over 90% unless you really need those extra miles the next morning.
once they implement their 'robo taxi fleet', the "cost of ownership" of a Tesla will be moot since it'll generate more money than it costs (according to Galactic Emperor Musk)
@@510jesus I assume that includes paying someone at the dealership to do it for you. It's definitely a rip off but well within the norms of the ridiculous prices auto shops charge for maintenance.
@@hadespogi LOL It's definitely not everywhere... I paid about 340 € every year for the maintenance of my car, a mazda one, but I always paid about this price with all the other brand of car I had before, and BMW is even more expensive. But I get some info that EV (at least Tesla) doesn't have any maintenance before 2 years and it's only for the break liquid, then there is a maintenance at 4 years and it's of course break liquid again and cooling liquid for battery... Definitely far from the price announced here. So the Model 3 is even cheaper.
justinspirational Very true... I am one of the dumb owners of model 3 which cost us $58k after all the extras and are ready to trade-in which one dealership quoted us $41k
The $7,500 tax credit does NOT simply disappear once a manufacturer hits 200,000 electrical vehicles. It stops being $7,500 two quarters after the manufacturer hits that mark, which it will then be $3,750 (50%), and again two quarters later it will be $1,875 (25%). Then it disappears. You did not mention this phase out at all. 4:35 The model 3 does not have a key fob battery. The card uses a passive RFID chip. Wiper blade replacements would not constitute $475. I like this video, because it feels like a lot of research was done, and the animation is nice.
[Ricky] Thanks Jon, great points all around. The phase out was something we didn't discuss, and maybe we can make a follow up video discussing it. And the key fob was also a good point. We used maintenance data for Model S, since we couldn't find any data for the 3. So that is different, but our point was simply that these companies still have a list of things they'd like you to bring in to get checked out. The honda is similar too, I have had one, drove it to 200k miles, and never did all the stuff they recommended. Just what it needed and most of it was around the 100k mark. thanks again for sharing Jon, we hope you'll subscribe, we have a lot of good stuff in the works!
Larry Smith the credit is designed to usher in new technologies lol. I don't think you understand economics there are all kinds of credits like this one to help companies get off the ground... This is something that's done to help generate jobs also
Even if the tax credit is around i still wouldn't include it. Remember that's only if you can use it. Most people max out there rrsps meaning the credit could be useless anyway. It's not free money
Thanks for this. Appreciate the effort you have put in. Been thinking about this as an option. Catch is, electricity prices in Australia are quiet high and going anywhere outside of the main cities or countryside would leave you screwed.
@@butters9274 True, but the Model 3 will also not lower in value as much as other cars. The demand is just way too high. Everybody here wants electric.
You are wrong about the tax credit. You said it only works for the first 200,000 cars Tesla produces. The fact is it for the first 200,000 cars Tesla (or any company) sells in the US. There are Tesla's all over the world and those sold in any other country do not count to towards the 200,000 total.
[Ricky] Yes the US Federal Tax credit counts towards Tesla's sold in the US. Thought that was clear, but thanks for the clarification. We didn't talk about credits anywhere else because that would be a whole video by itself.
[CHRIS] Yeah, we didn't specify the US, but you are correct. However, the best numbers we could find & did cite are correct for the US (~140K sold). Here is one source: electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/
You should also add that the tax credit ‘phases out’ past the 200k cars sold in US. And in fact, for the first two quarters after the 200k landmark is hit, there is no limit to how many cars the manufacturer can sell that qualify the full $7.5k credit. After that it drops to 50%, then 33% before vanishing (I think I got the numbers right). It’s safe to assume that everyone that pre ordered the first few days (that’s about 250k orders) will get the full credit.
I was going to pile on for the tax credit error, but you beat me to it. Tesla will be able to deliver thousands of cars before the credit extinguishers completely. Great video though.
Not sure what part of the world everyone else lives in and changes wipers yearly. I live in Canada and even after using wipers on an icy windshield they still last me two years guaranteed. They also cost $10 each to replace on your own.
This doesn't factor in solar energy from home, charging on the go being free for life for Tesla owners and the fact that gas around the world is often THREE TIMES as expensive as in America.
[Ricky] Free charging from Tesla we believe is only for the Model S and X, not the 3. Prices vary all around the world, so thats why we went through the effort of creating calculators and sharing them in the video.
Do you even own solar panels? I get around $40/month worth on average from my 500sqft panels which costed $$$$ to install. Also that free Tesla supercharger thing ... have you even used it? In populated areas there's always a line so you're wasting many hours a week for the free charging so I almost never use them. The only thing keeping me on my S is the autonomous driving. Once other cars get as good as a Tesla on this then I'm totally ditching Tesla for good.
Your right that gas is alot more around the world. The u.s subsidize the shit out of gas. With the 3 you gotta pay for chargers, there is a one time fee if you dont want to but i think its quite a bit of money.
Great video and very well produced! However, I have owned a Model S (P85D) for over 3 years and have about 45,000 miles on it. It has cost me a total of about $300 in maintenance. THERE IS NO scheduled maintenance that is required! Tesla "recommends" the maintenance checkup at the service center which you factored in. It dos NOT void or affect your warranty to forgo it. All they do is inspect the car, replace the wipers, cabin air filter, and rotate the tires. All of which you can do for far less than the "scheduled" maintenance from Tesla. Also, I do not have the home charger, nor is required it is optional. The charger that comes with the car works fine. I paid an electrician about $120 to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage to plug into and charge.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing your real world experience. Yes, the maintenance plan is optional, and is likely not to be used by many, making the TCO even lower. And on the charger, again as you stated, it is optional. We did look at L2 charger + installation costs across the US, and we went on the high end. Again, plug in your own numbers to our calculator, and determine TCO for your needs.
You can buy home charging stations anywhere from 16A to 40A giving a charge rate of between 3.8kW/h and 9.6kW/h. That would equate to times of about 13 hours and 5 hours to fully charge a 50kWh Model 3. Regarding the $1500 installation cost mentioned in the video; I was quoted $1000 to install a new 30A line from the panel by an electrician and the unit itself was $500. However, in the end I just routed the existing 40A electric cooker line into the garage (as I never intend to own one) and PG&E gave me $500 cash for switching to a time-of-day electrical rate schedule, so the overall cost can easily be negligible.
You don't need to install an L2 charger at home, and we typically charge our cars at night, at 12.5c per KWH. Plus, Teslas hold their values real good, so I am surprised that the resale value is only coming at 43%, less than the civic. In today's world, buying an ev is the smart move over an ice car imo.
For the first 5 years on a civic you are going to do 2 oil changes per year , change the wipers, and get new tires. Not going to be the maintenance cost described here.
4:35 about $500 for key fob battery (it's a key card) and wipers? AutoZone has those for under 30 but still great video 👏👏👏👍 next Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Toyota Prius versus Tesla model3.
[CHRIS] We used the recommended maintenance for the Model S/X, and didn't explain it very well. Many won't use the paid Tesla recommended maintenance plan, making the TCO even more compelling. We are looking at a future video, and considering several cars, but the Chevy Bolt keeps rising to the top as one contender.
I'm leasing an electric car - and your 'maintenance' costs just don't make sense - Besides, this is 'Murica - maybe 10% of electric car owners are going to follow any maintenance schedule.
There are no subsidies. No tax credit. But gasoline/diesel vehicles are very highly taxed, EVs are not. And gasoline, as Einar mentioned, is very expensive - to the tune of almost $2 per liter - $7-8 per gallon.
The cost of insurance is different for the 3 cars. I heard, that the insurance for the model 3 was expensive so far. It would have been interesting to factor it in the break down costs...
+mikeberg [Ricky] Sweden I think buys more Tesla’s per capital than most countries! So so we understand, how much is a gallon of petrol (3.8 liters) and how much do you pay per kWh? Thanks!!
+mikeberg [CHRIS] Yeah, we complain about gas prices in the US, but it’s really bad in Europe and clearly in Sweden. Do you know what the government incentives are in Sweden? I think Norway is the #2 market for Tesla, Just curious how other Scandinavian countries compare. And what about registration taxes, which I heard are high for regular cars?
Two Bit da Vinci I plan to get about 7500 USD back from the government. The price of the 35 kUSD M3 will be higher than the US because of customs fees and VAT it will be something like 53 kUSD, the US rate also effects this. In Norway they have removed VAT and other taxes making a Tesla model S comparably priced to a Volvo more or less, Tesla’s are selling like lemonade on a hot day!
I’m in Finance and this is how you do a total cost of ownership model! Awesome video too! The only critique- if at all, is to add NPV to it. But that’s me being picky. Awesome job and summary.
$475 maintenance for Model 3 is so not true. Not even close. Especially just driving 15k miles. A charger capable of charging up to 30 miles per hour comes free with the Model 3 with a 14-50 adapter. I just has an electrician install my 14-50 outlet for $460 including parts. The $500 charger you can purchase from Tesla only gives you up to 44 miles per hour.
My electrician beat yours.$270 parts and labor. Consumer Reports estimated the installation cost at $2000. I don't know where these people come up with their info.
@@frankfazekas5414 My electrician beat yours. A whopping $100.00 parts + $1.00 bottle of water labor. Got two plugs and secondary panel for garage. Can now split both to 50A, or double up 1 outlet to 100A and move the second to the switchable dryer circuit. Send family members to trade school!
Nice explaining video. Wow, although a fan of Tesla didn’t know Model 3 (when $35K option is available) has 5 year CTO of $21K. That is irresistible 👍🏻
I'd like to see cost of ownership over 10 years, factoring in a battery replacement around year 9. Model 3's offer an 8 year warranty on their battery. I'd also like to know more about how your maintenance costs were calculated. I'm also floored that you guys are still talking about a $35,000 Tesla Model 3 when the cheapest Model 3 currently available is $46,000, and it was $49,000 a few months ago.
Sure they do. My brother-in-law has a 2003 330CI with 153,000+ on it and runs perfect. I change the oil, brakes/rotors, and more. Very good automobile.
BMW cars are made for 4 years and 50,000 miles....when the lease is up, they die. That is why smart used BMW buyers get the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty. It costs about $2500 but will save the owner twice that. Some story about some brother in law who has 153,000 miles in his BMW from 16 years ago is NOT going to change that fact. There are plenty of BMW's out there with 150K miles...and about $15K in repair bills. You want a car that goes 150K without repair bills it has to say TOYOTA or HONDA on the hood.
@@chadhaire1711 Hey, I'm the person how's brother-in-law has the BMMR. You are right about the cost of keeping one of these cars. The heat failed a couple of months ago and the repair was $842 and had to be done by BMW. If it turned out the heater core needed replacement, it would have cost $2,300. But since I'm able to help with most other things, we've kept the cost down. If it were my car, I'd get rid of it and buy something less expensive to maintain.
Why compare to a Prius? That's a Hybrid. Totally different model and BTW I suspect that the Tesla kicks its ass but I've never run the numbers because it's so different. I did test drive a used 2017 Lexus CT200 F-Sport before I went with the Tesla 3 and the dictionary definition of no-contest, no- comparison is those two. Hybrids and EVs don't play in the same space.
Hi! With wich software did you make the animations and Video itself? I like the style very much. It‘s a good way to make a complex subject understandable. Thanks for the work!
There's a guy on here, saying that Tesla brakes wear out faster because you are always using them for regenerative braking. Oh God. I had to correct a journalist depicting the new electric Nissan LEAF 2018 model, because she spoke about regenerative brakes as if they were ACTUALLY a special set of brake disks and pads and stuff?! This is depressing. For the record, the electric motor of the type any decent electric car uses, is often referred to by engineers simply as an electric machine. This is because it is both a motor and a generator. Putting power through the electric machine, makes it perform effort to turn the shaft or wheel surrounding it (if it is a motor-in-a-wheel type). In other words, it is acting as a motor. If however the machine is forced to rotate faster than the amount of power you are putting in, it acts as a net generator. Putting mechanical effort into rotating the rotor, causes a voltage to be created at the electrical terminals or wires sticking out of the electric machine, and a current will flow if some load (eg a battery willing to take charge) is connected to those wires. This is regenerative braking - the act of what on a normal combustion engine car we call 'overrun'. Of course, ONLY an electric motor can perform this dual role, in conjunction with a battery pack able to take up the energy so generated. So, for the record, for anyone wondering, there are no special regenerative brakes, there IS regenerative braking, caused by letting the vehicle be forced onward by its inertia, in what we would normally term an 'overrun' situation. EG coasting downhill, without having to use the throttle/accelerator. No special brakes, with special regen pads and regen disks! Actually, if someone would care to invent some, I will buy them and fit them to my old diesel Volvo, that would be brilliant, thanks in advance!
+Sleekitwan, yes regen braking doesn't consume brake pads it's the electric motor bring turned into a generator when you let off of the accelerator. As far as it being called overrun in an internal combustion engine, that is a first for me, I have always heard it called and or called it engine braking. Maybe it's a US thing?
Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust. When the brakes are used they will dry the discs before they start to rust and they will last longer as the rust will quite effectively "eat" into the metal of the discs when they are wet.
Be realistic though. There is no 35k Tesla and there are none in the works. Base model is $50k. It's probably not going to 35 anytime soon. The regen isn't even doing that much other than saving wear on your brakes. Batteries cannot handle giant surges coming in. IF EVs catch on, the price of electricity is going to skyrocket. The price of wall charges will go up quite a bit for quite some time, though it would eventually come down. The $1500 is assuming you have the right wiring to your garage and that assumes you have a garage. There are massive fit and finish problems with Tesla. There are many stories by Tesla lovers of endless shop and home visits to fix many, many minor but annoying problems for a $50k car and that's the cheapest one. The ones being sold are in the 70-$100k range.
+Tom Arne Knashaug, "Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. " no... no... noooo.... just... no.... I get what you are trying to say, really I do... but you are not taking some very basic fundamentals into consideration. "The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust." This, and everything after it is based on seriously misunderstanding the very basics of what is being talked about. To elaborate on that and not just say you are wrong without saying why... In order for brake discs to rust it will take a while. At least a day or longer before even beginning to show any minute surface rust (weeks before the rust will really matter in the realm of higher initial wear). Maybe if you drive through a salty puddle it will take a few hours? Ok let's say it can somehow magically rust in 2 hours. Regenerative braking doesn't stop the car. It slows the car. Well it can "stop" the car sort of if you have enough distance to actually come to a rolling stop. It would be close to what you would do by engine braking with a normal car just let off the accelerator while in gear. So... how do you stop? Well, it's a novel idea. You use the pedal next to the accelerator called a brake pedal. This applies the brake pads to the brake disc and it begins to slow the car and if held long enough with enough pressure it is very effective at stopping the car. All joking aside the point is that you need to use the brakes in order to stop. Unless you are driving cross country and never touch the brake pedal in very salty hostile weather there is very little time for "rust" to accumulate quick enough and to the degree it needs to for this to really matter. Every time you hit the brake pedal it starts the cycle all over again. I would agree with what you are saying if... and only if regenerative braking essentially replaced the brake pedal in normal everyday operation, and maybe only using the brakes to come to a complete stop once every other day. The reality is regenerative braking slows the car... not stops it. Think of all the times you press the brake pedal during a normal drive. You press it to stop, and to slow down for corners speed limit changes, etc. Now imagine you just letting off of the accelerator to slow down instead of hitting the brake pedal. You still need the actual brakes to come to a complete stop. So all the times you come to a complete stop during a normal drive will be enough to keep the discs as free of rust as driving without regenerative braking.
Both u are morons if u really go for a tesla right NOW, within the next 5 years u will see pretty much every single car brand out there with electric cars. Dont forget that Tesla only works on the battery and power but not on reliability which is key on cars, there will be better electronic cars out soon.
Thanks for the video, it gives me things to think about. The first thing I thought of was my new insurance rate for this vehicle. I got an estimate from my insurance company and it would double what I'm currently paying. To get a true cost of ownership, car insurance cannot be omitted because I'd bet there's a big difference in a Civic vs. a Model 3 - and after 5 years, that would be a significant cost.
Same thing for the maintenance: I've had a model S for 3 years, got no maintenance on it whatsoever. Maintenance cost so far as been 0 (they sent a van to rotate my tires for free, and I paid maybe $100 to get a tire fixed after I got a flat once).
First, very useful comparison. 1. Comparison here is for $35000 model 3 which is not available, yet. Minimum available is $49000 that adds $8000 to model3 total cost (57% depreciation). By the time real 35k car is available, tax rebates will be gone. :( 2. How long battery typically last. How much does it cost to replace/repair battery?
This is by far the best detail description I've seen yet... Please update this its over 1 year & improvements have been made by far PLUS the M3 is actually $35K now..
No its not. He made this video at a time when the model 3 wasn't even out yet. Realistically he's just making up numbers it sounds and doesn't know anything about the model 3. And further more how TF is a BMW cheaper to maintain? I call bull on that. And FYI the model 3 doesn't have a key fob stupid 🤦🏽😒
I am an owner of a Civic XT and I can tell you that I have not spend on maintenance that much as estimated in this vdo. I drive it around 13K miles a year and changed oil only once a year. For two years now my maintenance cost is about $500 total. Probably cost of washing it is half of that. The most expensive thing I had to do is to pay for a deductible when my kid crashed it. It cost me only around a thousand a year to insure. No way you can insure a Tesla for less than 1K a year. The best thing about owning an ICE car is that there is no range anxiety. Honda Civic reliability is legendary. That alone is worth my hard earned money.
[CHRIS] All good points, but to be fair, the actual maintenance on the Tesla will likely be lower too. FYI, we used projected maintenance and repiar costs from Edmunds.com for the ICE vehicles.
Yes, you have range anxiety. That's why you go to smelly ass dangerous gas stations still. I don't. I plug in at home and wake up with 250 miles ready to go and more than that if I feel like saying "SIRI, DIRECTIONS TO THE NEAREST EV GO STATION".
Honestly, until you own an EV, shut up. Just listen to the people who own an EV and take notes. You have no right to comment about something you know nothing about. You're a virgin talking about sex. Just "Shhhhhh."
Well now what if you have to travel more than 250? hmmm how long will it take to charge? On the road where will you recharge? How about the magnetic field around you body causing health problems and maybe cancer? What is the cost of replacing the battery? Can the battery catch on fire or if there is a short from a wreck will you burn? There is more but I dont have time
1st off Great video not one bad thing to say at all! Now that said a couple missed points, as a car enthusiast it is not modifiable not everyone buys a car just to drive too and fro! As a avid road tripper that's something people may forget to factor in. I don't know charge time but 250 miles is about a 3-4hr trip based on 65mph and having to locate a charging station may necessitate you to alter your destination or route or get a rental. Remember gas is readily available within a mile or two of most exits. Plus to "re-fuel" you have to locate and park at a local charging station to charge up when you could of been in transit. This affects you if you also can't get a charging station installed as this can only happen if you have a house and not a rental or apartment! But never the less the most insightful video to date.... Keep up the good work!
Awesome comments!!!!! Yes you make some great points. Modifications are tougher but trust us, when EVs take off there will be an after market scene. There will be shops that offer higher output motors for your EV. Eco flashing tuning, battery pack mods etc
The tax credit thing is really wrong. The 200k applies to US deliveries but more importantly, it expires in the quarter after the 200,000th vehicle is sold in the US. That means if vehicle number 200,000 is sold say on April 1, 2018 first day of Q2 2018), then every car delivered by Sep 30, 2018 (last day of Q3 2018) would qualify for the $7,500 credit. Further, the credit then tapers off, so Q4 '18 and Q1 '19 would each receive $3,750 credit and Q2 '19 and Q3 '19 would receive half of that amount or $1,875. I don't know whether they will cross the 200k threshold in Q1 or Q2 of 2018.
+EarlMalmsteen [Ricky] Yes we misspoke and we apologize! Thanks as others have pointed out you it it on the head. Great write up. We may make a follow up video to this
I think you also have to consider bodywork. My buddy was rear ended in his Model S. The car has been in the shop for 6 months and they haven't started fixing it. He needs a car to commute to work. His insurance only paid for the first 30 days of his loaner. He is paying almost $1000 for his rental. While still making payments on his Model S he had for 8 months, before it was hit. He is planning to sell it the day it is finally fixed.
The worst part is, they only give him the runaround. Otherwise he would have just bought a winter beater, instead of renting a corolla at his cost for 5 months and counting. Whenever he calls, they tell him the same thing, parts are on the way. They have even lied and told him parts were being shipped overnight. He bought this car to save money as he commutes from Seattle to Everett each day. He is going to lose thousands, from an accident that was not his fault. Tesla does not care at all about that. Know what happens if you get rear ended in a Civic? They write it off and hand you a cheque, or fix it within a week or two.
[CHRIS] I have no problem with Tesla Corp cutting out the dealer, and selling only direct to customers. But when it comes to repairs and body work, it sounds like they have really dropped the ball. The sad part is that even if there were 3rd parties that could repair Teslas, chances are, any parts availability would be even worse. It's crazy that Tesla can drag out repairs for so long and not have some legal obligation to compensate their customers.
No,the Model 3 is not the same as the Model S in terms of repair. The Model 3 body is made of steel while the Model S is aluminum. Few body shops work on aluminum bodies. This is why work on the Tesla Model S may take quite a while. Limited availability in repair shops.
We picked up our Standard Range Plus Model 3 March 26 and it has fully met and exceeded our expectations. We traded in a 2017 Prius Prime Plus, 16,000 miles, and got $18,300. We also bought basic AutoPilot, $3,000, which is today standard on all Teslas. AutoPilot should be part of any future comparisons. I continue to do my engineering studies but it appears the EPA metrics are not as accurate as I would wish. A visit to a truck weighing station revealed it is lighter than EPA listed and power different than EPA claimed. Regardless, it is a pretty good little pocket rocket. Our backup is a 2014 BMW i3-REx.
Actually it further surpasses it since they were actually almost doubling the national average for kWh rates. For the last almost decade the national average has been less than 13 cent per kWh. This rate cuts the cost they used for fuel by about 40% over 5 years.
Great video! Have you done one including having rooftop solar at home with a few extra panels to remain at net zero grid power consumption while charging your Tesla, amortizing the cost of the solar array over their 35 year product life (as low as $0.03/kWh, over the 35 years without inflation)? The cost per mile really starts to drop on your own solar power, not to mention it's then a solar powered super clean car and you are your own power company and gas/fueling station!
Sounds great and the ideal situation for anyone, but the factories to make these parts will make a footprint in the environment which I believe is what Elon is trying to avoid.
@@Goddess_Char Oh you DEPLORABLE FOSSIL FUELS TROLL!! Of course making solar panels that last 35+ years and are 95+% recyclable has a carbon footprint you radically ignorant Neanderthal. And of course it's (proven to be if you weren't a denier of science like a MAGA) footprint is radically smaller than building a fossil fuels burning power plant, mining and burning fossil fuels and maintaining it for 35+ years. You Republicans should all suck a tailpipe and fade off into the sunset. And there's no such thing as gods you silly MAGA, that's mythology shit and radically bigoted.
How long does the battery last? Or Are they using CAPACITOR to instantly charge? what is the cost of the battery replacement after how many miles? (car pool lane in Calif will be an advantage)
Nice video, however I think your maintenance figures for the Model 3 are off. It has no key fob, so nothing to replace, which was one of your key points for why the service charge was high
+Vitz Patel [Ricky] it’s based on model S but it’s not zero. Just like the civic not everyone will perform this maintenance procedures. But to compare apples to apples we included both. Honestly I have had two civics and one I had to 200k miles and cost me very little in maintenance.
Maintenance cost of my Model S for one year at 25K miles is ZERO dollars (I don't use key fob since I have my phone with me all the time). I had washer fluid refilled once for free at a service center when they upgraded the car software to get extra 100 horsepower last week.
+Alexandre Andrianov [Ricky] yah we called out what Tesla recommends same as all cars. I have had civics in the past that required so little maintenance. But we wanted to keep it apples to apples and use recommended intervals and costs
Two Bit da Vinci think you plucked them maintenance costs out of your arse to be honest... how can a ice car have lower maintenance costs than a EV? Ice need oil and filter changes! That alone is a considerable higher cost than a few wiper blades, a few wiper blades that the ice car would still require!!! no? 🙄
This video is informative but credibility drops due to a couple of points: That is not the Model 3 logo thanks to Adidas. You said the 1st year Model 3 maintenance will cost $475 mostly due to keyfob battery replacements and wiper blade replacements. The Model 3 has no keyfob and its wiper blades are no different than other cars. Still, it is a very good video and thanks for sharing the spreadsheet too.
Tom Hoffman [CHRIS] So the maintenance info is based on Tesla’s website for their current models (S & X). We should have been more clear about that. Point is still the same: most of Tesla’s recommended maintenance is probably not needed, though I am not sure it they require any or all of it to keep your warranty in tact. Thanks for your comments, we will try to work on our credibility more next time.
used to run different BMWs from 120i to M5, and let me tell you it was maintenance/repairs + petrol that's always been killing me (here in Germany we pay ~1,50 € / l) , so naturally I'm in with a reservation for a Tesla 3 - we've got VWs, too, a bit better then the BMs they are, but certainly less fun to drive ;-)
Absolutely! I secretly still dream about buying a 2002 M5, one of my favorite cars ever. But I know the service costs to keep it running will be quite high. Thanks for your comment!
I was just reflecting on the maintenance costs for my 20 year old Lexus. I replaced 4 tires last year for $100 and changed the oil myself for $13. The battery was replaced under warranty (free). I had a defective fuel pulse damper that I replaced myself for $21 and 15 min. work. The only other part failure EVER was a small thing that I could have done myself but paid a shop to do the diagnosis and replacement for about $100. Others were just consumables like wiper refills, brake pads (easy DIY) and the very rare bulb. Insurance is expensive at about $1000/yr. The "maintenance" costs described here seem very high to a frugal guy like me, but I'm old. A few years ago, they did bring a Model S to me for a drive. It was certainly impressive, at least superficially.
There's really no "work". Changing oil and knowing exactly what's going into the car is very satisfying. The one repair done by a shop was something I could easily have done and so could absolutely anyone else but didn't have the time then. Obviously I don't replace tires myself but the shop I use properly HAND TORQUES all lug nuts to factory specs. I like that! Wonder if Tesla does. Low frequency of repair rate = reliability = quality to me. I did notice that Tyler Hoover posted a video on a Tesla Model S he had bought from the father of a Tesla engineer. I think he said that the car was already on its third motor! Hope I recalled that correctly. If so, that would be shocking.
Yes, I really should have been clearer. The tires were $100 each with installation included. I change the oil every year at 5K and the part replaced was the only non-wear item like brakes, wipers, batteries. The car is my daily driver but I only put about 5k/year on it these days.
if you are in bumper to bumper traffic most of the time 0-60 time doesnt really matter. I mean its fun and all to drive fast but its not all that important to me.
Good effort guys, some good points made. Good to find out about the MPGe. I've subscribed. A few nits though. I've owned a Focus EV for almost two years now and there are NO maintenance costs (may need wipers depending on where you live but that will be the same for ICE cars). Besides never having to pull into a gas station to fuel up, it's one of the ways driving an EV will put a smile on your face. I'm guessing the maintenance costs for all the cars include the recommended maintenance/inspection visits which are overpriced and of questionable value. I would only calculate the oil/filter changes for the ICE cars as maintenance for the delta. EV cars are also very easy on brake pads due to regen braking. Including $1500 for the charging station should be shown as an optional separate charge. I purchased a Level 2 Siemens charger for $500, installed it myself, and received a $500 rebate from my utility company.
[Ricky] Totally agree, we used "recommended maintenance" from the company, and all these guys recommend all sorts of things that no one really does. Great points
Video is very well done! Thanks for compiling those numbers. The Model 3 maintenance cost seems too high though, unless you replace the wiper blade once per month.
adam roy This. Tesla has no oil to replace, transmission fluid, coolant, spark plugs or wires. Just tires and window washer fluid. Tesla warranty is in a class of its own for any major expenses.
Yes, the maintenance cost is ridiculous for the Model3! And then adds in $1500 for electricity set up when I can plug into electric dryer plug for free;-)
And the expenses for the Tesla are ridiculous. You're not likely to need key fob replacement and if you do, it's likely covered under warranty. And there is no need for brake pad replacement until about 100,000 miles, if ever, while both of the comparison vehicles will need brakes at least once per year.
Yep, which is why many people complained about their estimates. They used the estimates from the Model s, which are way inaccurate for the Model 3. I think they just wanted to list something as a comparison. There is no data yet on the Model 3. But unfortunately, that comparison includes items that don't even exist on the Model 3.
Awesome comparison stats The cost of the autopilot options should be added to the purchase price of the T3 What would be the different depreciation of the T3 with and without the autopilot options?
Those who put $1,000 down are not concern about money, what they have in mind is more important than money. Renewable energy that won't hurt the next generations to come eventually save our planet.
Johna Joseph lol. The energy is just offset. Even if you used solar or wind to generate energy the footprint of manufacturing the solar or wind farms is enormous.
Actually, I just dont want to go to a gas station ever again. I do all my shopping online and Amazon even delivers groceries to my doorstep for free. I already have an insane amount of free time and with a Tesla I can have even more.
[Ricky] We didn't really get into it, but one of the major drawbacks of EV's to date have been horrible resale values like the LEAF. a new Leaf for 35k is worth like 10k 3 years later, its unheard of, but Tesla has seemed to figure that out with superior technology, warranties and desirability.
Hi Ricky! If you set aside the federal tax credit, a $35k Tesla will actually cost you $35k. There are no dealer discounts on a brand new, never demo'd vehicle and no manufacturer's rebates. A $35k LEAF could easily be purchased for $28k or less after dealer discounts and Manufacturer's rebates. That's a 20% depreciation before the car is even sold to the first owner, let alone when it is actually "driven off the lot." When you consider the Tax Credit, a "$35k LEAF" actually only cost $21,500 or less to the first buyer. Depreciation from $21,500 to $10k in 3 years makes a lot more sense and in reality is what is happening.
What will happen to your cost of ownership calcs when you have to replace that Honda or BMW after a couple hundred thousand miles, but the Model 3 just keeps on humming?
Own my Nissan Leaf during ~7 years: Paid for tires 'only' !! EV owners even do not pay for a break pads because most energy regenerates. I did drive mostly mountain roads during those 7 years - pads are new!
A few points are slightly off for cost in Texas. First my kw charge is not $0.20 but $0.096. Second my charger installation was $200.00 for 50 amp range plug installed near carport. This gives me over 7kw/hr and don't even use wall connector. Only use charging cable that Tesla supplies with each Tesla. Otherwise you information was very usefull. Thanks Robert in Wichita Falls
Some day there will probably be a $35000 Tesla, but at the time an honest comparison would use a $44,000 price. Maybe this comparison should have used the Nissan Leaf.
I bought an Ioniq for $22,000. Based on this video I am dominating the cost spectrum since I have driven 11,000 miles, spending $500 in gas and $65 in maintenance with an average fuel economy of 61.4 mpg. To me the real test is the 300,000 mile mark though.
Actually it is just the standard HEV. It has been a great car so far but I am finding out the downside to having an extremely efficient engine in the form of winter warm up time. Winter temps often drop into single digits where I live which means the car has to be driven for 10+ miles just for the engine to warm up. This translates into a lower fuel economy since the car is constantly trying running the ICE just to keep warm. My last fill up gave me only 51mpg compared to 64 during the summer...ouch. First world problems I guess though;)
I own a Tesla for 3 years. The maintenance per year is ZERO (no oil/transmission/Spark plug change, no need to replace brake pads, etc.), Your maintenance assumptions are totally nonsense.
@@TheJackedJames Electric Vehicles have "Regenerative Braking" which is just using the electric motor as a brake and putting the energy back in the battery. This significantly reduces the wear on the brake pads.
Your channel is one of the best (if not THE best) for useful, reliable data on EVs. Congratulations and keep up the good work. The fact of the matter is, however, that the 35K USD Tesla model 3 does not exist...a real cost comparison would have to take into account an actual Tesla model 3 available...somewhere north of 50K USD. I live in France. In 2019-2020 Daimler, Audi, Jaguar, VW, Porsche, Volvo, Hyundai, Kia will all introduce EV models to compete directly with the Tesla model 3. It would be great if you could do a cost comparison similar to what you have done here for your European audience (taking into account the much higher energy prices for gasoline, diesel fuel, and electricity in Europe). Also, is there a significant difference in cost of insurance for EV vs. ICE vehicles? If so, you should factor that in as well (if possible).
Great video. I just wanted to add for people not familiar with EVs: For many families Lvl2 charger at home is not needed at all. 110 outlet is enough. If you are new to EVs, do not rush to install the charger in your garage. There is a good chance you will not need it. On trips, charging is free in hotels (according to my EV experience). This substantially reduces the cost of "fuel" in real life. If you really want to save even more, you can find free charging in most cites; use PlugShare app to find out. Maintenance is overestimated greatly in my opinion. I believe it is virtually free for the first few years, and then it is a tiny fraction vs ICE.
+SnapHost [Ricky] Good points! So it takes like over twenty hours to charge your Tesla with a 110 outlet so for some a level two charger might be more needed. Also for people in California which is one of the biggest EV markets on Earth, we get billed based on time of use. So people here will program their Tesla to fast charge during super off peak times with energy is substantially cheaper. And for maintenance, we used recommended figures because honestly for the civic it is also inflated. I’ve owned two civics my first I kept to 200k miles and it required so little maintenance. So to keep it apples and apples we just went with recommended Thanks for the comment! Hope you’ll consider subscribing we have a lot of great content planned!
The average US car drives 13000 miles a year. Tesla says you get 3 miles of range per hour on a 110 outlet with a model S, but a lot of forum people say 5 miles. It should be even more for the M3. Still, at 3 miles per hour, you need 4333 hours of charging to cover the average distance. That's a little less than 12 hours a day. So for most people that's plenty. Especially considering that any long trips will be charged at superchargers. Most super off peak run all weekend. So that's 50 hours charging right there. 110 charging only on off peak rates should be viable for an average person. TXU free nights plan is free from 9pm to 6am every day, so that's 9 hours a day. If the M3 recovers 5 miles per hour, it only needs 7 hours a day to cover average use. Drive for free! (well free fuel)
Larry Smith I didn't say you could. I said you could put more than an average day's driving back into the battery. If you empty the battery every day, then sure, you need a faster way to charge. But then you're certainly not an average driver.
charging on a 110V outlet is impractical at best, I speak from experience on that. However the description of a level 2 charger installation is a misleading term. The charger is in the car so all you are providing is a power source. We charge from a 30A dryer plug with no problem daily.
$1500 for charger installation?? We spent $200, to have the 240 outlet wired. My wife has a 126 mile (round trip) commute. Never had an issue with home charging.
You don't need to install a high amp home charger. I use 120v home charging, and overnight charges to cover normal daily driving. For cross-country, superchargers are easily available.
Look on Craigslist. BMW are notorious for bad resale value due to high maintenance cost once they’re older. Also people with money to buy luxury German sedans typically don’t want used. I’d say the biggest reasons why theirs resale value is so bad
+Jacky Cheung [Ricky] it’ll take more than 24 hours to charge via a conventional outlet, so not sure I agree that it’s “optional” but yes technically ;) and maintenance for all cars is optional. I have owned two civics and they cost SO little to maintain. But to compare apples to apples we provided recommended maintenance
How long does it take to have enough charge depends on how far the owner need to travel. It is rare for the owner to travel a few hundred miles everyday and thus many EV owners are OK with the mobile EVSE. Also, with the proper adaptor, the mobile EVSE can use 200V 40A as long as it has the right outlet (sorry, I am not living in US and thus not remember how it was called). To install the outlet, it does not need $1500.
That’s true for a full charge from zero but most people drive less then Thirty miles a day you would plug it in each night so wall chargers an unnecessary upgrade for most drivers and then there’s the super charger network to cover you for quick charge ups as needed
I’ll skip the compliments because it’s obvious this video is awesome on every level. Some questions for you two and the other viewers: Wouldn’t the cost of Tesla be even less? Don’t they have the best warranty to cover any repairs? And what is there to break in the Tesla?
+/ itsnotak / [CHRIS] The Maintenance costs of the Tesla Model 3 are unknown, but much of the maintenance that Tesla recommends is pretty unnecessary IMO. And I suppose there are brains, sensors, motors, that could fail. I would be most concerned about batteries, and I think those have an 8 year warranty, so that satisfies my biggest fears. Really curious to see how resale value fares in 2019 thru 2023.
But those numbers have to be wrong, you even speak about the costs being mostly key fob batteries (the model 3 doesn't have a key fob), and the wiper blades... 475 bucks for what?
Jonas Wegelius It got regenerative breaking, no transmissions and more. Regarding sensors, both civic and BMW got those too. I really dont understand where the maintenance cost come from. Battery is under warranty
All cars have transmission. The meaning of transmission is to transfer power from the engine to the wheels. Tesla does not have gears in their transmission or a clutch. But with high-torque drivetrain comes high wear on transmission parts. Regarding brakes, yes I know, doesn't mean that the brakes won't eventually wear though, does it? Another thing I think was missing was insurance cost, right? That will be a lot higher on Tesla
I like this, thought it might be Tesla bashing but seems fair. In Europe with incentives and the price of fuel up to 10 times higher the Tesla rules this game.
I put 525 thousand kilometers on my 1993 civic and had negligible repairs needed.Only maintenance. And I still sold it for 1000 in 2013. It gave almost perfect reliability for 20 years. I got 45 miles per canadian gallon highway. This turned out to be the most extreme economical vehicle ever
If comparing a base model Civic to a base model Tesla M3 the equation might calculate differently. I think it would be a fairer comparison to look at the numbers with both vehicles fully loaded with options. I cannot think of any ICE powered car that needs refueling at 220 miles. Tesla's are known for high cost collision repairs. That can translate into high insurance rates for physical damage coverage. What about after the warranty expires? The Civic will still be able to get dealer and aftermarket parts and service long after the warranty is over. Other than eBay, where can you buy parts for Tesla's? Don't get me wrong, I like Tesla's an EV's but to think a niche vehicle will have a lower cost of ownership than an economy version of a popular mainstream vehicle just doesn't add up to me. If you want a Tesla then get one but I'm not convinced it's cheaper to own.
I think ultimately we will drop mpg or mpg e as a metric entirely. You could rate all vehicles in kWh or kWh e and then the benefits of EV's would be even more readily apparent. That is because liquid fuels are heavily subsidized (in the USA) and the kWh content is cheaper per kWh and IC Vehicles lose up to 80% of this energy as heat.
As an S owner, you forgot a few things, the Tesla needs brakes more frequently. There is no downshifting and the Tesla uses brakes for battery charging. I needed brake replacing at 27,000 miles while on my old Mercedes I never replaced the brakes and traded the car in with almost 70,000 miles. Service prices you have listed also does not include wheel alignment prices, Tesla charges $180 for tire rotation and wheel alignment on top of its annul service fee. That’s included in my benzs scheduled service fee. My tires on the Tesla lasted about 30,000 miles verse 45,000 on the Benz. Again they claim it’s part of regenerative braking system. The S has free super charging when you can find an available one and don’t by accident stay there longer than the allowed time, if you stay to fully charge your car, I received a bill from Tesla. Charging stations at the local mall and Whole Foods are very expensive, can be more than gas at times. They not only charge you for your charge but for your time plugged in as well. So remember to move your car or at least unplug it if you’re going to be there for any amount of time. The first 50k on my Tesla has cost me more to own than the Benz it replaced, the S had worse trade in value in the p90d than the s550 it replaced and required more maintenance costs and spent much more time in the shop for warranty issues. Fuel costs were much less on the S until you add in the cost of adding a home charger with any speed, it requires similar power as to adding an outdoor pool heater and may require you to upgrade your electric panel or add a second one like I needed to do. Plus the actual cost of Tesla’s higher speed charger, the cost of the electrician. Add that into the 50,000 mile cost and the Mercedes becomes much cheaper in fuel costs. The $130k Tesla traded in with 54k miles for about 50k the $107k Mercedes traded in with 69k miles for $56k. The Tesla dealer would not buy back my S because the dealer was currently over stocked with used S models and told me to go to car max. My replacement car dealer had no interest in trading in the Tesla since they are currently hard to resell on their lot and have no idea how to service or inspect them. They also stated they have too varying of prices at auction so they would not take in trade and also recommended car max. So for myself Tesla was new and very cool car but a bust until these kinks are better resolved. The car being cleaner because it creates less waste while consuming fuel or energy is one thing but replacing brakes 3 times to once on another vehicle is waste and replacing tires 1.5 times extra is waste. In cold weather by me the charge gets much less miles and loses charge parked outside in the cold even off. Forget parking it at an airport in the winter, even on a 3 day business trip I came back to a dead car. The car can not be towed, can’t be shifted into neutral without a charge, hood can’t be opened without a charge. A Tesla specialist has to come and remove part of the front bumper to give the car enough charge to get it into neutral and tow the car. The awd system is not great in bad weather it’s far from a Benz. The Tesla trunk constantly leaked water into it. The sunroof constantly leaked water. Plastic parts like cup holders broke, Tesla constantly replaced for free but on a car of this price point it’s ridiculous to even have these problems. Tesla added a heat plate under the car for a mandatory recall and computer update which caused me to get 14 less miles out of a full charge. At this point I feel like Tesla owners are beta testers for Tesla and they get to pay a premium to be the product tester instead of Tesla paying to test its products first. Also I bought my car with autopilot and didn’t actual receive the computer update for that paid for option until 7 months later. Only car manufacturer I know that charges for features that it doesn’t have functioning yet. You forgot to mention that 3 at 35k is base model and not well equipped like the bmw but similarly equipped with awd the 3 comes in at close to or over 60k. The 3 base is much closer to a civic than bmw 3 series, but you can equip the 3 like a bmw the options just run the car price up quickly, while the awd well equipped 3 series is still mid 40’s. The federal rebate on Tesla’s, based off sales is supposed to end around February or March when they hit their max number of rebates. So hopefully people on the waiting list were not counting on that.
[CHRIS] Thanks for the personal experience with your Model S, and the great points. It doesn't sound like the Model S worked out very well for you, primarily due to brakes, alignment, and tires, something we were not aware of. As far as trading in or selling, I guess we will need to wait to see if the Model 3 at around 1/4 or 1/3 the cost of the Model S, will see the same sort of resale issues. And the cold weather is definitely something others have pointed out and it would be interesting to see how much the battery capacity drops at various temps. As for quality control, I have heard a lot of fit and finish complaints, I wonder if this will extend to the Model 3. I am personally looking at leasing something like a Chevy Bolt, simply because then I don't need to worry about most of the issues you encountered. Maybe one day Tesla will lease Model 3s too.
I also own a Model S -- The Brakes are NOT used for regeneration. If you are having to put your foot on the brake pedal often enough to need a brake job, you are not getting much regen. Your brakes should last a "lifetime" if you set regen to High and drive mostly with the gas pedal (as intended.) Your tire wear probably mirrors your excess braking because of the way you drive. If you charge at home at night, you will probably get a better electricity rate. Here in SoCal, I charge for .16/kWh (vice .20 Supercharger rate). Given the crowding at Superchargers, I'm happy that they charge you for taking up space. You can charge at home thru a standard 220V outlet and still get a full charge in the off-peak hours overnight. No need to add a new panel or home charger. Tesla dealers don't buy back ANY Teslas, unless it is a trade-in on another Tesla. That all said, the Model 3 (much less your SP90D) outperforms almost everything on the road.
Scott just so you know, I was told my brakes wear is normal if you use autopilot for any amount of time. The pad size used are made for regen to kick in first while coasting before you brake but if you use autopilot the car uses gas and brake mostly. For safety purposes the car does not coast as much and tries to keep exact spacing which requires more speeding up and braking than most people driving on their own which would allow different gaps between the car in front. Tires wear faster when regen is causing more resistance, also wear more on dual motor versions I was told by my Tesla center. Tesla has printed rates for charging at their stations, by me it’s 0.22 per for A rate or first 30, than B rate of 0.37 kicks in for the next 60 kw. But on my S the A charging or 30 is free, there are very few of these chargers on the east coast. But there are private chargers at malls and Whole Foods, etc that charge .40-.50 per, making it a costly charge of $34-45. So I did mostly use a home charger and a faster charger for 90kw is required unless you can plug in for 14 hours with my standard wall outlet. The S is a quick car but not a well built car, lots of issues, my trunk always leaks. The sunroof leaks, plastic cup holder broke, glove box rattled. The list can go on, not sure if Tesla has gotten better since 2015 but based on the X I’m not sure I’d bet on it with the new 3 yet.
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are you crazy about this crap go get a job you trump loving, ass licking genius
You forgot to mention the battery depletion over time and the cost to replace them in the Tesla. Trump for POTUS 2020!
[CHRIS] Tesla guarantees 70% retention for years on their batteries. I would say selling before the 8 year mark would be the way to go if you are concerned about battery replacement costs.
Tesla is VERY CLEAR in their warranty - capacity is always replaced with like capacity. There is no capacity warranty whatsoever. You get a used battery. Imagine the lawsuits if Ford replaced defective engines with used engines. You are given an engine with 15,000 miles on it during the first year of the warranty, all the way up to 120,000 miles on the engine at year 8, then nothing at all. Tesla is not a serious attempt at an electric car company, Musk is quickly exiting the car market and taking his $100 billion in compensation while the company continues hemorrhaging losses. That's why Tesla bonds are now trading with junk ratings across the board. Capital markets are entirely closed to Tesla, they must raise cash with announcements and associated pyramid deposits. Wall Street says the company has already failed. I agree with them. Only about 250 Model 3's are being produced each month, but each Model 3 will out live the company, even with their near-ideal 6% capacity fade.
I disagree. With a gasoline car, it makes total sense to ask how many miles are on the car. With an electric, that doesn't matter as much, what matters is how many years are on the battery. LiOn life is primarily time bound, but also use bound. Note the losses in Table 3: batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Electric cars are not in a great position here, since they really need to be stored fully charged as range is an issue.
$475 For Tesla Key fob Battery and Wiperblade replacements?! The model 3 has NO KEYFOB... Only a card. It costs a whopping $5 to replace. So... are the wiperblades $235 each? Something ain't right.
This
how easy is is to duplicate that card and it's rf-id?
@@pogo1140 not easy. There hasnt been a single stolen tesla in the world that has not been returned.
They're just trying to sell Toyotas and Hondas you know how they get tax breaks and nobody else does just another trick to get you to buy Toyota and Hyundai
That's what I was thinking, suddenly I'm not so sure this guy has any idea what he's talking about. I'm not trying to replace my wipers every 2 weeks in the first year.
I forgot to mention, I have a Model S with 80,000+ miles and spend only 1,200 in maintenance for tires. No other costs. Didn't need to do the annual check up and it doesn't affect warranty either.
How much is going to cost your battery when it dies?
Kyco MC At the moment its looking like the batteries will be in good condition for about 300 - 400k miles (600k km)
so he'd probably need to replace the battery in 10 - 20 years for about $13k (at current price of batteries) but if batteries go down at the rate they are it'll probaly be under 7.k and you can reuse the batteries later for Tv remotes , Toy cars , Cellphones , (or just general energy storage) for 2 - 5 years worth about 2k if prices go down
Also with petroleum cars they generally get replaced every 5 - 10 years anyway and the amount that you save on electricity is ridiculous in AUS about 2.5k USD per year (at 15k miles its about 3.5k USD)
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 om telling you because my uncle asked me. His tesla roadster is 8 years old and the batteries give him a range of 30 miles.
Kyco MC Tesla's Battery quality has drastically increased since the roadster. How many miles on it btw
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 67,357
Thanks for the great content. I recently discovered your channel and am browsing through some of your older videos. It would be neat to see a 5 year update on this. You could compare how they held their value, how the change in gas prices affected the cost of ownership, the price of similar vehicles today.
model 3 doesn't have a key fob
[Ricky] Yes sorry many have pointed this out, we used data for the Tesla Service program for the Model S.
Two Bit da Vinci I would kindly suggest adding a correction then. There is no way that the Model 3's maintenance cost is that high.
If you're using the Model S cost as a base line then you're looking at maintenance costs from a completely different top end luxury bracket - for a car that is very different in many ways.
Maintenance none existing key fob battery and wipers cost 400 a year what is gold plated wipers and are oil changes factored in Honda and suspension parts are extremely well known to need yearly replacement
I agree. The video needs to have a correction as it is misleading at this point to customers.
PeteCorp what does that matter
You are liyng about the Tesla service costs! It is not even required during the first year and second year is only tire rotation and cabin filter replacement!
Dude tire rotations need to be done at 7500 miles so that’s twice a year. That’s just for starters
@NotTheCIA I.think LOL
@William Arrington thats because we are running circles around gas cars.
Toyot
@NotTheCIA I.think Electric parts and sensors that cost $200+ to buy and $170 /hr labor to install them. What, you think because it has less moving parts they won't break? You do know non moving parts in gas cars go bad tight? Tesla cars are hard to work on to where most people take it to the dealership. The only people who like Tesla are the fanboys who have been suckered into the marketing, which I'm not shocked. There has been a lot of brainwashing marketing lately from cars, social media ads and apps like Acorns, as if they are a smart choice. I've also noticed that tech enthusiast like these cars. If you work on cars or have any knowledge of good build quality in cars, they will all say Teslas are GARBAGE when it comes to reliability.
Lots of misinformation in the comments (as usual)... here are my facts:
Most of the service on the Model 3 is “suggested”, not required for keeping the warranty. The important one is replacing the battery coolant fluid after 4 years. That’s the only important service and costs $850, that’s it.
Insurance costs is another strange one... before I bought a Model 3 I made sure to get a quote from my Progressive insurance. It was within $20 of my Audi A4 at around $600 a year for a guy in his 40’s. Some people reporting hundreds of dollars per month need to switch insurance companies, that’s some sort of scam.
The battery should last at least 200,000 miles or more easily and this has been proven out by many older Model S’s. We don’t know how much that will cost yet, but at 200,000 miles or more, you’re talking about a 10 to 20 year old car at that point. My neighbor has 120000 miles on his Model S and the original battery has only degraded to 89% capacity at this point. He’s got plenty of life left in the battery. You just have to care for the battery meaning 1) do not supercharge often, and 2) do not charge over 90% unless you really need those extra miles the next morning.
once they implement their 'robo taxi fleet', the "cost of ownership" of a Tesla will be moot since it'll generate more money than it costs (according to Galactic Emperor Musk)
$850 for a basic fluid is beyond outrageous. Imagine what it would cost for something major... We're talking $8K and above
@@510jesus I assume that includes paying someone at the dealership to do it for you. It's definitely a rip off but well within the norms of the ridiculous prices auto shops charge for maintenance.
@@510jesus Yeah wtf, can we not do that ourselves? Right to Repair and all that.
@@i64fanatic My bet is there is a UA-cam video on how to do it yourself. Theres one for everything else...
BMW no maintenance for 2 years is laughable
When you buy a new car, maintenance is free of charge for the first 2 years
@@hadespogi Yeah it's something BMW started doing because folks were turning in their leased cars without ever having changed the oil.
Pogo HAHAHA
BMW is free to maintain for 4 years or 50000 miles... not 2. I never paid a dime before 4 years of owning a BMW.
@@hadespogi LOL It's definitely not everywhere... I paid about 340 € every year for the maintenance of my car, a mazda one, but I always paid about this price with all the other brand of car I had before, and BMW is even more expensive. But I get some info that EV (at least Tesla) doesn't have any maintenance before 2 years and it's only for the break liquid, then there is a maintenance at 4 years and it's of course break liquid again and cooling liquid for battery... Definitely far from the price announced here. So the Model 3 is even cheaper.
Would like to see how a Tesla 3 with all the added extras to the max (around $65K) compares too please! Thanks
[CHRIS] Thanks for the suggestion; we will consider it for a future video.
justinspirational oooh mark up central!
Or - how every other car maker/dealer rips you off
It is still leagues more expensive that BMW i3 tricked out. Only about 41k(maybe 46K if at a bad/corrupt dealership).
Musk won't be making the $35k model. High-end versions only.
justinspirational
Very true...
I am one of the dumb owners of model 3 which cost us $58k after all the extras and are ready to trade-in which one dealership quoted us $41k
The $7,500 tax credit does NOT simply disappear once a manufacturer hits 200,000 electrical vehicles. It stops being $7,500 two quarters after the manufacturer hits that mark, which it will then be $3,750 (50%), and again two quarters later it will be $1,875 (25%). Then it disappears. You did not mention this phase out at all.
4:35 The model 3 does not have a key fob battery. The card uses a passive RFID chip. Wiper blade replacements would not constitute $475.
I like this video, because it feels like a lot of research was done, and the animation is nice.
[Ricky] Thanks Jon, great points all around. The phase out was something we didn't discuss, and maybe we can make a follow up video discussing it. And the key fob was also a good point. We used maintenance data for Model S, since we couldn't find any data for the 3. So that is different, but our point was simply that these companies still have a list of things they'd like you to bring in to get checked out. The honda is similar too, I have had one, drove it to 200k miles, and never did all the stuff they recommended. Just what it needed and most of it was around the 100k mark.
thanks again for sharing Jon, we hope you'll subscribe, we have a lot of good stuff in the works!
No. it's going to disappear with the Senate's version of the current tax bill. I'm not paying for your EV wet dreams, pal!
Larry Smith the credit is designed to usher in new technologies lol. I don't think you understand economics there are all kinds of credits like this one to help companies get off the ground... This is something that's done to help generate jobs also
Not everyone pays 7500 in federal taxes to get the credit, Trump doesn't!
Even if the tax credit is around i still wouldn't include it. Remember that's only if you can use it. Most people max out there rrsps meaning the credit could be useless anyway. It's not free money
wiper blade replacements...only for the tesla? what else ca we pretend that only the tesla needs?
I put Bosch wipers on mine? as do everyone else
well this dude that made the video probably changes an immaginary turbo and a immaginary oil and oil filter so thats where the costs come from xD
LOL
Thanks for this. Appreciate the effort you have put in. Been thinking about this as an option. Catch is, electricity prices in Australia are quiet high and going anywhere outside of the main cities or countryside would leave you screwed.
Can't wait until I can get a 5 year old Model 3 used for $15,000.
5 year old Model S (2013) are priced in the $35K-$40K range, not $15K...
Larry Kuch he said model 3 numb nuts
@@butters9274
Lol
@@butters9274 very well said
@@butters9274 True, but the Model 3 will also not lower in value as much as other cars. The demand is just way too high. Everybody here wants electric.
You are wrong about the tax credit. You said it only works for the first 200,000 cars Tesla produces. The fact is it for the first 200,000 cars Tesla (or any company) sells in the US. There are Tesla's all over the world and those sold in any other country do not count to towards the 200,000 total.
[Ricky] Yes the US Federal Tax credit counts towards Tesla's sold in the US. Thought that was clear, but thanks for the clarification. We didn't talk about credits anywhere else because that would be a whole video by itself.
[CHRIS] Yeah, we didn't specify the US, but you are correct. However, the best numbers we could find & did cite are correct for the US (~140K sold). Here is one source: electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/
You should also add that the tax credit ‘phases out’ past the 200k cars sold in US. And in fact, for the first two quarters after the 200k landmark is hit, there is no limit to how many cars the manufacturer can sell that qualify the full $7.5k credit. After that it drops to 50%, then 33% before vanishing (I think I got the numbers right). It’s safe to assume that everyone that pre ordered the first few days (that’s about 250k orders) will get the full credit.
I was going to pile on for the tax credit error, but you beat me to it. Tesla will be able to deliver thousands of cars before the credit extinguishers completely.
Great video though.
Ioannis Nousias well said.
Any chance of getting an update of this video's subject matter?
It's still an ongoing question and there may be more solid data available.
Not sure what part of the world everyone else lives in and changes wipers yearly. I live in Canada and even after using wipers on an icy windshield they still last me two years guaranteed. They also cost $10 each to replace on your own.
Hot temperatures kill wipers.
This doesn't factor in solar energy from home, charging on the go being free for life for Tesla owners and the fact that gas around the world is often THREE TIMES as expensive as in America.
[Ricky] Free charging from Tesla we believe is only for the Model S and X, not the 3. Prices vary all around the world, so thats why we went through the effort of creating calculators and sharing them in the video.
Do you even own solar panels? I get around $40/month worth on average from my 500sqft panels which costed $$$$ to install. Also that free Tesla supercharger thing ... have you even used it? In populated areas there's always a line so you're wasting many hours a week for the free charging so I almost never use them. The only thing keeping me on my S is the autonomous driving. Once other cars get as good as a Tesla on this then I'm totally ditching Tesla for good.
Plus gas varies a lot through the year and electricity is quite stable
for example: CZECH REPUBLIC - $20,- monthly fee for unlimited charging ;)
Your right that gas is alot more around the world. The u.s subsidize the shit out of gas. With the 3 you gotta pay for chargers, there is a one time fee if you dont want to but i think its quite a bit of money.
Great video and very well produced! However, I have owned a Model S (P85D) for over 3 years and have about 45,000 miles on it. It has cost me a total of about $300 in maintenance. THERE IS NO scheduled maintenance that is required! Tesla "recommends" the maintenance checkup at the service center which you factored in. It dos NOT void or affect your warranty to forgo it. All they do is inspect the car, replace the wipers, cabin air filter, and rotate the tires. All of which you can do for far less than the "scheduled" maintenance from Tesla. Also, I do not have the home charger, nor is required it is optional. The charger that comes with the car works fine. I paid an electrician about $120 to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage to plug into and charge.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing your real world experience. Yes, the maintenance plan is optional, and is likely not to be used by many, making the TCO even lower. And on the charger, again as you stated, it is optional. We did look at L2 charger + installation costs across the US, and we went on the high end. Again, plug in your own numbers to our calculator, and determine TCO for your needs.
How fast can you charge at home from empty to full battery using your 220V home charging station ?
You can buy home charging stations anywhere from 16A to 40A giving a charge rate of between 3.8kW/h and 9.6kW/h. That would equate to times of about 13 hours and 5 hours to fully charge a 50kWh Model 3.
Regarding the $1500 installation cost mentioned in the video; I was quoted $1000 to install a new 30A line from the panel by an electrician and the unit itself was $500. However, in the end I just routed the existing 40A electric cooker line into the garage (as I never intend to own one) and PG&E gave me $500 cash for switching to a time-of-day electrical rate schedule, so the overall cost can easily be negligible.
How fast is the 85d? That's the model I plan on getting.
You don't need to install an L2 charger at home, and we typically charge our cars at night, at 12.5c per KWH. Plus, Teslas hold their values real good, so I am surprised that the resale value is only coming at 43%, less than the civic. In today's world, buying an ev is the smart move over an ice car imo.
For the first 5 years on a civic you are going to do 2 oil changes per year , change the wipers, and get new tires. Not going to be the maintenance cost described here.
How much does Tesla maintenance and repairs cost 'outside' of warranty?
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4:35 about $500 for key fob battery (it's a key card) and wipers? AutoZone has those for under 30 but still great video 👏👏👏👍 next Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Toyota Prius versus Tesla model3.
[CHRIS] We used the recommended maintenance for the Model S/X, and didn't explain it very well. Many won't use the paid Tesla recommended maintenance plan, making the TCO even more compelling. We are looking at a future video, and considering several cars, but the Chevy Bolt keeps rising to the top as one contender.
Two Bit da Vinci yes that would be a great video. keep up the great content fellow UA-cam creators 👍liked
Tampatec dude you dont get a new keyfob when the battery runs out - you can NFC charge the batteries of any other keyfob at any key cutter
Two Bit da vinci.....Rising above imho.
I'm leasing an electric car - and your 'maintenance' costs just don't make sense - Besides, this is 'Murica - maybe 10% of electric car owners are going to follow any maintenance schedule.
In Norway gas is expensive and electricity is cheap. Also no taxes on EV's. I think it's safe to say EV's are the future, and the future is now.
that's great
There are no subsidies. No tax credit.
But gasoline/diesel vehicles are very highly taxed, EVs are not. And gasoline, as Einar mentioned, is very expensive - to the tune of almost $2 per liter - $7-8 per gallon.
question wat its cost of repair in electric car explaain plz , just come my mind brake pads or its electrical engine breaks or battery dies?
Where did you get your $475 battery and wiper blades? You overpaid about $425. And that's with really good wiper blades
The cost of insurance is different for the 3 cars. I heard, that the insurance for the model 3 was expensive so far. It would have been interesting to factor it in the break down costs...
Check out our bolt video, model 3 isn’t as bad as we’d heard
Good analysis, in Sweden the fuel cost is 2,5-3 times higher so here it’s even more a no brainer to get the tesla!
+mikeberg [Ricky] Sweden I think buys more Tesla’s per capital than most countries! So so we understand, how much is a gallon of petrol (3.8 liters) and how much do you pay per kWh? Thanks!!
+mikeberg [CHRIS] Yeah, we complain about gas prices in the US, but it’s really bad in Europe and clearly in Sweden. Do you know what the government incentives are in Sweden? I think Norway is the #2 market for Tesla, Just curious how other Scandinavian countries compare. And what about registration taxes, which I heard are high for regular cars?
Two Bit da Vinci The kWh price varors but around 10 cents USD is pretty common. A US gallon 95 octane is about 6 USD here....
Two Bit da Vinci I plan to get about 7500 USD back from the government. The price of the 35 kUSD M3 will be higher than the US because of customs fees and VAT it will be something like 53 kUSD, the US rate also effects this. In Norway they have removed VAT and other taxes making a Tesla model S comparably priced to a Volvo more or less, Tesla’s are selling like lemonade on a hot day!
+mikeberg [Ricky] wow so 60 kWh per gallon which means your model three will run about 260 miles for the same price as a gallon of gasoline!!! amazing
I’m in Finance and this is how you do a total cost of ownership model! Awesome video too!
The only critique- if at all, is to add NPV to it. But that’s me being picky.
Awesome job and summary.
$475 maintenance for Model 3 is so not true. Not even close. Especially just driving 15k miles. A charger capable of charging up to 30 miles per hour comes free with the Model 3 with a 14-50 adapter. I just has an electrician install my 14-50 outlet for $460 including parts. The $500 charger you can purchase from Tesla only gives you up to 44 miles per hour.
My electrician beat yours.$270 parts and labor. Consumer Reports estimated the installation cost at $2000. I don't know where these people come up with their info.
@@frankfazekas5414 My electrician beat yours. A whopping $100.00 parts + $1.00 bottle of water labor. Got two plugs and secondary panel for garage. Can now split both to 50A, or double up 1 outlet to 100A and move the second to the switchable dryer circuit. Send family members to trade school!
@@latimer4964 exactly what I would do any 220v outlet is game, to plug in a Tesla and it cost peanuts to charge.
@@frankfazekas5414 I did it myself. About $30, because I had to buy more 50A cable than I needed (about 2 feet from the box to the outlet).
Nice explaining video. Wow, although a fan of Tesla didn’t know Model 3 (when $35K option is available) has 5 year CTO of $21K. That is irresistible 👍🏻
I'd like to see cost of ownership over 10 years, factoring in a battery replacement around year 9. Model 3's offer an 8 year warranty on their battery. I'd also like to know more about how your maintenance costs were calculated. I'm also floored that you guys are still talking about a $35,000 Tesla Model 3 when the cheapest Model 3 currently available is $46,000, and it was $49,000 a few months ago.
nobody keeps a BMW for 10 years--not even 5.
Sure they do. My brother-in-law has a 2003 330CI with 153,000+ on it and runs perfect. I change the oil, brakes/rotors, and more. Very good automobile.
BMW cars are made for 4 years and 50,000 miles....when the lease is up, they die. That is why smart used BMW buyers get the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty. It costs about $2500 but will save the owner twice that. Some story about some brother in law who has 153,000 miles in his BMW from 16 years ago is NOT going to change that fact.
There are plenty of BMW's out there with 150K miles...and about $15K in repair bills. You want a car that goes 150K without repair bills it has to say TOYOTA or HONDA on the hood.
@@chadhaire1711 Hey, I'm the person how's brother-in-law has the BMMR. You are right about the cost of keeping one of these cars. The heat failed a couple of months ago and the repair was $842 and had to be done by BMW. If it turned out the heater core needed replacement, it would have cost $2,300. But since I'm able to help with most other things, we've kept the cost down. If it were my car, I'd get rid of it and buy something less expensive to maintain.
TOYOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What’s the cost per year of mod 3 compared with a Volt and a Prius?
Why compare to a Prius? That's a Hybrid. Totally different model and BTW I suspect that the Tesla kicks its ass but I've never run the numbers because it's so different. I did test drive a used 2017 Lexus CT200 F-Sport before I went with the Tesla 3 and the dictionary definition of no-contest, no- comparison is those two. Hybrids and EVs don't play in the same space.
Hi!
With wich software did you make the animations and Video itself? I like the style very much. It‘s a good way to make a complex subject understandable.
Thanks for the work!
Apple Final Cut Pro X & Motion for this video. For our newer videos we also use Blender.
There's a guy on here, saying that Tesla brakes wear out faster because you are always using them for regenerative braking. Oh God. I had to correct a journalist depicting the new electric Nissan LEAF 2018 model, because she spoke about regenerative brakes as if they were ACTUALLY a special set of brake disks and pads and stuff?! This is depressing. For the record, the electric motor of the type any decent electric car uses, is often referred to by engineers simply as an electric machine.
This is because it is both a motor and a generator. Putting power through the electric machine, makes it perform effort to turn the shaft or wheel surrounding it (if it is a motor-in-a-wheel type). In other words, it is acting as a motor.
If however the machine is forced to rotate faster than the amount of power you are putting in, it acts as a net generator. Putting mechanical effort into rotating the rotor, causes a voltage to be created at the electrical terminals or wires sticking out of the electric machine, and a current will flow if some load (eg a battery willing to take charge) is connected to those wires.
This is regenerative braking - the act of what on a normal combustion engine car we call 'overrun'. Of course, ONLY an electric motor can perform this dual role, in conjunction with a battery pack able to take up the energy so generated.
So, for the record, for anyone wondering, there are no special regenerative brakes, there IS regenerative braking, caused by letting the vehicle be forced onward by its inertia, in what we would normally term an 'overrun' situation. EG coasting downhill, without having to use the throttle/accelerator. No special brakes, with special regen pads and regen disks! Actually, if someone would care to invent some, I will buy them and fit them to my old diesel Volvo, that would be brilliant, thanks in advance!
+Sleekitwan, yes regen braking doesn't consume brake pads it's the electric motor bring turned into a generator when you let off of the accelerator. As far as it being called overrun in an internal combustion engine, that is a first for me, I have always heard it called and or called it engine braking. Maybe it's a US thing?
If anything, regenerative braking should help your brake pads last LONGER since they no longer have to provide all of the braking forces.
Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust. When the brakes are used they will dry the discs before they start to rust and they will last longer as the rust will quite effectively "eat" into the metal of the discs when they are wet.
Be realistic though. There is no 35k Tesla and there are none in the works. Base model is $50k. It's probably not going to 35 anytime soon.
The regen isn't even doing that much other than saving wear on your brakes. Batteries cannot handle giant surges coming in.
IF EVs catch on, the price of electricity is going to skyrocket. The price of wall charges will go up quite a bit for quite some time, though it would eventually come down. The $1500 is assuming you have the right wiring to your garage and that assumes you have a garage.
There are massive fit and finish problems with Tesla. There are many stories by Tesla lovers of endless shop and home visits to fix many, many minor but annoying problems for a $50k car and that's the cheapest one. The ones being sold are in the 70-$100k range.
+Tom Arne Knashaug, "Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. " no... no... noooo.... just... no.... I get what you are trying to say, really I do... but you are not taking some very basic fundamentals into consideration.
"The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust."
This, and everything after it is based on seriously misunderstanding the very basics of what is being talked about. To elaborate on that and not just say you are wrong without saying why...
In order for brake discs to rust it will take a while. At least a day or longer before even beginning to show any minute surface rust (weeks before the rust will really matter in the realm of higher initial wear). Maybe if you drive through a salty puddle it will take a few hours? Ok let's say it can somehow magically rust in 2 hours. Regenerative braking doesn't stop the car. It slows the car. Well it can "stop" the car sort of if you have enough distance to actually come to a rolling stop. It would be close to what you would do by engine braking with a normal car just let off the accelerator while in gear. So... how do you stop? Well, it's a novel idea. You use the pedal next to the accelerator called a brake pedal. This applies the brake pads to the brake disc and it begins to slow the car and if held long enough with enough pressure it is very effective at stopping the car.
All joking aside the point is that you need to use the brakes in order to stop. Unless you are driving cross country and never touch the brake pedal in very salty hostile weather there is very little time for "rust" to accumulate quick enough and to the degree it needs to for this to really matter. Every time you hit the brake pedal it starts the cycle all over again.
I would agree with what you are saying if... and only if regenerative braking essentially replaced the brake pedal in normal everyday operation, and maybe only using the brakes to come to a complete stop once every other day. The reality is regenerative braking slows the car... not stops it. Think of all the times you press the brake pedal during a normal drive. You press it to stop, and to slow down for corners speed limit changes, etc. Now imagine you just letting off of the accelerator to slow down instead of hitting the brake pedal. You still need the actual brakes to come to a complete stop. So all the times you come to a complete stop during a normal drive will be enough to keep the discs as free of rust as driving without regenerative braking.
Shame it’s gonna be a years before getting one in the UK and the price of around 30-35k
ADMR1985 in Finland tesla model 3 will be aroud 70-80k euros. Only the rich have money to buy this in here
Both u are morons if u really go for a tesla right NOW, within the next 5 years u will see pretty much every single car brand out there with electric cars.
Dont forget that Tesla only works on the battery and power but not on reliability which is key on cars, there will be better electronic cars out soon.
D Payne u moron. We didnt say that :D
You should have your own electric car company Brexit
Why would anyone buy an oversized mobility scooter, with a 5 year old battery?
Thanks for the video, it gives me things to think about. The first thing I thought of was my new insurance rate for this vehicle. I got an estimate from my insurance company and it would double what I'm currently paying. To get a true cost of ownership, car insurance cannot be omitted because I'd bet there's a big difference in a Civic vs. a Model 3 - and after 5 years, that would be a significant cost.
Same thing for the maintenance: I've had a model S for 3 years, got no maintenance on it whatsoever. Maintenance cost so far as been 0 (they sent a van to rotate my tires for free, and I paid maybe $100 to get a tire fixed after I got a flat once).
Cool
Tesla quality is SHIT so dont tell us there are no repairs--these cars fall apart in a hurry
@@chadhaire1711 You probably don't even own a Tesla.
@@mojejaje2073 Luka: I test cars for a living Goober--i dont have to buy shit.
@@chadhaire1711 Experience>Knowledge
What about true emissions ? Like calculate from production of electricity that is used, production of battery, recycling of battery.
[Ricky] Sounds like a good idea for a future video, subscribe and stay tuned!
not to mention production, storage and distribution of petroleum ?
That's a very salient point. A recent study found a Tesla takes 8 years to start saving CO2 over a conventional car.
Replevideo Would be curious as to who sponsored the study and whether it was accepted by an unbiased scientific community ?
There are done a lot of studies on that, and most of them shows that even with unclean energy, the EVs come out on top
First, very useful comparison.
1. Comparison here is for $35000 model 3 which is not available, yet. Minimum available is $49000 that adds $8000 to model3 total cost (57% depreciation). By the time real 35k car is available, tax rebates will be gone. :(
2. How long battery typically last. How much does it cost to replace/repair battery?
And there should be tax rebates.....Tesla should not be subsidized by the government. They are losing money.
This is by far the best detail description I've seen yet...
Please update this its over 1 year & improvements have been made by far PLUS the M3 is actually $35K now..
Don't forget to add the warranties.
Very well made analysis! Joe Scott brought me here :)
No its not. He made this video at a time when the model 3 wasn't even out yet. Realistically he's just making up numbers it sounds and doesn't know anything about the model 3. And further more how TF is a BMW cheaper to maintain? I call bull on that. And FYI the model 3 doesn't have a key fob stupid 🤦🏽😒
@@sammhtx3943 indeed this guy just talks from his butthole
You mentioned a key fob battery for he model 3 but it has no key fob...
[CHRIS] Yes, we made a mistake by using Model S maintenance plan. You and about 5000 other people have pointed this out.
I am an owner of a Civic XT and I can tell you that I have not spend on maintenance that much as estimated in this vdo. I drive it around 13K miles a year and changed oil only once a year. For two years now my maintenance cost is about $500 total. Probably cost of washing it is half of that. The most expensive thing I had to do is to pay for a deductible when my kid crashed it. It cost me only around a thousand a year to insure. No way you can insure a Tesla for less than 1K a year. The best thing about owning an ICE car is that there is no range anxiety. Honda Civic reliability is legendary. That alone is worth my hard earned money.
[CHRIS] All good points, but to be fair, the actual maintenance on the Tesla will likely be lower too. FYI, we used projected maintenance and repiar costs from Edmunds.com for the ICE vehicles.
Edmunds.com is notorious for its inaccuracy in repair and operating costs and used vehicle prices.
Yes, you have range anxiety. That's why you go to smelly ass dangerous gas stations still. I don't. I plug in at home and wake up with 250 miles ready to go and more than that if I feel like saying "SIRI, DIRECTIONS TO THE NEAREST EV GO STATION".
Honestly, until you own an EV, shut up. Just listen to the people who own an EV and take notes. You have no right to comment about something you know nothing about. You're a virgin talking about sex. Just "Shhhhhh."
Well now what if you have to travel more than 250? hmmm how long will it take to charge? On the road where will you recharge? How about the magnetic field around you body causing health problems and maybe cancer? What is the cost of replacing the battery? Can the battery catch on fire or if there is a short from a wreck will you burn? There is more but I dont have time
1st off Great video not one bad thing to say at all! Now that said a couple missed points, as a car enthusiast it is not modifiable not everyone buys a car just to drive too and fro! As a avid road tripper that's something people may forget to factor in. I don't know charge time but 250 miles is about a 3-4hr trip based on 65mph and having to locate a charging station may necessitate you to alter your destination or route or get a rental. Remember gas is readily available within a mile or two of most exits. Plus to "re-fuel" you have to locate and park at a local charging station to charge up when you could of been in transit. This affects you if you also can't get a charging station installed as this can only happen if you have a house and not a rental or apartment! But never the less the most insightful video to date.... Keep up the good work!
Awesome comments!!!!! Yes you make some great points. Modifications are tougher but trust us, when EVs take off there will be an after market scene. There will be shops that offer higher output motors for your EV. Eco flashing tuning, battery pack mods etc
All future videos so subscribe and stay tuned!
I sure hope no enthusiast buys a 330i or a base civic with a good screen and leather seats...
Good vid, well done.
The tax credit thing is really wrong. The 200k applies to US deliveries but more importantly, it expires in the quarter after the 200,000th vehicle is sold in the US. That means if vehicle number 200,000 is sold say on April 1, 2018 first day of Q2 2018), then every car delivered by Sep 30, 2018 (last day of Q3 2018) would qualify for the $7,500 credit. Further, the credit then tapers off, so Q4 '18 and Q1 '19 would each receive $3,750 credit and Q2 '19 and Q3 '19 would receive half of that amount or $1,875. I don't know whether they will cross the 200k threshold in Q1 or Q2 of 2018.
+EarlMalmsteen [Ricky] Yes we misspoke and we apologize! Thanks as others have pointed out you it it on the head. Great write up. We may make a follow up video to this
I think you also have to consider bodywork. My buddy was rear ended in his Model S. The car has been in the shop for 6 months and they haven't started fixing it.
He needs a car to commute to work. His insurance only paid for the first 30 days of his loaner. He is paying almost $1000 for his rental. While still making payments on his Model S he had for 8 months, before it was hit. He is planning to sell it the day it is finally fixed.
[CHRIS] This is a really good point, and others have mentioned it. I have to think the Model 3 will similar to the S in this regard.
The worst part is, they only give him the runaround. Otherwise he would have just bought a winter beater, instead of renting a corolla at his cost for 5 months and counting. Whenever he calls, they tell him the same thing, parts are on the way. They have even lied and told him parts were being shipped overnight.
He bought this car to save money as he commutes from Seattle to Everett each day. He is going to lose thousands, from an accident that was not his fault. Tesla does not care at all about that. Know what happens if you get rear ended in a Civic? They write it off and hand you a cheque, or fix it within a week or two.
[CHRIS] I have no problem with Tesla Corp cutting out the dealer, and selling only direct to customers. But when it comes to repairs and body work, it sounds like they have really dropped the ball. The sad part is that even if there were 3rd parties that could repair Teslas, chances are, any parts availability would be even worse. It's crazy that Tesla can drag out repairs for so long and not have some legal obligation to compensate their customers.
No,the Model 3 is not the same as the Model S in terms of repair. The Model 3 body is made of steel while the Model S is aluminum. Few body shops work on aluminum bodies. This is why work on the Tesla Model S may take quite a while. Limited availability in repair shops.
We picked up our Standard Range Plus Model 3 March 26 and it has fully met and exceeded our expectations. We traded in a 2017 Prius Prime Plus, 16,000 miles, and got $18,300. We also bought basic AutoPilot, $3,000, which is today standard on all Teslas. AutoPilot should be part of any future comparisons.
I continue to do my engineering studies but it appears the EPA metrics are not as accurate as I would wish. A visit to a truck weighing station revealed it is lighter than EPA listed and power different than EPA claimed. Regardless, it is a pretty good little pocket rocket. Our backup is a 2014 BMW i3-REx.
Tesla scheduled maintenance is no longer required. Even before that, maintenance was once every two years... this brings Model 3 on par with civic
Actually it further surpasses it since they were actually almost doubling the national average for kWh rates. For the last almost decade the national average has been less than 13 cent per kWh. This rate cuts the cost they used for fuel by about 40% over 5 years.
Great video! Have you done one including having rooftop solar at home with a few extra panels to remain at net zero grid power consumption while charging your Tesla, amortizing the cost of the solar array over their 35 year product life (as low as $0.03/kWh, over the 35 years without inflation)? The cost per mile really starts to drop on your own solar power, not to mention it's then a solar powered super clean car and you are your own power company and gas/fueling station!
[Ricky] Great point, maybe its something we can cover in the future ;)
Sounds great and the ideal situation for anyone, but the factories to make these parts will make a footprint in the environment which I believe is what Elon is trying to avoid.
@@Goddess_Char Oh you DEPLORABLE FOSSIL FUELS TROLL!!
Of course making solar panels that last 35+ years and are 95+% recyclable has a carbon footprint you radically ignorant Neanderthal. And of course it's (proven to be if you weren't a denier of science like a MAGA) footprint is radically smaller than building a fossil fuels burning power plant, mining and burning fossil fuels and maintaining it for 35+ years.
You Republicans should all suck a tailpipe and fade off into the sunset.
And there's no such thing as gods you silly MAGA, that's mythology shit and radically bigoted.
One thing you missed was Car insurance
@sada das How bad is it?
Yes and car registration too
@@RamzaJinnRuu My boss owns Teslas and he said that the minimum insurance he was able to get was $250/month
@@smaranh Well . . . . . . . shit. I guess I'll just stick to my plan on buying a Rogue or Rogue Sport then.
@@RamzaJinnRuu You might want to check out 2020 Kia Telluride
When do u need to change battery? Whether the battery loses capacity over the years of use??
How long does the battery last? Or Are they using CAPACITOR to instantly charge? what is the cost of the battery replacement after how many miles? (car pool lane in Calif will be an advantage)
check out our channel, we have a 2 part series, that covers this.
A comparison of the hybrids would be great.
[Ricky] Yeah that's a good point, something like a Prius would be $25k and get 50mpg cutting into the Model 3 savings in both directions!
Great video. Thank you.
I know that it is difficult to know the Tesla real depreciation. But, would it be higher or lower than a gasoline car?
Thank you so much so informative
Nice video, however I think your maintenance figures for the Model 3 are off. It has no key fob, so nothing to replace, which was one of your key points for why the service charge was high
+Vitz Patel [Ricky] it’s based on model S but it’s not zero. Just like the civic not everyone will perform this maintenance procedures. But to compare apples to apples we included both. Honestly I have had two civics and one I had to 200k miles and cost me very little in maintenance.
Maintenance cost of my Model S for one year at 25K miles is ZERO dollars (I don't use key fob since I have my phone with me all the time). I had washer fluid refilled once for free at a service center when they upgraded the car software to get extra 100 horsepower last week.
+Alexandre Andrianov [Ricky] yah we called out what Tesla recommends same as all cars. I have had civics in the past that required so little maintenance. But we wanted to keep it apples to apples and use recommended intervals and costs
Two Bit da Vinci think you plucked them maintenance costs out of your arse to be honest... how can a ice car have lower maintenance costs than a EV? Ice need oil and filter changes! That alone is a considerable higher cost than a few wiper blades, a few wiper blades that the ice car would still require!!! no? 🙄
tonefiesta I think the point was that battery fob batteries and wiper blades are more expensive for Tesla. The biggest expense will be tires.
This video is informative but credibility drops due to a couple of points: That is not the Model 3 logo thanks to Adidas. You said the 1st year Model 3 maintenance will cost $475 mostly due to keyfob battery replacements and wiper blade replacements. The Model 3 has no keyfob and its wiper blades are no different than other cars. Still, it is a very good video and thanks for sharing the spreadsheet too.
Tom Hoffman [CHRIS] So the maintenance info is based on Tesla’s website for their current models (S & X). We should have been more clear about that. Point is still the same: most of Tesla’s recommended maintenance is probably not needed, though I am not sure it they require any or all of it to keep your warranty in tact. Thanks for your comments, we will try to work on our credibility more next time.
warranty is not affected by skipping some service. got it first hand from Tesla.
Also doesn’t include California tax credits.
Mike, he can not go through and list the tax credit for each state.
Wiper blades are referring to the brushes inside the electric motor, not the windshield wipers. These wear out over time and have to be replaced.
what about the fuel gasoline cars burn while running idle in parking lots and signals?
used to run different BMWs from 120i to M5, and let me tell you it was maintenance/repairs + petrol that's always been killing me (here in Germany we pay ~1,50 € / l) , so naturally I'm in with a reservation for a Tesla 3 - we've got VWs, too, a bit better then the BMs they are, but certainly less fun to drive ;-)
Absolutely! I secretly still dream about buying a 2002 M5, one of my favorite cars ever. But I know the service costs to keep it running will be quite high. Thanks for your comment!
I was just reflecting on the maintenance costs for my 20 year old Lexus. I replaced 4 tires last year for $100 and changed the oil myself for $13. The battery was replaced under warranty (free). I had a defective fuel pulse damper that I replaced myself for $21 and 15 min. work. The only other part failure EVER was a small thing that I could have done myself but paid a shop to do the diagnosis and replacement for about $100. Others were just consumables like wiper refills, brake pads (easy DIY) and the very rare bulb. Insurance is expensive at about $1000/yr. The "maintenance" costs described here seem very high to a frugal guy like me, but I'm old. A few years ago, they did bring a Model S to me for a drive. It was certainly impressive, at least superficially.
Lexus is like the most reliable car on earth so great choice. Also most people don’t do the work themselves
There's really no "work". Changing oil and knowing exactly what's going into the car is very satisfying. The one repair done by a shop was something I could easily have done and so could absolutely anyone else but didn't have the time then. Obviously I don't replace tires myself but the shop I use properly HAND TORQUES all lug nuts to factory specs. I like that! Wonder if Tesla does. Low frequency of repair rate = reliability = quality to me. I did notice that Tyler Hoover posted a video on a Tesla Model S he had bought from the father of a Tesla engineer. I think he said that the car was already on its third motor! Hope I recalled that correctly. If so, that would be shocking.
you dont drive it. its obvious
Yes, I really should have been clearer. The tires were $100 each with installation included. I change the oil every year at 5K and the part replaced was the only non-wear item like brakes, wipers, batteries. The car is my daily driver but I only put about 5k/year on it these days.
how much was 20 YEARS of gas?
if you are in bumper to bumper traffic most of the time 0-60 time doesnt really matter. I mean its fun and all to drive fast but its not all that important to me.
Good effort guys, some good points made. Good to find out about the MPGe. I've subscribed. A few nits though. I've owned a Focus EV for almost two years now and there are NO maintenance costs (may need wipers depending on where you live but that will be the same for ICE cars). Besides never having to pull into a gas station to fuel up, it's one of the ways driving an EV will put a smile on your face. I'm guessing the maintenance costs for all the cars include the recommended maintenance/inspection visits which are overpriced and of questionable value. I would only calculate the oil/filter changes for the ICE cars as maintenance for the delta. EV cars are also very easy on brake pads due to regen braking. Including $1500 for the charging station should be shown as an optional separate charge. I purchased a Level 2 Siemens charger for $500, installed it myself, and received a $500 rebate from my utility company.
[Ricky] Totally agree, we used "recommended maintenance" from the company, and all these guys recommend all sorts of things that no one really does. Great points
So dope thank you for your advice
Video is very well done! Thanks for compiling those numbers.
The Model 3 maintenance cost seems too high though, unless you replace the wiper blade once per month.
adam roy This. Tesla has no oil to replace, transmission fluid, coolant, spark plugs or wires. Just tires and window washer fluid. Tesla warranty is in a class of its own for any major expenses.
Agreed. Been driving electric for a year now and ZERO maintenance costs. Just drive it and plug in at home. $12 a month to operate thus far.
Yes, the maintenance cost is ridiculous for the Model3! And then adds in $1500 for electricity set up when I can plug into electric dryer plug for free;-)
and there is no need to replace the key fob battery since the key will be your phone most of the time
Those costs are completely unrealistic, over 5 years I spent no more than $1000 on BMW maintenance (including tires, wipers, etc)
And the expenses for the Tesla are ridiculous. You're not likely to need key fob replacement and if you do, it's likely covered under warranty. And there is no need for brake pad replacement until about 100,000 miles, if ever, while both of the comparison vehicles will need brakes at least once per year.
Many people pointed this out already. The Model 3 doesn't even use key fobs at all.
Captain Crunch That's right- I forgot! It's a key card and phone app!
Yep, which is why many people complained about their estimates. They used the estimates from the Model s, which are way inaccurate for the Model 3.
I think they just wanted to list something as a comparison. There is no data yet on the Model 3. But unfortunately, that comparison includes items that don't even exist on the Model 3.
Where did you send the money on maintenence on the model 3?
Awesome comparison stats
The cost of the autopilot options should be added to the purchase price of the T3
What would be the different depreciation of the T3 with and without the autopilot options?
Those who put $1,000 down are not concern about money, what they have in mind is more important than money. Renewable energy that won't hurt the next generations to come eventually save our planet.
Johna Joseph lol. The energy is just offset. Even if you used solar or wind to generate energy the footprint of manufacturing the solar or wind farms is enormous.
+Josh M [Ricky] most reports I’ve read say that the first three years of solar offsets it’s manufacturing emissions. After that it’s a green
Actually, I just dont want to go to a gas station ever again. I do all my shopping online and Amazon even delivers groceries to my doorstep for free. I already have an insane amount of free time and with a Tesla I can have even more.
+R Kely P N on U agreed!!
Nope. I want a car that will drive itself and smoke most other cars. Can't yet afford an S or the roadster 2, so the model 3 it is.
Can't wait to get one! Though a used Leaf is incredibly cheap these days if you need a local car only
[Ricky] We didn't really get into it, but one of the major drawbacks of EV's to date have been horrible resale values like the LEAF. a new Leaf for 35k is worth like 10k 3 years later, its unheard of, but Tesla has seemed to figure that out with superior technology, warranties and desirability.
Hi Ricky! If you set aside the federal tax credit, a $35k Tesla will actually cost you $35k. There are no dealer discounts on a brand new, never demo'd vehicle and no manufacturer's rebates. A $35k LEAF could easily be purchased for $28k or less after dealer discounts and Manufacturer's rebates. That's a 20% depreciation before the car is even sold to the first owner, let alone when it is actually "driven off the lot." When you consider the Tax Credit, a "$35k LEAF" actually only cost $21,500 or less to the first buyer. Depreciation from $21,500 to $10k in 3 years makes a lot more sense and in reality is what is happening.
Not really. They've propped up resale values by leasing the cars themselves. They also control a significant portion of the resale market.
2:46 ok i will install a supercharger at my home
Scott Luther ever heard of sarcasm?
Scott Luther my MX is fine with 11kw tho
Imma cop me a Tesla Model 3 with the high performance features so I can get the red calipers💪🏾😍
What will happen to your cost of ownership calcs when you have to replace that Honda or BMW after a couple hundred thousand miles, but the Model 3 just keeps on humming?
[CHRIS] Great question, if you keep a car that long, and if that actually happens. I guess we will need to wait about 10 years to find out.
Own my Nissan Leaf during ~7 years: Paid for tires 'only' !! EV owners even do not pay for a break pads because most energy regenerates. I did drive mostly mountain roads during those 7 years - pads are new!
+Steve Pimen [Ricky] great point!
Great video with very specific data. Thank you for making this video.
A few points are slightly off for cost in Texas.
First my kw charge is not $0.20 but $0.096.
Second my charger installation was $200.00 for 50 amp range plug installed near carport. This gives me over 7kw/hr and don't even use wall connector. Only use charging cable that Tesla supplies with each Tesla.
Otherwise you information was very usefull.
Thanks
Robert in Wichita Falls
Some day there will probably be a $35000 Tesla, but at the time an honest comparison would use a $44,000 price.
Maybe this comparison should have used the Nissan Leaf.
In that case the Leaf would be quite a bit higher maintenance cost.
honda, we've all been there done that.
time to move onward.
You didn't factor battery replacement and how it'll affect resale cost. Sinceriously?
we have a two part battery series on our channel check it out!
how is the value of the model 3 decreasing ? i searching for a used model 3 10k km and its still a as expensive as a new one
I bought an Ioniq for $22,000. Based on this video I am dominating the cost spectrum since I have driven 11,000 miles, spending $500 in gas and $65 in maintenance with an average fuel economy of 61.4 mpg. To me the real test is the 300,000 mile mark though.
[CHRIS] Assuming you got the Plugin Hybrid version of the Ioniq? How are you liking it so far?
Actually it is just the standard HEV. It has been a great car so far but I am finding out the downside to having an extremely efficient engine in the form of winter warm up time. Winter temps often drop into single digits where I live which means the car has to be driven for 10+ miles just for the engine to warm up. This translates into a lower fuel economy since the car is constantly trying running the ICE just to keep warm. My last fill up gave me only 51mpg compared to 64 during the summer...ouch. First world problems I guess though;)
I own a Tesla for 3 years. The maintenance per year is ZERO (no oil/transmission/Spark plug change, no need to replace brake pads, etc.), Your maintenance assumptions are totally nonsense.
Aren't the brakes the same as a gas car?
Oh yes, since I have an electric car that means I don't need brakes!
@@TheJackedJames I think he means on a yearly basis
@@TheJackedJames Electric Vehicles have "Regenerative Braking" which is just using the electric motor as a brake and putting the energy back in the battery. This significantly reduces the wear on the brake pads.
Come on people. I have a SUV and the brake pads lasted 100,000 miles and they were only 200 dollars
Play it out up to and including the complete battery bank replacement and see that cost or the resale value at that point.
Your channel is one of the best (if not THE best) for useful, reliable data on EVs. Congratulations and keep up the good work.
The fact of the matter is, however, that the 35K USD Tesla model 3 does not exist...a real cost comparison would have to take into account an actual Tesla model 3 available...somewhere north of 50K USD. I live in France. In 2019-2020 Daimler, Audi, Jaguar, VW, Porsche, Volvo, Hyundai, Kia will all introduce EV models to compete directly with the Tesla model 3. It would be great if you could do a cost comparison similar to what you have done here for your European audience (taking into account the much higher energy prices for gasoline, diesel fuel, and electricity in Europe). Also, is there a significant difference in cost of insurance for EV vs. ICE vehicles? If so, you should factor that in as well (if possible).
Totally agree. We have a video on the base model and also a model 3 vs. bolt which is more similar
My other grip is this cheaper model which start at $35k could be up to $70k with the enhance autopilot and w/o tax credit when it ends this year.
Great video. I just wanted to add for people not familiar with EVs:
For many families Lvl2 charger at home is not needed at all. 110 outlet is enough. If you are new to EVs, do not rush to install the charger in your garage. There is a good chance you will not need it.
On trips, charging is free in hotels (according to my EV experience). This substantially reduces the cost of "fuel" in real life.
If you really want to save even more, you can find free charging in most cites; use PlugShare app to find out.
Maintenance is overestimated greatly in my opinion. I believe it is virtually free for the first few years, and then it is a tiny fraction vs ICE.
+SnapHost [Ricky] Good points! So it takes like over twenty hours to charge your Tesla with a 110 outlet so for some a level two charger might be more needed. Also for people in California which is one of the biggest EV markets on Earth, we get billed based on time of use. So people here will program their Tesla to fast charge during super off peak times with energy is substantially cheaper.
And for maintenance, we used recommended figures because honestly for the civic it is also inflated. I’ve owned two civics my first I kept to 200k miles and it required so little maintenance. So to keep it apples and apples we just went with recommended
Thanks for the comment! Hope you’ll consider subscribing we have a lot of great content planned!
The average US car drives 13000 miles a year. Tesla says you get 3 miles of range per hour on a 110 outlet with a model S, but a lot of forum people say 5 miles. It should be even more for the M3. Still, at 3 miles per hour, you need 4333 hours of charging to cover the average distance. That's a little less than 12 hours a day. So for most people that's plenty. Especially considering that any long trips will be charged at superchargers. Most super off peak run all weekend. So that's 50 hours charging right there. 110 charging only on off peak rates should be viable for an average person. TXU free nights plan is free from 9pm to 6am every day, so that's 9 hours a day. If the M3 recovers 5 miles per hour, it only needs 7 hours a day to cover average use. Drive for free! (well free fuel)
You can't put a full charge into any Tesla in 20 hours using 110V.
Larry Smith I didn't say you could. I said you could put more than an average day's driving back into the battery. If you empty the battery every day, then sure, you need a faster way to charge. But then you're certainly not an average driver.
charging on a 110V outlet is impractical at best, I speak from experience on that. However the description of a level 2 charger installation is a misleading term. The charger is in the car so all you are providing is a power source. We charge from a 30A dryer plug with no problem daily.
I need a all electric MPV in uk please update
2021.
Honda Civic - $22,000
Tesla Model 3 - $37,990
Does not include the $1,200 delivery charge.
Very interesting. I love the idea of the Model 3. I wish the UK would manufacture an all electric car. or any car at all for that matter.
Nissan leaf made in Sunderland.
Indeed, but its still a Japanese car though.
True but a large proportion of the value of the car is the assembly cost.
Fair point!!
Doesn't make it British though. I'd still consider one however.
$1500 for charger installation?? We spent $200, to have the 240 outlet wired. My wife has a 126 mile (round trip) commute. Never had an issue with home charging.
[CHRIS] You can certainly go that route, and just plug the lower numbers into the FREE calculator we provided.
Daniel Bergeron is maintenance really as expensive as stated in the video?
No, it is not. I have spent only about $700 so far in almost three years, only because I had one service done. Many people don't even do that.
Great Idea = Keep the Wife Close to Home, with Totally Range anxiety, she won't stray far away and you have a 89% chance of her returning.
You don't need to install a high amp home charger. I use 120v home charging, and overnight charges to cover normal daily driving. For cross-country, superchargers are easily available.
Please tell me where I can buy the BMW 330i (would have been 328i 5 years ago) for $16,613.
Look on Craigslist. BMW are notorious for bad resale value due to high maintenance cost once they’re older. Also people with money to buy luxury German sedans typically don’t want used. I’d say the biggest reasons why theirs resale value is so bad
I would love to see the same comparison made with Honda Clarity Plugin Hybrid
The wall charger and annual maintenance is optional for any Tesla.
+Jacky Cheung [Ricky] it’ll take more than 24 hours to charge via a conventional outlet, so not sure I agree that it’s “optional” but yes technically ;) and maintenance for all cars is optional. I have owned two civics and they cost SO little to maintain. But to compare apples to apples we provided recommended maintenance
How long does it take to have enough charge depends on how far the owner need to travel. It is rare for the owner to travel a few hundred miles everyday and thus many EV owners are OK with the mobile EVSE. Also, with the proper adaptor, the mobile EVSE can use 200V 40A as long as it has the right outlet (sorry, I am not living in US and thus not remember how it was called). To install the outlet, it does not need $1500.
+Jacky Cheung [CHRIS] Totally agree, which makes the Tesla have even lower potential TCO!
That’s true for a full charge from zero but most people drive less then Thirty miles a day you would plug it in each night so wall chargers an unnecessary upgrade for most drivers and then there’s the super charger network to cover you for quick charge ups as needed
It would be nice if you included the cost of insurance in your comparisons. I've heard insurance for the Aluminum body Tesla is abnormally high.
Call and ask your agent we did and the quote was super reasonable
rust is more expensive.
How do things change if you are an apartment dweller with no access to a garage for charging?
What about the cost of battery replacement after about 10 years?
I’ll skip the compliments because it’s obvious this video is awesome on every level.
Some questions for you two and the other viewers:
Wouldn’t the cost of Tesla be even less?
Don’t they have the best warranty to cover any repairs? And what is there to break in the Tesla?
+/ itsnotak / [CHRIS] The Maintenance costs of the Tesla Model 3 are unknown, but much of the maintenance that Tesla recommends is pretty unnecessary IMO.
And I suppose there are brains, sensors, motors, that could fail. I would be most concerned about batteries, and I think those have an 8 year warranty, so that satisfies my biggest fears.
Really curious to see how resale value fares in 2019 thru 2023.
But those numbers have to be wrong, you even speak about the costs being mostly key fob batteries (the model 3 doesn't have a key fob), and the wiper blades... 475 bucks for what?
Brakes, lubing all mechanical parts, checking worn out suspension and transmission parts.
Jonas Wegelius
It got regenerative breaking, no transmissions and more. Regarding sensors, both civic and BMW got those too. I really dont understand where the maintenance cost come from. Battery is under warranty
All cars have transmission. The meaning of transmission is to transfer power from the engine to the wheels. Tesla does not have gears in their transmission or a clutch. But with high-torque drivetrain comes high wear on transmission parts. Regarding brakes, yes I know, doesn't mean that the brakes won't eventually wear though, does it? Another thing I think was missing was insurance cost, right? That will be a lot higher on Tesla
I like this, thought it might be Tesla bashing but seems fair. In Europe with incentives and the price of fuel up to 10 times higher the Tesla rules this game.
I put 525 thousand kilometers on my 1993 civic and had negligible repairs needed.Only maintenance. And I still sold it for 1000 in 2013. It gave almost perfect reliability for 20 years. I got 45 miles per canadian gallon highway. This turned out to be the most extreme economical vehicle ever
If comparing a base model Civic to a base model Tesla M3 the equation might calculate differently. I think it would be a fairer comparison to look at the numbers with both vehicles fully loaded with options. I cannot think of any ICE powered car that needs refueling at 220 miles. Tesla's are known for high cost collision repairs. That can translate into high insurance rates for physical damage coverage. What about after the warranty expires? The Civic will still be able to get dealer and aftermarket parts and service long after the warranty is over. Other than eBay, where can you buy parts for Tesla's? Don't get me wrong, I like Tesla's an EV's but to think a niche vehicle will have a lower cost of ownership than an economy version of a popular mainstream vehicle just doesn't add up to me. If you want a Tesla then get one but I'm not convinced it's cheaper to own.
Great point and we’re not exactly saying that. Just that they’ve come a long way
I think ultimately we will drop mpg or mpg e as a metric entirely. You could rate all vehicles in kWh or kWh e and then the benefits of EV's would be even more readily apparent. That is because liquid fuels are heavily subsidized (in the USA) and the kWh content is cheaper per kWh and IC Vehicles lose up to 80% of this energy as heat.
great point, yeah I think as EVs get more ubiquitous, the measure of their efficiency will improve.
As an S owner, you forgot a few things, the Tesla needs brakes more frequently. There is no downshifting and the Tesla uses brakes for battery charging. I needed brake replacing at 27,000 miles while on my old Mercedes I never replaced the brakes and traded the car in with almost 70,000 miles. Service prices you have listed also does not include wheel alignment prices, Tesla charges $180 for tire rotation and wheel alignment on top of its annul service fee. That’s included in my benzs scheduled service fee. My tires on the Tesla lasted about 30,000 miles verse 45,000 on the Benz. Again they claim it’s part of regenerative braking system. The S has free super charging when you can find an available one and don’t by accident stay there longer than the allowed time, if you stay to fully charge your car, I received a bill from Tesla. Charging stations at the local mall and Whole Foods are very expensive, can be more than gas at times. They not only charge you for your charge but for your time plugged in as well. So remember to move your car or at least unplug it if you’re going to be there for any amount of time. The first 50k on my Tesla has cost me more to own than the Benz it replaced, the S had worse trade in value in the p90d than the s550 it replaced and required more maintenance costs and spent much more time in the shop for warranty issues. Fuel costs were much less on the S until you add in the cost of adding a home charger with any speed, it requires similar power as to adding an outdoor pool heater and may require you to upgrade your electric panel or add a second one like I needed to do. Plus the actual cost of Tesla’s higher speed charger, the cost of the electrician. Add that into the 50,000 mile cost and the Mercedes becomes much cheaper in fuel costs. The $130k Tesla traded in with 54k miles for about 50k the $107k Mercedes traded in with 69k miles for $56k. The Tesla dealer would not buy back my S because the dealer was currently over stocked with used S models and told me to go to car max. My replacement car dealer had no interest in trading in the Tesla since they are currently hard to resell on their lot and have no idea how to service or inspect them. They also stated they have too varying of prices at auction so they would not take in trade and also recommended car max. So for myself Tesla was new and very cool car but a bust until these kinks are better resolved. The car being cleaner because it creates less waste while consuming fuel or energy is one thing but replacing brakes 3 times to once on another vehicle is waste and replacing tires 1.5 times extra is waste. In cold weather by me the charge gets much less miles and loses charge parked outside in the cold even off. Forget parking it at an airport in the winter, even on a 3 day business trip I came back to a dead car. The car can not be towed, can’t be shifted into neutral without a charge, hood can’t be opened without a charge. A Tesla specialist has to come and remove part of the front bumper to give the car enough charge to get it into neutral and tow the car. The awd system is not great in bad weather it’s far from a Benz. The Tesla trunk constantly leaked water into it. The sunroof constantly leaked water. Plastic parts like cup holders broke, Tesla constantly replaced for free but on a car of this price point it’s ridiculous to even have these problems. Tesla added a heat plate under the car for a mandatory recall and computer update which caused me to get 14 less miles out of a full charge. At this point I feel like Tesla owners are beta testers for Tesla and they get to pay a premium to be the product tester instead of Tesla paying to test its products first. Also I bought my car with autopilot and didn’t actual receive the computer update for that paid for option until 7 months later. Only car manufacturer I know that charges for features that it doesn’t have functioning yet. You forgot to mention that 3 at 35k is base model and not well equipped like the bmw but similarly equipped with awd the 3 comes in at close to or over 60k. The 3 base is much closer to a civic than bmw 3 series, but you can equip the 3 like a bmw the options just run the car price up quickly, while the awd well equipped 3 series is still mid 40’s. The federal rebate on Tesla’s, based off sales is supposed to end around February or March when they hit their max number of rebates. So hopefully people on the waiting list were not counting on that.
[CHRIS] Thanks for the personal experience with your Model S, and the great points. It doesn't sound like the Model S worked out very well for you, primarily due to brakes, alignment, and tires, something we were not aware of. As far as trading in or selling, I guess we will need to wait to see if the Model 3 at around 1/4 or 1/3 the cost of the Model S, will see the same sort of resale issues. And the cold weather is definitely something others have pointed out and it would be interesting to see how much the battery capacity drops at various temps. As for quality control, I have heard a lot of fit and finish complaints, I wonder if this will extend to the Model 3.
I am personally looking at leasing something like a Chevy Bolt, simply because then I don't need to worry about most of the issues you encountered. Maybe one day Tesla will lease Model 3s too.
I also own a Model S -- The Brakes are NOT used for regeneration. If you are having to put your foot on the brake pedal often enough to need a brake job, you are not getting much regen. Your brakes should last a "lifetime" if you set regen to High and drive mostly with the gas pedal (as intended.) Your tire wear probably mirrors your excess braking because of the way you drive. If you charge at home at night, you will probably get a better electricity rate. Here in SoCal, I charge for .16/kWh (vice .20 Supercharger rate). Given the crowding at Superchargers, I'm happy that they charge you for taking up space. You can charge at home thru a standard 220V outlet and still get a full charge in the off-peak hours overnight. No need to add a new panel or home charger. Tesla dealers don't buy back ANY Teslas, unless it is a trade-in on another Tesla. That all said, the Model 3 (much less your SP90D) outperforms almost everything on the road.
Actual words of wisdom in a comment section about anything Tesla or Elon Musk.
Bravo sir, prepare for incoming fanboi shills 😂
Scott just so you know, I was told my brakes wear is normal if you use autopilot for any amount of time. The pad size used are made for regen to kick in first while coasting before you brake but if you use autopilot the car uses gas and brake mostly. For safety purposes the car does not coast as much and tries to keep exact spacing which requires more speeding up and braking than most people driving on their own which would allow different gaps between the car in front. Tires wear faster when regen is causing more resistance, also wear more on dual motor versions I was told by my Tesla center. Tesla has printed rates for charging at their stations, by me it’s 0.22 per for A rate or first 30, than B rate of 0.37 kicks in for the next 60 kw. But on my S the A charging or 30 is free, there are very few of these chargers on the east coast. But there are private chargers at malls and Whole Foods, etc that charge .40-.50 per, making it a costly charge of $34-45. So I did mostly use a home charger and a faster charger for 90kw is required unless you can plug in for 14 hours with my standard wall outlet. The S is a quick car but not a well built car, lots of issues, my trunk always leaks. The sunroof leaks, plastic cup holder broke, glove box rattled. The list can go on, not sure if Tesla has gotten better since 2015 but based on the X I’m not sure I’d bet on it with the new 3 yet.
Peter Choma 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼