After 10 years doing this work I still break things. This is normal and will happen from time to time. R&D work is to a large degree selecting what works, usually from lots of failures. Sharing failures or errors is a good way to learn, so we know what not to do or what to avoid.
LOL Any easy mistake to make. The profile depth was set correctly to 18mm deep however the reference plane had changed from the top of the stock to the top of the part resulting in +4mm being added to the total depth. The error is one of picking the correct surface at the time of programming where the stock model is opaque thus allowing mouse pointer selection of underlying surfaces. It isn't the first time and certainly won't be the last time. I suppose I'll use the removable jaws for a future project that requires shaped griping of something and then replace these damaged examples, or maybe I can turn them upside down or something lol. The situation makes me think of stories I have come across where people lose their jobs as a result of slamming spindles in to parts or other expensive machining errors. When you think about this properly one should actually hold on to such people since they are less likely to make such mistakes in the future.
@@Windows350 Thanks for the comment. It is true that datum selection can be arbitrary such as the vice jaws or bottom of the part however anything below the top of the part/stock can be problematic for CAM software since auto settings with respect to work planes, clearance planes and rapid planes are all generally set positive to Z zero. When we machine directly in the Z positive the auto settings do not always factor this in, for example post processor scripts may be set up for the generally accepted convention of Z negative machining. Having said this, I have on many occasions used the bottom of the part and the vice jaws as a datum without issue. It is better however to go with the convention so as to minimise the potential for error. With respect to error, the error in this particular case was selecting the wrong face in the CAM model to establish an incremental Z depth. Normally one may see the error before it actually happens by way of sighting the endmill however the process was masked somewhat whilst capturing the video. To be absolutely safe on first time or one off parts, as one should, you could walk the machine through the process step by step so as to confirm all is good. Hope this is of some help.
@@CATANOVA I actually ment to touch off z just as normal but measure your jaws from that with the probe. you know how deep you can go when running the program with that...
@@Windows350 Hi. I actually measured with a Vernier in the machine from the top of the stock to the vice jaws and then subtracted 1mm so as to obtain a constant value not to exceed when applying the data in to a manual field in the CAM software. The problem however was mistakenly selecting a starting plane or face which was lower than the stock top resulting in incrementally shifting things down by a couple of millimetres. In normal machining when you got your eye on the ball you would tend to see such an error before it happens by way of observing where the endmill goes as it approaches the part whilst covering off the feed hold button. To make first time parts error free for the first time whilst trying to capture video of that process is a little difficult. It is better to run the part at least one time, refine the G-code and then video something that is error free. Another option I had would have been to skip or hide the error whilst video editing however I saw some benefit in demonstrating to its fullest (could have stop the second jaw being machined if I wanted) in terms of sht happens. I think what I'm pointing to is that vice jaws, chuck jaws, clamps and so on can be viewed as something of a consumable although one should of course try to preserve them as much as possible. On another job I did last year I purposefully machined away a tailstock live center simply because the economics and job timescales allowed for such action.
концовка просто порвала меня на части... весь ролик сидел и думал что пес должен реально гордиться таким хозяином! и тут - на тебе! автору большой респект - у меня как раз геморройный проект на почти таком же фрезере - чужая неудача прямо как отдушина))
As strange as it may sound, the failure of others serves to empower the self. The mistake was not deliberate and is probably quite common in the CNC world with first time jobs. In my experience most people hide the errors instead of sharing them, where there is benefit to be had in sharing.
lol man you always have some very interesting projects. Very nice mould work. I had a few ideas for a mould but never messed with it just yet. Fiber laser should be delivered in the next several days so pretty excited about that.
The truth of the machine comes out in mould work, even more so as the ball endmill diameter reduces. What tends to improve the finish quality is the pitch of the machine ball screw where I had always imagined super speed machines would have a large screw pitch due to the limitations of servo motor speed where the trade off is less accuracy on the repeatability side which in turn would be visible on such super fine finishes. My workshop stinks of cow crackling following this little escapade lol. Just thinking thinking of all the different stuff one could put under that laser where perhaps you could make your wife an omelette with a pretty pattern on the top lol. You'll have to do a quick YT vid of it in action once you get comfortable with it 👍
@@CATANOVA lol as soon as you took the two halves apart and I saw it boiling I said to myself “that’s got to smell rancid” rofl. Ya I’ll post some videos of the laser. Been watching quite a few primer videos on ezcad2 and lightburn.
@@tdg911 I was thinking of a Shepherd I had when I was a kid. It would round the corners of house bricks because it didn't have a decent bone that often. The problem with long lasting pet treats when it comes to large breeds is that stuff doesn't last 60 seconds. The only thing that comes close is rawhide, probably because it doesn't taste very nice (probably tastes like it smells lol). When I looked at the laser products I did notice they had one with a detachable head where my first thought would be to make a bracket assembly so as to install it in to the milling machine. Should I get one in the future, this is probably the direction I would go in due to working with limited space back here.
Not the first time and certainly not the last. Good thing they can be replaced. The excess wear to the tip of the tool dragging it through the steel jaws probably cost more.
Drill the air hole bigger, now use the mold to make a pet safe plastic injection mold. make a huge bone and another video on how you made the plastic bone.
Those plastic injection moulds can get really complex with the cooling and ejection for repetition lol. I have moved to version 2 already which should be ready to test tomorrow. The original idea seemed like a good one at the time lol.
@@CATANOVA Also you are dehydrating the bone not cooking them, you will have to leave the bone in the oven at low heat for at least a day in order for it to slowly pull the water from the hide. Other wise you are just making another meat bomb.
@@cbs1556 The idea was to drive off the water to solidify the mixture, demould and the nuke it in the microwave to make it rock hard. I think pushing the initial temperature didn't help speed things up but rather caused the rawhide to breakdown. The smell of the stuff was just plain awful where I immediately abandoned any further attempts with the stuff lol. I think there is a reason dogs typically do not favour these chews. Having a clean and tasty bone/chew that can last several hours for larger dog breads may be worth something. Right now the only thing that lasts is deer antler but that stuff is way too hard and doesn't give much reward for all the gnawing that takes place.
Nice mold! What program did you use for CAM? If you added noched to the sides of the model at the parting line, you can use a small prybay or small flat screw driver to seperate the mold. Also you could try soaking dry doog food in water until its moist, then pack the mold and freez it.
Hi I used Solidcam in this instance to do the roughing and finishing of the part. When I initially thought of baking a bone I imagined that a certain amount of shrinkage would likely take place and that the mould would open easily. Some extra features as you describe would have been useful. I am going to use the mould to produce the odd frozen treat from now on as I think this baking stuff is probably more hassle and expense in electricity that what it is worth. I have not long produced a part 2 to this video demonstrating the frozen food idea which is current uploading to YT. Thanks for your comments.
Hi, I used Solidcam for that particular part. Mastercam is also supposed to be as good when it comes to roughing. I also use Vectric Aspire a lot when it comes to raster based tool paths when working with large STL models.
@@metahimik It is better to purchase CAD and CAM software so you own it rather than subscription. Powermill roughing strategy looks old and out dated and will wear out endmills prematurely. Roughing needs to work like this ua-cam.com/video/P5187bwmUQ0/v-deo.html
I dont even understand what you thought was going to happen....wtf was the end result even supposed to be!? I'm so confused. Machining: good (except hitting the jaws).....Dog bone making: horrible. Lol 🤣😉🍻
I'm running a Hurco VM5i from a home workshop. It has 19 meters per minute rapid on the axis with a cut speed of up to 15.2 meters. It has a 457mm by 356mm table and 457, 356, 356 XYZ travels. The spindle is a BT40 8K RPM (7.5KW peak power 1 minute rate) with a 16 pot tool changer. When I purchased the machine I added a Renishaw OMP400 part probing kit and a Kitagawa MR120 4th axis unit. Hurco machines are top notch kit and are fully powder coated so tough as boots. Their price point on some of the kit is better than Haas plus they do not skimp on the build quality where things like servos and drives are all Yaskawa. I would have liked a larger example but the width down the side of the house to the back garden shed/workshop was limited and hence opting for the smallest Hurco offering with the VM5i. To run the machine because my home does not have 3 phase power I built a 12KW Victron power supply which makes 3 phase. The Victron system also has a small 24V 600 Ah battery bank which allows things to run for several hours if the grid supply is cut or lost, a bit like having a 3 phase UPS for the machine. I also have a small petrol generator to back feed this system where in essence I could run things by the gallon. Eventually solar panels will be added to finish things off. I use a combination of Solidcam and Vectric Aspire to produce and run G-code rather than using conversational which is built in to the Hurco control if one needs it. Thanks for your kind comment on the mould.
@CATANOVA Wow! I really appreciate the detailed response about your machine and setup! It sounds like you are quite happy with the machine, which is what I have mostly heard about Hurco. It's definitely a machine I would consider over a Haas especially after using a Haas at work.
@@22lambo In my previous job I ran a Haas VF9 and an ST40L for about 10 years. I also used a Hurco VMX42 for several years where fundamentally the differences are not that great between all of the kit although I do like the fact that Hurco powder coats everything which keeps things looking good for many years. When it comes to home/hobby machining one can with a little bit more effort install a much more capable VMC rather than opting for the lower budget light weight alternatives. Prior to installing the Hurco I had a Bridgeport kneemill in the shed/workshop where I imagined that was the best I could do. I can remember looking at a Haas CM mill back in those days however the price put them way out of reach.
It was a lot of time used up plus the clean up afterwards lol. Version 2 'bone for the dog' is in the pipeline using the same mould. We shall succeed 😁
Мужик, ты молодец) Смотрю видео и улыбаюсь) Я тоже люблю экспериментировать и ваши неудачи знакомы))) Все ради братьев наших меньших)
After 10 years doing this work I still break things. This is normal and will happen from time to time.
R&D work is to a large degree selecting what works, usually from lots of failures.
Sharing failures or errors is a good way to learn, so we know what not to do or what to avoid.
We're just not going to talk about you milling through the vice jaws huh?
LOL
Any easy mistake to make. The profile depth was set correctly to 18mm deep however the reference plane had changed from the top of the stock to the top of the part resulting in +4mm being added to the total depth. The error is one of picking the correct surface at the time of programming where the stock model is opaque thus allowing mouse pointer selection of underlying surfaces.
It isn't the first time and certainly won't be the last time.
I suppose I'll use the removable jaws for a future project that requires shaped griping of something and then replace these damaged examples, or maybe I can turn them upside down or something lol.
The situation makes me think of stories I have come across where people lose their jobs as a result of slamming spindles in to parts or other expensive machining errors. When you think about this properly one should actually hold on to such people since they are less likely to make such mistakes in the future.
@@CATANOVAjust touch off your jaws and watch your depth, shouldn't be a problem...
@@Windows350 Thanks for the comment.
It is true that datum selection can be arbitrary such as the vice jaws or bottom of the part however anything below the top of the part/stock can be problematic for CAM software since auto settings with respect to work planes, clearance planes and rapid planes are all generally set positive to Z zero. When we machine directly in the Z positive the auto settings do not always factor this in, for example post processor scripts may be set up for the generally accepted convention of Z negative machining.
Having said this, I have on many occasions used the bottom of the part and the vice jaws as a datum without issue. It is better however to go with the convention so as to minimise the potential for error.
With respect to error, the error in this particular case was selecting the wrong face in the CAM model to establish an incremental Z depth. Normally one may see the error before it actually happens by way of sighting the endmill however the process was masked somewhat whilst capturing the video. To be absolutely safe on first time or one off parts, as one should, you could walk the machine through the process step by step so as to confirm all is good.
Hope this is of some help.
@@CATANOVA I actually ment to touch off z just as normal but measure your jaws from that with the probe. you know how deep you can go when running the program with that...
@@Windows350 Hi. I actually measured with a Vernier in the machine from the top of the stock to the vice jaws and then subtracted 1mm so as to obtain a constant value not to exceed when applying the data in to a manual field in the CAM software. The problem however was mistakenly selecting a starting plane or face which was lower than the stock top resulting in incrementally shifting things down by a couple of millimetres.
In normal machining when you got your eye on the ball you would tend to see such an error before it happens by way of observing where the endmill goes as it approaches the part whilst covering off the feed hold button.
To make first time parts error free for the first time whilst trying to capture video of that process is a little difficult. It is better to run the part at least one time, refine the G-code and then video something that is error free.
Another option I had would have been to skip or hide the error whilst video editing however I saw some benefit in demonstrating to its fullest (could have stop the second jaw being machined if I wanted) in terms of sht happens.
I think what I'm pointing to is that vice jaws, chuck jaws, clamps and so on can be viewed as something of a consumable although one should of course try to preserve them as much as possible.
On another job I did last year I purposefully machined away a tailstock live center simply because the economics and job timescales allowed for such action.
My guy dint even stop the program after that vice mill 😂
I know. The jaws are a couple of millimetres lower now. Consumables lol.
концовка просто порвала меня на части... весь ролик сидел и думал что пес должен реально гордиться таким хозяином! и тут - на тебе! автору большой респект - у меня как раз геморройный проект на почти таком же фрезере - чужая неудача прямо как отдушина))
As strange as it may sound, the failure of others serves to empower the self.
The mistake was not deliberate and is probably quite common in the CNC world with first time jobs. In my experience most people hide the errors instead of sharing them, where there is benefit to be had in sharing.
lol man you always have some very interesting projects. Very nice mould work. I had a few ideas for a mould but never messed with it just yet. Fiber laser should be delivered in the next several days so pretty excited about that.
The truth of the machine comes out in mould work, even more so as the ball endmill diameter reduces.
What tends to improve the finish quality is the pitch of the machine ball screw where I had always imagined super speed machines would have a large screw pitch due to the limitations of servo motor speed where the trade off is less accuracy on the repeatability side which in turn would be visible on such super fine finishes.
My workshop stinks of cow crackling following this little escapade lol.
Just thinking thinking of all the different stuff one could put under that laser where perhaps you could make your wife an omelette with a pretty pattern on the top lol.
You'll have to do a quick YT vid of it in action once you get comfortable with it 👍
@@CATANOVA lol as soon as you took the two halves apart and I saw it boiling I said to myself “that’s got to smell rancid” rofl. Ya I’ll post some videos of the laser. Been watching quite a few primer videos on ezcad2 and lightburn.
@@tdg911 I was thinking of a Shepherd I had when I was a kid. It would round the corners of house bricks because it didn't have a decent bone that often. The problem with long lasting pet treats when it comes to large breeds is that stuff doesn't last 60 seconds. The only thing that comes close is rawhide, probably because it doesn't taste very nice (probably tastes like it smells lol).
When I looked at the laser products I did notice they had one with a detachable head where my first thought would be to make a bracket assembly so as to install it in to the milling machine. Should I get one in the future, this is probably the direction I would go in due to working with limited space back here.
ua-cam.com/video/kAAjouWagY0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/users/shortstRxj11TlweQ
ua-cam.com/users/shortssM61z2kQNUY
ua-cam.com/video/4pUCoc11GVo/v-deo.html
oh no you machined the vice :)
Not the first time and certainly not the last.
Good thing they can be replaced.
The excess wear to the tip of the tool dragging it through the steel jaws probably cost more.
Drill the air hole bigger, now use the mold to make a pet safe plastic injection mold. make a huge bone and another video on how you made the plastic bone.
Those plastic injection moulds can get really complex with the cooling and ejection for repetition lol. I have moved to version 2 already which should be ready to test tomorrow.
The original idea seemed like a good one at the time lol.
@@CATANOVA Also you are dehydrating the bone not cooking them, you will have to leave the bone in the oven at low heat for at least a day in order for it to slowly pull the water from the hide. Other wise you are just making another meat bomb.
@@cbs1556 The idea was to drive off the water to solidify the mixture, demould and the nuke it in the microwave to make it rock hard. I think pushing the initial temperature didn't help speed things up but rather caused the rawhide to breakdown.
The smell of the stuff was just plain awful where I immediately abandoned any further attempts with the stuff lol. I think there is a reason dogs typically do not favour these chews.
Having a clean and tasty bone/chew that can last several hours for larger dog breads may be worth something. Right now the only thing that lasts is deer antler but that stuff is way too hard and doesn't give much reward for all the gnawing that takes place.
Nice mold! What program did you use for CAM? If you added noched to the sides of the model at the parting line, you can use a small prybay or small flat screw driver to seperate the mold. Also you could try soaking dry doog food in water until its moist, then pack the mold and freez it.
Hi
I used Solidcam in this instance to do the roughing and finishing of the part.
When I initially thought of baking a bone I imagined that a certain amount of shrinkage would likely take place and that the mould would open easily. Some extra features as you describe would have been useful.
I am going to use the mould to produce the odd frozen treat from now on as I think this baking stuff is probably more hassle and expense in electricity that what it is worth.
I have not long produced a part 2 to this video demonstrating the frozen food idea which is current uploading to YT.
Thanks for your comments.
Which cam software you have used for fast machining??
Hi, I used Solidcam for that particular part.
Mastercam is also supposed to be as good when it comes to roughing.
I also use Vectric Aspire a lot when it comes to raster based tool paths when working with large STL models.
@@CATANOVA what do you think about Powermill?)
@@metahimik It is better to purchase CAD and CAM software so you own it rather than subscription.
Powermill roughing strategy looks old and out dated and will wear out endmills prematurely. Roughing needs to work like this ua-cam.com/video/P5187bwmUQ0/v-deo.html
LOL Noice
👍
I dont even understand what you thought was going to happen....wtf was the end result even supposed to be!? I'm so confused. Machining: good (except hitting the jaws).....Dog bone making: horrible. Lol 🤣😉🍻
What a beautiful mold! What machine are you using and what controller does it have?
I'm running a Hurco VM5i from a home workshop. It has 19 meters per minute rapid on the axis with a cut speed of up to 15.2 meters. It has a 457mm by 356mm table and 457, 356, 356 XYZ travels. The spindle is a BT40 8K RPM (7.5KW peak power 1 minute rate) with a 16 pot tool changer. When I purchased the machine I added a Renishaw OMP400 part probing kit and a Kitagawa MR120 4th axis unit. Hurco machines are top notch kit and are fully powder coated so tough as boots. Their price point on some of the kit is better than Haas plus they do not skimp on the build quality where things like servos and drives are all Yaskawa. I would have liked a larger example but the width down the side of the house to the back garden shed/workshop was limited and hence opting for the smallest Hurco offering with the VM5i.
To run the machine because my home does not have 3 phase power I built a 12KW Victron power supply which makes 3 phase. The Victron system also has a small 24V 600 Ah battery bank which allows things to run for several hours if the grid supply is cut or lost, a bit like having a 3 phase UPS for the machine. I also have a small petrol generator to back feed this system where in essence I could run things by the gallon. Eventually solar panels will be added to finish things off.
I use a combination of Solidcam and Vectric Aspire to produce and run G-code rather than using conversational which is built in to the Hurco control if one needs it.
Thanks for your kind comment on the mould.
@CATANOVA Wow! I really appreciate the detailed response about your machine and setup! It sounds like you are quite happy with the machine, which is what I have mostly heard about Hurco. It's definitely a machine I would consider over a Haas especially after using a Haas at work.
@@22lambo In my previous job I ran a Haas VF9 and an ST40L for about 10 years. I also used a Hurco VMX42 for several years where fundamentally the differences are not that great between all of the kit although I do like the fact that Hurco powder coats everything which keeps things looking good for many years.
When it comes to home/hobby machining one can with a little bit more effort install a much more capable VMC rather than opting for the lower budget light weight alternatives.
Prior to installing the Hurco I had a Bridgeport kneemill in the shed/workshop where I imagined that was the best I could do. I can remember looking at a Haas CM mill back in those days however the price put them way out of reach.
the laugh at the end when you realize how much of your time you just wasted... hehe
It was a lot of time used up plus the clean up afterwards lol.
Version 2 'bone for the dog' is in the pipeline using the same mould. We shall succeed 😁
inferior efficiency
The cost of electricity these days.