PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING: Prime lenses: Yes, focus breathing can impact them. Light loss: According to our testing, focusing up-close causes light loss, regardless of whether you use extension tubes. We don't see any light loss in this scenario with extension tubes, presumably because you're not changing the focusing distance. For those who've seen Matthew's video where he calculates that the focal length of the Canon is greater than 200mm: I worked closely with Matthew and discovered he had an error in his formula; he measured distance from the sensor rather than the origin of the cone of the field of view. As a result, his math exaggerated the focal length the closer he focused. So; he accurately measured the focal length at infinity at 200mm because his fixed error (a few inches) was insignificant compared to the focusing distance. But up close, the error caused by those few inches becomes more significant. If he had continued to focus closer, the focal length he calculated would have approached infinity. The Canon 70-200 f/2.8 is 195-200mm at the long end, whether you're focusing up close or at infinity. But you don't have to take my word for it--just test it with extension tubes, as I describe in this video. If it actually gets longer at close range, then adding extension tubes will make the image *smaller*. BTW, I've never seen a lens that does "reverse focus breathing" thing at close range, and it would require a very odd design to do that. It seems like that concept only exists because of the error in Matthew's formula. Some people have seen Matt Granger's excellent review of the new Tamron 70-200 and misinterpreted his results. Matt did a great job of pointing out the severe focus breathing of the new Tamron. The fact that the new Tamron does provide for high magnification (filling the frame for a very tight headshot) is unrelated to focus breathing. Magnification determines how big your subject can be in the frame. Focus breathing relates to effective focal length (which in turn controls the compression of facial features and the background) as well as the working distance from your subject (which is critical for weddings and events, where you can't always control the distance).
Adding an extension tube will ALWAYS make the image appear larger. Its the same principle as pulling a magnifying glass away from the paper to magnify the image. Using an extension tube to test for focus breathing is just wrong.... you shoot a tight aperture at a scene 20 plus ft away and compare the image area at close and infinity focus. The tubes are doubling the focus breathing effect... the nikon is 165mm up close. This has all been pointed out to you multiple times and you continue to ignore it. your test is flawed.
So many people on Matt's review were commenting 'they fixed focus breathing for nikon users' it made me cry a bit. Well done for taking the time to patiently get this out to people. While he did cover it accurately, I do think he really glossed over the point and over emphasised that minimum focusing thing. Came off as a dirty puff-piece because of that tbh to nurture a newly formed relationship with tamron, especially as he can't claim ignorance of compression when he's done a video on the topic.
"a big thing a lot of people were concerned about was the maximum reproduction ratio" - Matt Granger... He really muddied the water with that because absolutely nobody was asking that question, everyone was asking about focus breathing and, as Matt said, it's just as bad as the Nikon.
Matt hasn't done a full of any sort of review, that video is just a quick look at that lens, so people will see it before it's released. he's on a tour so he was going to review the Tamron while on tour and after he gets back. he said a little about the focus breathing but he wasn't saying more until he had done the tour and what ever other things he has planned for a review. just to note as people shouldn't be taking that video as a review he says that a few times in the video.
I've been doing photography for 40 years and came across what I think was this phenomenon a few times in the film days, and had no way to explain it. Thanks - it makes sense!
I think it's high time lens manufacturers should be telling us how much a lens breathes. Thanks Tony fir the clarifications. I had high hopes for the new tamron,seem like dashed now.
Huge thanks for bringing light to this issue. This, along with a few other things, are features that camera and lens makers frustratingly “cheat” us on. Luckily big players like yourself advocate for the consumer. I hope more people catch on too.
Also, the 'video' version of focus breathing actually is used by a lot of macro photographers as a lot of macro lenses change the subject framing as you focus. You guys always put out great videos! Thank you!
Thank you for this video. I had a Tamron 70-200mm that got stolen. Now I bought a Canon 70-200mm & noticed the subjects are closer then with the Tamron. Now I know why. Thank you again.
i thought you guys were kinda neat when i discovered you a month or so ago. this video makes me respect you on a technical level that i rarely encounter. cheers!
Best explanation of this phenomena I've seen yet. Thanks Tony. My questions is if it's possible to minimize or get rid of it, why haven't other manufacturers been able to get ride of it.
By way of comparison, Fuji has announced new cinema zoom lenses for the the Sony E mount. Initial testing shows constant t-stop through the range, no focus breathing and the lenses are par-focal. I'd love still lenses with the same characteristics- but they're $6.5k
Thank you for the explanation. Really useful info about the why. I am sure it has been mentioned elsewhere but just in case. To simply test if your lens focus breathes, put your camera on a mount so it won't move, focus at infinity on an image. Look for something far left or right of the frame, turn the focus ring to the closest focal length and see if the object moves out of frame. If it moves, there is a potential issue. It doesn't empirically measure the difference but if you are in a shop you can instantly see if there is a problem....and to some extent how big a problem.
Great video! When focus stacking for product photography, we definitely change the focus in a given "scene". Option is a macro slider or a lens that exhibits less focus breathing.
Also... Great point on "you adjust to your gear". It's important to know this things to adjust and correct or simply understand the limitations of one's gear, but it's not a claim to go out and buy the most expensive gear.
Thanks Tony, you're my favourite oompaloompa! I remember asking you this on one of the live shows a while back so I really appreciate you expanding more fully on this!
This is the best explanation of focus breathing I've seen on UA-cam. Can you tell me what brand of extension tubes you use in the "Fix It" discussion? I have Nikon's PK-11, PK-12 and PK-13 extension tubes, but they're absolutely useless for the newer lenses having an internal aperture. I'm looking forward to more of your excellent videos!
I just can't decide, guys. I'm frustrated that this issue exists. My sights were firm on the Tamron G2, but now I'm considering a used Canon instead. It's a lot of money to give for a product you may regret for years to come. I may be overreacting, maybe it's not that big of a deal, but it certainly puts a pause in my decision. I wanted the lens for portraits primarily, but also because of its versatility for other things, since I can only get one lens this year. I guess I'm still leaning towards Tamron G2, hopefully it's good enough to where I will be able to work around it without issues.... If you are planning on it, I would still love to see you guys review the Tamron G2, since it may have a lot of other things going for it, like focusing distance and sharpness overall. Thank you for doing good work and putting this material out there. I really appreciate it!
Thank you for doing this video! Focus breathing is a very important lens attribute that film makers need to understand. lenses with strong focus breathing cause noticeable distortion when trying to rack focus and can be very unforgiving if your subject requires slight focus adjustments to keep in focus.
Tony thanks for the great info. I didn't quite get it the last time you talked about focus breathing but got it straight up with the examples you used. Nice one.
That is interesting. So focus breathing can be fixed by extension tubes and they help you with minimum distance for focus as well. Can we have some tests of those extension tubes? Those tubes have massive price differences from original canons at about $120 down to some cheap china plastic below $6 per tube which seem to break the first time you attach some heavy lense to them.
This video is a great explanation of focus breathing. Technical comments ahead: The focal length of a lens is literally defined as the distance between the lens and sensor when focusing at infinity. A camera maker is not cheating you when they advertise a 200mm lens with focus breathing problems as being a 200mm lens. Focus breathing can be treated as a weakness of the lens rather than as a lie. To focus on near objects (anything with an object distance less than ∞), we can reduce the focal length of the lens and maintain the same image distance (causing us to breath out as with most 70-200 zooms), increase the image distance (causing us to breath in, as with macro lenses) or balance the use of both techniques to minimize focus breathing (the ideal.)
No... it's exceptionally hard at close range, because you have to identify the location of the physical aperture of the lens (where the cone of the angle of view originates), and that can move around depending on where a lens is zoomed or focused. It's fairly easy at infinity, but most lenses are honest about their infinity focusing (within about ~5-10mm).
Hi Tony, I'm a bit late to the party but having just been very impressed with your explanation of focus breathing, I'm now subscribing to you. So thanks very much for that. I'm a Fuji user and as you know Fuji lenses have a good reputation for quality. Have you tested any Fujifilm lenses please?
Tony, you and Chelsea can come up with some the best info on photography! I didn't even know focus breathing was a problem. Now I have to know how to check for it and then fix it. Sort of like when we discovered the snail darter was an endangered species. I had never heard of them before. Now, we have to have a nature/biology scientist tell us ok before we can stick a shovel in the ground. Keep up the great work. ;)
Not necessarily a problem as he said, but just something to be aware of. I have used the Tamron 70-200 VC version 1 and love it. It does have focus breathing at 200mm, but it's no big deal to me. Some people will not care, but I guess some people would if you are specifically doing long range photography or something. Even then though it's not that big of a deal.
It’s not a problem there’s benefits for it to even canon have a whole pile of lenses that focus Breath usually means that the lens can focus closer which is a benefit in weddings most of the new lenses focus breath to some degree throwing away your lenses because they focus breeze is just stupidity I’m sorry for being so blunt
Focus breathing is not a problem you can just move in or zoom in more when they’re at the maximum distance they are all the same there’s also benefits for focus breathing like closer Focus A lot of canon lens also Focus breathe even the L-series and Nikon i’ve known this for years it’s not a new thing throwing away lenses that focus breath is like throwing your sharp lenses in the bin it makes no sense yes lens companies should provide that information but it only applies if you’re extremely small studio
Focus breathing isn’t a problem it happens on Canon lenses two its been like that for years Canon 100 to 400 has massive focus breathing but it’s not a problem Tony stop it One step forward one step back fixes the problem
I guess since I have always a Nikon shooter I never noticed. I guess you can't miss what you never had. Tony, the service you can do for audience is review the Tamron and give an assessment of how it compares against the competition. My 70-200mm is broken. It will cost about $1,100 to fix so I am trying to decide whether to buy the expensive new Nikon version or is the new Tamron a feasible option. With $40K in Nikon gear switching to Canon is not an option i will have to live with focus breathing.
However, video "breathing" can have an impact when focus stacking stills. That's where I've run into it: Same focal length + multiple focus planes = slightly different sizes. My old cheap-ish Sigma 17-70 shows it. Great video!
Tony, I love your videos and I really appreciate them. But honestly, I was lost almost from the beginning of this video, and I never caught up with what you were talking about here. But I would like to know more about this. I wish I could just sit down with you and have you explain this to me.
I had been wonder what this was. Thank you. Also in the realm of what has been seen cannot be unseen. When you are moving your hands up around your face, it casts a moving shadow in the bottom left corner. I spent this video watching that shadow while listening. lol.
would still love to see a review of the new tamron 70-200 because of its closest focus range. you can get closer if you wanted the subjet to be more in your frame. so yes if possible would still love to see a full video from you guys.
Thirded! I can't afford the Nikon 70-200 but thought the last gen Tamron was lacking in VC and perhaps durability, both of which seem to be addressed. So I'm pretty excited about the G2 and would love a T&C review - even if it mentions the focus breathing. I'd be using it on a D500 so want know how it works on a crop sensor too.
Tony please do a review of the new Tamron, because even if it suffer focus breathing it also have a close focus of only 0,95mt which probably compensates the focus breathing.
I think you need to review both the new Tamron and Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses and find out how they perform in terms of focus breathing at short distances. I've already got the latest Nikon 70-200/2.8e , and it's huge improvement in focus breathing comparing with the previous version. Minimum focusing distance has also been reduced to 1.1m. According to specs of the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 G2, its minimum focusing distance is 0.95m which is class leading. I know it doesn't make sense to have such short minimum focusing distance and a lower than expected magnification ratio at the same time. But Matt Granger's recent review really showed the lens has decent magnification on shooting close subjects. It's worthwhile to take a look.
Steven Lui the focus breathing seems to me the only down real down side of the new Tamron 70-200 G2 when compar d to the new Nikon 70-200 E and considering its $1500 less, I'm willing to live with the focus breathing. I still have the original and it's amazing.
Matt Granger did some sample images in a video and he indicated that the focus breathing problem wasn't as severe with the new Tamron 70-200. Can you site your source for the info about the Tamron?
ive seen some people saying that the new tamron is as good or even better than the nikon or canon, and here is this guy saying that he wont even talk about it ?
Alway enjoy your video's Tony, I have been looking at so many reviews on the 70-200 F2.8 range, from Nikon to Tamron and even Sigma, this helps a great deal although the Nikon is out of my price range new might be lucky and get a second hand one from work 😁😁
That is really unfortunate about the new Tamron 70-200. Was hoping the focus breathing would be minimal. And thank you for making this issue much more well known. What I find annoying are those people that will say the focus breathing is not an issue, just more closer. To all those people,....let me explain myself,....I don't care what you think about the focus breathing, if it is not an issue for you, wonderful, go on with your wonderful life. But for those of us that do have an issue with it your opinions are not relevant.
so I remember watching this 2 years ago and thinking, "wow I am certainly not gonna buy the tamron G2" and here I am now realizing that the focus breathing isnt that big of an issue 90% of the time. if I need a 200mm its because I need that extra reach. if I wanna shoot something closer, id probably get a macro lens anyways. Here I am in 2019 buying a tamron g2 because its dirt cheap and nobody cares about focus breathing haha.
Yeah it’s such a trivial quality to complain about unless you’re working with video. Most will get the 70-200 because they want reach. This ‘issue’ only means folks should test their gear and know how it works before using it in a working environment (like they continue to mention as their example).
Why dont you review the New Tamron 70-200 the focus breathing thing ? i was reading random comments and people wish that you do a review about it :) i also would love to see how the tamron will perform before buying one . thanks for this informative video :)
Great video. Only I thought "focus breathing" means that the focused lens goes out of focus when you zoom in or out. When shooting a video in autofocus mode and zooming in or out you then get the effect that the picture becomes shortly defocused and then focused again. This gives the "breathing" effect, hence the name. (Many lenses do that, esp. when designed for stills, not videos, but some don't.) Am I wrong?
Great explanation. I noticed just using live view that I could see it. With my cheap 75-300 canon f4-5.6 the front of the lens moves when focusing, so it doesn't breath: the image blurs but nothing moves/translates. With my sigma 17-50 f2.8 the objects at the side translate off-frame as they blur. I bet it'll be even more clean comparing the tamrom 70-200 vs the canon 70-200
Thanks for the review, especially for the "fix it" I will now get out my tubes and check out my Tamron 150-600 G2 (which is wonderful and way better than G1 "please test it") and the Sigma 150mm macro non OS!
Thanks for the great videos! did you guy ever got around to test if the Sony 70-200 f2.8 GM has focus breathing? if you did, can you please post the link? Thanks so much!
I appreciate you testing for focus breathing, and I wish other lens reviewers did as well (is it really that difficult?), as it is an important consideration for a zoom portrait lens. And there is no easy fix. I also use extension tubes on some of my lenses and the focus limitation that introduces is very limiting. Have you ever made a quantitative list of the various lenses and their breathing?
They aren't a benchmarking company, they are improving their software by accomodating all possible hardware along with their specific details. They test things that can be corrected in software so that they can sell their products as the best. Just so happens that their tests prove useful as a benchmarking metric. They can't correct focus breathing through software. They only way to do that is the photographer stepping back and cropping in post or using extension tubes.
Thanks for dedicating a video to this problem. Focus breathing can be a serious problem for some photographers and while I don't mind that much for the work i do, I can still understand how it is a deal-breaker for others. I never thought about using extension tubes but it also has disadvantages besides the focus range like the probable loss of weather sealing. A bit of a different question: You did a brilliant review on the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD and i was wondering if you could get your hands on the new Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD G2 to make a review. It seems like a extremely interesting lens for the price you pay.
Tony - Does this vary from lens to lens even from within the same make and model? In other words is it a matter of manufacturing tolerances? In the golf equipment industry you can buy a driver that is supposed to have 9* of loft, but given the manufacturing tolerances of +/- 1* it could actually be 8* or 10* which is pretty significant. Like driver loft, focal length is kind of important so I feel like they should at the very minimum say something like 50-200mm +/- 25
Internal focusing may change the the focal length if not at infinity. From the Sony manual: •Depending on the lens mechanism, the focal length may change with any change in shooting distance. The focal lengths given above assume the lens is focused at infinity.
Tony , nice breakdown , but by posting a photo of the new Tamron 70-200 you misled us a little bit . I thought you would review it and discuss whether or not Tamron had addressed the focus breathing issues .
Thank you for this. Frustrating re: the new Tamron. A 70-200mm w/ a true 200mm focal length up close for portraits seems to be a bit of a unicorn, particularly for Nikon bodies. Aside from Nikon's ridiculously priced 200mm f/2 prime is there another lens for Nikon w/ a true 200mm focal length?
Thanks for this information. You certainly stirred up a lot of photographers. There is a simple solution: Wrap the lens in a plastic bag for 15 minutes before use. It will smother. No more breathing of any sort :) Seriously, when using my original Canon 100mm macro on a focus rail for focus stacking, should I see much focus breathing? Is it better to focus from back to front or from front to back to minimize the FB effect? Your focus stacking video suggests going from closest to furthest.
PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING:
Prime lenses: Yes, focus breathing can impact them.
Light loss: According to our testing, focusing up-close causes light loss, regardless of whether you use extension tubes. We don't see any light loss in this scenario with extension tubes, presumably because you're not changing the focusing distance.
For those who've seen Matthew's video where he calculates that the focal length of the Canon is greater than 200mm: I worked closely with Matthew and discovered he had an error in his formula; he measured distance from the sensor rather than the origin of the cone of the field of view. As a result, his math exaggerated the focal length the closer he focused. So; he accurately measured the focal length at infinity at 200mm because his fixed error (a few inches) was insignificant compared to the focusing distance. But up close, the error caused by those few inches becomes more significant. If he had continued to focus closer, the focal length he calculated would have approached infinity.
The Canon 70-200 f/2.8 is 195-200mm at the long end, whether you're focusing up close or at infinity. But you don't have to take my word for it--just test it with extension tubes, as I describe in this video. If it actually gets longer at close range, then adding extension tubes will make the image *smaller*. BTW, I've never seen a lens that does "reverse focus breathing" thing at close range, and it would require a very odd design to do that. It seems like that concept only exists because of the error in Matthew's formula.
Some people have seen Matt Granger's excellent review of the new Tamron 70-200 and misinterpreted his results. Matt did a great job of pointing out the severe focus breathing of the new Tamron. The fact that the new Tamron does provide for high magnification (filling the frame for a very tight headshot) is unrelated to focus breathing.
Magnification determines how big your subject can be in the frame. Focus breathing relates to effective focal length (which in turn controls the compression of facial features and the background) as well as the working distance from your subject (which is critical for weddings and events, where you can't always control the distance).
Adding an extension tube will ALWAYS make the image appear larger. Its the same principle as pulling a magnifying glass away from the paper to magnify the image. Using an extension tube to test for focus breathing is just wrong.... you shoot a tight aperture at a scene 20 plus ft away and compare the image area at close and infinity focus. The tubes are doubling the focus breathing effect... the nikon is 165mm up close. This has all been pointed out to you multiple times and you continue to ignore it. your test is flawed.
So many people on Matt's review were commenting 'they fixed focus breathing for nikon users' it made me cry a bit. Well done for taking the time to patiently get this out to people.
While he did cover it accurately, I do think he really glossed over the point and over emphasised that minimum focusing thing. Came off as a dirty puff-piece because of that tbh to nurture a newly formed relationship with tamron, especially as he can't claim ignorance of compression when he's done a video on the topic.
"a big thing a lot of people were concerned about was the maximum reproduction ratio" - Matt Granger... He really muddied the water with that because absolutely nobody was asking that question, everyone was asking about focus breathing and, as Matt said, it's just as bad as the Nikon.
Matt hasn't done a full of any sort of review, that video is just a quick look at that lens, so people will see it before it's released.
he's on a tour so he was going to review the Tamron while on tour and after he gets back. he said a little about the focus breathing but he wasn't saying more until he had done the tour and what ever other things he has planned for a review.
just to note as people shouldn't be taking that video as a review he says that a few times in the video.
+bikefreek "Adding an extension tube will ALWAYS make the image appear larger."
I've been doing photography for 40 years and came across what I think was this phenomenon a few times in the film days, and had no way to explain it. Thanks - it makes sense!
Yeah thanks Tony!!! This is awesome!
I think it's high time lens manufacturers should be telling us how much a lens breathes.
Thanks Tony fir the clarifications.
I had high hopes for the new tamron,seem like dashed now.
Fro doesn't know photo! I learn more from your videos (?) than you can ever imagine. Thank you.
Huge thanks for bringing light to this issue. This, along with a few other things, are features that camera and lens makers frustratingly “cheat” us on.
Luckily big players like yourself advocate for the consumer. I hope more people catch on too.
Not always 100% a fan of your videos, but this is spot on and the best I have seen on this topic!
Also, the 'video' version of focus breathing actually is used by a lot of macro photographers as a lot of macro lenses change the subject framing as you focus.
You guys always put out great videos! Thank you!
Thanks for looking into this issue and for clarifying! Excellent video! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you for this video. I had a Tamron 70-200mm that got stolen. Now I bought a Canon 70-200mm & noticed the subjects are closer then with the Tamron. Now I know why. Thank you again.
i thought you guys were kinda neat when i discovered you a month or so ago. this video makes me respect you on a technical level that i rarely encounter. cheers!
also as a cinematographer i still enjoy this very much. its very valuable for us as well.
Best explanation of this phenomena I've seen yet. Thanks Tony. My questions is if it's possible to minimize or get rid of it, why haven't other manufacturers been able to get ride of it.
BRILLIANT ... YOU ARE GREAT MENTOR TONY....
Thanks .. yeah, Tony, must be tired :)
Tony is definitely not CHILL about focus breathing :D
I don’t blame him. It feels like false advertising
By way of comparison, Fuji has announced new cinema zoom lenses for the the Sony E mount. Initial testing shows constant t-stop through the range, no focus breathing and the lenses are par-focal. I'd love still lenses with the same characteristics- but they're $6.5k
best explanation ever! I've always used macro tubes for super close up work, but I've never thought about using them like that! thanks for the tip!
It's true I have both tamron and canon 70-200 lens
Thanks for the tip Tony
Thank you for the explanation. Really useful info about the why. I am sure it has been mentioned elsewhere but just in case. To simply test if your lens focus breathes, put your camera on a mount so it won't move, focus at infinity on an image. Look for something far left or right of the frame, turn the focus ring to the closest focal length and see if the object moves out of frame. If it moves, there is a potential issue. It doesn't empirically measure the difference but if you are in a shop you can instantly see if there is a problem....and to some extent how big a problem.
My head is focus breathing after that... great work Tony
Interesting technical class. Fun way to start my Saturday.
Thanks for sharing that tidbit of info.
Your doing a great job keeping them lens manufacturers on there tows!!
Great video!
When focus stacking for product photography, we definitely change the focus in a given "scene". Option is a macro slider or a lens that exhibits less focus breathing.
Once again, a truly informative and easy to understand factoid that helps us in the field. Thanks Tony.
Thank you. Please keep making videos
Thank you Tony..excellent information..
Great and very helpful video. Made me rethink the lens I was about to buy!
Love you guys...I have all of books and such.
Also... Great point on "you adjust to your gear". It's important to know this things to adjust and correct or simply understand the limitations of one's gear, but it's not a claim to go out and buy the most expensive gear.
Good explanation Tony .
Thanks Tony, you're my favourite oompaloompa! I remember asking you this on one of the live shows a while back so I really appreciate you expanding more fully on this!
Genius....I have a tamron 70-200 im going to try this on next weekend :) thanks Tony
Thanks you for this information. I'm always learning from you channel
That is such a brilliant idea (extension tubes)! Kudos, sir. Today I learned something new.
Not practical at all
mind blown! thanks for the video
great video thanks for keeping up the research on focus breathing
Excellent explanation, thank you Tony.. your videos are very important and beneficial
Thanks!
I was only thinking of it for video. Thanks Tony
Didn't know that. Thanks for the information. Good video.
Tony, thank you for the propeller head explanation of focus breathing. It was very in-depth and extremely helpful to me! Keep up the great work.
This is the best explanation of focus breathing I've seen on UA-cam. Can you tell me what brand of extension tubes you use in the "Fix It" discussion? I have Nikon's PK-11, PK-12 and PK-13 extension tubes, but they're absolutely useless for the newer lenses having an internal aperture. I'm looking forward to more of your excellent videos!
I just can't decide, guys. I'm frustrated that this issue exists. My sights were firm on the Tamron G2, but now I'm considering a used Canon instead. It's a lot of money to give for a product you may regret for years to come.
I may be overreacting, maybe it's not that big of a deal, but it certainly puts a pause in my decision. I wanted the lens for portraits primarily, but also because of its versatility for other things, since I can only get one lens this year.
I guess I'm still leaning towards Tamron G2, hopefully it's good enough to where I will be able to work around it without issues....
If you are planning on it, I would still love to see you guys review the Tamron G2, since it may have a lot of other things going for it, like focusing distance and sharpness overall.
Thank you for doing good work and putting this material out there. I really appreciate it!
Canon lenses focus breathe too, but they breathe at longer focus distances, while most other lenses breathe at close focus.
Thank you for doing this video!
Focus breathing is a very important lens attribute that film makers need to understand. lenses with strong focus breathing cause noticeable distortion when trying to rack focus and can be very unforgiving if your subject requires slight focus adjustments to keep in focus.
Tony thanks for the great info. I didn't quite get it the last time you talked about focus breathing but got it straight up with the examples you used. Nice one.
picked up a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II because I knew that was the best lens for the job. :D
Congrats! That lens is so much fun to work with!
Ohhh, now I see. I could not figure out what was going on! Thank you. (I really depend on you guys for explanations sometimes 🤯).
Thank you for that great explanation Tony!
That is interesting.
So focus breathing can be fixed by extension tubes and they help you with minimum distance for focus as well.
Can we have some tests of those extension tubes? Those tubes have massive price differences from original canons at about $120 down to some cheap china plastic below $6 per tube which seem to break the first time you attach some heavy lense to them.
I'd love a video of lenses that are best at not having these focus breathing issues
Great video, very insightful, thank you for all the enlightenment! it is very much appreciated
This video is a great explanation of focus breathing.
Technical comments ahead:
The focal length of a lens is literally defined as the distance between the lens and sensor when focusing at infinity. A camera maker is not cheating you when they advertise a 200mm lens with focus breathing problems as being a 200mm lens. Focus breathing can be treated as a weakness of the lens rather than as a lie.
To focus on near objects (anything with an object distance less than ∞), we can reduce the focal length of the lens and maintain the same image distance (causing us to breath out as with most 70-200 zooms), increase the image distance (causing us to breath in, as with macro lenses) or balance the use of both techniques to minimize focus breathing (the ideal.)
Great explanation. Do you have a video on how to measure and test the focal length of lenses?
No... it's exceptionally hard at close range, because you have to identify the location of the physical aperture of the lens (where the cone of the angle of view originates), and that can move around depending on where a lens is zoomed or focused.
It's fairly easy at infinity, but most lenses are honest about their infinity focusing (within about ~5-10mm).
now that was very, very helpful, I started to enjoy and learn a lot from your great reviews, so keep up the great job, well done Sir!!! :)
Nice job Tony!
Hi Tony, I'm a bit late to the party but having just been very impressed with your explanation of focus breathing, I'm now subscribing to you. So thanks very much for that. I'm a Fuji user and as you know Fuji lenses have a good reputation for quality. Have you tested any Fujifilm lenses please?
Great explanation!!!
Tony, you and Chelsea can come up with some the best info on photography! I didn't even know focus breathing was a problem. Now I have to know how to check for it and then fix it. Sort of like when we discovered the snail darter was an endangered species. I had never heard of them before. Now, we have to have a nature/biology scientist tell us ok before we can stick a shovel in the ground. Keep up the great work. ;)
Thanks!
Not necessarily a problem as he said, but just something to be aware of. I have used the Tamron 70-200 VC version 1 and love it. It does have focus breathing at 200mm, but it's no big deal to me. Some people will not care, but I guess some people would if you are specifically doing long range photography or something. Even then though it's not that big of a deal.
It’s not a problem there’s benefits for it to even canon have a whole pile of lenses that focus Breath usually means that the lens can focus closer which is a benefit in weddings most of the new lenses focus breath to some degree throwing away your lenses because they focus breeze is just stupidity I’m sorry for being so blunt
Focus breathing is not a problem you can just move in or zoom in more when they’re at the maximum distance they are all the same there’s also benefits for focus breathing like closer Focus A lot of canon lens also Focus breathe even the L-series and Nikon i’ve known this for years it’s not a new thing throwing away lenses that focus breath is like throwing your sharp lenses in the bin it makes no sense yes lens companies should provide that information but it only applies if you’re extremely small studio
Focus breathing isn’t a problem it happens on Canon lenses two its been like that for years Canon 100 to 400 has massive focus breathing but it’s not a problem Tony stop it One step forward one step back fixes the problem
This was nerdelicious!
Smaakjeks K he's been voted sexiest nerd.
+floex831
Nothing sexier than a sharp mind!
Smaakjeks K couldn't agree more. However I love the ladies. But I do admit Mr. Northrup is a very good looking man.
lol
I guess since I have always a Nikon shooter I never noticed. I guess you can't miss what you never had. Tony, the service you can do for audience is review the Tamron and give an assessment of how it compares against the competition. My 70-200mm is broken. It will cost about $1,100 to fix so I am trying to decide whether to buy the expensive new Nikon version or is the new Tamron a feasible option. With $40K in Nikon gear switching to Canon is not an option i will have to live with focus breathing.
Great video, watching from brazil
Thanks!
I heard you mention it before, I was hoping you will dedicate a video for it. Thanks.
Thanks Tony I was going to buy the Tamron 70-200mm now I'll save a little more money and get the Nikon. Thanks For the informative video
I will say that depends in the application that the lens intended to be used for, if it really matters or not.
However, video "breathing" can have an impact when focus stacking stills. That's where I've run into it: Same focal length + multiple focus planes = slightly different sizes. My old cheap-ish Sigma 17-70 shows it. Great video!
Tony, I love your videos and I really appreciate them. But honestly, I was lost almost from the beginning of this video, and I never caught up with what you were talking about here. But I would like to know more about this. I wish I could just sit down with you and have you explain this to me.
I had been wonder what this was. Thank you.
Also in the realm of what has been seen cannot be unseen. When you are moving your hands up around your face, it casts a moving shadow in the bottom left corner. I spent this video watching that shadow while listening. lol.
Great video! Do extension tubes effect the auto focusing capabilities?
They shouldn't (if you buy extension tubes with AF capabilities) but focusing at close range is always harder for a lens.
Tony about to become these companies enemy #1 lol. Good Vid Tony, really informative.
would still love to see a review of the new tamron 70-200 because of its closest focus range. you can get closer if you wanted the subjet to be more in your frame. so yes if possible would still love to see a full video from you guys.
prufesuroak seconded.
Thirded! I can't afford the Nikon 70-200 but thought the last gen Tamron was lacking in VC and perhaps durability, both of which seem to be addressed. So I'm pretty excited about the G2 and would love a T&C review - even if it mentions the focus breathing. I'd be using it on a D500 so want know how it works on a crop sensor too.
Tony please do a review of the new Tamron, because even if it suffer focus breathing it also have a close focus of only 0,95mt which probably compensates the focus breathing.
Thanks, love these info thingys.
I think you need to review both the new Tamron and Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses and find out how they perform in terms of focus breathing at short distances. I've already got the latest Nikon 70-200/2.8e , and it's huge improvement in focus breathing comparing with the previous version. Minimum focusing distance has also been reduced to 1.1m. According to specs of the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 G2, its minimum focusing distance is 0.95m which is class leading. I know it doesn't make sense to have such short minimum focusing distance and a lower than expected magnification ratio at the same time. But Matt Granger's recent review really showed the lens has decent magnification on shooting close subjects. It's worthwhile to take a look.
Yeah, it has good magnification, but terrible focus breathing.
Steven Lui the focus breathing seems to me the only down real down side of the new Tamron 70-200 G2 when compar d to the new Nikon 70-200 E and considering its $1500 less, I'm willing to live with the focus breathing. I still have the original and it's amazing.
Matt Granger did some sample images in a video and he indicated that the focus breathing problem wasn't as severe with the new Tamron 70-200. Can you site your source for the info about the Tamron?
ive seen some people saying that the new tamron is as good or even better than the nikon or canon, and here is this guy saying that he wont even talk about it ?
No, pretty sure Tony said the new Tamron was better than Canons in another episode. He must be talking about old tamron.
Matt didn't believe the last version of the Nikon 70-200 mm 2.8 had a bad focus breathing problem.
He is only talking about focus breathing not fast focus or sharpness, for something to be better it does not mean in every aspect does it?
Matt did a good job of demonstrating how severe the focus breathing is with the Tamron.
Clear video, I finally get it now. Now, I'll continue my hunt for a K mount AF extension tube set. They don't seem to exist :/
Alway enjoy your video's Tony, I have been looking at so many reviews on the 70-200 F2.8 range, from Nikon to Tamron and even Sigma, this helps a great deal although the Nikon is out of my price range new might be lucky and get a second hand one from work 😁😁
Thank you Tony...
That is really unfortunate about the new Tamron 70-200. Was hoping the focus breathing would be minimal. And thank you for making this issue much more well known. What I find annoying are those people that will say the focus breathing is not an issue, just more closer. To all those people,....let me explain myself,....I don't care what you think about the focus breathing, if it is not an issue for you, wonderful, go on with your wonderful life. But for those of us that do have an issue with it your opinions are not relevant.
so I remember watching this 2 years ago and thinking, "wow I am certainly not gonna buy the tamron G2" and here I am now realizing that the focus breathing isnt that big of an issue 90% of the time. if I need a 200mm its because I need that extra reach. if I wanna shoot something closer, id probably get a macro lens anyways. Here I am in 2019 buying a tamron g2 because its dirt cheap and nobody cares about focus breathing haha.
Yeah it’s such a trivial quality to complain about unless you’re working with video. Most will get the 70-200 because they want reach. This ‘issue’ only means folks should test their gear and know how it works before using it in a working environment (like they continue to mention as their example).
Excellent...
what about teleconverts?
by adding a distance from the lense to the sensor fix focus breathing on the new focal distance?
It'll add distance, yes, but also reduces the f/stop. sdp.io/tc
Tony & Chelsea Northrup thanks !
Why dont you review the New Tamron 70-200 the focus breathing thing ? i was reading random comments and people wish that you do a review about it :) i also would love to see how the tamron will perform before buying one .
thanks for this informative video :)
Thanks Tony!
Great video. Only I thought "focus breathing" means that the focused lens goes out of focus when you zoom in or out. When shooting a video in autofocus mode and zooming in or out you then get the effect that the picture becomes shortly defocused and then focused again. This gives the "breathing" effect, hence the name. (Many lenses do that, esp. when designed for stills, not videos, but some don't.) Am I wrong?
Great explanation. I noticed just using live view that I could see it. With my cheap 75-300 canon f4-5.6 the front of the lens moves when focusing, so it doesn't breath: the image blurs but nothing moves/translates. With my sigma 17-50 f2.8 the objects at the side translate off-frame as they blur. I bet it'll be even more clean comparing the tamrom 70-200 vs the canon 70-200
Thanks for sharing!
great article
Thanks for the review, especially for the "fix it" I will now get out my tubes and check out my Tamron 150-600 G2 (which is wonderful and way better than G1 "please test it") and the Sigma 150mm macro non OS!
Thanks for the great videos! did you guy ever got around to test if the Sony 70-200 f2.8 GM has focus breathing? if you did, can you please post the link?
Thanks so much!
I appreciate you testing for focus breathing, and I wish other lens reviewers did as well (is it really that difficult?), as it is an important consideration for a zoom portrait lens. And there is no easy fix. I also use extension tubes on some of my lenses and the focus limitation that introduces is very limiting.
Have you ever made a quantitative list of the various lenses and their breathing?
I still find it odd that Dxomark doesn't have this as one of thier metrics. Wish they did...
There is lots of things DXO doesn't test
They aren't a benchmarking company, they are improving their software by accomodating all possible hardware along with their specific details. They test things that can be corrected in software so that they can sell their products as the best. Just so happens that their tests prove useful as a benchmarking metric.
They can't correct focus breathing through software. They only way to do that is the photographer stepping back and cropping in post or using extension tubes.
They need autofocus speed in my opinion. That is so important for sports/wildlife applications.
Thanks for dedicating a video to this problem. Focus breathing can be a serious problem for some photographers and while I don't mind that much for the work i do, I can still understand how it is a deal-breaker for others. I never thought about using extension tubes but it also has disadvantages besides the focus range like the probable loss of weather sealing.
A bit of a different question: You did a brilliant review on the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD and i was wondering if you could get your hands on the new Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD G2 to make a review. It seems like a extremely interesting lens for the price you pay.
Tony - Does this vary from lens to lens even from within the same make and model? In other words is it a matter of manufacturing tolerances? In the golf equipment industry you can buy a driver that is supposed to have 9* of loft, but given the manufacturing tolerances of +/- 1* it could actually be 8* or 10* which is pretty significant. Like driver loft, focal length is kind of important so I feel like they should at the very minimum say something like 50-200mm +/- 25
Internal focusing may change the the focal length if not at infinity. From the Sony manual: •Depending on the lens mechanism, the focal length may change with any change in shooting distance. The focal lengths given above assume the lens is focused at infinity.
Tony , nice breakdown , but by posting a photo of the new Tamron 70-200 you misled us a little bit . I thought you would review it and discuss whether or not Tamron had addressed the focus breathing issues .
+j cortes it hasnt addressed the focus breathing.
Thanks Tony for clarifying the obscure ;-)
Thank you for this. Frustrating re: the new Tamron. A 70-200mm w/ a true 200mm focal length up close for portraits seems to be a bit of a unicorn, particularly for Nikon bodies. Aside from Nikon's ridiculously priced 200mm f/2 prime is there another lens for Nikon w/ a true 200mm focal length?
Are there any gadgets that can do the opposite? Reduce focal length?
Hi Phil, didn't knew you are interested in photography! :) huge fan of your retro gaming channel!
Thanks for this information. You certainly stirred up a lot of photographers. There is a simple solution: Wrap the lens in a plastic bag for 15 minutes before use. It will smother. No more breathing of any sort :) Seriously, when using my original Canon 100mm macro on a focus rail for focus stacking, should I see much focus breathing? Is it better to focus from back to front or from front to back to minimize the FB effect? Your focus stacking video suggests going from closest to furthest.
Can you please do a video explaining crop sensor vs full sensor DSLRs and how it affects lens performance? Hope that made sense. Thank you!
Max TheCorgs i think the link to this is sdp.io/ffcrop
DracariaEntertainment thanks so much, for some reason I couldn't find it :)
Great info. This is going to take a few rewatches for it to really sink in and be able to grok it. Thank you. :)
Also would be nice if they told you what kind of motor was in the lenses you bought too.
Great video.....do prime lens also suffer from focus breathing ? i.e. 85mm, 135mm etc
Tony tFuntek yes they do
Thank you