Um... awesome! The fact that all three of you had widely divergent criteria for your lists was fantastic. Zee's list was super historical, Tom's more contemporary, and Sam's super personal. And therefore, all the bases got covered pretty well and the very concept of the list, "what is influential?" got covered more in depth than it would have if you were all approaching it the exact same way. Excellent!
Great list. The only thing that I would add is the fact that MTG & Catan seem to be gateway games to the larger nonmainstream gaming world. Mainstream meaning standard card games, chess, monopoly etc and the general stuff you expect to find at places like wally.
I think modern wargaming owes a lot to Stratego. It brought the idea of freely moving around a board that resembles a real-world location, setting up ambushes, and trying to capture one strategic piece/location (as opposed to RISK, which requires complete conquest).
The only category I can think of that doesn't seem to have been represented at all is word games - there are a lot of them and the feature is quite distinct from everything on this list. I don't know what the 'first' was but I would guess Scrabble is the obvious choice?
This is definitely one of the most interesting top 10 lists so far. Three quite different and valid viewpoints on the subject, which made the video very worthwhile to watch.
Oy, guys... again, it would be really helpful if you defined your terms before coming up with these lists. As usual, Zee turns in a dutiful, studied list, Tom relies on his breadth of knowledge and experience to breeze through the exercise, and Sam didn't understand the assignment. Before counting him out, though, there is actually a ton of value in Sam's approach to this top ten list. While I think Tom intended a certain amount of objectivity in coming up with a list of very influential games, that task quickly folds. There are so many ways to approach the concept of influence and so many assumptions you have to make to be on the same project that Zee and Tom, although similar in intention, ended up revealing two incredibly problematic and arbitrary lists. Although he wouldn't be able to put it in an argument, Sam actually had a great instinct for this project. You can't be objective without defining a voluminous number of terms, all of which hadn't been defined. So he worked on a much more interesting and valuable project: total subjectivity. Although, I really have nothing in common with Sam's gaming interests, listening to him go though a personal history of games that have influenced him is WAY more interesting and valuable than watching Tom and Zee poke around in the dark with conjectures and opinions based on their experience with every game ever. Please make a top ten list called: "Top 10 Games in my gaming Biography." Viewers will already know the number one spot for each of you, but it will be so interesting to hear your gaming biographies. I love your banter, but the bickering can be irritating and a lot of that will go away if you get everyone on the same page before you start.
Adrian Alvarez Not having the mounds of industry insider information that Tom had or the historic interest that Zee brought, I was kind of left to my own devices. And while you're right, I probably wouldn't have put it into a crisp and clear argument, I definitely went with my gut here. I knew I wouldn't be able to piece together a coherent list based on the strengths that Tom and Zee brought, so I had to stick with what I knew, and that was what games influenced me, and how they seem to have influenced other games. I appreciate your words, as I found myself lacking in the confidence department on this one. Thanks again!
Adrian Alvarez I like the free-form way they do it and the more fluid definition, personally. The reason being, you end up with different lists from different perspectives in this way. If they defined it in a specific way, this particular list would probably be really consistent from person to person.
Sam Healey these lists are fun because you all have a different view on things. The different approaches and discussions is what brings me to watch them. It doesn't really matter what you put in your list, as long you personally think the lists should look like that and you back it up with arguments, it is fun to watch. Just keep doing what you guys do and i'll be coming back to enjoy it.
+Jeff Moore I was thinking about that. No mention of Dominoes or Mahjong... although I would say those two can be considered very cultural in influence.
That's because these guys don't play the classics...which is a bit of a shame considering Chess might make it into the Olympics and is bigger than ever!
Yeah ! Back on track guys ! This one was a proposition of mine when I commented Turkey Games. At least, you're not talking of the same games over and over. I love the approach. Thanks for this ! More of this !
Being first doesn't make a game more influential, so I'm with Tom on the LotR debate. Pandemic is far more influential as a co-op game and has had a greater impact on designers and the gaming community. That said, Sam's list is obviously very personal to him and may not fit into what I would consider influential. Nothing wrong with that, that's why it's awesome that we get three different lists here.
I gotta say, I really enjoyed how each list had such a different scope and point of view. I was definitely expecting more modern games (if you had planned the different perspectives thing ahead, one list being games under, say, 20 years old could've been really interesting) but I was glad to see how it turned out. Nice work!
Very interesting top ten topic and lots of good discussion, glad to see you guys back with a top ten list. Also, I love the three points of view that you all bring to the discussion. Last thing here, @ Sam, "Leave No Man Behind"; damn straight.
Love the top 10 lists you guys, keep em coming :) I have a recommendation for a top 10 list that people might enjoy: Top 10 Games with the Best Flavor. Slightly different from your previous "best theme" list, as that list involved games where the theme and mechanics meshed well. A "best flavor" list would involve things like the richest/most interesting backstory, best artwork, character descriptions, basically everything that is not crucial to the mechanics of the game.
Probably get shot down for this but Warhammer Fantasy Battle/Warhammer 40K would have been on my list. OK, not the most revolutionary or original in terms of it's gameplay or mechanics and their recent history has alienated most everybody in the gaming community. But, in the 90s pretty much every town and city in the UK had a Games Workshop bursting with (my wife insists I add the word "stinky" ) teenage boys, some even accompanied by bored looking girlfriends. Most of them still do.They have stores all across Europe and the USA. Even Limoges, my local French city has one and KFC only arrived here last year!! Every hobby type shop be it trains, plane airfix, even Hobbycraft stocked it. My local city, Bristol, had two GW stores. I know people with absolutely no interest in gaming, fantasy or roleplaying in any way shape or form (including D&D MtG etc etc), who will still have had this 40K army or that WFB army at some point in their teenage/university years, even if it was just to paint the miniatures. Surely for it's wide appeal, influence and success outside what we would think of as the usual gaming and/or RPGing crowd/community it should be up there.
completely agree, you don't have to be a fan to acknowledge the fact that there is an entire business devoted to those games. Warhammer has also directly influenced games like warmachine, hordes, Dropzone, Etc. The miniatures games have spin-offs that are successful. There are even businesses that make terrain for the game, it really is a very influential game. I tend to think they intentionally left it off the list, although i'm not sure why.
Thomas Batson I really think it's to do with the recent financial/commercial behaviour of GW. It's simply not the done done thing to acknowledge GW at the moment because of their price hikes and "legal activities". Ignore the financial success and subsequent capitalist behaviour and just look at the success of the two universes they created. I mean in terms of "intellectual property" Like you point out, just look at how many games outside of the WFB and 40K wargames use their setting. Fantasy Flight on their own make several spin-offs.
I was going into this with scepticism, I thought those list were going to be pretty same-y, but of course, every one interpreted this topic a little differently - that's what I love about this videos :-) And I actually would like to see what Sam started to do in another video: everyones top 10 games, that peronally influenced them the most. That would be more of a trip down memory lane, I think that would be fun to watch and have some surprises in store.
Zee's list was on fire! He got it right. I thought the opposite on the start, that Zee's list would be not that good, boy was I wrong. Good job guys, all you lists were good but Zee had it the best.
Maybe people wont talk about Dominion in 40 to 50 years, but I sincerely think the mechanic, as it was used in Dominion, will still be there. That's influential. (ps : Monopoly published by Plaid Hat ?)
I would have included Caylus (worker placement games), Mafia/Werewolf (social deduction / party games), Acquire (streamlined "Euro" games / economic game), and 1830 (18xx series and other economic / stock games). Granted, they would be MUCH farther down on the list than the big names, but those really did contribute a lot.
To add to the co-op conversation, what about Arkham Horror? It originally came out over a decade before LotR, is very adult oriented and the new edition is still played on a regular basis.
I never play the original Catan anymore, but Seafarers and/or Cities and Knights still make it to our family's table several times a year. It's a great game. Still.
10 років тому+6
Nice topic, but I think a list with only post-Settlers games would be more interesting. Dominion was a good choice.
Zee is so wrong about Dominion. Like it or not, it's been highly influential, and as Tom said, brought in a whole new style of gaming. I often hear people reference it when discussing new games.
I have no idea how AH's Civilization didn't end up on this list. So many games have endeavored to replicate its deep, empire building gameplay into a more manageable time frame. Like, maybe, Catan?
As a German I am very disappointed in Tom for not drinking beer! ;-) Thanks for taking the time to redo the top 10, guys. I can imagine that it was a lot harder to go through the motions and the discussions while knowing the lists of the other participants a priori.
Great list guys. Don't listen to some of these silly commenters, All 3 of you had excellent lists that were YOUR lists and how you interpreted them to be. Awesome job. Haters gonna hate!
9 mans morris, backgammon, chess, go, parcheesi all over a 1000 years old and still played so its not like humanity hasn't had things to play before 250 years ago
Yea, there's way more than "3" games that are older than 250 years. I guess Tom thinks that nobody came up with games/toys before 1850? Baseball cards were already around by about that time.
I just watched this for the second time and am surprised to realise backgammon is missing. It's 5000 years old in principle and probably influenced all roll and move games.
But...Carcassonne, and "tile placement" in general, owes a *lot* to dominoes, does it not? That brings up the question: should any of the guys have mentioned dominoes?
The thing Carcassonne brought which changed the industry, was expansions. It may not have been the first, but it was the first I know of that had successful, playable, desirable, and affordable expansions.
I think Tom's list made the most sense. I think Zee interpreted the list as the top ten pioneering games, that is, the very first games to introduce some type of mechanism. But that's not what influential means.
Interesting video. Here's a list I came up with. This list is based off what influenced myself as a gamer and games which I feel had an impact on other games. The number 1-10 isn't significat, it's just the way they came out in my mind. 1) Final Fantasy III- Open world RPG with a detailed level-up system and individual character stories. 2) Dungeons and Dragons- The leader in the "NAT 20" and led the way for other gaming systems like Shadowrun, D20, and Spelljammer to name a few. 3) Golden Eye- This 1st person shooter changed the1st person shooter in a way that gamers who never played this game won't understand. 4) Ultima Online- This MMO paved the way for many to follow. While WoW is obviously the leader of the pack for MMO's now, Ultima was my first MMO love and paved the way for many to follow. 5) Warhammer Fantasy Battles- This table top game has been around for more than 25 years and there is still a US Mster each year to determine the top player in the US and the top region in the US. 6) Warhammer 40k- The futuristic version of Warhammer and has played a significant role for other games. If you look at Starcraft you could identify the races with eldar, tyranids, space marines. 7) Heroquest- This action RPG based board game led to 2 moreversions and the original can be seen for as much as $300.00 on ebay. 8) Street Fighter- With out this game I highly doubt we have the level of fighing based games as we do now. I spent many hours before and after school at 7elevn playing this game. 9) Magic the Gathering- This game is still a huge deal and many other CCG's have used this as a starting point. I remember being 13 and tyring to build tournament decks in the mid '90's. 10) Risk- This was my learning game before gettting into Axis and Allies. You then saw Shogun and many other games based off the same "concept". Like I said, that's my list based off the influences they had on me and the impacts I feel and saw have on the other games that exist today. Many of the games listed in their video, I never playerd or care to play.
Tom had the other Top 10 on an SD card and accidentally recorded over it (he mentioned this in one of the live chats). I believe it was this same top 10, and they just had to re-record it.
I'm very surprised that WH40K was not mentioned. I mean, you want to talk about something that keeps the lights on at many stores. I mean, just about every game that uses contemporary minis owes it's existence to 40K and associated Games Workshop products.
Although Tom and Zee hit most of the high lights I think you missed a couple: Scrabble. It basically defined word games. Acquire. Possibly the father of euro games.
And on the games mentioned, the only one I missed being on the list is Ticket to Ride. It is the one game, that after I introduced it, had the most people that went on and bought it afterwards. Even my mom bought a copy for herself after playing it. I understand that it might not have introduced anything new, but I believe its simplicity attracted a whole bunch of new people into the hobby, and this makes it important.
Hmm the Monopoly info appears to be the Dead of Winter info - Monopoly wasn't designed in 2014 by Jonathan Gilmour and Isaac Vega, taking 100 minutes! Check around 35:00 mark
Offtopic note about who invented flight, that I as a Brazilian felt obliged to mention: Look up who was Santos Dummond, the man behind the first flight actually witnessed by someone other than himself (of themselves) in the case of the Wright Brothers...
This Top 10 brought to you by Virgil's Sodas and Root Beers ;) Also, I think the term Sam was looking for to describe his #9 pick is Asymmetrical. One person playing against several others and both sides having different objectives.
18:03 - Doesn't chess has deterministic combat? And it's not like we see that kind of combat that often, more often than not there is a luck element to resolving combat.
Ok it has to be said, Dominion is not the first game that introduced deck building mechanic as part of the game. In early magic there were a game style called Rochester draft, where people were building their decks from a common card pool.
What about Oware (I think it is the oldest) or some other type of Mancala game. If I remember correctly they were the first games to have something resembling a board, and we still use the mancala mechanic a lot in modern games.
all great games, but the one I think you missed is Scrabble: any word game is compared to Scrabble, but there are two specific mechanics that turn up in many other places: 1. drawing back up to a fixed hand size (whether of tiles or cards) 2. laying interconnecting lines (Qwirkle and Iota are two recent ones which are basically Scrabble with shapes)
THANK YOU, Zee, for putting D&D on the list, and TOM for putting it No. 1. It just would not have been a good list without it. D&D ist important not so much for the game itself but for the HUGE impact it had on modern gaming as a whole. For 4 decades now it has established countless tropes and memes throughout gaming and pop culture.
Tom is so right here...lumping Magic and Dominion together is really dumb. These games are extremely different. The deck building in Magic is "static" (drafting aside). You do it in advance of playing the game and then it takes no actual part in the game itself. In Dominion deck-building is dynamic, it *IS* the game. I'd put Hero Quest on the list.
Great job guys, entertaining and interesting as always....my nomination would've been maybe Shadows Over Camelot...?(I think Tom mentioned it briefly...?) Just for the introduction to the "traitor" element? Thoughts?
Nice list, but I really miss some games on it, like: Maffia/Werewolf (social deduction), Heroquest (dungeon mini's), Age of Steam (train games)... but most of all: No Citadels (role selection)? :P
Not sure if it counts but in my mind the grandfather of all party games is Twister. That said, great to have another top 10 list. A bit surprising that Axis and Allies didn't appear on Tom's list, unless I missed that part.
Is the Game of Goose not known in America? As far as I know it's the earliest example that combines moving on a board with dice rolling. First examples where made around 1600. The game is still available in stores today.
Never played Dominion before, but I would like to point out that it was Zee who said 225 years for modern games and then everything before that as ancient. If you take it that way, a game like Dominion still being talked about in another 10-20 years after it's been out for 10 is hovering around 10% of the modern gaming era. That certainly isn't a blip to ignore. In the greater scale of all gaming history, sure, but certainly for modern games I think it is definitely a powerhouse.
Good lists, guys. Pretty much what I spelled out apart from Magic, which is in a blind spot for me; I just don't think about it at all, but absolutely does deserve to be here. Solid lists.
I wonder if Small World might one day be considered for this list, based on the affect that Wil Wheaton's show has had on the hobby. Small World was the first game they played, and it reintroduced me to the hobby. I am fairly sure I am not alone in this.
Look up Vinci, it's from 1999. It is like Small World, but without the fantasy theme. Small World itself had not really been influential to other games.
Rick Sleurink True, but I am thinking of the impact on the popularity of the hobby. Table Top has been influential and Small World was the first game. Had they chosen something less engaging, might we be in a different gaming world?
Screen playa Also true. I discovered this 'modern' kind of board gaming through Scott Nicholson long before Will and Tom & co. But I must admit that Tabletop made a huge impact on me, seeing the game actually played, instead of 'just' an opinion. Now I'm hooked on the Dicetower, Tabletop, Spellslingers and well... the list is growing, so is the hobby!
I disagree. I agree Tabletop has had a big impact, but Small World does not deserve a place on this list. In My opinion, although I really like it, tabletop and its influence is just slightly overrated.
I also disagree. Possibly I'm biased because Smallworld is one of my least favorite games, but it is certainly heavily influenced on its own by its predecessor Vinci and even farther back games like Risk and Axis & Allies. I can't really think of a single game that exists and can trace its roots directly to Small World.
Totally agree with the MTG, Catan, and Cosmic influences...I would have rather lumped all the older, chess, go, etc. into a single group, or just said, obviously they all are influencing games so we won't go there...:) From a REALLY modern gaming standpoint, would you think something like a Golem Arcana will be a future influence from the innovative app/gaming hybrid mechanic, or was there something that did that before?
Great stuff (long time lurker; A&A, D&D, Wadjet player - and if you can tell me how to actually play that last gorgeously produced game: Huzzah!). A piece like this screams out for a final predictive segment. As in: which upcoming, new or unreleased, game X with "new mechanics" Y will be influential for Z reasons... What's the new paradigm, or a movement in that direction? Best, Chris.
I'm really surprised that Pandemic didn't feature on this list - Zee even mentioned it as a joke. But seriously, while it wasn't the first co-op to the party, I don't see how ANYONE could deny the impact this game has had to the co-op genre. It literally exploded after this game hit. D&D, Magic, Settlers of Catan, poker, Monopoly, Chess - these would all have been on mine too.
I feel that I have decent knowledge in games but you guys really opened my eyes. My list would be so different after watching this then before. I can't agree with you guys more on all your lists.
There are a few more than three ames older than 250 years: chess (and relatives - shatranj, shoji, xiangqi, etc), checkers, go, backgammon, parcheesi, senet, royal game of Ur, rithmomachy, dominoes, cribbage, mancala, hnefstafl, fox and geese, aware, morris, dreidel... plus many, many card games.
i had a question. so im designing a game but i realized that the name that i had in mind is taken by a game that is already out. It is a different game and has different mechanics than the game with the same name. Also its on boardgamegeek and its like in the 600s-700s in terms of ranking. Would i still be able to use the name or do i have to go with a different name?
Name it whatever you want. Tons of games use the same names....just don't copy the mechanics of the game in question - there is some legal scrutiny over copyright mechanics.
i enjoyed watching the Video. But I think that Rommé (or Rummy how you would call it) has to be mentioned. Because this was the first game that brought up the idea to collect sets or rows to win a game. Even modern games like Catan or Ticket to Ride are using this mechanic.
I'm asking myself why have you put chess instead of chaturanga, which is its oldest ancestor, and gave rise to all variants, like chinese chess, shogi, etc?
Beatriz Karwai Good question... though I'm not sure that precursor status necessarily equates to "most influential." Chaturanga became Chess, in much its current form, spreading from India to Persia to Europe... but it was chess, in it's essentially modern state, that most influenced similar games that followed (strategy, "unit promotion," etc). It remains a cultural amalgam. Most changes towards modern rules occurred during the middle ages in Europe when, reflecting the rise of the church and the growing power of women, we saw the removal of a dice component (which, being based on chance, the church viewed negatively as a form of gambling). Elephants became bishops and The Vizier became The Queen (reflecting the rise of powerful queens, Eleanor of Aquitaine, etc). And The Rook, who started as a chariot became a knight (though we still use the original Arabic word for chariot - "Ruk" - to refer to the piece). Something I've always found intriguing about the development of chess is that it's explicit portrayal of societal roles was always a few centuries ahead of reality... The idea of pawn promotion, for instance, predates the queen/vizier swap (you could promote a pawn to vizier, who could then only move one space, until he was supplanted by The Queen). The queen, then, became the most powerful piece on the board long before most women in society, apart from select European queens, gained any real power. But the idea that "a peon," a pawn, could rise above his or her station first developed around the 9th C... long before that was in any way possible in the real world. BTW, though I was born and raised in Boston, I spent much of my formative years in south-east Asia, primarily India, and have an abiding respect for the culture.
Would DnD represent the 4X genre? Or was that category missed? They joked about Twilight Imperium, but I was surprised the 6-8hr games weren't talked about...
I'd like to see a top ten travel-friendly games. I recently went on a cruise with my wife and we brought along the game, Hive. Got me thinking about other games that travel well.
No, because different players get different action points based on dice they roll? Then why not say snakes and ladders has action points? :) Roll and move is different than action points.
Dice Tower Chess is from India, homey. Every continent has had their influence on the game however (see "en passant"). Shogi is a cool Japanese version where you get to use the pieces that you capture. Chess has so many cool variants to it (Suicide Chess, Chess 960, Bughouse Chess).
Interesting top ten, but also highly undefinable. While some were obvious some were not. I personally would have included ticket to ride, the list was influential games not necessarily innovative... And I feel this has had a huge influence on the hobby.
I'd love to through out Tafl games as being very influential (such as Hnefatafl). Many historians agree they probably influenced modern chess and they are the earliest form of asymmetrical game I'm aware of. While I'm not surprised they didn't make anyone's list seeing as they aren't as popular today, I just wanted to give a shout out for those who also had their inner nerd excited by this list. I only know of Hnefatafl due to my Norwegian ancestry, but it's a great game none the less. I would place it up there with chess and go as classics, check it out if you're interested.
My list 1) Senet 2) Dungeons and Dragons 3) Monopoly 4) Catan 5) Poker 6) Chess 7) Dominoes 8) Diplomacy 9) Yahtzee 10)Magic the Gathering 11) Snakes and Ladders
Settlers of Catan is the board game that got me into the massive world of modern board gaming and I love it. I can also understand Sam's reason as to why he dislikes the game. There's just some games that don't stick with you, especially when you discover better and funner alternatives. So to hate Sam's opinion -which probably is just a misunderstanding on his stance on the game- on Catan is sorta weird and really illogical in the end.
Some definite influential games mentioned there. I worked in a games shop from 94 to 02 and can backup those comments/recommendations. However Games Workshop needs to be thrown into the mix, whether we consider fantasy, 40k or side games like Blood Bowl. In short miniatures gaming. This extrapolates across to games like Hero Quest (By MB licensing). Between RPG's (Mainly D&D), Miniature Gaming (GW) and Magic the Gathering, we stayed in business (Those three would have been about 70% of revenue). Commercially wise, games like Catan done ok, but their biggest benefit was bringing people into other board games of the time (So Influential gateway game). I'd mention Axis and Allies as it's what got me into gaming back in the 80's, but I agree it was Risk Advanced and if Risk is mentioned it's technically covered. Anyway, great list Dice Tower Team.
I cannot believe none of you mentioned the oldest and most popular board game in the world: backgammon. Perhaps the original board game, the original roll the dice and move your men game, played daily the world over. Adding the element of chance by relying on the roll of the dice, backgammon is more influential on modern board games than either Go or chess. Backgammon, my dudes. Backgammon for the win.
Omitted: Diplomacy, Mafia/Werewolf. I think those two games have introduced some revolutionary mechanics and have an ongoing legacy, if not individual staying power.
next time for cards maybe just list Hoyles. Deteministic combat and negotiation Cosmic Encouter? think Diplomacy did both those far earlier and probably more influentially.
Um... awesome! The fact that all three of you had widely divergent criteria for your lists was fantastic. Zee's list was super historical, Tom's more contemporary, and Sam's super personal. And therefore, all the bases got covered pretty well and the very concept of the list, "what is influential?" got covered more in depth than it would have if you were all approaching it the exact same way. Excellent!
Most influential imo:
*D&D* popularized roleplaying games,
*Catan* popularized euro games,
*MTG* popularized TCGs,
*Monopoly* popularized boardgames in general,
*Chess* popularized strategy games,
*Dominion* popularized deck builders,
*Risk* popularized wargames,
*Cosmic Encounter* popularized player powers,
*Poker* popularized card games in general and
*Dice* popularized dice/self explanatory.
Great list. The only thing that I would add is the fact that MTG & Catan seem to be gateway games to the larger nonmainstream gaming world. Mainstream meaning standard card games, chess, monopoly etc and the general stuff you expect to find at places like wally.
@@JohnBrown-wk4io I'd put Panzer Blitz, Squad Leader or even Tactics II ahead of Risk.
This is a list of best selling games
Diplomacy introduced the idea of losing friends over a game, lol.
Monopoly introduced it, Diplomacy perfected it.
It's a new genre!
I think modern wargaming owes a lot to Stratego. It brought the idea of freely moving around a board that resembles a real-world location, setting up ambushes, and trying to capture one strategic piece/location (as opposed to RISK, which requires complete conquest).
The only category I can think of that doesn't seem to have been represented at all is word games - there are a lot of them and the feature is quite distinct from everything on this list. I don't know what the 'first' was but I would guess Scrabble is the obvious choice?
I 100% agree with Tom about Dominion. 50 Years from now the Dominion deck building ideas will still be incorporated in some games.
This is definitely one of the most interesting top 10 lists so far. Three quite different and valid viewpoints on the subject, which made the video very worthwhile to watch.
Another great Top 10. The chemistry with these 3 and their willingness to agree and disagree make for a great watch. Keep em coming boys.
Oy, guys... again, it would be really helpful if you defined your terms before coming up with these lists. As usual, Zee turns in a dutiful, studied list, Tom relies on his breadth of knowledge and experience to breeze through the exercise, and Sam didn't understand the assignment.
Before counting him out, though, there is actually a ton of value in Sam's approach to this top ten list. While I think Tom intended a certain amount of objectivity in coming up with a list of very influential games, that task quickly folds. There are so many ways to approach the concept of influence and so many assumptions you have to make to be on the same project that Zee and Tom, although similar in intention, ended up revealing two incredibly problematic and arbitrary lists. Although he wouldn't be able to put it in an argument, Sam actually had a great instinct for this project. You can't be objective without defining a voluminous number of terms, all of which hadn't been defined. So he worked on a much more interesting and valuable project: total subjectivity. Although, I really have nothing in common with Sam's gaming interests, listening to him go though a personal history of games that have influenced him is WAY more interesting and valuable than watching Tom and Zee poke around in the dark with conjectures and opinions based on their experience with every game ever.
Please make a top ten list called: "Top 10 Games in my gaming Biography." Viewers will already know the number one spot for each of you, but it will be so interesting to hear your gaming biographies. I love your banter, but the bickering can be irritating and a lot of that will go away if you get everyone on the same page before you start.
Adrian Alvarez Not having the mounds of industry insider information that Tom had or the historic interest that Zee brought, I was kind of left to my own devices. And while you're right, I probably wouldn't have put it into a crisp and clear argument, I definitely went with my gut here. I knew I wouldn't be able to piece together a coherent list based on the strengths that Tom and Zee brought, so I had to stick with what I knew, and that was what games influenced me, and how they seem to have influenced other games. I appreciate your words, as I found myself lacking in the confidence department on this one. Thanks again!
You bet, Sam. Like I said, I really thought your instinct was great and I would love to see it fleshed out in an "official" top ten from you guys.
Adrian Alvarez I like the free-form way they do it and the more fluid definition, personally. The reason being, you end up with different lists from different perspectives in this way. If they defined it in a specific way, this particular list would probably be really consistent from person to person.
DemonmachinE Exactly. Why would you want the same list said 3 times in a slightly different order?
Sam Healey these lists are fun because you all have a different view on things. The different approaches and discussions is what brings me to watch them. It doesn't really matter what you put in your list, as long you personally think the lists should look like that and you back it up with arguments, it is fun to watch. Just keep doing what you guys do and i'll be coming back to enjoy it.
What about Dominoes?? Tile placement and scoring?
wow!
+Jeff Moore I was thinking about that. No mention of Dominoes or Mahjong... although I would say those two can be considered very cultural in influence.
That's because these guys don't play the classics...which is a bit of a shame considering Chess might make it into the Olympics and is bigger than ever!
also Scrabble. Don't know what it's influenced but it is a HUGE game culturally
koalabrownie Definitely. All word games are children of Scrabble. Banana Grams, Boggle, Pick Two, Upwords...
Yeah !
Back on track guys !
This one was a proposition of mine when I commented Turkey Games.
At least, you're not talking of the same games over and over. I love the approach.
Thanks for this !
More of this !
Being first doesn't make a game more influential, so I'm with Tom on the LotR debate. Pandemic is far more influential as a co-op game and has had a greater impact on designers and the gaming community.
That said, Sam's list is obviously very personal to him and may not fit into what I would consider influential. Nothing wrong with that, that's why it's awesome that we get three different lists here.
I gotta say, I really enjoyed how each list had such a different scope and point of view. I was definitely expecting more modern games (if you had planned the different perspectives thing ahead, one list being games under, say, 20 years old could've been really interesting) but I was glad to see how it turned out. Nice work!
Very interesting top ten topic and lots of good discussion, glad to see you guys back with a top ten list. Also, I love the three points of view that you all bring to the discussion. Last thing here, @ Sam, "Leave No Man Behind"; damn straight.
fantastic to have another top ten list to watch, keep up the excellent viewing guys, thanks for all the work!
Love the top 10 lists you guys, keep em coming :)
I have a recommendation for a top 10 list that people might enjoy: Top 10 Games with the Best Flavor.
Slightly different from your previous "best theme" list, as that list involved games where the theme and mechanics meshed well. A "best flavor" list would involve things like the richest/most interesting backstory, best artwork, character descriptions, basically everything that is not crucial to the mechanics of the game.
Probably get shot down for this but Warhammer Fantasy Battle/Warhammer 40K would have been on my list. OK, not the most revolutionary or original in terms of it's gameplay or mechanics and their recent history has alienated most everybody in the gaming community. But, in the 90s pretty much every town and city in the UK had a Games Workshop bursting with (my wife insists I add the word "stinky" ) teenage boys, some even accompanied by bored looking girlfriends. Most of them still do.They have stores all across Europe and the USA. Even Limoges, my local French city has one and KFC only arrived here last year!! Every hobby type shop be it trains, plane airfix, even Hobbycraft stocked it. My local city, Bristol, had two GW stores. I know people with absolutely no interest in gaming, fantasy or roleplaying in any way shape or form (including D&D MtG etc etc), who will still have had this 40K army or that WFB army at some point in their teenage/university years, even if it was just to paint the miniatures. Surely for it's wide appeal, influence and success outside what we would think of as the usual gaming and/or RPGing crowd/community it should be up there.
completely agree, you don't have to be a fan to acknowledge the fact that there is an entire business devoted to those games. Warhammer has also directly influenced games like warmachine, hordes, Dropzone, Etc. The miniatures games have spin-offs that are successful. There are even businesses that make terrain for the game, it really is a very influential game. I tend to think they intentionally left it off the list, although i'm not sure why.
Thomas Batson I really think it's to do with the recent financial/commercial behaviour of GW. It's simply not the done done thing to acknowledge GW at the moment because of their price hikes and "legal activities". Ignore the financial success and subsequent capitalist behaviour and just look at the success of the two universes they created. I mean in terms of "intellectual property" Like you point out, just look at how many games outside of the WFB and 40K wargames use their setting. Fantasy Flight on their own make several spin-offs.
Yep WarCraft was suppose to be Warhammer, GW lost out on that one.
I was going into this with scepticism, I thought those list were going to be pretty same-y, but of course, every one interpreted this topic a little differently - that's what I love about this videos :-) And I actually would like to see what Sam started to do in another video: everyones top 10 games, that peronally influenced them the most. That would be more of a trip down memory lane, I think that would be fun to watch and have some surprises in store.
Zee's list was on fire! He got it right. I thought the opposite on the start, that Zee's list would be not that good, boy was I wrong. Good job guys, all you lists were good but Zee had it the best.
Maybe people wont talk about Dominion in 40 to 50 years, but I sincerely think the mechanic, as it was used in Dominion, will still be there. That's influential. (ps : Monopoly published by Plaid Hat ?)
I would have included Caylus (worker placement games), Mafia/Werewolf (social deduction / party games), Acquire (streamlined "Euro" games / economic game), and 1830 (18xx series and other economic / stock games). Granted, they would be MUCH farther down on the list than the big names, but those really did contribute a lot.
To add to the co-op conversation, what about Arkham Horror? It originally came out over a decade before LotR, is very adult oriented and the new edition is still played on a regular basis.
I never play the original Catan anymore, but Seafarers and/or Cities and Knights still make it to our family's table several times a year. It's a great game. Still.
Nice topic, but I think a list with only post-Settlers games would be more interesting. Dominion was a good choice.
Zee is so wrong about Dominion. Like it or not, it's been highly influential, and as Tom said, brought in a whole new style of gaming. I often hear people reference it when discussing new games.
I have no idea how AH's Civilization didn't end up on this list. So many games have endeavored to replicate its deep, empire building gameplay into a more manageable time frame. Like, maybe, Catan?
Dominion is the game that got me into the hobby, so I'm glad to see it on the list. Also, I KNEW DnD had to be up there. It's just too huge not to be.
As a German I am very disappointed in Tom for not drinking beer! ;-)
Thanks for taking the time to redo the top 10, guys. I can imagine that it was a lot harder to go through the motions and the discussions while knowing the lists of the other participants a priori.
The list that was accidentally deleted was not on the same topic.
TALISMAN- first of its kind. The closest board game to D&D back in the early-mid 80's.
I'm still a huge fan of Talisman, despite the despised roll and move mechanic :)
my first "real" board game. now I moved on, but its always nice to comeback to it.
Great list guys. Don't listen to some of these silly commenters, All 3 of you had excellent lists that were YOUR lists and how you interpreted them to be. Awesome job. Haters gonna hate!
I would be interested in hearing where you would have placed Diplomacy on your lists. Seems like a rather influential game to me!
I think overall you guys nailed it - particularly Tom's top 3 as far as influence on modern games are concerned.
9 mans morris, backgammon, chess, go, parcheesi all over a 1000 years old and still played so its not like humanity hasn't had things to play before 250 years ago
parchessi?, sorry, for the trouble. Been playing too much Ludo of late.
Yea, there's way more than "3" games that are older than 250 years. I guess Tom thinks that nobody came up with games/toys before 1850? Baseball cards were already around by about that time.
I love Zee's approach to this list! Very well-thought-out.
I just watched this for the second time and am surprised to realise backgammon is missing. It's 5000 years old in principle and probably influenced all roll and move games.
great topic guys. Nice job!
Tom and Zee keep mentioning that D&D isn't a board game but no one said anything like that for Magic, Dominion, or Poker.
Did you think about Carcassonne? It brings a famous thing: Meeple! I'm not sure if this game was the first, but I think it brings tiles placement.
Tile placement was a lot older; Dungeonquest at least
But...Carcassonne, and "tile placement" in general, owes a *lot* to dominoes, does it not? That brings up the question: should any of the guys have mentioned dominoes?
isn't a meeple the same as a pawn?
The thing Carcassonne brought which changed the industry, was expansions. It may not have been the first, but it was the first I know of that had successful, playable, desirable, and affordable expansions.
I was surprised at no Scrabble (or, I suppose, some other word game, if you can find one more influential)
I think Tom's list made the most sense. I think Zee interpreted the list as the top ten pioneering games, that is, the very first games to introduce some type of mechanism. But that's not what influential means.
Interesting video. Here's a list I came up with. This list is based off what influenced myself as a gamer and games which I feel had an impact on other games. The number 1-10 isn't significat, it's just the way they came out in my mind.
1) Final Fantasy III- Open world RPG with a detailed level-up system and individual character stories.
2) Dungeons and Dragons- The leader in the "NAT 20" and led the way for other gaming systems like Shadowrun, D20, and Spelljammer to name a few.
3) Golden Eye- This 1st person shooter changed the1st person shooter in a way that gamers who never played this game won't understand.
4) Ultima Online- This MMO paved the way for many to follow. While WoW is obviously the leader of the pack for MMO's now, Ultima was my first MMO love and paved the way for many to follow.
5) Warhammer Fantasy Battles- This table top game has been around for more than 25 years and there is still a US Mster each year to determine the top player in the US and the top region in the US.
6) Warhammer 40k- The futuristic version of Warhammer and has played a significant role for other games. If you look at Starcraft you could identify the races with eldar, tyranids, space marines.
7) Heroquest- This action RPG based board game led to 2 moreversions and the original can be seen for as much as $300.00 on ebay.
8) Street Fighter- With out this game I highly doubt we have the level of fighing based games as we do now. I spent many hours before and after school at 7elevn playing this game.
9) Magic the Gathering- This game is still a huge deal and many other CCG's have used this as a starting point. I remember being 13 and tyring to build tournament decks in the mid '90's.
10) Risk- This was my learning game before gettting into Axis and Allies. You then saw Shogun and many other games based off the same "concept".
Like I said, that's my list based off the influences they had on me and the impacts I feel and saw have on the other games that exist today. Many of the games listed in their video, I never playerd or care to play.
Whew, an new top 10 video. All is right in the world again.
Man, I really need those dice. Chessex? what size are they?
I ordered some 50mm dice from Amazon after seeing those. 😀
Tom had the other Top 10 on an SD card and accidentally recorded over it (he mentioned this in one of the live chats). I believe it was this same top 10, and they just had to re-record it.
It's still like holding back on my heroin. :)
Jim Bourland I just found 70mm on ebay. But I'll still get the 50mm from amazon. Thanks for the heads up
DeathMonkeyOmega It was Top 10 games of 2005 (because it was a decade ago).
I'm very surprised that WH40K was not mentioned. I mean, you want to talk about something that keeps the lights on at many stores.
I mean, just about every game that uses contemporary minis owes it's existence to 40K and associated Games Workshop products.
Kevin Brown you mispelled Warhammer Fantasy
Sam - I still have my original copy of Clue: The Museum Caper from the 1980s. I love it so much I kept it all these years.
Although Tom and Zee hit most of the high lights I think you missed a couple:
Scrabble. It basically defined word games.
Acquire. Possibly the father of euro games.
And on the games mentioned, the only one I missed being on the list is Ticket to Ride.
It is the one game, that after I introduced it, had the most people that went on and bought it afterwards. Even my mom bought a copy for herself after playing it.
I understand that it might not have introduced anything new, but I believe its simplicity attracted a whole bunch of new people into the hobby, and this makes it important.
Hmm the Monopoly info appears to be the Dead of Winter info - Monopoly wasn't designed in 2014 by Jonathan Gilmour and Isaac Vega, taking 100 minutes! Check around 35:00 mark
Offtopic note about who invented flight, that I as a Brazilian felt obliged to mention: Look up who was Santos Dummond, the man behind the first flight actually witnessed by someone other than himself (of themselves) in the case of the Wright Brothers...
I don't know how, but Zees face at about 48:44 needs to be a part of Catans box art, ads, etc.
This Top 10 brought to you by Virgil's Sodas and Root Beers ;)
Also, I think the term Sam was looking for to describe his #9 pick is Asymmetrical. One person playing against several others and both sides having different objectives.
I think you used the wrong template on the Monopoly Designer / Publisher lol! Great vid! Just FYI if you didn't notice it
18:03 - Doesn't chess has deterministic combat? And it's not like we see that kind of combat that often, more often than not there is a luck element to resolving combat.
Ok it has to be said, Dominion is not the first game that introduced deck building mechanic as part of the game. In early magic there were a game style called Rochester draft, where people were building their decks from a common card pool.
What about Oware (I think it is the oldest) or some other type of Mancala game. If I remember correctly they were the first games to have something resembling a board, and we still use the mancala mechanic a lot in modern games.
all great games, but the one I think you missed is Scrabble: any word game is compared to Scrabble, but there are two specific mechanics that turn up in many other places:
1. drawing back up to a fixed hand size (whether of tiles or cards)
2. laying interconnecting lines (Qwirkle and Iota are two recent ones which are basically Scrabble with shapes)
THANK YOU, Zee, for putting D&D on the list, and TOM for putting it No. 1.
It just would not have been a good list without it. D&D ist important not so much for the game itself but for the HUGE impact it had on modern gaming as a whole. For 4 decades now it has established countless tropes and memes throughout gaming and pop culture.
Tom is so right here...lumping Magic and Dominion together is really dumb. These games are extremely different. The deck building in Magic is "static" (drafting aside). You do it in advance of playing the game and then it takes no actual part in the game itself. In Dominion deck-building is dynamic, it *IS* the game.
I'd put Hero Quest on the list.
Great job guys, entertaining and interesting as always....my nomination would've been maybe Shadows Over Camelot...?(I think Tom mentioned it briefly...?)
Just for the introduction to the "traitor" element?
Thoughts?
Really like how Tom and Zee would disagree on a topic about Sam...and then Sam takes credit for being "right!" Brilliant!
Nice list, but I really miss some games on it, like: Maffia/Werewolf (social deduction), Heroquest (dungeon mini's), Age of Steam (train games)... but most of all: No Citadels (role selection)? :P
I'm not sure how influential Cosmic Encounter is. Tom is the only person I ever hear talk about it.
Talk to top game designers and publishers. It's a VERY influential game. For one thing, it is one of the things that inspired Magic the Gathering!
it's cool to hear you guys talk about go, my favourite game!
Not sure if it counts but in my mind the grandfather of all party games is Twister. That said, great to have another top 10 list. A bit surprising that Axis and Allies didn't appear on Tom's list, unless I missed that part.
Is the Game of Goose not known in America? As far as I know it's the earliest example that combines moving on a board with dice rolling. First examples where made around 1600. The game is still available in stores today.
At 33:40 actually was Alberto Santos Dummont who invented the airplane
Never played Dominion before, but I would like to point out that it was Zee who said 225 years for modern games and then everything before that as ancient. If you take it that way, a game like Dominion still being talked about in another 10-20 years after it's been out for 10 is hovering around 10% of the modern gaming era. That certainly isn't a blip to ignore. In the greater scale of all gaming history, sure, but certainly for modern games I think it is definitely a powerhouse.
Magic: The Gathering is how I arrived to playing modern hobby board games.
These lists bring up a question. Is there a game timeline out there? If not, there needs to be. Would be interesting to see their release by year.
Good lists, guys. Pretty much what I spelled out apart from Magic, which is in a blind spot for me; I just don't think about it at all, but absolutely does deserve to be here. Solid lists.
"Snakes and Ladders" also is an very old and very influential game. I think it would be in or near my Top 10.
Of course Dominion has to be on that list. It created a whole new mechanism and genre!
I wonder if Small World might one day be considered for this list, based on the affect that Wil Wheaton's show has had on the hobby. Small World was the first game they played, and it reintroduced me to the hobby. I am fairly sure I am not alone in this.
Look up Vinci, it's from 1999. It is like Small World, but without the fantasy theme. Small World itself had not really been influential to other games.
Rick Sleurink True, but I am thinking of the impact on the popularity of the hobby. Table Top has been influential and Small World was the first game. Had they chosen something less engaging, might we be in a different gaming world?
Screen playa
Also true. I discovered this 'modern' kind of board gaming through Scott Nicholson long before Will and Tom & co. But I must admit that Tabletop made a huge impact on me, seeing the game actually played, instead of 'just' an opinion. Now I'm hooked on the Dicetower, Tabletop, Spellslingers and well... the list is growing, so is the hobby!
I disagree. I agree Tabletop has had a big impact, but Small World does not deserve a place on this list. In My opinion, although I really like it, tabletop and its influence is just slightly overrated.
I also disagree. Possibly I'm biased because Smallworld is one of my least favorite games, but it is certainly heavily influenced on its own by its predecessor Vinci and even farther back games like Risk and Axis & Allies. I can't really think of a single game that exists and can trace its roots directly to Small World.
I agree with Tom and Sam on Dominion as one of the most influential games because it was/is the pillar of the entire deck building genre.
Totally agree with the MTG, Catan, and Cosmic influences...I would have rather lumped all the older, chess, go, etc. into a single group, or just said, obviously they all are influencing games so we won't go there...:) From a REALLY modern gaming standpoint, would you think something like a Golem Arcana will be a future influence from the innovative app/gaming hybrid mechanic, or was there something that did that before?
Great stuff (long time lurker; A&A, D&D, Wadjet player - and if you can tell me how to actually play that last gorgeously produced game: Huzzah!).
A piece like this screams out for a final predictive segment.
As in: which upcoming, new or unreleased, game X with "new mechanics" Y will be influential for Z reasons... What's the new paradigm, or a movement in that direction?
Best, Chris.
I'm really surprised that Pandemic didn't feature on this list - Zee even mentioned it as a joke. But seriously, while it wasn't the first co-op to the party, I don't see how ANYONE could deny the impact this game has had to the co-op genre. It literally exploded after this game hit.
D&D, Magic, Settlers of Catan, poker, Monopoly, Chess - these would all have been on mine too.
I feel that I have decent knowledge in games but you guys really opened my eyes. My list would be so different after watching this then before. I can't agree with you guys more on all your lists.
1830 should be considered for really starting/popularizing the whole train game craze.
And company share concept
Monopoly: year 2014?? I think that's a typo as I remember playing it in the 80s and it just went on and on lol
Monopoly was 1930s, invented by Charles Darrow and bought from him by Parker Brothers.
I had a feeling it was a really old game - I remember playing it in the 80s lol
And published by plaid hat games? That's also wrong :p
nevermind the year, it's now published by Days of Wonder? really? surely a typo ;)
I didn't notice that - I must of looked away and just noticed the year hahahaha I'm sure Monopoly is now Hasbro?
Is the bottle an ad?
There are a few more than three ames older than 250 years: chess (and relatives - shatranj, shoji, xiangqi, etc), checkers, go, backgammon, parcheesi, senet, royal game of Ur, rithmomachy, dominoes, cribbage, mancala, hnefstafl, fox and geese, aware, morris, dreidel... plus many, many card games.
Most of the area control games before El Grande were wargames, but would you consider Die Macher?
i had a question. so im designing a game but i realized that the name that i had in mind is taken by a game that is already out. It is a different game and has different mechanics than the game with the same name. Also its on boardgamegeek and its like in the 600s-700s in terms of ranking. Would i still be able to use the name or do i have to go with a different name?
Name it whatever you want. Tons of games use the same names....just don't copy the mechanics of the game in question - there is some legal scrutiny over copyright mechanics.
right cool yea i just wanted to know whether itd be a copyright issue if the name was the same
i enjoyed watching the Video. But I think that Rommé (or Rummy how you would call it) has to be mentioned. Because this was the first game that brought up the idea to collect sets or rows to win a game. Even modern games like Catan or Ticket to Ride are using this mechanic.
kinda surprised to not see ticket to ride anywhere. It has to be making around as much as catan is at this point.
I'm asking myself why have you put chess instead of chaturanga, which is its oldest ancestor, and gave rise to all variants, like chinese chess, shogi, etc?
Beatriz Karwai
Good question... though I'm not sure that precursor status necessarily equates to "most influential." Chaturanga became Chess, in much its current form, spreading from India to Persia to Europe... but it was chess, in it's essentially modern state, that most influenced similar games that followed (strategy, "unit promotion," etc).
It remains a cultural amalgam. Most changes towards modern rules occurred during the middle ages in Europe when, reflecting the rise of the church and the growing power of women, we saw the removal of a dice component (which, being based on chance, the church viewed negatively as a form of gambling). Elephants became bishops and The Vizier became The Queen (reflecting the rise of powerful queens, Eleanor of Aquitaine, etc). And The Rook, who started as a chariot became a knight (though we still use the original Arabic word for chariot - "Ruk" - to refer to the piece).
Something I've always found intriguing about the development of chess is that it's explicit portrayal of societal roles was always a few centuries ahead of reality... The idea of pawn promotion, for instance, predates the queen/vizier swap (you could promote a pawn to vizier, who could then only move one space, until he was supplanted by The Queen). The queen, then, became the most powerful piece on the board long before most women in society, apart from select European queens, gained any real power. But the idea that "a peon," a pawn, could rise above his or her station first developed around the 9th C... long before that was in any way possible in the real world.
BTW, though I was born and raised in Boston, I spent much of my formative years in south-east Asia, primarily India, and have an abiding respect for the culture.
Would DnD represent the 4X genre? Or was that category missed? They joked about Twilight Imperium, but I was surprised the 6-8hr games weren't talked about...
I'd like to see a top ten travel-friendly games. I recently went on a cruise with my wife and we brought along the game, Hive. Got me thinking about other games that travel well.
Is Monopoly really published by Days of Wonder?
One could argue the pips in Backgammon are Action Points, no?
No, because different players get different action points based on dice they roll? Then why not say snakes and ladders has action points? :) Roll and move is different than action points.
Dice Tower Chess is from India, homey. Every continent has had their influence on the game however (see "en passant"). Shogi is a cool Japanese version where you get to use the pieces that you capture. Chess has so many cool variants to it (Suicide Chess, Chess 960, Bughouse Chess).
Interesting top ten, but also highly undefinable. While some were obvious some were not. I personally would have included ticket to ride, the list was influential games not necessarily innovative... And I feel this has had a huge influence on the hobby.
I'd love to through out Tafl games as being very influential (such as Hnefatafl). Many historians agree they probably influenced modern chess and they are the earliest form of asymmetrical game I'm aware of. While I'm not surprised they didn't make anyone's list seeing as they aren't as popular today, I just wanted to give a shout out for those who also had their inner nerd excited by this list. I only know of Hnefatafl due to my Norwegian ancestry, but it's a great game none the less. I would place it up there with chess and go as classics, check it out if you're interested.
My list
1) Senet
2) Dungeons and Dragons
3) Monopoly
4) Catan
5) Poker
6) Chess
7) Dominoes
8) Diplomacy
9) Yahtzee
10)Magic the Gathering
11) Snakes and Ladders
Settlers of Catan is the board game that got me into the massive world of modern board gaming and I love it. I can also understand Sam's reason as to why he dislikes the game. There's just some games that don't stick with you, especially when you discover better and funner alternatives. So to hate Sam's opinion -which probably is just a misunderstanding on his stance on the game- on Catan is sorta weird and really illogical in the end.
Tons of people hate that game. After a while, it's dry as hell. Still a great game to intro people into the hobby. That alone gives it staying power.
Some definite influential games mentioned there. I worked in a games shop from 94 to 02 and can backup those comments/recommendations. However Games Workshop needs to be thrown into the mix, whether we consider fantasy, 40k or side games like Blood Bowl. In short miniatures gaming. This extrapolates across to games like Hero Quest (By MB licensing).
Between RPG's (Mainly D&D), Miniature Gaming (GW) and Magic the Gathering, we stayed in business (Those three would have been about 70% of revenue). Commercially wise, games like Catan done ok, but their biggest benefit was bringing people into other board games of the time (So Influential gateway game).
I'd mention Axis and Allies as it's what got me into gaming back in the 80's, but I agree it was Risk Advanced and if Risk is mentioned it's technically covered.
Anyway, great list Dice Tower Team.
I like the way Sam did his list. Obviously the "classics" influenced today's games. But he's more specific. I like that.
I cannot believe none of you mentioned the oldest and most popular board game in the world: backgammon. Perhaps the original board game, the original roll the dice and move your men game, played daily the world over. Adding the element of chance by relying on the roll of the dice, backgammon is more influential on modern board games than either Go or chess. Backgammon, my dudes. Backgammon for the win.
Omitted: Diplomacy, Mafia/Werewolf. I think those two games have introduced some revolutionary mechanics and have an ongoing legacy, if not individual staying power.
next time for cards maybe just list Hoyles. Deteministic combat and negotiation Cosmic Encouter? think Diplomacy did both those far earlier and probably more influentially.