Dvorak was a mistake..
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2024
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After typing on many different keyboard layouts, I've come to the conclusion that Dvorak wasn't a mistake, but learning Dvorak is a mistake. Qwerty is a mistake, that we are forced to live with.
studies have shown almost no benefit to Dvorak over qwerty.
keeping qwerty for more than typing is where we failed.
Dvorak is the epitome of confirmation bias.
All the "studies" that show superiority of Dvorak were produced by... Dvorak.
Yes, technological inertia is real, but the claimed gains of Dvorak are simply untrue; if they were it would have naturally replaced Qwerty.
I mean, qwerty was designed so typewriters don’t break their typewriters or whatever.
@@nobbyfirefly57 This was only part of the design criteria and is over-emphasised by Dvorak company.
I unlearned dvorak, after 10 years, and after a few weeks, I'm surprised to find that Qwerty doesn't feel any less comfortable than Dvorak. It turns that out all I needed to do was to learn to touch type properly ;-).
The killer application is Vim, which feels incredible when you are using the keyboard layout it was designed for.
OHH YEAH, that was my biggest throwback, it’s so weird trying yo type in vim with the dvorak layout
Interesitng, I am in the process of trying to learn vim motions on qwerty and from the first second it seemed like it was designed for anything but qwerty.
@@kejtos5 the killer with vim and Dvorak is having hjkl not contiguous anymore, mostly
I personally disagree. I find qwerty just feels like throwing your fingers all over.
Not really. Qwerty is objectively awful by every measurement. It is left hand heavy. The placement of characters is random and overuses certain fingers. It's awful. But I use it because it's the default.
I undid DVORAK a few days ago and it's eye opening. 10 words per minute make you not want to do anything, you don't want to open a file, you don't want to scroll up and down, you don't even want to think.
come on, really?
use the shell then, learn keys to navigate (or even use a modal editor), you can type everything
@someman7 shell, Emacs, mouse, modal... you forget your name at 10 wpm, brain is 98% on typing
@@theodorealenas3171 Oh sorry, I misunderstood. You're saying how hard it is to be switching layouts, how it occupies too much of your mental capacity. For some reason I thought you said you typed too fast on Dvorak and were too lazy to do anything else.
I quit games for a year purely due to discouragement when I bought a new keyboard with a different size and layout. Having to suffer through the mechanical struggle of playing after I had been so comfortable for so many years was really jarring lol
@@thefaisman8956 That feels like you're absolutely overreacting. Switching keyboards sucks, but you get used to it within a week or so, even if you really struggle.
The thing about using other people's keyboards is... I never fucking do apart from what? 2 times a year? I'm not going to sacrifice my hand for that.
I take it you've never worked in an office that does open desks then (which is the norm in Australia)
@@ZM-dm3jg i have. Now it's home office
@@ZM-dm3jgthat sounds terrible
Colemak-DH is generally speaking the best alternative layout in my opinion. The only "problem" with it is that it's kind of geared towards the ortholinear keyboards, but I use the Corne anyway so it's perfect
Best “common” layout maybe. Have you compared it to Engrammer for programming purposes?
There are almost as many keyboard layouts as js frameworks 😂. For me, since I already use QMK, I just made my own keyboard layout, exactly for my needs. Nobody is touching my corne/lily anyway, everybody i've shown it to looked at me as if i was a wizard.
Using Colemak DH ISO on a standard ISO keyboard and it's great, the angle mod makes it very comfortable compared to more traditional layouts.
I would not want to use an ANSI keeb though!
I use it on a iris. Beautiful layout.
Colemak-DH is not the best alternative layout. There are a lot of newer alternative keyboard layouts that are objectively better than Colemak-DH like Graphite and Semimak-JQ just to name a few.
If you go back and forth a couple times it gets a lot easier to switch. I ended up having my split keyboard typing colemak and type qwerty everywhere else. My hands seem to remember which to type based on the staggered keys
A COUPLE? How come you didn't learn your lesson after switching back the first time?
@@theodorealenas3171 what he means is going back and forth during the day. I do the same. I type at 110wpm on colemak dh, and 80-90wpm on qwerty. Its like being multilingual, just make sure you expose yourself to both consistently.
@JulianGoddard do you have any recommended layouts to try? Personally with programming I find way too much reliance on the right hands pink and index fingers that it makes traditional home row typing rather strenuous for coding extended periods of time. I have always kind of naturally moved my hands around sort of like 3-4 finger touch typing.
On a much lesser scale, I have the same feeling switching between Mac and Windows. My brain usually remembers which hotkeys are the right ones.
Dvorak helped me to get rid of bad habits with qwerty. The thing is how often do you use other people’s keyboards, in my case is almost never so I will keep using it with custom layers for symbols as well
Yep. With layers, all the problems Prime describes disappear
Could you elaborate on what your bad habits were?
Exactly. When I use other peoples keyboards, I honestly add the Dvorak keyboard once and then switch it back to QWERTY when I'm done and then whenever I use that person's keyboard, I'm ready every time.
i have amniotic band syndrome that mostly affects my hands, for most of my life i just never learned to type properly and it was really starting to fuck with my hands and wrists a couple of years ago. i actually did end up learning to touch type on QWERTY for a year and it helped but i found it was still pretty painful some days, especially on the left hand. learned about Dvorak and haven't gone back since. the thing with Dvorak is it lets your fingers move A LOT less, you jump around rows way less often, and because it moves all the vowels to one side pretty much every (English) word is spelt using both hands.
I can switch fluently between colemak-dh and qwerty. It's really not that hard if you just spend a bit of time swapping back and forth. So I have my comfort in my own place and still am perfectly capable of using any other keyboard out there
Colemak dh with a symbol macro layer...
Only the horrible placement of hjkl for vim kinda sucks. Some correctly placed arrow keys in a layer make it okay, but I still find ich kinda annoying
@@be_cracked8212tbh I don't find it very annoying as you rarely use hjkl anyway when using vim properly
I think you missed the point of the video. He's saying that QWERTY is bad especially for symbols, but ergonomic layouts (in his case, Dvorak, but that also applied to Colemak) are a mistake because you're no longer fluent on QWERTY that is used everywhere, which makes it more difficult to work with other people.
@@Varpie I do disagree with that. At least when you combine it with another kind of keyboard. Columnar and split for me (and I think for prime as well). On normal staggered keyboards I still use QUERTY. I always long for my ergo keyboard with Colmak, but I can still hit 60-70 wpm comfortably. Which is more than good enough for the few times I need to use them.
@@be_cracked8212you can rebind hjkl in vim, I actually have my movements on wasd :D
The trick is to learn Colemak/Dvorak on a different kind of keyboard. I do Colemak on grid and ortho-linear keyboards, and QWERTY on horizontally staggered keyboards.
I recently got a kinesis keyboard and even though I never got particularly good at dvorak, my brain at first kept defaulting to the dvorak keys ( I think because I had to think about where the keys where and my brain was used to dvorak when thinking about it rather than using muscle memory?) Interesting stuff
I was using Dvorak for 7 years.
I unlearned it 1 month ago when I decided to go with neovim as my main editor. The thought of learning every keybing in dvorak was just too overwhelming, and the only alternative to that was complete remapping, which is even more daunting.
I needed solid 2 days for transition because I was typing 10 words per minute, but now I feel functional again.
Although Qwerty indeed does not feel as nice as Dvorak when typing, the benefit of being able to use any keyboard is refreshing.
But the keybinds are based on words, not really positions. Apart from hjkl but you can set a simple layer like Alt+[hjkl]
@zyriab5797 This is exactly the kind of thing that I struggled with when I was using Dvorak. You CAN adapt pretty much everything to be dvorak friendly. Simple layer of alt + hjkl, simple update of config here, simple update of config there, simple remaping of hitkeys in this videogame, simple setting up of dvorak layout on girlfriend's laptop before doing some troubleshooting ect ect ect.
It's not much, but it's also not zero cost.
There is something to be said for the benefit of being able to use any machine right out of the box.
Add to that the fact that Vim has a high enough barrier to entry without a custom keyboard layout. Can I guarantee that my adaptation to use dvorak with neovim won't clash with some plugin that I would want to use in the future? Maybe or maybe not, but you do have to think about such things.
For me, switching back to the Qwerty allowed me to go through Vim manual without backhanded thoughts about adaptation to another layout.
Overall, I think it was a positive change for me
Neovim keybinds are fine on dvorak
Moved from Belgian AZERTY to Colemak DH ISO (angle mod), I found the letters ergonomics way better (the angle mod played a big role).
As for the symbols, BE AZERTY has them mostly on the numbers row but you have to use Alt Gr. sometimes which is not great at all and press shift to use the numbers which I hate. Learning all the symbols as they are placed on US QWERTY was an interesting experience and made me realize why such and such symbol were used so much in programming.
I'm going to transition to a Sofle split ergo keeb layer this month and can't wait to move towards a symbols layer under my fingers!
put ctrl where caps lock is. Improves left wrist strain
As any Emacs person would tell you to do (Vim people would tell you to put Esc there instead)
@stefanalecu9532 as a vim person myself I just like to hit c-[ to enter normal mode, idk I just find it more ergonomic.
I remap to UU in (n)vim. It’s the least frequent letter that is accessible from the right-hand home row (I use left shift) and I’ve not once had insert mode go back to normal mode by accident by needing to type out ‘UU’. And if that case ever does happen the first U press times out after a second.
actually just adapted from hhkb layout. at least that L ctrl
@@stefanalecu9532Both. Tap for caps lock for , hold for . I set my keyboard up like this and now hate every other keyboard.
Luckily you never had to code on a German Qwertz keyboard. No idea why I didn't switch to US Querty earlier.
Alt-Gr 😂
makes every single laptop lettering wrong. no way im googling how ill enter the § sign
Looks better than coding on AZERTY ?
This is the reason I just switched to a neo2 based layout called 'noted'.
Now I can type " »«„“ " ' … äöü ẞ ñ ♦♥♠♣ {}()[] " and even greek letters "αβγδθψφ" and mathematical symbols "ℤℂΣ∀∃∈Δ∇⊆Γ⇐⇔⇒" relatively easy just by shifting to a different layer.
@@anonymouscommentatorEvery single keyboard lettering is wrong with any other design than the one it was printed for.
Watching this short is my mistake
I use minimak-8 - it's almost as good as colemak but with less changes compared to qwerty (only 8), so it keeps most of the hotkeys.
I also have custom symbol layout with it, so I agree that it's probably even more important for coding
Thats why you buy an ergo keyboard you can customize the layout, layers, etc. Qwerty is way less ergonomic and efficient than dvorak...
Which he has. Prime just has bad takes lately
i don't know what to do it's been 3 years since i'm using Dvorak and i'm currently on 110 wpm but i'm facing a problem where i have to install Dvorak on every computer i use even if i use it only once (school , work) and i don't know if i should keep using Dvorak or just switch to azerty
Yeah, been there. Still worth learning dvorak for me, though, as it got me to appreciate home row and never looking down. I brought this with me back to qwerty.
You couldn't homerow on qwerty, so you picked up Dvorak? What in tarnation are they teaching you kids
@@tswan137 I grew up with a keyboard with labeled caps, many years before they taught kids to use computers. Also, the reason I picked up dvorak wasn't that I couldn't home row, it's that I thought it would be faster (despite all top speed typists using qwerty).
@@tswan137I came here to say the same thing lol. I find it funny when people think "typing fast/efficiently" comes from a new layout... It does not, it comes from practice.
The German 'Neo' Layout family fixed this issue amazingly, by moving symbols into the character area with the otherwise completely unecessary caps as the modifier.
Makes it agnostic of the actual character layout one uses.
Boosting this!
As an Australian I grew up programming on 8bit computers with British keyboards. When moved across to IBM had to relearn to US Keyboards which makes more sense since we use $ as our currency.
It’s just minor changes but I still feel to this day just removing “ as Shift 2 completely slowed down my programming.
"Your pinky"
Prime is a secret Emacs user I can't believe he'd do us like this
Jokes aside use whatever works for you I can't tell you how much time I spent weighing each of them up lmao
what is the name of displayed layout?
No way I’d unlearn Dvorak. Typing rhythm sequences like “the” and “its” is so satisfying. Every word congeals to home row. Prime is bonkers.
You must not be a programmer.
I'm a programmer and I still find the magic of Dvorak's homerow extremely satisfying. I even like Dvorak's symbol layout much better than Qwerty.
Once upon a time I learned Dvorak touch typing on a qwerty keyboard. Since I was working as a computer support and going to many different computers, I could also touch type qwerty if I was looking down. I didn't need to see the keys just look towards them. I decided after awhile that constantly setting up and switching keyboard layouts was a pain, so just went back to the default qwerty. Now I'm using the Kinesis advantage 360 and now regular keyboards feel odd and a little painful if holding my fingers on the home row, but I have figured it how to use them good enough with my fingers diagonally across the keyboard using my 3d spatial awareness of where fingers and keys are. Probably all to say that humans are adept at adapting.
do you use HJKL for arrow keys in VIM? or do you use the dvorak equivalent? how does dvorak effect your VIM keybinds?
I use VIM and Dvorak, and the keys it remaps to are surprisingly comfortable, and you also get used to where your shortcuts are. If you’re good enough at typing then you’re splitting hairs on speed and the only difference becomes which layout you convince yourself you like more. It doesn’t really matter.
I have difficulty remembering JCVP for the arrow keys, and I typically opt for the arrow keys instead. Other than that, maybe some of the keybinds that include a CTRL + a key on the left side of the keyboard would be slightly slower for me to enter, but that's because of my physically small laptop keyboard with a tiny right CTRL key.
Dvorak layout doesn't really affect the vast majority of vim keybinds for me.
I use Dvorak and just kept the keybindings the same. It's really not that bad.
I never used Dvorak, and the only reason was because on the Qwerty I was writing much faster than I could process the things I had been putting into the text...
My thoughts were (and to be honest, are, haha...) slower than my typing speed...
colemak-dh is the best keybaord
German QWERTZ keyboard has entered the chat 😄
Shortcuts like "Ctrl + (" are the bane of my existence when I use software from america and such. "/" is ok, I got that one on it's own on the numpad but "("... come on! 🥴
Use Extend layers!
Hmm. I've been using Neo Bone and it has been great, as it uses layers to access symbols
I don't like any keys on that top row.
I think the main issue here isn't about Dvorak itself, but about unlearning QWERTY at the same time. I had the same issue, and working on remote machines was a pain, but after a few weeks of having to switch on a daily basis, I'm not as fast but still able to type comfortably on QWERTY.
Skill issue
😂
100%. He has a $400 keyboard just remap shit idiot.
🤣
Agreed
I love french Azerty (I'm Belgian) and the symbols are pretty evenly spread. All the brackets are under 2 keys. You use shift/ctrl/alt/cmd/whatever to go from braces to curly braces to brackets.
Strange. I'm stuck with it and find it terrible. You can't even write French properly with it.
@@NorthernChimp I like that I can type )}] simply by using nothing, option or shift+option. shift & option are super ergo for my left hand, the )° is easy for my right. Perfect combo for me. But it's all personal preference. For me it works, I'm used to it and since I'm flemish belgian I don't have the issues with writing French as I don't do it often.
You did it once, you can do it again. We are so here for ya!
Dvorak was designed for typing English text, not programming. There are new layouts out there that are designed for programmers.
Yup but you need to write a lot of docs and socialize so… ;p
Like Engrammer!
@@adrien-barretlayers
I really Like how the german Keyboard is.
All Symbols are on the Shift top row.
I never knew there was more different between qwertz and qwerty
@@MrSofazockerthat‘s wrong. ,_,-,+ and others are not on the front row.
On my laptop, number keys also make me move the wrist a lot, so maybe it depends on the keyboard.
Do keys *need* to be so tall and wide?
My reason for switching back to QWERTY a few days ago is that Greek doesn't have DVORAK, so changing layouts was a real pain. Mainly because the dot and Ctrl+C moved around. DVORAK wasn't the best idea I've had in my life.
One thing I hate about coding with a non-english keyboard is that special characters aren't in the same places, and they're not standardized, so the keys are different on my work keyboard, my home keyboard, and my laptop, even though they are all qwerty.
How did you end up with three varieties? Two isn't hard to imagine, but three is "decided to pick up a keyboard at an airport along the way" territory to me.
The one thing I really hate about US keyboards, is the shape of the enter key. And Windows really loves a US keyboard layout. It doesn't matter how many times I delete it, it keeps reinstalling it and randomly switching to it.
@@mascot4950 Its probably randomly switching to it because windows' default, for some fucking reason, is to change keyboard and/or language on ctrl+shift and alt+shift. Google how to turn off these shortcuts and you won't have to deal with windows switching keyboards seemingly randomly.
You can still switch with Windows+Space so I don't see the reason for these shortcuts to exist in the first place.
How have i been watching this stuff for this long and never knew you were dvorak? I learned on a lark when my manager at a job i hated swapped keyboard layouts on my machine as an april fools prank. I eventually swapped back because i hated rebinding keys for every new game i played.
Whoa, you’re a Dvorak typist and use VIM as your daily driver?! What keybinds do you use? (Fellow Dvorak Chad here…but honestly, sometimes wish I could unlearn it ha)
Have you tried Programmer's Dvorak which switches around the symbols and numbers too?
I've used Dvorak for 15 or so years now and the transformation from when I used QWERTY was extremely noticeable. I don't tend to use other people's keyboards anyway so not really a big driver for me.
I learned dvorak, then bought a corne keyboard, then made my own keyboard layout based on dvorak for spanish, programming and my corne. Then I had a regular qwerty at my job.
I can still touchtype, but not as fast, not as comfortably. It not being ortholinear, row staggered or split gives me some physical pain, and i find myself sometimes thinking about the keyboard instead of the code. In my corne, my fingers just flow, and I'm focused on work, not on the keyboard.
Now I bought a lily58, and i'll tune my layout for the extra keys 😀 i don't want to use a regular qwerty again, it's like discovering sum types and pattern matching, and then going back to java 1.6...
Always hesitated to learn Dvorak for that exact reason. Also, I typically type in 3 languages each week, so I guess it wouldn't never be totally optimal..
Norman is the best layout. Increased efficiency + famipiar enough to not break global shortcuts
Scandinavian keyboards, you have to shift to type brackets (both square, and squirly)
When i got my Ergodox I simultaneously switched to Colemak.
The learning curve took a bit, but i learned it.
Now I can't type on a qwerty.
I have a symbol layer, but the symbols on number row are still the same.
I did the same thing switching to 60% layouts and find it awesome to give myself options
Or use a split board with a layer for symbols and use a thumb button to activate that layer
Yall using keyboards with anything but a space by your thumbs?!
Wow. Here I’ve been wondering if I should’ve gone Dvorak
I like it
The qwerty was made to slow you down. It worked
For Lisp, Dvorak actually looks nice
There was a time where I used dvorak and colemak, and got pretty decent, but I gave up because of how integrated qwerty is with everything, how difficult it was to change every key mapping in every program, and because i've used qwerty so long that it'll take me forever to get colemak or dvorak up to my 140wpm. Aside from that, they definitely feel more comfy to type on, and produce fewer errors
Btw, VIM was designed at a QWERTY era, the key biddings hjkl there in a single row, muscle memory is a thing, but the 🧠 can do wonders in neuroplasticity and learn, or unlearn things. Best of luck Prime, I wish you a safe trip back to QWERTY, the VIM home land. 😆
For me problem is with p on the pinky, so I decided to remap it to ring finger, and everything just works...
I come from classical music background and I completeley misunderstood the title of this video at first... thought you would say that the composer himself was a mistake 😅
Funny how different fields can use the same words but with different meanings
So Colemak?
Or am I not understanding what Prime is describing?
Colemak-DH has been my preferred for 4 years... Longer on my phone.
How do you even use vim with Dvorak?
DVORAK WAS *NOT* A MISTAKE DONT YOU _EVER_ SAY THAT
Have you tried Colemak?
What's this new layout called
Honestly this... if you become useless just because you're on a new computer or device - learning a standard that has dubious arguments proclaiming near unmeasurable performance increases.... it's likely you're just learning bad habits instead of improving your process.
It would be nice to have a better layout and for that to be the standard, but I haven't found one that actually justifies the performance gains yet, and getting grandma to switch off of qwerty isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
Which keyboard layout is being shown on this short?
The bottom one is the standard Dvorak, the top one is a custom Dvorak with the symbols place on the number row.
I use other peoples keyboards all the time, and it's really hard when symbols like [\]@{|} aren't where my fingers expect, with Apple being paeticularly obnoxious about not labeling keys at all .
I switch from qwerty to dvorak and i feel better because u use more fingers for common letters than on qwerty
SAMEE
Or just buy a Kinesis Advantage2 😉
Which doesn't fix a whole lot in the grand scheme of things except you have to get used to a huge ass keyboard that makes you look like an alien
@@stefanalecu9532 It does fix something, as it uses different positioning for the keys. There is less overlap in muscle memory when you use different positioning for different layouts.
I agree that it's not necessary to go for such a big keyboard though. There are much smaller keyboards that provide the same advantage.
Any love for Colemak? Thats what I've been using for 10 years.
I've been using the Dvorak with QWERTY commands layout to code on Mac without considering to switch.
Now I consider unlearning Dvorak and relearning QWERTY because I started using Windows and struggle with shortcuts and switching layouts to type while gaming.
just disable autohotkey while in game
Colemak is great for programmers I think where Dvorak is great for people that write prose. The symbols and keyboard shortcuts are just too important to use a layout that prioritizes prose.
Coleman-dh gang here. On a custom keyboard though, so symbols do not apply to me. The main problem I had were the basically unusable positions of hjkl. I have a layer with arrows keys in the correct places so it's fine, but something to consider
@be_cracked8212 I've been using colemak for about 9 years and vi since the 90's. When I switched layouts, I just kept using hjkl in their new locations. Seems weird to think about, but I got used to it, and it just feels normal now.
Why not Engrammer for programming?
Only problem is that I have to relearn how to type
What video is this from?
Weird, i use default keyboards and my right hand is easily the least used hand when it comes to typing. You know theres multiple ways to hit all those keys, right??
It's not just the symbols, although sure. Qwerty has many issues. The big one is not switching hands between keys. This will cause repetitive stress injuries. The µ-break you get between keys by switching hands per most characters is a huge boon to your good health. So no, it's not just the symbols Prime.
crying and writing this with qwertz while watching this
I mean, I learned touch typing on Dvorak, and I can still use qwerty on occasion. Just slightly improve your qwerty skills if you need that, and keep using dv at home and on your machines.
Of course, I use Emacs; I don't understand how somebody can put up with using vim with Dvorak. 😂
I only have to use somebody's keyboard once every one hundred days, so no I will stick with Dvorak.
Install a Dvorak driver on their machine for when you use it. Happy days will follow. ;)
@@chokocat9064 dvorak is already pre-installed in almost every OS in existing, it only the time you spend going to the setting is what bothering a bit. it can be achieved with one command on linux though, not sure about mac. (pretty sure there is a command in powershell but to lazy to memorize it).
Skill issue. Use your $400 keyboard and remap it.
I use Dvorak and have my own keymaps. No problem.
Comprehension issue. Watch the video again, he's not complaining about Dvorak keymaps.
Clearly a skill issue on your part, since you didn't get the message.
ngl i dont switch my right hand from my mouse i type one handed/ whos gonna make e and my fellow companions a keyboard layout
There are one handed variations of many where you put your hand in the middle of the keyboard. Google one hand dvorak
Colemak is great!
My main problem with all these alternatives layouts as a french speaking dev is that I must use accents which are also on the right pinkie.
It is really hard to come with a solution that combine accessibility to symbols AND éèêàâç (and occasionally ï and ë) and such. It's only 3 modifiers, but man they are used a lot when writing non-code.
A solution would be a layer to code and a layer to write prose, but I have yet to found a 75% layout that supports layers. Any suggestions gang?
Have you looked into bépo?
Same here, I searched for a keyboard making sense, with keys for a handful of combining modifiers instead of a ton of extra so-called "characters", but that doesn't seem to exist on Earth.
The best thing is that all germans write with qwertz not qwerty.
Or you can use a CharaChorder One if you are going to relearn how to type, and it wont interfere with your current keeb muscle memory
I've watched it twice to be sure what I hear... Next short will be about unlearning vim?
Haha same here, still not sure tho...is he gonna go BACK to qwerty?
I am proficient at qwerty and dvorak. I prefer dvorak. I now use an ergodox with dvorak and custom symbols. Primes right on symbols. Ngl, copy paste is nice on qwerty.
That's because copy/cut/paste was designed for the Qwerty. But you do have to leave the home row for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
try a swedish keyboard layout! the symbol layout is way worse than ordinary qwerty, since they need to fit the extra characters åäö
This is the problem with all languages that use diacritics. Why are they treated as extra characters? They're not. Bring back the compose key, or just put the accents (or other modifiers) in Alt Gr position.
@@NorthernChimp because they are new characters linguistically. that’s an issue most english speakers have when they try to learn swedish. they never attempt to learn the alphabet and instead just ignore all diacritics. they aren’t accents or modifiers, they’re functionally entirely different characters that just happen to have similar glyphs
also, are we supposed to add a key for the ring over å? then we’re back to square one. and if not, imagine if some of the vowels in english required four key presses instead of one. altGr + whatever key the ° is put on + compose key + a. it’d just be frustrating!
yAltGr+^+uu wAltGr+^+uuld grAltGr+^+uw tired very quickly
@@asdfghyter Are you sure? Although I can't read it directly, I can see the Swedish Wikipedia article about "Omljud" is better written than the English one. They are modified vowels, linguistically as well as graphically.
Of course, ° in Swedish always occurs over the same letter. But look at the key just right of your å: no need for Ctrl+Alt+Shift to type a ¨. Wouldn't you do with some symbols below-left of there?
@@NorthernChimp they are certainly nothing like accents at least. the article you refer to is not about the diacritics themselves, but rather a different behavior that can sometimes introduce them. if you look at the examples, they include things like lus->löss, which is clearly not just diacritics modifying a vowel.
and this is not the only way that the letters with diacritics can be introduced, there are many words that use these letters in their basic form and never remove the diacritics. for example “bar”, “bår”, “bär”, “bor” and “bör” are all completely unrelated words meaning “barren”, “stretcher”, “berry”, “lives” and “should” respectively
you are however correct in that they are not unrelated to the same letter without a diacritic phonetically. but all vowels are related to each other phonetically. there are three main dimensions for a vowel sound: back/front, open/closed, rounded/unrounded. you can describe all vowels as a combination of these three and you can move from one vowel to another by moving along one of these dimensions. so the ö and ä are indeed more open versions of o and a, while å is a more rounded version of “a”, but “e” is a more open version of “i” and we don’t write that with a diacritic
@@NorthernChimp they are certainly nothing like accents at least. the article you refer to is not about the diacritics themselves, but rather a different behavior that can sometimes introduce them. if you look at the examples, they include things like lus->löss, which is clearly not just diacritics modifying a vowel.
and this is not the only or even the main way that the letters with diacritics can be introduced, there are many words that use these letters in their basic form and never remove the diacritics. for example “bar”, “bår”, “bär”, “bor” and “bör” are all completely unrelated words meaning “barren”, “stretcher”, “berry”, “lives” and “should” respectively
you are however correct in that they are not unrelated to the same letter without a diacritic phonetically. but all vowels are related to each other phonetically. there are three main dimensions for a vowel sound: back/front, open/closed and rounded/unrounded. you can get from any vowel to any other by moving among these dimensions. the ° overring makes the “a” rounded, while the ◌̈ diaeresis makes the a or o more open.
historically, these letters came from ligatures from pairs of vowels that together made that sound. if you look at the wikipedia articles for the respective letters å, ä and ö, you can read more about it
"Devorak" 😂
Yes, his name was Americanised and this is the correct pronunciation, not like the composer.
Different layouts are optimal for different languages.
And in this respect, programming languages are different to the underlying natural language they use.
Interestingly most languages go consonant vowel consonant vowel, thus the Dvorak tends to work quite nicely for a very large number of languages-even Japanese!
I tried to learn Dvorak a while ago but the emotional pain of 10WPM was too much, now I just use Dvorak on my phone and QWERTY while programming. (Completely different muscle memory btw.) I'm surprised prime doesn't want to use Dvorak just because of the symbols (not because of vim motions.)
Funny how you are using them on the complete opposite way.
Qwerty has been proven more optimal for typing on phone
@@2Fast4UA-cam have you tried a one haded Dvorak layout on the phone?
In Macedonian language dvorak means two handed 😀
That's very interesting!
Us ansi is nice for me. German qwertz is hell for a programmer
just use the BLOMFU keyboard layout
Ctrl+c ctrl+v is what killed dvorak for me
Everyone learn QWERTY and then in the future our AI overlords can analyze our typing and create a custom layout for us. Wouldn't be a hard program to make if you have like a year's worth of typing data. Wouldn't just want the freqnetly pressed keys, but also the order of them, and also how many seconds between presses.
COLEMAK dude
I dont really mind
Colemak for the win.
Any workman love? I learned it to type my thesis in latex and loved it tbh. I quit because QWERTY is too prolific but now I’m thinking about it again
Hard disagree. 80% of typing on Dvorak happens on the center/home row. Also, learning Dvorak doesn't wipe your memory of qwerty so it's not like you can't use a default board...
I can touch type on both and my speed on Dvorak is almost twice as high and half as annoying when having to reach for corner keys.
A truly rare bad take from Prime...
Look into Characorder, and the up coming Master Forge