Hero’s hand doesn’t really remove any of UTG’s flush combos because 8’s and 7’s aren’t in a full-ring UTG opening range, unless he’s loose and would open A8s or A7s from that position, in which case that’s only a couple combos. Basically my point is that our hand shouldn’t really factor into our evaluation of whether UTG is holding a flush by the river.
Great call in. Before the result I was expecting a KJDD or A9DD but seems very odd to have 10’s the way the hand was played out. Would you ever c/r the flop with 10’s here? Or the turn? Would be interested to know how you would consider playing this hand if you were the villain.
Villain never intended to muck top set and so he made a blocker bet on river to avoid having to call a bigger bet. Very poorly played hand, but seems like that's what he was thinking.
or possible to get value from a two pair,lower set that possibly could check when the flsuh appears (unlikely but this could have passed thru his mind),like the play isnt completely illogical,it wouldve got Bart to fold and maybe gotten called by a worst hand of the whales!!
I don’t think it’s a poor play to bet-fold top set like that. Previous streets were questionable (shouldve raised turn or flop) but the bet-fold is fine imo. The river is going to check through a decent amount of the time so he would miss quite a bit of value.
I'm not sure why we are putting the villain on diamonds because of river bet all of the sudden. If our read is right and villain only has overpairs, then why would we be worried about him having a flush? Also, from villains perspective, doesn't it look like hero has 78 or a set of 7's/8's? I would venture to guess it is a value bet on river and fold to a raise from the villain's POV.
Daniel Williams exactly! In real time before the villain hand reveal, I thought the lead was weak AF. What credible flushes does he have all of a sudden? He was turning top set into a bluff, because if hero doesn’t make a flush, he can’t call. Also from villain’s POV, hero betting into 2 people for two streets when he (villain) has top set, looks like a flopped straight.
I moved to Las Vegas 5 years ago. I played online and was successful from 2005-2011. I got cheap on training and stopped training daily. I started playing on wsop.com, and it let me know that. Completely different game. Took me a grand to learn that I am not a good online player. I’m worse at online than I am live.
Come on Bart. No-one ever folds the river. You might think your beat but its always a call. Villain played it horrible. He definitely should have check raised the turn.
Wow this was really interesting. I think in theory I like a fold and maybe wouldve done it, but whats holding me back is that if hes actually a great player I feel like sometimes great players will actually call with hands like AA, KK, QQ or even JJ with one diamond to have the ”faux flush draw” so that they can make a lead bluff excactly like this on the river when the flush completes having relevant blockers. I can see this as a viable option. AA might still rarely be good on the turn, and this faux flush draw essentially gives them more equity in the hand in terms of fold equity on the river via the bluff. Super interesting, I thought the river bet was def polarizing to a high flush or a bluff like mentioned, did not expect him to be value betting worse especially if hes a competent player.
And why I like the fold exploitatevly is because I feel not enough players would make the play with the over pairs with the flush blocker, but pretty much everyone would play the high flush combos like this.
Wow. There's no way that utg guy is a great player. What he did on the river with that hand vs you AND the fishy button player... Just seems like a horrible bet when he should be checking and praying you shut it down on the river.
Yeah. I can't really imagine a reason, even if there was a history, and the line was specific to that.Every factor described would make it better to pump money into that pot, with top set.
@@yeoleunicorn858 Yea thats what im thinking,his play isnt all that bad really if you think about it another way,he probably thinks hero might shut down when the BD flush comes in with 2 others in the pot(if hero has a set or two pair) so he bets hoping to get called by a worst hand which is very possible with whale player there,(hero wont be folding sets either i think),he only bet over half pot aswell, or maybe just a block bet,i dunno think his flop/turn play is way worst
Lol yeah no. Given the information that he is a good player, there are like no hands we beat that he’s betting for value here. Youre being very results oriented. If this guys read is right about the level of this player, this riverbet is definately polarizing and should be nuts(or close to) or air, and its hard to find logical bluffs here. Especially because not many good players would check here on the flop with a set like Bart mentioned, atleast not that often. I think I wouldve called too because im a station, but thinking about it I think you could definately fold here.
Like Hanson, I would have folded that tiny flush on the river after the large UTG bet, given all of the other information. When the Villain said that he thought hero had the nuts, I think that he meant that he thought hero had flopped a straight by holding J9, and then villain was hoping to represent a flush on the river and make him fold. Not saying that I believe it. Just saying that I think that's what he meant.
7 and 8 of diamonds is the best possible hand to rule out back door flushes. In order to have had a back door flush plus pair someone needs a 7 8 or 10 of diamonds and they are all accounted for. I think Bart is right but with This flush we have to call and hope they have TT or two pair or something else I think
i haven’t heard results yet: I would call here because of the button but if i thought or got a read that the button was folding i would jam here. edit: just listened to end so when you have a true fish in the game everything changes from what you’re used to. Fold is completely off the table it’s either raise or call.
acehole Oh how interesting, youd make the excact perfect play against villains specific holding that everyone feels he’s super unlikely to have. Raise here loses a lot of money long term, I doubt any worse hand calls a jam.
Very true Acehole, i'm surprised how many people are ignoring the dynamic of having a whale in the hand who has been calling down with any pair. A lot more hands should bet for value than normal. I thought top set was actually fairly likely, what is the villain doing this with, QQ in a three way pot? While a backdoor flush is likely for the villain it's a lot less likely that he's raising pre and then calling the flop with only a backdoor flush draw. The fact that he calls the Flop made me think top set was more likely. Ranges widen tremendously when 2 good players simultaneously try to play in a pot with a whale, and the good players will often play more passively than usual to keep the whale in.
TrollJokuMaster incorrect as the villain would be getting an amazing price to call the jam i think 5:1 but i don’t recall exactly. i wouldn’t be targeting just TT but any set and also a flopped straight. plus the inclusion of the whale means he may even have an overpair though it’s unlikely it’s more likely than a flush.
I enjoyed the analysis. As a less experienced player, why is flat calling $35 pre-flop with 7d8d (or any middle suited connector) in middle position incorrect, while folding or three betting is correct? Thank you.
Off the top of my head i can think of four reasons you pretty much have to call the river and folding isn't an option. Villain could have J9, villain could have 45dd, villain could have a weirdly played set, villain could decide the diamond is a good card to bluff.
Exactly,villian could decide with those hands and TT "fck it im gonna call a bet anyway so why not lead myself,i could have best hand and this guy might even check back now with the flush out there" .I actually dont find Vs lead with the TT that bad at all,its almost a blicker bet that can get called by worst and you save money have to call a large bet by a better hand
@@Gos1234567 yeah i don't think Bart really had a chance to think through villain's line, I think not check raising the turn is sort of crazy, but if you do just flat the turn, bet folding the river is probably the best play.
I picked exactly the same bets, 100 and 300, but was torn on the river. I think that villain was indeed turning top set into a bluff and at the same time counting on BTN to call with worse hand. It does make sense.
Strange to bet top set only why a back door flush comes in? There are not many, but some hands you get value from. I think even a jam and a call would be standart.
Yeah I was thinking he could do this with a set on the river. Maybe planning to fold to a jam. He may just be afraid that the river will check through.
he probably meant that you had a set of 7 or 8 when he thought you had the nuts on the turn also, I think he played the hand bad because he should have raised the flop or the turn to get value from the whale and also from the caller who should have a lot of sets in his range calling pre flop and betting flop + turn in that situation so he should c bet or check raise to maximize ev in that spot
I think what villain meant was that he put hero on a straight and thought he could bully him off it when the flush came out. Especially considering he was shot taking. Would have been very interesting to see what he'd do if hero did have the straight. Would have been a tough call bc like you said the villain looked like he caught the backdoor on the turn. Question is did villain know the hero was shot taking and how nervous a table image he was giving off to the other players. I know if I was playing above my normal stakes I'd have a harder time making that call than at my usual level.
People are seriously thinking about folding a backdoor flush to a 1/2 pot block bet because they're scared of a backdoor overflush? Wow. Well I guess I'll keep bluffing 3-flush boards with any one card of the suit as blocker then. Most under-defended board ever.
lol yea V has to specifically have A9dd/A6dd two overcard diamonds,but does a decent player call those on the flop multiway? The old blockbet bluff with a v narrow range trick is back in style
Bart, we play together sometimes when the rooms are open in LA, but what you say on the end here makes literally no sense. The guy shouldn’t lead the river because the bd flush comes in? So what, he should just be check folding to normal bet? Because this caller is going to be betting his flush again on the end, so if the set calls that’s the same result. The only difference is you said you might fold the flush, in which case the bet can’t be bad at all. I’d be check x/r jamming top set all day on the turn, but not sure what you could mean with this.
YES!!I dont agree with Bart on this one at all,the Vs play actually does make sense.As you say he can fold out a lower flush maybe(low frequency) or even get called by a worst hand,the whale could called with worst,maybe hero calls with a set sometimes,He also maybe dint want to call a huge bet by hero,V only bet 800 into 1350,not that huge a bet. Its a kind of blocker/merge bet that makes more sense that checking,if he checks maybe a worst hand that his TT will check back for fear of the BD flushes hitting. So yea isnt Bart always saying check calling is the worst play in poker anyway;-)
I could see possibly folding due to the diamond on the river being another LOW diamond...since it reduced the number of combos of flushes that we beat. I probably still make a cry call.
I think he did it because there was no way he was folding there and the pot was almost 1400, Hero had 1565 and if he checks hero would either bet 1100+ or shove, so he block bet and wanted to save 400+
If I was UTG I’d check raise the flop and lead the turn. So many bad cards can come, for instance, the back door diamonds. Classic example of flopping top set and letting you opponent catch up and win
I was deep sea fishing once upon a time many yesteryears ago.. I hooked what I hoped was a huge fish! Only Upon landing my catch did I then realize it was an angry Shark and quite dangerous
never would have let it get to the rivr with that set. i would have hit the turn for a pot sized bet, after the flop calls.. i really expected him to have Q9 of diamonds.. made the most sense.. gutter, flush draw, over card. THAT, would make sense, with the play of that hand.. wow.. let the draws get there, and if he thought it was a weak flush ( no clue ), if he bet like $1400, pretty sure he takes it down.... great hand to see at those stakes..
I think he was bet-folding river here. I think his size was too large to get cry-called by a hand like 78hh/ss/dd or T8s. He shouldve really just check-jammed turn though IMO. He probably knew you must have a hand like 2 pair after going for it on the turn, and he was trying to get max value. You just so happened to have the only 2 pair possible here (assuming he had the ten of clubs) that also made a flush.
Flats are useful when you 1-know your opponents are not conscious to your plays 2- are capable of calling off their whole stack with very marginal hands. It allows you to hit a homer in cheap cheap cheap!
the real whale was UTG player, idk what the fuck that guy was doing in this hand, gotta x/r the turn if you don't x/r the flop obviously like come on man best player at the table?
From Villian's POV: 4 way action on a flop like that is a 100% bet out or check-raise with top set. 4 combos of J9 suited, three 89suited, three 97 suited, one 9T suited, two 87 suited, and 6 combos of pocket 9s. UTG is NOT a strong player, he took a fishy line. Called when he should've raised and bet when he should've checked. From Hero's POV: river bet is obviously value bet by a "solid player". So if hes a good player, what can you beat? AJdd, A9dd, QJdd, KJdd, Q9dd, K9dd all take this line. Either the hero is wrong about UTG being a solid player or is a fish himself. A solid player doesn't check-call twice and fires on this river with something Hero can beat.
Not true. Haven't you ever bluffed at a pot when the flush came in? You have to be confident of your hand reading and pick your opponents carefully, but it's a great play sometimes. Villain seems to have been trying to keep the whale in but got unlucky. You can't ignore the dynamic of trying to keep the whale in the pot by playing the hand in a non standard way, not sure why everyone is ignoring that aspect.
Ben Pon // Exactly. they’re both fishy. And this site is loaded with fish, too. Interesting that only couple of other comments pointed weak play of UTG on turn (UTG turn play is the key element in this entire hand). Everyone else are talking about the river. River talk would be totally irrelevant, if ever gone so far - had the UTG jammed the turn. (Instead of call). With top set, 2 opponents and their straight and flush draw on TURN a good player would’ve killed it right there.
@@pot_kivach160 Interesting that you think a player who played a hand in a way you did not expect is a fish. Wouldn't that make you the fish, since you always play all of your hands the same exact same way? Also, some staggering logic here, but if he check raises the turn and still loses, does that mean he lost because he relied on skill? After all, he would have been suitably predictable for you, right?
The entire vlog I thought pocket 10s or Js, the lead on the river screamed 10s or some suited 9 q. There is zero chance anybody, including Bart, is folding that river.
Ha, playing with someone who doesn't know the rules. The bum-hunting maxim of live poker. Once i played 12-24 Omaha Hi/Lo with a nice asian lady at the Peppermill who would muck her hand on the turn when she was all in and out of chips because she apparently didn't know about the table stakes rule. I felt bad.
Before the reveal, I’m calling all day. The only UTG flush that makes sense is J9 diamonds, where he’s flopping and slow playing. When he leads out he’s so weak. He got unlucky that you made your flush, but if you don’t have a flush, you can’t call there and you have to play honest with her behind you. He’s totally turning top set into a bluff. His bet there is saying he has a flush or nothing... he’s polarized. What flushes does he have? Did he open Ax of diamonds? It would have to be A8, or A9 or A7 of diamonds to continue given post flop action... OR he checked the nuts. But would be open J9 of diamonds from UTG full ring if he’s the best player in the game? He has way more bluffs in his range on the river than value. And he was ahead the whole way, but scared of the straight in such a wet board. Jacks with J of diamonds or 9s with 9 of diamonds could make this play too. Maybe even AJo with either A or J of diamonds could make this play, but he has way too many bluffs in his range when he polarizes to a flush or nothing on the river. Call all day
You are getting close to 3:1 with the chance of it being 4:1 if the fish over calls. I think this is too big of a fold vs. a live player that you don't have a great read on. I could see folding getting 2:1 vs. a reg that you have a ton of information on. If I have learned anything from these videos is that the value of showing down is huge. People do so many strange things.
If he's actually a solid player, can't we narrow down his UTG opening range to very few combos of diamonds that actually hit? I can see KQ, KJ, QJ, AQ, AJ, maybe J9 DD at most. I don't think he's opening K9 or Q9 DD. Also, I think there's a chance he let's go all his flush draw combos without a gutshot. Once again, if he's a solid player, I don't see him calling with AQ or KQ of diamonds for example because only his flush draw outs are any good. That leaves literally just AJ, KJ, QJ, J9 of diamonds. The real question: does he lead out with any bluffs ever? I feel like that's what makes this the hardest spot to call. I don't know if he'll just lead that big with JJ with Jack of diamonds as a bluff ever. Still feels like a fold to me IMO. I think it's super lucky that he happened to have 10s,, which I don't expect many good players to end up on the river here with the way the hand played out (no check raise on turn??)
Just check/fold then??? I don't get why people are so afraid to fold big hands. I've folded KK preflop before, second nuts postflop before when I thought I was beat (given the line).
UGT could bet the river getting good players to fold low flushes and straights, representing Adjd, Ad9d, Ad6d, same with kings, and a few other hands... And Bart said he would have thought about folding. Then he says the guy is a bad player? What the UTG did seems reasonable. He gets a good player to fold better and a bad play to call with worse.
@@theejayzeeable yea but the bad player will call with worst than TT on that board especailly if hero does fold,that actually couldve been the outcome if Bart was laying the heors hand and folded;-) He is probably never folding TT to a bet from V anyway so he just decided to lead out,it wasnt that huge a bet
There was a lot of excellent analysis here (hero seems quite good also), but the conclusion is almost definitely wrong imo. UTG is good. QJdd, KJdd, AJdd are the only 3 backdoor flush combos that utg opens pre, ck-calls flop, and can call turn with. That contrasts with AA and JJ -- 12 combos that have to see river. JJ because it's an overpair + a gutter, and AA because it beats hero's QQ and JJ (likely hero hands). UTG might still have KK and QQ for same reason. Possibly even AT, if he thinks hero will keep betting hands like T9 on turn with the presence of the super fish. I never have sets played this way by river (but I see it, so I don't discount them completely.) So that's 3 combos you lose to and ~24 combos you beat, and all hands that I could see either checking or betting the flop. You've been snakebit by paying off backdoors if you're considering folding this river. If it wasn't for the presence of the potentially overcalling super fish, you'd have to consider raising. I think Bart is prob misranging the guy because he probably doesn't block rivers himself, or at least for this sizing.
I think the villain was trying to represent the flush on the river. Top set here may think he is behind already on the turn and so hopes to rep the flush on the river. The whole dynamic of the whale in the middle makes this hand different too, everyone saying "UTG is bad" seems to be forgetting that if 2 good players are in a pot with a super loose and very bad player, both good players can have ranges that are very wide. Not to mention either good player is probably value betting on the river with sets and straights too, since the bad player sounds like she would call with nearly anything. I thought top set was more likely by the river, but of course it could be a flush too.
"I think the guy's full of sh1t." - B.Hanson - 2005 through 2020.
Hero’s hand doesn’t really remove any of UTG’s flush combos because 8’s and 7’s aren’t in a full-ring UTG opening range, unless he’s loose and would open A8s or A7s from that position, in which case that’s only a couple combos.
Basically my point is that our hand shouldn’t really factor into our evaluation of whether UTG is holding a flush by the river.
I like how you narrow ranges Bart. It's inspiring, thanks 4 the vids I appreciate them, they help me in my studies as well.
Great call in. Before the result I was expecting a KJDD or A9DD but seems very odd to have 10’s the way the hand was played out. Would you ever c/r the flop with 10’s here? Or the turn? Would be interested to know how you would consider playing this hand if you were the villain.
Check raise turn all day
^ what he said
I’d just lead cb on the flop plus you have the whale on the button & checking is fine all depends on the players in hand & board texture
Villain never intended to muck top set and so he made a blocker bet on river to avoid having to call a bigger bet. Very poorly played hand, but seems like that's what he was thinking.
or possible to get value from a two pair,lower set that possibly could check when the flsuh appears (unlikely but this could have passed thru his mind),like the play isnt completely illogical,it wouldve got Bart to fold and maybe gotten called by a worst hand of the whales!!
I don’t think it’s a poor play to bet-fold top set like that. Previous streets were questionable (shouldve raised turn or flop) but the bet-fold is fine imo. The river is going to check through a decent amount of the time so he would miss quite a bit of value.
@@spoder22 Yea the poor play was on prior streets which led to that river decision.
I'm not sure why we are putting the villain on diamonds because of river bet all of the sudden. If our read is right and villain only has overpairs, then why would we be worried about him having a flush? Also, from villains perspective, doesn't it look like hero has 78 or a set of 7's/8's? I would venture to guess it is a value bet on river and fold to a raise from the villain's POV.
Daniel Williams exactly! In real time before the villain hand reveal, I thought the lead was weak AF. What credible flushes does he have all of a sudden? He was turning top set into a bluff, because if hero doesn’t make a flush, he can’t call. Also from villain’s POV, hero betting into 2 people for two streets when he (villain) has top set, looks like a flopped straight.
I totally agree. Villain is probably hoping to get value here with a hand played more passively than usual in order to keep the whale in.
This is great, this is so amazing! Really interesting board and dynamic. A real twist at the end too!
10/10
I moved to Las Vegas 5 years ago. I played online and was successful from 2005-2011. I got cheap on training and stopped training daily. I started playing on wsop.com, and it let me know that. Completely different game. Took me a grand to learn that I am not a good online player. I’m worse at online than I am live.
Come on Bart. No-one ever folds the river. You might think your beat but its always a call. Villain played it horrible. He definitely should have check raised the turn.
Wow this was really interesting. I think in theory I like a fold and maybe wouldve done it, but whats holding me back is that if hes actually a great player I feel like sometimes great players will actually call with hands like AA, KK, QQ or even JJ with one diamond to have the ”faux flush draw” so that they can make a lead bluff excactly like this on the river when the flush completes having relevant blockers. I can see this as a viable option. AA might still rarely be good on the turn, and this faux flush draw essentially gives them more equity in the hand in terms of fold equity on the river via the bluff. Super interesting, I thought the river bet was def polarizing to a high flush or a bluff like mentioned, did not expect him to be value betting worse especially if hes a competent player.
And why I like the fold exploitatevly is because I feel not enough players would make the play with the over pairs with the flush blocker, but pretty much everyone would play the high flush combos like this.
Why didn’t he check raise the turn ? To keep the button in ?
Exactly! He got greedy...
Wow. There's no way that utg guy is a great player. What he did on the river with that hand vs you AND the fishy button player... Just seems like a horrible bet when he should be checking and praying you shut it down on the river.
Yeah. I can't really imagine a reason, even if there was a history, and the line was specific to that.Every factor described would make it better to pump money into that pot, with top set.
2 callers at river maybe he didn’t want to call a hero’s jam
@@yeoleunicorn858 Yea thats what im thinking,his play isnt all that bad really if you think about it another way,he probably thinks hero might shut down when the BD flush comes in with 2 others in the pot(if hero has a set or two pair) so he bets hoping to get called by a worst hand which is very possible with whale player there,(hero wont be folding sets either i think),he only bet over half pot aswell,
or maybe just a block bet,i dunno think his flop/turn play is way worst
This is just a "close your eyes and call" situation. Way too strong to fold. Too many other hands he could be value betting that we beat. Throw it in.
totally agree
Lol yeah no. Given the information that he is a good player, there are like no hands we beat that he’s betting for value here. Youre being very results oriented. If this guys read is right about the level of this player, this riverbet is definately polarizing and should be nuts(or close to) or air, and its hard to find logical bluffs here. Especially because not many good players would check here on the flop with a set like Bart mentioned, atleast not that often. I think I wouldve called too because im a station, but thinking about it I think you could definately fold here.
TrollJokuMaster I agree if this guy doesn’t have a very weirdly played set of tens then we are best every time. Still hard to fold though
And off suit 2? No flush... Still wanna call?
Like Hanson, I would have folded that tiny flush on the river after the large UTG bet, given all of the other information.
When the Villain said that he thought hero had the nuts, I think that he meant that he thought hero had flopped a straight by holding J9, and then villain was hoping to represent a flush on the river and make him fold.
Not saying that I believe it. Just saying that I think that's what he meant.
7 and 8 of diamonds is the best possible hand to rule out back door flushes. In order to have had a back door flush plus pair someone needs a 7 8 or 10 of diamonds and they are all accounted for. I think Bart is right but with This flush we have to call and hope they have TT or two pair or something else I think
i haven’t heard results yet: I would call here because of the button but if i thought or got a read that the button was folding i would jam here.
edit: just listened to end so when you have a true fish in the game everything changes from what you’re used to. Fold is completely off the table it’s either raise or call.
acehole Oh how interesting, youd make the excact perfect play against villains specific holding that everyone feels he’s super unlikely to have. Raise here loses a lot of money long term, I doubt any worse hand calls a jam.
Very true Acehole, i'm surprised how many people are ignoring the dynamic of having a whale in the hand who has been calling down with any pair. A lot more hands should bet for value than normal. I thought top set was actually fairly likely, what is the villain doing this with, QQ in a three way pot? While a backdoor flush is likely for the villain it's a lot less likely that he's raising pre and then calling the flop with only a backdoor flush draw. The fact that he calls the Flop made me think top set was more likely. Ranges widen tremendously when 2 good players simultaneously try to play in a pot with a whale, and the good players will often play more passively than usual to keep the whale in.
TrollJokuMaster incorrect as the villain would be getting an amazing price to call the jam i think 5:1 but i don’t recall exactly. i wouldn’t be targeting just TT but any set and also a flopped straight. plus the inclusion of the whale means he may even have an overpair though it’s unlikely it’s more likely than a flush.
I enjoyed the analysis. As a less experienced player, why is flat calling $35 pre-flop with 7d8d (or any middle suited connector) in middle position incorrect, while folding or three betting is correct? Thank you.
Like Bart mentioned, you have to be wary of getting squeezed with so many hands behind you.
Off the top of my head i can think of four reasons you pretty much have to call the river and folding isn't an option. Villain could have J9, villain could have 45dd, villain could have a weirdly played set, villain could decide the diamond is a good card to bluff.
Exactly,villian could decide with those hands and TT "fck it im gonna call a bet anyway so why not lead myself,i could have best hand and this guy might even check back now with the flush out there" .I actually dont find Vs lead with the TT that bad at all,its almost a blicker bet that can get called by worst and you save money have to call a large bet by a better hand
@@Gos1234567 yeah i don't think Bart really had a chance to think through villain's line, I think not check raising the turn is sort of crazy, but if you do just flat the turn, bet folding the river is probably the best play.
I picked exactly the same bets, 100 and 300, but was torn on the river. I think that villain was indeed turning top set into a bluff and at the same time counting on BTN to call with worse hand. It does make sense.
Strange to bet top set only why a back door flush comes in? There are not many, but some hands you get value from. I think even a jam and a call would be standart.
Nice call - I hope to hear more from this caller once we get our Covid-19 shit together in Montreal!
Yeah I was thinking he could do this with a set on the river. Maybe planning to fold to a jam. He may just be afraid that the river will check through.
you referenced Garrett and Andy. Are they the best cash players anywhere?
he probably meant that you had a set of 7 or 8 when he thought you had the nuts on the turn
also, I think he played the hand bad because he should have raised the flop or the turn to get value from the whale and also from the caller who should have a lot of sets in his range calling pre flop and betting flop + turn in that situation
so he should c bet or check raise to maximize ev in that spot
I think what villain meant was that he put hero on a straight and thought he could bully him off it when the flush came out. Especially considering he was shot taking. Would have been very interesting to see what he'd do if hero did have the straight. Would have been a tough call bc like you said the villain looked like he caught the backdoor on the turn. Question is did villain know the hero was shot taking and how nervous a table image he was giving off to the other players. I know if I was playing above my normal stakes I'd have a harder time making that call than at my usual level.
People are seriously thinking about folding a backdoor flush to a 1/2 pot block bet because they're scared of a backdoor overflush? Wow. Well I guess I'll keep bluffing 3-flush boards with any one card of the suit as blocker then. Most under-defended board ever.
lol yea V has to specifically have A9dd/A6dd two overcard diamonds,but does a decent player call those on the flop multiway? The old blockbet bluff with a v narrow range trick is back in style
"I think the guys full of shit" LMFAO!!!! Oh my god, that made this analysis the best ever. You're the goat Bart!!!! Keep the content flowing!!!
What’s a gutter
Bart, we play together sometimes when the rooms are open in LA, but what you say on the end here makes literally no sense. The guy shouldn’t lead the river because the bd flush comes in? So what, he should just be check folding to normal bet? Because this caller is going to be betting his flush again on the end, so if the set calls that’s the same result. The only difference is you said you might fold the flush, in which case the bet can’t be bad at all. I’d be check x/r jamming top set all day on the turn, but not sure what you could mean with this.
YES!!I dont agree with Bart on this one at all,the Vs play actually does make sense.As you say he can fold out a lower flush maybe(low frequency) or even get called by a worst hand,the whale could called with worst,maybe hero calls with a set sometimes,He also maybe dint want to call a huge bet by hero,V only bet 800 into 1350,not that huge a bet.
Its a kind of blocker/merge bet that makes more sense that checking,if he checks maybe a worst hand that his TT will check back for fear of the BD flushes hitting.
So yea isnt Bart always saying check calling is the worst play in poker anyway;-)
lol no Villian is a genius. He knew he was in 2nd place, Bet was designed to bluff out Hero get Whale to call ;)
I could see possibly folding due to the diamond on the river being another LOW diamond...since it reduced the number of combos of flushes that we beat. I probably still make a cry call.
Great hand analysis. Thank you
Is this a podcast, that these are pulled from?
I think he did it because there was no way he was folding there and the pot was almost 1400, Hero had 1565 and if he checks hero would either bet 1100+ or shove, so he block bet and wanted to save 400+
If I was UTG I’d check raise the flop and lead the turn. So many bad cards can come, for instance, the back door diamonds. Classic example of flopping top set and letting you opponent catch up and win
I was deep sea fishing once upon a time many yesteryears ago.. I hooked what I hoped was a huge fish! Only Upon landing my catch did I then realize it was an angry Shark and quite dangerous
I forsure thought the utg has QJdd or Q9dd. Looks like he wasn’t a good player after all.
More likely AJdd than either of the other
never would have let it get to the rivr with that set. i would have hit the turn for a pot sized bet, after the flop calls..
i really expected him to have Q9 of diamonds.. made the most sense.. gutter, flush draw, over card. THAT, would make sense, with the play of that hand..
wow.. let the draws get there, and if he thought it was a weak flush ( no clue ), if he bet like $1400, pretty sure he takes it down....
great hand to see at those stakes..
I think he was bet-folding river here. I think his size was too large to get cry-called by a hand like 78hh/ss/dd or T8s.
He shouldve really just check-jammed turn though IMO.
He probably knew you must have a hand like 2 pair after going for it on the turn, and he was trying to get max value. You just so happened to have the only 2 pair possible here (assuming he had the ten of clubs) that also made a flush.
Hi ! Hope all is well during these times
Villain should’ve known something was up by the turn. If I were him I’d make a small blocker bet on the river, fold to a re-raise
Flats are useful when you 1-know your opponents are not conscious to your plays 2- are capable of calling off their whole stack with very marginal hands. It allows you to hit a homer in cheap cheap cheap!
the real whale was UTG player, idk what the fuck that guy was doing in this hand, gotta x/r the turn if you don't x/r the flop obviously like come on man best player at the table?
From Villian's POV: 4 way action on a flop like that is a 100% bet out or check-raise with top set. 4 combos of J9 suited, three 89suited, three 97 suited, one 9T suited, two 87 suited, and 6 combos of pocket 9s. UTG is NOT a strong player, he took a fishy line. Called when he should've raised and bet when he should've checked.
From Hero's POV: river bet is obviously value bet by a "solid player". So if hes a good player, what can you beat? AJdd, A9dd, QJdd, KJdd, Q9dd, K9dd all take this line.
Either the hero is wrong about UTG being a solid player or is a fish himself. A solid player doesn't check-call twice and fires on this river with something Hero can beat.
Not true. Haven't you ever bluffed at a pot when the flush came in? You have to be confident of your hand reading and pick your opponents carefully, but it's a great play sometimes. Villain seems to have been trying to keep the whale in but got unlucky. You can't ignore the dynamic of trying to keep the whale in the pot by playing the hand in a non standard way, not sure why everyone is ignoring that aspect.
Ben Pon // Exactly. they’re both fishy.
And this site is loaded with fish, too. Interesting that only couple of other comments pointed weak play of UTG on turn (UTG turn play is the key element in this entire hand). Everyone else are talking about the river. River talk would be totally irrelevant, if ever gone so far - had the UTG jammed the turn. (Instead of call). With top set, 2 opponents and their straight and flush draw on TURN a good player would’ve killed it right there.
Jonathan Angel // he got unlucky on river, uhm? That’s because he relied on luck. And that’s exactly what differs the fish from a good player.
@@pot_kivach160 Interesting that you think a player who played a hand in a way you did not expect is a fish. Wouldn't that make you the fish, since you always play all of your hands the same exact same way? Also, some staggering logic here, but if he check raises the turn and still loses, does that mean he lost because he relied on skill? After all, he would have been suitably predictable for you, right?
Tbh I was thinking that the guy was either slow playing a set or a straight.
Living for “the fishy lady” 🐟😂
The entire vlog I thought pocket 10s or Js, the lead on the river screamed 10s or some suited 9 q. There is zero chance anybody, including Bart, is folding that river.
I meant J9, not Q9. Either way this is 90% flopped set or str8, no way to fold.
@@aubrieburke8497 u should become HS professional and see how it goes
Ha, playing with someone who doesn't know the rules. The bum-hunting maxim of live poker. Once i played 12-24 Omaha Hi/Lo with a nice asian lady at the Peppermill who would muck her hand on the turn when she was all in and out of chips because she apparently didn't know about the table stakes rule. I felt bad.
Before the reveal, I’m calling all day. The only UTG flush that makes sense is J9 diamonds, where he’s flopping and slow playing. When he leads out he’s so weak. He got unlucky that you made your flush, but if you don’t have a flush, you can’t call there and you have to play honest with her behind you. He’s totally turning top set into a bluff. His bet there is saying he has a flush or nothing... he’s polarized. What flushes does he have? Did he open Ax of diamonds? It would have to be A8, or A9 or A7 of diamonds to continue given post flop action... OR he checked the nuts. But would be open J9 of diamonds from UTG full ring if he’s the best player in the game? He has way more bluffs in his range on the river than value. And he was ahead the whole way, but scared of the straight in such a wet board. Jacks with J of diamonds or 9s with 9 of diamonds could make this play too. Maybe even AJo with either A or J of diamonds could make this play, but he has way too many bluffs in his range when he polarizes to a flush or nothing on the river. Call all day
You are getting close to 3:1 with the chance of it being 4:1 if the fish over calls. I think this is too big of a fold vs. a live player that you don't have a great read on. I could see folding getting 2:1 vs. a reg that you have a ton of information on. If I have learned anything from these videos is that the value of showing down is huge. People do so many strange things.
If he's actually a solid player, can't we narrow down his UTG opening range to very few combos of diamonds that actually hit? I can see KQ, KJ, QJ, AQ, AJ, maybe J9 DD at most. I don't think he's opening K9 or Q9 DD.
Also, I think there's a chance he let's go all his flush draw combos without a gutshot. Once again, if he's a solid player, I don't see him calling with AQ or KQ of diamonds for example because only his flush draw outs are any good.
That leaves literally just AJ, KJ, QJ, J9 of diamonds. The real question: does he lead out with any bluffs ever? I feel like that's what makes this the hardest spot to call. I don't know if he'll just lead that big with JJ with Jack of diamonds as a bluff ever.
Still feels like a fold to me IMO. I think it's super lucky that he happened to have 10s,, which I don't expect many good players to end up on the river here with the way the hand played out (no check raise on turn??)
Could he have that the hero was going to jam and just saved himself 700? It’s like taking away value from opponents made hand.
Just check/fold then???
I don't get why people are so afraid to fold big hands.
I've folded KK preflop before, second nuts postflop before when I thought I was beat
(given the line).
@@Pyrotekniq we are not all Mike Postle-esque God type players like you;-)
maybe he thought ol boy was trying to bully..?
HE HAD A SET WHAT THATS a strange line
UGT could bet the river getting good players to fold low flushes and straights, representing Adjd, Ad9d, Ad6d, same with kings, and a few other hands... And Bart said he would have thought about folding. Then he says the guy is a bad player? What the UTG did seems reasonable. He gets a good player to fold better and a bad play to call with worse.
If heads up, yeah. U forget that there's a bad player on the btn too.
@@theejayzeeable yea but the bad player will call with worst than TT on that board especailly if hero does fold,that actually couldve been the outcome if Bart was laying the heors hand and folded;-)
He is probably never folding TT to a bet from V anyway so he just decided to lead out,it wasnt that huge a bet
Final analysis, "I think the guy is FOS". 😂
J9 diamonds is a killer here and everyone loves them selves a suited J 9!!!
let´s hope he finds a raise on the river and keeps playing 5/10
And what does villain call with other than a better hand?
cant raise that river FFs!
That was my point guys...
The guy is obviously not a good player to do that with 1010 on the river
I thought UTG had AJ Diamonds lol wow
Before I knew the results I’d call. I feel like he had KK Or QQ. But let’s see in a few minutes
I don't see QQ or KK taking that line, multi way, oop, with that board. Just one strangers opinion, but it would seem really bad to me.
I'm bet folding turn for 150
People are too scared to bluff raise turn
Good one. Villan is reppin a flush. He knows hero has j9.
"The butt un player."
Reminds me of "planet arium" on South Park.
The caller's overannunciation distracts me. Otherwise great hand with great analysis
9x
I ❤️ Taking Shots
There was a lot of excellent analysis here (hero seems quite good also), but the conclusion is almost definitely wrong imo. UTG is good. QJdd, KJdd, AJdd are the only 3 backdoor flush combos that utg opens pre, ck-calls flop, and can call turn with. That contrasts with AA and JJ -- 12 combos that have to see river. JJ because it's an overpair + a gutter, and AA because it beats hero's QQ and JJ (likely hero hands). UTG might still have KK and QQ for same reason. Possibly even AT, if he thinks hero will keep betting hands like T9 on turn with the presence of the super fish. I never have sets played this way by river (but I see it, so I don't discount them completely.) So that's 3 combos you lose to and ~24 combos you beat, and all hands that I could see either checking or betting the flop. You've been snakebit by paying off backdoors if you're considering folding this river. If it wasn't for the presence of the potentially overcalling super fish, you'd have to consider raising. I think Bart is prob misranging the guy because he probably doesn't block rivers himself, or at least for this sizing.
I think the villain was trying to represent the flush on the river. Top set here may think he is behind already on the turn and so hopes to rep the flush on the river. The whole dynamic of the whale in the middle makes this hand different too, everyone saying "UTG is bad" seems to be forgetting that if 2 good players are in a pot with a super loose and very bad player, both good players can have ranges that are very wide. Not to mention either good player is probably value betting on the river with sets and straights too, since the bad player sounds like she would call with nearly anything. I thought top set was more likely by the river, but of course it could be a flush too.
you're not folding this. gtfooh.
9 out of 10 times, the whale will have A5d.
Haha I think he’s full of shit too! Really good video mate.
The ending was incredible “I think the guys full of shit”