What J.D. Vance’s Transformation Tells Us About the Future of Democracy
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- Populism, offered as a solution to economic and cultural woes, has gained ground in Europe following a slew of recent elections. Across the pond, the Ohio senator and potential Trump running mate J.D. Vance is championing an American version of populist politics that is also gaining traction. On this week’s episode, the hosts discuss Vance’s embrace of the ideology and consider why many voters find it so appealing.
Plus, Ross shares a literary deep cut that not even Carlos has heard of.
(A full transcript of this episode will be available within 24 hours of publication on the Times website.)
Recommended in this episode:
• “What J.D. Vance Believes (www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/op...) ” by Ross Douthat in The Times
• “Lone Star: A History of Texas and the Texans,” “Fire and Blood: A History of Mexico” and “Comanches: The History of a People” by T.R. Fehrenbach
• “What Will Become of American Civilization? (www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...) ” by George Packer in The Atlantic
Thoughts about the show? Email us at matterofopinion@nytimes.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 556-7440.
So long as the rich are getting richer and the poor becoming poorer, populism will be a force in American politics.
So long as populism is a force in American politics, the rich will get richer and the poor become poorer.
@@cdorman11populism is a signal to the entire political class and elites in general that's there some serious problems that need to be addressed.
I am a friend of the working man and I would rather be his friend than be one !
Clarence Darrow
I waited for them to say who jd vance is and what his transformation was. They talked about macaron. They talked about Huey Long. I lost interest, and I'm not googling it.
JD Vance grew up in Appalachia, and did not have a stable family home but did have a good grandmother who proved essential to his succcess. He joined the military, has a high IQ, and applied without expecting to get into an Ivy League law school but did. The transformation was from believing the anti-Trump propaganda to not believing it.
The Oligarchs loves to talk about "our democracy" and "the populace" but when the populace goes against the elites, then suddenly Democracy is too precious for the people.
The recent leak of the Supreme Court is testament to this
The New York Times would use the F word - "Fascism" - but that might be awkward for their special, scary friend. What's really missing from this discussion is the C word: "Cowards".
Fascism is capitalism in decay
what are you talking about?
J.D. Vance's craven caving to MAGA shows he has the spine of an earthworm.
Proglodytes' selective memory concerning the Elevation of Trump by Clinton and Podesta shows that Proglodytes have the brainpower of a special needs amoeba.
PERFECT FOR DONNIE
Everything the New York Times makes is a matter of opinion, including the newspaper. What would be a great change, would be a new content section "A Matter or Journalism"
I love that you give the opportunity to communicate with you either by calling a phone number and leaving a message or emailing you. This means you sincerely care what we, your listeners, think of your work. Thank you! 🙂
Why are people so terrified by a more restrictive immigration policy? When they leave you can open the borders and catch up in no time
Great conversations,always Thanks
I’m guessing here. But I think J.D. Vance gets chosen as Donald Trumps VP.
Here is my take on populism. It is, by definition, based on what is widely popular. I think what is widely popular is 1) complaining and 2) talking trash. Talk to anyone of any political persuasion. That is what we/they do. They/we find something in common to complain about, and then talk trash about the people we are complaining about. Fixing things is not important. Trump is perhaps the best complainer and trash talker ever. That is his appeal.
So far, so good, Stephen. Then what?
A reasonably sensible person might complain, in the hope of inspiring somebody else to help solve the problem complained about, and then talk a little trash as a way of inspiring potential helpers. Even a reasonably sensible person might be mistaken about the likelihood of any help being anywhere at hand.
A different sort of person, a persistent whiner, might we say, could complain in the hope of inspiring others to join in the fun. Talking trash might even be fun for a while.
Therer was, after the Civil War, a Populaist Party and a populist movement in the United States, and they inspired enough helpers at least to direct a great deal of income toward Tennessee. A somewhat parallel movement in Europe led to Kristalnacht, and some redirections of income, and then to World War II, and...
Trump? He and his helpers have shown only one consistent policy aim, and it does not resemble either of those populaisms. Trump in power has redirected income very sharply toward the already rich.
I note in passing that the world's richest man is not Trump, but is sometimes these days Elon Musk -- and all the Wikipedia pages around Nikola Tesla have been rewritten in recent years to turn the bloviating, poverty-stricken, con man into a successful inventor.
Complainer, yes, but best trash talker? No way. He dishes it out like a 6th grader, and that's on a good day.
@@Milkmans_Son - By Trump's own assessment and admission, he hasn't changed substantially since he was six years old, making him more like a 1st grader than a 6th grader. I have to concur with him on this (one) point.
Abraham accords, withdrawing troops, economic growth, positive cpi reduction, authoritarians toning down their rhetoric, net energy exporting etc all happened under trump with his hands tied behind his back. Never forget that there is more evidemce that biden crapped his pants on dday than truml being a russian asset.
He does not appeal to ME. He does, however appeal to many people. At some point, not for the best, a lot of people just want to kick over other people's sandcastles. We may be at a point where the better good goes out the window.
J.D. Vance is a Trumpist of convenience. At the start, you could have called him a never-Trumper. Now, he sees a path to political success that goes through Trump.
And if you don't like those principles, he has others.
Vance is what used to be called a Poverty Pimp.
The Presidential ballot should have a 'none of the above' option (sort of a shadow 3rd party) and if that option garnered a certain percent of the vote (say 10%), then a new election, a snap election, would be required with new candidates within 3 weeks.
When Vance started wearing his goth eyeliner i knew he was having dictator fantasies.
All J.D. Vance's so called transformation "tells us about" is J.D. Vance.
Hey Sen. Brown & Sen. Vance ; ask Dave Yost and Gregory White who's been doing the ruffies,rubbing alcohol, laced cigarettes and 4ever farm chemicals put in my windshield car vents at the Honda factory parking lot etc ? I live in Jim Jordan's district with 🔎 Punishment Teams and no FBI intervention.
'Well, like, that's your opinion man." The Dude
I read Vance's book many years ago and sensed that something was very phony and self serving about it. I then checked the academics who were familiar with the subject. They were appalled by Vance's writings. The NYT article/interview and this debate reinforced for me the feeling of shallowness of both Vance and Douthat. Douthat just doesn't have the depth to support his right wing slants. His cynicism makes that obvious.
He will be U.S. President some day. No question. He's the leader we need.
@@Jean-Luc-sh2pg Then enjoy your decline into irrelevance Jean-Luc!
@@barrylane1055 The right is ascendent.
Douthat is garbage
WE DO NOT NEED IMMIGRANTS. OUR OWN PEOPLE COULD HAVE DONE THE WORK. But the billionaires, instead of millionaires couldn't pay just themselves. Sending the manufacturing out of the country was the worst thing "our wonderful business leaders" could have ever have done. Those workers could have had lots of children to work. But no, the mentals wanted cheap help...how do I know...they build schools in other countries for the future cheap help crop...a reliable source told me.
If OverSimplified did a video on J.D.Vance they could just use a normal photo.
there is a thing called 'progressive populism' based on the notion that people are more important than corporations & wall street & the top 10% .. there is a publication from storm lake iowa .. 'the progressive populist' .. that defines and explores the issues focusing on that notion .. it's too bad that populism has the connotation that it is nationalistic and isolationist and religious .. time to reexamine the definition and its other meaning ...
Corporations, Wall Street, and the top 10% are very important for serving, informing, inspiring, and enabling the other 90%. _Non sibi._ That said, _corruptio optimi pessima._
That was far too short.
What transformation? He i who he always said he was, he wasn't who those that darling'd him wished he was.
The take of, “then don’t write the book” is an idiotic one
I found H Elegy unreadable, because I thought I was going to read a 21st century companion to Let Us Now Praise Famous Men or Night Comes to the Cumberlands, both treasures. Vance seems to have been cynical from the very beginning. I can't speak to the craven publisher or editor who thought this was a serious book. I am sorry that he was taken up by both sides and that we seem to be stuck with him.
Boy, if that is not the truth!
I am absolutely floored that you think JD Vance is sincerely interested in policy when he is vying for the VP slot for a presidential candidate who will absolutely dismantle democracy as a form of government. He is not serious, and only by treating the unserious as serious can you continue to create content about people who are not populists but outright fascists.
Successful politics in a society that suffers inequitably from class or tribal division is the ancient Stone Soup Story. The occasion for bringing healing and reorganizing efforts to bear can be contrived or valid. Populism harnesses the suffering of the people. It grows around a voice that is able to reflect and validate that suffering.
Populism speaks to real problems and real human suffering in the language of those who suffer.
Politics is expressed in a different language to find a homeostasis that encompasses parties which, from their tribal worldviews, often find each other anathema, and at the very least, suspicious and dangerous.
The oligarchs do not want to expand their worldview to make those who suffer beloved unto them.
Those who suffer do not know how to keep the oligarchs honest, though many of them could theoretically make them beloved.
Both are needed to find solutions for society that are sustainable. Both must move beyond class. Animosities, and suffer amendments to their ideal goals, to forge a reordering of society that is 'good enough'.
Populous movements are led by charismatic adepts who can read the suffering and discontent of the people, yet too often fall into the thrall of the adulation and empowerment they receive.
Character is what distinguishes between successful and tragic populists.
Gandhi in India is an example of a populist with character /virtue.
It's an exercise for a reader to make the list of those who do not and did not possess character and virtue.
These presenters sound like dorks.
16:19 - creating policies that support growth is how you counter inflation! Cutting taxes isn’t just for rich, it is for all working middle class!
Cutting taxes hasn’t paid for itself in the last few iterations, so without cutting spending the reduced revenue is only adding to the national debt.
Inflation is basically more demand than there is supply.
Maybe if the elites were not pushing stupid ideas the populism would not have power !
Populism is more about Common sense Ism.
Which is antithetical to reason!!
By "elites," you mean "capitalists." Read a damn book.
@@ericcampbell503
No I actually mean the over educated but not wise people that are running the country .
Look at how well my betters did in running Harvard and the other “ top “ schools when Israel was attacked and Americans kidnapped ( along with a few Israelis I heard ).
They let boys playing dress up beat all the girls in sports .
Plus we deplorables have such a long memory we recall when a boy exposing himself in a locker room would be a sex offender , now the girl that complains is the perp!
Their cities like San Fransisco , Portland ruined.
Illegals entering were not a problem until they started getting to the northern cities like NYC.
Does this channel ever have the other side to present views or is it just an echo chamber ?
What’s the other side? Lying millionaire grifters who openly support dictatorships are good?
Every media outlet is an echo chamber now.
That’s what makes so the most money.
Yay capitalism.
It is literally in the thumbnail, Matter of Opinion. Opinion pieces are by definition biased, they should still be factual. Proper journalism will clearly indicate between content that is opinion, news, features, editorial, an interview, or entertainment and each of the types have standards.
What's the other side? MAGA?
And you still have no fucking clue how MMT changes things.