The first time around was a lot more fun. This, not so much... Here's the last time there was a big tie for first if you missed it: ua-cam.com/video/J59VIaESTQI/v-deo.html
The problem I have with these ties is that there's a massive advantage for using race passes. Even with the massive amount of monkey money most high level players have stockpiled, taking 15 minutes of retries to get one good run only to fail like ISAB would be able to make a considerable dent in your monkey money reserves. Sure, you can get a race pass every 50 days from the daily reward, but since you can't choose when to use them, the pass will more than likely be spent on a race that hardly maters.
Call me cynical but I believe this is why NinjaKiwi allowed the race to continue, so people with race passes could get a better chance at completing the race and generating them profits
First thing they need to do is to add "Manual round start select" So for each race you could select a bunch of rounds and instead of "start next round" you start next pre-selected round. Like select rounds 39, 74, 79, 90, and send 39 in 1 click. Then next click sends 74, 79 and 90. That would be dope.
Would be great for balloons td gods but overall pretty useless for a massive amount of players. Would also allow people to just skip to max round with farms.
Correction: "Those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those ..."
Legit player in 105th place right here that lost his all top 50 streak because of this garbage. Honestly I don't know what to say. We warned NK but they didn't listen. They relied on a tie break system that's - especially on this race - unfair in the first place and didn't work at all in the second place (for example people who submitted the time below 10th ended up not getting t50 etc). The order of the displayed leaderboard seems pretty much random at this point yet they still decided to give medals based on that. There was no good decision anymore at this point but in my opinion this one was the worst. Anyways great vid and congrats on going through the struggle of doing it legit!
There are really two separate ideas here: the rewards distribution and the use of cheat engines. Let's assume for a moment no run uses a cheat engine. In that case, tiebreaking based on time submitted is completely fair. The best racers will invent and master the optimization first. Now if we consider cheat engines, we see that it harms the integrity of this race. But that's not the sole problem. If cheat engines allow for faster optimization, then every race is hurt by them. It won't go to the tiebreaker, because the cheat engine just plain lets you get a better time.
just remove micro from races, by adding a super slow button in the game. JK that will fix it technically but to many people care about the "skill" of micro
@@badateverything2931 I mean you could, but that's not really the point of races. They're meant to push the player to be as fast as possible, and handle as many waves as possible. It's not really about a definition of "skill", but moreso a base question of what people actually enjoy about races. Personally, I'm not a big race person, but I think they should remain distinct from the other game modes.
In Trackmania, a group of players and developers detected cheaters who were using the exact same cheat (slowing down the game) because their inputs were superhumanly fast. I don't remember the details, but Ubisoft issued an update to Trackmania which made it possible to validate any future run submissions without resorting to fancy data analytics. NK already validates runs against its own code, so they should be able to use the same techniques. It might not be possible invalidate past cheated runs; they might not have enough data. Future cheated runs could be invalidated by better data collection, data analytics, and some trained eyes. Further into the future, they should be able to validate runs automatically using techniques like the ones implemented by Ubisoft.
Those who think pause buffering is an issue should remember that the pause menu is still part of the game. If NK put some effort into it, they could add code to the game which detects every cursor action and key press in the game, including those used to enter the pause menu, and require that every submission to the leaderboard contains that data. The implementation details are very complicated, but it is 100% doable.
iirc it wasn't ubisoft that updated the game (at least not for tmnf which is a really old game), it was a custom patch/modded client agreed upon by the community to be required for future leaderboard submissions. That leaderboard also is community-driven, by the way. In terms of btd6 I don't think implementing what is basically a key logger / cursor tracker is a good solution. I find it hard to justify going that hard on it, and how do you algorithmically determine from that data what constitutes legal cursor and key movement? In trackmania, it came down to making inhumanly fine adjustments to create perfect bends, or basically 'pulsing' analog inputs much faster than physically possible. But in BTD6 all you could realistically detect that way is an auto clicker, which they already have a solution for, and is honestly not a big deal as a result (it mostly just saves you from rsi, doesn't give a big advantage)
They were only able to detect those using slow down cheats though is because Trackmania had a built in system for recording inputs for player's ghosts on the leaderboard (similar to how you could record Doom speedruns, where it shows every input on every frame). If it only showed the video without the inputs, it wouldn't have been nearly as effective, as you would only be able to try and eyeball it based on a video with no inputs being shown, rather than running a script to check all Trackmania leaderboard runs for a certain frequency in inputs, which is what they did to find the cheaters. Go check out Karl Jobst's or Wirtual's videos for more on that, my point being- unless more is recorded on these race runs, I don't think Ninja Kiwi can do anything about slowdown as it is now, because I don't think they record your inputs.
@@Nisvera Mhm, since Trackmania physics are completely deterministic (ie no rng), doing the exact same inputs always yields the same result. Using this, ghosts (which are what are uploaded to the leaderboard) are simply the inputs recorded in a run, then played back
Shouldn't they have alredy learnt that farms in races 90% of the time makes for an awful race? the same thing used to happen with wall of fire and 040 tack shooter. The fact that it happened once is hilarious, when it happens twice its really bad. AND they also managed to handle the situation a lot better the first time by giving everyone the first place badge. they just went with a completely unfair result by keeping the leaderboard and its rewards just as they were. I don't even play most races and I find this infuriating. Also, it doesn't even matter if you use cheat engine to slow the game down. That is the easiest way to achieve a goal. You can do the exact same thing without using cheat engine. You can just have a lot of heavy things going on in the background of your pc to slow everything down, you could even go into your BIOS and "underclock" your pc, set all frecuencies low enough that the game struggles with the amount of calculations needed for all the bloons in the race, heck, you could just remove some RAM, and most of whats left for the GPU. It's straight up ridiculous, but completely undetectable, even with the stronges anti-cheat, since you are strictly speaking not cheating, your pc is just slow, and there is no way to detect that sort of thing, and even if you could, it could result in bans to some players that play on old devices. I love NK as a company, they have a lot of comunication with the playerbase, they do what they think is best for the game and they don't push pay to win, they do most things right, but I have to say that this is a complete shitshow. Great video on the matter btw.
If you wanna be proffesional about it, just spin up a VM/mobile emulator, purposely select really low settings, and you can get a super slow device without needing to break your main device.
@@badateverything2931 honestly that seems like bad game desing, you should always add to the game, not take away. You already have a super slow button in game, its the slowdown power, you use it, and the game just goes slower. If you don't like micro, then don't do it, if you don't play challenges that force micro you will most likely not need it for the most part. Micro is only a problem for challenges, for normal games its not needed. unless you are playing some really hard maps or your strat isn't really good, but every map can be beaten with a low/easy micro, hence why there are reliable black border guides.
If NK wants this fixed they should add a replays feature where the top players' runs can be spectated, making it clear if someone is playing beyond the ability of a human. And then add a WORKING report feature. At that point it is a preference from them what to do next...
The issue with that it's that a replay system most likely would not be able to show you that the player is pause spamming like ISAB is doing. Unless if the replay system is recording the entire game including mouse movement, there is no way for other people to know the difference between legitimate and illegitimate gameplay.
But how do you tell if their just really good or an exploiter. You would have to check their background. Since their pc could just be acting up or something as well.
@@frankster2273 they would be able to see pauses but i doubt mouse movements. Since pauses are from the game while mouse isn’t. Mobile gang dislikes this idea
I feel like this just goes to show that farms should either be banned from races or reworked in races. Maybe somehow they can make it farms don't spam so much money at the start of a round or maybe you have to beat the round like you do for leveling heros.
Having to beat the round would solve it Would still allow rapid collection but you’d need a very capable defence first, which totally mitigates this issue with farms (starting with them for insane cash)
The only way I can think of NK implementing any sort of anticheat for races like these is to record how many times players attempted the race to get their top time, which could easily backfire if the worst cheater didn't do as well as the best legit player. Overall just better to make better races in the first place where you can't full send from round 1
actually, a community member has coded (in about 30 mins) a reliable way to detect people using slowdowns, which uses an actually built in timer that he then compared with the game time, I can link it if you want. He explains it better. To your idea, it's no that great imo because recent races have often been pushed to just getting good rng, making the chances of just needing one run to get top 3 with a youtube strat actually possible.
thank you benjamin franklin for inventing electricity so that computers could be invented so that autoclicker could be invented so that isab's arm doesn't fall off so that he can make more bideos :)
I find it amusing that my 1:53 in this race that took 3 attempts got me the exact same rewards as ISAB. Shouldn't happen, but it did. 1% and first in mini race. This definitely unfair.
Well, you just need a consistent cps of >5, a solid 7-9 is easy and even 11-12 is possible, though it starts hurting. But it's just not worth it if you can autoclick.
Any external feature is a cheat, including auto clicker. The only way for it to be a fair tournament is to allow everyone to use their own (stating it in a release) or including it in the game.
I hate the fact that as a mobile player, it’s essentially impossible for me to get a top time on a race. Mobile is at a clear disadvantage. They should make the mobile and PC leader boards separate.
Tie breaker i think would be a cool addition, maybe you get x amount of attempts on a new race and whoever gets the best time wins, also maybe bloons needs the anti cheat detector that most games on steam have now
No idea about the cheat engine problem, but one way you could prevent the "everyone getting the same minimum time" problem is by having the "send next round" button on the last round send every remaining bloon at once. Would actually make btd speedrunnable this way since there won't be a "perfect time".
a way they could kinda fix this is by checking the amount of pauses you have if they start to record the games because if you don’t pause and get a 1st place time they could flag you as cheating while if you had to pause multiple times you wouldn’t get flagged
That test is easy to circumvent once known. It'd probably work once or twice though, and probably wouldn't have any negative impact due to near-100% (possibly literally 100%) specificity, and implementation (almost certainly) wouldn't be difficult or time consuming, so it is a good idea. edit: trusting autocorrect was a mistake.
Do farms only fire that quickly on steam? Because I tried this race (I’m on mobile) but the farms didn’t work like that, they shot out +1 banana per round but at the speed they normally come out
I was 25th all the time, even 6 hours before the race ended which was the last time when i checked but got rewards for 102nd. I have no idea what nk did so that that happened
Perhaps if they could allow a spectating mode to see replays of peoples runs after the race you could see who is pausing a lot or who is just moving at supernatural speeds
If the race will run on the servers of Ninja Kiwi they will be able to stop cheater (they could additionaly bend doing more then 10-20 things (like reselling and rebuying towers, sending rounds or using abilities etc.) a second to stop auto clickers
NK could add a bit of code to snapshot the current time on their server or another external clock when a race starts and when it ends. That would deal with time manipulation related cheats
Why don't they just ping the racer when he starts the first round and then ping again on completion and make sure the time between the pings is less than or equal to the total race time? Just record the total paused time and account for it in the calculations and that should be a decent enough anti-cheat measure.
Because some of the players aren't cheating and just have a really bad device or bad internet. If this was implemented, they would have to spend more money on a decent enough setup with a really good internet connection just to play on races. Definitely not a good idea since most of the players are kids on mobile.
So.... I decided to see how long a hero can last on resort, on easy mode, starting with only the amount of money necessary for said hero, and the only other towers being a 2-5-0 and 2-0-4 village, 5-2-0 alchemist, 0-5-2 engineer, 5-0-2 monkey sub, and a bunch of 0-2-4 farms, with one Monkey Wall street. Here are the tests so far, Ill try to update it the more heros and motivation I have: Qwendy: 98 Rounds Adora: 102 Rounds Sauda: 119 rounds Quincey: 111 rounds Jones: 50 rounds Psi: 27 Rounds Churchill: 138 rounds Obyn: __ rounds Ezili: __ rounds Pat: __ rounds Brickell: __ rounds Ettiene: __ rounds
He plays bloons to have fun tho, he doesnt like races because of the competitive spirit they give off, making players literally cheat to get ahead of others
@@FranXiT its not clickbait if it actually happens in the video. Its not even a short clip or anything. He is literal telling you what is going to happen in the video before you click on it. Also i didn’t even remember who this dude was until i looked him up. Lol took a moment.
i think either they shouldve given top 0.1% to everyone, and no rewards for 1/top 50, etc or not given any rewards but refund all monkey money / race passes to those who did the race though, im sure that would also still annoy people, there is no proper fix to such a situation, other than just not allowing it to happen in the first place.
The most effective solution for rewards is to have two timers, the existing race timer and another one that works similarly in terms of start and end, except it counts all unpaused seconds of the game in real time. If that second timer is too high, the player is cheating. Make that second timer be serverside and require online the entire time and if you lose connection it just pauses the game (so as to not punish people with shotty internet so much). If it's serverside and done right, cheatengine shouldn't be able to affect it.
i think the anti cheat would have to do something with frames, idk it would simply count every single frame when paused, slowed or accelerated, but it would also have to consider the lag if there's too many frames, the run might get invalid however that would only work with unlimited V-sync
Hey ISAB. Do you think it would be a good idea if NK started verifying these races like regular speed runs? Like you'd have to submit video evidence and stuff and someone would look over them to make sure there was no cheating?
I think if they can track who participated in this race they should cancel the badge since #1 badge = #106 and give everyone whatever they spent back with an extra reward like a good insta or like double the monkey money back
Middle crosspath adds pierce, and bottom crosspath adds attack speed. The total DPS of the middle crosspath when max pierce is hit is better, so in races, it's the obvious choice. Bottom crosspath is usually better for real games though.
funny how half the leaderboard basically everyone uses cheat engine and dosen't get banned BUT when i try to install a fast foward mod to get to thru faster in chimps and i get banned cool nk
What if they put a FPS tracker and set a minimum if your game is running lower then the minimum possible your time is automatically disqualified. Yes i know some very low end pc's and phone users might suffer from this but it would ensure that the cheaters that forceful slow down the game below the normally possible speed will get nothing.
this is the equivilent of a global timer cause fps doesnt slow down when using cheat engine slow. which would mean the game needs to go outside the game itself to get that info
I'm really not sure what I would do in order to fix a problem like this. My largest consideration is that your primary gripe with the cheating in this case, as you mentioned in the video, is easily achieved on a slow computer. By your own logic, then, you're encouraged to play BTD6 on a slower computer to get faster times more easily. So, in my opinion, this type of "cheating" borders in the gray area. They aren't doing anything we couldn't do, and there's no punishment for it. As long as the option exists, you will always be encouraged to use the most effective tools. If you look into things like speed running, people will very often "cheat" to get a faster time; some disc drives on the original X Box could yield faster times, and people went out of their way to obtain them. Similarly, some(read: most) games are played in other languages, since the text or dialogue will be shorter in some. In this case, they're effectively just using cheat engine to achieve what they could already accomplish in real life, by buying a slower computer. As the old adage goes, "If you can't beat them, join them." I wouldn't think anything bad about you using Cheat Engine to slow down the game, if everyone else is doing it. If anything, maybe if more people abused it, maybe it could actually bring NK's attention to the problem and have it fixed. Ideally, I would just want Cheat Engine users to be placed on the "banned" list, personally. Allow them to continue playing, but on a separate leaderboard/player pool, limited to the cheaters. But, that's just my 2 cents. I'm not really happy about it, but it's just the current state of things. Until such a time that people cannot use CE to get faster times, they will continue to do so.
agreed, and theres 2 ways to fix this 1 being server sided races and 2 being global timer. but while I agree people cheat to do what they can already do in real life, its still lowers the skill needed to do it, which is the whole point of not having it. Plus in speedrunning they have a glitchless section just for that reason But I agree there's no reason not to also do it since everyone else does, its just like menu pauses or leaving before u die. Personally I hate micro and a fix that would help mobile/low pc players to would be a slow down button so that everyone is on even grounds again.
@@badateverything2931 there are multiple 'system clocks' that exist on pretty much all major os's, typically there is a steady clock that cannot be modified without turning off your computer
The first time around was a lot more fun. This, not so much...
Here's the last time there was a big tie for first if you missed it: ua-cam.com/video/J59VIaESTQI/v-deo.html
Pog
🅱️
Pog
Pog
ISAB u are a Kool Kid
The problem I have with these ties is that there's a massive advantage for using race passes. Even with the massive amount of monkey money most high level players have stockpiled, taking 15 minutes of retries to get one good run only to fail like ISAB would be able to make a considerable dent in your monkey money reserves.
Sure, you can get a race pass every 50 days from the daily reward, but since you can't choose when to use them, the pass will more than likely be spent on a race that hardly maters.
Call me cynical but I believe this is why NinjaKiwi allowed the race to continue, so people with race passes could get a better chance at completing the race and generating them profits
For me it's ok, the game is basically free so they need to make money with something
You can choose when to use the pass. If you don’t participate in the race it won’t get used
@@Matiargentino100 btd6 isnt free
@@doug138fkazi2n9 they said basically
It was very entertaining to look at the leaderboards over the weekend and realize it happened again lol
Hey guys
First thing they need to do is to add "Manual round start select" So for each race you could select a bunch of rounds and instead of "start next round" you start next pre-selected round. Like select rounds 39, 74, 79, 90, and send 39 in 1 click. Then next click sends 74, 79 and 90. That would be dope.
Would be great for balloons td gods but overall pretty useless for a massive amount of players. Would also allow people to just skip to max round with farms.
@@youngpierre9027 well, races are a bit of spam challenges currently, so it would be a nice addition
Not a solution to the problem
@@zooning-6843 Solution to a different problem, more like
@@Nisvera more of a qol change if anything
"Those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat it"
-someone important, probably
- Sun Tzu
Correction: "Those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those who will not learn history will be doomed to repeat that those ..."
@@lucci_brawlstars lol
@@kiranaadin4424 excuse me what
Legit player in 105th place right here that lost his all top 50 streak because of this garbage.
Honestly I don't know what to say. We warned NK but they didn't listen. They relied on a tie break system that's - especially on this race - unfair in the first place and didn't work at all in the second place (for example people who submitted the time below 10th ended up not getting t50 etc).
The order of the displayed leaderboard seems pretty much random at this point yet they still decided to give medals based on that.
There was no good decision anymore at this point but in my opinion this one was the worst.
Anyways great vid and congrats on going through the struggle of doing it legit!
Hey Tobi
There are really two separate ideas here: the rewards distribution and the use of cheat engines.
Let's assume for a moment no run uses a cheat engine. In that case, tiebreaking based on time submitted is completely fair. The best racers will invent and master the optimization first.
Now if we consider cheat engines, we see that it harms the integrity of this race. But that's not the sole problem. If cheat engines allow for faster optimization, then every race is hurt by them. It won't go to the tiebreaker, because the cheat engine just plain lets you get a better time.
just remove micro from races, by adding a super slow button in the game. JK that will fix it technically but to many people care about the "skill" of micro
@@badateverything2931 I mean you could, but that's not really the point of races. They're meant to push the player to be as fast as possible, and handle as many waves as possible. It's not really about a definition of "skill", but moreso a base question of what people actually enjoy about races. Personally, I'm not a big race person, but I think they should remain distinct from the other game modes.
@@rileycorrigan5593 seems they don’t need to remove micro just obvious stupid level 1 farms
In Trackmania, a group of players and developers detected cheaters who were using the exact same cheat (slowing down the game) because their inputs were superhumanly fast. I don't remember the details, but Ubisoft issued an update to Trackmania which made it possible to validate any future run submissions without resorting to fancy data analytics. NK already validates runs against its own code, so they should be able to use the same techniques. It might not be possible invalidate past cheated runs; they might not have enough data. Future cheated runs could be invalidated by better data collection, data analytics, and some trained eyes. Further into the future, they should be able to validate runs automatically using techniques like the ones implemented by Ubisoft.
Those who think pause buffering is an issue should remember that the pause menu is still part of the game. If NK put some effort into it, they could add code to the game which detects every cursor action and key press in the game, including those used to enter the pause menu, and require that every submission to the leaderboard contains that data. The implementation details are very complicated, but it is 100% doable.
iirc it wasn't ubisoft that updated the game (at least not for tmnf which is a really old game), it was a custom patch/modded client agreed upon by the community to be required for future leaderboard submissions.
That leaderboard also is community-driven, by the way.
In terms of btd6 I don't think implementing what is basically a key logger / cursor tracker is a good solution. I find it hard to justify going that hard on it, and how do you algorithmically determine from that data what constitutes legal cursor and key movement? In trackmania, it came down to making inhumanly fine adjustments to create perfect bends, or basically 'pulsing' analog inputs much faster than physically possible. But in BTD6 all you could realistically detect that way is an auto clicker, which they already have a solution for, and is honestly not a big deal as a result (it mostly just saves you from rsi, doesn't give a big advantage)
They were only able to detect those using slow down cheats though is because Trackmania had a built in system for recording inputs for player's ghosts on the leaderboard (similar to how you could record Doom speedruns, where it shows every input on every frame).
If it only showed the video without the inputs, it wouldn't have been nearly as effective, as you would only be able to try and eyeball it based on a video with no inputs being shown, rather than running a script to check all Trackmania leaderboard runs for a certain frequency in inputs, which is what they did to find the cheaters.
Go check out Karl Jobst's or Wirtual's videos for more on that, my point being-
unless more is recorded on these race runs, I don't think Ninja Kiwi can do anything about slowdown as it is now, because I don't think they record your inputs.
@@Nisvera Mhm, since Trackmania physics are completely deterministic (ie no rng), doing the exact same inputs always yields the same result. Using this, ghosts (which are what are uploaded to the leaderboard) are simply the inputs recorded in a run, then played back
Yeah Ubisoft didn't do that great since recently a well known player has been caught he was cheating for 10 years.
And then theres me. With a 5000th placing lol
I got 921 smh I am bad
Me, who can barely win a race:
That's rough, buddy.
Well, at least you placed somewhere
Rip the people who forgot
You must be cheating. Kinda weird bro
Got a 200 something. At least its top 1%
I hope this will at least be a a learning experience for NK in the future
it's already happened in the past though
Yeah, what about the *previous* learning experience for NK.
They learned nothing from out of control.
Me, who can barely win a race:
That's rough, buddy.
Yeah whenever there’s a new race I just spam the button and see funneh much Bloon
I play race like normally coz i cant get it like other fast
another way to resolve this problem? I recommend NK adds a "slowing down" feature just like the "fast forward" we already have.
also lets mobile players be competitive
Shouldn't they have alredy learnt that farms in races 90% of the time makes for an awful race? the same thing used to happen with wall of fire and 040 tack shooter. The fact that it happened once is hilarious, when it happens twice its really bad. AND they also managed to handle the situation a lot better the first time by giving everyone the first place badge. they just went with a completely unfair result by keeping the leaderboard and its rewards just as they were. I don't even play most races and I find this infuriating.
Also, it doesn't even matter if you use cheat engine to slow the game down. That is the easiest way to achieve a goal. You can do the exact same thing without using cheat engine.
You can just have a lot of heavy things going on in the background of your pc to slow everything down, you could even go into your BIOS and "underclock" your pc, set all frecuencies low enough that the game struggles with the amount of calculations needed for all the bloons in the race, heck, you could just remove some RAM, and most of whats left for the GPU. It's straight up ridiculous, but completely undetectable, even with the stronges anti-cheat, since you are strictly speaking not cheating, your pc is just slow, and there is no way to detect that sort of thing, and even if you could, it could result in bans to some players that play on old devices.
I love NK as a company, they have a lot of comunication with the playerbase, they do what they think is best for the game and they don't push pay to win, they do most things right, but I have to say that this is a complete shitshow.
Great video on the matter btw.
If you wanna be proffesional about it, just spin up a VM/mobile emulator, purposely select really low settings, and you can get a super slow device without needing to break your main device.
@@iblobtouch Just goes to show that there are more and better ways to do it, other than use cheat engine, this shit is completely undetectable
@@Tarmin_ i suggested removing micro, since alot of players already hate it, and moblie cant even do that, by adding a super slow button in game
@@badateverything2931 honestly that seems like bad game desing, you should always add to the game, not take away. You already have a super slow button in game, its the slowdown power, you use it, and the game just goes slower.
If you don't like micro, then don't do it, if you don't play challenges that force micro you will most likely not need it for the most part.
Micro is only a problem for challenges, for normal games its not needed. unless you are playing some really hard maps or your strat isn't really good, but every map can be beaten with a low/easy micro, hence why there are reliable black border guides.
@@Tarmin_ this is for races lol and it's still gonna be unfair to mobile even if they do like micro
If NK wants this fixed they should add a replays feature where the top players' runs can be spectated, making it clear if someone is playing beyond the ability of a human. And then add a WORKING report feature. At that point it is a preference from them what to do next...
The issue with that it's that a replay system most likely would not be able to show you that the player is pause spamming like ISAB is doing. Unless if the replay system is recording the entire game including mouse movement, there is no way for other people to know the difference between legitimate and illegitimate gameplay.
The replay would show pauses and mouse movement/presses on screen. This would also help in general to teach other players.
But how do you tell if their just really good or an exploiter. You would have to check their background. Since their pc could just be acting up or something as well.
@@frankster2273 they would be able to see pauses but i doubt mouse movements. Since pauses are from the game while mouse isn’t.
Mobile gang dislikes this idea
@@Name-ru1kt Anything is possible and any idea is better than no idea... Neither of us are experts but I have seen these ideas executed.
8:36 this looks really good! I appreciate it
I feel like this just goes to show that farms should either be banned from races or reworked in races. Maybe somehow they can make it farms don't spam so much money at the start of a round or maybe you have to beat the round like you do for leveling heros.
Having to beat the round would solve it
Would still allow rapid collection but you’d need a very capable defence first, which totally mitigates this issue with farms (starting with them for insane cash)
The only way I can think of NK implementing any sort of anticheat for races like these is to record how many times players attempted the race to get their top time, which could easily backfire if the worst cheater didn't do as well as the best legit player.
Overall just better to make better races in the first place where you can't full send from round 1
Makes sense, but very easy to cheat this once again, just play a lot
Or make a max limit on farms and only bottom path where it won’t work
There might be some lowlevel APIs they can use to compare the game's recorded time and the timestamp counter on the processor.
actually, a community member has coded (in about 30 mins) a reliable way to detect people using slowdowns, which uses an actually built in timer that he then compared with the game time, I can link it if you want. He explains it better.
To your idea, it's no that great imo because recent races have often been pushed to just getting good rng, making the chances of just needing one run to get top 3 with a youtube strat actually possible.
@@piusherbert I would love that link. It doesn't just detect slowdown does it? It qualifies it too?
thank you benjamin franklin for inventing electricity so that computers could be invented so that autoclicker could be invented so that isab's arm doesn't fall off so that he can make more bideos :)
@@loco0987612345 I think they’re joking mate
@@loco0987612345 bideos
When playing “legit” means you gotta have above 60fps
Maybe I can do the race on my shitty phone then
# remove micro from races
I find it amusing that my 1:53 in this race that took 3 attempts got me the exact same rewards as ISAB. Shouldn't happen, but it did. 1% and first in mini race. This definitely unfair.
I can fully understand using an autoclicker in this race, you’re trying to speedrun 76 rounds, not speedrun developing carpel tunnel.
tbf its another form of micro. Also microing is ass so i can understand the cheaters reasons too.
Well, you just need a consistent cps of >5, a solid 7-9 is easy and even 11-12 is possible, though it starts hurting. But it's just not worth it if you can autoclick.
Any external feature is a cheat, including auto clicker. The only way for it to be a fair tournament is to allow everyone to use their own (stating it in a release) or including it in the game.
the last time I was this early NK had only screwed up one race so badly that over 50 people got min time
How did you get 6 hours ago
uhm how was that 6 hours ago?
MANS ISAB HIM SELF ON ALT
@@Tommy-gc7us channel member possibly? dont know if you can disable the badge or not
they've transended the laws of time, the entire concept of timeflow is foreign to this person
This is why I only ever do races to try and get the achievements for getting below a certain time. Screw the race rewards and screw the leaderboards.
editing out the pauses turned out so cool xd it looks so cooool
Honestly, I love your sense of humor.
I luv u for editing out the pauses
"So you should be thankful that i turned on an auto clicker" why do i feel like i just got gaslighted
I hate the fact that as a mobile player, it’s essentially impossible for me to get a top time on a race. Mobile is at a clear disadvantage. They should make the mobile and PC leader boards separate.
Pretty sure thats why they made mini races
@@ooftedanimal6909 that doesn’t help mobile players one bit 🤦🏼♂️
Tie breaker i think would be a cool addition, maybe you get x amount of attempts on a new race and whoever gets the best time wins, also maybe bloons needs the anti cheat detector that most games on steam have now
That solution will pretty much leave out everyone who didn't use cheats.
@@bittendonut5186 bruh thats why I said they need the anti cheat engine 🤦♂️
@@hraklispapageorgiou6926 most anti cheats cant detect game slow, instead slow doesnt work by making the game online or basically server side.
No idea about the cheat engine problem, but one way you could prevent the "everyone getting the same minimum time" problem is by having the "send next round" button on the last round send every remaining bloon at once. Would actually make btd speedrunnable this way since there won't be a "perfect time".
a way they could kinda fix this is by checking the amount of pauses you have if they start to record the games because if you don’t pause and get a 1st place time they could flag you as cheating while if you had to pause multiple times you wouldn’t get flagged
That test is easy to circumvent once known. It'd probably work once or twice though, and probably wouldn't have any negative impact due to near-100% (possibly literally 100%) specificity, and implementation (almost certainly) wouldn't be difficult or time consuming, so it is a good idea.
edit: trusting autocorrect was a mistake.
Do farms only fire that quickly on steam? Because I tried this race (I’m on mobile) but the farms didn’t work like that, they shot out +1 banana per round but at the speed they normally come out
its happens cause multiple rounds are sent in races which makes the farm throw out all the banana in that round which is less than a second
I was 25th all the time, even 6 hours before the race ended which was the last time when i checked but got rewards for 102nd. I have no idea what nk did so that that happened
8:36 thanks isab I really appreciate it 🥰
Perhaps if they could allow a spectating mode to see replays of peoples runs after the race you could see who is pausing a lot or who is just moving at supernatural speeds
That could work if you only check the people in like the top 100.
They could still cheat but it would be FAR less rewarding
"I never say that sh!t"
- _Sun Tzu, God of War_
appreciate the painful effort of ISAB editing the pauses for our viewing experiences
I saw the tie when I checked the race before it was a real big tie and realized it would happen again
Isab casually gaslighting us into giving him the okay for auto click
one arm would make for some interesting micro challenges
If the race will run on the servers of Ninja Kiwi they will be able to stop cheater (they could additionaly bend doing more then 10-20 things (like reselling and rebuying towers, sending rounds or using abilities etc.) a second to stop auto clickers
This man really turned auto clicking into NKs problem
Bro I swear he always ties in races
NK could add a bit of code to snapshot the current time on their server or another external clock when a race starts and when it ends. That would deal with time manipulation related cheats
Then pausing mid race would have to be turned off
Your excuse for using auto clicker was golden im sold lmao
Jesus I haven’t heard of cheat engine in years. Forgot it’s still a thing
I even followed a guide and still couldn't defend sending 75 rounds at once. RNG sucks even with slowdowns
Why don't they just ping the racer when he starts the first round and then ping again on completion and make sure the time between the pings is less than or equal to the total race time? Just record the total paused time and account for it in the calculations and that should be a decent enough anti-cheat measure.
i mean bad ping exists but like if it was like 30 seconds then... yeah
Because some of the players aren't cheating and just have a really bad device or bad internet. If this was implemented, they would have to spend more money on a decent enough setup with a really good internet connection just to play on races. Definitely not a good idea since most of the players are kids on mobile.
that intro was literally hilarious 😂
Can't you use pause buffering to collect farm drops even faster?
By this point, the blame falls entirely on Ninja Kiwi
So.... I decided to see how long a hero can last on resort, on easy mode, starting with only the amount of money necessary for said hero, and the only other towers being a 2-5-0 and 2-0-4 village, 5-2-0 alchemist, 0-5-2 engineer, 5-0-2 monkey sub, and a bunch of 0-2-4 farms, with one Monkey Wall street. Here are the tests so far, Ill try to update it the more heros and motivation I have:
Qwendy: 98 Rounds
Adora: 102 Rounds
Sauda: 119 rounds
Quincey: 111 rounds
Jones: 50 rounds
Psi: 27 Rounds
Churchill: 138 rounds
Obyn: __ rounds
Ezili: __ rounds
Pat: __ rounds
Brickell: __ rounds
Ettiene: __ rounds
Wow! If I had a dollar for every time there was a massive, I'd have two dollars. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. Right?
The last 8 mins I got a 1:37.18. I was so mad lol. Never got that perfect score ):
rip
F
I feel like they should seperate mobile and pc races
Yes, this is so true
i feel like this whole problem could be solved by just banning farms from future races
this is also tru. but thats just removing micro which could also be done by adding a slow button
i wonder if it'd be worth it to nk to add proper anticheat software to btd games
it’s gonna be so chaotic
tarn is about as good in making races as tewtiy is in playing races
He plays bloons to have fun tho, he doesnt like races because of the competitive spirit they give off, making players literally cheat to get ahead of others
@@Pokesefasaa he uses double cash mode.
@@FranXiT Still at least he has a sense of humor. He isn’t that good but at least has fun which is the whole point of the game
@@Doc_Sans I whole heartedly disagree, I think his content is clickbait trash. But you do you!
@@FranXiT its not clickbait if it actually happens in the video. Its not even a short clip or anything. He is literal telling you what is going to happen in the video before you click on it.
Also i didn’t even remember who this dude was until i looked him up. Lol took a moment.
This race was fun!
i feel bad for isab who works hard on races but anyways gets ranked with others who cheated to make game easier for themselves
i think either they shouldve given top 0.1% to everyone, and no rewards for 1/top 50, etc
or not given any rewards but refund all monkey money / race passes to those who did the race
though, im sure that would also still annoy people, there is no proper fix to such a situation, other than just not allowing it to happen in the first place.
I wonder if Psi could have been upgraded fully to be able to use their ability
There's no reason to bother using them, pierce towers are the most cost effective and you just use snipers to be frame perfect at the end.
best vid ever thxs isab for making my day
THE EDIT AT THE START HAD ME ROLLING HELP-
I Heard somewhere that history repeat itself when ppl forget about it
Saw the race a few days before it closed and there were already like 20 people with this time lmao
When will the next race be out?
ISAB cyberbullying little kids in the mini-race
One time when using a slow PC actually helps you in an online game
The most effective solution for rewards is to have two timers, the existing race timer and another one that works similarly in terms of start and end, except it counts all unpaused seconds of the game in real time. If that second timer is too high, the player is cheating. Make that second timer be serverside and require online the entire time and if you lose connection it just pauses the game (so as to not punish people with shotty internet so much). If it's serverside and done right, cheatengine shouldn't be able to affect it.
but with that, how can you detect people pauseing from peope slowing down the game ?
Also mobile phones are sometimes slow and lag
it punishes people with old and slow devices though
I like how he’s trying too excuse the fact that he used autoclicker with saying i cant make videos if my arm falls off😂😂
truuuu and technically pause stopping is cheating too unless thats the reason the devs made the pause menu which i doubt
i think the anti cheat would have to do something with frames, idk
it would simply count every single frame when paused, slowed or accelerated, but it would also have to consider the lag
if there's too many frames, the run might get invalid
however that would only work with unlimited V-sync
this makes little sense ngl. the frames get slowed when the game gets slowed. what if i set it to 2 fps?
Airburt darts is a better cross path for reactor than heat tipped darts
Is there q chance for a screen capture in the game or maybe a software check while racing or after racing to check for autoclickers and cheat engines?
Hey ISAB. Do you think it would be a good idea if NK started verifying these races like regular speed runs? Like you'd have to submit video evidence and stuff and someone would look over them to make sure there was no cheating?
Not everybody can record with their device specs
7:21 i used an autoclicker so my arm wouldnt fall off
dragclickers: hold my mouse cord
First or others:GG
Isab: **thinks bigger** Use a rope and tie them.
I think if they can track who participated in this race they should cancel the badge since #1 badge = #106 and give everyone whatever they spent back with an extra reward like a good insta or like double the monkey money back
Why there a comment that isn't from isab that's 6 hours old when he released the vid 10 seconds ago???
7:50 thank god u used that auto clicker
Out of curiosity, why do you get middle path on your reactor subs? Does it make them do more damage or something?
Middle crosspath adds pierce, and bottom crosspath adds attack speed. The total DPS of the middle crosspath when max pierce is hit is better, so in races, it's the obvious choice. Bottom crosspath is usually better for real games though.
I got done watching your 50 path tie like 2 hour ago kinda funny
funny how half the leaderboard basically everyone uses cheat engine and dosen't get banned
BUT when i try to install a fast foward mod to get to thru faster in chimps and i get banned cool nk
there’s gonna be so much trolls
What if they put a FPS tracker and set a minimum if your game is running lower then the minimum possible your time is automatically disqualified. Yes i know some very low end pc's and phone users might suffer from this but it would ensure that the cheaters that forceful slow down the game below the normally possible speed will get nothing.
this is the equivilent of a global timer cause fps doesnt slow down when using cheat engine slow. which would mean the game needs to go outside the game itself to get that info
Maybe a comparison how fast the bloons are moving compared to there original time??
They should have voided the whole race in terms of stats and refunded all monkey money but i do also realise that would be a lot of work
2:51 angry sub let's fucking go
huh, i have played for over 8 months, i don't really play often recently but thats a long time
At first glance I thought, why is UA-cam recommending me the same video for the 5th time, even tho I‘ve watched it already. But yeah
I'm really not sure what I would do in order to fix a problem like this.
My largest consideration is that your primary gripe with the cheating in this case, as you mentioned in the video, is easily achieved on a slow computer. By your own logic, then, you're encouraged to play BTD6 on a slower computer to get faster times more easily. So, in my opinion, this type of "cheating" borders in the gray area. They aren't doing anything we couldn't do, and there's no punishment for it. As long as the option exists, you will always be encouraged to use the most effective tools. If you look into things like speed running, people will very often "cheat" to get a faster time; some disc drives on the original X Box could yield faster times, and people went out of their way to obtain them. Similarly, some(read: most) games are played in other languages, since the text or dialogue will be shorter in some.
In this case, they're effectively just using cheat engine to achieve what they could already accomplish in real life, by buying a slower computer. As the old adage goes, "If you can't beat them, join them." I wouldn't think anything bad about you using Cheat Engine to slow down the game, if everyone else is doing it. If anything, maybe if more people abused it, maybe it could actually bring NK's attention to the problem and have it fixed.
Ideally, I would just want Cheat Engine users to be placed on the "banned" list, personally. Allow them to continue playing, but on a separate leaderboard/player pool, limited to the cheaters.
But, that's just my 2 cents. I'm not really happy about it, but it's just the current state of things. Until such a time that people cannot use CE to get faster times, they will continue to do so.
agreed, and theres 2 ways to fix this 1 being server sided races and 2 being global timer.
but while I agree people cheat to do what they can already do in real life, its still lowers the skill needed to do it, which is the whole point of not having it. Plus in speedrunning they have a glitchless section just for that reason But I agree there's no reason not to also do it since everyone else does, its just like menu pauses or leaving before u die.
Personally I hate micro and a fix that would help mobile/low pc players to would be a slow down button so that everyone is on even grounds again.
How much monkey money *would* you have spent on this race if you didnt have a race pass?
If you feel the need to cheat because you can't win... IN A GAME ABOUT MONKEYS THROWING DARTS AT BLOONS, it really says something about the cheater.
Please do a super buffed Cave Monkey!
That would be hilarious!
You should try four Etiennes in co-op
You could just use the system clocks time and them subtract the time spent on the pause menu.
global time cause if foundd out people can modify there own clock
@@badateverything2931 there are multiple 'system clocks' that exist on pretty much all major os's, typically there is a steady clock that cannot be modified without turning off your computer
the chaos
They are making tier 6 tower now let’s go
ISAB videos with high quality editing?