I have to defend the Vic-20. We were too poor to have a computer, but I was so excited when my dad walked in the house carrying one. I couldn’t believe it. He had been working on people’s cars on the side to make the cash to buy it. I learned to code on it and still making a tidy living in dev 40 years later. It brought me so much joy in those days.
The VIC-20's game library is incredible. There's a strong case that the game library in the first 18 months after its release is better than the C64's during the first 18 months after its release. For whatever reason, VIC coders came to the table ready to make that machine sing.
Great show chaps! Why a bit grudging about the C64? It has everything you guys should love: Huge back catalogue with plenty of standout games and exclusives. Huge UK sales. Strong and vibrant modern software and hardware scene, and a terrific wider community. Anyway, thanks for another great watch.🙂
The Model Railway enthusiast thing (18:12) of the previous generation is spot on. I have been saying this for years that retro video games is exactly our generations version of that.
the Japanese entry that is missing is the MSX. Huge in Japan, huge in South America. Metal Gear started there. Castlevania started there. basically all Konami classics: Gradius, etc.
Well actually. I think you will see that this list is wrong. This is the correct one: #1 Amiga 500 #2 Amiga 1200 #3 Amiga 4000 #4 Amiga 3000 #5 Amiga 4000T #6 Amiga 2000 #7 Amiga 600 #8 Commodore CDTV (You see. not all amigas) #9 Amiga 3000T #10 Amiga CD32 And I hate ties!
I agree, but probably because I'm in the US. I think Apple had a contract with schools here and it had a big footprint. I grew up in a small town but our schools still had their share of Apple II computers. If memory serves me, the Apple II or its clones were prevalent and gave a lot of people like me a gateway into the computer world.
I agree with Dave. I need to have everything setup, ready to go. Before I had room to have 3 retro computers set up at the same time and would rotate what they were say every 3-4 months. Now I can have about 6 different retro computers set up at once. My wish is for 20.
Congratulations on 10k subscribers guys! I can't help but think the show deserves an extra 0 or two in that figure, so here's to further successes and good health, and thank you for brightening my Mondays as I listen to you while working.
First Firebird cover that always comes to my mind is Booty, the covers with a screen-shot and iconic logo always stood out. Great to have Iain back on, really great discussion this week.
I remember the keyboard Iain was showing. Wow that really took me back. A friend of mine had one. That keyboard lead me on to wanting the Yamaha portosound vss-30, which I got for Xmas one year after giving some of my birthday money towards it lol. Parents didn't have a lot of money back then. But I loved and looked after it, because I respected the cost of things. Great show again btw. Live the info, the chat, the humour 😁
I was thinking, not to make any more work for Duncan but I would love to see a year end recap, to the end-credit music. Just a collage of the hosts laughing and maybe holding up some of their tech or what not. Sorry if this is odd, but something about this music hits a kind of nostalgia trigger for me and although no one on the panel knows me, I feel like they are long-time friends of mine that join me weekly, with thoughtful, tech, conversations. Thanks so much. Super appreciate all you do.
Great show again this week, nice to see Iain Lee again - would like to see more of him, yea that top 10 list is dodgy, where's the CPC 464? - glad to see the cake got a mention too :)
What Iain said about tinkering with the Mister Pi was most fun is spot on. It's really great for playing all kinds of games and using computers "for real" (FPGA is not emulation!) but I have to admit I had most fun setting up freedos and networking for the 486-core, and building a new system (with networking) for the Amiga core.
A Pentium 133MMX with a 3DFX, 16 MB RAM and a SoundBlaster AWE32 is peak 90s gaming. Make sure that sucker is running Windows 95 (rev B) so it can drop straight into pure DOS.
At 45:00 , that's a very interesting thought actually. For me it's the other way around. We went from an Atom Acorn to a 286, 386, 486, Pentium etc. Mostly because my dad used to be a teacher at school and made the decision to go for IBM computers. (Which he could get for free from school) So all the other things went very much over my head. But it's absolutely fascinating to see what they were all about! 👍🏻😎
My first play on a computer was in late 84. A ZX Spectrum+ that my girlfriend's dad had bought. It wasn't until November 85 that I bought my first computer, that was the rubber keyed ZX Spectrum. It was second hand and box of games came with it. The main shop I used was special reserve every Saturday evening lol. Last time i want to game was the Xbox 360 day's.
Another great show guys, and fantastic nostalgia from Mr Iain Lee! I will be visiting The Cave in early 2025 I promise! It has been on my list for some time now.
Great point about the lack of techno-optimism in mainstream media these days. I really feel like the 80s and 90s were glory days for this kind of thing on the BBC with Micro Live, Tomorrow's World, Horizon and the like. They were serious programmes showing us the potential of the digital future in what was then still a very analogue world.
The 32-bit, ARM powered, standard PC keyboard layout, 1987, Acorn Archimedes range that came with 8-channel sound, and up to 4096 colour SVGA graphics, a pair of BBC Micro emulators (different 6502 variants, clock speeds, and RAM 32k vs 64k, for software compatibility), optionally bundled with a copy of DR-DOS and Acorn's x186 VM layer, as part of the Learning Tree pack, and had third party Free / Shareware Apple II, Commodore, Spectrum, Dragon, ... emulators, along with native ARM ports of Zarch / Virus, Elite, Lemmings, Populous, Cannon Fodder, Speedball 2, Wolfenstein, Alone in the Dark, Zool, Chuck Rock, Repton, ... , surely deserves a mention, the native games being as good as the Amiga offerings, and some of the x386 with Soundblaster, with the option of trying to play those of most the 70s and early 80s, 6502 and Z80, 8-bit predecessors, if you ignore the weird keyboard layouts that made serious playing near impossible on a PC keyboard, let alone with a 3 button Logitech ball mouse.
I am lucky enough to have a dedicated retro gaming corner with a MiSTer Ironclad Plus for all retro systems but a few select systems that the MiSTer cannot run.
I don't know how you can have the Apple II, VIC-20 on the list and no BBC Model B. Or the MSX. Or the CPC464. At least they got the #1 right (although the Spectrum should have been #2). PCs of those days? Horrible. The first machines which could even game were the 486DX but really it was the Pentiums.
Thanks for sharing the top 10 list. The mention of the Coleco ADAM evoked a strong negative reaction in me; I had gone through two defective units before abandoning it for the Commodore 64, with which I was ultimately delighted. I understand the ADAM's inclusion because a properly working unit could play all the Colecovision games plus the small number of enhanced ones made for the ADAM. However, the list was definitely very US-centric and I say that as someone who lives in the US. Even with this in mind the author doesn’t seem well versed in retro gaming discussions with the exclusion of key UK and Japanese computers. the author is well versed in The ADAM should be on the list only if one considers the Colecovision to be an essential platform for playing retro games; and the strongest argument there is that it was one of the first consoles (along with the 5200) to make reasonably faithful ports of arcade games.
Hi, can I ask more about the multisystem that you spoke of with Iain? I also purchased a Taki Udon MisterPi and I'm curious how it can be "consolized". Thanks
I beg to differ on the 99-4A was setup and on display in Hull in 1982. It however very much suffers with being too expensive, slow, poor basic and too little RAM.
The ViC-20 has a bad keyboard but the Atari 400 is beautiful? The 400 “Coke-proof” keyboard was awful and the reason I plunked the extra cash down for an 800.
I wondered if he either has used a particularly beat-up model, or was conflating it with other dubious Commodore keyboards as found on early PETs, the +4, or the notoriously mushy SX64.
I don't want no 80s Casio, I want the sleeker 70s ones with red LEDs. Hopefully always-on instead of the press-to-view and with batteries lasting a bit longer than the original.
The Apple IIGS was not popular generally, but may have, like the BBC Micro, flooded the primary school market. Not sure how the Coleco Adam made the list.
That's the story of Apple generally in the US, but even with that there just weren't enough IIGSes to constitute a flood. A 128k Apple IIe is the only needed representation of that games library. Almost anything else that was a IIGS-specific title would be covered nicely by ST and/or Amiga.
Well there's something...I do have a 14" mono monitor for the ST and a monitor switch box but I don't yet have room for both monitors. Eventually it will happen! There's actually a few good mono games on the ST! (Dave)
@@ThisWeekinRetroI preferred the picture quality of the smaller sm124 over the bigger sm125. Never tried the 14" model. I remember playing Skull-diggery(Boulder dash) and strategy games like Tracker, Empire WotC, and UMS in mono
I think Iain should be a regular co-presenter; wonderful addition to the lineup!
But he has no emotional connections?
as initiation we should shave his head first !
I don't know how he'd feel about having to wet-shave his head every week though.
I think it's a testament to Iian's skill as a presenter and love for the channel that they actually let a bloke with hair co-present! ;)
I have to defend the Vic-20. We were too poor to have a computer, but I was so excited when my dad walked in the house carrying one. I couldn’t believe it. He had been working on people’s cars on the side to make the cash to buy it. I learned to code on it and still making a tidy living in dev 40 years later. It brought me so much joy in those days.
The VIC-20's game library is incredible. There's a strong case that the game library in the first 18 months after its release is better than the C64's during the first 18 months after its release. For whatever reason, VIC coders came to the table ready to make that machine sing.
Its a low budget computer from 1980 that had features some 4000+$ computers from 1990 didn't have so you really got to apricate what it they did .
Iain Lee needs to be on the team.
Great show chaps!
Why a bit grudging about the C64? It has everything you guys should love: Huge back catalogue with plenty of standout games and exclusives. Huge UK sales. Strong and vibrant modern software and hardware scene, and a terrific wider community.
Anyway, thanks for another great watch.🙂
The Model Railway enthusiast thing (18:12) of the previous generation is spot on. I have been saying this for years that retro video games is exactly our generations version of that.
It’s either that or a pool / billiards table.
Dave needs to do a game room tour already!
the Japanese entry that is missing is the MSX. Huge in Japan, huge in South America. Metal Gear started there. Castlevania started there. basically all Konami classics: Gradius, etc.
Well actually. I think you will see that this list is wrong. This is the correct one:
#1 Amiga 500
#2 Amiga 1200
#3 Amiga 4000
#4 Amiga 3000
#5 Amiga 4000T
#6 Amiga 2000
#7 Amiga 600
#8 Commodore CDTV (You see. not all amigas)
#9 Amiga 3000T
#10 Amiga CD32
And I hate ties!
Dammit! The only one I have is an NTSC Commodore Amiga CD32. :(
The Amiga was absolutely iconic. From 87 to 92. Of all the systems I have owned, and still own, the Amiga is the one that generates the most emotion.
#0.5 Atari ST
Loving this week's show and I'm only at the intro lol. Awesome seeing Ian back on. What a friggin cool cat. Love it.
This is the only channel I don't tend to fast forward thru. Always good, tyvm guys.
Congrats on 10k subs before the end of the year! 🥳🎉
The MSX gets such bad press in the UK, mainly due to the cheap Spectrum ports. The Japanese library in particular is fantastic.
Apple II: Lode Runner, Karateka, Castle Wolfenstein, Prince of Persia, King's Quest, Ultima and the list goes on and on.
Apple 2 definitely deserves a place on the list. Need to swap the Adam and TI for the MSX and CPC. PC needs at least one place on the list.
I agree, but probably because I'm in the US. I think Apple had a contract with schools here and it had a big footprint. I grew up in a small town but our schools still had their share of Apple II computers. If memory serves me, the Apple II or its clones were prevalent and gave a lot of people like me a gateway into the computer world.
Love this channel
I agree with Dave. I need to have everything setup, ready to go. Before I had room to have 3 retro computers set up at the same time and would rotate what they were say every 3-4 months. Now I can have about 6 different retro computers set up at once. My wish is for 20.
Note for later...:
"Crafty Log" an Amiga demo
Congratulations on 10k subscribers guys! I can't help but think the show deserves an extra 0 or two in that figure, so here's to further successes and good health, and thank you for brightening my Mondays as I listen to you while working.
First Firebird cover that always comes to my mind is Booty, the covers with a screen-shot and iconic logo always stood out. Great to have Iain back on, really great discussion this week.
Born in 79, and I enjoy retro gaming and train sets! Haha 😃
I do remember the massive CD burners and the reference to WORM being used along with cost of blank CDs.
Listening on a lazy morning before work.. great show! Just got my mister pi setup with the Amigavision front end and it’s amazing!
I remember the keyboard Iain was showing. Wow that really took me back. A friend of mine had one. That keyboard lead me on to wanting the Yamaha portosound vss-30, which I got for Xmas one year after giving some of my birthday money towards it lol. Parents didn't have a lot of money back then. But I loved and looked after it, because I respected the cost of things.
Great show again btw. Live the info, the chat, the humour 😁
Good to see Iain on the show. He's always good value. Hopefully he'll make further appearances on TWIR.
I was thinking, not to make any more work for Duncan but I would love to see a year end recap, to the end-credit music. Just a collage of the hosts laughing and maybe holding up some of their tech or what not. Sorry if this is odd, but something about this music hits a kind of nostalgia trigger for me and although no one on the panel knows me, I feel like they are long-time friends of mine that join me weekly, with thoughtful, tech, conversations.
Thanks so much. Super appreciate all you do.
Great show again this week, nice to see Iain Lee again - would like to see more of him, yea that top 10 list is dodgy, where's the CPC 464? - glad to see the cake got a mention too :)
What Iain said about tinkering with the Mister Pi was most fun is spot on. It's really great for playing all kinds of games and using computers "for real" (FPGA is not emulation!) but I have to admit I had most fun setting up freedos and networking for the 486-core, and building a new system (with networking) for the Amiga core.
Micro live is a show I didn't grow up with but I've been through the bbc archives watching them and I love it! It's dry but it has a charm to it.
Iain is a keeper 👍 Great show guys🤘
A Pentium 133MMX with a 3DFX, 16 MB RAM and a SoundBlaster AWE32 is peak 90s gaming. Make sure that sucker is running Windows 95 (rev B) so it can drop straight into pure DOS.
Dave, I'm jealous of your PCW. My first computer. Fond memories of my 9512, although less so the noise from the Daisy wheel printer.
Going to the Adelaide Retro Computer Group tonight 😀
At 45:00 , that's a very interesting thought actually.
For me it's the other way around.
We went from an Atom Acorn to a 286, 386, 486, Pentium etc.
Mostly because my dad used to be a teacher at school and made the decision to go for IBM computers. (Which he could get for free from school)
So all the other things went very much over my head.
But it's absolutely fascinating to see what they were all about! 👍🏻😎
My first play on a computer was in late 84. A ZX Spectrum+ that my girlfriend's dad had bought.
It wasn't until November 85 that I bought my first computer, that was the rubber keyed ZX Spectrum. It was second hand and box of games came with it.
The main shop I used was special reserve every Saturday evening lol. Last time i want to game was the Xbox 360 day's.
Another great show guys, and fantastic nostalgia from Mr Iain Lee! I will be visiting The Cave in early 2025 I promise! It has been on my list for some time now.
You'll love it Harsh!
I love the immortal on the amiga, but I was rubbish at it :)
Great point about the lack of techno-optimism in mainstream media these days. I really feel like the 80s and 90s were glory days for this kind of thing on the BBC with Micro Live, Tomorrow's World, Horizon and the like. They were serious programmes showing us the potential of the digital future in what was then still a very analogue world.
Love your show!
Good call on Typing of the Dead. Amazing game, I have it on disc for the PC. Would be great on the Dreamcast.
The 32-bit, ARM powered, standard PC keyboard layout, 1987, Acorn Archimedes range that came with 8-channel sound, and up to 4096 colour SVGA graphics, a pair of BBC Micro emulators (different 6502 variants, clock speeds, and RAM 32k vs 64k, for software compatibility), optionally bundled with a copy of DR-DOS and Acorn's x186 VM layer, as part of the Learning Tree pack, and had third party Free / Shareware Apple II, Commodore, Spectrum, Dragon, ... emulators, along with native ARM ports of Zarch / Virus, Elite, Lemmings, Populous, Cannon Fodder, Speedball 2, Wolfenstein, Alone in the Dark, Zool, Chuck Rock, Repton, ... , surely deserves a mention, the native games being as good as the Amiga offerings, and some of the x386 with Soundblaster, with the option of trying to play those of most the 70s and early 80s, 6502 and Z80, 8-bit predecessors, if you ignore the weird keyboard layouts that made serious playing near impossible on a PC keyboard, let alone with a 3 button Logitech ball mouse.
Great episode! The best game machine was of course the "Commodore Plus/4" :)
I dunno: Firebird might've had their stinkers, but I think their overall output was better than most at the time.
Get Barry from Watford on next week!
Yes for Barry or mucky Maureen
I am lucky enough to have a dedicated retro gaming corner with a MiSTer Ironclad Plus for all retro systems but a few select systems that the MiSTer cannot run.
Breaking Bad Influence > GamesMaster
Andy crane as Walter white aka Heisenberg is an image I can’t un imagine lol
The Amstrad CPC 464 should be on that list
I don't know how you can have the Apple II, VIC-20 on the list and no BBC Model B. Or the MSX. Or the CPC464. At least they got the #1 right (although the Spectrum should have been #2). PCs of those days? Horrible. The first machines which could even game were the 486DX but really it was the Pentiums.
Thanks for sharing the top 10 list. The mention of the Coleco ADAM evoked a strong negative reaction in me; I had gone through two defective units before abandoning it for the Commodore 64, with which I was ultimately delighted. I understand the ADAM's inclusion because a properly working unit could play all the Colecovision games plus the small number of enhanced ones made for the ADAM. However, the list was definitely very US-centric and I say that as someone who lives in the US. Even with this in mind the author doesn’t seem well versed in retro gaming discussions with the exclusion of key UK and Japanese computers. the author is well versed in The ADAM should be on the list only if one considers the Colecovision to be an essential platform for playing retro games; and the strongest argument there is that it was one of the first consoles (along with the 5200) to make reasonably faithful ports of arcade games.
Hi, can I ask more about the multisystem that you spoke of with Iain? I also purchased a Taki Udon MisterPi and I'm curious how it can be "consolized". Thanks
Sure, you can find it here: shop.heber.co.uk/mister-multisystem-fpga-console-bundle-in-black-enclosure/
I beg to differ on the 99-4A was setup and on display in Hull in 1982. It however very much suffers with being too expensive, slow, poor basic and too little RAM.
The ViC-20 has a bad keyboard but the Atari 400 is beautiful? The 400 “Coke-proof” keyboard was awful and the reason I plunked the extra cash down for an 800.
I wondered if he either has used a particularly beat-up model, or was conflating it with other dubious Commodore keyboards as found on early PETs, the +4, or the notoriously mushy SX64.
Ian has a Tim Horton’s cup from Canada. As a Canadian I’m reluctantly compelled to comment about it
There's a Tim Hortons about 2 miles from me. Sorry aboot 2 miles. Nice doughnuts!
@ you mean aboot 2 kilometres 🤣🍁
C64 number 1, Amiga number 2 and the rest who cares.
What was the cat up to at 25 minutes? They are such troublemakers.
The Coleco Adam came with a daisywheel printer
I don't want no 80s Casio, I want the sleeker 70s ones with red LEDs. Hopefully always-on instead of the press-to-view and with batteries lasting a bit longer than the original.
like this iain fellow
The Apple IIGS was not popular generally, but may have, like the BBC Micro, flooded the primary school market. Not sure how the Coleco Adam made the list.
That's the story of Apple generally in the US, but even with that there just weren't enough IIGSes to constitute a flood. A 128k Apple IIe is the only needed representation of that games library. Almost anything else that was a IIGS-specific title would be covered nicely by ST and/or Amiga.
Surprised Dave is not playing text adventures on the Atari ST with mono monitor. Rock solid high Res with a super high refresh rate
Well there's something...I do have a 14" mono monitor for the ST and a monitor switch box but I don't yet have room for both monitors. Eventually it will happen! There's actually a few good mono games on the ST! (Dave)
@@ThisWeekinRetroI preferred the picture quality of the smaller sm124 over the bigger sm125. Never tried the 14" model. I remember playing Skull-diggery(Boulder dash) and strategy games like Tracker, Empire WotC, and UMS in mono
it's always a decent listen and watch, but this is one of the better ones. get Iain back on more often!
Yes Iain is brillant, I wish he would do more retro stuff but I will listen to him talk about anything.
@@CharlieWyvill true say. this is the trio we need.
End of Part One ! Burkiss Way on the TV
🙂
Given the subject of this video, I'm sure these guys just want an argument 😂
Ian needs to stop smacking his lips after he finishes a sentence.
Thanks for that. 😂. I hadn't noticed and now it's all I can hear. 😮