Anti-Vax or Anti-Facts? | Sci Guys Podcast #29

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  • Опубліковано 4 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 65

  • @stormagedon3852
    @stormagedon3852 4 роки тому +58

    I put off listening to this because I find, as an autistic person, that a lot of the time people don't address the inherent implications that if vaccines are bad because they cause autism then that means that autism is also bad, to the point that dying is better. I'm really glad that I was wrong. The amount of research you seem to put into these never fails to impress me and it feels like you really took autistic peoples perspective into account something which is unfortunately lacking even when talking about autism. Thank you for taking the time to make this episode comfortable for autistic people to listen to, you didn't necessarily have to do that but it really does make a difference to how we can enjoy and engage with the subject.

  • @abby-hz2xe
    @abby-hz2xe 5 років тому +87

    In terms of an increase in rates of autism, not only are diagnosis methods more accurate but we are also living in a world which is more triggering for people with autism who may be light or noise sensitive compared to 100 years ago

    • @charliev4156
      @charliev4156 4 роки тому +6

      Afab people and people with less “obvious” autistic traits are being actually being diagnosed now as well, those groups weren’t really acknowledged within autism till relatively recently(in the grand scheme of things)

  • @morbius7687
    @morbius7687 4 роки тому +52

    I was diagnosed autistic last year at 17. I realise that I must have had my MMR when all this was in the papers circa 2003. My parents have told me about the fear at the time, but I'm proud they didn't cave into the pressure.
    It strikes me that anti-vaccination beliefs are driven by fear of autism. I think the way to push back is to fight for autism acceptance. My hope is we can eventually dismantle this fear.

    • @michelleflood7225
      @michelleflood7225 3 роки тому +1

      I hope the same thing . My niece was diagnosed at age two , but my sister just had a separate childhood vaccination schedule for her and her younger sister .

  • @MI-dl3zj
    @MI-dl3zj 4 роки тому +9

    I avoided this specific episode for a long time because I like you guys but most UA-camrs get everything regarding autism wrong and I'm autistic so I thought I might find it offensive and I didn't wanted this to change the way I perceive you guys (based on previous experience) you were all very respectful and I love that you did your research and admitted you don't really understand it. Thank you for being so responsible, respectful and ethical guys.

  • @poppyfletcher1439
    @poppyfletcher1439 4 роки тому +24

    I was diagnosed as a 10-year-old and it took a very long time to be diagnosed, as my symptoms were mainly what we liked to call masking techniques that I had picked up from neurotypicals. I think what anti-vaxxers don't understand is autism is a spectrum condition that is from your brain makeup and so it is very hard for a vaccine to literally change brain chemistry.

  • @bethanygibbons3779
    @bethanygibbons3779 4 роки тому +5

    It's great to see a discussion about autism approached so sensitively. I really enjoyed this podcast. As someone who has worked with numerous folk with ASC (and has an austistic brother), I found this really refreshing. Thank you so much for mentioning autistic girls/women/those who mask - I think that alone would be a brilliant podcast. To anyone who may be interested, I recommend reading Carly's Voice - it's a book written by a (predominantly) non-verbal autistic woman who spent many years being seen as someone who had very limited cognitive ability. She gives a really good insight into the condition and is incredibly inspiring.

  • @dan5721
    @dan5721 4 роки тому +23

    Never heard autism explained so well by non-autistics 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

  • @jasminema
    @jasminema 2 роки тому +8

    when I posted on FB about my youngest being diagnosed with autism....one person said "I'm sorry" and I was thinking why?? my child isnt dying he doesn't have a terminal illness...sure raising a child with autism isnt easy (he also has ADHD) but he is alive and is fully vaccinated

  • @lilycrawford
    @lilycrawford 5 років тому +22

    Brilliant podcast, made me so much more aware on the reasons behind antivaxer mindsets and informed me on what I am actually being given in a vaccine. 10/10 podcast.

  • @lemon-tq8zg
    @lemon-tq8zg 4 роки тому +12

    when i was younger i had to wait 2 years until i could get the mmr vaccine and my mom asked every one if they have their children vaccinated cause i was at risk and one of her friends didn’t vaccinate her children and she straight up dropped her

    • @SciGuys
      @SciGuys  4 роки тому +7

      Your mum has the right idea!

  • @abby-hz2xe
    @abby-hz2xe 5 років тому +17

    Amazing, well researched podcast. Loved it

  • @violag8499
    @violag8499 2 роки тому +3

    I love everything about this episode, it aged so well 🤌 I worked at a public charter school in California for 5 yrs where the majority of the students are completely or partially unvaccinated. It was super eye opening to be forced to interact with that demographic and learn first hand that most of the parents were trying to keep their kid safe in the best way they knew how. Multiple students had negative reactions to vaccines (some medically documented in their student files and some just assumed by the parent). The majority of these parents didn't believe in any of the autism conspiracy they were just afraid of their kid getting more sick, having more strokes, losing more physical mobility, etc. Of course there was also a weird crossover of the super conservative Christian parents that didn't let their kids get vaccines because they don't trust the government but also won't talk to anyone who works at public school about it because we're "working for the government."
    I think a lot of people come to the conclusion of not allowing vaccinated kids in public school because of what yall said, but it's important to remember that the unvaccinated children are *victims* in this situation and are at the mercy of their parents decisions. At least in the US, children have no autonomy to choose to get vaccinations until they're an adult (18). Think about what those unvaccinated kids are getting set up with if you don't allow them in public schooling- being homeschooled means their parents are the only ones who decide what they learn and what is shown to the children as proof. If those parents have massive and thorough conspiracy theories about the government, or at least a (possibly rational from their perspective) fear of medical establishments coupled with rejection from the rest of society, including public schools, because of that fear, how accurate of information do you think that child will be raised with? Do you think that kid will ever be given access to correct scientific information about vaccines? If so, will they have the same kind of mentality that their parents do, where they shut down all logic because of fear? How well-informed do you think they will be by the time they are an adult and entering society, maybe even having their own kids? We've GOTTA give kids access to information, even if that means a scaled back version of public school, for example partially online and only one day a week on campus....idk something that isn't just "sorry kid, your parents decided to not vaccinate you so now you get no access to education or free lunches, hopefully your parents will be able to provide those things".

    • @mossly9785
      @mossly9785 10 місяців тому

      I appreciate that you're coming from a compassionate place and I agree that the kids of antivaxxer parents are victims in the situation. The thing you sort of miss though is that the unvaccinated children are risking mass death if they are allowed in public. Not just their own death but the deaths of other children, their families, etc.

  • @nathancha834
    @nathancha834 4 роки тому +4

    I honestly appreciate it so heckin much how wholesome you guys are. All about this deconstructing toxic masculinity and being respectful in language about neurodivergence. Thank u so much for that ❤️❤️❤️

  • @morbius7687
    @morbius7687 4 роки тому +12

    I think it's interesting that the question even gets asked: what causes autism? No one asks: what causes someone to be neurotypical? There's an inherent value judgement, that autistic people are somehow broken or unacceptable.

    • @notcorry
      @notcorry 4 роки тому +5

      Morbius 76 I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Science asks questions about everything. We don’t ask what causes someone to be neurotypical because we know a fair bit about that already since we’ve been studying how neurotypical brains develop for a long time. I think the “what causes autism” question could be as innocuous as asking what causes red hair. There doesn’t need to be a value judgement attached, just a recognition of a potential difference in (epi)genetics/development that results in someone being autistic. Yes, some people will ask that question because they are bigoted, but the question itself is not a bigoted one

  • @xstarkidx8064
    @xstarkidx8064 4 роки тому +3

    It's important to note that the autism spectrum is more of a color wheel rather than a linear spectrum. It's not just "slight" and "severe". Every autistic person has their own personal challenges and benefits. Some are better at things than others. (I was diagnosed at age 19 but there were lots of signs, just nobody noticed that I wasnt just a weird kid.)

  • @anniefaye1948
    @anniefaye1948 4 роки тому +5

    It'd be really amazing to see you guys further discuss the differences in autism in males and autism in females and why females are often left undiagnosed or diagnosed late in life.

    • @rachaelevans8351
      @rachaelevans8351 3 роки тому

      just a note, iilaumingatii (think that's how you spell it) did a whole video on it

  • @phoenixember2179
    @phoenixember2179 4 роки тому +4

    It's not that we can't read social cues (for me, at least). It takes me a while of knowing someone to learn that specific person's social cues. When I get to that point, it's very easy and I notice some cues from that person that other people don't.

  • @vanessa8642
    @vanessa8642 4 роки тому +4

    Parts of this video should also be shown to people regarding their fear of a corona virus vaccine...

  • @molono1451
    @molono1451 4 роки тому +6

    Ever since I discovered Jammidodger I realized how much I actually love to learn. I'm an auditorial learner and this stuff is really fascinating. I love videos on the science behind Lgbtq people and other things that go on in the brain. I also feel incredibly uneducated for my age and would love to fix that. My vocabulary isn't good for my age but idk how to fix that and I'd much rather learn about these things. Thank you.

    • @morgant5680
      @morgant5680 4 роки тому +1

      Reading frequently is a great way to increase your vocabulary because ot exposes you to a wide range of new words in context which helps you to understand the meaning. You say you're an auditorial learner and I imagine audiobooks have the same effect. There are quite a few audiobooks in the public domain (mostly classics, I listened to Jekyll and Hyde for free), so that you don't have to pay an audible subscription fee. I wish you the best of luck in your learning! :)

  • @phoenixdaniels212
    @phoenixdaniels212 4 роки тому +3

    What hurts me most ,as an autistic person, about the whole not vaccinating your kids because they think vaccines can cause autism is that you would rather your kids die of diseases like polio than have your child be autistic? I may be bias but autism is nowhere near as bad as loosing your life. I am happy with being autistic, if I had the choice I wouldn't change that I had autism. Being autistic isn't some awful thing that ruins your life. It can make things harder sure but we know nothing different. Your kids wouldn't be mad that you vaccinated them and they developed autism even if it did cause it (which it doesn't).

  • @AnimilesYT
    @AnimilesYT Рік тому +1

    As an autistic person I think the discussion should change. Even if vaccines cause autism that doesn't mean that it is not worth the risk of having an unvaccinated child. Hardly anyone knows what autism actually is. The common knowledge is that we're people who have poor social skills. But that's just a small part of autism which not every autistic person has. Over or undersensitivity is also a big part of autism. The most problems people face with autistic people is that they have to deal with an untreated traumatized person. If you raise an autistic person well then you won't have many issues. If you don't raise them well then they'll end up very traumatized (I speak from personal experience) and it will be very difficult for you.
    So once people know what autism actually is then they wouldn't want to risk their child dying from one of those diseases even if it could cause autism. And it would prevent a lot of trauma for autistic people at the same time

  • @miriamfelman3591
    @miriamfelman3591 5 років тому +13

    Where I live, you can’t go to public school if you’re not vaccinated. 😁

    • @helennewson3862
      @helennewson3862 4 роки тому

      damnnnn. where do you live lol

    • @Blahblahblood
      @Blahblahblood 4 роки тому

      I think they send u to get them if u don’t have them in my school

    • @coralovesnature
      @coralovesnature 4 роки тому +1

      as it should be

    • @roninnib6635
      @roninnib6635 3 роки тому +1

      Where do you live

    • @zenngomez8390
      @zenngomez8390 3 роки тому +1

      That's the same where I live (Portugal). You have a booklet that your doctor updates with each vaccine that you have and that way you prove that you are vaccinated and not a risk to the other children and their families. It's a great system and I'm glad it's in place because that way I know that I have had the vaccines I need.

  • @yoinksscoob4889
    @yoinksscoob4889 4 роки тому

    I love this podcast :) I am autistic and I'm both fascinated and confused by the anti-vax movement, so I really enjoyed this episode, and it helped me to understand why some people have been led to believe that vaccines are harmful, despite that not being the case at all. I did previously question whether anti-vaxxers just enjoy feeling as though they know something that the majority of the population don't know, thus they would feel 'special' in a way, because they know the 'truth', but the idea that the anti-vax movement consists mainly of parents who are concerned by the idea of raising an autistic child in a neurotypical world makes more sense to me.

  • @phoenixember2179
    @phoenixember2179 4 роки тому +1

    The fact that some people actually believe that autism is something people can catch is insane! It's a genetic trait. There are several autistic people on both sides of my extended family and my mom, one of my siblings and me are also autistic. My mom is antivax for other reasons, so I wasn't vaccinated until I was 21 and finally got over the fear of vaccines that was instilled in me at a young age.

  • @edwardrodgers31
    @edwardrodgers31 5 років тому +6

    Love the podcast keep on doing what u are doing

  • @bradthemusicduck4895
    @bradthemusicduck4895 3 роки тому +1

    The problem with the "Big Pharma" argument is that pharmaceutical companies make (relatively speaking) a scant amount of money from vaccines in comparison to pharmaceuticals that many people take for their entire lives (blood pressure medicine, diabetes insulin, etc). Also, vaccines are relatively cheap and only have to be taken once , or maybe twice with a booster.
    Someone on a lifetime subscription of meds has to buy those medications year-round, and the cost to patients and insurance companies can be astronomical. In short, Big Pharma would have very little financial motivation to "cover up" vaccine side effects.

  • @SindriMjolnir
    @SindriMjolnir 4 роки тому +2

    It’s sort of like drunk driving. Why shouldn’t you have the right to down a few drinks and then take your car out for a spin? The simple reason is that by doing that you present a serious danger to the people around you. A single drunk driver can kill a bus-load of people, so we as a society came up with the crazy idea that maybe drunk drivers shouldn’t be tolerated on public roads.

  • @snorkfyren
    @snorkfyren 4 роки тому +2

    even if there existed a small increased rate of autism it would be better than it being a common problem of children dying of these diseases. not to mention the people who might have to live with defects after being sick. there are alot of complications to these illnesses outside of dying. so the whole autism argument is still bad even if it was true, because we know that if it would be true, it would in no way affect a big percentage concidering all the people who have been vaccinated in the world. antivaxers seem to think that these illnesses aren't as bad as autism, but if we lived in a society where no one was vaccinated, their children would be in much greater danger than they currently are. it used to be common to get a load of children because they assumed some would die of illness along the way. yes we do have better treatment now than a hundred years ago, but then hospitals would be more loaded with people, which would affect who is prioritised. i assume there would also be a higher use of antibiotics in the population, and therefore more resistant bacterias in general, and this is just bad for everything. we are far better off with a few more people with autism

  • @cascadetv1435
    @cascadetv1435 5 років тому +1

    These are awesome. Makes me want to start a podcast

  • @michelleflood7225
    @michelleflood7225 3 роки тому

    Corey autism is a neurological condition where children don’t understand social cues and aren’t able to read facial expressions some can be nonverbal , but not always . Diagnosis is done when children are toddlers so between two to five years old . Aspergers is more high functioning autism and is named for the person that discovered the condition .

  • @pokemonfanthings4444
    @pokemonfanthings4444 2 роки тому +1

    I have autism and epilepsy and never knew they had a notable co-morbidity rate

  • @JJapsen
    @JJapsen 4 роки тому +1

    I'm from germany. My daughter got one of her vaccinations not at the recommended time (as in a few weeks late) because of a missed apontment and some misunderstandings and (basically our version of) the cps was in in contact with me so fast... Of course they wouldn't have been able to take my child away solely because of that. Espacially because I could explain what happened. But I'm sure if I would have refused to get my child vaccinated they could have made further investigations about the childs health and safety and I think that's how it should be. Because if you say a little bit of autism is worse than the death of your own child, you shouldn't be allowed to raise a child, sorry.

  • @margaritatowl7248
    @margaritatowl7248 4 роки тому +2

    Heya, this may seem fesecious but calling autistic traits 'symptoms' can be perceived as offensive as it implies something negative. Symptoms indicate disease, which (as you pointed out) is NOT what autism is.
    Great podcast though - thanks for shedding some light onto this 💕

  • @pingaspingas8648
    @pingaspingas8648 5 років тому +3

    The first time I rode a bike I rode over a metal box and got stuck under my bike

  • @samsarsero4468
    @samsarsero4468 5 років тому +6

    hey what’s the email for the podcast i’d love to send you one :)

    • @abby-hz2xe
      @abby-hz2xe 5 років тому +3

      Sam Sarsero sciguyspod@gmail.com

  • @molono1451
    @molono1451 4 роки тому +1

    They had us in the first (entire video until the last sentence) not gonna lie

  • @natrosenquist
    @natrosenquist 4 роки тому +1

    I know someone who is anti-vax when it comes to their children, but doesn't think even twice when it comes to vaccinations for their pets. Make it make sense!

  • @bowenjennings6084
    @bowenjennings6084 4 роки тому +1

    40:45 Hydrogen Dioxide is not water, Dihydrogen Oxide (or Dihydrogen Monoxide [H2O] ) is water. Hydrogen Dioxide (or Dihydrogen Dioxide or Hydrogen Peroxide [H2O2]) is a bit more of a concern if (in large amounts) it were to be found in your apples.

    • @SciGuys
      @SciGuys  4 роки тому +1

      Whoops! Slip of the tongue!

  • @ButterflyonStone
    @ButterflyonStone 2 роки тому

    Didn't Chanel 5 UK do a rubbish drama at the time about one of the mum's stories? I only have a very vague memory of it, but the media was a major contributor to this.

  • @jennyabrahall6961
    @jennyabrahall6961 3 роки тому

    in terms of flu jabs, vulnerable under 18’s are given a nasal shot, i don’t know if the ingredients are different but it’s not the same thing and i don’t get the same reaction from the nasal than the shot, the nasal one is much milder in terms of my response

    • @SciGuys
      @SciGuys  3 роки тому +1

      Nasal is a live-attenuated (weakened) virus and the jab is an inactivated (killed) virus

  • @franziner.3444
    @franziner.3444 4 роки тому

    My mom thinks I have scoliosis because she vaccinated me. Even though my grandmother had it too. That totally makes sense, because scoliosis normally skips on generation and its more common in women. There are no studies that even hint at a connection. This is not about logic.

  • @ZombieFighter95
    @ZombieFighter95 4 роки тому

    Bleuler was Swiss tho, not German.