@@TheSteam02 Or ..... Maybe the rest of us take 70 years to actually manage to get to the point that we can attempt to experiment with it through an honest living and by then while we are trying to remember what we were going to do once we got that far, we are also trying to remember who that woman is that is in the house, who's house we are in, where that dog came from, if it is twilight because it is morning or because it is evening, trying to remember if we were getting into bed or coming out of bed, and trying to figure out when we got that bullet scar.
@@alessandroseverino8222 Shad himself has made videos on how to grapple a blade with your bare hand. It's perfectly possible. But you need one hell of a strong grip.
@alexandresobreiramartins9461 actually it is possible. In a life-and-death situation significant damage to your off hand to hang up your opponents weapon long enough for you to run him through has been done. It's a last resort but it's better than death.
@@danielcox7629 They are semi-trained quasi-professionals, of course there is a fire extinguisher ready. What will they say when there is an accident? "See, officer, so here I was when I agreed to let my legal employer beat me up with a flaming sword." They needed to do _all_ the precautions here.
Once again Shad has made a contribution of INCALCUABLE worth to creatives and enjoyers of fiction. Shadiversity has rapidly become the Golden Era Discovery Channel of the Fantasy genre.
That's not to far off actually. Especially when you take in his love for adding that "lived-in" realism that encourages one to be sucked into a story. Like old school star wars 😊
One of my favorite uses of a flaming weapon in fantasy literature was in the Forgotten Realms novels, when the orcish warlord Obould Many-Arrows raised his blade to indicate a strike from above, quickly suppressed the magic of the blade and struck from below, catching his opponent off-guard, because the lingering flames and their impression on the eyes hid the change in stance. It's nice to see this confirmed as plausible by your testing results.
Circus guy here. I've actually done shows and performances with my own fire sword and pretty much everything you've said is spot on. The one I built for myself is based off a katana type sword (I based it off my bokken to make it closer to something of be used to using), and that circular guard is really good for protecting your hand from the flames. If you use a layer of some metal and a backing layer of wood you can hold it pretty much like normal (even bare handed). I did have to make the guard a fair bit wider than normal to cover my hand though. As for the advantages, aside from the intimidation factor from the fire I think it's more the fact that you can't quite see where the blade is coming from that gives the biggest advantage. Even with choreographed fights I've had situations where my "opponent" has missed the blade despite knowing beforehand what I would do. It's like being attacked with a big area of uncertainty rather than a sword. Certainly a lot more blocking rather than parrying involved. I've never done any cutting tests with mine (had to deliberately remove any sharp edges because UK law is weird at times) so I don't really know anything about that, so it's really interesting to see the way it affects the way it affects the test meat. Most important part though, that I think you absolutely nailed: all tactical advantages and disadvantages pale in comparison to the simple fact that fire swords are JUST SO BLOODY COOL!
So, UK law allows you to literally set a sword on fire and fight with it for entertainment purposes, but sharp edges are a no-no? Laws really don't make much sense sometimes
@@door-chan Curved blades are illegal, presumably it came about to try and curb ownership of katanas after they were popularized in the eighties, though I haven't looked into the details of the origin. So yeah, if despite being easily purchasable, katana or cavalry sabres or anything like that are illegal... unless you are a part of a re-enactment organisation, or the blade is authentic, made before a certain time (can't recall what year the blade has to be older than). What gets silly is when a friend first learnt of this law, he looked it up, and strictly speaking, if fencing and the rapier gets bent into a curve from an impact... it's now an illegal item. Cue many laughs about a police officer tackling a fencer at a tournament because the rapier/coil bent out of shape. Anybody more educated on this law feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. I myself only learnt about this law two weeks ago and mostly from hearing a conversation between friends.
Also, the animal factor. Cavalry charging infantry. Infantry lights up swords. Horses say hard pass, and stop obeying. Or, in fantasy games, fighting wolves etc. Lots of animals are more afraid of fire than us, and we are pretty darn warey of it. It does really put the duel with the Hound and that leader of the fire guys into an interesting light (tried to avoid the pun, but just got off night shift and legit could not find other words), with how effective the sword actually is, pluss the Hound's fear of fire. As some one who got third degree burns from a gas fire as a teen, I feel for the Hound, that sword swinging at me looks like a big pile of nope.
I did some Googling and it turns out that above 600 Degrees Fahrenheit is generally when steel begins to lose its temperature, water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. The human body 70% water and I remember something from a former Papa John's employee that 140 or 120 something is when the human mouth starts to burn. The rest of the body is surely not much more heat resistant than that-so if you get a low 200 to 300 degrees heat in Fahrenheit then you can probably get the benefits of fire aspect without the disadvantage of ruining the temper if there ever was one.
This would be a really interesting test to do with pole arms. People wouldn’t be too heart broken about ruining the tip of a spear. The source of the flame would also be further from your body and closer to the enemy.
Conversely, a flame-bladed axe (with fuel lines set along the edge) could be a morbidly effective hack-and-slash type of weapon assuming the blade can be kept sharp
@Anthony David as Shad already went crazy about in his two headed axe video a year ago, even if a battle axe's blade is somewhat dull, it's still gonna be lethal. That's just how incredibly dangerous axes are in battle with even the most basic knowledge on how to use one
@Rach Darastrix There's also vibroblades, which no one seemed to know about unless you read the old Dark Horse comics or played KOTOR 1/2. They're common knowledge now, but before Disney you needed to be a hard-core nerd to know that. And yes, just sayin', the energy used to vibrate the blade at super high frequencies makes it an energy sword, just not as ostensible as ones that glow or are pure energy.
I've been spinning fire sword for years now, with a background in HEMA, fencing, and Shinkageryu. The hardest part? NEVER STAY IN ANY LOW GUARD. The flame climbs up.
They didn't say anything about it, but at 12:31 it shows very clearly what happens when the blade is pointed straight down. You definitely would not want to hold onto that!
Consider only having the wick on the upper half of the blade. That would put the fire as close to your opponent while further from you, and it would take longer for the heat to get to the hilt, also the blade wouldn't get as hot as quick.
@@Khornedevotee regardless, I will forever support this channel because of how passionate Shad and his team are with regards to the content they bring. They deserve every inch of Support and Praise.
For a flaming blade user, I could see a good tactic being to throw a jar of highly flammable liquid over the opponent, that shatters on impact, and then using the blade to set them alight.
I was watching some battles that were done at some kind of event, during it there was a guy that was fighting with torches and carrying a bottle of alcohol with him, during the fight he would spit the alcohol at them making a massive fire ball. (Disclaimer: They planned it out and they use a shield to block it from hitting anyone).
I'd think it more effective to simply light a rag or wick of something in the conventional molotov-style before throwing it, as trying to light it after would require connecting with an adequately soaked spot. On a mildly relevant note: liquids are heavy, and while it wouldn't be unreasonable to carry a few such jars when you knew you'd need them (trolls, duels without rules against it, ect...), it wouldn't be worth the extra load if you were either unsure you were going to need it, or if you were going to need a battle-fields worth of it.
This tactic was actually used at war with flamethrower tanks... most of the time they didn't even have to turn on the flame, just a "wet squirt" on the bunker was enough for the crew inside to start waving the white flag...
Realistically, in a fantasy setting, unless prohibited by the setting's magic, it seems like anyone wealthy and skilled enough to be willing to get an enchanted fire sword would also maybe have access to gauntlets enchanted for fire resistance (you could even argue that this might be cheaper than the sword itself, too, depending on how the magic system is structured, since the blade might already have to have fire resistance under its flaming enchantments to keep it from melting or warping, so it's just doing half the job over again). Which would not only aid the wielder in normal fighting, but it might also allow for half-swording, even. Also, it could be a nice worldbuilding detail to accompany such swords with mention that they can only be made by master enchanters... and give mention to how easily it destroys the sword when done wrong.
There would be one disadvantage, and that is self-defense against an unexpected attack. If you don't happen to be wearing the enchanted gauntlets at the time (do you plan on wearing them 24/7?) you have to be prepared to use the sword without your gauntlets on. I guess you can just keep the flames off in such a scenario. Or I guess you could accept the inconvenience of wearing the gauntlets all the time, whenever there is any risk of being ambushed or such.
@@Tennouseijin You could also carry a sidearm for that scenario, if the magic system in question prohibits turning-off the sword (ie. if the sword lights itself from the moment it leaves its sheath). Or you might see wielders of such a sword wear thick, comfortable gloves on the regular-something that may not be enchantable or remotely as heat-resistant, but would be easy to wear for day to day stuff and would protect your hands just enough in a pinch. Though, that last solution would be *_immensely_* inconvenient in hot climates.
Being magic, it would also be possible for it to generate what would effectively be a heat resistant shield around the wielder's hand at the very least, if not the wielder's whole body. It would also imagine the magic also shielding the blade from the heat so that that the blade does not get particularly hot, if at all, and not lose its tempering.
In D&D all magic weapons are very hard to break, don't need any sharpening, does not rust, and are immune to all elemental damage, so no special gloves are needed. Also magic fire is more potent than normal fire and can burn under water, without air etc..
Fear factor + having to keep the blade further from yourself + need to protect you hand from the heat + even a non-cut touch can make your opponent reel in pain = actually, a flaming fencing sword would make a lot of sense !
Sorry for not doing many of these guys, 1:48 how it works 3:58 goal of today and problems 5:25 sparing ans thoughts Summary, hard to see blade and actions, intimidating, 9:50 vs sheld 11:46 vs pork 12:55 shad beating his meat Thoughts on cuttimg 14:54 thoughts on everything... And inprovments 16:00 cutting tests 17:30 problems
*roasting marshmallows over your own flaming sword...come on Shad, do it for your patrons...do it for the children who love toasted marshmallows and diebeetus*
Something to factor in is if the flame is created with magic it could potentially have a much, much hotter flame than what you're able to achieve with a wick or chemicals. So you can increase the melting factor a lot in a fantasy setting.
Indeed. We are talking at least 10 times hotter (if not more). There is a big difference between a chemical-burning sword that operates at 500-600°F, and a magical blade that could do 5000-10,000°F. Also, the blade would not automatically be black from use, as it wouldn't gather deposits of carbonized hydrocarbons like the chemical blade. Certain enemies struck might not leave anything behind on the blade, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. Granted, creatures that are capable of bleeding would leave blood on the blade when struck, which would quickly blacken.
Imagine the blade as having 2 effects: flame resistance for the blade itself and chemical splash at the end t goes away from the hilt on enough contact. Light it up at the start or do it after already hitting the enemies shield, weapon, and clothes.
I like the mix of advantages and drawbacks mentioned. It immediately had me thinking of how so many RPGs would have talents like _Playing with Fire_ that would give more power at a cost. I really enjoy your guys' talks about how a more irl-accurate D&D would be designed.
Hey Shad, not exactly on topic but I just watched an old video by thehistorysquad, an old English gentleman who does a lot of history videos especially about the middle ages. He worked at castles giving tours, among other things, and is an archer. In his video 'Recommended medieval arrows for longbow archery' he shows an incendiary arrow that he got the recipe from an older medieval scholar. He doesn't give the recipe but says that it contains some gunpowder. He also says that experiments he's done show that it will burn for 20 minutes after it hits the target. Just thought you might want to check the video out, and his others, he's a fun narrator and they're great to watch.
sounds like the guy is full of it. gunpowder burns very rapidly. that aside. for something to burn for 20 minutes, with modern materials no less, youd be talking about something around the size and weight of a road flare. put that on the end of your arrow and see how far you can get it to go. spoiler alert, it wont.
@@commie4164 Just need to have a second gunpowder charge strapped to the arrow to provide thrust... and a couple of solutions later you've just reinvented the actual chinese artillery.
I personally always liked the fire sword from Fallout, the Shishkebab. The aesthetic is just perfect. Motorcycle tank on your back, surgical tubing running to a motorcycle handle as the handle, with fuel and spark being triggered by the handbrake, setting alight a sharpened lawnmower blade. And because it uses gas as the fuel it can most definitely set enemies ablaze.
I have issues with that iteration of the shishkebab if it’s hastily put together. The issue is that if your opponent can cut the fuel line, you’re fucked as now you have no fire sword but are now leaking flammable liquid everywhere. Not to mention getting shot in the tank could be devestating depending on the fuel type being used. Military flamethrowers the fuel used needed a higher temperature to ignite, and so a bullet shooting at the chamber wouldn’t per se make it explode, but rather the fuel would just leak out, but if it were ignited it would be devastating. ESPECIALLY if the fuel is gasoline. Fallout 4’s shishkebab has the fuel tank in the blade itself. This would mean that while it may not keep alight for as long as the FO3 shishkebab, it will certainly be safer
Love it! Ok imagine this: a spear-length torch (which is actually the more common length, unlike what we see in movies) with blades on the sides. You're keeping the flame further away from yourself, it has more fuel and flame time, and greater area denial and charge effectiveness. For bonus points you could also have a clay vial of pitch on your belt. If an opponent is well protected from your torch (like with the shield), toss the pitch pot at them to coat in sticky conflagration.
8:48 An easy ay to keep the sword with thread burning longer is to dowse it in wax. it'd make it burn 3-5 times as much additionally the sword would be dripping bits of hot burning wax
D&d purposes I would say balancing could be 1d4 additional fire damage, -2 to attack roll but rolled with advantage vs target without shield, but keeping the -2 attack roll penalty vs shielded targets rolled without advantage.
An interesting point is that the fire doesn't have to extend all the way down the blade. The fire could probably stop around where the ricasso would typically start. That way, you would keep most of the advantages from intimidating your opponent and obscuring the blade, without having it be such a danger to your hand.
Great video guys. A follow up video of fire sword Vs sword and torch perhaps?/ Do you think any other flaming weapon would be better/ actually realistically doable say a flaming Warhammer ect? 👍 Can't afford to join but hope revenue turns around.
@@franohmsford7548 Only for short battles thanks to the Laws of Thermodynamics and all. Eventually the ricasso would grow hot, then the cross guard, hilt, and pommel. Even if not to the same extent as the source of the heat, you would not want to hold a flaming blade for too long. Besides... that sort of defeats half the purpose of a ricasso, no? Leverage?
I am pretty certain that us, most animals and easily by extension a lot of fantasy creatures, have some instinctive fight or flight response to fire and seeing it be waved around in your face is gonna put you off. That I would guess was a big part of why initially he was so caught off guard to be attacked with it. After explanation and the shield being there the rational human mind starts to kick in but I dunno if it'd drop off. Obviously won't work because practical limitations of reality but it'd be a wise investment for magic. Good luck making an enchanted electrical, ice and phase blade. I expect holy/unholy swords too.
Oh boy, there are videos of lighting swords. They don't look how you expect. The electricity, rather than coating the blade, shoots a little lighting bolt about a foot long out the top of the sword and sometimes the bottom (while in a rest stance). Then when it is pointed at a metal target it straight up shoots a lightning blast out the tip of the blade. RPG's need to update their approach to lightning enchanted blades; they become range weapons aside from adding shock to the blade's physical attack. Wielding a lightning enchant would probably be something you only do if you are alone because that thing will attack anything metal.
I'd imagine a polearm would also give the same effect as the shield. If you're keeping them at bay, the fire isn't nearly such an immediate worry unless you covered your entire Spear in dried grass or something
Yes and no, like he explained the bright light also obscures the blade, which makes nuances in the fight get lost, like wether you stab or slash as he explained, you simply cannot tell when the fire hides the blade. So there is a tangible effect that is not just the mind and that getting used to won't necesserrily help you with. Also fire is hot. Rational human mind here or there, you WILL fight a fire sword differently because with a normal sword, as long as the edge can't hit you, you're golden. With a fire sword, even proximity to the blade can be harmful. I do think you overestimate the influence of mental intimidation. There are quite a few key points that are just physical influences that getting used to won't do much.
This has got to be the coolest thing youve tested yet. Got a lot of Gwyn (DS1) vibes from this. Shoutouts to you in general for the amazing content youve been pumping out lately !
Hey, hobby bladesmith here, thought I'd give my two cents regarding the tempering being lost. It's difficult to precisely make out because of the soot on the blade but at 13:54 it looks like the steel barely got a straw color in some spots which would be around 200 - 240 °C (390 - 460 °F) which I would say is within the tempering range for a sword. Could be interesting to test it with an infrared thermometer after use, because my guess would be that the temper wouldn't be ruined. Unless that silvery look is actually past blue but I don't think an open flame would get it that hot. Anyways, great video, I love all the fantasy stuff you guys are testing!
I was initially wondering the fire sword could be something travelers could use in order to scare off wild animals until the points of it ruining the taper came up. But I suppose they already have torches for that
Well yes they already have torches for that but if you can carry less to carry more of something else why wouldn't you. You are trading torches for extra rope or what ever the wik and fuel would be. In my mind that is a good weight trade so you can carry more food or other supplies that are more important.
fire swords are for boss fights, they can ruin the temper of your weapon. And they had to drill though the sword to make it work and that further hurts the sword. Instead of could just weld a torch scone to your shield and have the glare in front of your enemy while having the shield blocking the glare from your face, that would be a huge advantage and not cumbersome most of the time.
@@xxbeastmode-sh3iv The time is also an important part though. It's very easy and quick to make a torch. Not so much this sword. Especially for wild animals when they attack things have to happen quick, I feel like preparation time and maintenance work for fire swords is through the roof compared to torches, which are much easier and faster to do.
From a DnD perspective, I think if you gave a fire-sword to a warforged With metal parts as blackened as the sword itself, there should be a huge intimidation bonus.
The thing is most if not all flaming swords in fantasy are magic items and thus aren't affected by the problems these guys had (flame not lasting or ruining the temper of the blade) so the wielder doesn't have to treat it any different then a normal sword
@@strifenineteen With weak magic systems you are right, but the point of this video is to make you think it through. _If your magic system is sufficiently fleshed out, it becomes indistinguishable from science._ And that is where this experiment comes in. This is physics: Flames that are 1000-2000°C hot, will mess with the metallurgy of your sword. Going hotter, you are risking meltdowns, too. Flames that are not really hot (like illusionary ones) are also not combat-effective as fire-swords. Magical nonconductive metal that you specifically invent to be as good as steel but also to withstand the fury of sunfire-flame-magics... that metal is a whole new level of handwaving. And also going to be used for armor. _Extremely rare_ magic-metal that will withstand firemagic, is not going to be forged into swords in the first place, as that would be a huge waste of material. And finally, the fire-swords won't magically cool themselves after use, either, unless you make it a whole new enchantment.
@@Enyavar1that’s just your own interpretation of what a soft magic system could represent, it being near indistinguishable from science doesn’t automatically mean it acts like science. Looks≠function.
@@Enyavar1 While I definitely do enjoy more well detailed magic, one thing I'll have to disagree with is the idea a rare metal would *never* be made into weapons. People make things out of whatever they have, and generally it being a waste is the one of the least concerns, unless it's something limited but essential like food or water in times of need. Especially in medieval times, when forests were not preserved as they felt it was a practically endless resource. If a rare metal was discovered, especially in a medieval/fantasy type setting where such a thing wouldn't be known to everyone, it would depend heavily on who found it and what they were like what would happen to it. I mean think of all the absolutely useless pretty trinkets that's been made from everything from lead to copper to gold, all because some king or queen wanted a pretty necklace or fancier crown. If a rare metal was found I think it'd be more than possible someone might recognize it's usefulness if it was found by the right person. What it's *best* used for tho may or may never ever be a question in the users mind.
@@isaace436 I did not say "never" or spoke absolutively. I said "not going to (be used that way)". Just remember: the first iron that we humans discovered, was so rare we only fashioned it into jewelry. It took us a long time before we had enough iron (and the processes) to economically forge weapons or tools from it. And types of iron armor directly at the same time. And that was my statement: fire-proof magical metal swords means fire-proof magical armor. Or they are regular metal that is subject to wear and tear just like in the video, and you have to struggle with material upkeep and all the other issues Shad, Tyrant and the other guy recognized here. All I'm saying is that if you create a fictional world, you might want to consider the magic system, but also how it affects the physics and economics in that world, and how the economy and physics influence the (usefulness of the) magic in return. For example, I will repeat that fire-maces seem more useful as weapons of war when compared to fire-swords. And fire-nunchucks are completely nuts. Yet all three ideas are possible, strictly spoken.
From all that was said, I believe you have found that the flaming polearm, poleaxe, and halberd would be highly effective. Good reach, keep the fire away from the user and intimidate the enemy. There is also a packing peanut goo... that may be able to be applied in a hurry that burns well.
The biggest issue is you may begin to anneal the metal taking away the heat treating. Then you basically have a weakened softer steel sword that’s hot. Also, the way you did it with holes obviously weakens the sword. Thanks for pointing this out too Shad!
This was a great video. Honestly I'd like to see this same experiment tested with spears, pikes and pole arms. I feel this strategy could have alot more potential viability if you have more reach and because its a spearhead/ pole arm, you would be using up alot less material. I would love to see you guys test this out but either way I look forward to the next video. Keep it up lads! 👍
@@ragnarian I agree a mace could work too, you wouldn't have to worry about the fire damaging the weapon as much as its just a bludgeon. Honestly the more types of melee weapons they test this strategy with the better.
A Fire sword in DND would also have an environment, anomaly; a monster effect, possibly ally moral boost, and be quite useful an after battle healing effect. The sword may set the grans lands on fire by accident but the swamps should be fine. A fire drake might be attracted to the fire while a fairy would flee in terror. You allies may get a moral boost or be scared. "He's using the fire sword. Now we are on the attack." OR "This is bad. He had to use the fire sword." Lastly, healing. After the battle, "Does anyone need a wound cauterized?"
I have few additional ideas: 1. Checking different fuel types for damage. 2. Checking how burning fuel getting at the opponent will impact the fight. 3. Checking single-edged sword for cutting test (with the line going behind blade and not widening it).
Shad deserves more views and all of the support in the world. It’ll be a sad day if this channel couldn’t continue due to lack of funds. I literally fall to sleep to these videos 😢
In RPGs like the Final Fantasy series characters with elemental weapons have an innate resistance to the same element. So they’re can be slightly resistant to their weapon to full immunity from their to just absorbing the elemental damage as healing.
In 5e terms "a nonmagical -1 to attacks, +2 fire damage. Opponents you attack get disadvantage on their next attack against you. You gain advantage on intimidation checks while the blade is lit."
@@RobKinneySouthpaw Hm. Dunno about the basic statistics for two-handers, but I'd balance a this as a 1d12 +2d4 fire effect. 1d4 for yourself in case of a critical miss. Each charge of the magic effect lasts for 1d4 minutes and increases the number that counts as a critical miss by 1. After six uses, this means you have a 50% chance of a critical miss. That is, until you have the sword repaired by a flamesword-guild-certified blacksmith.
As a huge fan of practical effects in movies and TV, this would be a super cool practical effect for a fantasy setting including enchanted weaponry or some sort of item which applies the effect to the blade.
I also feel that this addition is a perfect fit for long range weapons like a spear or where blunt like a mace, the idea of seeing a Viking warrior with two axes blazing and wielding them like hell is not too crazy.
About the care for the wounds done by the blade, any burned flesh would be a lot worse to care for. Any burning greater than just 1° degree would need to be cleaned from dead tissue (called debridement). Also, even the lightest burns would increase the time needed for the wounds to start propely closing and would increase the risk of infections. And it might not look like the heat would do much to cauterise the wound, but you would be surprised. Bullet wounds for exemple can have little to no bleeding because the heat of the bullet. Major bleeding from gun fire are usually caused by hiting major arteries. Trust me, I'm a doctor
@Calen Crawford it isn't the flames that do the cauterizing. As you can see in the video, the blade gets healy Hot, the heated metal could do the cauterizing
while it may be relatively useless, if you saw a dude walking through the battlefield with a flaming sword by his side in the old days youd probably think he was the devil himself and book it
To counter the heat, you could have it set to do a blast of flame at the point of impact. That way you would get the burst of heat while cutting, but not while in rest mode. And if it was on a trigger, you could blast it at any point, maintaining that heat intimidation factor and having a surprise attack.
The one comment I would make in terms of the handle being cool is the fact you probably only need to make it flaming towards the tip end where you'd normally make contact with. There would be minimal benefit to have the flame down the blade right next to the guard. Still be hot from the general temperature of the flame, but it would help to an extent - certainly you could hold the handle in a normal way.
Putting it on the upper half will remove most of the issues, but I think it becomes more viable for the opponent to grapple the blade. There might be a sweet spot though, 2/3 of the blade?
Depends on the sword type and length. But the main point is that the flames don't need to be the full length of the blade. In terms of the opponent grappling the blade, they are less likely to want to grapple than if it wasn't on fire, plus there is a huge chance the other person would need to reach through the flames to be able to grab the non-flaming bit which will still be frigging hot.
The cool factor outweighs the negatives. Also I can imagine a character that travels with many weapons, setting them ablaze, and discarding them after use.
I'm thinking you could raise the burning portion up the blade to reduce heat transference to the handle and use a disc guard to reduce radiant heat, possibly with a wooden back to absorb some of that heat without the fragility of ceramic. Wooden scales wrapped in leather for the hilt would further reduce the heat transfer and might make the blade usable for longer. This is making me wonder though whether a light enchantment on a sword wouldn't have a similar effect in terms of vision. Obviously it wouldn't have the heat effects, but it's worth a think. Also, I don't know if you're aware of this but there are modern ceramics that bypass the fragility issue pretty well. As I understand it, they're laced with fiberglass or something similar to increase the strength of the material. They were developing materials like that at Alfred University when my brother went there, I believe it was intended for the space program. As to how easy it would be to make something like that, I have no idea.
You could make a fire sword by wrapping a rod in cloth then wrapping it metal twine and let it soak in gas for a long time. It would be more of a fire club than a sword, but you might be able to sharpen the end for a flaming spear. Done right the gas leaving the cloth burns very well for a long time. My family used to wrap socks in twine and make fireballs to play catch with. I think they lasted about 30 min. Everyone wore welders gloves and it was really cool.
I'm actually really impressed with how they performed. They looked fantastic too! Also ty for the bonuses ideas for dnd. I'm a dm and I'm working on a huge weapons project and I'm feeling the +1 intimidation
Add a Fire Shield to the mix! Talk about intimidation! Not only do you worry of getting sliced and burned by the sword, you have to worry about the thrust of a Fire Shield in to you. I say make a Fire Shield!
The new shadiversity theme tune at the beginning really makes this video feel high budget you can see the amount of effort and love that's going into these new videos and I'm loving every single so much im rewatching this video.
If you have to hold the sword out and cant use proper guard positions because of the heat, maybe fire swords would benefit rapiers more, because the fighting styles for those tend to involve holding the sword out more.
Was just listening to a book called Wandering Inn where one of the characters was complaining about how useless a fire enchantment on a sword is. I was wondering how accurate their thoughts were on that, this is perfect
This was absolutely AMAZING but BOY did I get some anxiety watching those flaming embers flying off the swords onto the dry, flammable leaves on the ground. Love both the practical and fantasy analyses of effectiveness, awesome job guys!
I know there is a lot of questions about the validity of Shinobi documentation and some in-subject debate about how frequent/to-what-extent/with-what-emphasis combat-training was a part of their training, but the Bansenshukai has a section which describes lighting a spear (if I recall correctly, in a similar manner, though this is not certain, at the moment: please double-check me) when facing multiple opponents and/or desiring to blitz through a position to reach a target (for many of the same reasons, presumably: intimidation, the blade distracting the opponent from the totality of the fight taking place, giving the opponent a greater tendency to fight the sword instead of the attacker, messing with the opponent’s depth-perception, making subtle movements from the attacker more of an uncertain blur, making the opponent less-likely to bind with the attacker for concern at the flames, the fact that the blade must be held out a bit further and therefore keeping a guard up that increases the likelihood that they will stay back and away from you, and the fact that it is flammable and burns a lot [I know that last one is simple, but simple isn’t always a bad thing]). I hope someone out there found this note to be interesting, and I hope it was useful to someone for research! 😊
Do you need to set the whole length of the blade on fire? Also, I would combo that with somekind of a sidearm that can squirt or splash flammables on the enemy. Imagine getting soaked in oil or tallow or alcohol or something, and suddenly the flame-tipped sword is about to lick your damp clothes and equipment.
@@1stCallipostle the ignition here was much closer to the hands, than the mace-head of typical maces, that has usually an additional armslength from the handle. Adding a guard seems reasonable. I'd argue that any fireweapon needs two guards, with the second (wooden?) being insulated from the first (metal) guard. the first protects from the enemy, the second from the fire.
It sounds like the ideal "fire sword" would actually be a rapier with a hollow core and small holes throughout its length. Then connected to a gas tank on your back by a thin tube ran through your clothes and out your sleeve, it could be kept aflame. A rapier would be preferred as the stance you naturally want to take (keeping the sword far from your body) already most strongly suits that style of sword fighting. There could be some sort of snap connector for the tube to allow it to easily connect and disconnect from the sword to aide in sheathing the blade. Removing the blade from the sheathe could also activate a sparker mechanism that lights it aflame.
It's nice to see Shad field test this concept. Flaming swords appear heavily in my sci-fi book series The Godsend Epic, only the flames are blue and smokeless and the flames move from hilt to tip even when pointed down. In the first book Angel Odyssey, my main character's flame sword is named Blue Flower, which was my nod to Eragon's sword Brisingr which means "Fire" and when its blade is aflame after Eragon says its name the fires are blue too, and it was also a nod to the Red Flower, which is what the animals in Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book would call fire as a workaround because in-universe they fear it so much that they dare not say its name for fear that it would arise.
In ASOIAF, Thoros of Myr is able to light his blade, but it is only for show. He normally used cheap swords as they would melt and used them more as a scare tactic than as usable weaponry.
If you try the fire swords again I have a few suggestions to address the "burns the user" issue. Use a saber that has a bowl or shell style guard to protect the hand from the open flame. Only install the wick on the tip half of the blade (to push the flames farther away). And a saber it will allow you to have the wick recessed in the fuller, so that it doesn't add as much thickness to the cross section, giving better cuts. I would also like seeing it tested against cloth, since all of you where worried about being caught on fire. Dress up one of your maniquines in a tunic and gambison (if you have a spare) and do a few flaming test cuts to see if it actually ignites him. If you want to test other weapons do it with long spears. Or better yet, a Roman Pilum with your fire wick wrapped around the iron shank.
Considering a realistic perspective on using a sword like this, I could see the wielder also having bottles of oil or even some form of greek fire that could be splashed on the opponent, environment, or sword to make the threat of fire much more deadly for the opposition (and really anyone involved).
I fully endorse the movement for more fire sword builds. Longer handles, internal wicks. Sparking gauntlets? (Maybe the thumb is flint and the fingers are steel) Internet science needs this.
I didn't even realize the music at the beginning was the channel theme until the intro kicked in! It's amazing, the drums and piano notes in the background especially.
Shad trying to will fantasy into reality is why I love him. People like him are why we have airplanes.
A million people can scrutinize fantasy weapons/tropes. But only someone like Shad has the will to experiment with it irl.
@@TheSteam02 Or ..... Maybe the rest of us take 70 years to actually manage to get to the point that we can attempt to experiment with it through an honest living and by then while we are trying to remember what we were going to do once we got that far, we are also trying to remember who that woman is that is in the house, who's house we are in, where that dog came from, if it is twilight because it is morning or because it is evening, trying to remember if we were getting into bed or coming out of bed, and trying to figure out when we got that bullet scar.
He's just getting ready to bring Fallout to Mad Max
@@rachdarastrix5251 What
@@rachdarastrix5251 put away the anime protag speech, Rach. Now isn't the time.
I think that the fear factor and not needing the edge to hurt your opponent is a big selling point in a duel.
you can't grapple a hot metal blade.
You can. But the results won't be fun for you.
You'll not grapple anyway a blade with your bare hands or so, ablaze or not
@@alessandroseverino8222 Shad himself has made videos on how to grapple a blade with your bare hand. It's perfectly possible. But you need one hell of a strong grip.
Just half-sword it like a man!
@alexandresobreiramartins9461 actually it is possible.
In a life-and-death situation significant damage to your off hand to hang up your opponents weapon long enough for you to run him through has been done.
It's a last resort but it's better than death.
All you need to do is add runes to the swords to completely sell the effect
Wick aranging time
Minecraft enchantment runes
The fire department is probably right behind the camera.
@@danielcox7629 They are semi-trained quasi-professionals, of course there is a fire extinguisher ready.
What will they say when there is an accident?
"See, officer, so here I was when I agreed to let my legal employer beat me up with a flaming sword."
They needed to do _all_ the precautions here.
They need to market this as the John Wick.
Once again Shad has made a contribution of INCALCUABLE worth to creatives and enjoyers of fiction. Shadiversity has rapidly become the Golden Era Discovery Channel of the Fantasy genre.
That's not to far off actually. Especially when you take in his love for adding that "lived-in" realism that encourages one to be sucked into a story. Like old school star wars 😊
One of my favorite uses of a flaming weapon in fantasy literature was in the Forgotten Realms novels, when the orcish warlord Obould Many-Arrows raised his blade to indicate a strike from above, quickly suppressed the magic of the blade and struck from below, catching his opponent off-guard, because the lingering flames and their impression on the eyes hid the change in stance. It's nice to see this confirmed as plausible by your testing results.
Obould was a cunning fellow in general, for an Orc.
Circus guy here. I've actually done shows and performances with my own fire sword and pretty much everything you've said is spot on. The one I built for myself is based off a katana type sword (I based it off my bokken to make it closer to something of be used to using), and that circular guard is really good for protecting your hand from the flames. If you use a layer of some metal and a backing layer of wood you can hold it pretty much like normal (even bare handed). I did have to make the guard a fair bit wider than normal to cover my hand though.
As for the advantages, aside from the intimidation factor from the fire I think it's more the fact that you can't quite see where the blade is coming from that gives the biggest advantage. Even with choreographed fights I've had situations where my "opponent" has missed the blade despite knowing beforehand what I would do. It's like being attacked with a big area of uncertainty rather than a sword. Certainly a lot more blocking rather than parrying involved.
I've never done any cutting tests with mine (had to deliberately remove any sharp edges because UK law is weird at times) so I don't really know anything about that, so it's really interesting to see the way it affects the way it affects the test meat.
Most important part though, that I think you absolutely nailed: all tactical advantages and disadvantages pale in comparison to the simple fact that fire swords are JUST SO BLOODY COOL!
So, UK law allows you to literally set a sword on fire and fight with it for entertainment purposes, but sharp edges are a no-no? Laws really don't make much sense sometimes
@@door-chan In Britain you can't have curved swords like katanas. Straight swords are just fine.
@@door-chan Curved blades are illegal, presumably it came about to try and curb ownership of katanas after they were popularized in the eighties, though I haven't looked into the details of the origin. So yeah, if despite being easily purchasable, katana or cavalry sabres or anything like that are illegal... unless you are a part of a re-enactment organisation, or the blade is authentic, made before a certain time (can't recall what year the blade has to be older than). What gets silly is when a friend first learnt of this law, he looked it up, and strictly speaking, if fencing and the rapier gets bent into a curve from an impact... it's now an illegal item. Cue many laughs about a police officer tackling a fencer at a tournament because the rapier/coil bent out of shape.
Anybody more educated on this law feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. I myself only learnt about this law two weeks ago and mostly from hearing a conversation between friends.
@@door-chan Stage fighting with sharp swords is pretty stupid anyways
Frankly, just the intimidation and distraction factor alone is quite serious with a flaming sword.
Certainly. In the end, we humans are still animals. We fear fire by instinct, more than we fear swords.
Also, imagine fighting someone with a Flaming sword who is also dual wielding it with a weapon that isn't in flames. Especially in Night Time.
Also, the animal factor. Cavalry charging infantry. Infantry lights up swords. Horses say hard pass, and stop obeying. Or, in fantasy games, fighting wolves etc. Lots of animals are more afraid of fire than us, and we are pretty darn warey of it.
It does really put the duel with the Hound and that leader of the fire guys into an interesting light (tried to avoid the pun, but just got off night shift and legit could not find other words), with how effective the sword actually is, pluss the Hound's fear of fire. As some one who got third degree burns from a gas fire as a teen, I feel for the Hound, that sword swinging at me looks like a big pile of nope.
Exactly! You don't even need sword - just pick two torches and "spar" with friend. You'll quickly find out, how scared you are to even approach.
Oh god
Finally Fire Aspect Sword
Okay, that means we have three of the classical elements covered: Fire, Metal and Wood.
Air and Water still need development.
We need to test Earth, Wind and Fire on battle effectiveness...
Lol, I wanna see knockback next
E 🤣
I did some Googling and it turns out that above 600 Degrees Fahrenheit is generally when steel begins to lose its temperature, water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. The human body 70% water and I remember something from a former Papa John's employee that 140 or 120 something is when the human mouth starts to burn. The rest of the body is surely not much more heat resistant than that-so if you get a low 200 to 300 degrees heat in Fahrenheit then you can probably get the benefits of fire aspect without the disadvantage of ruining the temper if there ever was one.
This would be a really interesting test to do with pole arms. People wouldn’t be too heart broken about ruining the tip of a spear. The source of the flame would also be further from your body and closer to the enemy.
Honestly, I think a flaming spear would be an even more terrifying weapon to fight against.
I was thinking the same, you get the uncertainty the same as a tasseled spear, but with all the intimidation and extra pain if you do wound someone.
Conversely, a flame-bladed axe (with fuel lines set along the edge) could be a morbidly effective hack-and-slash type of weapon assuming the blade can be kept sharp
@Anthony David as Shad already went crazy about in his two headed axe video a year ago, even if a battle axe's blade is somewhat dull, it's still gonna be lethal. That's just how incredibly dangerous axes are in battle with even the most basic knowledge on how to use one
Is that a the legend of zelda: breath of the wild reference
Tf2 pyro sounds intensify intensely
this is like 1000x cooler than lightsabers, and 1000x easier to create
Actually it's only about 20x cooler; about 1,000degrees vs 20,000
@@mattdowds8505really underrated pun here.😂
Interesting fact, lightsabers are by far not the only energy sword in Starwars. Something called the Fireblade is in fact a thing.
And lightsabers still haven't been created. Projected superheated gas isn't a lightsaber.
@Rach Darastrix There's also vibroblades, which no one seemed to know about unless you read the old Dark Horse comics or played KOTOR 1/2. They're common knowledge now, but before Disney you needed to be a hard-core nerd to know that. And yes, just sayin', the energy used to vibrate the blade at super high frequencies makes it an energy sword, just not as ostensible as ones that glow or are pure energy.
I've been spinning fire sword for years now, with a background in HEMA, fencing, and Shinkageryu.
The hardest part? NEVER STAY IN ANY LOW GUARD. The flame climbs up.
interesting! makes sense though. thanks for sharing!
Didn’t think of that 😄 The flame would climb up toward you 🔥
They didn't say anything about it, but at 12:31 it shows very clearly what happens when the blade is pointed straight down. You definitely would not want to hold onto that!
Consider only having the wick on the upper half of the blade. That would put the fire as close to your opponent while further from you, and it would take longer for the heat to get to the hilt, also the blade wouldn't get as hot as quick.
This is a good idea
Great idea
A fire ricasso
The flaming sword looks really cool, but "poop sword" is the true weapon of Terror.
@@Sue_Me_Toolike plague marines
The amount of dedication Shad brings when it comes to this content is just amazing. I hope this channel lasts for eternity.
Well, it will certainly last until Shad dies one day. I guess his sons can carry it on if they like. ''Carry on my legacy boys!'' But one can wish.
@@Khornedevotee regardless, I will forever support this channel because of how passionate Shad and his team are with regards to the content they bring.
They deserve every inch of Support and Praise.
For a flaming blade user, I could see a good tactic being to throw a jar of highly flammable liquid over the opponent, that shatters on impact, and then using the blade to set them alight.
Last words before disaster
“Catch this chucklenuts!”
I was watching some battles that were done at some kind of event, during it there was a guy that was fighting with torches and carrying a bottle of alcohol with him, during the fight he would spit the alcohol at them making a massive fire ball. (Disclaimer: They planned it out and they use a shield to block it from hitting anyone).
I'd think it more effective to simply light a rag or wick of something in the conventional molotov-style before throwing it, as trying to light it after would require connecting with an adequately soaked spot.
On a mildly relevant note: liquids are heavy, and while it wouldn't be unreasonable to carry a few such jars when you knew you'd need them (trolls, duels without rules against it, ect...), it wouldn't be worth the extra load if you were either unsure you were going to need it, or if you were going to need a battle-fields worth of it.
This tactic was actually used at war with flamethrower tanks... most of the time they didn't even have to turn on the flame, just a "wet squirt" on the bunker was enough for the crew inside to start waving the white flag...
@@LordStarbeardso a wet squirt marked the finish, you say?
I love the way the flames seemed to spring to life when the big, heavy sword was being raised to chop the meat. Awesome visual if nothing else!
I love that you guys try to realise these fantasy tropes irl, it gives me a thousand ideas to improve fantasy concepts
Realistically, in a fantasy setting, unless prohibited by the setting's magic, it seems like anyone wealthy and skilled enough to be willing to get an enchanted fire sword would also maybe have access to gauntlets enchanted for fire resistance (you could even argue that this might be cheaper than the sword itself, too, depending on how the magic system is structured, since the blade might already have to have fire resistance under its flaming enchantments to keep it from melting or warping, so it's just doing half the job over again). Which would not only aid the wielder in normal fighting, but it might also allow for half-swording, even.
Also, it could be a nice worldbuilding detail to accompany such swords with mention that they can only be made by master enchanters... and give mention to how easily it destroys the sword when done wrong.
There would be one disadvantage, and that is self-defense against an unexpected attack. If you don't happen to be wearing the enchanted gauntlets at the time (do you plan on wearing them 24/7?) you have to be prepared to use the sword without your gauntlets on. I guess you can just keep the flames off in such a scenario. Or I guess you could accept the inconvenience of wearing the gauntlets all the time, whenever there is any risk of being ambushed or such.
@@Tennouseijin You could also carry a sidearm for that scenario, if the magic system in question prohibits turning-off the sword (ie. if the sword lights itself from the moment it leaves its sheath). Or you might see wielders of such a sword wear thick, comfortable gloves on the regular-something that may not be enchantable or remotely as heat-resistant, but would be easy to wear for day to day stuff and would protect your hands just enough in a pinch. Though, that last solution would be *_immensely_* inconvenient in hot climates.
Being magic, it would also be possible for it to generate what would effectively be a heat resistant shield around the wielder's hand at the very least, if not the wielder's whole body. It would also imagine the magic also shielding the blade from the heat so that that the blade does not get particularly hot, if at all, and not lose its tempering.
In D&D all magic weapons are very hard to break, don't need any sharpening, does not rust, and are immune to all elemental damage, so no special gloves are needed. Also magic fire is more potent than normal fire and can burn under water, without air etc..
Tennouseijin enchanted gloves, stylish, comfortable and heat resistant.
Fear factor + having to keep the blade further from yourself + need to protect you hand from the heat + even a non-cut touch can make your opponent reel in pain =
actually, a flaming fencing sword would make a lot of sense !
Sorry for not doing many of these guys,
1:48 how it works
3:58 goal of today and problems
5:25 sparing ans thoughts
Summary, hard to see blade and actions, intimidating,
9:50 vs sheld
11:46 vs pork
12:55 shad beating his meat
Thoughts on cuttimg
14:54 thoughts on everything...
And inprovments
16:00 cutting tests
17:30 problems
Thanks for the time stamps.
"Beating his meat" 🧐
12:55 💀
From fire arrows to fire swords, you guys are turning into real pyromaniacs.
Waiting for fire balls
@@bubblemonkeys Indeed lol
*roasting marshmallows over your own flaming sword...come on Shad, do it for your patrons...do it for the children who love toasted marshmallows and diebeetus*
Something to factor in is if the flame is created with magic it could potentially have a much, much hotter flame than what you're able to achieve with a wick or chemicals. So you can increase the melting factor a lot in a fantasy setting.
Indeed. We are talking at least 10 times hotter (if not more). There is a big difference between a chemical-burning sword that operates at 500-600°F, and a magical blade that could do 5000-10,000°F.
Also, the blade would not automatically be black from use, as it wouldn't gather deposits of carbonized hydrocarbons like the chemical blade. Certain enemies struck might not leave anything behind on the blade, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. Granted, creatures that are capable of bleeding would leave blood on the blade when struck, which would quickly blacken.
And the magic itself could be protecting the hands and handle.
Imagine the blade as having 2 effects: flame resistance for the blade itself and chemical splash at the end t goes away from the hilt on enough contact. Light it up at the start or do it after already hitting the enemies shield, weapon, and clothes.
I have absolutely love how much this channel has grown. It will make such good internet history.
I like the mix of advantages and drawbacks mentioned. It immediately had me thinking of how so many RPGs would have talents like _Playing with Fire_ that would give more power at a cost. I really enjoy your guys' talks about how a more irl-accurate D&D would be designed.
When Shad held up the slab of pork and asked, "Who's hungry," I was fully expecting a transition to a Hello Fresh sponsorship 😄
Haven’t seen the vid yet but the fact this looks like this works is insane to me
Hey Shad, not exactly on topic but I just watched an old video by thehistorysquad, an old English gentleman who does a lot of history videos especially about the middle ages. He worked at castles giving tours, among other things, and is an archer. In his video 'Recommended medieval arrows for longbow archery' he shows an incendiary arrow that he got the recipe from an older medieval scholar. He doesn't give the recipe but says that it contains some gunpowder. He also says that experiments he's done show that it will burn for 20 minutes after it hits the target. Just thought you might want to check the video out, and his others, he's a fun narrator and they're great to watch.
Oooh. Gunpowder makes sense. It'd basically be an arrow version of the chinese fire artillery.
So they guy invented a reverse gunpowder gun, the gunpowder in the end of the projetile haha
sounds like the guy is full of it. gunpowder burns very rapidly. that aside. for something to burn for 20 minutes, with modern materials no less, youd be talking about something around the size and weight of a road flare. put that on the end of your arrow and see how far you can get it to go. spoiler alert, it wont.
@@commie4164 Just need to have a second gunpowder charge strapped to the arrow to provide thrust... and a couple of solutions later you've just reinvented the actual chinese artillery.
Link please, sounds interesting.
I personally always liked the fire sword from Fallout, the Shishkebab. The aesthetic is just perfect. Motorcycle tank on your back, surgical tubing running to a motorcycle handle as the handle, with fuel and spark being triggered by the handbrake, setting alight a sharpened lawnmower blade. And because it uses gas as the fuel it can most definitely set enemies ablaze.
I have issues with that iteration of the shishkebab if it’s hastily put together. The issue is that if your opponent can cut the fuel line, you’re fucked as now you have no fire sword but are now leaking flammable liquid everywhere.
Not to mention getting shot in the tank could be devestating depending on the fuel type being used. Military flamethrowers the fuel used needed a higher temperature to ignite, and so a bullet shooting at the chamber wouldn’t per se make it explode, but rather the fuel would just leak out, but if it were ignited it would be devastating. ESPECIALLY if the fuel is gasoline.
Fallout 4’s shishkebab has the fuel tank in the blade itself. This would mean that while it may not keep alight for as long as the FO3 shishkebab, it will certainly be safer
Leave it to Shad to figure out how to test something unique like a fire sword. Shadiversity is awesome.
Love it! Ok imagine this: a spear-length torch (which is actually the more common length, unlike what we see in movies) with blades on the sides. You're keeping the flame further away from yourself, it has more fuel and flame time, and greater area denial and charge effectiveness.
For bonus points you could also have a clay vial of pitch on your belt. If an opponent is well protected from your torch (like with the shield), toss the pitch pot at them to coat in sticky conflagration.
Oh yeah oh heck yeah
8:48 An easy ay to keep the sword with thread burning longer is to dowse it in wax. it'd make it burn 3-5 times as much additionally the sword would be dripping bits of hot burning wax
What a great way to permanently blind yourself. Keep in mind that thing swings closer to you than the enemy.
@@ihavenoson3384 fair point
Poor man's Napalm should do the same without the risk of molten wax.
@@isaacm1929 styrofoam was not available historically but a mixture of tree resin and other flammable liquids should be better than nothing.
@@clausroquefort9545 Lol, A-historical fire sword. But yes. Maybe Greek fire should be sufficiently good
D&d purposes I would say balancing could be 1d4 additional fire damage, -2 to attack roll but rolled with advantage vs target without shield, but keeping the -2 attack roll penalty vs shielded targets rolled without advantage.
Cruel
This is cool! It actually works, and seems a legitimate advantage and practical. Cool to see all those fantasy fire swords legitimatized and real.
An interesting point is that the fire doesn't have to extend all the way down the blade. The fire could probably stop around where the ricasso would typically start. That way, you would keep most of the advantages from intimidating your opponent and obscuring the blade, without having it be such a danger to your hand.
Great video guys. A follow up video of fire sword Vs sword and torch perhaps?/ Do you think any other flaming weapon would be better/ actually realistically doable say a flaming Warhammer ect? 👍 Can't afford to join but hope revenue turns around.
What if the flame was only up near the tip, instead of allong the whole length of the blade? That should help midigate the weilder getting overheated.
This, but on demand, and with Napalm.
Or just stick a bayonet on your flamethrower, i dunno...
Yes, i was thinking just the upper 2/3rds of a blade being on fire
Two Handed Sword with a non-flaming ricasso - That should protect your hands from the flames :)
@@franohmsford7548 Only for short battles thanks to the Laws of Thermodynamics and all. Eventually the ricasso would grow hot, then the cross guard, hilt, and pommel. Even if not to the same extent as the source of the heat, you would not want to hold a flaming blade for too long. Besides... that sort of defeats half the purpose of a ricasso, no? Leverage?
@@ABadassDragon I was thinking about 1/2 the length of the blade, but yeah, somthing in the ballpark of that ratio.
I wouldn't have imagined something like this would work... Yet here we are! Pretty awesome video, and some substantial finds I'd say.
I am pretty certain that us, most animals and easily by extension a lot of fantasy creatures, have some instinctive fight or flight response to fire and seeing it be waved around in your face is gonna put you off. That I would guess was a big part of why initially he was so caught off guard to be attacked with it.
After explanation and the shield being there the rational human mind starts to kick in but I dunno if it'd drop off.
Obviously won't work because practical limitations of reality but it'd be a wise investment for magic.
Good luck making an enchanted electrical, ice and phase blade. I expect holy/unholy swords too.
Oh boy, there are videos of lighting swords. They don't look how you expect. The electricity, rather than coating the blade, shoots a little lighting bolt about a foot long out the top of the sword and sometimes the bottom (while in a rest stance). Then when it is pointed at a metal target it straight up shoots a lightning blast out the tip of the blade. RPG's need to update their approach to lightning enchanted blades; they become range weapons aside from adding shock to the blade's physical attack. Wielding a lightning enchant would probably be something you only do if you are alone because that thing will attack anything metal.
Wielder needs to be fully enclosed in a Faraday suit which needs to be earthed. Idk if standard armour would suffice.
I'd imagine a polearm would also give the same effect as the shield.
If you're keeping them at bay, the fire isn't nearly such an immediate worry unless you covered your entire Spear in dried grass or something
Yes and no, like he explained the bright light also obscures the blade, which makes nuances in the fight get lost, like wether you stab or slash as he explained, you simply cannot tell when the fire hides the blade. So there is a tangible effect that is not just the mind and that getting used to won't necesserrily help you with. Also fire is hot. Rational human mind here or there, you WILL fight a fire sword differently because with a normal sword, as long as the edge can't hit you, you're golden. With a fire sword, even proximity to the blade can be harmful.
I do think you overestimate the influence of mental intimidation. There are quite a few key points that are just physical influences that getting used to won't do much.
This has got to be the coolest thing youve tested yet. Got a lot of Gwyn (DS1) vibes from this. Shoutouts to you in general for the amazing content youve been pumping out lately !
Hey, hobby bladesmith here, thought I'd give my two cents regarding the tempering being lost. It's difficult to precisely make out because of the soot on the blade but at 13:54 it looks like the steel barely got a straw color in some spots which would be around 200 - 240 °C (390 - 460 °F) which I would say is within the tempering range for a sword. Could be interesting to test it with an infrared thermometer after use, because my guess would be that the temper wouldn't be ruined. Unless that silvery look is actually past blue but I don't think an open flame would get it that hot.
Anyways, great video, I love all the fantasy stuff you guys are testing!
if you haven't watched the video where they dug a hole with swords, this sword bent (and stayed bent) when they were digging
In your opinion what would be the best metal or construction method to prevent losing the temper?
Love the video. You rock
What a fantastic video! Also, I can't shake the feeling of how epic a Flamberge would look on fire.
I was initially wondering the fire sword could be something travelers could use in order to scare off wild animals until the points of it ruining the taper came up. But I suppose they already have torches for that
Well yes they already have torches for that but if you can carry less to carry more of something else why wouldn't you. You are trading torches for extra rope or what ever the wik and fuel would be. In my mind that is a good weight trade so you can carry more food or other supplies that are more important.
fire swords are for boss fights, they can ruin the temper of your weapon. And they had to drill though the sword to make it work and that further hurts the sword. Instead of could just weld a torch scone to your shield and have the glare in front of your enemy while having the shield blocking the glare from your face, that would be a huge advantage and not cumbersome most of the time.
A One-Handed Club of Burning
@@xxbeastmode-sh3iv The time is also an important part though. It's very easy and quick to make a torch. Not so much this sword. Especially for wild animals when they attack things have to happen quick, I feel like preparation time and maintenance work for fire swords is through the roof compared to torches, which are much easier and faster to do.
@@EskChan19 while true if we are looking at real life maybe not so true in fantasy
Thank you for doing my suggestion :)
This was amazing.
From a DnD perspective, I think if you gave a fire-sword to a warforged With metal parts as blackened as the sword itself, there should be a huge intimidation bonus.
Another cool video, I didn't know it's that hard to light a sword on fire and how much heat it would emit until now.
So, I do hope that video game- and tabletop designers will look at this and rebalance what fire swords do.
The thing is most if not all flaming swords in fantasy are magic items and thus aren't affected by the problems these guys had (flame not lasting or ruining the temper of the blade) so the wielder doesn't have to treat it any different then a normal sword
@@strifenineteen With weak magic systems you are right, but the point of this video is to make you think it through. _If your magic system is sufficiently fleshed out, it becomes indistinguishable from science._ And that is where this experiment comes in.
This is physics: Flames that are 1000-2000°C hot, will mess with the metallurgy of your sword. Going hotter, you are risking meltdowns, too.
Flames that are not really hot (like illusionary ones) are also not combat-effective as fire-swords.
Magical nonconductive metal that you specifically invent to be as good as steel but also to withstand the fury of sunfire-flame-magics... that metal is a whole new level of handwaving. And also going to be used for armor.
_Extremely rare_ magic-metal that will withstand firemagic, is not going to be forged into swords in the first place, as that would be a huge waste of material.
And finally, the fire-swords won't magically cool themselves after use, either, unless you make it a whole new enchantment.
@@Enyavar1that’s just your own interpretation of what a soft magic system could represent, it being near indistinguishable from science doesn’t automatically mean it acts like science. Looks≠function.
@@Enyavar1 While I definitely do enjoy more well detailed magic, one thing I'll have to disagree with is the idea a rare metal would *never* be made into weapons. People make things out of whatever they have, and generally it being a waste is the one of the least concerns, unless it's something limited but essential like food or water in times of need. Especially in medieval times, when forests were not preserved as they felt it was a practically endless resource. If a rare metal was discovered, especially in a medieval/fantasy type setting where such a thing wouldn't be known to everyone, it would depend heavily on who found it and what they were like what would happen to it. I mean think of all the absolutely useless pretty trinkets that's been made from everything from lead to copper to gold, all because some king or queen wanted a pretty necklace or fancier crown. If a rare metal was found I think it'd be more than possible someone might recognize it's usefulness if it was found by the right person. What it's *best* used for tho may or may never ever be a question in the users mind.
@@isaace436 I did not say "never" or spoke absolutively. I said "not going to (be used that way)". Just remember: the first iron that we humans discovered, was so rare we only fashioned it into jewelry. It took us a long time before we had enough iron (and the processes) to economically forge weapons or tools from it. And types of iron armor directly at the same time. And that was my statement: fire-proof magical metal swords means fire-proof magical armor.
Or they are regular metal that is subject to wear and tear just like in the video, and you have to struggle with material upkeep and all the other issues Shad, Tyrant and the other guy recognized here.
All I'm saying is that if you create a fictional world, you might want to consider the magic system, but also how it affects the physics and economics in that world, and how the economy and physics influence the (usefulness of the) magic in return.
For example, I will repeat that fire-maces seem more useful as weapons of war when compared to fire-swords. And fire-nunchucks are completely nuts. Yet all three ideas are possible, strictly spoken.
Shads wife: Honey, have you seen that pork I was going to cook tonight?
From all that was said, I believe you have found that the flaming polearm, poleaxe, and halberd would be highly effective. Good reach, keep the fire away from the user and intimidate the enemy.
There is also a packing peanut goo... that may be able to be applied in a hurry that burns well.
That was an awesome video, thank you!
FIRESWORDS!!!
But seriously another great video! I absolutely love how fun the content has been. Keep up the great work gentlemen!
The biggest issue is you may begin to anneal the metal taking away the heat treating. Then you basically have a weakened softer steel sword that’s hot. Also, the way you did it with holes obviously weakens the sword. Thanks for pointing this out too Shad!
This was a great video. Honestly I'd like to see this same experiment tested with spears, pikes and pole arms. I feel this strategy could have alot more potential viability if you have more reach and because its a spearhead/ pole arm, you would be using up alot less material. I would love to see you guys test this out but either way I look forward to the next video. Keep it up lads! 👍
Probably not well considering the wooden haft of spears, pikes and polearms
Maces on the other hand!!
@@ragnarian I agree a mace could work too, you wouldn't have to worry about the fire damaging the weapon as much as its just a bludgeon. Honestly the more types of melee weapons they test this strategy with the better.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance
A Fire sword in DND would also have an environment, anomaly; a monster effect, possibly ally moral boost, and be quite useful an after battle healing effect. The sword may set the grans lands on fire by accident but the swamps should be fine. A fire drake might be attracted to the fire while a fairy would flee in terror. You allies may get a moral boost or be scared. "He's using the fire sword. Now we are on the attack." OR "This is bad. He had to use the fire sword." Lastly, healing. After the battle, "Does anyone need a wound cauterized?"
I have few additional ideas:
1. Checking different fuel types for damage.
2. Checking how burning fuel getting at the opponent will impact the fight.
3. Checking single-edged sword for cutting test (with the line going behind blade and not widening it).
Shad deserves more views and all of the support in the world. It’ll be a sad day if this channel couldn’t continue due to lack of funds. I literally fall to sleep to these videos 😢
Patreon is a thing ;-)
In RPGs like the Final Fantasy series characters with elemental weapons have an innate resistance to the same element. So they’re can be slightly resistant to their weapon to full immunity from their to just absorbing the elemental damage as healing.
My electricity just came back on as Shad drops a video on Fire Swords with a rocking opening! Perfect timing!
Flame on!
I love the way you guys thought it all through and without actual Magic I think you got as close as possible
Love it! Your videos are always so much fun to watch
In 5e terms "a nonmagical -1 to attacks, +2 fire damage. Opponents you attack get disadvantage on their next attack against you. You gain advantage on intimidation checks while the blade is lit."
Might go as high as 1d4 on the fire so it can double with a solid hit that sticks in the target for a bit.
@@RobKinneySouthpaw Hm. Dunno about the basic statistics for two-handers, but I'd balance a this as a 1d12 +2d4 fire effect. 1d4 for yourself in case of a critical miss.
Each charge of the magic effect lasts for 1d4 minutes and increases the number that counts as a critical miss by 1. After six uses, this means you have a 50% chance of a critical miss. That is, until you have the sword repaired by a flamesword-guild-certified blacksmith.
As a huge fan of practical effects in movies and TV, this would be a super cool practical effect for a fantasy setting including enchanted weaponry or some sort of item which applies the effect to the blade.
I must say,this episode is pretty cool. I wonder if it's true that you can use the fire sword to scare off cavalry horses like mentioned in ASOIAF.
The first minute was amazing, love what you're doing
This is a video worth making and watching!
I love that you guys go for it.
I also feel that this addition is a perfect fit for long range weapons like a spear or where blunt like a mace, the idea of seeing a Viking warrior with two axes blazing and wielding them like hell is not too crazy.
About the care for the wounds done by the blade, any burned flesh would be a lot worse to care for. Any burning greater than just 1° degree would need to be cleaned from dead tissue (called debridement). Also, even the lightest burns would increase the time needed for the wounds to start propely closing and would increase the risk of infections.
And it might not look like the heat would do much to cauterise the wound, but you would be surprised. Bullet wounds for exemple can have little to no bleeding because the heat of the bullet. Major bleeding from gun fire are usually caused by hiting major arteries.
Trust me, I'm a doctor
@Calen Crawford it isn't the flames that do the cauterizing. As you can see in the video, the blade gets healy Hot, the heated metal could do the cauterizing
while it may be relatively useless, if you saw a dude walking through the battlefield with a flaming sword by his side in the old days youd probably think he was the devil himself and book it
To counter the heat, you could have it set to do a blast of flame at the point of impact. That way you would get the burst of heat while cutting, but not while in rest mode. And if it was on a trigger, you could blast it at any point, maintaining that heat intimidation factor and having a surprise attack.
Its so beautiful
I've looked at this for 5 hours now
The one comment I would make in terms of the handle being cool is the fact you probably only need to make it flaming towards the tip end where you'd normally make contact with. There would be minimal benefit to have the flame down the blade right next to the guard. Still be hot from the general temperature of the flame, but it would help to an extent - certainly you could hold the handle in a normal way.
Putting it on the upper half will remove most of the issues, but I think it becomes more viable for the opponent to grapple the blade.
There might be a sweet spot though, 2/3 of the blade?
@@benedict6962 i'd go with 3/4ths
Depends on the sword type and length. But the main point is that the flames don't need to be the full length of the blade. In terms of the opponent grappling the blade, they are less likely to want to grapple than if it wasn't on fire, plus there is a huge chance the other person would need to reach through the flames to be able to grab the non-flaming bit which will still be frigging hot.
The cool factor outweighs the negatives. Also I can imagine a character that travels with many weapons, setting them ablaze, and discarding them after use.
I'm thinking you could raise the burning portion up the blade to reduce heat transference to the handle and use a disc guard to reduce radiant heat, possibly with a wooden back to absorb some of that heat without the fragility of ceramic. Wooden scales wrapped in leather for the hilt would further reduce the heat transfer and might make the blade usable for longer. This is making me wonder though whether a light enchantment on a sword wouldn't have a similar effect in terms of vision. Obviously it wouldn't have the heat effects, but it's worth a think.
Also, I don't know if you're aware of this but there are modern ceramics that bypass the fragility issue pretty well. As I understand it, they're laced with fiberglass or something similar to increase the strength of the material. They were developing materials like that at Alfred University when my brother went there, I believe it was intended for the space program. As to how easy it would be to make something like that, I have no idea.
You could make a fire sword by wrapping a rod in cloth then wrapping it metal twine and let it soak in gas for a long time. It would be more of a fire club than a sword, but you might be able to sharpen the end for a flaming spear. Done right the gas leaving the cloth burns very well for a long time. My family used to wrap socks in twine and make fireballs to play catch with. I think they lasted about 30 min. Everyone wore welders gloves and it was really cool.
I'm actually really impressed with how they performed. They looked fantastic too! Also ty for the bonuses ideas for dnd. I'm a dm and I'm working on a huge weapons project and I'm feeling the +1 intimidation
the original lightsaber
I waited for this video for so long, and it is fire. Now do lightning hammers 😆
See, this is why I'd think lightning blades would be better, just, be carefull of banging the sword on your own armor.
Add a Fire Shield to the mix! Talk about intimidation! Not only do you worry of getting sliced and burned by the sword, you have to worry about the thrust of a Fire Shield in to you. I say make a Fire Shield!
The new shadiversity theme tune at the beginning really makes this video feel high budget you can see the amount of effort and love that's going into these new videos and I'm loving every single so much im rewatching this video.
If you have to hold the sword out and cant use proper guard positions because of the heat, maybe fire swords would benefit rapiers more, because the fighting styles for those tend to involve holding the sword out more.
So basically these swords would be pretty practical and beneficial in fighting Trolls?
Not feeding the Trolls in the first place would be better. ;P
Yes, trolls and mummies!
Was just listening to a book called Wandering Inn where one of the characters was complaining about how useless a fire enchantment on a sword is. I was wondering how accurate their thoughts were on that, this is perfect
This was absolutely AMAZING but BOY did I get some anxiety watching those flaming embers flying off the swords onto the dry, flammable leaves on the ground. Love both the practical and fantasy analyses of effectiveness, awesome job guys!
I know there is a lot of questions about the validity of Shinobi documentation and some in-subject debate about how frequent/to-what-extent/with-what-emphasis combat-training was a part of their training, but the Bansenshukai has a section which describes lighting a spear (if I recall correctly, in a similar manner, though this is not certain, at the moment: please double-check me) when facing multiple opponents and/or desiring to blitz through a position to reach a target (for many of the same reasons, presumably: intimidation, the blade distracting the opponent from the totality of the fight taking place, giving the opponent a greater tendency to fight the sword instead of the attacker, messing with the opponent’s depth-perception, making subtle movements from the attacker more of an uncertain blur, making the opponent less-likely to bind with the attacker for concern at the flames, the fact that the blade must be held out a bit further and therefore keeping a guard up that increases the likelihood that they will stay back and away from you, and the fact that it is flammable and burns a lot [I know that last one is simple, but simple isn’t always a bad thing]). I hope someone out there found this note to be interesting, and I hope it was useful to someone for research! 😊
Flame tongue confirmed realistic weapon.
Do you need to set the whole length of the blade on fire? Also, I would combo that with somekind of a sidearm that can squirt or splash flammables on the enemy. Imagine getting soaked in oil or tallow or alcohol or something, and suddenly the flame-tipped sword is about to lick your damp clothes and equipment.
So awesome!!! Now I want to see fireflails and fireclubs too!
fire nunchuks best weapon! xD
Actually, given how bad this is for edge alignment and edge retention, I'll say that a firemace is the optimal weapon for this stuff.
@@Enyavar1 Not sure how much I'd like having the fire that close to my hand, with maces generally being shorter and generally having no guard.
@@1stCallipostle the ignition here was much closer to the hands, than the mace-head of typical maces, that has usually an additional armslength from the handle.
Adding a guard seems reasonable. I'd argue that any fireweapon needs two guards, with the second (wooden?) being insulated from the first (metal) guard. the first protects from the enemy, the second from the fire.
It sounds like the ideal "fire sword" would actually be a rapier with a hollow core and small holes throughout its length. Then connected to a gas tank on your back by a thin tube ran through your clothes and out your sleeve, it could be kept aflame. A rapier would be preferred as the stance you naturally want to take (keeping the sword far from your body) already most strongly suits that style of sword fighting. There could be some sort of snap connector for the tube to allow it to easily connect and disconnect from the sword to aide in sheathing the blade. Removing the blade from the sheathe could also activate a sparker mechanism that lights it aflame.
It's nice to see Shad field test this concept. Flaming swords appear heavily in my sci-fi book series The Godsend Epic, only the flames are blue and smokeless and the flames move from hilt to tip even when pointed down. In the first book Angel Odyssey, my main character's flame sword is named Blue Flower, which was my nod to Eragon's sword Brisingr which means "Fire" and when its blade is aflame after Eragon says its name the fires are blue too, and it was also a nod to the Red Flower, which is what the animals in Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book would call fire as a workaround because in-universe they fear it so much that they dare not say its name for fear that it would arise.
Medieval lightsabers! Yes !
In ASOIAF, Thoros of Myr is able to light his blade, but it is only for show. He normally used cheap swords as they would melt and used them more as a scare tactic than as usable weaponry.
I was going to say this! He used them mostly in tournaments to wow the crowd. The magic does come into play at the end though
The one fantasy author who has thought this thing through... Long may he live to write his final novels.
@@no1basser yeah he gains his magic after his religion is renewed as part of the Brave Companions (or dragons being born)
@@stelmaria-mx it's a religious symbol more than anything later on.
I thought this would have some CG or something. Next thing I see are two guys swinging flaming deamon swords around! Wow I'm glad I was wrong!
If you try the fire swords again I have a few suggestions to address the "burns the user" issue.
Use a saber that has a bowl or shell style guard to protect the hand from the open flame.
Only install the wick on the tip half of the blade (to push the flames farther away).
And a saber it will allow you to have the wick recessed in the fuller, so that it doesn't add as much thickness to the cross section, giving better cuts.
I would also like seeing it tested against cloth, since all of you where worried about being caught on fire. Dress up one of your maniquines in a tunic and gambison (if you have a spare) and do a few flaming test cuts to see if it actually ignites him.
If you want to test other weapons do it with long spears. Or better yet, a Roman Pilum with your fire wick wrapped around the iron shank.
Considering a realistic perspective on using a sword like this, I could see the wielder also having bottles of oil or even some form of greek fire that could be splashed on the opponent, environment, or sword to make the threat of fire much more deadly for the opposition (and really anyone involved).
This could effectively hard-counter Gambeson, if it manages to catch fire.
Coolest opening I have seen in a while!
I fully endorse the movement for more fire sword builds. Longer handles, internal wicks. Sparking gauntlets? (Maybe the thumb is flint and the fingers are steel) Internet science needs this.
Thanks!
I didn't even realize the music at the beginning was the channel theme until the intro kicked in! It's amazing, the drums and piano notes in the background especially.