This is part of TGC's coverage of Sonic the Hedgehog games! Don't miss them: ua-cam.com/play/PLYoabN6QznuIl47fs9wFK10HBJNqv_5P3.html (Oh, and this particular video has a lot of parallels with my DKC episode!)
The Geek Critique Sega didn't win, Sega still lost... Nintendo was ultimately not showing signs of stress, but Nintendo was worried, however despite Sega of America's success Japan was losing
Wow man, it's hard to imagine this came out when you only had 750 subs. I keep coming back to this series every once and a while, and now you're at 125k. Good on you.
Labyrinth is objectively worse due to the Water but Marble comes just after Green Hill making it's traditional linear design crash horribly. When you get to Labyrinth one is more prepared for a linear stage which in Labyrinth's defense it's actually less linear than Marble.
I swear, just as the Sonic games are replayable, your videos about the games are very re-watchable. I love coming back to this series as the effort you put into it really shows!
To me, Sonic 1 has one of the greatest starts to any game ever just because of Green Hill Zone. After that? For me it takes a bit of a nosedive. The other zones bar Starlight Zone are tedious! But we all got to start somewhere I suppose.
I found myself almost in disbelief at the umpteenth underground part of Marble Hill and saying "this doesn't feel like Sonic". Glad I'm not alone there. As an adult born in the 90's, I just finished my first replay of Sonic 1-3 and I'm watching these videos now, because I loved your Metroid videos. Fantastic content, sir
This is the best video about Sonic 1 ever made. It explains how Sonic has always been at its best when it defied Mario's straightline conventions. The rolling-ball-physics has yet to be fully realised in 3D (and when it does, that's when you'll see the 9/10 reviews that are the only thing that will shut up the religiously fervent haters.
It's more noticeable in the dreaded the horrible.... labyrinth zone! Because the water slows you down the enemies jump out of the ground without much telling! It's a horrible zone.
Ever since watching these videos, I learned the jump in the loop technique to gain speed. So now every time I play Green Hill Act One I die at the end of that loop like you show at 7:25. I think it's a symbol of skill!
Yep! You eventually have to learn to hold back on the d-pad through the tunnel. It seems like such an obvious glitch, I'm surprised they didn't catch it.
Man, I know I'm old now because I can still remember when "I'm playing Nintendo" or "let's play Nintendo" was a ubiquitous phrase. Crazy how far we've come.
Just discovered your videos - I really enjoy your in-depth commentary on some of my favorite games from my childhood: It’s entertaining AND informative. Subscribed 😁
Another top-notch video! Like I've said in the streams; I'm not a huge Sonic fan but these videos just make me think about Sonic in another way. I'm slowly starting to understand what's so great about Sonic. I can't wait for the next part!
Glad you're enjoying them! And yeah, I know what you mean. There are plenty of games that I don't really enjoy playing. Something like League of Legends, for instance. But just by looking up a little info on it, I could already tell that the game had a great deal of strategic depth, and I can see why people enjoy it.
It must've been mentioned among the sea of 5 years-worth of comments, but I thought of something else about that opening to Green Hill: the way the box is positioned above you almost prods you to jump from below into it, as you know from Mario and his ? blocks, which is when you will bonk from below and will learn that not every rule is the same. You learned from the badnik that you can jump on him, just like Mario, but that doesn't mean that everything will be like Mario. Great series btw, I've since played all of the classic games, and about 5 playthroughs of Mania.
How does this channel not have 100,000 subscribers - easily some of the best retrogaming videos I've ever seen! Sharing this on my website and reddit and facebook immediately!
Possibly part of the reason Marble was such a shocking difference was because it was originally the 4th zone, not the second. Labyrinth was supposed to come second, but its difficulty abd overall design had it traded with Marble instead.
i will never forget the day my brother gave me his sega genesis and all his games. i was 6 and had just got home from school, he was setting it up and popped in the 6pak for me. completely solidified my love for sonic and shinobi that day.
Greetings from France ! I absolutely love your final sentence, Sonic wasn't maybe as good as Mario in every department, but by simply being anything but it, it kicked Nintendo real hard
I mean this in the highest compliment, but this was one of your earlier videos and the quality is just as good as your later videos. Most UA-camrs you can tell a massive difference between their early videos and their videos now. I don't see that here. You started out with high quality and just continued.
Hey, that's really cool of you to say! :D _I_ certainly see a lot of things I'd do differently now, and my videos tend to be way more comprehensive (read: longer) these days, but I really did have a good handle on video editing by this point thanks to all the Let's Plays we used to do. Other than that, TGC comes down to the quality of the script and voiceover, and even though that part takes a lot longer now and I take a lot more time fussing over the finer details, the process overall hasn't changed much.
Those Let's Plays must have helped! Sonic and the Power Rangers were huge influences on me as a kid. Sonic was the first game I ever played and I got the Dreamcast on Launch Day (the only time I have ever done that and I ordered it from Amazon wayyy back in 1999). I played almost all of the those Power Ranger games you reviewed and that brought back a lot of memories. I like how you review a game for what is, not what it isn't or could be. You critique it, but still give your opinion. Thanks for putting out great content!
Hyle from DK Vine says: Being a Nintendo loyalist all my life, I first played Sonic the Hedgehog (and a Sega Genesis) at my parents' friends house. They had a son who was about five years older than me and had a Genesis. I have to say how mind-blowing it was for me. I felt guilty for playing it, because of the console war and Sega's mean-spirited anti-Nintendo commercials, but it was everything I thought it would be. Loud, brash, and FAST. It showed me, for the first time in my life, that there was something lacking in Mario. From that point on (and to this day), Mario seemed a little quaint. Of course, Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't really for me. It wasn't until 1994 that the platformer with people like me in mind was released, but I'll always owe the original Sonic a debt of gratitude.
I was never really exclusively dedicated to either Sega or Nintendo, but I do remember having a similar experience playing Crash Bandicoot 2 on a friend's PlayStation when I was a kid. I'm supposed to be staunchly anti-Sony... yet this is so much fun! Dammit. And now I've just reminded myself of Ben's old "Strange Bedfellows" feature. But really, he was right. Nobody else was doing a 3D platformer that played like a 2D platformer, or at least they weren't pulling it off nearly as well.
Sonic 1 was my first Sonic game. Didn't have a spin dash to miss back then. Just had trouble getting past the Labyrinth Zone boss. To this day I still vividly remember the day I first beat that boss.
Where it all began. A blue hedgehog that ran fast. Sonic 1 wasn't my first Sonic game, but I can appreciate that it was the one change how platform games can be played.
If I may, its because of watching your retrospective on Sonic that made me want to get into the franchise. What finally sold me was listening to the soundtrack "Undefeatable" from the Sonic Frontiers game. Over the years I did play my fair share of Sonic video games but they were only Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog which, at the time, I had no issues with probably because I was still a teenager when those were released. So.... as a 33 year old writing this comment I officially started playing the first Sonic title for the first time and........ im gonna need time to get used to it loll
Never owned a Genesis as a kid, my 1st exposure to gaming from what I remember was a NES in kindergarten from my now passed Uncle. I also got a SNES in the 3rd grade with funds me and my bro saved up even. My 1st game with Sonic was when I was a kid though and that was Sonic 2. I only got to play Sonic at friends or other family members homes and I played Sonic 1 later and yeah his point stands on it. Never was taking a side in Nintendo vs Sega wars though. I liked Sonic too much to do that. I even made a costume of Sonic out of paper when I was younger. When SA2B was on Gamecube it was awesome to me cause I could enjoy the best of both worlds easier. Granted I'm pretty sure that meant different things for others. Was never bugged by Sonic's new design either.
Just when I started to find myself not interested with most of youtube... I come across your channel. I can't get enough. Watched through DKC series, and SSB, excited to start this one!
1991: I liked Marble Zone but I played it on release back in the day. I think we were a whole lot more forgiving seeing the new graphics at the time. Platforms where if you stand on them too long they catch on fire. The columns have that glass reflection on them. Sonic is often doing his ledge stand animation. And the lava is just plain pretty to look at.
LOL Having played modern sonic before the classics when i picked up sonic 1 DUCK and JUMP is exactly the first thing i did when i got to green hill zone! You nailed it Geek
f0cusg0d I know, it's what everyone does! I once knew a guy online who claimed that he bought a Saturn just to get Sonic Jam, JUST so he could finally spin dash in Sonic 1.
Rewatching this series to get to the ones I have not seen yet. I love this channel. Love hearing your opinions... but also I love that you kinda sound like Wreck-It-Ralph and i just imagine him talking about games.
I 100% agree with this perspective. Green Hill Zone just might be the best 2D Sonic level of them all, and I just can't wrap my head around how they ruined that perfect formula throughout the rest of the game. 6:55 "It goes against the way the engine was designed" Absolutely. I'm watching the rest of your series now, great work.
7:05 Well, Mario is not just designed to be slow, I mean, there is never something really blocking you like the moving pillars (or whatever these are). Marble Zone is also very horizontal, so I don't think it is anything like a Mario level.
God DAMMIT! Every time i watch this series i get an uncontrollable urge to setup the Mega Drive (or Saturn) and play some Sonic games...... and now i have to do it again I hope you are pleased with yourself :P
The original Sonic games are all absolute classics in my eyes! I have a lot of nostalgia towards each of them. Yes, even the very first one. I will agree that between Marble Zone (Which I agree is a Mario level), Labyrinth Zone and Scrap Brain Zone, the speedy action is brought to a halt for half of the game's runtime. It's interesting to analyze the foundation upon which Sonic was built on. And as much as I can appreciate the slower, more methodical platforming, I do feel it was a wise decision to ditch it in favor of speed in the subsequent titles. Sonic The Hedgehog is also notable for introducing the momentum based gameplay, as you mentioned. It may not be the most accessible of the classic entries to new players, but it is a landmark title as the birth of the series.
My biggest complaint I had while playing sonic was that it's a game where speed it key, right? Gotta go fast! But the game punished you for going fast because as you were gaining speed and made a jump you would land on spikes or get hit by an enemy and it didn't feel fair. I have no problem with games being difficult. But if your difficulty is based on putting in unfair enemies then it no longer is fun. It just seemed odd that a game that wants to showcase speed and wants speed to be the biggest selling point would punish you for using these mechanics.
It seems unfair at first but if you sharpen your reflexes and anticipate what's ahead you'll be speeding through levels in no time the game doesn't give you speed you have to earn it
Johnny Mayfield I see your point, but at that point the game would be too linear. It's all about memorizing levels and creating the best route over time. As the othee guy said, you must work for speed.
When you're running down a slope make sure to press down and roll. That will get rid of the enemies in the way. Even when you're running in places that aren't slopes you can always roll just as you reach the end of the camera just to be safe. It's rare that you roll into a spike that isn't facing upwards, unless it's a blatant trap. Usually you only get hit by spike if you make the classic mistake of jumping at the wrong time. Not to mention the other big draw to Sonic is how he can platform every where with more freedom than Mario because of his spin jump, plus the more branching roads than other platformers at the time. And how quicker it was to platform and explore, not just quicker in running the roads.
Very well made video but I disagree too. I just don't think Sonic has ever had good game design - ever. The pace is uneven, and the speed makes it impossible to work out what to do next unless you've already memorised the level. Sonic Rush was pretty fun but had the exact same problem.
That's like saying Mario isn't well designed cuz the point is to run and jump, but running and jumping into certain things makes you die. A game gives you a set of skills and then challenges them. And if you're actually running into enemies that much, just roll. It's the whole reason sonic's a hedgehog. Honestly, why do so many people think this mantra is well thought out in the slightest.
I can't believe that Mario is the carriage and Sonic is the car because all other following games aren't Sonic, the way the following games 'were' Mario (as you showed) -- the car took over.
9:05 you could say +The Geek Critique , that it was a Leafyishere effect where people were tired of Leafyishere and started to want competition to get rid of him. People were a little tired of Mario, Sonic had a brand new style of gameplay, and kids started buying Sonic 1 over Mario world
I have a LOT of gripes about Sonic: The games' controls and physics are optimized for speed, and that clunkifies the precision platforming that the games try to do. Marble Zone is the epitome of this. And because half the games consist of BANG ZOOM FAST and the other half is waiting for platforms to move around and jumping slowly into bosses, the pace is all over the place and it's jarring. Mastery of slow-paced jump timing is not what this game is about, so the bosses teach you nothing. The "labyrinthine platformer" genre can work by tapping into a sense of exploration, which works best at a more leisurely pace. But that entirely conflicts with the pace that the game encourages. And that pace is TOO fast. The sheer speed devolves the game into a random, trial-and-error mess. With games like Mario and DK, you see exactly what needs to be done on the first run-through, and the challenge lies in executing it. With Sonic, you're constantly running into things unless you've memorized a level's layout. Granted, there are instances where a level's flow and design guide your speed pretty well, but most of the game is just pinballing everywhere and losing rings. Referring to something you said in the last entry, if you judge all other games' merits compared to the early Sonics, then you must really love video games, lol. But nonetheless, even though we have polar opposite opinions on this, your stuff is still great and thoughtful.
That was very intentional design philosophy behind Sonic - mastery through repetition. Each time you play you get better at navigating because you get familiar with the levels, avoiding hazards you now know are there, and finding shortcuts. I don't like the 2D Sonic games for the same reasons as you, but a lot of people do, and it was no accident that Sonic plays faster than you can react. But that makes it a frustrating experience for the players that don't enjoy the iterating to learn the levels by heart.
@@Vektorien545 Why? Sonic is design to compensate for this thanks to the Rings and sonics 360 degree attack radios which allow for a margin of Error making a first time throw much easier than in most traditional platformers Like Mario were you at best get 2 free hits before death not to mention that this games also have much much more instead death pits than Sonic making them for someone like me a frustrating mess because unlike Sonic were after my Fail I can still move on just fine do most other platformers make me start the level all over again.
Hey man i watched this on my ps4 where you can't comment so i signed in on my phone just to say this which i don't normally do tbh but i really enjoyed your take on this, particularly the way you broke down the first level. It was the best i think ive ever seen off of the top of my head and i would love to see you make a part 2 and go more in depth about the rest of the game.
Yeah i hear a lot "sonic was never good" or 'sonic was the best game ever' but this video puts that, and it's mechanics, into historical perspective. i had actually never considered the game changing first timers in sonic
Nice video! Your thoughts on Sonic 1 are compelling, and notes about stuff as simple as "the terrain isn't even" are valuable. If you can, though, I think it'd be beneficial to look at each act on its own. The game may seem "rough around the edges" for not pushing everything that Green Hill Zone does, but it's consistent about it. You'll find blocky, slow-paced platforming in both the Marble and Labyrinth Zones--it does a call and response between fast zones and slow zones. I could go on, but I probably shouldn't. Point is, Sonic 1 is more modest than the later Genesis entries and is more consistent for it. The latter ones do some incredible things, but they don't hit that same rock-solid structure and pacing that Sonic 1 does. Isn't it crazy that Green Hill Zone and Marble Zone are the only zones in the game with that uneven grassy terrain?
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that the rest of the game is badly-designed by any means, or that every level should match the design of Green Hill. That'd get boring. I just think the later classics were a lot better about keeping Sonic's signature gameplay style intact while ramping up the difficulty. For instance, one of the slowest, hardest acts in S3&K is Sandopolis act 2. But even there, there's still plenty of sloped terrain and physics tricks going on. It still feels like a Sonic level to me. You won't find zones as traditional in any game past Sonic 1. Well, until you get to Lost World, but I'm getting WAY ahead of myself. ;) SuperGolemio
I'm from Brazil and Sega had a bigger market here, than Nintendo, I remember the first time that I see the Green Hill zone as a kid, all that flashy colors and how fast Sonic was, that blew my mind! There wasn't nothing like that in the time and sadly the emulators don't reproduce 100% the same experience than the console.
3:47 - Technically, not the birth of platforming physics. If you play Level 3-4 on Super Mario Bros. 3 and slide down a slope, you can gain a lot of jumping momentum afterwards, enough to clear a wide water bed.
Hey it's me Nexusmax from the forums. I'm just here to say good job on the video. I really enjoyed it. Fun Fact: Pac Land (1984) is the first 2D sidescroller to exist. And Super Mario Bros (1985) took inspiration from it. If you don't believe this pointless fact of mine then feel free to look it up.
Never finished Sonic because the next map wasn't as fun or addictive like the first one. The game was nice but... Man, buying a genesis just for the first lvl in Sonic was too much.
Our video game rooms growing up were always called "The Nintendo Room" for years. Even though we had other companies products. Intro reminded me of that.
Heheh, nah, I meant what I said. There's actually a rant about "the Mario approach to water levels" that I probably first brainstormed during this episode, but which didn't actually make it into a video until Tropical Freeze (which comes out on Saturday.) But Sonic didn't take that approach at all, and I never minded Labyrinth as much as most people seemed to. Nonetheless, if was trying to rank Sonic 1 stages from best to worst: Green Hill > Star Light > Scrap Brain > Spring Yard > Labyrinth > Marble
I actually quite liked Marble Zone, I appreciated the slower platform gaming that's so different to Green Hill zone. For me, stages from best to worst would be: Green Hill > Marble > Starlight > Scrap Brain > Spring Yard > Labyrinth. I've only just discovered your channel by the way but I'm already really enjoying your videos. :)
Great video, as usual. Watching it for the second time while I wait for the Prime/Retro series to arrive. But I can't help but think "Sonic won" is quite a bold statement, given that basically all post-sonic 2d platformers follow what you perceive as a sort of "Mario school of platforming": VVVVVV, Super Meat Boy, Metroids (virtually all metroidvanias, in fact), Braid, Ori. In fact, I can't really think of many non-sonic games that followed Sega's formula.
Wow, thank you! You keep that up, you'll eventually have watched them more times than me! Smash Bros. is on its way. The script is done and quite polished, the footage is all capped. It's getting delayed due to schoolwork (I'm in my last semester of college), but I'm currently aiming to get it released over the weekend.
I would have to respectfully disagree about Marble Hill Zone. Even though it was more linear it really eased players into most of platform challenges that people would expect for the rest of the game. I think any level that is well designed; will hold the player back so that they have to master a technique before moving on. Sonic 1 has a diagonal learning curve as it consistently increases the difficulty throughout the game. Mario kind of did but not quite to the same level as Sonic. Which, I think the latter games benefited by having player experience enter into the equation so they could get away without having to teach much and get right to the unique levels and newer mechanics.
I can relate to older games being harder to play after a sequel. I try to play games in order of release for that reason. You smartly played Metroid by that order. For another example, Kirby Amazing mirror is the superior game to Kirby Squeak Squad as far as level design, amount of content and boss battles, but it is hard for to play Amazing Mirror after Squeak Squad, especially right after playing Squeak Squad, because Kirby himself can do so much more in Squeak Squad. And Squeak Squad Kirby still can't do as much as Super Star Kirby. You see, Kirby Super Star built on it's predecessor, Kirby's Adventure, but every Kirby game either went back and built on Adventure, and always built less, or was an almost unrelated experiment. Imagine being a fan who liked Kirby Super Star and having Kirby's Dreamland 3, Kirby 64, Kirby Amazing Mirror and Kirby Squeak Squad in a seemingly never ending stream. These weren't even bad games, just less than an aging Super Nintendo title. Stuff like Canvas Curse and Epic Yarn, what by rights should have been spinoffs, had basically became the face of the series, all that was fresh. And when Kirby Super Star got it's Ultra Remake it honestly felt like a new fresh game. Kirby's Return To Dreamland may have lacked Sakurai's touch, but knowing the platform games were finally moving on from the NES model was such a relief! ...I still haven't bought The Genesis Sonic games. I'll get around to it.
Good stuff but Marble Zone isn't quite a Mario level, it's multi layered, has alternate paths and secret shortcuts through some of the walls. It's more like the SMW ghost houses or yoshi's island cave levels. 8:50 That's not objective, you just prefer those things over the other :P
BlazeHeatnix - Definitive Dubs Nah, it's just part of a thumbnail test for me. All the Sonic retrospective videos have them now. I've been getting more and more hits as a result of suggested videos, and having consistent thumbnails will really help with that. Once I get around to it, all the videos on the channel will be done in a similar style.
Sonic CD is next eh? I look forward to a 10 minute video about how the game has no flow whatsoever, and that cramming 3 stage designs into one is always a bad idea.
I've got an idea for the next video that I don't think I've ever seen anyone do before. It's nothing too major, but yeah, Sonic CD is gonna be a fun one.
Sonic 1 was the one I played the least over the years, I went back to it last night and I think it's my favorite of the trilogy. 2's Chemical plant with the drowning is bullshit and it always feels like luck when I beat it no matter how many hours I put into it. And 3 while fun has so much shit in the foreground I feel like I'm having a sensory overload and can't tell what's actually lethal in the first 2 acts. I actually love Marble Zone, but maybe that means I'm not a fan of sonic in general.
This is part of TGC's coverage of Sonic the Hedgehog games! Don't miss them: ua-cam.com/play/PLYoabN6QznuIl47fs9wFK10HBJNqv_5P3.html
(Oh, and this particular video has a lot of parallels with my DKC episode!)
The Geek Critique Sega didn't win, Sega still lost... Nintendo was ultimately not showing signs of stress, but Nintendo was worried, however despite Sega of America's success Japan was losing
Never noticed the gentle learning curve in Green Hill, I guess it's a very good level design then!
Ha
Curve
Good one
Wow man, it's hard to imagine this came out when you only had 750 subs. I keep coming back to this series every once and a while, and now you're at 125k. Good on you.
Wait, your least favorite zone is Marble Zone?
That's a breath of fresh air from everyone complaining about Labyrinth Zone
I haaaate marble zone
I actually didn't mind both of them.
Seriously, fuck Marble Zone. It's straight up not fun, and not what you should be giving your players after the rush of Green Hill Zone.
Labyrinth is objectively worse due to the Water but Marble comes just after Green Hill making it's traditional linear design crash horribly. When you get to Labyrinth one is more prepared for a linear stage which in Labyrinth's defense it's actually less linear than Marble.
At least Labyrinth has cool music
"We have about 750 subs at this point so join in before we sell out." proceeds to not sell out but grow his subscriber base like crazy. Good job.
I swear, just as the Sonic games are replayable, your videos about the games are very re-watchable. I love coming back to this series as the effort you put into it really shows!
To me, Sonic 1 has one of the greatest starts to any game ever just because of Green Hill Zone. After that? For me it takes a bit of a nosedive. The other zones bar Starlight Zone are tedious!
But we all got to start somewhere I suppose.
I found myself almost in disbelief at the umpteenth underground part of Marble Hill and saying "this doesn't feel like Sonic". Glad I'm not alone there. As an adult born in the 90's, I just finished my first replay of Sonic 1-3 and I'm watching these videos now, because I loved your Metroid videos. Fantastic content, sir
"750 subs as of this video"
My, how far we've come
Ducktales was always the only real game-changer in the history of the industry. I bet you put those Ducktales bits in there just for me.
Vkmies You are correct. I could have used Colmmander Keen as a pogo-bouncing hero.
The Geek Critique Makes me feel so special.
This is the best video about Sonic 1 ever made. It explains how Sonic has always been at its best when it defied Mario's straightline conventions. The rolling-ball-physics has yet to be fully realised in 3D (and when it does, that's when you'll see the 9/10 reviews that are the only thing that will shut up the religiously fervent haters.
Sonic Utopia is the closest thing to that. The technology is getting there, and it’s only matter of a time.
It's not the haters who are religiously fervent. It's the fanbase constantly arguing amongst itself about which games were good and which ones sucked.
It's more noticeable in the dreaded the horrible.... labyrinth zone! Because the water slows you down the enemies jump out of the ground without much telling! It's a horrible zone.
Ever since watching these videos, I learned the jump in the loop technique to gain speed. So now every time I play Green Hill Act One I die at the end of that loop like you show at 7:25. I think it's a symbol of skill!
Yep! You eventually have to learn to hold back on the d-pad through the tunnel. It seems like such an obvious glitch, I'm surprised they didn't catch it.
Man, I know I'm old now because I can still remember when "I'm playing Nintendo" or "let's play Nintendo" was a ubiquitous phrase. Crazy how far we've come.
Great video. You did an excellent job breaking down Sonic's game design. Consider me subbed.
Even today, Sonic The Hedgehog is still an amazing game. There were a lot of improvements, but this is still a great game
Just discovered your videos - I really enjoy your in-depth commentary on some of my favorite games from my childhood: It’s entertaining AND informative. Subscribed 😁
Another top-notch video! Like I've said in the streams; I'm not a huge Sonic fan but these videos just make me think about Sonic in another way. I'm slowly starting to understand what's so great about Sonic. I can't wait for the next part!
Glad you're enjoying them! And yeah, I know what you mean. There are plenty of games that I don't really enjoy playing. Something like League of Legends, for instance. But just by looking up a little info on it, I could already tell that the game had a great deal of strategic depth, and I can see why people enjoy it.
It must've been mentioned among the sea of 5 years-worth of comments, but I thought of something else about that opening to Green Hill: the way the box is positioned above you almost prods you to jump from below into it, as you know from Mario and his ? blocks, which is when you will bonk from below and will learn that not every rule is the same. You learned from the badnik that you can jump on him, just like Mario, but that doesn't mean that everything will be like Mario.
Great series btw, I've since played all of the classic games, and about 5 playthroughs of Mania.
How does this channel not have 100,000 subscribers - easily some of the best retrogaming videos I've ever seen! Sharing this on my website and reddit and facebook immediately!
Lol, lmao even
Possibly part of the reason Marble was such a shocking difference was because it was originally the 4th zone, not the second. Labyrinth was supposed to come second, but its difficulty abd overall design had it traded with Marble instead.
i will never forget the day my brother gave me his sega genesis and all his games. i was 6 and had just got home from school, he was setting it up and popped in the 6pak for me. completely solidified my love for sonic and shinobi that day.
Greetings from France ! I absolutely love your final sentence, Sonic wasn't maybe as good as Mario in every department, but by simply being anything but it, it kicked Nintendo real hard
I mean this in the highest compliment, but this was one of your earlier videos and the quality is just as good as your later videos. Most UA-camrs you can tell a massive difference between their early videos and their videos now. I don't see that here. You started out with high quality and just continued.
Hey, that's really cool of you to say! :D _I_ certainly see a lot of things I'd do differently now, and my videos tend to be way more comprehensive (read: longer) these days, but I really did have a good handle on video editing by this point thanks to all the Let's Plays we used to do. Other than that, TGC comes down to the quality of the script and voiceover, and even though that part takes a lot longer now and I take a lot more time fussing over the finer details, the process overall hasn't changed much.
Those Let's Plays must have helped! Sonic and the Power Rangers were huge influences on me as a kid. Sonic was the first game I ever played and I got the Dreamcast on Launch Day (the only time I have ever done that and I ordered it from Amazon wayyy back in 1999). I played almost all of the those Power Ranger games you reviewed and that brought back a lot of memories. I like how you review a game for what is, not what it isn't or could be. You critique it, but still give your opinion. Thanks for putting out great content!
Hyle from DK Vine says: Being a Nintendo loyalist all my life, I first played Sonic the Hedgehog (and a Sega Genesis) at my parents' friends house. They had a son who was about five years older than me and had a Genesis. I have to say how mind-blowing it was for me. I felt guilty for playing it, because of the console war and Sega's mean-spirited anti-Nintendo commercials, but it was everything I thought it would be. Loud, brash, and FAST. It showed me, for the first time in my life, that there was something lacking in Mario. From that point on (and to this day), Mario seemed a little quaint.
Of course, Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't really for me. It wasn't until 1994 that the platformer with people like me in mind was released, but I'll always owe the original Sonic a debt of gratitude.
I was never really exclusively dedicated to either Sega or Nintendo, but I do remember having a similar experience playing Crash Bandicoot 2 on a friend's PlayStation when I was a kid. I'm supposed to be staunchly anti-Sony... yet this is so much fun! Dammit.
And now I've just reminded myself of Ben's old "Strange Bedfellows" feature. But really, he was right. Nobody else was doing a 3D platformer that played like a 2D platformer, or at least they weren't pulling it off nearly as well.
Sonic 1 was my first Sonic game. Didn't have a spin dash to miss back then. Just had trouble getting past the Labyrinth Zone boss. To this day I still vividly remember the day I first beat that boss.
Where it all began. A blue hedgehog that ran fast. Sonic 1 wasn't my first Sonic game, but I can appreciate that it was the one change how platform games can be played.
If I may, its because of watching your retrospective on Sonic that made me want to get into the franchise. What finally sold me was listening to the soundtrack "Undefeatable" from the Sonic Frontiers game. Over the years I did play my fair share of Sonic video games but they were only Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog which, at the time, I had no issues with probably because I was still a teenager when those were released. So.... as a 33 year old writing this comment I officially started playing the first Sonic title for the first time and........ im gonna need time to get used to it loll
Never owned a Genesis as a kid, my 1st exposure to gaming from what I remember was a NES in kindergarten from my now passed Uncle. I also got a SNES in the 3rd grade with funds me and my bro saved up even.
My 1st game with Sonic was when I was a kid though and that was Sonic 2. I only got to play Sonic at friends or other family members homes and I played Sonic 1 later and yeah his point stands on it.
Never was taking a side in Nintendo vs Sega wars though. I liked Sonic too much to do that. I even made a costume of Sonic out of paper when I was younger. When SA2B was on Gamecube it was awesome to me cause I could enjoy the best of both worlds easier. Granted I'm pretty sure that meant different things for others. Was never bugged by Sonic's new design either.
You can tell it's a Sonic 1 review when half the video is dedicated to Green Hill Zone
Just when I started to find myself not interested with most of youtube... I come across your channel. I can't get enough. Watched through DKC series, and SSB, excited to start this one!
I watched this once three years ago. And was looking for it up until this moment!
Thanks to this video, I noticed how similar Sonic Adventure's physics are to Sonic 1's Physics.
3:58 Actually, the concept of a variable jump was literally one of SMB1's greatest innovations.
I know, right? But 2014 Josh was still just a baby, he didn't grow up with SMB and that thought had never occurred to him.
1991: I liked Marble Zone but I played it on release back in the day. I think we were a whole lot more forgiving seeing the new graphics at the time. Platforms where if you stand on them too long they catch on fire. The columns have that glass reflection on them. Sonic is often doing his ledge stand animation. And the lava is just plain pretty to look at.
LOL Having played modern sonic before the classics when i picked up sonic 1 DUCK and JUMP is exactly the first thing i did when i got to green hill zone!
You nailed it Geek
f0cusg0d I know, it's what everyone does! I once knew a guy online who claimed that he bought a Saturn just to get Sonic Jam, JUST so he could finally spin dash in Sonic 1.
I was like is this game bugged or smth
+The Geek Critique I believe it! I bought Sonic Jam for that reason & because Sonic Genesis pissed me off so much!
Rewatching this series to get to the ones I have not seen yet. I love this channel. Love hearing your opinions... but also I love that you kinda sound like Wreck-It-Ralph and i just imagine him talking about games.
The editing of your videos is insanely good...
I 100% agree with this perspective. Green Hill Zone just might be the best 2D Sonic level of them all, and I just can't wrap my head around how they ruined that perfect formula throughout the rest of the game. 6:55 "It goes against the way the engine was designed" Absolutely. I'm watching the rest of your series now, great work.
7:05
Well, Mario is not just designed to be slow, I mean, there is never something really blocking you like the moving pillars (or whatever these are). Marble Zone is also very horizontal, so I don't think it is anything like a Mario level.
God DAMMIT!
Every time i watch this series i get an uncontrollable urge to setup the Mega Drive (or Saturn) and play some Sonic games...... and now i have to do it again
I hope you are pleased with yourself :P
Your clips and narration and details and critiques are SPOT ON. @thegeekcritique
Sega needs to take notes on this.
Yet Marble Zone is my favorite stage in Sonic 1. Great review to watch.
From 750 to 27k subs! You deserve each one, great job!
The original Sonic games are all absolute classics in my eyes! I have a lot of nostalgia towards each of them. Yes, even the very first one. I will agree that between Marble Zone (Which I agree is a Mario level), Labyrinth Zone and Scrap Brain Zone, the speedy action is brought to a halt for half of the game's runtime. It's interesting to analyze the foundation upon which Sonic was built on. And as much as I can appreciate the slower, more methodical platforming, I do feel it was a wise decision to ditch it in favor of speed in the subsequent titles. Sonic The Hedgehog is also notable for introducing the momentum based gameplay, as you mentioned. It may not be the most accessible of the classic entries to new players, but it is a landmark title as the birth of the series.
My biggest complaint I had while playing sonic was that it's a game where speed it key, right? Gotta go fast! But the game punished you for going fast because as you were gaining speed and made a jump you would land on spikes or get hit by an enemy and it didn't feel fair. I have no problem with games being difficult. But if your difficulty is based on putting in unfair enemies then it no longer is fun. It just seemed odd that a game that wants to showcase speed and wants speed to be the biggest selling point would punish you for using these mechanics.
It seems unfair at first but if you sharpen your reflexes and anticipate what's ahead you'll be speeding through levels in no time the game doesn't give you speed you have to earn it
Johnny Mayfield I see your point, but at that point the game would be too linear.
It's all about memorizing levels and creating the best route over time.
As the othee guy said, you must work for speed.
When you're running down a slope make sure to press down and roll. That will get rid of the enemies in the way. Even when you're running in places that aren't slopes you can always roll just as you reach the end of the camera just to be safe. It's rare that you roll into a spike that isn't facing upwards, unless it's a blatant trap. Usually you only get hit by spike if you make the classic mistake of jumping at the wrong time. Not to mention the other big draw to Sonic is how he can platform every where with more freedom than Mario because of his spin jump, plus the more branching roads than other platformers at the time. And how quicker it was to platform and explore, not just quicker in running the roads.
Very well made video but I disagree too. I just don't think Sonic has ever had good game design - ever. The pace is uneven, and the speed makes it impossible to work out what to do next unless you've already memorised the level. Sonic Rush was pretty fun but had the exact same problem.
That's like saying Mario isn't well designed cuz the point is to run and jump, but running and jumping into certain things makes you die. A game gives you a set of skills and then challenges them. And if you're actually running into enemies that much, just roll. It's the whole reason sonic's a hedgehog.
Honestly, why do so many people think this mantra is well thought out in the slightest.
Sonic was just a simple platformer that rewards replaying levels. It's good.
I can't believe that Mario is the carriage and Sonic is the car because all other following games aren't Sonic, the way the following games 'were' Mario (as you showed) -- the car took over.
9:05 you could say +The Geek Critique , that it was a Leafyishere effect where people were tired of Leafyishere and started to want competition to get rid of him.
People were a little tired of Mario, Sonic had a brand new style of gameplay, and kids started buying Sonic 1 over Mario world
Loving all the classic song remixes.
Yeah, NicoCW is the one doing literally all of 'em in this video. Definitely check him out if you haven't!
I have a LOT of gripes about Sonic:
The games' controls and physics are optimized for speed, and that clunkifies the precision platforming that the games try to do. Marble Zone is the epitome of this. And because half the games consist of BANG ZOOM FAST and the other half is waiting for platforms to move around and jumping slowly into bosses, the pace is all over the place and it's jarring. Mastery of slow-paced jump timing is not what this game is about, so the bosses teach you nothing.
The "labyrinthine platformer" genre can work by tapping into a sense of exploration, which works best at a more leisurely pace. But that entirely conflicts with the pace that the game encourages.
And that pace is TOO fast. The sheer speed devolves the game into a random, trial-and-error mess. With games like Mario and DK, you see exactly what needs to be done on the first run-through, and the challenge lies in executing it. With Sonic, you're constantly running into things unless you've memorized a level's layout. Granted, there are instances where a level's flow and design guide your speed pretty well, but most of the game is just pinballing everywhere and losing rings.
Referring to something you said in the last entry, if you judge all other games' merits compared to the early Sonics, then you must really love video games, lol. But nonetheless, even though we have polar opposite opinions on this, your stuff is still great and thoughtful.
That was very intentional design philosophy behind Sonic - mastery through repetition. Each time you play you get better at navigating because you get familiar with the levels, avoiding hazards you now know are there, and finding shortcuts. I don't like the 2D Sonic games for the same reasons as you, but a lot of people do, and it was no accident that Sonic plays faster than you can react. But that makes it a frustrating experience for the players that don't enjoy the iterating to learn the levels by heart.
@@tylisirn In my opinion, if the player can't get a grasp on a level or or mechanic the first time they face it. That's bad game design.
@@Vektorien545 Why?
Sonic is design to compensate for this thanks to the Rings and sonics 360 degree attack radios which allow for a margin of Error making a first time throw much easier than in most traditional platformers Like Mario were you at best get 2 free hits before death not to mention that this games also have much much more instead death pits than Sonic making them for someone like me a frustrating mess because unlike Sonic were after my Fail I can still move on just fine do most other platformers make me start the level all over again.
Personally all this reminds me of is Fancy Pants Adventure World 2
Oh god, I never knew that you could get that one extra life the way you did. Blew my mind! :)
say it wasn't competing they were winning and now they're completely and utterly losing damn things change so quick just like Sonic
Hey man i watched this on my ps4 where you can't comment so i signed in on my phone just to say this which i don't normally do tbh but i really enjoyed your take on this, particularly the way you broke down the first level. It was the best i think ive ever seen off of the top of my head and i would love to see you make a part 2 and go more in depth about the rest of the game.
Y'know, that might not be a bad idea eventually.
Watching this series again while having Sonic CD infinite fun screen playing great series by the way
youre awesome geek. i didnt have a genesis as a kid but this is gReat. good times more recently
4 years in the making, the sonic marathon!
Where green hill was your favorite teacher who set you on the right track, marble is that strict teacher that made that track even straighter
Yeah i hear a lot "sonic was never good" or 'sonic was the best game ever' but this video puts that, and it's mechanics, into historical perspective. i had actually never considered the game changing first timers in sonic
Nice video! Your thoughts on Sonic 1 are compelling, and notes about stuff as simple as "the terrain isn't even" are valuable. If you can, though, I think it'd be beneficial to look at each act on its own. The game may seem "rough around the edges" for not pushing everything that Green Hill Zone does, but it's consistent about it. You'll find blocky, slow-paced platforming in both the Marble and Labyrinth Zones--it does a call and response between fast zones and slow zones. I could go on, but I probably shouldn't. Point is, Sonic 1 is more modest than the later Genesis entries and is more consistent for it. The latter ones do some incredible things, but they don't hit that same rock-solid structure and pacing that Sonic 1 does.
Isn't it crazy that Green Hill Zone and Marble Zone are the only zones in the game with that uneven grassy terrain?
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that the rest of the game is badly-designed by any means, or that every level should match the design of Green Hill. That'd get boring. I just think the later classics were a lot better about keeping Sonic's signature gameplay style intact while ramping up the difficulty. For instance, one of the slowest, hardest acts in S3&K is Sandopolis act 2. But even there, there's still plenty of sloped terrain and physics tricks going on. It still feels like a Sonic level to me. You won't find zones as traditional in any game past Sonic 1. Well, until you get to Lost World, but I'm getting WAY ahead of myself. ;) SuperGolemio
I'm from Brazil and Sega had a bigger market here, than Nintendo, I remember the first time that I see the Green Hill zone as a kid, all that flashy colors and how fast Sonic was, that blew my mind! There wasn't nothing like that in the time and sadly the emulators don't reproduce 100% the same experience than the console.
3:47 - Technically, not the birth of platforming physics. If you play Level 3-4 on Super Mario Bros. 3 and slide down a slope, you can gain a lot of jumping momentum afterwards, enough to clear a wide water bed.
Watches 3 mins of this and love it! Physics!
Hey it's me Nexusmax from the forums. I'm just here to say good job on the video. I really enjoyed it.
Fun Fact: Pac Land (1984) is the first 2D sidescroller to exist. And Super Mario Bros (1985) took inspiration from it. If you don't believe this pointless fact of mine then feel free to look it up.
Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked it!
Can't wait to see what you think of Sonic Mania!
Never finished Sonic because the next map wasn't as fun or addictive like the first one. The game was nice but... Man, buying a genesis just for the first lvl in Sonic was too much.
Our video game rooms growing up were always called "The Nintendo Room" for years. Even though we had other companies products. Intro reminded me of that.
CatalystiCamiCation Yeah, before I ever got my Genesis, I remember seeing a friend's NES and thinking that's what I'd need to play Sonic.
Well technically you could have accidentally bought one of those bootleg sonic games for the NES, and had a really bad time with it.
The Geek Critique: "And while no other zone was nearly as bad as Marble Zone..."
Labyrinth Zone: "Hold my beer".
Heheh, nah, I meant what I said. There's actually a rant about "the Mario approach to water levels" that I probably first brainstormed during this episode, but which didn't actually make it into a video until Tropical Freeze (which comes out on Saturday.) But Sonic didn't take that approach at all, and I never minded Labyrinth as much as most people seemed to. Nonetheless, if was trying to rank Sonic 1 stages from best to worst:
Green Hill > Star Light > Scrap Brain > Spring Yard > Labyrinth > Marble
I actually quite liked Marble Zone, I appreciated the slower platform gaming that's so different to Green Hill zone.
For me, stages from best to worst would be: Green Hill > Marble > Starlight > Scrap Brain > Spring Yard > Labyrinth.
I've only just discovered your channel by the way but I'm already really enjoying your videos. :)
Great video, as usual. Watching it for the second time while I wait for the Prime/Retro series to arrive. But I can't help but think "Sonic won" is quite a bold statement, given that basically all post-sonic 2d platformers follow what you perceive as a sort of "Mario school of platforming": VVVVVV, Super Meat Boy, Metroids (virtually all metroidvanias, in fact), Braid, Ori. In fact, I can't really think of many non-sonic games that followed Sega's formula.
I couldn't appreciate this game when I got to experience sonic gems and sonic mega collection.
I was a nufan who only played the 3D sonic games.
So what do you think about the mario and mega man games?
After watching the ending I have to ask: Have you sold out by now or are you still working on it? ;-)
0:53 Move over plumber, the Hedgehog is in town.
Not gonna lie, this is the my fifth go at watching this retrospective. Can't wait for the Smash Bros one.
Wow, thank you! You keep that up, you'll eventually have watched them more times than me! Smash Bros. is on its way. The script is done and quite polished, the footage is all capped. It's getting delayed due to schoolwork (I'm in my last semester of college), but I'm currently aiming to get it released over the weekend.
The Geek Critique Cant' Wait. Keep up the amazing work dude
damn right. Blast processing!
Oh my god the pun in the end. Oh my god. I literally died of that.
That's what trying to record an ending after hours upon hours of editing will do! xD
It’s kind of funny that the iOS releases of Sonic 1 actually includes the spin dash so I didn’t have that issue.
750 subs then. Look at you now!
Finished DKC. Time to do Sonic!
I would have to respectfully disagree about Marble Hill Zone.
Even though it was more linear it really eased players into most of platform challenges that people would expect for the rest of the game.
I think any level that is well designed; will hold the player back so that they have to master a technique before moving on.
Sonic 1 has a diagonal learning curve as it consistently increases the difficulty throughout the game. Mario kind of did but not quite to the same level as Sonic.
Which, I think the latter games benefited by having player experience enter into the equation so they could get away without having to teach much and get right to the unique levels and newer mechanics.
I can relate to older games being harder to play after a sequel. I try to play games in order of release for that reason. You smartly played Metroid by that order. For another example, Kirby Amazing mirror is the superior game to Kirby Squeak Squad as far as level design, amount of content and boss battles, but it is hard for to play Amazing Mirror after Squeak Squad, especially right after playing Squeak Squad, because Kirby himself can do so much more in Squeak Squad. And Squeak Squad Kirby still can't do as much as Super Star Kirby.
You see, Kirby Super Star built on it's predecessor, Kirby's Adventure, but every Kirby game either went back and built on Adventure, and always built less, or was an almost unrelated experiment. Imagine being a fan who liked Kirby Super Star and having Kirby's Dreamland 3, Kirby 64, Kirby Amazing Mirror and Kirby Squeak Squad in a seemingly never ending stream. These weren't even bad games, just less than an aging Super Nintendo title. Stuff like Canvas Curse and Epic Yarn, what by rights should have been spinoffs, had basically became the face of the series, all that was fresh. And when Kirby Super Star got it's Ultra Remake it honestly felt like a new fresh game. Kirby's Return To Dreamland may have lacked Sakurai's touch, but knowing the platform games were finally moving on from the NES model was such a relief!
...I still haven't bought The Genesis Sonic games. I'll get around to it.
"Nothing about Sonic is static." Marble Hill Zone.
Wonderful analysis.
I'm a Nintendo fan, a Mario fan, but i gotta be honest, I much prefer classic sonic to classic Mario.
Hotdogtodd 2.0 I'm the opposite.
This game had fast levels (such as Green Hill) and slow levels (such as Marble and Labyrinth)
Marble Zone: Hey, let's drop Sonic & the badniks in Altered Beast.
I liked marble zone! But i played it when it came out, so I wasnt thinking about does it fit the design..cause it was the first sonic game.
Good stuff but Marble Zone isn't quite a Mario level, it's multi layered, has alternate paths and secret shortcuts through some of the walls. It's more like the SMW ghost houses or yoshi's island cave levels.
8:50 That's not objective, you just prefer those things over the other :P
Why'd you change the thumbnail? Did the artist ask you to take the art down?
BlazeHeatnix - Definitive Dubs Nah, it's just part of a thumbnail test for me. All the Sonic retrospective videos have them now. I've been getting more and more hits as a result of suggested videos, and having consistent thumbnails will really help with that. Once I get around to it, all the videos on the channel will be done in a similar style.
"Nintendo is an adjective, not a noun" Ouch, my brain!
Sonic CD is next eh? I look forward to a 10 minute video about how the game has no flow whatsoever, and that cramming 3 stage designs into one is always a bad idea.
I've got an idea for the next video that I don't think I've ever seen anyone do before. It's nothing too major, but yeah, Sonic CD is gonna be a fun one.
TGC: sega wasn't just competing they were winning... Nintendo:HA HA HA HA I think we all know what happened
Wait so you played the 16-bit Sonics in the order 2, 3, 1, S&K? So did I!
Eh, when I say "3," I usually mean "3 & Knuckles." Technically I went 2, 3, S&K, 1.
Are you gonna do one about the shadow game?
1:06 Did Sonic predict the future? He FRICKIN DABBED
aaah blast process!
I’m so confused. It felt like you were just getting started then you hit Marble Hill Zone and starting teeing up your outro...
Ok can I just say, people talk about games teaching through gameplay. But really, how many of us read through the manual which told us everything
What's that star light zone remix called at 3:50
Sonic 1 was the one I played the least over the years, I went back to it last night and I think it's my favorite of the trilogy. 2's Chemical plant with the drowning is bullshit and it always feels like luck when I beat it no matter how many hours I put into it. And 3 while fun has so much shit in the foreground I feel like I'm having a sensory overload and can't tell what's actually lethal in the first 2 acts. I actually love Marble Zone, but maybe that means I'm not a fan of sonic in general.