Great topic! I have always found Advaita a perfect clarifying companion for Zen, and vice versa as well. And have also found various Advaita teachers extolling certain Hindu practices as a path towards the goal of true non-dualistic realization. Somehow it all fits. Once again, thanks for discussing this. See ya! 🤙
In my experience, Nisargadatta Maharaj is a relative newcomer. I don't remember him from before the late 1990s when I saw ads for his books in Tricycle and other Buddhist publications. I now read that he was active and being published in the 70s. When I think of Advaita getting introduced to the west, I see Swami Vivekananda in the 1890s, and Paramhansa Yogananda landing with his autobiography in 1952. They both became best sellers in the early 1970s.
Great topic, as usual. The only thing I would respectfully disagree with is the idea of just taking one practice and following it through all the way, to the exclusion of all others. Having come through the various traditions and practices I have known in my lifetime, (Basic "Americana" Christianity, "Born Again" Christianity, Buddhism in various flavors, most recently Zen, Wicca, and Native American religious philosophy), I feel they have made me a very well rounded person who has knowledge and experience of what others have done in pursuit of Trurh and Wisdom; that which is truly HUMAN. It's like playing various musical instruments, which I do, or cooking and eating various cuisines, which I also do. "Variety is the Spice of Life!" Right? Yes, it can make you a "Jack of All Trades" and such, but since we're only only this Earth for a little while anyway, why limit ourselves?? To claim to be a "Master" of anything in one lifetime is simply hubris. (Not that I'm suggesting you've claimed to be any sort of "Master"; you've always struck me as a pretty humble guy.) Just my personal opinion. 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Brad! I was struggling with the comparison of Advaita and Zen for a long time. I came from Advaita to being a serious Zen practitioner and the way they use specific terms for different things confused me a lot. Atman here, self there, anatta, conciousnes and so on. But listening to this video eased my mind a lot!
Whatever is "true" and is spoken about will of course be framed in the language/culture of the individual. The "truth" of Zen spoken by a Japanese or the "truth" of Advaita spoken by Nisargadatta must be the same but the flavor of the words must be different. Bankei and Nisargadatta have been my pointers for many years. Great gratitude to them!
Very Interesting Brad! I had been following you for quite sometime. Nice to hear your perspective on Advaita and Zen. From my perspective, both the traditions are talking about the same thing. The language and approach seem to be a little different. Less stress on the ethical parts in Traditional Advaita stems from the fact that Advaita assumes a very high ethical standard, excellence in concentration etc ('sadhan chatustaya') from the student to begin with. It was assumed that the student would stay in monk-like fashion, dutifully serve the master and the tradition like in the good old days. Thus, some of the teachers may not even suggest a practice for some of the students. In fact, teachers may appear to be just talking about dry philosophy while not giving anything for the student to hold on to. But there is an internal logic to this approach which may not be apparent right away, very similar to zen. Would highly recommend the lectures from Swami Sarvapriyananda for knowing more about Advaita Vedanta in a traditional setting. With regards to Hinduism being somewhat a mix of different religions is kind of incorrect. There were different sects (sampradayas) that debated ('shastratha') viciously among each other but by in large all of them considered themselves in the umbrella of 'Sanatan Dharma'. In fact, it has only been less than 50 years that Buddhism has started being considered a different religion (of course there are some caveats there). A lot of the confusion stems from the incorrect usage of the word religion in the Indic context (Dharmic context). Anyways, I love your work! I had become interested in Zen and Buddhism all because of you :) Do let me know in case you plan to come to India sometime. Would be happy to host you :) Edit: Grammar and some phrases.
Nissargadatta promised his guru to hold bhagans and anyway he enjoyed it before encountering Advaita Vedanta, so was predisposed towards that id say. Ramesh said he never really enjoyed it and was allowed to leave when the symbols started crashing and the singing was going on, he only attended talks. But i think that was more because of his sensitivity and tendency for headaches.. Ramesh did 20 years of mantra meditation with his earlier guru who was a very traditional Vedantan, he said he practiced so much the mantra was going on by itself.
Thanks for taking on this topic, Brad. I've gone down the Advaita rabbit hole myself over the last several months. What really got me intrigued was, like you mentioned, the similarity between shikantaza and meditation in the Advaita tradition. What stood out, in contrast, was the emphasis on self-inquiry in Advaita. Is there anything in the zen tradition like self-inquiry that you know of?
@@shamerdog "Who is dragging this corpse around?" The practices are very different. In Advaita you ask the question and expect no answer. and you let it go.. In Chan "you" sit with it as you would any Koan for days or weeks or ...
Like the others who have answered, I would say that the koan tradition has a lot of stuff that's analogous to self-inquiry. Kodo Sawaki talked about "the self that selfs the self."
How could there not be common ground between the two? Advaita, Zen Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, Chan all fall under the umbrella of Non Duality. There is only one thing going on.... ;)
@@williamcallahan5218 advaita departs from soto zen in the sense that zazen isn't emphasized much. They both deal with non duality but the approach is different.
Zazen: the practice to watch your mind in order to see clearly how deluded you really are. (We always create all of our problems as problems do not exist outside of the mind.)
What? No kaiju-style city wrecking throwdown? Oh well, nice talk, as usual. The teachings of Nisargadatta Maharaj are so clear and direct. Perhaps it is because, by his own reckoning, he was basically a simple man. On the other hand, didn't Dogen say that, by his own reckoning, he was prone to using flowery language? In any case, interesting comparison. Enjoy your travels!
Not sure whether you were using the Sanskrit word "dhyāna" (of which the Pāḷi form is, unhelpfully in this case, "jhāna") or "jñāna"; "dhyāna" (from the root "dhyā-" "to see") is the term that the mediæval Chinese rendered "chán'nǎ," which was truncated to "chán," which is pronounced "zen" in Japanese. "Jñāna" (Pāḷi "ñāṇa"), on the other hand, means "knowledge," coming from "jñā-" "to know," to which the Greek "γνῶ-" (as in "gnōsis") and English "know" are cognate.
Hi Brad! Have you ever read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali? There's a translation from Edwin Bryant that's very scholar and fancy. He also has lots of interviews on UA-cam, maybe you'd find the whole thing interesting. It's like a hyper-systematizatized manual to run away from Samsara, with comments on ethics, superpowers and the good 'ol "Brahman=Atman" plot twist (I'm really making a disservice to the philosophy with this way of expressing myself, sorry).
@@HardcoreZen I was just thinking about Patanjali when Brad mentioned that Advaita has no emphasis on ethics. Patanjali is not specifically from the Advaita tradition but the 8 limbs being Niyama, Yama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi cover pretty much everything. Even knee pain. Niyama and Yama is about how to treat others and yourself. Asanas are what people nowadays (falsely) call yoga. Yoga is all the 8 combined. Pranayama is about managing the energy flow in your body. I sometimes struggle with Pratyahara but it's the withdrawal of the senses, so probably the whole "shining the light inwards" thing. Dharana is making an effort to "meditate". Dhyana is meditation which can not be done but happens by itself without any doer involved, meaning Zen. And Samadhi would be some Kensho stuff? I'm not sure. Or maybe a long lasting Kensho experience. Patanjali is always my go-to spiritual practice guide. Even for Zen. I transfer Zen ethics into Niyama and Yama, do Asanas and Pranayama to keep the body/mind healthy, sit Zazen and everything else is not this Waga's business. Patanjali and Zen complement each other so well!
During I was watching this video, I got surprise. I have heard about Maurice Frydman and I knew he was a Gandhi's friend and perhaps a member of The Theosophical Society, who translated some Hindu texts into Polish, but I didn't know he was connected with Maharishi. Yet both (Polish and English) Wikipedias claim that it's the same person.
Maurice Frydman, was an extraordinary genious. He had several patents and inventions to his name. He in fact had improved upon Gandhi's charkha (spinning wheel), had played a significant role in convincing the then prime minister of India in accepting the Dalai lama into India as a spiritual leader. He has written extraordinary books on Ramana Maharshi's teaching with pseudo name. He himself stayed in a monk-like fashion and did a lot for India. Check out David Godman's words for him: ua-cam.com/video/0xayU4f5--I/v-deo.html&ab_channel=BuddhaAtTheGasPump
To have a masterpiece like I Am That translated by a realized person (Nisargadatta specifically said that Frydman was a Jnani) is an incredible blessing for those of us limited to English translations! He had an extraordinary life, knew Ramana Maharshi, and apparently, talked Nehru into offering Refuge to the Dalai Lama and his people.
Maybe when you're in France you could stay at the Chateau of Ze Bad Neighbor. I don't know if my French is correct but it's something like that. Charlie Brown stayed there once when he was in France.
" if you stick to one practice and see that through all the way" i can't see either dogen or nisargadatta agreeing with that you are attempting a "fusion" of adviata and zen, i don't think its working and also there's no crossover audience per se religious "practices" are ways of wasting your time
If I remember well, in the intro to the book it said that Frydman was a Polish Jew. We Polish have to underline such things on every occasion 😉 Looking forward to your visit in Europe!
"Habit is stronger than heredity" - There are tons of examples from science that show this isn't true. It might be true in some instances, but in many instances it isn't.
@@HardcoreZen I don't understand why you have a dogmatic view that there are no possible scenarios where heredity truly over powers habit? Like you've just decided that it is impossible, based on what? what your roshi told you?
@@BullyMaguire4ever its like the rat's come out of the sewer, claims will never read me again then just launches straight into a personal attack that misunderstands the poem (in this case) you conceal your identity, claim not to be obsessed with me, totally unable to comprehend what i write, think you are brad warner and its is your vlog the bitter wasting their lives look back poison drips from their fangs striking at anything that shows them up look i'm not responsible for your personal problems or whatever stupidity of involvement in zen you have, man up and take responsibility for your own life whatever you say, you conceal your own identity, you have something to hide, well your current posting behaviour speaks of deep problems, nothing more pathetic than an ineffective bully try reading "the bitter " in a more abstract way, its a comment on life, some will fit the shoe quite well and others not, but everyone will relate to it
Great topic!
I have always found Advaita a perfect clarifying companion for Zen, and vice versa as well.
And have also found various Advaita teachers extolling certain Hindu practices as a path towards the goal of true non-dualistic realization. Somehow it all fits.
Once again, thanks for discussing this. See ya! 🤙
In my experience, Nisargadatta Maharaj is a relative newcomer. I don't remember him from before the late 1990s when I saw ads for his books in Tricycle and other Buddhist publications. I now read that he was active and being published in the 70s.
When I think of Advaita getting introduced to the west, I see Swami Vivekananda in the 1890s, and Paramhansa Yogananda landing with his autobiography in 1952. They both became best sellers in the early 1970s.
Great topic, as usual. The only thing I would respectfully disagree with is the idea of just taking one practice and following it through all the way, to the exclusion of all others.
Having come through the various traditions and practices I have known in my lifetime, (Basic "Americana" Christianity, "Born Again" Christianity, Buddhism in various flavors, most recently Zen, Wicca, and Native American religious philosophy), I feel they have made me a very well rounded person who has knowledge and experience of what others have done in pursuit of Trurh and Wisdom; that which is truly HUMAN.
It's like playing various musical instruments, which I do, or cooking and eating various cuisines, which I also do. "Variety is the Spice of Life!" Right?
Yes, it can make you a "Jack of All Trades" and such, but since we're only only this Earth for a little while anyway, why limit ourselves?? To claim to be a "Master" of anything in one lifetime is simply hubris. (Not that I'm suggesting you've claimed to be any sort of "Master"; you've always struck me as a pretty humble guy.)
Just my personal opinion.
🙏🙏🙏
Anatta - No Self is also at the same time the direct realization of Non Dual Brahman
Thanks Brad! I was struggling with the comparison of Advaita and Zen for a long time. I came from Advaita to being a serious Zen practitioner and the way they use specific terms for different things confused me a lot. Atman here, self there, anatta, conciousnes and so on. But listening to this video eased my mind a lot!
Whatever is "true" and is spoken about will of course be framed in the language/culture of the individual. The "truth" of Zen spoken by a Japanese or the "truth" of Advaita spoken by Nisargadatta must be the same but the flavor of the words must be different. Bankei and Nisargadatta have been my pointers for many years. Great gratitude to them!
great video
love advaita vedanta
love zen
love truth
hate donating
@@osip7315 🐿️🐿️🐿️🐿️
Very Interesting Brad! I had been following you for quite sometime. Nice to hear your perspective on Advaita and Zen. From my perspective, both the traditions are talking about the same thing. The language and approach seem to be a little different.
Less stress on the ethical parts in Traditional Advaita stems from the fact that Advaita assumes a very high ethical standard, excellence in concentration etc ('sadhan chatustaya') from the student to begin with. It was assumed that the student would stay in monk-like fashion, dutifully serve the master and the tradition like in the good old days. Thus, some of the teachers may not even suggest a practice for some of the students. In fact, teachers may appear to be just talking about dry philosophy while not giving anything for the student to hold on to. But there is an internal logic to this approach which may not be apparent right away, very similar to zen. Would highly recommend the lectures from Swami Sarvapriyananda for knowing more about Advaita Vedanta in a traditional setting.
With regards to Hinduism being somewhat a mix of different religions is kind of incorrect. There were different sects (sampradayas) that debated ('shastratha') viciously among each other but by in large all of them considered themselves in the umbrella of 'Sanatan Dharma'. In fact, it has only been less than 50 years that Buddhism has started being considered a different religion (of course there are some caveats there). A lot of the confusion stems from the incorrect usage of the word religion in the Indic context (Dharmic context).
Anyways, I love your work! I had become interested in Zen and Buddhism all because of you :) Do let me know in case you plan to come to India sometime. Would be happy to host you :)
Edit: Grammar and some phrases.
I still struggle with I have no soul thing. Makes me feel like "I am floating on a tin can" David Bowie. Nice lesson.
What are you struggling with? You like the concept of being a soul? You feel like you are a soul?
@@macdougdoug or just a**soul
nice analysis
Nissargadatta promised his guru to hold bhagans and anyway he enjoyed it before encountering Advaita Vedanta, so was predisposed towards that id say. Ramesh said he never really enjoyed it and was allowed to leave when the symbols started crashing and the singing was going on, he only attended talks. But i think that was more because of his sensitivity and tendency for headaches.. Ramesh did 20 years of mantra meditation with his earlier guru who was a very traditional Vedantan, he said he practiced so much the mantra was going on by itself.
Fascinating! Thanks for this. Have fun in Europe!
Thanks for taking on this topic, Brad. I've gone down the Advaita rabbit hole myself over the last several months. What really got me intrigued was, like you mentioned, the similarity between shikantaza and meditation in the Advaita tradition. What stood out, in contrast, was the emphasis on self-inquiry in Advaita. Is there anything in the zen tradition like self-inquiry that you know of?
In Rinzai Zen “Who am I?” (I.e. self inquiry) is a classic koan. Zen koans, in many ways, are like self inquiry, all pointing to that same place.
@@shamerdog "Who is dragging this corpse around?" The practices are very different. In Advaita you ask the question and expect no answer. and you let it go.. In Chan "you" sit with it as you would any Koan for days or weeks or ...
Like the others who have answered, I would say that the koan tradition has a lot of stuff that's analogous to self-inquiry. Kodo Sawaki talked about "the self that selfs the self."
Thanks for the replies all! I hadn’t thought of koans. Makes sense.
Hope all goes well in Europe Brad... Hopefully you'll make it over to the UK again sometime in the future🤞
In some people with Adhd or Autism, Heridity is stronger than habit..... In these the bhakti or mantra practice becomes more necessity
it was forty years ago today!
Actually made sense. This might also apply to bernardo kastrup's philosophy as there seems to be lot of overlap with advaita. thanks
How could there not be common ground between the two? Advaita, Zen Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, Chan all fall under the umbrella of Non Duality. There is only one thing going on.... ;)
@@williamcallahan5218 advaita departs from soto zen in the sense that zazen isn't emphasized much. They both deal with non duality but the approach is different.
Upanishad is basically Advaita Vedanta.
Zazen: the practice to watch your mind in order to see clearly how deluded you really are. (We always create all of our problems as problems do not exist outside of the mind.)
What? No kaiju-style city wrecking throwdown? Oh well, nice talk, as usual. The teachings of Nisargadatta Maharaj are so clear and direct. Perhaps it is because, by his own reckoning, he was basically a simple man. On the other hand, didn't Dogen say that, by his own reckoning, he was prone to using flowery language? In any case, interesting comparison. Enjoy your travels!
Cool! I knew that D.T. Suzuki was interested in Shin Buddhism later in life but I was unaware that Kosho Uchiyama took up nembutsu when he got older.
What is the difference in terms of rebirth?
Not sure whether you were using the Sanskrit word "dhyāna" (of which the Pāḷi form is, unhelpfully in this case, "jhāna") or "jñāna"; "dhyāna" (from the root "dhyā-" "to see") is the term that the mediæval Chinese rendered "chán'nǎ," which was truncated to "chán," which is pronounced "zen" in Japanese. "Jñāna" (Pāḷi "ñāṇa"), on the other hand, means "knowledge," coming from "jñā-" "to know," to which the Greek "γνῶ-" (as in "gnōsis") and English "know" are cognate.
Who will take care of your dog while you're away?
My wife.
Advaita is similar to buddhism, because buddhism has its root in vedanta itself
“Little bit of free will”. Which bit might that be?
I practice both Advaita and Zen 🕉️☯️
Hi Brad! Have you ever read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali? There's a translation from Edwin Bryant that's very scholar and fancy. He also has lots of interviews on UA-cam, maybe you'd find the whole thing interesting. It's like a hyper-systematizatized manual to run away from Samsara, with comments on ethics, superpowers and the good 'ol "Brahman=Atman" plot twist (I'm really making a disservice to the philosophy with this way of expressing myself, sorry).
I'll check that out. I have not read any version of the Yoga Sutras.
@@HardcoreZen I was just thinking about Patanjali when Brad mentioned that Advaita has no emphasis on ethics. Patanjali is not specifically from the Advaita tradition but the 8 limbs being Niyama, Yama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi cover pretty much everything. Even knee pain. Niyama and Yama is about how to treat others and yourself. Asanas are what people nowadays (falsely) call yoga. Yoga is all the 8 combined. Pranayama is about managing the energy flow in your body. I sometimes struggle with Pratyahara but it's the withdrawal of the senses, so probably the whole "shining the light inwards" thing. Dharana is making an effort to "meditate". Dhyana is meditation which can not be done but happens by itself without any doer involved, meaning Zen. And Samadhi would be some Kensho stuff? I'm not sure. Or maybe a long lasting Kensho experience.
Patanjali is always my go-to spiritual practice guide. Even for Zen. I transfer Zen ethics into Niyama and Yama, do Asanas and Pranayama to keep the body/mind healthy, sit Zazen and everything else is not this Waga's business. Patanjali and Zen complement each other so well!
Have you met KRS One?
During I was watching this video, I got surprise. I have heard about Maurice Frydman and I knew he was a Gandhi's friend and perhaps a member of The Theosophical Society, who translated some Hindu texts into Polish, but I didn't know he was connected with Maharishi. Yet both (Polish and English) Wikipedias claim that it's the same person.
Maurice Frydman, was an extraordinary genious. He had several patents and inventions to his name. He in fact had improved upon Gandhi's charkha (spinning wheel), had played a significant role in convincing the then prime minister of India in accepting the Dalai lama into India as a spiritual leader. He has written extraordinary books on Ramana Maharshi's teaching with pseudo name. He himself stayed in a monk-like fashion and did a lot for India.
Check out David Godman's words for him: ua-cam.com/video/0xayU4f5--I/v-deo.html&ab_channel=BuddhaAtTheGasPump
To have a masterpiece like I Am That translated by a realized person (Nisargadatta specifically said that Frydman was a Jnani) is an incredible blessing for those of us limited to English translations! He had an extraordinary life, knew Ramana Maharshi, and apparently, talked Nehru into offering Refuge to the Dalai Lama and his people.
After your French travels, you can write a book "The Advaita of Jacques Clouseau".
Maybe when you're in France you could stay at the Chateau of Ze Bad Neighbor. I don't know if my French is correct but it's something like that. Charlie Brown stayed there once when he was in France.
Sounds lovely!
💓💟
Maurycy Frydman was a Polish Jew, Brad.
" if you stick to one practice and see that through all the way"
i can't see either dogen or nisargadatta agreeing with that
you are attempting a "fusion" of adviata and zen, i don't think its working and also there's no crossover audience per se
religious "practices" are ways of wasting your time
🙈🙉🙊
If I remember well, in the intro to the book it said that Frydman was a Polish Jew. We Polish have to underline such things on every occasion 😉
Looking forward to your visit in Europe!
Oh! That's interesting. I thought he was a native English speaker. Thanks!
one of the few to survive the holocaust, the poles abetted the nazis
Frydman was an extraordinary person- Nisargadatta regarded him a realized person- a Jnani!
"Habit is stronger than heredity" - There are tons of examples from science that show this isn't true. It might be true in some instances, but in many instances it isn't.
Ah... SCIENCE! Well if SCIENCE says it, then it must be TRUE!
@@HardcoreZen Ah...ZEN ROSHIS! Well if a Zen Roshi says it, then it must be TRUE! (The women who got molested by Eido Shimano probably beg to differ)
@@tomcollector9594 Oh dear.... Are we going to bring in Hitler next?
@@HardcoreZen I don't understand why you have a dogmatic view that there are no possible scenarios where heredity truly over powers habit? Like you've just decided that it is impossible, based on what? what your roshi told you?
Ethics: Are you a vegan?
Nothing similar to buddhadharma - just more confusion. At least it's better than new-age claptrap I guess.
No difference. Both Buddhism & Hinduism are under Sanatan Dharma (eternal law or philosophy) all 6 hindu philosophies fall in this
the unenlightened
meander all their lives
in a swamp
thinking it the sea
they neither listen
nor
can
be
told
🐿️🐿️🐿️🐿️🐿️
Andy thinks he is enlightened. 🤡
@@BullyMaguire4ever its like the rat's come out of the sewer, claims will never read me again then just launches straight into a personal attack that misunderstands the poem (in this case)
you conceal your identity, claim not to be obsessed with me, totally unable to comprehend what i write, think you are brad warner and its is your vlog
the bitter
wasting their lives
look back
poison drips
from their fangs
striking
at anything
that shows them up
look i'm not responsible for your personal problems or whatever stupidity of involvement in zen you have, man up and take responsibility for your own life
whatever you say, you conceal your own identity, you have something to hide, well your current posting behaviour speaks of deep problems, nothing more pathetic than an ineffective bully
try reading "the bitter " in a more abstract way, its a comment on life, some will fit the shoe quite well and others not, but everyone will relate to it
@@osip7315 beware the slithering snake,
who believes himself a flying dragon.
had your covid vaccinations yet ?
praise to covid buddha?
ua-cam.com/video/79DijItQXMM/v-deo.html
@@elijahrlopez ua-cam.com/video/RU-LhRmz_QI/v-deo.html
@@osip7315 🙈🙉🙊