An update on this modification. I've done several lengthy enduros including a 700km desert ride in July 2018. A total of about 50 hours with no sign of problems with this DIY manual tensioner
I know this is 2 years old and hopefully your still on here but. Was wondering with that plug does it just “sit” in there? You obviously got some miles on this with that setup. There’s no worries about it falling into the motor? I am guessing the oil pushes on that plug so no reason for it fall in. Any info would be great. Love this set up.
Yep I'm still out here ... fortunately I haven't perished in the desert on my KTM! Yes it just sits in there. If you make it about 17mm long you'll see it can't go further in. The body of the tensioner stops it coming out.
Awesome! Thank you. They wanted to sell me a 200$ manual chain tensioner and thought yaaa pretty sure I could make that. Stumbled on your vid and helped big time! Jealous of your riding season! Still winter in Canada....
The oil pressure will be less as there's an open hole for the oil to rush out of. I was concerned it could cause damage elsewhere in the engine so figured it was best to plug it.
Hi Aaron. The plug needs to be tight enough to stop all or most of the oil flow. Put enough tape on to give a snug fit when you push it into the hole. It can't go anywhere as there's no way it can escape.
Hey mate - Can see here you never went on about TDC etc. In this kind of simple mod; is TDC required to put this on - or can you perform the mod simply with any position? (I understand TDC is generally best to try and achieve - but not required in this case?)
Hi Hayden. I didn't mention TDC as it's irrelevant for this modification. If you watch my video on valve clearances you'll see setting the TDC is required for that procedure. You can remove and replace the chain tensioner with the crankshaft in any position. Regards, Scott
Hey Scott, thanks for sharing! I see upon reinstalling your manual tensioner you never reinstalled the big O ring that was originally on the hydraulic tensioner. Is this correct that it is not used again?
Thanks. Yes it's a manual adjuster now so you have to check periodically. I've just completed a 1700km enduro through the Australian desert and the adjuster is working like a charm.
Scott Elliott is that in w.a? I tried 4 fastener shops in sydney but they all said i got buckleys of finding one in australia! Found some on ebay but none 70mm long.very hard bolt to find
I think the guys in Sydney are being a bit lazy! Ring these guys. I'm sure they'd tell where you can get one in Sydney. I walked in and had a couple of bolts and nylocs in 3 minutes. multifixwa.com.au/ Scott
Spot on Mate! Amazing Job!!!! I used to have a 1984 KTM 495 Only 4 gears but Amazingly CraZY fast!! That bike hurt everyone including me. It was like an untamed Bull! Also very heavy. Seeing this makes want to get another one. My buddy has a new one which is dual purpose and 4 cycle and incredible light compared to the 2 cycle 495 of the day. But still be careful. The nickname of the 495 was, KTM= Kill The Man. Cheers, great work as always.
The problem with this is that while it saves you $ short-term, it is not a good long-term solution. There's a reason these bikes have hydraulic tensioners installed: because the factory engineers determined there needs to be some "give" in the chain tension on EACH rotation - the tension has to be "fluid" or adjust slightly as the chain rotates and goes through the tension/slack cycle. Yes, you can get the manual tensioner to "work" but it puts excessing stress on the chain on each rotation. If you leave the manual tensioner loose enough to avoid this stress, it's too loose in the slack spots and if you tighten it so it's quiet all the time, it's too tight during the high tension part of the cycle. Think about it: if KTM could get away with a cheap, manual tensioner, why wouldn't they? Just because it's worked "so far" doesn't mean it's correct or the chain will last as long as with the hydraulic one or will not cause other issues (if you ever break a timing chain (more likely if it's over-stressed), it's game over to the tune of many thousands of dollars). Why do this? Why not spend the $50 every few (5-7?) years for a replacement OEM tensioner. Most riders ride 10-50 hours a year and these tensioners last many hundreds.
A manual tensioner has it's pros and cons. People who install them are usually more detailed with their maintenance and more mechanically aware so they tend to adjust the manual tensioner frequently and correctly. If I sold the bike I'd probably reinstall the hydraulic item. One reason the factories fit hydraulic tensioners is they know most people wouldn't have the technical skill or discipline to periodically adjust a manual item. Stick with what you feel comfortable with. I see Dirt Tricks makes a hydraulic tensioner with an 11 point ratchet system that only gives one way movement. It's like an automatically adjustable manual tensioner. motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-product-test-dirt-tricks-ktm-cam-chain-tensioner/
@@ScottElliott152 Well, that's on take on it but you do not not address the differing chain tension requirements on the bigger bikes. You can watch this ua-cam.com/video/0u0lE4hM1ok/v-deo.html for more (make sure closed-captions are on and you are patient). There are two issues: one is insufficient tensioner damping causing abnormal chain and slider wear. The other is that with the taller engines, vertical heat expansion requires the chain be correctly adjusted when the engine is essentially at its peak operating temp (i.e, the crankshaft center is furthest from the camshaft center). If you adjust a manual tensioner cold, the chain will be too tight when the engine heats up. If you adjust the chain hot, it will be too loose when cold. In short, there is no correct adjustment with a manual (or even old-style spring/rachet ) tensioner. Talking about "comfort" level is a mis-direct not addressing stated technical arguments. The DirtTricks tensioner should not be used because of the very reasons I state (it's a spring/rachet system so it locks too tightly) (I had a DT tensioner self-destruct in a 701). I specifically called the DT people and they had zero engineering response to the issues mentioned above - they just said "well, we sell a lot of them so they must be good." What? Just because someone sells something does not mean it meets the engineering requirements - it just means someone will pay for it. So, yes, you can run anything you want if you are comfortable with it. I think it's misleading to state that tossing a $5 bolt in your bike solves all your tensioner problems while also potentially causing bigger issues. To your point of owners being lazy or negligent on KTM maintenance, I disagree - KTM has very short service intervals that all owners I've met stress over and if it were just a matter of undoing a tensioner locknut and adjusting the tensioner bolt, they would certainly install manual tensioners or make it an option (which KTM does not).
Please explain the technical reasons for the statement. I say it doesn't reduce the oil pressure to the head. I've done thousands of kilometres of remote enduros since this modification and had no problems.
An update on this modification. I've done several lengthy enduros including a 700km desert ride in July 2018. A total of about 50 hours with no sign of problems with this DIY manual tensioner
I know this is 2 years old and hopefully your still on here but. Was wondering with that plug does it just “sit” in there? You obviously got some miles on this with that setup. There’s no worries about it falling into the motor? I am guessing the oil pushes on that plug so no reason for it fall in. Any info would be great. Love this set up.
Yep I'm still out here ... fortunately I haven't perished in the desert on my KTM!
Yes it just sits in there. If you make it about 17mm long you'll see it can't go further in. The body of the tensioner stops it coming out.
Awesome! Thank you. They wanted to sell me a 200$ manual chain tensioner and thought yaaa pretty sure I could make that. Stumbled on your vid and helped big time! Jealous of your riding season! Still winter in Canada....
@@yamabroz5271 when you made the little plug for the oil hole, did it fit loose, snug, or tight in the hole after wrapping it with pipe thread tape?
hello, very good video. One question, and if you don't install the bolt in the oil hole, what happens? Thanks for the video and best regards.
The oil pressure will be less as there's an open hole for the oil to rush out of. I was concerned it could cause damage elsewhere in the engine so figured it was best to plug it.
I would have liked to hear the 'rattle', good vid, by the way do you sell this system??
No don't sell it. It's easy to make which is the reason for the video. It's still working very well. Scott.
Should the small alloy plug fit loose, snug, or very tight in the oil hole after being wrapped with thread seal tape? Thanks.
Hi Aaron. The plug needs to be tight enough to stop all or most of the oil flow. Put enough tape on to give a snug fit when you push it into the hole. It can't go anywhere as there's no way it can escape.
Hey mate - Can see here you never went on about TDC etc.
In this kind of simple mod; is TDC required to put this on - or can you perform the mod simply with any position?
(I understand TDC is generally best to try and achieve - but not required in this case?)
Hi Hayden. I didn't mention TDC as it's irrelevant for this modification. If you watch my video on valve clearances you'll see setting the TDC is required for that procedure.
You can remove and replace the chain tensioner with the crankshaft in any position. Regards, Scott
The timing chain is already connected to the cam and crank gears and will not shift as long as the rotating assembly is stationary
Hey Scott, thanks for sharing! I see upon reinstalling your manual tensioner you never reinstalled the big O ring that was originally on the hydraulic tensioner. Is this correct that it is not used again?
Thanks Greg. That O ring is not required once you remove the hydraulic tensioner.
Quick question do you just re-tighten the adjustment if the rattle comes back? Great video too 👌
Thanks. Yes it's a manual adjuster now so you have to check periodically. I've just completed a 1700km enduro through the Australian desert and the adjuster is working like a charm.
Where did you find the m10 1.0mm bolts? I just went to bunnings and they dont have that size
qwerty123627 you need to go to a specialised fastener shop. Bunnings won't have them. I got mine from Multi Fix Fasteners. Scott
Scott Elliott is that in w.a? I tried 4 fastener shops in sydney but they all said i got buckleys of finding one in australia! Found some on ebay but none 70mm long.very hard bolt to find
I think the guys in Sydney are being a bit lazy! Ring these guys. I'm sure they'd tell where you can get one in Sydney. I walked in and had a couple of bolts and nylocs in 3 minutes. multifixwa.com.au/
Scott
Spot on Mate! Amazing Job!!!! I used to have a 1984 KTM 495 Only 4 gears but Amazingly CraZY fast!! That bike hurt everyone including me. It was like an untamed Bull! Also very heavy. Seeing this makes want to get another one. My buddy has a new one which is dual purpose and 4 cycle and incredible light compared to the 2 cycle 495 of the day. But still be careful. The nickname of the 495 was, KTM= Kill The Man. Cheers, great work as always.
Thanks Tom ... LOL ... Kill The Man! My 530EXC feels like that sometimes. A 495cc two stroke would have been a beast... not my cup of tea. Scott
KTM Kill the man or his wallet
The problem with this is that while it saves you $ short-term, it is not a good long-term solution. There's a reason these bikes have hydraulic tensioners installed: because the factory engineers determined there needs to be some "give" in the chain tension on EACH rotation - the tension has to be "fluid" or adjust slightly as the chain rotates and goes through the tension/slack cycle. Yes, you can get the manual tensioner to "work" but it puts excessing stress on the chain on each rotation. If you leave the manual tensioner loose enough to avoid this stress, it's too loose in the slack spots and if you tighten it so it's quiet all the time, it's too tight during the high tension part of the cycle. Think about it: if KTM could get away with a cheap, manual tensioner, why wouldn't they? Just because it's worked "so far" doesn't mean it's correct or the chain will last as long as with the hydraulic one or will not cause other issues (if you ever break a timing chain (more likely if it's over-stressed), it's game over to the tune of many thousands of dollars). Why do this? Why not spend the $50 every few (5-7?) years for a replacement OEM tensioner. Most riders ride 10-50 hours a year and these tensioners last many hundreds.
A manual tensioner has it's pros and cons. People who install them are usually more detailed with their maintenance and more mechanically aware so they tend to adjust the manual tensioner frequently and correctly. If I sold the bike I'd probably reinstall the hydraulic item.
One reason the factories fit hydraulic tensioners is they know most people wouldn't have the technical skill or discipline to periodically adjust a manual item.
Stick with what you feel comfortable with. I see Dirt Tricks makes a hydraulic tensioner with an 11 point ratchet system that only gives one way movement. It's like an automatically adjustable manual tensioner.
motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-product-test-dirt-tricks-ktm-cam-chain-tensioner/
@@ScottElliott152 Well, that's on take on it but you do not not address the differing chain tension requirements on the bigger bikes. You can watch this ua-cam.com/video/0u0lE4hM1ok/v-deo.html for more (make sure closed-captions are on and you are patient). There are two issues: one is insufficient tensioner damping causing abnormal chain and slider wear. The other is that with the taller engines, vertical heat expansion requires the chain be correctly adjusted when the engine is essentially at its peak operating temp (i.e, the crankshaft center is furthest from the camshaft center). If you adjust a manual tensioner cold, the chain will be too tight when the engine heats up. If you adjust the chain hot, it will be too loose when cold. In short, there is no correct adjustment with a manual (or even old-style spring/rachet ) tensioner.
Talking about "comfort" level is a mis-direct not addressing stated technical arguments. The DirtTricks tensioner should not be used because of the very reasons I state (it's a spring/rachet system so it locks too tightly) (I had a DT tensioner self-destruct in a 701). I specifically called the DT people and they had zero engineering response to the issues mentioned above - they just said "well, we sell a lot of them so they must be good." What? Just because someone sells something does not mean it meets the engineering requirements - it just means someone will pay for it.
So, yes, you can run anything you want if you are comfortable with it. I think it's misleading to state that tossing a $5 bolt in your bike solves all your tensioner problems while also potentially causing bigger issues. To your point of owners being lazy or negligent on KTM maintenance, I disagree - KTM has very short service intervals that all owners I've met stress over and if it were just a matter of undoing a tensioner locknut and adjusting the tensioner bolt, they would certainly install manual tensioners or make it an option (which KTM does not).
@@scotttaggart The video was informative and the guy sure knows his chain tensioners.
1290r use same tensioner?
I don't know. I'm sure a bit of online searching will find the answer. Scott
Scott Elliot, does the nyloc retain it’s integrity? I mean did the plastic on the nut hold up because of the heat on the motor?
Yes. I've just done a 6 day desert ride and had no problem.
Thanks. You just saved me over £100
I just did this to my 530, when you screw the new bolt by hand is it until you feel resistant or tighten by hand until you can't do it any further?
Very helpful Scott.
Cheers
Well Done dude!
Cool.
$5.00 but you have to have a lathe haha
Nope. A drill and a bench grinder. Get some skills.
Access to a lathe is preferable but it's possible to improvise with a drill. Regards, Scott
Wtf is this my tensioner looks nothing like this
Destroy the engine low oil presure to the head
Please explain the technical reasons for the statement. I say it doesn't reduce the oil pressure to the head. I've done thousands of kilometres of remote enduros since this modification and had no problems.