I can so relate to this! I was born in the late 1950's and my experience growing up was very similar to Michael's. One big difference though is that I did not start the "coming out" process until I was 42. As Michael stated...one of my biggest fears was being rejected or disowned by my parents and siblings because I loved my family. Unfortunately I sacrificed many years of my youth just to keep from upsetting the family.
Healing from shame really requires A LOT of inner work; dealing with criticism and perfection, removing the masks we've been wearing, unlearning and relearning etc. This was a really touching episode. May we all heal from shame❤
I relate to all this. Worst of all is that my perfectionism causes me to criticize myself for feeling shameful. I an ashamed of being ashamed. But yeah love the video, very relatable
The first 20 yrs of my life in 5 minutes. Your youth mirrors mine almost exactly. I remember getting those looks of disapproval and disgust all the time. I still carry a lot of shame from that time in my life. To this day Im not comfortable around people I don't know well. It may be triggering but discussions like this brings light to this topic and healing. Thank you. 10:52
My shame story began as being a second generation immigrant with my earliest memories in a predominately white middle class neighborhood. While we were also white, we were noticeably culturally different, my parents had thick accents and poor English, could interface with society less smoothly than all of my peers and their families. There was an air that we were faking it, and my parents overcompensated by trying to be extremely sociable, throwing parties, while hiding the dysfunction and trauma from their past lives running from Soviet occupied Poland. When our economic situation declined, none of these people had our backs. It was as if the shame story became true. Finding out I was gay was difficult for me primarily due to my perceptions of my home culture. We were not acceptable and are still not accepted by the government and religion to this day. Most of us from my parents generation were killed off or displaced in WWII. I hid it as best I could and my world crumbled each time I had a friend snoop through my internet history or question why I never talked about dating or sex. My parents also never talked about these things. And I learned to surround myself with people who wouldn’t rock my boat. When I came out I was surprised by the apathy, it was okay, but the undertone was “I’d rather you never talk about your sex life or relationships”. And so I never did until now when I am engaged and I can’t really avoid it anymore. They surprised me by asking me to send their love to him… but they never really asked to speak to him very much. I know most of that isn’t my stuff now and so I can be more at peace with it. I’ve been different from my peers most of my childhood and young adult life and not all of it can be attributed to queerness. Dimming my light came from assimilation and not wanting to face the truth of my past and my family’s past. Blending in was safe. My acceptance of my gayness was a relatively short lived self hatred than what I hear from other gay men my age, at least just the gay piece in isolation. But I still have toxic shame and comparison with others, especially those with the “traditional American, loving” family. Sometimes I have to tell myself that that can be keeping up appearances, and sometimes it is genuine. I can’t really know the difference and so I just have to accept things as they are and not compare, as that’s just a path to more pain. I have to give the unconditional love and appreciation for myself and my body that my parents could never give.
Thank you so much for this. I have spent the last several years unpacking the toxic relationship I've had with my sexuality and how I view myself. The work is hard, and every time i make a breakthrough i find a new layer. But i never want anyone to experience the shame I've felt just being me. It's been worth it to keep going, and this podcast was an encouragement. Thank you for sharing this and being vulnerable.
As a man that has felt shame for having an attraction to other men while being told this was wrong, I have carried this with me for almost my entire life and has created things like depression, OCD, repression, anxiety to name a few. I always thought happiness wasn't for me and felt like I needed to change my attraction from homosexual to hetero to be normal. Now that I see things in perspective I can see all the damage that I've done to myself and how shame can be a source of mental destruction and with this all the things that encompasses emotionally and socially. I thank you for all the insight on the topic that I more than identify with (the reference to the Sears catalog and the men's underwear section was right on point with what I went through) and the need to be all these other things to compensate for being gay resonated so much as well. Again, you guys are doing an extremely awesome job for all of us who feel alone in this and who are carrying a heavy burden on our backs. Much love to you both!!!!
I was sensitive as a preteen. The other boys were rough and thoughtlessly killing animals. I became a loner and a powerful swimmer. I was attracted to males but didn't know what that meant. At 19 falling in love with a married man woke me up. I realized God made me gay but felt cheated. Wasting years in a homophobic cult sowed a lot of self hatred and sorrow into me. After leaving that I still had deep rooted shame that took years to identify and get rid of. Believing God loves me gradually healed me inside and out. Shame may still pop up in different guises, but, I reject it vehemently and quickly.
Well done man, you have done well, I too know how the old religion hurts and deep, there is a way out as you have found and healing for every wound...namaste
I love all of your podcasts, but this one is probably the one that has touched me the most deeply. I see myself as dealing with feelings of inferiority, inadequacy, self-loathing, etc., but I never associated all of this back to shame. I pretty much thought that shame was the very least of my problems. Thank you for this important insight. ALSO: I may be wrong, but I think you have a birthday within the next week, Michael, so Buon compleanno!
Richard, yes May 27th. How did you know that?! Btw, you should check out the Gay Men Going Deeper Course- Healing Your Shame. It's super reasonable price point and will get you started on the healing journey. gaymensbrotherhood.thinkific.com/pages/healing-your-shame
This resonates deeply. The intense programming against our development and continued micro aggressions from friends family and associates. It’s difficult especially when there’s no representation of self in the world. It’s really insidious.
Excellent discussion. As a 59 yr old from suburban UK I grew up without any positive role models at all. My parents had no religion, but a pervasive atmosphere of shame attached itself to many aspects of culture in relation to sex. Respectability was everything. Unmarried mothers, divorce, anything that strayed from rigid norms was infused with shame. You are doing such valuable work unpicking the remnants of that culture and trying to create a more loving and hopeful society.
Self-compassion heals shame IIMO. Sometimes vulnerability is too triggering and we may not have the wisdom during the healing process to share it with the right person or the right set and setting.
You guys should write a book. This podcast was so informative and resonated so much with me. The insights you have gained from working with gay men are so helpful and are eloquently put across in your podcasts. Sending love from UK x
Thank you from a listener in London, UK. I have gotten a lot from your other videos but this one really hit the nail on the head for me- a very good dissection of shame and its relation to anger and connection that made a lot of sense to me. Also loved the description of the six masks at the end. Thank you for putting in the detailed thought and work to translate the ideas of people like Brene Brown into the specifics of many western gay communities- it's really helpful. Definitely considering doing one of your courses or doing a group now.
Thanks a lot for your feedback! I'm glad you found the video helpful. If you're interested, you're welcome to join our Facebook group anytime. facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood if you’re not a Facebook user, you can just get on our mailing list and we’ll send you new podcast episodes every Thursday as well as direct links to our Zoom Hangouts, and Connection Circles. www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/services/
I know where part of my shame comes from, its from not being loved by my sperm donor of a father, unloved by my mother and actively hated by my stepfather. I know in my core that im unloved and unwanted. Ive been in therapy for 12 years and still to this day cant love myself bc if my my own family couldnt love me then how is the world or even myself going to love me.
Every time I think I'm the only person that ever experienced this (fill in the blank for this). Someone describes exactly what I'm going though or gone though. I relate to Mr. Dilorio story to the letter. Thank both of you for sharing this.
Such a powerful episode! I can resonate with so many things what has said. Had Very important information for our community. And my compliments for you 2 guys being so open and vulnerable about your own stuff. Thanks for this ❤
I came of age in the latter half of the 1970s, a time far different from today. I lived at home with my parents since I attended and graduated from a local university. I first started experimenting in about 1975, at age 19, and fell in love the following year. All while leading a double life. That relationship eventually ended, and I went back in the closet until the early 1980s, when I met someone 17 years my senior, and we basically had a platonic relationship. In the mid-1980s, I fell in love again, with a different guy. By this time, I was living on my own, which facilitated living the personal life I craved. However, this person was already in a relationship, with another guy, and they eventually moved to San Francisco in 1990. I have had mostly crushes since then. I eventually came out to my parents in an email on Coming Out Day in 1999, and they basically accepted me. I was still on a natural high during this time, having just attended a spiritual gay men’s group retreat in the NC mountains. Since then, I’ve basically arrived at a point in my life where I really don’t care what other people think, and would tell anyone who asked me about my sexuality.
I'm half Asian. I felt isolated being gay, can't talk to someone about how I feel. Keeping this secret inside for years wondering how will things develop. I came out when I was 20. I was seeing a girl but we didn't have sex, eventually coming out. I thought the gay community will be open to me but it wasn't that way.
It sounds like you’ve been through a lot. Coming out can be a huge step, and it’s understandable to feel isolated if you don’t have people to talk to. Our Facebook group is full of supportive members who would love to hear your story and offer a listening ear. Don’t hesitate to join and connect with others who understand what you’re going through.💞 Here's the link for the Facebook group: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood You may also visit our website, we have available courses that might help you: www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/
Thanks for the book recommendation (The Velvet Rage / Alan Downs / 2005) . As a man previously married to a woman... I also recommend Alexis by Marguerite Yourcenar. It's a fictional story of a man who leaves his wive and child behind...the whole book is a long letter explaining his reasons...and most importantly...how shame played a major part in his actions. I think the book is interesting because it makes you travel to other historical/cultural contexts...yet it touches on a familiar topic for us gay men
Coping mechanisms for dealing with guilt & shame.. varies but once you start loving your true self - flaws & all, (nobody is perfect thank goodness), it is a step in the right direction. Just take another step, it gets easier down the road travelled ...as you learn more about yourself ...
Great podcast! There are fault lines among gay men that can be painful but need to be understood. I got into a debate, e.g., on another platform regarding my preference for masc-to-masc relationships. One guy responded by commenting that such relationships are ALWAYS toxic. He finally backed down when I told him that when I was younger I had a few somewhat androgynous boyfriends who understandably felt very hurt and letdown when I moved on. --I felt bad about this but knew t I had to be true to who I was and respect my strong, underlying sexual preference for a convincingly masculine partner. But I have never questioned the underlying unconditional deservability of people regardless of gender, race, etc.,
Hey guys, Jimmy here! I've only recently discovered your channel but man, I believe this is exactly the kind of insight and education our community as a whole really really needs. You are doing amazing work😇 My journey has also been full of shame, masking and insecurity, feeling of both hopelessness and worthlessness etc I came out relatively young at 15, I am currently 32, and have also come to understand that I, like Matt, am also demisexual. I have always valued meaningful connections, and would consider myself a highly sensitive person, not just emotionally. I've done a lot of inner child and shadow work over the past few years and this journey of healing and acceptance we are all on is one that is constant y'know? I want us all to have deep and meaningful connections with ourselves and others so I'm all in on this with you guys!❤
Kind of explains why “You better be an A-lister or you’re sh*t” is such a common belief in the gay community. Even if many don’t embrace it particularly, it’s pretty hard not to feel “less than” if you did not achieve that status. Of course it’s a human thing generally too, but it’s got a feel all it’s own there.
Thank you Fellows, articulate, nuanced👌I always feel a friendly sad envy for anyone who escaped being scapegoated. Quite humiliating. I was ashamed for liking girls, even. (Velvet Rage👌) Observations re perfectionism👌 The 3 modes, HAC, Hiding, Avoiding, Compensating, fully applicable. I had to quit drinking, 24 yrs, still miss it. I don't mind hearing about it, to those who can handle it, More power to ya. Your suggestions re healing shame 👍I would add patience, so darn slow process. Matt, do you know the Annie Lennox lyric "...And when i think that i'm alone, it seems there's more of us at home. There must be an angel..."
What are you suggesting we do as young gay boys? You're talking about why we get the shame but how do we not feel it? How do we avoid it? Because the shame in my mind of younger guys isn't getting better. They're just more rebellious, more angry an acting out more.
It's tough to shake off societal pressures, but remember, you're valid and deserving of love and respect. Let's focus on building a supportive community and challenging harmful stereotypes together.
@@GayMenGoingDeeper Gayborhoods across the US are disappearing from bigger cities because of the move to online. In my city we used to have 3 gay bars at any given time all of them gone in 2008. We've never even had a gayboorhood nor has most of the US. Most of us live in small communities that aren't interested in supporting gay men.
I tbink for me it has been...i may be gay but im not one of those annoying gays..which basically has led me being a very repressed quiet adult...i started doing drag last yr as a form of therapy but yeh thats probably a trait ive carried thru and it really makes interacting with others difficult as im not sure who i am any more
It’s curious how I felt the same way Matt felt when we were listening to Michael’s first comment. I have mentioned before that I have had similar experiences in my childhood as you both, so I completely understand this feeling of shame. And even though I think I have done the work and it almost doesn’t hurt anymore, of course I still feel shame occasionally. For instance, passing by a group of strange straight men on the street can be intimidating, and as much as I live in a progressive city, there is always the possibility of being discriminated because you don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to know that I’m gay. But now my family supports me and loves my husband, and we have a very big number of friends in our lives to be completely happy. So in the end, I guess most days I’m just like “if you you don’t like me, turn the fuck around, cuz I ain’t goin’ nowhere!”, but it did take years to get here. Happy pride month!
Absolutely, this video carries significant importance for the 🏳🌈 community. It's crucial to have content that resonates with diverse experiences and promotes understanding and acceptance. Thanks for highlighting its importance!🙏💞
Interesting, if no surprise, that you two who are young enough to be my sons, even my grandsons, should have gone through almost exactly the same kind of repressed puberty/teen years that I did decades before you. Glancing through the comments, it’s a depressingly consistent paradigm. Oddly, I came out before you both meaning in my second year of college. Though I was never a party boy or promiscuous or a chronic drug user. My shame issues have far less to do with my sexuality than a passive aggressive family who raised me as “the poor damaged runt of the litter.”
Thank you for sharing your experience 🙏It's striking how shared experiences of shame can transcend generations. Your story underscores the profound influence of family dynamics on our self-image and journey towards healing.💝
I dont think im ever going to get to a point where i can interact peacefully with other gay men. Im always attacked and honesidont know why am im fucking tired and am starting to noseeppl as flesh vessels bc they dont treat each other like they should.
We're really sorry to hear that you're feeling this way. It's tough when you don't feel accepted or understood. Remember, not all interactions will be negative, and there are supportive communities out there. It might help to seek out safe spaces where kindness and respect are the norm. Sending hugs!💞 You may check our website: www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/
Do not resonate with your topic for this podcast, I did not feel shame in my young life, I just did not understand why I had the feelings I did for a young man at the age 4/5 years old, later it was one 15 year old Prefect at school I had a crush on. Religion was my burden as my family were very zealous and extreme, homosexuality was NEVER spoken of, I thought my feeling may change as I grew older, girls would chase me but I had no feeling for them? I was still celibate at 27 years of age and happy in myself but yet a feeling of isolation as all my str8 friends got married and I was left as a spare part that did not fit in? My journey in the gay World, in my 28 Th year, I hated it, the scene was alien, disjointed and vulgar to my feeling, I was not street wise and timid, a very sheltered background and no 'real' life experience at this point, so I was very vulnerable, just meat for the gay market? I still looked 18 or 19 then so often asked for ID even at 28, I was embarrassed. If only I had been born now and not in the dark times of the 50's, the young guys now by comparison have it easy in my experience, you may disagree with me but it is an honest reflection and many in my generation agree. I have no shame, I am who I am...period!!
Thank you for sharing your journey so openly. It sounds like you've been through a lot, navigating your identity in a time when the world wasn’t as open or accepting as it is today. We can understand why the scene felt alien to you, especially with such a sheltered background and the weight of religion. Your experience is real, and we appreciate your honesty-everyone’s path is different, and it’s powerful to hear how you’ve come to embrace yourself with no shame. That’s something to be proud of!🙌
One of my coping mechanisms was and still is, I became a people pleaser. Everyone liked me because I was so easy to get along with. All the while keeping that terrifying secret of who I truly was, am. At the age of 68 I am still grappling with people pleasing behavior.
"Something about me being different, it made me feel like there was something wrong with me."
Oh dear, I can definitely relate to that😢
I can so relate to this! I was born in the late 1950's and my experience growing up was very
similar to Michael's. One big difference though is that I did not start the "coming out" process until I was 42. As Michael stated...one of my biggest fears was being rejected or disowned by my parents and siblings because I loved my family. Unfortunately I sacrificed many years of my youth just to keep from upsetting the family.
Thank you for sharing that!😍
Healing from shame really requires A LOT of inner work; dealing with criticism and perfection, removing the masks we've been wearing, unlearning and relearning etc. This was a really touching episode. May we all heal from shame❤
Amen 🙏
I relate to all this. Worst of all is that my perfectionism causes me to criticize myself for feeling shameful. I an ashamed of being ashamed. But yeah love the video, very relatable
Yes, thanks for sharing that. Shame is a natural human feeling- there's nothing to be ashamed of; we all have to deal with it one way or another.
The first 20 yrs of my life in 5 minutes. Your youth mirrors mine almost exactly. I remember getting those looks of disapproval and disgust all the time. I still carry a lot of shame from that time in my life. To this day Im not comfortable around people I don't know well. It may be triggering but discussions like this brings light to this topic and healing. Thank you. 10:52
Michael here. Yes, I think many of us have similar experiences - even if the details are a little different.
My shame story began as being a second generation immigrant with my earliest memories in a predominately white middle class neighborhood. While we were also white, we were noticeably culturally different, my parents had thick accents and poor English, could interface with society less smoothly than all of my peers and their families. There was an air that we were faking it, and my parents overcompensated by trying to be extremely sociable, throwing parties, while hiding the dysfunction and trauma from their past lives running from Soviet occupied Poland. When our economic situation declined, none of these people had our backs. It was as if the shame story became true.
Finding out I was gay was difficult for me primarily due to my perceptions of my home culture. We were not acceptable and are still not accepted by the government and religion to this day. Most of us from my parents generation were killed off or displaced in WWII. I hid it as best I could and my world crumbled each time I had a friend snoop through my internet history or question why I never talked about dating or sex. My parents also never talked about these things. And I learned to surround myself with people who wouldn’t rock my boat. When I came out I was surprised by the apathy, it was okay, but the undertone was “I’d rather you never talk about your sex life or relationships”. And so I never did until now when I am engaged and I can’t really avoid it anymore. They surprised me by asking me to send their love to him… but they never really asked to speak to him very much. I know most of that isn’t my stuff now and so I can be more at peace with it.
I’ve been different from my peers most of my childhood and young adult life and not all of it can be attributed to queerness. Dimming my light came from assimilation and not wanting to face the truth of my past and my family’s past. Blending in was safe. My acceptance of my gayness was a relatively short lived self hatred than what I hear from other gay men my age, at least just the gay piece in isolation. But I still have toxic shame and comparison with others, especially those with the “traditional American, loving” family. Sometimes I have to tell myself that that can be keeping up appearances, and sometimes it is genuine. I can’t really know the difference and so I just have to accept things as they are and not compare, as that’s just a path to more pain. I have to give the unconditional love and appreciation for myself and my body that my parents could never give.
Thank you so much for this. I have spent the last several years unpacking the toxic relationship I've had with my sexuality and how I view myself. The work is hard, and every time i make a breakthrough i find a new layer. But i never want anyone to experience the shame I've felt just being me. It's been worth it to keep going, and this podcast was an encouragement. Thank you for sharing this and being vulnerable.
Glad the podcast could be encouraging! Your journey matters. Keep going, and thanks for sharing! 🌈👍
As a man that has felt shame for having an attraction to other men while being told this was wrong, I have carried this with me for almost my entire life and has created things like depression, OCD, repression, anxiety to name a few. I always thought happiness wasn't for me and felt like I needed to change my attraction from homosexual to hetero to be normal. Now that I see things in perspective I can see all the damage that I've done to myself and how shame can be a source of mental destruction and with this all the things that encompasses emotionally and socially. I thank you for all the insight on the topic that I more than identify with (the reference to the Sears catalog and the men's underwear section was right on point with what I went through) and the need to be all these other things to compensate for being gay resonated so much as well. Again, you guys are doing an extremely awesome job for all of us who feel alone in this and who are carrying a heavy burden on our backs. Much love to you both!!!!
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Sending love right back ❤️
I was sensitive as a preteen. The other boys were rough and thoughtlessly killing animals. I became a loner and a powerful swimmer. I was attracted to males but didn't know what that meant. At 19 falling in love with a married man woke me up. I realized God made me gay but felt cheated. Wasting years in a homophobic cult sowed a lot of self hatred and sorrow into me. After leaving that I still had deep rooted shame that took years to identify and get rid of. Believing God loves me gradually healed me inside and out. Shame may still pop up in different guises, but, I reject it vehemently and quickly.
Sounds like you have developed a healthy shame resilience💟
Well done man, you have done well, I too know how the old religion hurts and deep, there is a way out as you have found and healing for every wound...namaste
I love all of your podcasts, but this one is probably the one that has touched me the most deeply. I see myself as dealing with feelings of inferiority, inadequacy, self-loathing, etc., but I never associated all of this back to shame. I pretty much thought that shame was the very least of my problems. Thank you for this important insight. ALSO: I may be wrong, but I think you have a birthday within the next week, Michael, so Buon compleanno!
Richard, yes May 27th. How did you know that?! Btw, you should check out the Gay Men Going Deeper Course- Healing Your Shame. It's super reasonable price point and will get you started on the healing journey. gaymensbrotherhood.thinkific.com/pages/healing-your-shame
This resonates deeply. The intense programming against our development and continued micro aggressions from friends family and associates. It’s difficult especially when there’s no representation of self in the world. It’s really insidious.
So good hearing your story Michael - it got me emotional too
Thank you. I hope that sharing it will help people see that many of our stories are actually kinda similar, but with different details here and there.
Excellent discussion. As a 59 yr old from suburban UK I grew up without any positive role models at all. My parents had no religion, but a pervasive atmosphere of shame attached itself to many aspects of culture in relation to sex. Respectability was everything. Unmarried mothers, divorce, anything that strayed from rigid norms was infused with shame. You are doing such valuable work unpicking the remnants of that culture and trying to create a more loving and hopeful society.
Self-compassion heals shame IIMO. Sometimes vulnerability is too triggering and we may not have the wisdom during the healing process to share it with the right person or the right set and setting.
Thanks for uploading these.....these videos will undoubtedly help scores of young men growing up gay
Thank for sharing your human hats both of you … I appreciate it and your videos are healing me more than you know … respect and warm thanks ❤
You guys should write a book. This podcast was so informative and resonated so much with me. The insights you have gained from working with gay men are so helpful and are eloquently put across in your podcasts. Sending love from UK x
Thanks Neil. Maybe one day we will write a book 📕🤓
Thank you from a listener in London, UK. I have gotten a lot from your other videos but this one really hit the nail on the head for me- a very good dissection of shame and its relation to anger and connection that made a lot of sense to me. Also loved the description of the six masks at the end. Thank you for putting in the detailed thought and work to translate the ideas of people like Brene Brown into the specifics of many western gay communities- it's really helpful. Definitely considering doing one of your courses or doing a group now.
Thanks a lot for your feedback! I'm glad you found the video helpful. If you're interested, you're welcome to join our Facebook group anytime. facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood if you’re not a Facebook user, you can just get on our mailing list and we’ll send you new podcast episodes every Thursday as well as direct links to our Zoom Hangouts, and Connection Circles. www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/services/
I know where part of my shame comes from, its from not being loved by my sperm donor of a father, unloved by my mother and actively hated by my stepfather. I know in my core that im unloved and unwanted. Ive been in therapy for 12 years and still to this day cant love myself bc if my my own family couldnt love me then how is the world or even myself going to love me.
The healing journey isn't easy but I know you have what it takes to keep pushing through 💪
Vulnerability is the opposite of shame. Something to think about.
Absolutely, and talking about shame itself can be quite vulnerable, and therefore healing.
"Vulnerability is the opposite of shame !"
These words are very helpfull and touching for me !
A new insight.
Thanks !
Greetings from Germany !
Every time I think I'm the only person that ever experienced this (fill in the blank for this). Someone describes exactly what I'm going though or gone though. I relate to Mr. Dilorio story to the letter. Thank both of you for sharing this.
This is the first comment I’m leaving on y’all’s channel. Thank you for all the work you do. ❤from Texas, USA
Thank you so much for reaching out. Sending love right back to Texas! ❤🤠
How to heal? Evolve, be competent and useful. Get better today than you were yesterday. Recognition and self respect heal.
Excellent job boys!
Thank you so much!🥰
Such a powerful episode! I can resonate with so many things what has said. Had Very important information for our community. And my compliments for you 2 guys being so open and vulnerable about your own stuff. Thanks for this ❤
Thanks Donny 🙏❤️
Hey! Love your podcast❤ loving you guys from Swaziland ❤
Sending you love from Canada 🇨🇦
I came of age in the latter half of the 1970s, a time far different from today. I lived at home with my parents since I attended and graduated from a local university. I first started experimenting in about 1975, at age 19, and fell in love the following year. All while leading a double life. That relationship eventually ended, and I went back in the closet until the early 1980s, when I met someone 17 years my senior, and we basically had a platonic relationship. In the mid-1980s, I fell in love again, with a different guy. By this time, I was living on my own, which facilitated living the personal life I craved. However, this person was already in a relationship, with another guy, and they eventually moved to San Francisco in 1990. I have had mostly crushes since then. I eventually came out to my parents in an email on Coming Out Day in 1999, and they basically accepted me. I was still on a natural high during this time, having just attended a spiritual gay men’s group retreat in the NC mountains. Since then, I’ve basically arrived at a point in my life where I really don’t care what other people think, and would tell anyone who asked me about my sexuality.
Loved reading your story.
What an incredible journey! Thank you for sharing with us
I'm half Asian. I felt isolated being gay, can't talk to someone about how I feel. Keeping this secret inside for years wondering how will things develop. I came out when I was 20. I was seeing a girl but we didn't have sex, eventually coming out. I thought the gay community will be open to me but it wasn't that way.
It sounds like you’ve been through a lot. Coming out can be a huge step, and it’s understandable to feel isolated if you don’t have people to talk to. Our Facebook group is full of supportive members who would love to hear your story and offer a listening ear. Don’t hesitate to join and connect with others who understand what you’re going through.💞
Here's the link for the Facebook group: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
You may also visit our website, we have available courses that might help you: www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/
Wow! What an amazing episode… Thank you for this… Thank you for bringing forward the importance of vulnerability
Thanks for the book recommendation (The Velvet Rage / Alan Downs / 2005) . As a man previously married to a woman... I also recommend Alexis by Marguerite Yourcenar. It's a fictional story of a man who leaves his wive and child behind...the whole book is a long letter explaining his reasons...and most importantly...how shame played a major part in his actions. I think the book is interesting because it makes you travel to other historical/cultural contexts...yet it touches on a familiar topic for us gay men
Velvet Rage was a life-changer for me as a gay man. Thanks for this recommendation as well! My bookshelf is overflowing but I love a good read.
Coping mechanisms for dealing with guilt & shame.. varies but once you start loving your true self - flaws & all, (nobody is perfect thank goodness), it is a step in the right direction. Just take another step, it gets easier down the road travelled ...as you learn more about yourself ...
Great podcast! There are fault lines among gay men that can be painful but need to be understood. I got into a debate, e.g., on another platform regarding my preference for masc-to-masc relationships. One guy responded by commenting that such relationships are ALWAYS toxic. He finally backed down when I told him that when I was younger I had a few somewhat androgynous boyfriends who understandably felt very hurt and letdown when I moved on. --I felt bad about this but knew t I had to be true to who I was and respect my strong, underlying sexual preference for a convincingly masculine partner. But I have never questioned the underlying unconditional deservability of people regardless of gender, race, etc.,
Hey guys, Jimmy here!
I've only recently discovered your channel but man, I believe this is exactly the kind of insight and education our community as a whole really really needs. You are doing amazing work😇
My journey has also been full of shame, masking and insecurity, feeling of both hopelessness and worthlessness etc
I came out relatively young at 15, I am currently 32, and have also come to understand that I, like Matt, am also demisexual.
I have always valued meaningful connections, and would consider myself a highly sensitive person, not just emotionally.
I've done a lot of inner child and shadow work over the past few years and this journey of healing and acceptance we are all on is one that is constant y'know? I want us all to have deep and meaningful connections with ourselves and others so I'm all in on this with you guys!❤
We’re glad you’re here Jimmy 🤗
Kind of explains why “You better be an A-lister or you’re sh*t” is such a common belief in the gay community. Even if many don’t embrace it particularly, it’s pretty hard not to feel “less than” if you did not achieve that status. Of course it’s a human thing generally too, but it’s got a feel all it’s own there.
Thank you Fellows, articulate, nuanced👌I always feel a friendly sad envy for anyone who escaped being scapegoated. Quite humiliating. I was ashamed for liking girls, even. (Velvet Rage👌) Observations re perfectionism👌 The 3 modes, HAC, Hiding, Avoiding, Compensating, fully applicable. I had to quit drinking, 24 yrs, still miss it. I don't mind hearing about it, to those who can handle it, More power to ya. Your suggestions re healing shame 👍I would add patience, so darn slow process. Matt, do you know the Annie Lennox lyric "...And when i think that i'm alone, it seems there's more of us at home. There must be an angel..."
Great points here. I love me some Annie Lennox 👌🏼❤️ - Matt
Awesome content! Amazing work! Thank you so much! Keep doing what you do, it helps a lot. It touches me.
What are you suggesting we do as young gay boys? You're talking about why we get the shame but how do we not feel it? How do we avoid it? Because the shame in my mind of younger guys isn't getting better. They're just more rebellious, more angry an acting out more.
It's tough to shake off societal pressures, but remember, you're valid and deserving of love and respect. Let's focus on building a supportive community and challenging harmful stereotypes together.
@@GayMenGoingDeeper Gayborhoods across the US are disappearing from bigger cities because of the move to online. In my city we used to have 3 gay bars at any given time all of them gone in 2008. We've never even had a gayboorhood nor has most of the US. Most of us live in small communities that aren't interested in supporting gay men.
I tbink for me it has been...i may be gay but im not one of those annoying gays..which basically has led me being a very repressed quiet adult...i started doing drag last yr as a form of therapy but yeh thats probably a trait ive carried thru and it really makes interacting with others difficult as im not sure who i am any more
Thank you so much for this .
It's our pleasure!❤
It’s curious how I felt the same way Matt felt when we were listening to Michael’s first comment. I have mentioned before that I have had similar experiences in my childhood as you both, so I completely understand this feeling of shame. And even though I think I have done the work and it almost doesn’t hurt anymore, of course I still feel shame occasionally. For instance, passing by a group of strange straight men on the street can be intimidating, and as much as I live in a progressive city, there is always the possibility of being discriminated because you don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to know that I’m gay. But now my family supports me and loves my husband, and we have a very big number of friends in our lives to be completely happy. So in the end, I guess most days I’m just like “if you you don’t like me, turn the fuck around, cuz I ain’t goin’ nowhere!”, but it did take years to get here. Happy pride month!
Thank you Gentlemen.
Needed to hear this
I wonder how this ties in to Gay Guilt, a term I've coined to examine how gays often overcompensate.
This is such an important video for the gays.
Absolutely, this video carries significant importance for the 🏳🌈 community. It's crucial to have content that resonates with diverse experiences and promotes understanding and acceptance. Thanks for highlighting its importance!🙏💞
Brilliant.
Awww... Thank you!💖
Shame. The real pandemic that pervades this society. Thanks for this conversation. I wish I could give you both a big hug xo
Energetic hugs are just as good! Thank you
How do I get to join the monthly zoom mens group ?
Hi there! We appreciate you asking.❤Kindly visit this link to join events: www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/events/
If u were to turn back time, what is the other option? Grenade the info to ur peers?
I hope skyhooks and space tethers are part of the game
Ooh, that would be epic! Skyhooks and space tethers would take things to a whole new level. Thank you!🙂
Which past video focused on shadow work?
I don't get what reading books and being shy and sensitive has to do with being gay???
Interesting, if no surprise, that you two who are young enough to be my sons, even my grandsons, should have gone through almost exactly the same kind of repressed puberty/teen years that I did decades before you. Glancing through the comments, it’s a depressingly consistent paradigm. Oddly, I came out before you both meaning in my second year of college. Though I was never a party boy or promiscuous or a chronic drug user. My shame issues have far less to do with my sexuality than a passive aggressive family who raised me as “the poor damaged runt of the litter.”
Thank you for sharing your experience 🙏It's striking how shared experiences of shame can transcend generations. Your story underscores the profound influence of family dynamics on our self-image and journey towards healing.💝
@@GayMenGoingDeeper Family is foremost whether we like it or not. Thank you for providing us with another and uniquely powerful family connection. ❤
I dont think im ever going to get to a point where i can interact peacefully with other gay men. Im always attacked and honesidont know why am im fucking tired and am starting to noseeppl as flesh vessels bc they dont treat each other like they should.
We're really sorry to hear that you're feeling this way. It's tough when you don't feel accepted or understood. Remember, not all interactions will be negative, and there are supportive communities out there. It might help to seek out safe spaces where kindness and respect are the norm. Sending hugs!💞
You may check our website:
www.gaymensbrotherhood.com/
Don’t you think the right person was talking too much in the beginning?
Shame comes from religion maybe you can start there....
Do not resonate with your topic for this podcast, I did not feel shame in my young life, I just did not understand why I had the feelings I did for a young man at the age 4/5 years old, later it was one 15 year old Prefect at school I had a crush on.
Religion was my burden as my family were very zealous and extreme, homosexuality was NEVER spoken of, I thought my feeling may change as I grew older, girls would chase me but I had no feeling for them?
I was still celibate at 27 years of age and happy in myself but yet a feeling of isolation as all my str8 friends got married and I was left as a spare part that did not fit in?
My journey in the gay World, in my 28 Th year, I hated it, the scene was alien, disjointed and vulgar to my feeling, I was not street wise and timid, a very sheltered background and no 'real' life experience at this point, so I was very vulnerable, just meat for the gay market?
I still looked 18 or 19 then so often asked for ID even at 28, I was embarrassed. If only I had been born now and not in the dark times of the 50's, the young guys now by comparison have it easy in my experience, you may disagree with me but it is an honest reflection and many in my generation agree. I have no shame, I am who I am...period!!
Thank you for sharing your journey so openly. It sounds like you've been through a lot, navigating your identity in a time when the world wasn’t as open or accepting as it is today. We can understand why the scene felt alien to you, especially with such a sheltered background and the weight of religion. Your experience is real, and we appreciate your honesty-everyone’s path is different, and it’s powerful to hear how you’ve come to embrace yourself with no shame. That’s something to be proud of!🙌
@@GayMenGoingDeeper thank you guys it means a lot, love and light be ever with you. Xx
@@aidenfreedom Thank you so much! xoxo❤
@@GayMenGoingDeeper ❤
Yes sin is shameful but Jesus removes this when we repent of this sin
Bunch of bull
One of my coping mechanisms was and still is, I became a people pleaser. Everyone liked me because I was so easy to get along with. All the while keeping that terrifying secret of who I truly was, am. At the age of 68 I am still grappling with people pleasing behavior.