You can create a balancing board and use a bench supply to bring the cells up to a 'safer' storage level , somewhere around 3.7-3.8V each by using big Zener ciodes in a line across that connector, then use a variable bench supply to set the total voltage and a nice, low amperage. That'll at least prevent cathode degredation.
Definitely gonna swing back around to actually watch this! EDIT: I'm back, repairing EV batteries to be able to last for years after the repair is not quite possible, module replacements would need to be tailored to identical capacity which is not as simple as remove/replace. I wish it was. Really cool man. Tks for tearing this apart and showing it!
That sort of repair is indeed feasible - you just need to find a module that's close to the same capacity... +/- 50 or so watt hours would work. There's companies that do it - The more places doing it, the more available these modules would become. To a point mind you. The other option, would be a complete module swap with compatible units, or some re-programming. There's definitely options.
My 2016 Spark EV still gets 110 km per full charge around Vancouver (summer range, don’t ask about winter), but even though my charges are mostly 8A at 220V for longevity, I worry about the day that 1 module shuts down the whole car and GM says their overpriced battery units are no longer available. If you ever find more modules please let me know!!!
@@peters8758 thanks for the comment! I've seen a couple floating around on eBay and what not. I still have four that I haven't used yet lol, however I have plans for all of them for the moment.
Its not a BMS, in a car its called a BECM because it doesn't do anything with out a vehicle computer module . At 3.0VDC that cell might be below the published cutoff voltage specification, a charger will not charge a cell below cutoff voltage and the the cell is generally consider damaged and its chemistry is no longer viable.
@@mpirron1 yep, that cell proved to be the definite failure point. As it was the end cell of the pack, it was adhered using adhesive tape to the pack end cap. So rather then risk tearing it open, I ended up using it for the scooter pack that I built... That was a mistake. It ended up causing me to be stranded a few kilometers from home with that cell prematurely dying. So I pulled the pack apart, and VERY VERY carefully peeled that cell off of the end cap over the course of about two hours using plastic pry tools. Ever at the ready to throw it out the window should I inadvertently tear it open. But I managed to get it done. Replaced it with one of the good cells, and now the scooter battery pack is extremely healthy ☺️
@@edsgarage2.0 you can always tell if you damage a cell and expose it to air by the smell. The potassium hydroxide electrolyte has an unmistakable smell. It's actually very difficult to cause the Li-ion to start on fire. You can throw them in a fire and they won't start on fire. The worst thing you can ever do for a battery cell is overcharge it tho, close second is expose it to water.
Hey Ed, Ian here, great video! I did the math for you, that was $3560 in components you saved, plus the fluid heater and its controller, whose prices you didn't mention. So glad some great use came out of this thing and it didn't end up in a landfill! Looking forward to the rest of the series here to see how implementation goes! Wondering though, why won't you need to run coolant during use? Is it just a matter of discharge speed? I can see for the house backup not needing it, but in a higher current situation (like the scooter I see in another video) wouldn't you want to run coolant just for life extension? Maybe that's answered there, but thought I'd ask. Speaking of discharge speed, I did a little more math. The average home here uses 900 kWh per month, which comes to about 1 kW. From observation, this is equivalent to driving a Spark EV at around 2km/h (just above idle speed)! It also means the battery backup of 6 kW would last about 12 hours of normal use (assuming that average consumption of ~30 kWh is done in the waking 16 hours of the day). It might not run your oven long, but it'd be a full-power substitute in the case of short term blackouts, and could keep ten 9W LED bulbs (60W equivalent) powered for just under 3 days!
Thanks for the comment! I'm not worried about cooling these batteries even in the scooter, as the draw and charge speeds aren't enough to really heat the batteries up much. On a test run of the scooter with both my wife and I together on it going up hills and cruising around at full speed in 23C weather, the batteries never exceed 27C. As for the house... I'll probably just stick to using my car's V2L to run half the panel and just stick to using minor appliances. Other projects are coming soon. I've got a 60 volt to 110 volt inverter coming from China, so I'll be building a portable battery back soon.
Maybe that bad module had a clog in the coolant hose or port? I'm not sure what the maintenance schedule is on these cars, but maybe the coolant is supposed to be flushed after a certain amount of time? It looked kind of brown when you emptied that one module.
I wonder if the coolant is age or heat related to braking down the coolant I think tesla does not need to change the coolant in there cars for maintenance not like ice car?
H ello! I have a 2016 Chevy Spark EV and noticed a lower battery range performance. Dealership performed the Electrical Systems Diagnosis ($175). They determined that the battery is functioning at 22.6 Ah, compared to the minimum 31.5 Ah. Headquarters is reluctant to act on it. They want me to "wait and see" and do another diagnostic in August. Do they think they made a misdiagnosis? Should I push for a repair order to start? The warranty expires in August, two months from now. Any advice?
Quick question can I replace the battery on my spark Chevy for a larger one to get a greater range since my car just barely goes over 60 miles if possible can it increase it to over 100 miles or will that be a fantasy I’ll have to live with, thank you
While it's technically possible... It's not going to be simple. Current battery technology is of course superior to what the Chevy spark EV came with. So if you were to replace the cells with something that had a higher energy density, but the same basic specs like voltage, discharge capacity etc, then you'd have a better range. That would be the simplest way to do it. That way you'd be able to keep everything else the same and use existing BMS, controller, inverter etc. It would require 96 individual lithium ion cells, in 6 modules, each with 16 cells spot welded in series. Each module would need to be disassembled and have each individual cell removed and replaced with new ones. A tonne of work.
@@edsgarage2.0 you will have a hard time finding battery cells that power-dense even today, we are going backwards in that regard currently focusing on materials management and battery safety as opposed to power density. These batteries are exceptionally strong for their size.
I need a professional opinion: my 2016 Spark EV battery range was diminishing, so I took it to the Chevy dealership to run an electrical systems diagnosis test. The battery degradation was assessed at functioning at 22.6Ah, compared to an expected minimum of 31.5 Ah. The battery is still under warranty for another two months and the dealership headquarters are reluctant to act on it just yet. They want to run another diagnostic in August before they do anything. The first cost me over $150. Do they think they misdiagnosed a problem? Any advice?
I don't think they misdiagnosed it... As if they can make you happy by having GM pay up for a battery, then they would most likely do it. It's free money for them as it's a relatively easy repair (about 4 hours). Consider getting a second opinion at a different GM dealership. If you can, don't charge it to full for a while, charge it sporadically... It's more likely to unbalance if you do that, which may give it a lower reading. You're very close to a "failure" of 30% degradation.
@@edsgarage2.0 Thanks for responding! They don't want to repair it "yet" because apparently the 1 year battery warranty ran out in 2019, and we only have the 100,000 mi 8-year warranty for general issues remaining. Since the car isn't displaying any "battery problem codes" they are reluctant to fix it, even if it is running at less than the 35% stated. FIngers crossed this can be resolved, or at least a repair order started, before the final warranty runs out.
@@riskyraccoon Update! After several weeks of collecting data of how much range the battery was providing, the dealership offered to do a second complementary diagnostic assessment of our battery. They determined that it was under performing and headquarters agreed to replace the battery under warranty! (We were two weeks away from the 100,000 mile, 8 year "extended warranty" expiring.) We will have to wait until October, but it will still be covered.
You can create a balancing board and use a bench supply to bring the cells up to a 'safer' storage level , somewhere around 3.7-3.8V each by using big Zener ciodes in a line across that connector, then use a variable bench supply to set the total voltage and a nice, low amperage. That'll at least prevent cathode degredation.
Thx!
Yeah, very low SOC in storage is bad for the cells
@@lemongavine I've got a charger coming in tomorrow
Definitely gonna swing back around to actually watch this! EDIT: I'm back, repairing EV batteries to be able to last for years after the repair is not quite possible, module replacements would need to be tailored to identical capacity which is not as simple as remove/replace. I wish it was. Really cool man. Tks for tearing this apart and showing it!
Thx for the comment!
That sort of repair is indeed feasible - you just need to find a module that's close to the same capacity... +/- 50 or so watt hours would work. There's companies that do it - The more places doing it, the more available these modules would become. To a point mind you.
The other option, would be a complete module swap with compatible units, or some re-programming. There's definitely options.
My 2016 Spark EV still gets 110 km per full charge around Vancouver (summer range, don’t ask about winter), but even though my charges are mostly 8A at 220V for longevity, I worry about the day that 1 module shuts down the whole car and GM says their overpriced battery units are no longer available. If you ever find more modules please let me know!!!
@@peters8758 thanks for the comment! I've seen a couple floating around on eBay and what not. I still have four that I haven't used yet lol, however I have plans for all of them for the moment.
Its not a BMS, in a car its called a BECM because it doesn't do anything with out a vehicle computer module . At 3.0VDC that cell might be below the published cutoff voltage specification, a charger will not charge a cell below cutoff voltage and the the cell is generally consider damaged and its chemistry is no longer viable.
@@mpirron1 yep, that cell proved to be the definite failure point.
As it was the end cell of the pack, it was adhered using adhesive tape to the pack end cap. So rather then risk tearing it open, I ended up using it for the scooter pack that I built... That was a mistake. It ended up causing me to be stranded a few kilometers from home with that cell prematurely dying.
So I pulled the pack apart, and VERY VERY carefully peeled that cell off of the end cap over the course of about two hours using plastic pry tools. Ever at the ready to throw it out the window should I inadvertently tear it open.
But I managed to get it done. Replaced it with one of the good cells, and now the scooter battery pack is extremely healthy ☺️
@@edsgarage2.0 you can always tell if you damage a cell and expose it to air by the smell. The potassium hydroxide electrolyte has an unmistakable smell. It's actually very difficult to cause the Li-ion to start on fire. You can throw them in a fire and they won't start on fire. The worst thing you can ever do for a battery cell is overcharge it tho, close second is expose it to water.
@@mpirron1 Well.... I still wouldn't wanna chance it lol
Hey Ed, Ian here, great video! I did the math for you, that was $3560 in components you saved, plus the fluid heater and its controller, whose prices you didn't mention.
So glad some great use came out of this thing and it didn't end up in a landfill! Looking forward to the rest of the series here to see how implementation goes! Wondering though, why won't you need to run coolant during use? Is it just a matter of discharge speed? I can see for the house backup not needing it, but in a higher current situation (like the scooter I see in another video) wouldn't you want to run coolant just for life extension? Maybe that's answered there, but thought I'd ask.
Speaking of discharge speed, I did a little more math. The average home here uses 900 kWh per month, which comes to about 1 kW. From observation, this is equivalent to driving a Spark EV at around 2km/h (just above idle speed)! It also means the battery backup of 6 kW would last about 12 hours of normal use (assuming that average consumption of ~30 kWh is done in the waking 16 hours of the day). It might not run your oven long, but it'd be a full-power substitute in the case of short term blackouts, and could keep ten 9W LED bulbs (60W equivalent) powered for just under 3 days!
Thanks for the comment!
I'm not worried about cooling these batteries even in the scooter, as the draw and charge speeds aren't enough to really heat the batteries up much.
On a test run of the scooter with both my wife and I together on it going up hills and cruising around at full speed in 23C weather, the batteries never exceed 27C.
As for the house... I'll probably just stick to using my car's V2L to run half the panel and just stick to using minor appliances.
Other projects are coming soon. I've got a 60 volt to 110 volt inverter coming from China, so I'll be building a portable battery back soon.
Maybe that bad module had a clog in the coolant hose or port? I'm not sure what the maintenance schedule is on these cars, but maybe the coolant is supposed to be flushed after a certain amount of time? It looked kind of brown when you emptied that one module.
It was possibly because it was the last module. But yeah it hadn't reached the mileage for recommended fluid change yet.
I wonder if the coolant is age or heat related to braking down the coolant I think tesla does not need to change the coolant in there cars for maintenance not like ice car?
@@lesterng5748 the coolant looked in very good condition. Everything was super clean.
The coolant is vacuum-filled there should be no reason to change the fluid if its never exposed to air, that had been so its oxidized.
H ello! I have a 2016 Chevy Spark EV and noticed a lower battery range performance. Dealership performed the Electrical Systems Diagnosis ($175). They determined that the battery is functioning at 22.6 Ah, compared to the minimum 31.5 Ah. Headquarters is reluctant to act on it. They want me to "wait and see" and do another diagnostic in August. Do they think they made a misdiagnosis? Should I push for a repair order to start? The warranty expires in August, two months from now. Any advice?
The spark never came with a battery that big.... Numbers are off
Quick question can I replace the battery on my spark Chevy for a larger one to get a greater range since my car just barely goes over 60 miles if possible can it increase it to over 100 miles or will that be a fantasy I’ll have to live with, thank you
While it's technically possible... It's not going to be simple.
Current battery technology is of course superior to what the Chevy spark EV came with. So if you were to replace the cells with something that had a higher energy density, but the same basic specs like voltage, discharge capacity etc, then you'd have a better range. That would be the simplest way to do it. That way you'd be able to keep everything else the same and use existing BMS, controller, inverter etc.
It would require 96 individual lithium ion cells, in 6 modules, each with 16 cells spot welded in series. Each module would need to be disassembled and have each individual cell removed and replaced with new ones.
A tonne of work.
@@edsgarage2.0 you will have a hard time finding battery cells that power-dense even today, we are going backwards in that regard currently focusing on materials management and battery safety as opposed to power density. These batteries are exceptionally strong for their size.
@@mpirron1 I've been noticing that... There are good replacement cells out there, but you're right, there's not much.
I need a professional opinion: my 2016 Spark EV battery range was diminishing, so I took it to the Chevy dealership to run an electrical systems diagnosis test. The battery degradation was assessed at functioning at 22.6Ah, compared to an expected minimum of 31.5 Ah. The battery is still under warranty for another two months and the dealership headquarters are reluctant to act on it just yet. They want to run another diagnostic in August before they do anything. The first cost me over $150. Do they think they misdiagnosed a problem? Any advice?
I don't think they misdiagnosed it... As if they can make you happy by having GM pay up for a battery, then they would most likely do it. It's free money for them as it's a relatively easy repair (about 4 hours).
Consider getting a second opinion at a different GM dealership.
If you can, don't charge it to full for a while, charge it sporadically... It's more likely to unbalance if you do that, which may give it a lower reading. You're very close to a "failure" of 30% degradation.
@@edsgarage2.0 Thanks for responding! They don't want to repair it "yet" because apparently the 1 year battery warranty ran out in 2019, and we only have the 100,000 mi 8-year warranty for general issues remaining. Since the car isn't displaying any "battery problem codes" they are reluctant to fix it, even if it is running at less than the 35% stated. FIngers crossed this can be resolved, or at least a repair order started, before the final warranty runs out.
@@LaraT-cw1oq keep bugging them!
any updates? thx
@@riskyraccoon Update! After several weeks of collecting data of how much range the battery was providing, the dealership offered to do a second complementary diagnostic assessment of our battery. They determined that it was under performing and headquarters agreed to replace the battery under warranty! (We were two weeks away from the 100,000 mile, 8 year "extended warranty" expiring.) We will have to wait until October, but it will still be covered.
Are the battery a123 battery or Samsung battery?
Neither, they're LG chem batteries
I have A123 battery in my 2014 spark ev
@@lesterng5748 yep, Chevy switched to the LG chem battery in 2015