Yes, there is something about chaining to the dovetail of the trailer. However, I think a bigger factor is putting a greater percentage of the load on the tongue. Tongue weight is what smooths out towing. Over the road truckers always want 34,000lbs on their drives. It’s smoother to carry the load than to pull the load. We’ve found this to be true with our fifth wheel. The first few years we had awful bucking with the trailer weight around 15,000lbs. Ever since we went full time, the bucking has stopped completely. The same trailer now weighs a touch over 18,000lbs. The difference is that our tongue weight went from 23% up to 27%. The BIGGEST downside to the Big 3 rating their pickups to towing such heavy trailers is that they don’t have the payload ratings to back up the tow ratings. If you run the numbers, you’ll see that Ford, GM, and RAM all max out the trucks GVWR with about a 15% tongue weight. Example: 2020 Ford F-450... 37,000lbs max trailer, 14,000lbs GVWR, base curb weight 8,587lbs (5,413lbs PAYLOAD)... Assuming 200lbs for driver, that means only 5,213lbs for the tongue weight...or 14% of trailer weight! NO THANK YOU!
As an OTR trucker, youre only partially correct on this. We dont always want 34k on the drive axles all the time. the best way to describe it is to balance the weight equally between both axle groups with a slight extra on the trailer axles. This method rides much smoother and also allows for the weight differential for extra fuel. I regularly balance any load over 35000lbs gross freight weight. Empty, my truck and trailer weighs appr. 33000lbs. This makes a GVW of 78000lbs. No two loads are the same, no two loads are ever loaded the same way, so every load over 35k gets weighed at a CAT Scale. My personal formula for our trailers, which I have taught to other drivers as it works like a charm, is to subtract the lighter axle weight from the heavier, divide that number by 2 (to split the weight in half) and then divide that number by 360lbs (amount of average weight per locking pin hole on our sliding rail on the trailer). this will give a number between 1 & 10 (typically). Take that number and slide the trailer axles that many holes, rounding down if sliding towards the rear. This method leaves +/- 360lbs of weight difference for a perfectly balanced load, with the extra on the back end. Moral of the story, know your equipment, know your weights and how to use that to your advantage.
@@brandoncostanzo7214 talked to a guy that hauls only a road work equipment and he has lineup marks for each type he moves, 100% know your equipment and weights
lots of videos on how to disable the seatbelt chime, its super easy (key to run, buckle unbuckle like 3 times within a few seconds, then turn the key to off)
You can chain your load the opposite direction so it stays secured. Then no need to chain back to dovetail. So your rear chain runs forward. Your front chain runs backward if that makes sense. So the front chain never runs past rear of machine yet your chains are still angled and crisscrossed for a secure load.
Had the same problem on 2 trailers. 1st was our camper. It came with a gooseneck hitch on the 5th wheel. Got a 5th wheel hitch for my f350 dually and it solved 90% of the huckn'buck. We have a new 2 car hauler trailer for our business. Its 40' texas pride car hauler trailer with gooseneck hitch. That thing beat me up. With changing that trailer to a 5th wheel it changed our life. So much better. Nearly zero huckn'buck. Now going to add a torque tube because of the twist (side to side) . Getting rid of that gooseneck will shorten the hitch greatly and reduce the back and forth flex. Even with your geny hitch, it's tall. In your video I still seen the flex. If you want the smoothest ride, get a trailer saver air ride 5th wheel hitch for your truck and switch your trailer to 5th wheel. Good luck and be safe
You figured out the problem! It was operator error. You can allow more of the load over the axles by placing load onto the tail BUT you need to chain to the main deck. Don't allow the chains to cross the hinge. If you change the directions of your chains, you can keep everything secure, keep the tongue load balanced, and enjoy the ride a little better. Glad that you decided that you don't need to suffer for the rest of your life! Stay safe!
I’m glad you are able to fine the sweet spot for the diamond C trailer. Also like how you are comparing your 5500 to the 3500. Loved the video content as well. Keep up the good work and stay safe out there.
What I have found with bucking on gooseneck trailers, is, the shorter the load (heavy) the worse they ride. The concentrated weight will make the frame/gooseneck flex. When you use the full length of the trailer, they will ride way better. Such as a load of hay or long logs. You need weight behind the trailer axles to help offset the weight in front of the axles. Even my gooseneck dump trailers will buck with a short heavy pile of gravel. Spread the weight full length and the ride quality goes way up.
Have a 19’ 3500 H.O. - pulling a skid on a new 30’ Diamond C, 12 axles, hydraulic dove - EXACT same issues as you. Beat me to death. Couldn’t figure it out. Thanks for the video & info. Won’t put anything on the tail anymore & I’ll see where that gets me
V-BELT and SON wanted to send an update, moving the weight off the dovetail completely has cut all the bucking. Rides smooth now. Thanks for the advice!
Your vid comes at perfect timing. Just picked up my 40' hydraulic dovetail today, one of the last builds before Diamond C shut down for Coronachan. My main machine is 14k plus attachments. I won't even bother trying to chain on the tail. I also ordered 60" axle spread to smooth the ride. Thanks.
Believe what you are experiencing is called "backslap" by big truckers. Caused by one or both of flex of the tractor frame (bowing between front/rear axles) makes seat rock for aft slapping your back in the seat. Second is trailer rocking front to rear around its center of mass, loading/unloading hitch weight with same result, more hitch weight (50/50 of trailer wgt best) helps . Loose the silly ball hitch and get proper fifth wheel hitch, if that trailer leans going around a corner you want to know it before it's seriously an OMGD situation. Good vid , keep on truckin ; >
As per your comments at 27:00 +, you have found the sweet spot that eliminates the Frame Rail Rebound / resonance that can occur. It's the same condition that can happen when an Army marches in cadence while crossing a bridge, this is why in military movements they will order route step/ random step before a bridge crossing. A lesson learned long ago, the hard way, they have collapsed bridges.
The trailer ramp / tail is like a moment arm - the pivot point is almost to the second axle so I would say you have 1/3 or more of the weight bouncing when you cross the bridge. The joints in the road may aggravate / amplify the vibration. It is like a teeter toter and the tail starts to shake and gets worse. This is why you have to load the tongue heavy and not have the machine over the second axle - more forward bias. Good video.
If you have an Aisin transmission that isn't shifting into first gear properly, check with the dealer to see if your Aisin transmission needs the Transmission Control Module (TCM) update for TSB 21-001-20. After installing the TCM update, my Aisin shifts into first gear like a dream.
Unplug the seat belt sensor under the seat. That worked for my ford. I wear my seat belt all the time, but even if I came to a stop and put the truck in park and in fastened my belt, it would alarm. Hope that helps.
Turn it to the power on without starting. Buckle and unbuckle 3 times starting bucked and ending buckled within 10 seconds. Turn the power back off afterwards. Shoukd hear a quick 2 or 3 bell ding saying its turned off. Thats how you turn the chime off for the seatbelts. Done it on both my trucks.
Hello. I drive a 2014 Ram 3500 with a 40' gooseneck that has a 10' overhang on the tail. The bucking problem is common, even with 52' flatbeds. This is especially noticeable when traveling over sectioned concrete roadways. This bucking occurs when the freewheel weight of the trailer launches upwards going over the roadway expansion grooves and would be at a different time the truck (power unit) hits the expansion grooves. This bucking can be teeth shattering at times, depends on how far apart the expansion grooves are and how fast you are traveling. I am not representing any company nor am I sponsored by anybody. I just drive hot shot for a living and have had this problem. The solution for me, was installing what's called a 'The Shocker' mount with my ball hitch gooseneck. It literally absorbs the bucking with air dampeners and has made my rig ride so much smoother. I have seen several versions of this mount, some with rubber, some using airbags. The principle is the same, and works really well for me. I see you just posted this video at the beginning of the month, and I happen to be looking at it today. I hope this helps. I do not know how to insert links, nor do I want to direct anyone away from your website or promote any particular product, just to avoid any possible liabilities. Check it out.
Chain trailer load to trailer tail load to tail do not split the two treat it like two trailers. Had same problem. Some loads will be odd to haul bc of this but diamond is not first to have this problem.
I had a tilt deck pintle hitch that I never was able to get to pull well no matter how little or much tounge weight it had. I have a 20ton eager beaver with a beaver tail that pulls great no matter how you load it.
Your getting vertical osculations down the I beam of the trailer because the vertical pivot at the ramp needs a chassis stiffiner like a pop-lock system used on an aircraft landing gear to keep them extended on landing. You need one when the tail is up position on the trailer. Your getting an S wave down the length of the trailer bouncing you up and down.
I'm a hot-shot O/O and I've found if you load your weight too far back you get a buck, and sometimes when you brake you will get a buck, that's from your brakes on trailer are set to light. If you load too far forward it seems to just bounce up and down too much. There is a honey spot to center your weight on.
I guessed that on your instagram post. I know that trailer was expensive but if you can't use those anchor points on the entire 12' tail of the trailer, it seems like wasted space. Who is consistently towing large enough items to consume most of the front of the trailer to get your desired tongue weight and the back of the trailer at the same time.
Looks like the dovetail joint is like a spring. All that weight bounching down the road and the tension from the front to back is like a loaded bow pulled back but with a weak spot, the dovetail. So the trailer axles are jumping. Interesting. Morgan says, "hi" and thumbs up for towing and equipment!
I have been fighting this issue with my 36' Loadtrail HDT. Vibratory rollers are the worst! I had a pretty bad load today and it was enough for me to start looking on UA-cam for some answers. The load I had today was chained to the tail and it was rough. I will absolutely try moving more forward and not shaining to the tail to see if that helps. Thanks for the content.
Whenever you contact a manufacturer about a problem with a piece of equipment, the first answer is always that nobody else has the problem even if hundreds of people have contacted them with the same problem. The internet has made it impossible for them to make such claims now. The Gen Y hitch moves the trailer back which might apply the weight far enough back that it doesn't load the front axle of the truck so the trailer is acting more like a bumper hitch. Can the Gen Y hitch be turned 180 degrees to put slightly more weight on the front axle of the truck. I'd be interested to see what the weight difference is with the Gen Y compared to a standard neck. It looks like the hitch moves back and forth as the torsion system pivots also. Some air couplers also pivot like that. An Air Safe coupler moves straight up and down from the trailer connection. I've long been a fan of air suspensions on trailers that haul varying amounts of weight because the amount of air can be varied to match the load.
unfortunately if you flipped it 180, no more wieght would transfer to the front end since the ball does not move. its not like a fifth wheel plate that actually moves the pin ( or ball in this case) location forward. the only thing flipping the hitch would do in his case would add a little tongue wieght. maybe a couple hundred pounds.
I really like the diamond c trailer it looks like a really well thought out and engineered trailer, but say that we have a 24 ft Texas pride and it is the best pulling trailer I have have ever pulled loaded or empty.
My flatbed does more of a "unbalanced tire" feel. But slowing to 45 mph usually clears the wobble feel. And my tractor with implement is no more than 6k. Using easy lift hitch makes the ride better, but don't always want to install easy lift bars. BTW my trailer is a bumper pull tilt deck over. And tractor placement gets finicky at times.
Something to try with the tail bounce issue. Run a chain from the drivers side rear tie down of the tail under the trailer to a tie down point on the passenger side of the trailer 12ft in front of the pivot. Run a second chain doing the opposite (passenger rear of tail underneath to driver side 12ft in front of pivot). get them tight and see of it's still bouncing. Bounce eliminated=tail is the problem and needs a better way to secure it. If it doesn't help, well you already have the chains/binders so only a waste of some time testing haha.
The vertical motion is known as chucking. Happens a lot when towing 5th wheel and gooseneck trailers. I've experienced it several times. I mostly notice it with my trailer when it's empty. Mind you, my gooseneck trailer utilizes a 5th wheel connection with a kingpin and not a ball, so the 5th wheel hitch does tend to rock or chuck a bit more than a ball connection does, as the 5th wheel hitch does tend to want to rock or pivot forward and backwards when you hit a bump on the hwy. I find with heavier pin weight it does help dumb down the chucking, but I'm convinced that if I bought a better & heavier duty 5th wheel hitch that it would help with dumbing down the chucking I'm experiencing. I'm thinking of buying a Curt 24K or maybe the Demco Recon 21,000 lbs hitch. My hitch is just a simple used one I bought a long while back and it's a 16K dual pivot Hidden Hitch.
Get er done Sam! It makes sense not chaining down to the tail. The gooseneck I use for work beats me up only when it’s empty because of the torsion axles and 80 psi on the 14 ply tires but rides smooth as could be when it’s loaded. Stay safe out there.
Lol my 40 ft gooseneck loadtrail tilt bed does the same to me empty i use my f450 to pull it. It's the heavy duty torsion suspension and 14 ply tires on the trailer have no flexibility so it send shocks all the way to the truck and jars us around. I dont remember it doing it with the 10 ply tires or not as bad
Technical experience I've just come across your channel. I've never towed a gooseneck but I have been towing all weights for nearly 55yrs. When you were talking about "bucking" I new the problem before I saw the trailer. The wheels are too far forward. When you were talking about your old trailer you answered your question (same wheelbase). With a drawbar trailer if you load it back-end heavy you'll end facing the opposing traffic!!! Another issue I found was towing with my motorhome (soft sprung) I have more bucking than with my van. That suspension on the neck softens the trailer nose-weight (hence softer sprung--more bucking), and maybe new truck softer sprung. Therefore you may need to compensate by moving load an inch or two more forward. Just my experience, hope it's an explanation Retired UK
I knew you would figure it out. There is a lot going on with axel spread, engineered beam pre-load and goose neck geometry 😳. Trial and error is really all you can do. Thanks for sharing Sam and stay safe out there my friend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸
It’s been “Ken, Party of One” hahaha, up here at the Rocking K but easy to self quarantine. Weird times were in and 🙏, that all friends and family stay healthy and safe.
Get in the pick up. Buckle up. Turn ignition on. Release seat belt and reattach seat belt three times in ten seconds. Wait for chime. Turn key off. Now seatbelt chime deactivated
Don't you DodgeRam guys have a software tool that can plug in via ODB and tune stuff like that? There's enough Cummins out there for the demand. Ford guys have FORscan, written by some off-duty Ford engineers. I used it to control when regens happen, and other stuff. Must be one for DodgeRams too. Check your forums.
@@JosieLeigh FORscan isn't a tune. It just lets us tweak internal settings that Furd in its infinite wisdom has hidden from us. Stuff like turning off gongs, seat belt chimes, or letting you run fogs with highs. My dually used to honk twice every time I got out of the truck with the key in my pocket, motor running. FORscan killed that quick. Anyway, Cummins being so popular, I just bet somebody has the same kind of thing for y'all.
Could always park on the tail but chain forward from rear not to the tail & backwards from the front not to the tail (or close very to the hinge for either) whenever possible. An accumulator in the tail hydraulics could help by resisting the tail movement/ bouncing. Either or both ways still need to balance the load right but you know that.
Without driving it i don’t know for sure but it could be harmonics between trailer and truck. On certain roads and at certain speeds it exacerbates the bumps in the road. This could be dependent on wheel base of the truck and trailer and speed. If you put another truck on it with a different wheel base does it change the speed when this happens?
I'm a Chevy Guy, love my LS engines but I had a 2015 2500 Ram because I always like the cummins and wanted to upgrade to a Dually so I test drove a 3500 with the H.O. engine and 4,11 gears. It rode way to rough for $65k so I tried a Ford F350 and what a night and day difference. This 2020 Ford is a beast. Dodge or Chevy don't even come close to the Power. 1100 Ft.lbs of torque. If you are in the Market, try a Ford, it will surprise you how well they drive.
I’m not sure if you ready many of the comments but I had the same issues. I found it happens on all of my engineered beam trailers. My PJ trailer is the worst. I think it due in part to the fact that they engineer the “bow” into it and the fact that they build them for the rated load. I have noticed over and over that my trailer rides the absolute smoothest and I mean like silk when it’s almost maxed out on weight rating. It’s weird. Empty if I catch the expansion joints on a bridge it’ll damn near buck u into the windshield. When I load my mini I’ll put blade on tail and actually put some down pressure to force the front track down in the center of the trailer to “load” the center point down best I can. I love the engineered bean look and design but the bucking drives me insane.
So I had a trailer do the same thing, or mine felt like it was going to yank the ball out of the bed. I think it was a 29' hyd tail. The axle location is what I would pay attention to, measure your older trailer & new trailer from center of trunion to goose coupler & compare. I sold the 29' & ordered a 32' .I was unhappy with the color when it showed up so I took a 34' they had on the lot. No more huck & buck.
I get that same spine compressing slamming action in my company issued Freightliner semi when I haul paper loads up from Virginia. Even with dead perfect weight distribution. The roads are shit but still it shouldn't be that bad. I'm thinking it's either borderline bad shocks on the truck (580k) and/or the fact that our trailers are spring ride. I'm leaning more towards the spring ride because even my little 18 foot bumper pull likes to buck behind my dually (identical to yours) when it's empty. Difference is it's like pulling a tow dolly behind a half ton. It doesn't feel such a small trailer.
I used to tow small tractors with a 2axle trailer attached to the rear of my vehicle. No 5th wheel. The load 2inches back or front was the difference between a smooth ride or jumping around in the seat.
Anchoring the weight over the hinge point amplifies the " springyness" of the total effect. This effect is solved over no hinge and any flex taken up with solid beam. To solve, consider same length with a sliding bogey. It' still puts the tail on the ground.
@vbeltandson part of your issue seems to be that there isnt enough weight distributed to the drive axles/tongue. the truck is jerking due to trying to lug dead weight sitting on the trailer axles. Move some weight forward and try to balance it out a bit better and see how it rides. Also, I highly recommend getting rid of that contraption between the gooseneck and the ball hitch. It adds way too much play in the connection, which can also contribute to the jerking. As an OTR trucker, youre always going to have a bit of tugging on the connection, its normal. Bad roads, dirt roads, poor weight distribution, potholes, gear changes, uneven pavement under one side of the truck vs the other, theres a million factors. Best advice I can give is this: A: Make sure ALL your tire pressures are to spec and equal all the way around. B: Check the play in your tongue connection C: Make sure your payload weight is as evenly distributed between your drive axles and trailer axles. The trailer axles act like a fulcrum when loaded, (think of a kids seesaw with a fat kid on one side and a skinny kid on the other). If the weight isnt balanced, it will jerk on the pin connection and you will feel every bump, making for a miserable ride. If you dont know what your empty axle weights are, take your unladen truck and trailer to any truck stop and weigh it on a CAT Scale. The printout will give you 4 numbers: Steer axle weight, drive axle weight, trailer axle weight and total gross weight. Use this info to determine how much extra weight you can afford to sit over the trailer axle vs the drive axle and get each load to balance. (if your axles are capable of sliding forward or rearward, this can also be used to adjust weights). I hope this helps you out a bit and maybe even solves your issue.
Well. I've got a 19 diamondC 40' 12k axles. It's does the bucking like you talked about. And also I'm trying to find a vibration between 63mph to 65mph....anywhere below or above said speed is smooth as glass...loaded or unloaded. And as far as fuel mileage until you delete that hog...your fuel is gonna be horrible. I've got a 13 duramax full delete with exhaust and uppipes...stock injectors built trans that I Hotshot with. Unloaded I get about 14-15. At 65. Loaded it drops to about 10-12. Same speed, depending about head wind...lol. Future plans of compound turbo and or a new duramax after the 22's come out
I watched the video and read a bunch of comments, after thinking about it awhile. If you compare HDT to a flip over ramp of the same trailer deck length the deck length in front of the trailer axles is different. On a 25+5 Flip is about 87% but on a HDT you’re at 60% “Deck length in front of axles %” hard to know without exact measurements but it is close. “keep in mind they designed the tires to tuck in under the tail, to move the axles as far back possible, sales pitch is to give you a longer tail for lower angle” Also with a flip over you can't typically get much weight aft of the axles as your balance would be way wrong and or you don't have enough space to drive heavy equipment as your deck is already filled up, You basically need a fork lift and a lot of weight to mess it up, but you only have 5 feet to leverage with. SO back to the HDT that entire ramp is counter balancing equal weight of trailer weight. your axles are also way forward in comparison so every lb moved towards the rear a higher % is carried by the trailer axles VS truck over your past flip ramp. I don’t feel strapping to the tail is the biggest issue but more about unloading weight off the truck. Yes a moving part of the trailer can also impact bounce if not properly designed but your equipment isn’t light so as it moves it’s very dynamic, as someone else mentioned Fat kid on a teditoter. I would love to see some scale tickets “All 3 axle groups” from different placements of equipment on the trailer, might be interesting to see what happens as you move stuff around even a few inches I suspect you will see drastic changes. My guess is more about weight movement VS the tail flapping about, in your first load you can see the front unload as you drove the machine back while raising the tail, you moved forward after the video cut some but those buckets are chump changed compared to that machine, and most of that machine was right over the axles.. Easy for the trailer to totter back and forth.
The whiplash you're talking is right. Something else you can do is chain to the frame of your big machine. Chaining to your tracks allows flex because of slack and the way the track tensioners work. Not really whipping like your tail but the is still little bursts of inertia generated. Especially on rough spots with lift, at the top of the bounce. Almost impossible to see driving, sometimes an escort vehicle can see it. Not a miracle cure but it helps. I've run superhauls 180,000lbs light loads, 230,000 lbs maxxed out. Things like the frame chaining(or not) won't really hurt you with the small stuff but can make a difference in how it handles. Take a D10 by the tracks alone and you'll probably break a chain, or binder, or worse if stupidity gets in your way on the road. I'm not into flex hitches. My personal goosenecks were strait hitch. Every class 8 truck you see is straight hitch too. I think they can generate as much as they solve in problems. When it's all good they're great. If your having a problem they can amplify it. Keep on you'll find the sweet spot. Thanks for sharing
To avoid binding to the tail, draw your chains and binders toward the center of the trailer, so the front chains would pull back & the rear chains will pull forward. I hope I'm clear enough on the explanation.
@@derekschmucker1609 done everyday. Especially hauling cars. 4 point attachment drawing the (wheeled/tracked) load to the bed of the trailer, pulling in opposite directions. It meets the criteria for securing a load.
Glad you found a breakthrough with the trailer. Hopefully the 5500 rides the same. We had a mild winter in Georgia this year too. Stay safe from the virus, it wreaking havoc in Ga right now. I’m holding tight myself. Stay safe everybody. 👍🏻💪🏻
Yeah towed with 5500 since this was filmed and all good on that end for sure. Thankfully And yeah brother stay safe out there! It’s getting crazier daily
I had the same exact symptoms with a Gatormade dump trailer but more severe, loaded or empty did not matter. I extended the tube to make the front of the trailer 1.5" higher than the rear on a 16' trailer. Night and day difference, I dont understand it, but Im telling you, I would try it. It is a total ripoff if you cant use 12 feet of a trailer, and besides that most of the time you wont be able to stay off of it. Its fine if you find something that works, but I wouldnt be able to just pull forward because it would be too much on the truck. This is super disappointing for Diamond C.
Seems like not enough tongue weight was actual cause and maybe amplified by the hitch that starts bouncing and keeps it going. Like others have mentioned you need to get it on the scales to see where everything sits.
I have a pretty good judgement where the weight based on how much the truck squatted. But nearest cat scale is more than an hour away. No time for that. She rides good now not chaining to the tail 🤘🏻
If you separate that long tail load-wise it will have a mind of its own and bounce, it will take four total turnbuckles to support the tail from the trailer using the load as a column or a dummy column to support the tail. Basically, you would be tying the tail to the rest of the trailer and pulling it up.
I saw the dovetail dropping slightly when hydraulic system shut off. Also noticed grim sitting in rim of both axles which reminds me of 18 wheeler wheel bearings going bad
Oh and glad to see your making a break through with the crow hop on the diamond C Sam, nothing as frustrating as diagnosing why something don't work right and you know it ain't broke lol
To disable the chime. Turn the key to the run position while not run, then plug the seatbelt in and out 3 times. Should turn it off. You can turn it back on the same way. Hope this helps 👍🏽
To get it to ride even better I bet you could center over the axles but chain from the back of the equipment forward to in front of the hinge, then chain from the front of the machine back(still in front of the hinge) this will probably stop it even more because the machine will press down on the tail yet won’t be chained to it.
Chain things to the inside (Essentially point chains backwards of normal) and load skid steers backwards so the counterweight isint over the tail (like the excavator)
By chaining to the rear your preventing the tail end from flexing completely it's like the front of the trailer when it goes down the tail has to go down and vice versa and I don't think you have enough weight o. The front of the trailer..go to a truck stop scale and weight all the axles compare those #'s..
yeah makes sense it's gotta be the dovetail when your bound to it and it could be causing the load and the tail both to bonce witch would be a lot of weight moving up and down
For DieselDoug77, the reason for 34,000 on the drives is. 34,000 drives plus 34,000 trailer plus 12,000 steering equals 80,000 total legal weight for a 5 axle semi :) :)
Bought a PJ 35’ gooseneck hauling 18k Ex on it and it bucks like an SOB too. Trying to figure it out. No dovetail. I’ve moved machining all around trailer. I’m going to pull over and try moving the chains.
Can you run your rear binders towards the front and your front binders towards the rear? This way your binder is still on the main trailer and you can still move your load back a little.
Im pulling 15-17k with 2 different fixed tail goosenecks, 20+3 hudson on 17.5's and a 16+4 tandem dual on 16" tires. Both will buck the trucks really bad, Have tried moving back/forward, turn machine around, put on timbrens. Never really found anything to stop the bounce or jerking
When I’m getting in and out of the vehicle and not driving on busy public roads, I usually buckle the belt behind me so I can still get in and out. And it doesn’t beep
I might have missed something, the tail may be flapping that's what tails are for ha ha. When the tail is up and locked can you put down pressure on it against the lock, even if you can only relax the pressure in the ram.
Wonder if you could run a chain across the trailer width wise under the tail and bind it down. Basically pulling the tail against the load. Or really against the reduction and addition of weight from gravity over bumps. Might not be the solution but may help diagnose.
They make a clip insert you can buy if u search seat belt clip insert. Some styles u can still buckle into or u can usually get an extension from your vehicle dealer that u can also clip into (designed for kids & short people). U can leave it in & the sensor will think you're clipped in. Just don't forget to actually buckle up brother!
700000 miles behind me doing this hot shot stuff with various 30ft and mostly 40ft trailers (24 years in a semi before I started this) and I’ve found that it’s in the trailer suspension, the 30ft would at times try to face plant me into the windshield if loaded to far back, the 40ft (12k axles) would ride fairly good loaded like you found but still brutal, even empty (concrete roads with the slight waves in the concrete, took me years to see the waves after dark with the oncoming lights ) it was ridiculous how much it bounced, 40ft big Tex trailer with 48” spread, 40ft pro trac, all the same bounce in various states ( Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, horrible bounce, Iowa was indescribable as you have 100 miles of going across that short bridge in your video) I almost sold it all and went back into a semi to save my body that was slowly being rearranged inside... I even bought a easy floater air ride hitch which helped but still violent at times, started looking for an air ride trailer with a (good) air ride, pj made some junk ones but (RIDE WELL) I was told was good, gator made was the only one that offered it when I was looking, plunked the money down for a 40ft 12k axles with air ride and disc brakes and problem solved, 3 years and 250000 miles and not an issue with the suspension and no more bounce (the wiring sucked as had to rewire the whole trailer in the 1st 6 months but I expected that since BigTex was the only one at that time that had good wiring but apparently weren’t interested in building me an air ride) I see they have them now but a little late to get my business, no regrets... AIR RIDE TRAILER is the fix, legal for 42000 pounds and run close to that frequently with a ram 4500.... (which rides like crap and looking to install the kelderman air ride on it sometime) lol
Do your axles slide forward and back? Last machine looks like wheels on trailer are forward more. My 2020 3500 and 2020 big Tex buck as well. Hurts my back at times
If I had a shot in the dark commit because I have very little experance In equipment trailers but I'd have to say maybe the extra rough ride might be from the difference In the axel spread maybe on the new trailer . I understand toung weight issues but that was my first thought.
Mike Heyd it was all from chaining to that tail. Axle spacing may change it a little but once I stopped chaining to the tail the ride was very similar to what my old trailer was
When you load High heavy Freight behind the rear trailer axle it's going to take weight off the rear of the truck and put it on your drive , and it will screw up your front suspension let alone your all of your bushings. And beat the heck out of you cuz every time you hit a dip in the road all that weight shifts off the back of the truck and bounces like a rubber ball. Seesaw ! I usually put it just about even with the back axle whatever it is that I'm hauling if it's over 8000 10000 pounds. You can usually just eyeball the tires on the back of the truck and gage it that way on how much ground pressure is on them.Aka Flatness. And remember if you put too much weight on the tongue removes weight from your front axle then you'll be floating no steering. That's what causes these tires on the front to wear out all uneven , it's only touching the road lighty not enough weight on them. Hope that helps. Stay safe
One thing I see (according to DOT in Florida) is you have the load improperly chained. That dozer should have four (4) DOT approved chains with ratchet style binders chained in an 'X' pattern, two on the front and two on the rear. Not sure if that would make much difference in the ride, but I agree with others that your tongue weight is too little.
I'm glad you have your ride figured out, but I'm curious if we really know the source of the problem. Was the issue solved simply with increased tongue weight, or was chaining to the tail a contributing factor? What happens if you move your rear anchor points further back on the tail so the chain is at a lower angle? Do you still get the oscillation with the load forward? Just curious. Anyway, thanks for another great video.
Hey Sam, if you can fool the computer with the seat belts that's you're best bet. If you can't, there should be 2 wires heading towards your seatbelt with a plastic clip connecting them. Disconnecting that mini harness will take care of it.
Seatbelt, has a connector that is 12 inches away from the top of the buckle, to get to it you have to take seat out and disconnect it. Goes into the flooring. Right under center console. Second, our gooseneck has 2 sliding pins, equivalent to that of a bolt action rifle but 20x larger that slide into the frame of the dove tail. Our other trailer (no name new paint job) has that but with hydralic rods and it doesnt do any bouncing. Large haul trailers for 18 wheelers have this feature and I've yet to see any dovetail flap with it.
Another thing to consider is anything wore slightly or misaligned in your trailers axles? I know its a brand new trailer so its unlikely. But none the less, if you've only just started experiencing the chucking recently and not before, I'd investigate any of the components of the trailers suspension to check off potential culprits that could be contributing to this.
Crawl under the rear of trailer strap the rear to somthing under it to solid frame and take it for a spin and is there enough room to put weight on tail and still chain past it
I think you cycle your key three times then buckle and unbuckle the belt three times. been so long I don't remember if that was the recipe, but I found out how to do it online. should be an easy web search.
When you are tail heavy like this load, any bump in the road seems like the trailer wheels are climbing a mountain. It will seem like the trailer is holding the truck back. When the trailer wheels clear the bump, they can cause the trailer to start bouncing (depending on weight, springs, tires and other things) and then you are in that cycle. Keep in mind about your weight distribution like Diesel Doug77 said. Try at least 60/40 to the front/rear. Max out tongue weight, but try not to exceed it.
I have a 32' pj with a power tail and it rides ruff I think it is better with the tail all the way up so it rides on the hydrolic cylender instead of the stop
i have no beefs with dodge but i still hall my 580 case and my td 6 international with 4 way bucket with my1969 ford flatbed i have homemade port injected 429 ci i built in high school i also built my 32 ft flatbed gooseneck myself one summer between halling hay. like your program .
Yes, there is something about chaining to the dovetail of the trailer. However, I think a bigger factor is putting a greater percentage of the load on the tongue. Tongue weight is what smooths out towing. Over the road truckers always want 34,000lbs on their drives. It’s smoother to carry the load than to pull the load.
We’ve found this to be true with our fifth wheel. The first few years we had awful bucking with the trailer weight around 15,000lbs. Ever since we went full time, the bucking has stopped completely. The same trailer now weighs a touch over 18,000lbs. The difference is that our tongue weight went from 23% up to 27%. The BIGGEST downside to the Big 3 rating their pickups to towing such heavy trailers is that they don’t have the payload ratings to back up the tow ratings. If you run the numbers, you’ll see that Ford, GM, and RAM all max out the trucks GVWR with about a 15% tongue weight. Example: 2020 Ford F-450... 37,000lbs max trailer, 14,000lbs GVWR, base curb weight 8,587lbs (5,413lbs PAYLOAD)... Assuming 200lbs for driver, that means only 5,213lbs for the tongue weight...or 14% of trailer weight! NO THANK YOU!
As an OTR trucker, youre only partially correct on this. We dont always want 34k on the drive axles all the time. the best way to describe it is to balance the weight equally between both axle groups with a slight extra on the trailer axles. This method rides much smoother and also allows for the weight differential for extra fuel. I regularly balance any load over 35000lbs gross freight weight. Empty, my truck and trailer weighs appr. 33000lbs. This makes a GVW of 78000lbs. No two loads are the same, no two loads are ever loaded the same way, so every load over 35k gets weighed at a CAT Scale. My personal formula for our trailers, which I have taught to other drivers as it works like a charm, is to subtract the lighter axle weight from the heavier, divide that number by 2 (to split the weight in half) and then divide that number by 360lbs (amount of average weight per locking pin hole on our sliding rail on the trailer). this will give a number between 1 & 10 (typically). Take that number and slide the trailer axles that many holes, rounding down if sliding towards the rear. This method leaves +/- 360lbs of weight difference for a perfectly balanced load, with the extra on the back end.
Moral of the story, know your equipment, know your weights and how to use that to your advantage.
@@brandoncostanzo7214 talked to a guy that hauls only a road work equipment and he has lineup marks for each type he moves, 100% know your equipment and weights
lots of videos on how to disable the seatbelt chime, its super easy (key to run, buckle unbuckle like 3 times within a few seconds, then turn the key to off)
You can chain your load the opposite direction so it stays secured. Then no need to chain back to dovetail. So your rear chain runs forward. Your front chain runs backward if that makes sense. So the front chain never runs past rear of machine yet your chains are still angled and crisscrossed for a secure load.
This channel is pure quality content
Thank you!
Had the same problem on 2 trailers. 1st was our camper. It came with a gooseneck hitch on the 5th wheel. Got a 5th wheel hitch for my f350 dually and it solved 90% of the huckn'buck.
We have a new 2 car hauler trailer for our business. Its 40' texas pride car hauler trailer with gooseneck hitch. That thing beat me up. With changing that trailer to a 5th wheel it changed our life. So much better. Nearly zero huckn'buck. Now going to add a torque tube because of the twist (side to side) .
Getting rid of that gooseneck will shorten the hitch greatly and reduce the back and forth flex. Even with your geny hitch, it's tall. In your video I still seen the flex. If you want the smoothest ride, get a trailer saver air ride 5th wheel hitch for your truck and switch your trailer to 5th wheel.
Good luck and be safe
You figured out the problem! It was operator error. You can allow more of the load over the axles by placing load onto the tail BUT you need to chain to the main deck. Don't allow the chains to cross the hinge. If you change the directions of your chains, you can keep everything secure, keep the tongue load balanced, and enjoy the ride a little better. Glad that you decided that you don't need to suffer for the rest of your life!
Stay safe!
I’m glad you are able to fine the sweet spot for the diamond C trailer. Also like how you are comparing your 5500 to the 3500. Loved the video content as well. Keep up the good work and stay safe out there.
What I have found with bucking on gooseneck trailers, is, the shorter the load (heavy) the worse they ride. The concentrated weight will make the frame/gooseneck flex. When you use the full length of the trailer, they will ride way better. Such as a load of hay or long logs. You need weight behind the trailer axles to help offset the weight in front of the axles. Even my gooseneck dump trailers will buck with a short heavy pile of gravel. Spread the weight full length and the ride quality goes way up.
Have a 19’ 3500 H.O. - pulling a skid on a new 30’ Diamond C, 12 axles, hydraulic dove - EXACT same issues as you. Beat me to death. Couldn’t figure it out. Thanks for the video & info. Won’t put anything on the tail anymore & I’ll see where that gets me
Let me know how it goes!
Austin V sounds like a trailor design problem Try a big Tex trailor they pull pretty solid
V-BELT and SON wanted to send an update, moving the weight off the dovetail completely has cut all the bucking. Rides smooth now. Thanks for the advice!
Your vid comes at perfect timing. Just picked up my 40' hydraulic dovetail today, one of the last builds before Diamond C shut down for Coronachan. My main machine is 14k plus attachments. I won't even bother trying to chain on the tail. I also ordered 60" axle spread to smooth the ride. Thanks.
Believe what you are experiencing is called "backslap" by big truckers. Caused by one or both of flex of the tractor frame (bowing between front/rear axles) makes seat rock for aft slapping your back in the seat. Second is trailer rocking front to rear around its center of mass, loading/unloading hitch weight with same result, more hitch weight (50/50 of trailer wgt best) helps . Loose the silly ball hitch and get proper fifth wheel hitch, if that trailer leans going around a corner you want to know it before it's seriously an OMGD situation. Good vid , keep on truckin ; >
As per your comments at 27:00 +, you have found the sweet spot that eliminates the Frame Rail Rebound
/ resonance that can occur. It's the same condition that can happen when an Army marches in cadence
while crossing a bridge, this is why in military movements they will order route step/ random step before
a bridge crossing. A lesson learned long ago, the hard way, they have collapsed bridges.
The trailer ramp / tail is like a moment arm - the pivot point is almost to the second axle so I would say you have 1/3 or more of the weight bouncing when you cross the bridge. The joints in the road may aggravate / amplify the vibration. It is like a teeter toter and the tail starts to shake and gets worse. This is why you have to load the tongue heavy and not have the machine over the second axle - more forward bias. Good video.
Hey now, I guessed your trailer was riding rough because it wasn't riding smooth. That made me kinda right!
If you have an Aisin transmission that isn't shifting into first gear properly, check with the dealer to see if your Aisin transmission needs the Transmission Control Module (TCM) update for TSB 21-001-20. After installing the TCM update, my Aisin shifts into first gear like a dream.
Unplug the seat belt sensor under the seat. That worked for my ford. I wear my seat belt all the time, but even if I came to a stop and put the truck in park and in fastened my belt, it would alarm. Hope that helps.
Turn it to the power on without starting. Buckle and unbuckle 3 times starting bucked and ending buckled within 10 seconds. Turn the power back off afterwards. Shoukd hear a quick 2 or 3 bell ding saying its turned off. Thats how you turn the chime off for the seatbelts. Done it on both my trucks.
Hello. I drive a 2014 Ram 3500 with a 40' gooseneck that has a 10' overhang on the tail. The bucking problem is common, even with 52' flatbeds. This is especially noticeable when traveling over sectioned concrete roadways. This bucking occurs when the freewheel weight of the trailer launches upwards going over the roadway expansion grooves and would be at a different time the truck (power unit) hits the expansion grooves.
This bucking can be teeth shattering at times, depends on how far apart the expansion grooves are and how fast you are traveling.
I am not representing any company nor am I sponsored by anybody. I just drive hot shot for a living and have had this problem. The solution for me, was installing what's called a 'The Shocker' mount with my ball hitch gooseneck. It literally absorbs the bucking with air dampeners and has made my rig ride so much smoother. I have seen several versions of this mount, some with rubber, some using airbags. The principle is the same, and works really well for me. I see you just posted this video at the beginning of the month, and I happen to be looking at it today. I hope this helps. I do not know how to insert links, nor do I want to direct anyone away from your website or promote any particular product, just to avoid any possible liabilities. Check it out.
Chain trailer load to trailer tail load to tail do not split the two treat it like two trailers. Had same problem. Some loads will be odd to haul bc of this but diamond is not first to have this problem.
I had a tilt deck pintle hitch that I never was able to get to pull well no matter how little or much tounge weight it had. I have a 20ton eager beaver with a beaver tail that pulls great no matter how you load it.
Your getting vertical osculations down the I beam of the trailer because the vertical pivot at the ramp needs a chassis stiffiner like a pop-lock system used on an aircraft landing gear to keep them extended on landing. You need one when the tail is up position on the trailer. Your getting an S wave down the length of the trailer bouncing you up and down.
William Green how does the pop-lock system used on an aircraft work. I’m intrigued.
I'm a hot-shot O/O and I've found if you load your weight too far back you get a buck, and sometimes when you brake you will get a buck, that's from your brakes on trailer are set to light. If you load too far forward it seems to just bounce up and down too much. There is a honey spot to center your weight on.
I guessed that on your instagram post. I know that trailer was expensive but if you can't use those anchor points on the entire 12' tail of the trailer, it seems like wasted space. Who is consistently towing large enough items to consume most of the front of the trailer to get your desired tongue weight and the back of the trailer at the same time.
Looks like the dovetail joint is like a spring. All that weight bounching down the road and the tension from the front to back is like a loaded bow pulled back but with a weak spot, the dovetail. So the trailer axles are jumping. Interesting. Morgan says, "hi" and thumbs up for towing and equipment!
I have been fighting this issue with my 36' Loadtrail HDT. Vibratory rollers are the worst! I had a pretty bad load today and it was enough for me to start looking on UA-cam for some answers. The load I had today was chained to the tail and it was rough. I will absolutely try moving more forward and not shaining to the tail to see if that helps. Thanks for the content.
Whenever you contact a manufacturer about a problem with a piece of equipment, the first answer is always that nobody else has the problem even if hundreds of people have contacted them with the same problem. The internet has made it impossible for them to make such claims now.
The Gen Y hitch moves the trailer back which might apply the weight far enough back that it doesn't load the front axle of the truck so the trailer is acting more like a bumper hitch. Can the Gen Y hitch be turned 180 degrees to put slightly more weight on the front axle of the truck. I'd be interested to see what the weight difference is with the Gen Y compared to a standard neck. It looks like the hitch moves back and forth as the torsion system pivots also. Some air couplers also pivot like that. An Air Safe coupler moves straight up and down from the trailer connection. I've long been a fan of air suspensions on trailers that haul varying amounts of weight because the amount of air can be varied to match the load.
unfortunately if you flipped it 180, no more wieght would transfer to the front end since the ball does not move. its not like a fifth wheel plate that actually moves the pin ( or ball in this case) location forward. the only thing flipping the hitch would do in his case would add a little tongue wieght. maybe a couple hundred pounds.
I really like the diamond c trailer it looks like a really well thought out and engineered trailer, but say that we have a 24 ft Texas pride and it is the best pulling trailer I have have ever pulled loaded or empty.
My flatbed does more of a "unbalanced tire" feel. But slowing to 45 mph usually clears the wobble feel. And my tractor with implement is no more than 6k. Using easy lift hitch makes the ride better, but don't always want to install easy lift bars.
BTW my trailer is a bumper pull tilt deck over. And tractor placement gets finicky at times.
Something to try with the tail bounce issue. Run a chain from the drivers side rear tie down of the tail under the trailer to a tie down point on the passenger side of the trailer 12ft in front of the pivot. Run a second chain doing the opposite (passenger rear of tail underneath to driver side 12ft in front of pivot). get them tight and see of it's still bouncing.
Bounce eliminated=tail is the problem and needs a better way to secure it. If it doesn't help, well you already have the chains/binders so only a waste of some time testing haha.
The b&w gooseneck placement is better then the factory ram location had a few buddy’s switch from ram factory to the b&w and made a big difference
The vertical motion is known as chucking. Happens a lot when towing 5th wheel and gooseneck trailers. I've experienced it several times. I mostly notice it with my trailer when it's empty. Mind you, my gooseneck trailer utilizes a 5th wheel connection with a kingpin and not a ball, so the 5th wheel hitch does tend to rock or chuck a bit more than a ball connection does, as the 5th wheel hitch does tend to want to rock or pivot forward and backwards when you hit a bump on the hwy. I find with heavier pin weight it does help dumb down the chucking, but I'm convinced that if I bought a better & heavier duty 5th wheel hitch that it would help with dumbing down the chucking I'm experiencing. I'm thinking of buying a Curt 24K or maybe the Demco Recon 21,000 lbs hitch. My hitch is just a simple used one I bought a long while back and it's a 16K dual pivot Hidden Hitch.
Glad you figured it out. Always a good feeling to do that. Chaining too far back makes sense.
If you put the pins in the dovetail lock and chained to it, it might bounce less or not at all. Give it a try and let us know.
Get er done Sam! It makes sense not chaining down to the tail. The gooseneck I use for work beats me up only when it’s empty because of the torsion axles and 80 psi on the 14 ply tires but rides smooth as could be when it’s loaded. Stay safe out there.
Lol my 40 ft gooseneck loadtrail tilt bed does the same to me empty i use my f450 to pull it. It's the heavy duty torsion suspension and 14 ply tires on the trailer have no flexibility so it send shocks all the way to the truck and jars us around.
I dont remember it doing it with the 10 ply tires or not as bad
seth birt I use to run 10 ply tires in the past and it’s wasn’t as bad for me either but 10 ply tires on goosenecks are a joke
Technical experience
I've just come across your channel. I've never towed a gooseneck but I have been towing all weights for nearly 55yrs. When you were talking about "bucking" I new the problem before I saw the trailer. The wheels are too far forward. When you were talking about your old trailer you answered your question (same wheelbase). With a drawbar trailer if you load it back-end heavy you'll end facing the opposing traffic!!! Another issue I found was towing with my motorhome (soft sprung) I have more bucking than with my van. That suspension on the neck softens the trailer nose-weight (hence softer sprung--more bucking), and maybe new truck softer sprung. Therefore you may need to compensate by moving load an inch or two more forward.
Just my experience, hope it's an explanation
Retired UK
I knew you would figure it out. There is a lot going on with axel spread, engineered beam pre-load and goose neck geometry 😳. Trial and error is really all you can do. Thanks for sharing Sam and stay safe out there my friend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸
Yeah so glad I figured it out. Bummer there is an issue but happy to know where and why it’s doing it. How’s everything going for you down the hill?
It’s been “Ken, Party of One” hahaha, up here at the Rocking K but easy to self quarantine. Weird times were in and 🙏, that all friends and family stay healthy and safe.
Get in the pick up. Buckle up. Turn ignition on. Release seat belt and reattach seat belt three times in ten seconds. Wait for chime. Turn key off. Now seatbelt chime deactivated
Chris Thoren work in my ‘17 Cummins. Thanks man
Don't you DodgeRam guys have a software tool that can plug in via ODB and tune stuff like that? There's enough Cummins out there for the demand. Ford guys have FORscan, written by some off-duty Ford engineers. I used it to control when regens happen, and other stuff. Must be one for DodgeRams too. Check your forums.
@@renohuskerdu4592
Yes there is. This step is for trucks not tuned. And only some tuners have that option
@@JosieLeigh FORscan isn't a tune. It just lets us tweak internal settings that Furd in its infinite wisdom has hidden from us. Stuff like turning off gongs, seat belt chimes, or letting you run fogs with highs. My dually used to honk twice every time I got out of the truck with the key in my pocket, motor running. FORscan killed that quick. Anyway, Cummins being so popular, I just bet somebody has the same kind of thing for y'all.
@@renohuskerdu4592
You mean ram. Cummins is just a motor not a chassis lol. Not sure on that sort of program
Could always park on the tail but chain forward from rear not to the tail & backwards from the front not to the tail (or close very to the hinge for either) whenever possible.
An accumulator in the tail hydraulics could help by resisting the tail movement/ bouncing.
Either or both ways still need to balance the load right but you know that.
I've got a Loadmax 28 footer with a hydraulic dove tail. Learned not to chain to the tail exactly the same way.
Without driving it i don’t know for sure but it could be harmonics between trailer and truck. On certain roads and at certain speeds it exacerbates the bumps in the road. This could be dependent on wheel base of the truck and trailer and speed. If you put another truck on it with a different wheel base does it change the speed when this happens?
I'm a Chevy Guy, love my LS engines but I had a 2015 2500 Ram because I always like the cummins and wanted to upgrade to a Dually so I test drove a 3500 with the H.O. engine and 4,11 gears. It rode way to rough for $65k so I tried a Ford F350 and what a night and day difference. This 2020 Ford is a beast. Dodge or Chevy don't even come close to the Power. 1100 Ft.lbs of torque. If you are in the Market, try a Ford, it will surprise you how well they drive.
yeah you just hate Ram
@@wirenut003 Why would I hate a RAM? I paid $65K for a new one 5 years ago, it just doesn't compare to the FORD.
I’m not sure if you ready many of the comments but I had the same issues. I found it happens on all of my engineered beam trailers. My PJ trailer is the worst. I think it due in part to the fact that they engineer the “bow” into it and the fact that they build them for the rated load. I have noticed over and over that my trailer rides the absolute smoothest and I mean like silk when it’s almost maxed out on weight rating. It’s weird. Empty if I catch the expansion joints on a bridge it’ll damn near buck u into the windshield. When I load my mini I’ll put blade on tail and actually put some down pressure to force the front track down in the center of the trailer to “load” the center point down best I can. I love the engineered bean look and design but the bucking drives me insane.
Before finishing this video, my guess is the load is to heavy to the rear of the trailer.
So I had a trailer do the same thing, or mine felt like it was going to yank the ball out of the bed. I think it was a 29' hyd tail. The axle location is what I would pay attention to, measure your older trailer & new trailer from center of trunion to goose coupler & compare. I sold the 29' & ordered a 32' .I was unhappy with the color when it showed up so I took a 34' they had on the lot. No more huck & buck.
I get that same spine compressing slamming action in my company issued Freightliner semi when I haul paper loads up from Virginia. Even with dead perfect weight distribution.
The roads are shit but still it shouldn't be that bad. I'm thinking it's either borderline bad shocks on the truck (580k) and/or the fact that our trailers are spring ride.
I'm leaning more towards the spring ride because even my little 18 foot bumper pull likes to buck behind my dually (identical to yours) when it's empty. Difference is it's like pulling a tow dolly behind a half ton. It doesn't feel such a small trailer.
I used to tow small tractors with a 2axle trailer attached to the rear of my vehicle. No 5th wheel. The load 2inches back or front was the difference between a smooth ride or jumping around in the seat.
Anchoring the weight over the hinge point amplifies the " springyness" of the total effect. This effect is solved over no hinge and any flex taken up with solid beam. To solve, consider same length with a sliding bogey. It' still puts the tail on the ground.
@vbeltandson part of your issue seems to be that there isnt enough weight distributed to the drive axles/tongue. the truck is jerking due to trying to lug dead weight sitting on the trailer axles. Move some weight forward and try to balance it out a bit better and see how it rides. Also, I highly recommend getting rid of that contraption between the gooseneck and the ball hitch. It adds way too much play in the connection, which can also contribute to the jerking.
As an OTR trucker, youre always going to have a bit of tugging on the connection, its normal. Bad roads, dirt roads, poor weight distribution, potholes, gear changes, uneven pavement under one side of the truck vs the other, theres a million factors. Best advice I can give is this: A: Make sure ALL your tire pressures are to spec and equal all the way around. B: Check the play in your tongue connection C: Make sure your payload weight is as evenly distributed between your drive axles and trailer axles. The trailer axles act like a fulcrum when loaded, (think of a kids seesaw with a fat kid on one side and a skinny kid on the other). If the weight isnt balanced, it will jerk on the pin connection and you will feel every bump, making for a miserable ride. If you dont know what your empty axle weights are, take your unladen truck and trailer to any truck stop and weigh it on a CAT Scale. The printout will give you 4 numbers: Steer axle weight, drive axle weight, trailer axle weight and total gross weight. Use this info to determine how much extra weight you can afford to sit over the trailer axle vs the drive axle and get each load to balance. (if your axles are capable of sliding forward or rearward, this can also be used to adjust weights).
I hope this helps you out a bit and maybe even solves your issue.
Well. I've got a 19 diamondC 40' 12k axles. It's does the bucking like you talked about. And also I'm trying to find a vibration between 63mph to 65mph....anywhere below or above said speed is smooth as glass...loaded or unloaded. And as far as fuel mileage until you delete that hog...your fuel is gonna be horrible. I've got a 13 duramax full delete with exhaust and uppipes...stock injectors built trans that I Hotshot with. Unloaded I get about 14-15. At 65. Loaded it drops to about 10-12. Same speed, depending about head wind...lol. Future plans of compound turbo and or a new duramax after the 22's come out
I watched the video and read a bunch of comments, after thinking about it awhile. If you compare HDT to a flip over ramp of the same trailer deck length the deck length in front of the trailer axles is different. On a 25+5 Flip is about 87% but on a HDT you’re at 60% “Deck length in front of axles %” hard to know without exact measurements but it is close. “keep in mind they designed the tires to tuck in under the tail, to move the axles as far back possible, sales pitch is to give you a longer tail for lower angle” Also with a flip over you can't typically get much weight aft of the axles as your balance would be way wrong and or you don't have enough space to drive heavy equipment as your deck is already filled up, You basically need a fork lift and a lot of weight to mess it up, but you only have 5 feet to leverage with.
SO back to the HDT that entire ramp is counter balancing equal weight of trailer weight. your axles are also way forward in comparison so every lb moved towards the rear a higher % is carried by the trailer axles VS truck over your past flip ramp.
I don’t feel strapping to the tail is the biggest issue but more about unloading weight off the truck. Yes a moving part of the trailer can also impact bounce if not properly designed but your equipment isn’t light so as it moves it’s very dynamic, as someone else mentioned Fat kid on a teditoter.
I would love to see some scale tickets “All 3 axle groups” from different placements of equipment on the trailer, might be interesting to see what happens as you move stuff around even a few inches I suspect you will see drastic changes.
My guess is more about weight movement VS the tail flapping about, in your first load you can see the front unload as you drove the machine back while raising the tail, you moved forward after the video cut some but those buckets are chump changed compared to that machine, and most of that machine was right over the axles.. Easy for the trailer to totter back and forth.
The whiplash you're talking is right. Something else you can do is chain to the frame of your big machine. Chaining to your tracks allows flex because of slack and the way the track tensioners work. Not really whipping like your tail but the is still little bursts of inertia generated. Especially on rough spots with lift, at the top of the bounce. Almost impossible to see driving, sometimes an escort vehicle can see it. Not a miracle cure but it helps. I've run superhauls 180,000lbs light loads, 230,000 lbs maxxed out. Things like the frame chaining(or not) won't really hurt you with the small stuff but can make a difference in how it handles. Take a D10 by the tracks alone and you'll probably break a chain, or binder, or worse if stupidity gets in your way on the road. I'm not into flex hitches. My personal goosenecks were strait hitch. Every class 8 truck you see is straight hitch too. I think they can generate as much as they solve in problems. When it's all good they're great. If your having a problem they can amplify it. Keep on you'll find the sweet spot. Thanks for sharing
To avoid binding to the tail, draw your chains and binders toward the center of the trailer, so the front chains would pull back & the rear chains will pull forward. I hope I'm clear enough on the explanation.
I've seen that done. I was wondering if that is considered acceptable to the DOT? Honestly just curious
@@derekschmucker1609 done everyday. Especially hauling cars. 4 point attachment drawing the (wheeled/tracked) load to the bed of the trailer, pulling in opposite directions. It meets the criteria for securing a load.
Glad you found a breakthrough with the trailer. Hopefully the 5500 rides the same. We had a mild winter in Georgia this year too. Stay safe from the virus, it wreaking havoc in Ga right now. I’m holding tight myself. Stay safe everybody. 👍🏻💪🏻
Yeah towed with 5500 since this was filmed and all good on that end for sure. Thankfully
And yeah brother stay safe out there! It’s getting crazier daily
Basically you want to prevent from chaining to the dovetail section of the trailer especially when you got a big piece of machinery on there
I would never have figured chaining to the tail would cause the trailer to huck' n buck like that. Great video to clear things up 👍🏽
Cotontop3 has a video on how to fix the seatbelt alarm.
Is cottontop Letsdig18's boyfriend that he owns the farm with?
I had the same exact symptoms with a Gatormade dump trailer but more severe, loaded or empty did not matter. I extended the tube to make the front of the trailer 1.5" higher than the rear on a 16' trailer. Night and day difference, I dont understand it, but Im telling you, I would try it.
It is a total ripoff if you cant use 12 feet of a trailer, and besides that most of the time you wont be able to stay off of it. Its fine if you find something that works, but I wouldnt be able to just pull forward because it would be too much on the truck. This is super disappointing for Diamond C.
Jus picked up a 04 Cummins 2500. Black on black loaded Laramie. Love it!
That’s awesome! Congrats
What miles and what did you pay?
Sold it already. Lol gave 9k. Sold it for 11. Had 250k miles. Was nice inside an out.
I have a 2011 mega cab atm. With a maxxd air bagged car hauler. Love the set up.
Seems like not enough tongue weight was actual cause and maybe amplified by the hitch that starts bouncing and keeps it going. Like others have mentioned you need to get it on the scales to see where everything sits.
I have a pretty good judgement where the weight based on how much the truck squatted. But nearest cat scale is more than an hour away. No time for that. She rides good now not chaining to the tail 🤘🏻
If you separate that long tail load-wise it will have a mind of its own and bounce, it will take four total turnbuckles to support the tail from the trailer using the load as a column or a dummy column to support the tail. Basically, you would be tying the tail to the rest of the trailer and pulling it up.
If you want to drop the engine temp look at the mishimoto radiator. I installed in my 2013 ram 3500 made a big difference.
And mishimoto intercooler. Put one on my second gen
I saw the dovetail dropping slightly when hydraulic system shut off. Also noticed grim sitting in rim of both axles which reminds me of 18 wheeler wheel bearings going bad
Oh and glad to see your making a break through with the crow hop on the diamond C Sam, nothing as frustrating as diagnosing why something don't work right and you know it ain't broke lol
To disable the chime. Turn the key to the run position while not run, then plug the seatbelt in and out 3 times. Should turn it off. You can turn it back on the same way. Hope this helps 👍🏽
turned my seatbelt and son ;) off right when i got my truck. there are simple vids on it. Aloha.
My 3500, I discovered that my 19.5 rims were not the right rims and were off center, a universal rim that fit all but will not center.
To get it to ride even better I bet you could center over the axles but chain from the back of the equipment forward to in front of the hinge, then chain from the front of the machine back(still in front of the hinge) this will probably stop it even more because the machine will press down on the tail yet won’t be chained to it.
Chain things to the inside (Essentially point chains backwards of normal) and load skid steers backwards so the counterweight isint over the tail (like the excavator)
👍🏻
By chaining to the rear your preventing the tail end from flexing completely it's like the front of the trailer when it goes down the tail has to go down and vice versa and I don't think you have enough weight o. The front of the trailer..go to a truck stop scale and weight all the axles compare those #'s..
yeah makes sense it's gotta be the dovetail when your bound to it and it could be causing the load and the tail both to bonce witch would be a lot of weight moving up and down
Scott yeah the bad bounce cleared up big time when I stopped chaining to the tail. Big improvements. Glad I know what was going on now
For DieselDoug77, the reason for 34,000 on the drives is. 34,000 drives plus 34,000 trailer plus 12,000 steering equals 80,000 total legal weight for a 5 axle semi :) :)
Bought a PJ 35’ gooseneck hauling 18k Ex on it and it bucks like an SOB too. Trying to figure it out. No dovetail. I’ve moved machining all around trailer. I’m going to pull over and try moving the chains.
Can you run your rear binders towards the front and your front binders towards the rear? This way your binder is still on the main trailer and you can still move your load back a little.
Im pulling 15-17k with 2 different fixed tail goosenecks, 20+3 hudson on 17.5's and a 16+4 tandem dual on 16" tires. Both will buck the trucks really bad, Have tried moving back/forward, turn machine around, put on timbrens. Never really found anything to stop the bounce or jerking
I noticed the same shake with my suv though not so drastic. It ended up being my rear passenger was open. Closed it and it smoothed out my ride
When I’m getting in and out of the vehicle and not driving on busy public roads, I usually buckle the belt behind me so I can still get in and out. And it doesn’t beep
I might have missed something, the tail may be flapping that's what tails are for ha ha. When the tail is up and locked can you put down pressure on it against the lock, even if you can only relax the pressure in the ram.
Wonder if you could run a chain across the trailer width wise under the tail and bind it down. Basically pulling the tail against the load. Or really against the reduction and addition of weight from gravity over bumps. Might not be the solution but may help diagnose.
maybe if theres a larger weight on the tail, then use a binder to pull some load from the tail to the main deck by connecting them together?
They make a clip insert you can buy if u search seat belt clip insert. Some styles u can still buckle into or u can usually get an extension from your vehicle dealer that u can also clip into (designed for kids & short people). U can leave it in & the sensor will think you're clipped in. Just don't forget to actually buckle up brother!
700000 miles behind me doing this hot shot stuff with various 30ft and mostly 40ft trailers (24 years in a semi before I started this) and I’ve found that it’s in the trailer suspension, the 30ft would at times try to face plant me into the windshield if loaded to far back, the 40ft (12k axles) would ride fairly good loaded like you found but still brutal, even empty (concrete roads with the slight waves in the concrete, took me years to see the waves after dark with the oncoming lights ) it was ridiculous how much it bounced, 40ft big Tex trailer with 48” spread, 40ft pro trac, all the same bounce in various states ( Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, horrible bounce, Iowa was indescribable as you have 100 miles of going across that short bridge in your video) I almost sold it all and went back into a semi to save my body that was slowly being rearranged inside... I even bought a easy floater air ride hitch which helped but still violent at times, started looking for an air ride trailer with a (good) air ride, pj made some junk ones but (RIDE WELL) I was told was good, gator made was the only one that offered it when I was looking, plunked the money down for a 40ft 12k axles with air ride and disc brakes and problem solved, 3 years and 250000 miles and not an issue with the suspension and no more bounce (the wiring sucked as had to rewire the whole trailer in the 1st 6 months but I expected that since BigTex was the only one at that time that had good wiring but apparently weren’t interested in building me an air ride) I see they have them now but a little late to get my business, no regrets... AIR RIDE TRAILER is the fix, legal for 42000 pounds and run close to that frequently with a ram 4500.... (which rides like crap and looking to install the kelderman air ride on it sometime) lol
Yeah our spring ride rail chassis buck like a bitch too even with perfect weight distribution.
Hydraulic dove tails are awesome for loading equipment but I never cared for them other then that. Harder to back up and tail bounces too much.
Do your axles slide forward and back? Last machine looks like wheels on trailer are forward more. My 2020 3500 and 2020 big Tex buck as well. Hurts my back at times
If I had a shot in the dark commit because I have very little experance In equipment trailers but I'd have to say maybe the extra rough ride might be from the difference In the axel spread maybe on the new trailer . I understand toung weight issues but that was my first thought.
Mike Heyd it was all from chaining to that tail. Axle spacing may change it a little but once I stopped chaining to the tail the ride was very similar to what my old trailer was
When you load High heavy Freight behind the rear trailer axle it's going to take weight off the rear of the truck and put it on your drive , and it will screw up your front suspension let alone your all of your bushings. And beat the heck out of you cuz every time you hit a dip in the road all that weight shifts off the back of the truck and bounces like a rubber ball. Seesaw ! I usually put it just about even with the back axle whatever it is that I'm hauling if it's over 8000 10000 pounds. You can usually just eyeball the tires on the back of the truck and gage it that way on how much ground pressure is on them.Aka Flatness. And remember if you put too much weight on the tongue removes weight from your front axle then you'll be floating no steering. That's what causes these tires on the front to wear out all uneven , it's only touching the road lighty not enough weight on them. Hope that helps. Stay safe
Completely makes sense. But that was not the issue here.
What has the trailer manufacturer said about problem.
One thing I see (according to DOT in Florida) is you have the load improperly chained. That dozer should have four (4) DOT approved chains with ratchet style binders chained in an 'X' pattern, two on the front and two on the rear. Not sure if that would make much difference in the ride, but I agree with others that your tongue weight is too little.
I'm glad you have your ride figured out, but I'm curious if we really know the source of the problem. Was the issue solved simply with increased tongue weight, or was chaining to the tail a contributing factor? What happens if you move your rear anchor points further back on the tail so the chain is at a lower angle? Do you still get the oscillation with the load forward? Just curious. Anyway, thanks for another great video.
Hey Sam, if you can fool the computer with the seat belts that's you're best bet.
If you can't, there should be 2 wires heading towards your seatbelt with a plastic clip connecting them. Disconnecting that mini harness will take care of it.
*it'll be under the seat
Rear binders go forward. Front binders go rear! That might still allow for positioning you would like!
Seatbelt, has a connector that is 12 inches away from the top of the buckle, to get to it you have to take seat out and disconnect it. Goes into the flooring. Right under center console. Second, our gooseneck has 2 sliding pins, equivalent to that of a bolt action rifle but 20x larger that slide into the frame of the dove tail. Our other trailer (no name new paint job) has that but with hydralic rods and it doesnt do any bouncing. Large haul trailers for 18 wheelers have this feature and I've yet to see any dovetail flap with it.
Another thing to consider is anything wore slightly or misaligned in your trailers axles? I know its a brand new trailer so its unlikely. But none the less, if you've only just started experiencing the chucking recently and not before, I'd investigate any of the components of the trailers suspension to check off potential culprits that could be contributing to this.
My guess at the 7 min mark is the springs are setting up a frequency set off by a bump in the road and then self bouncing.
Crawl under the rear of trailer strap the rear to somthing under it to solid frame and take it for a spin and is there enough room to put weight on tail and still chain past it
I think you cycle your key three times then buckle and unbuckle the belt three times. been so long I don't remember if that was the recipe, but I found out how to do it online. should be an easy web search.
Glad you got it all figured out.
You should contact diamond c and see if they recommend chaining down to the dove tail.
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When you are tail heavy like this load, any bump in the road seems like the trailer wheels are climbing a mountain. It will seem like the trailer is holding the truck back. When the trailer wheels clear the bump, they can cause the trailer to start bouncing (depending on weight, springs, tires and other things) and then you are in that cycle. Keep in mind about your weight distribution like Diesel Doug77 said. Try at least 60/40 to the front/rear. Max out tongue weight, but try not to exceed it.
There is 4 different loads in this video
I have a 32' pj with a power tail and it rides ruff I think it is better with the tail all the way up so it rides on the hydrolic cylender instead of the stop
i have no beefs with dodge but i still hall my 580 case and my td 6 international with 4 way bucket with my1969 ford flatbed i have homemade port injected 429 ci i built in high school i also built my 32 ft flatbed gooseneck myself one summer between halling hay. like your program .