One of the things that makes this topic never ending, is the fact that the human species still doesn't know the difference between a trem and a vibrato, let alone metals.
We can thank C. Leo Fender for this confusion. He never got the two terms right, but instead used them interchangeably. That's why we have tremolo effects in Fender amps (and these really should be called tremolo effects, as they vary the volume of the signal) and also have the famous Stratocaster Synchronized "Tremolo," which we can agree should actually be called a vibrato, since it's a PITCH-changing device! Sometimes I write this stuff in somewhere just to remind myself of the truth!
@@domoniquebrooks816 I agree to a certain extent, but I also hold players responsible for learning the ins and outs of their craft. I can't read music, but I do know those two terms. We really should hold Fender and the other big musical equipment manufacturers to account for the misuse of the nomenclature by voting with dollars for properly labeled gear! In other words, we should learn the terms and get them right, and then insist on the same from the makers!
I’ve been using Floyd’s for over 30yrs and if I have tuning issues the studs have been the issue 90% of the time. A quick and easy fix a lot of people don’t even think about, I’ve seen people go and buy the most expensive trems on the market and not change the studs and can’t figure out why their guitar still won’t stay in tune.
90% of what I care about is that the knife edges and studs are made of hardened steel or something even more durable, that's the most important part for tuning stability. Stainless steel screws are also a plus. There's the aspect of longevity that's to me just as important, had cheap trems that aged like raw milk :D
I only use steel Floyds, because they don't wear out as fast. Steel saddles only matter acoustically as far as I am concerned. I doubt whether that is discernable when amplified.
Talking about the zinc alloy baseplates of the Schaller or Edge, I'd add that if someone was to strip out the intonation adjustment screw holes on the zinc alloy baseplates, they'll have to replace the whole baseplate. If those threaded holes strip out, they can't be replaced. Plus, stripping out those holes on a zinc alloy baseplate happens a lot more often than having knife edge issues on hardened steel baseplates. Personally, I'd take an OFR, FR1000, or Gotoh GE1996T over any other locking tremolo system any day of the week.
You just don't want zinc/pot metal for a few reasons, 1st being clarity, you will get a warm tone with zinc, but not a tight, defined type sound with brilliance and clarity. Like mentioned in the vid, the friction points, like saddles are what I'm talking about. 2nd, they will WEAR OUT ! so if you want something that will get old with you, Zinc will not do ( examples of zinc are Fender trems 1972_ 81, Jackson double locking) The OFR tremolo is tops, but you need to address the nut and saddles (shims) depending on your neck radius preference. The 'Tremline' tremolo's coming out of Bulgaria seem to be a VERY exciting option on par with the OFR tremolo.
@@nblax41I am fairly sure that Schaller Lockmeister have a hardened steel baseplate. Nothing zinc about that. Oh wait... you meaning the basic Schaller. The screw holes in those zinc base plates wear out far to fast to be reliable.
Nobody ever described the Ibanez edge and subsequent Ibanez designs as having a "warm" or "muddled" tone! Yes the string loading part of the saddle is steel and the knife edge plate is hardened steel, but the rest is a zinc alloy.
@@literal_lee The Lockmeister is indeed all steel and brass construction, but the old Schaller licenced design has a zinc alloy baseplate with hardened steel knife edges pressed into it. The saddles are the same steel as the Floyd though. The Lockmeister was a response to the Floyd Rose patents expiring, allowing Schaller to offer what is essentially a Floyd Original, but without FR Industries percentage.
@@pauln6803 I had one of those licensed Schallers on my Gibson MIII and those bolt holes for the saddles wore out very fast. I just read up on the Ibanez edge trem and although it has a potmetal baeplate, it has steel knife edges and inserts for the saddle screws/bolts.
A few addendums 1. titanium is _lighter_ than hardened steel; but its actually more _brittle_ 1.:20 2. There are several variants of the ibanez "edge" tremelo (original, edgepro, edge zero, zr, edge 2, edge 3) etc. like the floyd rose many say the original edge is the best. I have an edge 3 on an rg 330 and its inferior to an edgepro or an og edge.
Could you do a Review of the Graphtech Unlock Nut? Also would be cool to see a vid showing off a bunch of Trem upgrades on the same instrument. Things like upgraded saddles, 1 - 2x Göldo Back Box trem stabilisers (NOT trem stoppers), Claw upgrades like the Schaller SureClaw Tremolo Spring Tensioner and noiseless trem springs, Graphtech Unlock Nut and Locking Tuners. Would be great too see how such a suped up trem systems would work, how reliable is the tuning and how easy are string changes and setups.
I think one thing you might have overlooked is the saddle blocks. I've had a few over the years that start to "squish " and get stuck in the saddle and can crack the saddle. Unfortunately had it happen lol. I have a few guitars with Floyd Rose originals and 2 with Schaller. I bought an entire Schaller tremolo system and it cost me 750.0 buy the time it got to the house. I'll mention that I'm in Canada so anything we order is ridiculous. The quality is amazing! It is smoother and takes to sensitive playing extremely well. One thing I noticed about both Schallers is they have hardened steel threaded inserts for the saddles. The system I bought was a gold unit I installed on a Peavey V-type exp and the other is on my 1996 Hamer Californian. I've replaced all my saddle blocks with Titanium saddle blocks from Fu-tone and brass big blocks on all my guitars.
@@charlesb7831 Most titanium alloys are softer than steel. But Ti alloys due tend to have very high tensile strength so are at least unlikely to crack and stick in the saddle like I've seen with Schaller/Floyd steel blocks.
@pauln6803 depends if you getting real Titanium. None of my Titanium blocks even show any marks from the strings, no marring of any kind. Same with any of the Titanium parts on my bikes, always seems to hold up no problem. I've cracked a saddle on a 1989 Floyd Rose original, honestly had more issues with blocks deformity then saddle issues. I know not all Titanium is the same either. I have a Titanium ring that saved my finger from being crushed in a car door. More damage to the door frame then the ring lol.
Gotoh 1995-t is effectively a manufacturer branded Ibanez Edge, very minor tweaks between the two but its more or less the same design with the same materials. Same pop in arm, saddle shape, etc, and its usually under 150 bucks. Best option on the market imo cost to performance ratio
In my opinion, the biggest difference you can make is upgrading the saddles to titanium. My schecter with the korean made floyd rose (1500) had an issue with the B string popping out when bending hard and when I pulled out the saddles I found some indents from years of use, upgrading to titanium has got rid of the issue and the tone had a noticable change.
It matters what your saddles are made of, the pot metal saddles don't tighten very well and easily strip out. Was a mistake buying a cheap ESP with the crap metal tremolo, was a fun playin guitar until the saddles stripped out, that happened in about 3 months. It matters.
I recently upgraded to the revised Lockmeister with radiused saddles and it is supremely superior to the Floyd Rose 1000! Hands down it will not go out of tune under extreme use!
You forgot the most interesting Tremolos - The Kahler Spyder/Killer hat nobody knows how to setup so it gets a bad reputation, the Steeler which is probably the most superior locking tremolo ever made, and IMO the best production tremolo you can buy right now is the Gotoh 1996T should have a shout out at least! Ibanez does not sell the knife edges for the Edge for a few reasons. 1 - they want you to just buy a new bridge. 2 - Nobody was able to easily get the old ones out of the tremolo and would often damage the soft baseplate doing so. 3 - same goes for installing them, damage to edges or baseplate. The standard procedure know is to deburr them every few years, they should never need replacement. The posts will however, as they are softer metal, as they are in most trems (you cant have hardened steel on hardened steel, it would cause structural problems over time). One more note is that the Schaller and Gotoh have an interesting resonance quality to them being that they are soft metal. I have around a dozen guitars with various tremolos all on the same guitar rack. Strumming the strings of the German OFR equipped guitars vs. the Edge or Schaller there is a notable loudness. Now, does that translate to the amp when it's being held? Doubtful.
@@bruceniblett959 They are more stiff, notably so. Worse for flutters, but more stable for everything else. Really comes down to playstyle, most people do not flutter at all. Thats a real bummer, the Steelers are legendary, some pro guitarists have a stockpile of them and put them on all of their guitars (Nuno is one of them)
@KH-id2hr yeah. I had mine in the 90s and I loved Eddie and Vai. So I wore out the killer. It stopped staying in tune. The Steeler was the best. Im sure the new Steeler is amazing but too expensive. The Steeler I got in 1994 was like $a lot. The Vega looks cool
there is diehard Kahler guys out there, I do not think I have ever tried one, I knew a guy that only wanted Charvel/Jackson guitars that came with Kahlers
Thanks for video. Very good watch. However. You didn't mention the gotoh 1996. I'm quite familiar with ibanez edge and lo pro. Absolutely great bridges. I recently tried a gotoh in my ibanez j witch came with a lo pro. I noticed more clarity, more resonance and overall a sturdier more solid feel. There's a long story about Floydrose pattent wich explains a lot about why bridges are made like they are thar I won't get into here. Anyway, gotoh combines the best aspects of an edge (deeper posts with locking mechanism) and the best part of the ofr. Solid hardened steal base plate. I hope you do a video dedicated to this Pinnacle of floating bridge designs. Also, one thing about the edge and lo pro. The finish wears very easily if you palmemute or rest your hand on them in any way. Purely cosmetics, but still. No wear at all on my gotoh. Plus. The gotoh is dirt cheap! 😊 One last thing. You must acknowledge that Steve vai and Joe are ibanez "artists" of course they use an edge.
It's in the player themselves. I would suggest this, read the liner notes in equipment from players, example, Maiden live after death, Rockinger tremolos used, when is the last time you used one? Well Adrian made it sound good. Kahler trem, Kerry King made those sound good, Standard Fender trems, all the greats made those sound good. Floyd's doesn't matter what one, they all are really good, proper set up, neck set up and level frets make the difference for a player that can actually really play. I prefer a Floyd because it's what I learned on and I love the feel, same with standard Gibson bridge system. Gibson, Jackson/Charvel and Schecter for me are the business and nothing tops them. Wild card guitar, Sammy Duet SD-2 why ? Because it's a beast, just look at it! Plus has a Floyd with great hardware used. Gotoh Japan makes great hardware too, so does Schaller.😊 Bottom line unless you're in the studio cutting an album, or touring then maybe alloys and durability will stand up to the abuse, i think its marginal in some cases with certian things, yeah absolutely different alloys carry unique tone, for sure. Most people are hobbiests or collectors i would assume. Strings, good pickups and amp. I prefer crystal clear chord definition and tones of sustaine, the guitars i play have all of that, but i had to seriously find those and play many that felt and sound good for me. Its very subjective and personal preference. My floyds are genuine so i prefer those.
I have a fee trem/vibrato equipped guitars. Lowest grade of all these bridges is a Floyd Rose Special. This guitar has a few hundred playing hours on it, knife edges are still in good condition, bit the saddles are already getting indentations from strings. This pisses me off.
My cousin Yul Suk Dong works in a China steel mill. He says to be weary of cheap Chinese knock off's as the quality is low. He himself is forced to live in mud enclosures near the factory.
I wanted to dispute this but there is real truth here. My example, I have a lot of trem guitars and the vast majority are OFR. Then I have these two, Ibanez UV70P (Universe) and ESP LTD Cult 86. The UV70P came with an Ibanez Edge Zero II-7 bridge. EVERYONE has clowned that bridge at every opportunity but I have beaten the ever-loving hell out of that trem and it does NOT go out of tune. Everyone speculates that it should fail but it doesn’t ever. Like ever. It only has hardened steel in the areas mentioned in this video. The Cult 86 which I bought brand new came with a Floyd Rose Special. I destroyed that tremolo on the very first night of ownership as the strings literally cut grooves into the trem blocks and saddles and it would no longer stay in tune. Why? Becasue the Floyd Rose Special has cheap metal EVERYWHERE. I replaced it with an OFR as per my usual and have had no problems since, however it is actually as reliable and stable as my Edge Zero II-7 in my Ibanez Universe. Also I have a Jackson Soloist Pro from 1990 and the original Jackson branded Schaller trem is still in it and also works just fine with no issues. I wanted to argue, but this video speaks truth. They work if the high quality metal is only where it needs to be.
Ehh, the locking nut screw and the saddle screws need to have quality materials as well, because they will strip. With stainless steel, you can use gorilla strength so that you don't have to worry about the strings popping out, and no matter how much strength you use, it'll be fine. Use too much strength on bad material screws, they're goi6to eventually break.
I’m with you 100% on this, most of my upgrades have been to Gotoh 5 but I also own 5 Ibanez’s with the Pro Edge but you make 100% sense to me here on this topic
*I have never agreed with a video so hard in my life. Guys, listen to Nik. He knows what he is talking about here.* *I'm a Schaller 1302 guy. It's the official name for the non-Lockmeister.* The Schaller 1302 is wider and shorter than the OFR and Lockmeister. The 1302 is specifically designed for small, recessed Floyd Rose routes like those found in MIJ and other imported Jacksons, ESPs/LTDs, and BC Riches. Most of my guitars are Jackson Professional and JS guitars from the 90s and 00s that I bought used and upgraded with quality hardware and electronics. *What makes the Schaller great is, now that the Original Floyd Rose Pro without long saddle bolts has been discontinued, the Schaller is the best FR style trem to fit small recessed routes besides the vintage OFR non-fine tuner version. Even then, the Schaller having removable knife edges means the baseplate's life span is pretty much infinite.* My Jackson, BC Rich, and ESP/LTD licensed trems were basically Floyd Rose Pros and Schaller 1302 copies with the fine tuners behind the saddles, but made of zinc instead of steel and with iron sustain blocks instead of brass. The lack of saddle bolts sticking out of the back made it easier to fit these bridges in recessed, tight trem cavities. *The closest you can find to the old Floyd Rose Pro is the Floyd Rose 1000 Pro, which has the fine tuners just behind the saddles instead of sticking out far behind the bridge. I have had good experience with the 1000 series and consider them equivalent to OFRs. And you can get 1000s more easily now directly from Floyd Rose.* My own experience retrofitting bridges: *The most important thing is the shape of the route, especially with recessed trem guitars.* Once you find out if your desired bridge fits in the route, *check your nut size.* *Most MIJ guitars in the low to mid tier price range use a shallower R8 nut.* *Schaller does not make an R8 nut, but Floyd Rose does. Schaller 1302s and Floyd Rose R8 nuts mostly work well together save some very slight open string buzzing depending upon the string break angle on the headstock.* *If you go with an R2/R3 nut on an import guitar with an R8 sized nut shelf, chances are your action will be too high at the nut.* You will not always need to replace your import nut, but if it is worn down or does not hold tuning with aggressive use, change the nut. A string retainer like those found on LTDs helps hold tuning if it is adjusted fairly close to the headstock. My Jacksons without string trees/retainers do not hold tune as well. *On a 10-16" Schaller put on a 12"-16" neck, you may have to shim the outer strings slightly to get all strings to be the same height. I have grown use to the slight arch of 10" because it makes barre chords and bending easier down low. It also helps me find the low and high strings when I am not looking at my hand because the outer strings are lower than the other strings.* *Most of the time, the Schaller 1302 should fit on the skinnier import bridge posts just fine. You do not need to re-drill larger holes for thicker Schaller bridge studs and posts.* *You do not have to change your import spring claw, although the heavier materials in the Schaller version will make the guitar slightly more resonant. But you will have to drill larger screw holes and reset your claw from scratch. I do not think the tone gain from a heavier spring claw is worth the effort.* *Be careful when swapping quality components from OFRs and Schallers into licensed imports. Often the imports have smaller parts and things like the saddle blocks or saddles themselves will not fit the import bridge.* *Where I mildly disagree with the video* : If you want to do flutter tricks like Slayer, Randy Rhodes, and Alexi Laiho, assuming you don't have a Kahler bridge, *it is good to have a heavier sustain block because it creates a counterbalance, allowing the bridge to pivot rapidly and warble. The hardness of quality knife edges also helps. Soft zinc edges will not permit very much flutter.* *As far as sustain block size, for shallower body guitars, 32mm is usually fine. If you go larger than this, the block will have restricted movement and you will not be able to put the cover back on the spring claw cavity. Also, the larger and heavier the block becomes, the harder it is too move smoothly.* Where expensive tone metals are a ripoff is in heavy metal we want a bright tone and tight bottom end for fast picking, anyway. *Adding more mass to your bridge and sustain block just makes the bottom end looser, low frequencies you will have to roll off in the mix. A small brass sustain block is just enough mass to permit flutter while allowing smooth motion of the bridge. Brass is also cheaper than titanium, stone, and other exotic materials.* *The biggest difference between steel and cast zinc baseplates is tone. The Schaller 1302 sounds a little warmer than my OFR, which has a brighter, more metallic sound. The Schaller sounds a little more natural--like slightly broken in strings--whereas the OFR sounds like new strings. I prefer the Schaller.* *Where Ibanez is a ripoff and why I do not use their guitars very much* : Ibanez makes fine guitars. I have a parlor acoustic, many basses, and a few tune-o-matic bridge guitars of theirs. *But their floating bridge guitars are not a good value.* As the video demonstrated, the *Original Edge is not made of the best materials, but Ibanez still charges you $300 for an Original Edge bridge.* Used Original Edge bridges are still expensive even on the used market, and they may be beat up. You cannot replace the knife edges, even on an Original Edge. Ibanez is also the Apple of the guitar world. They make their bridge routes proprietary, making it difficult to upgrade their cheap guitars with anything besides an Ibanez bridge. Since many of the non-Original Edge trems are somewhat bad, one must upgrade, but *it becomes very difficult to make a quality partscaster out of a cheap Ibanez.* Ibanez makes it very difficult to know what non-Ibanez aftermarket bridge will fit their guitar models, and this often changes from year to year and model to model to the point that the Ibanez forums have made a chart for retrofitting bridges. Sometimes the routes for even the same model change depending on if Ibanez changed where the guitar was manufactured (Korea vs. Japan vs. Indonesia, etc.). *Ibanez does this on purpose so you will be forced to buy their upper end guitars if you want a quality instrument in terms of pickups and hardware.* *Meanwhile, you can slap an OFR, Schaller, or Gotoh on a Jackson, BC Rich, or ESP LTD and call it a day.* These bridges *may* fit an Ibanez. But chances are you will have to do some wood routing if the trem as recessed. *People say a Gotoh 1996t will fit Ibanez guitars every time. It will not.* If you buy a Joe Satriani JS100, the Gotoh 1996t will fit the route, but you will have to buy shorter saddle screws if you want to do pull ups while detuned with the guitar properly intonated and the saddle bolts fully extended out the back. *My advice: skip floating bridge Ibanez guitars unless you know your bridge will fit. Their real value is in their basses and fixed bridge guitars.* Hope this helps.
Titanium harder than steel, but heavier? You've got that backwards! Those with machining experience may correct me here, but I believe Titanium is milled using tungsten steel bits because, well, the steel is obviously a harder material. The advantages of titanium alloys (and it's always an alloy of some sort) are corrosion, heat and chemical resistance, and a very high tensile strength to weight ratio. Tensile strength is not the same as hardness or wear resistance. Unless you're obsessed with weight (in which case why are you adding a chunk of metal to your guitar?) the only reason I can think of for spending the extra on titanium parts is if you have particularly corrosive sweat. When steel corrodes, the oxidised layer is difficult to remove and will require chemical treatment to remove completely, in which case it will require plating or painting to stop the same thing happening again in short order - you might as well buy a new bridge. If your parts are natural titanium (non anodised) then not only will it resist visible corrosion better than bare/compromised plated/painted steel, but when it does show visible corrosion, the white titanium dioxide is so powdery can be wiped off with a dry cloth. Be aware that titanium is notorious for gaulling (corrosion and pitting) when in contact with other metals.
Several reasons here that I respectfully disagree with your premise that only the knife edges and saddles materials matter. 1. The base plate has 24 threaded holes in it. 18 for adjustment to the saddles and 6 more for the fine tuners. (Edge only has 12 saddle holes, plus 6 fine tuners). So making the base plate out of the best material possible: hardened steel is extremely important, so that not only the knife edges, but all those threaded holes never fail. 2. Replaceable knife edges is nothing but clever marketing, to then use cheaper metals; zinc alloys or even pot metal to make the base plate. See #1, when any of those threaded holes fail, which they inevitably will? You're now replacing the entire base plate. 3. The knife edges on an original Floyd Rose simply NEVER wear out. I would surmise that the majority of real, German made Floyd Roses are still in use today, and are not just serviceable, but perfect, as new. I have several myself from the 80's that function as new, with proper maintenance. 4. Players like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani can literally throw away their entire Edge tremolo and install a new unit. I would LOVE to have Steve Vai or his guitar tech weigh in on this, as to how many Steve goes through in a year, I'm betting the number is staggeringly large. The Edge trem is comparable to Kleenex; it's disposable. Made of shamefully cheap pot metal, and the "replaceable" knife edges aren't available. In closing - the German Original Floyd Rose and Gotoh 1996t etc. are the best quality tremolo units produced for the reasons stated above. If you spend the money ONCE, you will have a tremolo bridge that will literally last a lifetime. Conversely, if you want to use a cheaper system, like an Ibanez Edge or a Schaller or a Floyd Rose Special, be prepared to buy replacement parts and/or an entirely new system in just a few years of hard use. Cheap IS expensive in the long run.
@@nikaxeguitar True enough, it's kind of a 'set it and forget it' situation. Although this has never happened to me, I've seen plenty of guys complaining about stripped threads on their Floyd Rose Specials etc. Heck, Ibanez even has removeable plates with the threaded holes for the saddles, anticipating that they will fail?! One last thing, If you remove your trem and transfer it to another guitar, or buy one used, plus maintenance (like adding a big block etc.) you will be removing/ moving your saddles, and you want those threads to hold up. Really enjoy your channel!
When you said Titanium was heavy that's where I knew you were full of shit. Dude, Titanium is one of the lightest and strongest metals available. Can't take you seriously now. Thumbs DOWN.
FUN FACT. Edward. FIRSTFloyd NO ADJUSTMENT Mr Floyd. Ill be back. SECOND ALLEN. Edward. HOW MY GONNA DO THAT ???3rd FINGER ADJUSTMENT. You can't make this stuff up. EDWARD.
Thanks man VALUABLE CONTENT
Appreciate that!!!
One of the things that makes this topic never ending, is the fact that the human species still doesn't know the difference between a trem and a vibrato, let alone metals.
Right?? They’re really vibratos…but the nomenclature is tremolo. So weird.
We can thank C. Leo Fender for this confusion. He never got the two terms right, but instead used them interchangeably. That's why we have tremolo effects in Fender amps (and these really should be called tremolo effects, as they vary the volume of the signal) and also have the famous Stratocaster Synchronized "Tremolo," which we can agree should actually be called a vibrato, since it's a PITCH-changing device! Sometimes I write this stuff in somewhere just to remind myself of the truth!
THIS. I'd blame Leo Fender, but It's guitarists' fault for perpetuating it.
@@domoniquebrooks816 I agree to a certain extent, but I also hold players responsible for learning the ins and outs of their craft. I can't read music, but I do know those two terms. We really should hold Fender and the other big musical equipment manufacturers to account for the misuse of the nomenclature by voting with dollars for properly labeled gear! In other words, we should learn the terms and get them right, and then insist on the same from the makers!
Physics enters the chat.
I’ve been using Floyd’s for over 30yrs and if I have tuning issues the studs have been the issue 90% of the time. A quick and easy fix a lot of people don’t even think about, I’ve seen people go and buy the most expensive trems on the market and not change the studs and can’t figure out why their guitar still won’t stay in tune.
good to know, thanks
I'm a stud....and l change my women weekly...
90% of what I care about is that the knife edges and studs are made of hardened steel or something even more durable, that's the most important part for tuning stability. Stainless steel screws are also a plus.
There's the aspect of longevity that's to me just as important, had cheap trems that aged like raw milk :D
I only use steel Floyds, because they don't wear out as fast. Steel saddles only matter acoustically as far as I am concerned. I doubt whether that is discernable when amplified.
Talking about the zinc alloy baseplates of the Schaller or Edge, I'd add that if someone was to strip out the intonation adjustment screw holes on the zinc alloy baseplates, they'll have to replace the whole baseplate. If those threaded holes strip out, they can't be replaced. Plus, stripping out those holes on a zinc alloy baseplate happens a lot more often than having knife edge issues on hardened steel baseplates.
Personally, I'd take an OFR, FR1000, or Gotoh GE1996T over any other locking tremolo system any day of the week.
You just don't want zinc/pot metal for a few reasons, 1st being clarity, you will get a warm tone with zinc, but not a tight, defined type sound with brilliance and clarity. Like mentioned in the vid, the friction points, like saddles are what I'm talking about.
2nd, they will WEAR OUT ! so if you want something that will get old with you, Zinc will not do ( examples of zinc are Fender trems 1972_ 81, Jackson double locking)
The OFR tremolo is tops, but you need to address the nut and saddles (shims) depending on your neck radius preference.
The 'Tremline' tremolo's coming out of Bulgaria seem to be a VERY exciting option on par with the OFR tremolo.
Schallers locking trem is made of zinc and is probably on more guitars than OFRs
@@nblax41I am fairly sure that Schaller Lockmeister have a hardened steel baseplate. Nothing zinc about that.
Oh wait... you meaning the basic Schaller. The screw holes in those zinc base plates wear out far to fast to be reliable.
Nobody ever described the Ibanez edge and subsequent Ibanez designs as having a "warm" or "muddled" tone!
Yes the string loading part of the saddle is steel and the knife edge plate is hardened steel, but the rest is a zinc alloy.
@@literal_lee
The Lockmeister is indeed all steel and brass construction, but the old Schaller licenced design has a zinc alloy baseplate with hardened steel knife edges pressed into it.
The saddles are the same steel as the Floyd though.
The Lockmeister was a response to the Floyd Rose patents expiring, allowing Schaller to offer what is essentially a Floyd Original, but without FR Industries percentage.
@@pauln6803 I had one of those licensed Schallers on my Gibson MIII and those bolt holes for the saddles wore out very fast. I just read up on the Ibanez edge trem and although it has a potmetal baeplate, it has steel knife edges and inserts for the saddle screws/bolts.
A few addendums 1. titanium is _lighter_ than hardened steel; but its actually more _brittle_ 1.:20 2. There are several variants of the ibanez "edge" tremelo (original, edgepro, edge zero, zr, edge 2, edge 3) etc. like the floyd rose many say the original edge is the best. I have an edge 3 on an rg 330 and its inferior to an edgepro or an og edge.
My Schaller base plate screw hole thread striped out on the high E string, My OFR has never had a problem and there both over 30 years old.
Could you do a Review of the Graphtech Unlock Nut? Also would be cool to see a vid showing off a bunch of Trem upgrades on the same instrument. Things like upgraded saddles, 1 - 2x Göldo Back Box trem stabilisers (NOT trem stoppers), Claw upgrades like the Schaller SureClaw Tremolo Spring Tensioner and noiseless trem springs, Graphtech Unlock Nut and Locking Tuners. Would be great too see how such a suped up trem systems would work, how reliable is the tuning and how easy are string changes and setups.
Titanium is softer than h steel. Read about it
Depends on the grade of titanium
I think one thing you might have overlooked is the saddle blocks. I've had a few over the years that start to "squish " and get stuck in the saddle and can crack the saddle. Unfortunately had it happen lol. I have a few guitars with Floyd Rose originals and 2 with Schaller. I bought an entire Schaller tremolo system and it cost me 750.0 buy the time it got to the house. I'll mention that I'm in Canada so anything we order is ridiculous. The quality is amazing! It is smoother and takes to sensitive playing extremely well. One thing I noticed about both Schallers is they have hardened steel threaded inserts for the saddles. The system I bought was a gold unit I installed on a Peavey V-type exp and the other is on my 1996 Hamer Californian. I've replaced all my saddle blocks with Titanium saddle blocks from Fu-tone and brass big blocks on all my guitars.
@@charlesb7831
Most titanium alloys are softer than steel.
But Ti alloys due tend to have very high tensile strength so are at least unlikely to crack and stick in the saddle like I've seen with Schaller/Floyd steel blocks.
@pauln6803 depends if you getting real Titanium. None of my Titanium blocks even show any marks from the strings, no marring of any kind. Same with any of the Titanium parts on my bikes, always seems to hold up no problem. I've cracked a saddle on a 1989 Floyd Rose original, honestly had more issues with blocks deformity then saddle issues. I know not all Titanium is the same either. I have a Titanium ring that saved my finger from being crushed in a car door. More damage to the door frame then the ring lol.
The one thing I love to do with my trems is get them perfectly set up and then never use them!
Great video! Thanks! 🤘
I'm 3:45 in, and I'm going to tell you that you're absolutely right before I even watch the rest. Those ARE the only points that matter
For the pivots it absolutely matters, the rest not so much
Hell Brandon Ellis plays aluminum locking trems, they just have steel and titanium inserts where it matters
I actually just installed a gotoh 1996t in my jackson dinky. Totally worth the $121.00 I paid for it.
yea I changed it on my Jackson Warrior WR7 and I love it.
Great video!
Gotoh 1995-t is effectively a manufacturer branded Ibanez Edge, very minor tweaks between the two but its more or less the same design with the same materials. Same pop in arm, saddle shape, etc, and its usually under 150 bucks. Best option on the market imo cost to performance ratio
It has a solid hardened steal baseplate. An upgrade from the edge.
In my opinion, the biggest difference you can make is upgrading the saddles to titanium. My schecter with the korean made floyd rose (1500) had an issue with the B string popping out when bending hard and when I pulled out the saddles I found some indents from years of use, upgrading to titanium has got rid of the issue and the tone had a noticable change.
It matters what the knife edges and saddles are made out of.
It matters what your saddles are made of, the pot metal saddles don't tighten very well and easily strip out. Was a mistake buying a cheap ESP with the crap metal tremolo, was a fun playin guitar until the saddles stripped out, that happened in about 3 months. It matters.
That gives me about 3 months to save up for a new trem for my Kramer Pacer Classic😂
I recently upgraded to the revised Lockmeister with radiused saddles and it is supremely superior to the Floyd Rose 1000! Hands down it will not go out of tune under extreme use!
You forgot the most interesting Tremolos - The Kahler Spyder/Killer hat nobody knows how to setup so it gets a bad reputation, the Steeler which is probably the most superior locking tremolo ever made, and IMO the best production tremolo you can buy right now is the Gotoh 1996T should have a shout out at least!
Ibanez does not sell the knife edges for the Edge for a few reasons. 1 - they want you to just buy a new bridge. 2 - Nobody was able to easily get the old ones out of the tremolo and would often damage the soft baseplate doing so. 3 - same goes for installing them, damage to edges or baseplate. The standard procedure know is to deburr them every few years, they should never need replacement. The posts will however, as they are softer metal, as they are in most trems (you cant have hardened steel on hardened steel, it would cause structural problems over time).
One more note is that the Schaller and Gotoh have an interesting resonance quality to them being that they are soft metal. I have around a dozen guitars with various tremolos all on the same guitar rack. Strumming the strings of the German OFR equipped guitars vs. the Edge or Schaller there is a notable loudness. Now, does that translate to the amp when it's being held? Doubtful.
I had a kahler killer on my peavey Vandenberg. It wore out. Stiff. Floyd's are better. Then I had a kahler steeler. Guitar stolen the 2 gig😢
@@bruceniblett959 They are more stiff, notably so. Worse for flutters, but more stable for everything else. Really comes down to playstyle, most people do not flutter at all. Thats a real bummer, the Steelers are legendary, some pro guitarists have a stockpile of them and put them on all of their guitars (Nuno is one of them)
@KH-id2hr yeah. I had mine in the 90s and I loved Eddie and Vai. So I wore out the killer. It stopped staying in tune. The Steeler was the best. Im sure the new Steeler is amazing but too expensive. The Steeler I got in 1994 was like $a lot. The Vega looks cool
there is diehard Kahler guys out there, I do not think I have ever tried one, I knew a guy that only wanted Charvel/Jackson guitars that came with Kahlers
What about the gotoh FR?
Thanks for video. Very good watch. However. You didn't mention the gotoh 1996. I'm quite familiar with ibanez edge and lo pro. Absolutely great bridges. I recently tried a gotoh in my ibanez j witch came with a lo pro. I noticed more clarity, more resonance and overall a sturdier more solid feel. There's a long story about Floydrose pattent wich explains a lot about why bridges are made like they are thar I won't get into here. Anyway, gotoh combines the best aspects of an edge (deeper posts with locking mechanism) and the best part of the ofr. Solid hardened steal base plate. I hope you do a video dedicated to this Pinnacle of floating bridge designs. Also, one thing about the edge and lo pro. The finish wears very easily if you palmemute or rest your hand on them in any way. Purely cosmetics, but still. No wear at all on my gotoh. Plus. The gotoh is dirt cheap! 😊 One last thing. You must acknowledge that Steve vai and Joe are ibanez "artists" of course they use an edge.
It's in the player themselves.
I would suggest this, read the liner notes in equipment from players, example, Maiden live after death, Rockinger tremolos used, when is the last time you used one? Well Adrian made it sound good. Kahler trem, Kerry King made those sound good, Standard Fender trems, all the greats made those sound good.
Floyd's doesn't matter what one, they all are really good, proper set up, neck set up and level frets make the difference for a player that can actually really play.
I prefer a Floyd because it's what I learned on and I love the feel, same with standard Gibson bridge system.
Gibson, Jackson/Charvel and Schecter for me are the business and nothing tops them.
Wild card guitar, Sammy Duet SD-2 why ? Because it's a beast, just look at it! Plus has a Floyd with great hardware used.
Gotoh Japan makes great hardware too, so does Schaller.😊 Bottom line unless you're in the studio cutting an album, or touring then maybe alloys and durability will stand up to the abuse, i think its marginal in some cases with certian things, yeah absolutely different alloys carry unique tone, for sure.
Most people are hobbiests or collectors i would assume.
Strings, good pickups and amp.
I prefer crystal clear chord definition and tones of sustaine, the guitars i play have all of that, but i had to seriously find those and play many that felt and sound good for me.
Its very subjective and personal preference.
My floyds are genuine so i prefer those.
I have preferences too, but if whatever comes on any given guitar works well and does not drain tone, its all good...
hi are the zr ibanez or series 2 and 3 any good?
Jem Jr just entered the chat. nods profusely
Hello there, Do you have a video of edge pro tremolo? i want to see a video regarding this, Please make one!
Working on it!
I don't know about metallurgy, but from what I've come to understand is that harder does not always = stronger.
Is there any merit to this?
I have a fee trem/vibrato equipped guitars. Lowest grade of all these bridges is a Floyd Rose Special. This guitar has a few hundred playing hours on it, knife edges are still in good condition, bit the saddles are already getting indentations from strings. This pisses me off.
Will the new low profile tremolo from floyd rose be released soon?
i have a floyd rose pro, it is low profile, but its several years old
My cousin Yul Suk Dong works in a China steel mill. He says to be weary of cheap Chinese knock off's as the quality is low. He himself is forced to live in mud enclosures near the factory.
Can you do the review of the Gotoh 1996?
I wanted to dispute this but there is real truth here. My example, I have a lot of trem guitars and the vast majority are OFR. Then I have these two, Ibanez UV70P (Universe) and ESP LTD Cult 86. The UV70P came with an Ibanez Edge Zero II-7 bridge. EVERYONE has clowned that bridge at every opportunity but I have beaten the ever-loving hell out of that trem and it does NOT go out of tune. Everyone speculates that it should fail but it doesn’t ever. Like ever. It only has hardened steel in the areas mentioned in this video. The Cult 86 which I bought brand new came with a Floyd Rose Special. I destroyed that tremolo on the very first night of ownership as the strings literally cut grooves into the trem blocks and saddles and it would no longer stay in tune. Why? Becasue the Floyd Rose Special has cheap metal EVERYWHERE. I replaced it with an OFR as per my usual and have had no problems since, however it is actually as reliable and stable as my Edge Zero II-7 in my Ibanez Universe. Also I have a Jackson Soloist Pro from 1990 and the original Jackson branded Schaller trem is still in it and also works just fine with no issues. I wanted to argue, but this video speaks truth. They work if the high quality metal is only where it needs to be.
I sanded all the paint off my Floyd rose and. Noticed it gave a brighter tone.. I don’t regret it.
Ehh, the locking nut screw and the saddle screws need to have quality materials as well, because they will strip. With stainless steel, you can use gorilla strength so that you don't have to worry about the strings popping out, and no matter how much strength you use, it'll be fine. Use too much strength on bad material screws, they're goi6to eventually break.
I’m with you 100% on this, most of my upgrades have been to Gotoh 5 but I also own 5 Ibanez’s with the Pro Edge but you make 100% sense to me here on this topic
*I have never agreed with a video so hard in my life. Guys, listen to Nik. He knows what he is talking about here.*
*I'm a Schaller 1302 guy. It's the official name for the non-Lockmeister.*
The Schaller 1302 is wider and shorter than the OFR and Lockmeister. The 1302 is specifically designed for small, recessed Floyd Rose routes like those found in MIJ and other imported Jacksons, ESPs/LTDs, and BC Riches. Most of my guitars are Jackson Professional and JS guitars from the 90s and 00s that I bought used and upgraded with quality hardware and electronics.
*What makes the Schaller great is, now that the Original Floyd Rose Pro without long saddle bolts has been discontinued, the Schaller is the best FR style trem to fit small recessed routes besides the vintage OFR non-fine tuner version. Even then, the Schaller having removable knife edges means the baseplate's life span is pretty much infinite.*
My Jackson, BC Rich, and ESP/LTD licensed trems were basically Floyd Rose Pros and Schaller 1302 copies with the fine tuners behind the saddles, but made of zinc instead of steel and with iron sustain blocks instead of brass. The lack of saddle bolts sticking out of the back made it easier to fit these bridges in recessed, tight trem cavities.
*The closest you can find to the old Floyd Rose Pro is the Floyd Rose 1000 Pro, which has the fine tuners just behind the saddles instead of sticking out far behind the bridge. I have had good experience with the 1000 series and consider them equivalent to OFRs. And you can get 1000s more easily now directly from Floyd Rose.*
My own experience retrofitting bridges:
*The most important thing is the shape of the route, especially with recessed trem guitars.*
Once you find out if your desired bridge fits in the route, *check your nut size.* *Most MIJ guitars in the low to mid tier price range use a shallower R8 nut.* *Schaller does not make an R8 nut, but Floyd Rose does. Schaller 1302s and Floyd Rose R8 nuts mostly work well together save some very slight open string buzzing depending upon the string break angle on the headstock.*
*If you go with an R2/R3 nut on an import guitar with an R8 sized nut shelf, chances are your action will be too high at the nut.* You will not always need to replace your import nut, but if it is worn down or does not hold tuning with aggressive use, change the nut. A string retainer like those found on LTDs helps hold tuning if it is adjusted fairly close to the headstock. My Jacksons without string trees/retainers do not hold tune as well.
*On a 10-16" Schaller put on a 12"-16" neck, you may have to shim the outer strings slightly to get all strings to be the same height. I have grown use to the slight arch of 10" because it makes barre chords and bending easier down low. It also helps me find the low and high strings when I am not looking at my hand because the outer strings are lower than the other strings.*
*Most of the time, the Schaller 1302 should fit on the skinnier import bridge posts just fine. You do not need to re-drill larger holes for thicker Schaller bridge studs and posts.*
*You do not have to change your import spring claw, although the heavier materials in the Schaller version will make the guitar slightly more resonant. But you will have to drill larger screw holes and reset your claw from scratch. I do not think the tone gain from a heavier spring claw is worth the effort.*
*Be careful when swapping quality components from OFRs and Schallers into licensed imports. Often the imports have smaller parts and things like the saddle blocks or saddles themselves will not fit the import bridge.*
*Where I mildly disagree with the video* :
If you want to do flutter tricks like Slayer, Randy Rhodes, and Alexi Laiho, assuming you don't have a Kahler bridge, *it is good to have a heavier sustain block because it creates a counterbalance, allowing the bridge to pivot rapidly and warble. The hardness of quality knife edges also helps. Soft zinc edges will not permit very much flutter.*
*As far as sustain block size, for shallower body guitars, 32mm is usually fine. If you go larger than this, the block will have restricted movement and you will not be able to put the cover back on the spring claw cavity. Also, the larger and heavier the block becomes, the harder it is too move smoothly.*
Where expensive tone metals are a ripoff is in heavy metal we want a bright tone and tight bottom end for fast picking, anyway. *Adding more mass to your bridge and sustain block just makes the bottom end looser, low frequencies you will have to roll off in the mix. A small brass sustain block is just enough mass to permit flutter while allowing smooth motion of the bridge. Brass is also cheaper than titanium, stone, and other exotic materials.*
*The biggest difference between steel and cast zinc baseplates is tone. The Schaller 1302 sounds a little warmer than my OFR, which has a brighter, more metallic sound. The Schaller sounds a little more natural--like slightly broken in strings--whereas the OFR sounds like new strings. I prefer the Schaller.*
*Where Ibanez is a ripoff and why I do not use their guitars very much* :
Ibanez makes fine guitars. I have a parlor acoustic, many basses, and a few tune-o-matic bridge guitars of theirs. *But their floating bridge guitars are not a good value.*
As the video demonstrated, the *Original Edge is not made of the best materials, but Ibanez still charges you $300 for an Original Edge bridge.* Used Original Edge bridges are still expensive even on the used market, and they may be beat up. You cannot replace the knife edges, even on an Original Edge.
Ibanez is also the Apple of the guitar world. They make their bridge routes proprietary, making it difficult to upgrade their cheap guitars with anything besides an Ibanez bridge. Since many of the non-Original Edge trems are somewhat bad, one must upgrade, but *it becomes very difficult to make a quality partscaster out of a cheap Ibanez.*
Ibanez makes it very difficult to know what non-Ibanez aftermarket bridge will fit their guitar models, and this often changes from year to year and model to model to the point that the Ibanez forums have made a chart for retrofitting bridges. Sometimes the routes for even the same model change depending on if Ibanez changed where the guitar was manufactured (Korea vs. Japan vs. Indonesia, etc.).
*Ibanez does this on purpose so you will be forced to buy their upper end guitars if you want a quality instrument in terms of pickups and hardware.*
*Meanwhile, you can slap an OFR, Schaller, or Gotoh on a Jackson, BC Rich, or ESP LTD and call it a day.* These bridges *may* fit an Ibanez. But chances are you will have to do some wood routing if the trem as recessed.
*People say a Gotoh 1996t will fit Ibanez guitars every time. It will not.* If you buy a Joe Satriani JS100, the Gotoh 1996t will fit the route, but you will have to buy shorter saddle screws if you want to do pull ups while detuned with the guitar properly intonated and the saddle bolts fully extended out the back.
*My advice: skip floating bridge Ibanez guitars unless you know your bridge will fit. Their real value is in their basses and fixed bridge guitars.*
Hope this helps.
Titanium harder than steel, but heavier?
You've got that backwards!
Those with machining experience may correct me here, but I believe Titanium is milled using tungsten steel bits because, well, the steel is obviously a harder material.
The advantages of titanium alloys (and it's always an alloy of some sort) are corrosion, heat and chemical resistance, and a very high tensile strength to weight ratio.
Tensile strength is not the same as hardness or wear resistance.
Unless you're obsessed with weight (in which case why are you adding a chunk of metal to your guitar?) the only reason I can think of for spending the extra on titanium parts is if you have particularly corrosive sweat.
When steel corrodes, the oxidised layer is difficult to remove and will require chemical treatment to remove completely, in which case it will require plating or painting to stop the same thing happening again in short order - you might as well buy a new bridge.
If your parts are natural titanium (non anodised) then not only will it resist visible corrosion better than bare/compromised plated/painted steel, but when it does show visible corrosion, the white titanium dioxide is so powdery can be wiped off with a dry cloth.
Be aware that titanium is notorious for gaulling (corrosion and pitting) when in contact with other metals.
You said titanium is heavy. That doesn’t make sense it is not heavier than steel
if it wobbles and my guitars in tune its good👍
This is the attitude!!
pretty much
Several reasons here that I respectfully disagree with your premise that only the knife edges and saddles materials matter.
1. The base plate has 24 threaded holes in it. 18 for adjustment to the saddles and 6 more for the fine tuners. (Edge only has 12 saddle holes, plus 6 fine tuners). So making the base plate out of the best material possible: hardened steel is extremely important, so that not only the knife edges, but all those threaded holes never fail.
2. Replaceable knife edges is nothing but clever marketing, to then use cheaper metals; zinc alloys or even pot metal to make the base plate. See #1, when any of those threaded holes fail, which they inevitably will? You're now replacing the entire base plate.
3. The knife edges on an original Floyd Rose simply NEVER wear out. I would surmise that the majority of real, German made Floyd Roses are still in use today, and are not just serviceable, but perfect, as new. I have several myself from the 80's that function as new, with proper maintenance.
4. Players like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani can literally throw away their entire Edge tremolo and install a new unit. I would LOVE to have Steve Vai or his guitar tech weigh in on this, as to how many Steve goes through in a year, I'm betting the number is staggeringly large. The Edge trem is comparable to Kleenex; it's disposable. Made of shamefully cheap pot metal, and the "replaceable" knife edges aren't available.
In closing - the German Original Floyd Rose and Gotoh 1996t etc. are the best quality tremolo units produced for the reasons stated above. If you spend the money ONCE, you will have a tremolo bridge that will literally last a lifetime. Conversely, if you want to use a cheaper system, like an Ibanez Edge or a Schaller or a Floyd Rose Special, be prepared to buy replacement parts and/or an entirely new system in just a few years of hard use. Cheap IS expensive in the long run.
Great insight man!! I would counter with…how often are you going to actually take anything off of the baseplate? Seldom to never.
100% facts. If there's any zinc alloy or soft metal on the bridge, it'll either strip/wear out or become brittle and deteriorate over time.
@@nikaxeguitar True enough, it's kind of a 'set it and forget it' situation. Although this has never happened to me, I've seen plenty of guys complaining about stripped threads on their Floyd Rose Specials etc. Heck, Ibanez even has removeable plates with the threaded holes for the saddles, anticipating that they will fail?! One last thing, If you remove your trem and transfer it to another guitar, or buy one used, plus maintenance (like adding a big block etc.) you will be removing/ moving your saddles, and you want those threads to hold up. Really enjoy your channel!
When you said Titanium was heavy that's where I knew you were full of shit.
Dude, Titanium is one of the lightest and strongest metals available.
Can't take you seriously now.
Thumbs DOWN.
lol, I kinda had the same reaction but not as harshly hahahahaha
I hear pot metal trems are best for stoner rock.
titanium is only 70% the density of steel, so no, its not heavy.
Kahler all the way.
Contact points
FUN FACT. Edward. FIRSTFloyd NO ADJUSTMENT Mr Floyd. Ill be back. SECOND ALLEN. Edward. HOW MY GONNA DO THAT ???3rd FINGER ADJUSTMENT. You can't make this stuff up. EDWARD.