Great video Norm! It's silly to think that those controversial games during the 90's sparked such outcry. Especially, when you see how graphic games have become today. Not just in violence, but in overall adult themes as well.
And before uploading, it was rated RP (Rating Pending it's a Rating that game developpers put on a title to say that the contents of the game is not yet rated by ESRB this is used in trailers but you'll never see such rating on an actual game cover.)
I absolutely love that 25 years after Howard Lincoln swore under oath that _"Night Trap would NEVER appear on a Nintendo system"_ ..... *I just bought it on Switch* . Lolz
@@Goldenbane Nintendo was tired of Sega publicly kicking them in the nuts. They used their presence and their pretense of "Higher moral values" to kick back hard during these hearings.
It's kinda crazy to have grown up and watched Nintendo go from squeaky clean to finally realizing (probably begrudgingly) that adults play video games too.
I still have my sega. I remember asking my mom to rent mk2. I was 11. My mom ask me what kind of game it was, I told her it was a fighting game where you can rip people's heads off. She said as long as it doesn't interfere with getting my chores done or my homework It was ok lol. She also understood it was a video game. My parents were awesome.
I remember that my mother got me the GTA V launch edition for my PS3 when it came out. I would have been, what, 13? It was rated 17+. My mother also understood that it was a video game, and knew that I understood that. I still have it, and still occasionally play it when friends come over to our house.
My dad got me the og doom and then became obsessed with the game and hid my genesis in his room just to play it after work But then my mum found out and started an argument and my mum won and gave me my genesis back and returned doom back to the store
Lmao, my dad watched me murder a bunch of hillbilly drug dealers and meth manufacturers in a gta v missian as Trevor and he was fine with it. Edit: Most of the time at least.
@@llSuperSnivyll probably embarrassed his dad caused so much of a stink. Honestly this all just read to me as a Simple case of parents not actually looking at what they buy for thier kids and expecting someone else to do it for them. Christ my dad never gave us any games, comics or films as kids without playing or looking at them first. He didn't need to look at a rating system because HE made the judgment as the Parent Responsible for HIS kids.
Matts Island most parents don’t even know it exists. I sure do though and my kids can’t play any M rated game unless I’ve played it first and deemed it suitable. I let them play stuff like halo, fallout, and Mortal Kombat x.
They just want something to ease their concience as they ignore whats going on. If your kid can't tell the difference between fiction and reality then you've failed them as educators or failed them with your dumbass genes. Why should everyone else pay the price for the ignorance of the world.
I think it's because a lot of people still think video games are exclusively for children. I remember watching a video about the subject of video game violence and the person stated "When parents look at video game developers they don't see artists, they see toy makers who have gone to far."
It's surprising that the video game industry was found to be more responsible for content warnings than the stores that sell them. Books don't carry content warnings and they seem to be fairly well categorized by the stores that sell them.
Technically children's books are categorized by how hard they are to read, not how inappropriate they are. imo there are some books aimed at middle schoolers that many parents would consider a little too dark or violent if they actually knew what was in them. That being said, I get the distinct impression that ratings boards are always the result of panic surrounding a new-ish form of media
Its sad that parents almost never take the blame.......its always someone else, which in part screams bad parenting, control what your kids consume......you are the leader of what they consume, stop blaming entertainment. These laws and restrictions are in place to protect lazy parents that is all.
Yeah, some parents wanna force everyone to bubble wrap the world instead of teaching their own kids on how to deal with the world. If you're not willing to teach your own little rugrat, then don't fricking have them. Personal responsibility is really lacking here.
More excuses for being a lazy parent, it takes me 5 min to look up a game on GOOGLE you know that thing that you can easily use, and find out the rating the content and a video of the game play..........it is already easy, this is just for people who are actually too lazy to sit for 5 min to look up a game their kids want. Also its a cumbersome system to annoy everyone else to appease the lazy parents.
Richard Alcala cumbersome system that prevents you from doing..... it takes 5 seconds to look at the rating which saves 4:55 minutes according to your google estimate. And it gives cover for the industry from “lazy parents” who didn’t look at the ratings. There is simply no excuse for not looking at the ratings. It actually does the thing you say you want. I feel like I’m talking to one of my kids.
Katarzyna Zabinska You mean Parents today: "This is such a violent video game! Hey, honey, you wanna watch daddy blow up some police helicopters, fuck a hooker and shoot her afterward?!"
8 months later. Why would you sell such misogynist video games to boys? These tropes must be banned! Did you not miss the part where guys have been looking at breasts for tens of thousands of years? :C
I still like the camera watching concept and corny acting. It’s a bit punishing for what it’s doing, but it can be fun once you train yourself to play it first and memorize the layout. But yeah it needed more margin for error.
Bill was completely correct - videogames would soon become more and more widely played by older/mature audiences, which is what we're seeing now. Kinda sad that the early 90's was plagued with all of these attacks on gaming/music (parents came after Rock music around the time as well).
The argument dioz made is so broken. Like how about slasher films and how about violence books? You have a responsibility as a parent to actually pay attention to the media you purchase for your child. These kids cant buy games for themselves when they have no job so even if its marketed towards them its the parents fault for actually buying it and than never researching or looking into the content. Also seriously bugs me that the senator looked at the ages of average sega owners and still wants to be like your marketing hardcore to kids. Really? Than why arent they the largest majority of players/owners? Because that's not the focus of our business. Now the rating thing is difficult to cut because some boxes didnt have it some did. But nintendo never had a real rating system and would have super violent games on them as well. (Terminator, Total Recall you have to kill your wife in that one) yet it's all Sega.
@@9r0t0typ3 Our government was busy going after music in the late 80s and tv and video games in the 90s to do their jobs and make our lives better. And now look how fucked up everything is
Ever seen a boomer post where they claim that young people today are sensitive pussies and think 'huh this says alot coming from the same people who complained about video game violence simply because they were lazy ass jacks who didnt want to parent'
Working in retail, it is extremely frustrating to have a parent come up to me as a return for a game that they thought would be okay to play. Even though right BEFORE they can purchase it, we/I ask if it's okay to purchase, and that it's for nobody under 17. To me it's showing either the stereotype for gaming is still alive, or don't understand what is right in front of them.
"ADVISORY: THIS GAME IS NOT FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17." - Stated directly on the box of Conker's Bad Fur Day and yet Grandma bought it for someone.
Also it's weird that they use Lethal Enforcers as example of video games promoting violence/crime even though the game is about a Cop stopping violence/crime.
I'm not sure what moral high ground Nintendo was aiming for. They were selling the Nintendo light gun and shooting at gang members long before Sega. The whole hearing smells like a sham for Nintendo.
@@ognjenmaestro2234 there was a rerelease. didnt know it was on the switch, but almost certainly over PSN and steam. i imagine xbox live must have it too.
@@danielhao5790 That is what I will never get with Americans. Kids are able to work monsters with chainsaws in Doom et al., can replay a full force Taliban insurrection in CnC: Generals, yet Janet Jacksons nip slip was a national tragedy of historic proportions!
Ironically my mom got me vice city right before ABC ran a news story. She saw it and regretted it, but I was able to talk her into pre ordering San Andreas for me. Even took me to the midnight release
1992 was my last year of junior high (9th grade, so equivalent to a US high school freshman) in my case, and to be honest, I don't remember it being nearly as much of an issue in Canada. I'm sure there was coverage of it, but not to the same degree as in the States. In any event, I agree with Norman, self-policing ended up being a good thing, and a far better outcome than government regulation.
I was 7 ... and I remember it as well. I remember having to go to my friend's house to play MK on his SNES because my parents wouldn't allow me to play violent video games on my Genesis.
Before games it was Gangsta Rap, Metal and DnD and then it was Rock n Roll and youth culture, and before that it was comic books and before that? LOL it goes on probably to the beginning of time.
The "My children shouldn't be exposed to violent video games!" argument always confused me. They are your children. You control what comes into your household. Even if they are exposed to violence, your job as a parent, is to program and teach your child. Help them to learn from these moments. Rather than defecting blame "My child did [this] because he saw [that]!".
Parents either forgot or got tricked out of understanding what exactly their job as a parent is in the 90s. They no longer understand their task to be to take a child and turn them into an adult. They have, since then, come to believe that their job is to take a child and turn them into a larger child. It seems that they believe biology takes care of the rest.
***** I don't understand why anyone supposes it is different from books, music, movies, or anything else. Why should games be forced to be labelled in a detailed way so that parents can know at a glance exactly what is in them when none of those other things are? "They're interactive so its different" is completely specious. There is no evidence that interactivity has anything to do with anything. People performing in plays didn't become deadened to violence after acting out murders with the same actions, and against real people. They know they are engaging in fiction. And that is literally the only thing necessary to remove all danger.
True that, it's since "X" usually meant porn, but adult movies that were not about porn (such as clockwork orange) didn't like the stigma. So it's essentially NC-17 = Adult, X = Porn, even though X isn't an official rating anymore.
All this was about was bad parenting. They didn't want to admit that they hadn't paid attention to what their kids were doing. Know what your kids are watching, playing and pay attention to their interests. It was easier then than now, sure, but it can still be done.
James White No, some of it was legitimate. Imagine you are a parent and you buy a game that appears to be appropriate for your child. You take it home and open it and watch the child play the game to find out that it is riddled with violence. You now are stuck with a game that cost you upward of a 100$ and your child can't play it. You'd be pretty mad since there was no easy way of finding out such information. Remember this was before readily available and easily navigated internet. Having a label on the box saying roughly what age group a game is appropriate for isn't a bad thing.
But as mentioned in the video, the ratings only started to manifest *after* the backlash, as was the example given with Night Trap being sold without any ratings anyone could purchase in Walmart and Toys R Us.
James White My parents were blinded by the media wave too. I remember when I was a kid, my mom took my SNES copy of Primal Rage, when there was a news story about violent games, and the name came up. She didn't know anything about it when I got the game. I told her later that it was dinosaurs fighting. She did a 180 and gave me the game back. I guess she felt I wouldn't go out and start spitting fire, biting or roaring at my classmates...
Lol, people reference Night Trap, but have any of you ever even played it? 95% of the game is comic mischief and slapstick at best when you activate the traps. I've watched daytime television in the 90's that had more violence/higher production value. It really does come down to lazy parenting.
And now Night Trap is available on Ps4 and soon to be Nintendo Switch and only rated T for Teen. All this controversy and now it's ok for younger audiences for some reason
Night Trap is much tamer than the standard nowadays and the perspectives change with time. Earthbound used to be K-A (the '90s equivalent to E for Everybody) but for the WiiU rerelease, the rating was changed to T.
Maybe I'm an idiot, and if so I will quickly shut up...but in a weird way, wouldn't that game do the exact opposite of encouraging violence towards women? The point of the game is to defend the woman. Again maybe I'm dumb as rocks but this has been my knee jerk reaction when I watched this and learned about Night Trap.
I remember renting Conker's Bad Fur Day at Blockbuster and the clerk was telling my dad that it was a violent game. But my dad didn't speak English and I just told him he said something else. lol. That was the only time the game rating system almost ruined it for me.
AT-AT HURSTY What I find annoying about “extremely concerned parents” is that they take the esrb ratings too seriously, like not letting their 8 year old kid play an e10+. The esrb rating is more or less a tip or suggestion. If you think your 15 year old can handle a mature rated game, you should let them
Teaze agree!! The first game i played was killer instinct and i was 4.So i've been playing violent games for 19 years and i'm not crazy or want to kill
When I bought GTA Vice City and American Idiot, the clerk wanted my mom, then she insisted on listening to the entire CD first. The same day I got both of them taken away because of bad grades. What a waste of 20 dollars.
FavianTube At this point they were working with Sega, iirc. There was even a proposal for Sony and Sega to make the a console together. This was after Nintendo double crossed Sony. CEO of Sega shot it down say that Sony didn't know anything about making hardware and later (after the PlayStation became the most prominent brand name in gaming) that it was one of the worst blunders in business.
@Peruano ML Twitter is pretty fucking toxic. It's getting right up there with 4chan. At least even people with huge egos get dunked hard on 4chan since everyone loves to shit on assholes on that site. Twitter is terrible because you have high ground moralists who advocate for canceling people who don't deserve it
@Gameplay Videos Naw, I would say Twitter is pretty balanced when it comes to it's political spectrums. Twitter is full of Far Rights and Far Lefts forcing their political views onto people and getting into heated tangiums over it to the point where it becomes insufferable to use the platform, honestly, it's hard to make the claim Twitter is a "SJW Echo chamber" when there's people harassing and belittling those for admitting to being Transgender on Twitter to the point where it's almost impossible to use the plaform without coming out mentally drained.
The common theme I see is lack of parental responsibility. There are weak parents out there that need to take responsibility and be held accountable for what their children do.
I agree. My parents had a simple rule: I could play any game up to T until I demonstrated that I knew what was right and wrong in mature video games. Once I understood not to try things you do in video games in real life, they let me play M games. They did the same thing with TV shows. I think it worked out well and I will have the same rule with my future children.
100% agree. It’s not the job of corporations to parent your children. It’s not the job of the govt to parent your children. It’s the PARENT’S job to parent the children.
Well Howard Lincoln is definitely eating crow, with Night Trap now on Nintendo Switch. I wonder what he has to say about it ... ... though I guess Night Trap being on the Nintendo Switch is a sign that the ESRB is working for the most part. Perhaps a short followup?
Aya Shameimaru I’m sure he’s eating his crow in his retirement yacht somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. He’s very distressed about Night Trap on Switch.
In his defense, it is purely academic that Night Trap is on the Switch. If it weren’t for the fact that we are discussing the ESRB, why would anyone care that a lousy 30 year old game is being offered as a super cheap streaming option?
Lincoln was just doing his job. Making Nintendo blameless in all this. He was an attorney who was paid to defend his client. He could care less about video games. He was just a legal tool for The Big N.
*kid wants an M for mature game* Kid: I WANT IT NOW Mom: Fine *buys game* Mom: Oh my god why is this so violent? Why didn't anyone tell me? Why was this marketed to my kid? I blame you!
Yeah a lot of parents sue game companies for being too violent for their child when... there is a BIG BLACK *BOLD* letter at the bottom left corner of every game box art. Needless to say, those parents lose the case
@Tony Soprano that one thing I've always wonder why is it so hard for parents to see ratings on video games like even my moms sees them and some m rated games she won't let me have, I think that explains all the terrible news stories about video games that are cringeworthy
Mrs. Droz, I don't know how I would feel about someone playing 3 hours of Night Trap, since their's only 1 AND A HALF HOURS OF REAL VIDEO!!!!!!. Excellent stuff as always, Norm. The idea of government involvement in media is something I studied a lot in college, but only briefly did we look at video games. The idea of what is 'obscene' and needs banned is fascinating to me.
Lol. Night Trap was a big deal at the time. I was a kid back then and talked my grandmother into buying me Sega CD simply for Lunar. I'll never forget trying to rent Night Trap. When she saw the cover I was doomed!
As a former retail drone, I wish more people understood why games are rated what they are. Too often do I see parents of pre-teen children with M-rated games, and they don't seem to care even after what that means is explained to them. The video game industry can regulate itself. They can't regulate bad parenting.
Just because they buy the game, doesn't mean they don't understand it. If I had a 12 year old, I wouldn't care if he/she played something like Halo. Not all M games are the same.
Jack Pipsam My experience has suggested otherwise, but that may well be regional differences. There may be some people who buy while understanding, but most of my experience? They neither understand nor would care if they did.
+Jack Pipsam That's very true. I would let my kids play something like Resident Evil but not games like GTA which includes depictions of sex, murder, drugs and other acts that a child shouldn't even be looking at.
@@GamingDelight It doesn't matter if Lincoln left Nintendo. He said Night Trap would NEVER come to a Nintendo console, and it did. Had he said, "As long as I am working with Nintendo, Night Trap will never appear on a Nintendo Console" then yeah it would make sense. But that did not happen so the other person has a point.
Don't be like politicians. Learn from this, and when there is a doubt in your mind about what a child is exposed to in entertainment, just remember one simple word: Context. Children learn fact from fiction when they read a book, or watch a movie, or tell a story, and video games are no different. This is the main thing we should learn when we see an ESRB label.
I just discovered this channel and I love the amount of detail you include in all of our videos. They feel like mini documentaries. You must have gotten A's on all your reports in school.
@Joe Ç I don't know. Lootboxes really are gambling, even if they don't meet very strict definitions of gambling. Gambling is already illegal for children, you can not walk into a casino as a minor but you can gamble with lootboxes. But I might be a bit biased, because I hate lootboxes. I don't think it will turn children into gambling addicts, but children will lose money on them. They will probably learn their lesson at some point but it's still not great.
The ESRB is a hell of a lot more descriptive though. They nearly doubled the amount of ratings (with more being added as time went on, such as E10+) and included a bullet-point list of the content that earned the game that rating. Sega's system didn't do that at all.
@@CaptainCat101 It isn't the ESRB's fault that the parents can't read the black bold text that says M for mature on the box or do their own research. It's the parent's responsibility to know what their child is seeing. If that's too much for them, they shouldn't have a child in the first place.
When I was playing Mortal Kombat as a kid (I was 14, my parents let me play it) I used to run around freezing my friends in ice and then punch their heads off. Then the ESRB told me it was wrong and I stopped doing it. Thank you ESRB for leading me away from a life of crime.
@Ash Kitt Yes, i know Leif Eriksson was there 500 years before Columbus, and that people who originally walked over the landbridge from russia, down Alaska and settled the entire continent had been there since the last ice age. I just used Columbus as an example since he was arguably the most famous one. Point being, certain things in history, or perhaps even most things in history, are inevitable. If not Columbus, then someone else would have done it. If not Einstein, someone else would have come up with the theory of relativity. If not Daimler-Benz, someone else would have invented the car by now. And so on and so on. Someone would surely have come up with a rating system for video games by now, regardless of the existence of Mortal Kombat and kids wanting to buy it.
Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards is a great idea, I still feel some of the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself. Some people really don't care though - I remember waiting in a large queue in my local game store (unsubtley named GAME) with Pokémon OmegaRuby in hand, whilst I notice a young kid wandering around a bit with GTAV, with his mum. Some other kids on another day were talking with their dad, & he was offering them the latest COD at the time. I dunno about you guys but I'm pretty sure the idea is to NOT get caught trying mature games, not let the parents in on it. =S
"Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards, I still feel the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself." Where would a parent be checking the contents of a game in the early 90s?
***** Asking the store clerks (assuming it's a game store & the staff would have some knowledge on the subject) or even trying it out themselves if they are planning to get it for their kids later on as gifts.
egh,I remember my older brother had asked me to get gta vice city stories w/ my dad, and when we went to get it he definitely gave me that look of "you shouldn't be playing this" I felt so uneasy the whole time,though at least we got the game
The ESRB absolves the game/company of any fault once it was instituted. Now it's entirely on the parent if they buy a game they find inappropriate for their child since they can't claim anymore that there "was no way I could've known" because the big "M" on the case tells them what the game contains. It doesn't stop kids from playing games that aren't appropriate for them, it lays the blame on the parent rather than the creator of the game.
So far our youth has been corrupted by: Books (e.g. "The Catcher in the Rye"), Movies (Hays Code), Music (Rock & Roll, Hip hop), Comics ("Seduction of the Innocent"), Board Games (D&D), VHS ("Video Nasties"), Cartoons (Simpsons, Beavis and Butt-Head), Video Games (Mortal Kombat, Doom, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball), and of course, at all times, illegal drugs. Yet most of these moral guardiens never consider the impacts of poverty, parental neglect, over prescribed drugs, alcholic parents, divorce, underfunded schools, bullying, self-esteem parenting, helicopter parenting, unhealthy eating habits, reality TV, or constant morals panics caused by the 24h news cycle.
You know...its actually quite possible for a youth to be corrupted by ANY of the things you mention IF their parents are the type of peoiple (now VERY common) that let the TV, media and school raise their kids and impart their (instead of the parents) values....while I will agree that poor parents, divorce , too much TV and poor diet add to the bad behavior and attitudes of many kids (and also adults) the idea that "poverty" or underfunded schools cause such issues is WRONG- poverty and crime do not always follow the same graph, plenty of ecent hardworking poor people never grew up to be scumbags, while plenty of middle class kids did....the REAL issue is that both parents working leaves kids floating in a moral vacuum.
If Nintendo didnt cancelled their SNES CD ROM, they would have Night Trap too, but since they cancelled and fear that SEGA might overtake them, they just used this lame excuse
Scratch that, why was a five year old PLAYING WITH A LIGHTER!? Now I would personally say that's bad parenting but nope, let's blame 'fictional violence' instead. Taking responsibility? What's that?
You watch Bevis and Butthead until you hear your parents coming and quickly change the channel. So your parents think your watch Little Bear, but your actually watching something more mature.
"How would you like to have a teenage daughter go out on a date with a boy who just played 3 hours of Night Trap?" Well, I'd be glad. He has a sense of humor and it shows that he wants to protect women (which is the goal of the game) rather than objectify them
Maria Thompson while I don’t think Night Trap would turn him into a rapist obviously, the content is sexist and silly. It isn’t some kind of feminist treatise any more than it is a rape simulator. It’s just a bad game from the fmv era
I'd love to see a dedicated video to the history behind PEGI and CERO ratings in Europe and Japan. Also, it upsets me people think it's ok to just not make more adult games.
There isn't a story behind PEGI. They needed a rating system, they asked the countries with the most experience in rating games to make a Europe wide one (UK, Spain and France, UK were the ones mostly behind PEGI). That's it.
Yep. Saw on Facebook today a relative posted about how 18 year olds "enlisted" into WW2 and Vietnam, but today they need "safe spaces." This coming from someone who, when called out for posting racist junk, said she felt threatened and wanted people to leave her alone
DaFro3713 The issue was more about information. Is it really a bad thing to have a label that tells you any content that people might not want for their children on the box?
TV was their kid's baby sitter, then video games became it, now it's video games/cell phones, lool. Shitty parents just don't want to look after their own kids.
Yeah, now parents that actually DO care, can easily see what's in the box. ...Sadly, few do and the ones that were "outraged" on TV back then probably just used it as an excuse for their shitty parenting. Play a game for 5 minutes before leaving your kids to do it, or do you just let your kid download whatever app they want to on their phone? ...Oh. You do. Because the figurative person I'm adressing's a shitty parent. Oh well!
And Senator Joseph Leiberman went down as one of the biggest douchebags in the history of the video game industry. He stood in front of the whole world and said that Night Trap was a disgusting game that was about killing and stalking women and the game was exactly the opposite, it was about defending women from brutal attacks. He obviously never played the game, only saw certain cutscenes and made this claim. The sad part was, nobody called him out on that. Nobody stood up and said "Hey, you have the premise of the game all wrong". He also screwed the pooch on Lethal Enforcers. He claimed that the game rewarded the player with more firepower for committing crimes when the game's objective was exactly the opposite. You played a police officer trying to stop crimes in progress. You were defending the innocent in that game as well, but not one idiot cut him off and corrected him. Too many idiots without a clue arguing on both sides. I remember screaming at the television at these morons making outrageous claims that the games promoted violence when in fact, almost every game they brought to light punished the player for wrong doings and rewarded the player for making the correct moral decisions. So many rich bastards back then who should have been fired from their cosy jobs, for not knowing what the hell they were doing. Leiberman was out to make a name for himself by fighting for the people and those people's rights to not have to raise their own children. Boy did he make a name!
Wow some parts of this were frustrating to watch. And I don't get what was "vague" about Sega's rating system, it actually seemed pretty similar to ESRB ratings. Howard Lincoln comes across as a total brown noser, too.
The US system is vague in that it is informational-only. Here in Germany we have compulsory ratings. (at least for the top-tier 16+ and 18+ categories, the 6 and 12 categories aren't actually binding) If you're 15 and go into the store to buy a 16+ game they aren't allowed to sell it to you. Same for the 18+ games. On top of that we have an index of games that are deemed unsuited for minors. which may only be sold under the counter and may not be advertised for. (which essentially bans these games in Germany) and last but not least we have really banned games that you aren't allowed to sell or import into Germany at all. (Oh, I almost forgot: We also have games which you aren't even allowed to own. Those are typically games where you see lots of Nazi symbols like Wolfenstein)
Bucs - Rays - Bolts Yeah but the ESRB system was and is way more comprehensive than Sega's system which was really vague. Sega basically had E, T, and M ratings, which is half of what is present now. The difference in years is around 4-1 now. Sega's diffference was around 7 years! A lot can happen in 7 years which made Sega's age ratings vague.
I think the thing that made SEGA's rating system vague was the lack of public input. It basically decided itself what category to put games in with no descriptors or consistency. Granted it was new at the time and may have improved but I think the ESRB developing independently was a way better move and does a great job. The commercial pressure to get games rated was a good thing too, but one thing I think failed is that retailers also deny AO rated games which effectively censors gaming in order to succeed commercially. It comes down to cross purposes with the term Adult Only as most games that risk an AO rating aren't pornography but the term is associated with such in the movie industry. I really think they should add an intermediate rating that avoids this mix-up and turn AO to only apply to pornography with 'no artistic merit' as defined for movies. I also remember at the time parents would be easily tricked by their savvy kids that the ratings meant how difficult they were and that continued for a decade or 2 really.... But hopefully now those kids are the parents themselves they actually know what the ratings mean and make informed decisions.
I don't really find it vague as much as I find it a bit too broad. I think PEGI's system of 3+, 6+, 12+, 16+ and finally age of maturity in your country - AKA 18 in Germany e.g - is a tad more precise. The distinction between 16+ and 18+ is SUPERBLY arbitrary though. DMC3? Bah, that's for teens, 16+. Cowadooty? Oh man there's guns in this that aren't shooting demonic monsters that spill more blood than I ever could, yeah that'll be 18+. Incase you don't believe me, here. i.imgur.com/bxw0mZN.png - there's still a LOT of oversights everywhere, but I'm fine with this somewhat more precise rating system. Just 3-13, 13-18 and 18+ is a bit too broad IMO.
Government and Parents in 1993: There is NO room in our society for explicit games. Parents Now: You want GTA V for Christmas? OK. Jan 24 2020 update: Whoa! Thanks for the likes!
So true. One time at a trip to a nearby Game Stop, I've noticed a mother holding on to a copy of a Grand Theft Auto game (problably GTA5) while waiting on line with her son who was clearly a child. He was telling her that that was the game he wanted. I don't know how knowledgeable she was with game ratings or if she even cared, but this is a perfect example of when a parent doesn't do their job as one when it comes to regulating what a child sees, to give them an understanding of what they can and shouldn't be exposed to, and why. At least until a child is old and mature enough to make a decision for themselves as to whether or not to play Teen and/or Mature-rated games.
@no name There was always that one kid with super strict parents, but for the vast majority you are right. Most of us still grew up to be normal. I think I don't know a single man who doesn't or at least didn't play some violent games, but not a single one who I know became a murderer or rapist.
you have a Ken burns style that's refreshing in a industry heavy with profanity and obligatory toilet humor. Great content! subbed. ps, waiting on a feature length documentary. lol.
Personally, I'm eternally grateful to the formation of the ESRB. Thanks to them, Nintendo no longer restricted content for games licensed for their consoles and Mortal Kombat II was an almost flawless arcade port with all of the blood, guts, gore and Fatalities completely intact (no codes or Game Genie required). If things had remained as they were before the ESRB, we likely would've had yet another neutered version like what we got with MKI, which, while graphically superior to the Genesis port (due to the differences between the older Genesis hardware's capabilities and those of the newer SNES with its larger color pallet), was a far cry from the graphic violence enjoyed in the arcade original. One positive of this however, was that Midway took inspiration from the more ice themed Fatality given to Sub-Zero in the SNES port of MKI and gave us similar "Deep Freeze" shatter Fatalities for that character in virtually all future iterations of the franchise in which that character appeared, including Mortal Kombat II (though it wasn't just chunks of ice that exploded onto the screen when he finished his opponents, of course).
Everything has a silver lining. The ESRB also proves that parents never take the blame. Ever. Even after a bunch of senators went out of their way to put the rating system in place, they still blame video games for crap like school shootings. It's ridiculous.
I was a teen during this time, and I HATED this whole moral panic. The whole "Contract With America" era had a lot of people acting silly; this business over video games made me aware of Joe Lieberman for the first time; I despised him ever since. As I got older, I found much more reasons for that feeling beyond video games. My friends and I used to make fun of Sega's rating system back then, and even used to call Night Trap "Night Crap". But Nintendo really looked like some chumps here, really. Nintendo, after all that blustering, caved, because Mortal Kombat II was released in "uncensored" format (though, games like Primal Rage ended up being censored versus the arcade game on which it was based), which made them look even more ridiculous. But hey, at least they could compete with Sega this time around and rake in the profits. Though ultimately this development allowed (console) video games to evolve outside of the confines of the "family friendly" constraints imposed on it by Nintendo's success in the 1980s (partly to protect the business from an Atari-like implosion), I still have a lot of dislike for the fact it went all the way to the U.S. government. Rare is it that Congress turns out something beneficial to the public on purpose following such a panic-driven response; that the industry ended up to make better product as a result is purely coincidental.
Mortal Combat on Genesis not only had blood. It also had a much more consistent framerate. The SNES port often hovevered between 20 and 30 while the Geneis one was a stable 30.
When Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate in 2000, well I knew at that point what ticket I wasn't voting for. People blame young people voting for Nader in 2000 spoiling the election, but Joe Lieberman moral panic over video games lost the election.
And yet, people still complain about the video game industry without even paying any attention at all to the ESRB. I've seen people go "why do games say rated M for mature on them? is it just to look cool?" _Yeah._ Even worse, this: At Gamestop Man picks up Call of Duty: Modern $ellout XXXbox 666 edition (I'm a Nintendo fan) Man: I'd like to buy this for my son. Gamestop employee: Okay, are you fine with your child playing a game that is rated M for mature? That's 17+ by the way. Man: Yeah, sure that's fine, my 9 year old son is fine with that. Man gets home Man sees violent game Man complains about it
I remember back in early 2011, this woman was buying CoD Black Ops with her son. EG games guy: You are aware that this game is pretty a violent one that shows a war, right? Woman: I don't mind him playing violent games... But wgat kind of war? EB games guy: This game takes place during the cold war. Woman: So you kill humans then? Guy: Yes. Woman, to son: I told you, son, I will only allow you to play games where you don't kill humans. Guy: well, in that case, may I suggest this game? (Pulls out a copy of Halo Reach) this is the same kind of game, except you shoot aliens instead. And despite the game getting that same M rating, it's less graphic than Call of Duty. Woman: So you don't shoot humans at all? Guy: Well, in Multiplayer, you might have to, but during the story the main goal is to shoot aliens. Woman, to son: Ok, I will accept to buy this game if you want it. As the man said, you still shoot, but aliens instead. Kid: Yes, I want that game. Thanks mommy! =)
BaBooTube Videos Nintendo almost fucked the industry with their hatred on SEGA with the ratings system and you're still a fan? Did you watch the video?
Though portraying women in constant need of rescue is problematic in its own right, if only Anita sorkeesian didn't make a mess of that talking point. And no making link a woman so he and Zelda can be lesbian lovers is not the answer, it'll just replace on problem with two or three more
Growing up an avid fan of the artform of video games, I always knew "of" the mob of loud parents who were angry about violence in them. But I never gave them much thought, I figured they were just alarmists who knew on some level that their concerns were nebulous. But this video actually evoked some compassion in me for those first-concerned people. While we all know now the jury is out: violence in North America consistently decreased while violence in video games grew more prevalent, people back then didn't have any way of knowing if these mediums actually changed behavior. They didn't have the benefit of hindsight or vigorous research on the subject. So while I still don't see any credibility with people aligned in that same position today (since again, the jury is out) I have a bit of a soft spot for those initially concerned.
It's easy to look back in hindsight and laugh at the actions towards the latest new thing, but we should remember that new things change society sometimes.
Hey Mr Historian!! First off I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!! I often rewatch them and let the ads play just to show my support. I can tell by your views that you were definitely meant to do this. You’re very relatable and I find we’re all relatable, us gamers. Thanks for these awesome videos!!
***** Poor guy was basically ahead of his time, at least when compared to the rest of the people on the council. Now a days, I think most people agree with him. Gamers are a recognizable community of young and old and I'm pretty sure they would not let this bad mouthing slide as easily as it did back then.
Why did this thread turn into anime. I don't care if you think I'm a weeb, I can't stop you from thinking that and don't really give a fuck, but you're pathetic to bring it up when the only thing mentioning it is my profile picture. Talk about what I'm speaking of, because you calling me a weeb is similar to butting into a conversation to say someone's shirt is gross or something. Would you do that in public? No, you socially awkward degenerate. Addressing, TheGameRage1, I know about the SJW and hipsters, I honestly thought about them while writing my comment. However, the gaming community today fights those fuckers, unlike back then. Gamers will stand against the bullshit in the Gaming community. The biggest example of it was GamerGate, even though SJW made it out to be a hate group of misogynists, when they were really fighting against shitty journalist, specifically in gaming.
It's cute watching people get angry when others point out that their behavior and toys can have a negative influence and that you don't live in a social vacuum.
Judge: "Did you actually play Night trap?" senator: "Uh? no" Judge: "and you want me to change the ratings due to your poor judgement?" Senator: "yes" Judge: "No" *later* Supreme court: "yes!"
Ya, pre-Code comics were so much better than this garbage DC, Marvel, etc. stuff nowadays anyway. Too them decades to make decent stuff again like Walking Dead and The Boys.
didn't they change presidents or something like that? i really can't keep up with it but... it was hurting sales without blood so of course they going to allow it
I love the ESRB. Informative and uselful. Also has the added benift of using it as a defense against parents who can't read good and pin the rightful blame on parents by developers. Tasty double edge sword.
My few issues with ESRB is that 1:Mario Oddessey and Kirby star allies are rated the same as SSBU 2:a rating for 17 year old then 18 year olds 3:the gap between E and E10+ is to big (7 years)
@Frost Aurora Fantasy violence is still violence. The rating on the box is just a letter though. Likewise games can be rated much higher despite no violence at all. It's impossible to look at the rating and discern whether the game has violence or not, and what the actual problematic content is and how severe it is. There's no standardization. E, E10, T, M games can all be non-violent, or filled with violence. Which makes the ratings absolutely useless.
Because back in the day that type of content wasn't too spread back in they day. Mortal Kombat was seen as a terrible influence. Nowadays violence is pop culture
Yep. Dungeons and Dragons was Satan's game! Satan, the prince of lies, the epitome of all evil, the most vile, treacherous, murderous, rapey, and hatefilled being to ever exist...wanted people to play a game where the overwhelming vast majority of the time the whole point was kicking the shit out of evil creatures and saving the princess/kingdom/world/whatever. Not sure why Satan wants to sponsor games, books, and movies where he and his minions are made to look stupid, weak, cowardly, worthless, and easily beatable, but I guess he's just wacky like that.
The frustating thing on Sega's end wasn't just that Nintendo violently threw them under the bus as much as possible, but their rating system isn't far off from what TV and Movies ended up adapting. The only difference is they put "MA-13" rather than "PG-13"
Yeah that point confused me. The guy that kept badgering Sega about the use of the word "mature." Like, shut-up and stop wasting time debating semantics, there are bigger fish to fry.
@@pufflepoint the way he went about making the point too by saying "Are you kidding me??" with the fake outraged politician voice. Dude was just trying to impress his voters and supporters by looking no nonsense. Instead, he looks like a fuckin tool
I love how Sega and Nintendo turned the whole thing into a government sponsered infomercial. "You will never see Night Trap on the Super Nintendo, which has many family friendly games such as Super Mario World and Pilotwings." "That's because the Super Nintendo doesn't have the Sega CD. Only the Genesis has the Sega CD, which is for the cool teens and adults and has games such as the Terminator and Corpse Killer."
Watching these types of hearings will always enrage me. Legislators often know nothing about what they intend to regulate and I despise how they talk down to fellow citizens.
@@cyb3rDraculnot really. After the Cold War the conventional knowledge was that we had entered a new age of worldwide peace. That was what it felt like in America. Of course that wasn’t actually true. There was violence across the world. But Americans didn’t know or care as that went against the narrative that we defeated evil when we won the Cold War. Either way, this illusion of peace vanished on 9/11.
Thats a pretty accurate video, I just wish theyd improve it by merging the Mature and Adults only ratings, its too obvious that video game developers will make a game and water down the most violent parts just to get an Mature rating if they end up getting an Adults only rating from the ESRB, but than again, the movie industry does the same thing with the NC 17 ratings and waters it down to get the R rating. I guess everyone wants to have a loophole.
Eh, at this point the more mature the better, as it attracts younglings who buy games because of how brutal they are, not specifically because they like the game's experience it offers. See: All the kids playin' CoD etc.
Sega had less rules and aimed at older people. Nintendo pushed more for family games but Sega was cool with more adult stuff. So it's more of a marking thing. Some games on the Genesis were more adult. Others no so much. Nintendo overall pushed for more kind games and that was fine. Sega dipped into a lot. Look at a lot of Genesis collections out now they often get T because even now all these years later they are seen as more adult. I know T is not to bad but when a lot of Genesis games on a collection get the collection a T rating it does make a point that Genesis games were not all sunshine and rainbows.
That's different, I am a libertarian, but I didn't dislike the video because of it telling a governments history. That's like if I go to a bar and I don't like them because they serve Budweiser, but they also serve hundreds of other beverages that I thoroughly enjoy.
This video is rated E for Everyone.
Hope you enjoy it!
Crossing my fingers for the unrated cut or do I need to enter a code to unlock
Great video Norm! It's silly to think that those controversial games during the 90's sparked such outcry. Especially, when you see how graphic games have become today. Not just in violence, but in overall adult themes as well.
YES! Thank you Norm! I was so eager to hear what happened
And before uploading, it was rated RP (Rating Pending it's a Rating that game developpers put on a title to say that the contents of the game is not yet rated by ESRB this is used in trailers but you'll never see such rating on an actual game cover.)
Hey buddy. Great seeing you at a video game con and a sneak peek at this video. Great stuff.
I absolutely love that 25 years after Howard Lincoln swore under oath that _"Night Trap would NEVER appear on a Nintendo system"_ ..... *I just bought it on Switch* .
Lolz
Wonder if Howard like the taste of crow.
Howard was a real piece of shit here.
@@Goldenbane Nintendo was tired of Sega publicly kicking them in the nuts. They used their presence and their pretense of "Higher moral values" to kick back hard during these hearings.
@@PANZERFAUST90 nothing wring with being gay. but he is a ass
It's kinda crazy to have grown up and watched Nintendo go from squeaky clean to finally realizing (probably begrudgingly) that adults play video games too.
I still have my sega. I remember asking my mom to rent mk2. I was 11. My mom ask me what kind of game it was, I told her it was a fighting game where you can rip people's heads off. She said as long as it doesn't interfere with getting my chores done or my homework It was ok lol. She also understood it was a video game. My parents were awesome.
nice... but did your parents supervise you while playing? just curious. :/
@@treemannick2969 no but I did play in thr livingroom at that time.
I remember that my mother got me the GTA V launch edition for my PS3 when it came out. I would have been, what, 13? It was rated 17+. My mother also understood that it was a video game, and knew that I understood that. I still have it, and still occasionally play it when friends come over to our house.
My dad got me the og doom and then became obsessed with the game and hid my genesis in his room just to play it after work
But then my mum found out and started an argument and my mum won and gave me my genesis back and returned doom back to the store
@@nerymuniz6427 lol, that's really funny.
"Many Games featured scenarios which Women are kidnapped,"
Mario: Tell me about it!
Zelda too
@@sophiaseth2769 agreed🤝
Ghosts and goblins as well
@@thundageon5962 with the game starting with hero having sex with his girl, in the graveyard ....
Yeah
Nintendo: I know we're guilty but Sega is MORE guilty. So attack them and not us.
Nintendo: Games are just toys
@robert
All game consoles are toys.
John Ralph aww come on man, its not the time or the place for that...
Poor Sega
Nintendo snitching lol. although Sega did F up by not keeping it lowkey I still got love for Sega
I assume the kid that asked his dad for Mortal Kombat was like:
"Damm dad, a simple "no" would have been enough"
Lmao, my dad watched me murder a bunch of hillbilly drug dealers and meth manufacturers in a gta v missian as Trevor and he was fine with it.
Edit: Most of the time at least.
I wonder what that kid now thinks when he sees a game rating.
@@louise6093 i think some ppl need to seperate video games and real life.
@@llSuperSnivyll probably embarrassed his dad caused so much of a stink.
Honestly this all just read to me as a Simple case of parents not actually looking at what they buy for thier kids and expecting someone else to do it for them.
Christ my dad never gave us any games, comics or films as kids without playing or looking at them first. He didn't need to look at a rating system because HE made the judgment as the Parent Responsible for HIS kids.
IKR? At least I can valiantly take no for an answer!
Senators bring in ESRB in 1994.
Parents still ignore it in 2018.
Welcome to the world...
Matts Island most parents don’t even know it exists. I sure do though and my kids can’t play any M rated game unless I’ve played it first and deemed it suitable. I let them play stuff like halo, fallout, and Mortal Kombat x.
Matts Island they pay attention to it, mine do
They just want something to ease their concience as they ignore whats going on. If your kid can't tell the difference between fiction and reality then you've failed them as educators or failed them with your dumbass genes. Why should everyone else pay the price for the ignorance of the world.
Parents? I remember buying GTA3 in a store when I was 9 or 10 i think.
I think it's because a lot of people still think video games are exclusively for children. I remember watching a video about the subject of video game violence and the person stated "When parents look at video game developers they don't see artists, they see toy makers who have gone to far."
It's surprising that the video game industry was found to be more responsible for content warnings than the stores that sell them. Books don't carry content warnings and they seem to be fairly well categorized by the stores that sell them.
Technically children's books are categorized by how hard they are to read, not how inappropriate they are. imo there are some books aimed at middle schoolers that many parents would consider a little too dark or violent if they actually knew what was in them. That being said, I get the distinct impression that ratings boards are always the result of panic surrounding a new-ish form of media
I assume it was easier to go after a few publishers rather than thousands of retailers
whats sad is that the ESRB is far more organized and thought out than the mpaa and the tv rating system today
The MPAA and TV ratings have always been a mess since the ‘80s.
people barely watch TV now anyway
but yea movies and such are still behind
R.I.P cable TV.
Raiders of the lost ark is rated pg even though there are some violent scenes
@@TooCooFoYou There weren’t any tv ratings until the mid 90’s AFTER the ESRB was established.
Its sad that parents almost never take the blame.......its always someone else, which in part screams bad parenting, control what your kids consume......you are the leader of what they consume, stop blaming entertainment. These laws and restrictions are in place to protect lazy parents that is all.
Yeah, some parents wanna force everyone to bubble wrap the world instead of teaching their own kids on how to deal with the world. If you're not willing to teach your own little rugrat, then don't fricking have them. Personal responsibility is really lacking here.
Richard Alcala it gives parents a quick and easy way to figure out what’s in a game. Being a parent is hard... I think the out come of this is great
More excuses for being a lazy parent, it takes me 5 min to look up a game on GOOGLE you know that thing that you can easily use, and find out the rating the content and a video of the game play..........it is already easy, this is just for people who are actually too lazy to sit for 5 min to look up a game their kids want. Also its a cumbersome system to annoy everyone else to appease the lazy parents.
Jp Prater exactly.....
Richard Alcala cumbersome system that prevents you from doing..... it takes 5 seconds to look at the rating which saves 4:55 minutes according to your google estimate. And it gives cover for the industry from “lazy parents” who didn’t look at the ratings.
There is simply no excuse for not looking at the ratings. It actually does the thing you say you want. I feel like I’m talking to one of my kids.
Parents nowadays: "Why would you sell such violent video games to children?? This game needs to be banned!"
Do you not see the giant "M" rating?
Maybe they just assumed 'Mature' means that the game is very old. /s
Katarzyna Zabinska You mean Parents today: "This is such a violent video game! Hey, honey, you wanna watch daddy blow up some police helicopters, fuck a hooker and shoot her afterward?!"
I think it might have been worse under Sega's old system which had "NOT SUITABLE FOR MINORS" right under it
8 months later. Why would you sell such misogynist video games to boys? These tropes must be banned!
Did you not miss the part where guys have been looking at breasts for tens of thousands of years? :C
Fear The Old Blood "This game has ripened"
Ironically, this is literally the only reason Night Trap is still popular/notable
I still like the camera watching concept and corny acting. It’s a bit punishing for what it’s doing, but it can be fun once you train yourself to play it first and memorize the layout. But yeah it needed more margin for error.
Bill was completely correct - videogames would soon become more and more widely played by older/mature audiences, which is what we're seeing now.
Kinda sad that the early 90's was plagued with all of these attacks on gaming/music (parents came after Rock music around the time as well).
The argument dioz made is so broken. Like how about slasher films and how about violence books? You have a responsibility as a parent to actually pay attention to the media you purchase for your child. These kids cant buy games for themselves when they have no job so even if its marketed towards them its the parents fault for actually buying it and than never researching or looking into the content. Also seriously bugs me that the senator looked at the ages of average sega owners and still wants to be like your marketing hardcore to kids. Really? Than why arent they the largest majority of players/owners? Because that's not the focus of our business. Now the rating thing is difficult to cut because some boxes didnt have it some did. But nintendo never had a real rating system and would have super violent games on them as well. (Terminator, Total Recall you have to kill your wife in that one) yet it's all Sega.
Like how grown men play paw patrol on Xbox one
@@9r0t0typ3 Our government was busy going after music in the late 80s and tv and video games in the 90s to do their jobs and make our lives better. And now look how fucked up everything is
@@9r0t0typ3 hell sega actually had their own rating system at the time for kids and adults yet Nintendo tried to throw them under the bus.
Ever seen a boomer post where they claim that young people today are sensitive pussies and think 'huh this says alot coming from the same people who complained about video game violence simply because they were lazy ass jacks who didnt want to parent'
“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”
― Andrew Smith
I learned that quote from Nas...Hate Me Now ft. Puff Daddy
People also often fear what they understand well and hate what they might conquer, because it's reasonable to do so.
So true
Well quoted
Every cod 4 campaign death screen XD
Working in retail, it is extremely frustrating to have a parent come up to me as a return for a game that they thought would be okay to play. Even though right BEFORE they can purchase it, we/I ask if it's okay to purchase, and that it's for nobody under 17. To me it's showing either the stereotype for gaming is still alive, or don't understand what is right in front of them.
Chris Shriver I wish parents did research
"ADVISORY: THIS GAME IS NOT FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17." - Stated directly on the box of Conker's Bad Fur Day and yet Grandma bought it for someone.
Not sure. Probably both, it seems.
I’d love to know what parents expected when buying “mortal kombat” and “lethal enforcers” for their children
Also it's weird that they use Lethal Enforcers as example of video games promoting violence/crime even though the game is about a Cop stopping violence/crime.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 yeah that is weird actually
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 I mean, cops commit crime, just legally
What does sega do to annoy you
I'm not sure what moral high ground Nintendo was aiming for. They were selling the Nintendo light gun and shooting at gang members long before Sega. The whole hearing smells like a sham for Nintendo.
Excellent video bubson !
omg its dunkey game man the youtuber!
what are you doing here dunkey
videogamedunkey damn didn’t expect any dunkeys to be in the comments
what the fuck ae you doing outside your channel? BACK IN YOUR ROOM!
this aint the real dunkey man stop playin
Neat. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go play Night Trap on my Nintendo Switch.
rated T!
Rated M!
Rated T for teen
that exists?
@@ognjenmaestro2234 there was a rerelease. didnt know it was on the switch, but almost certainly over PSN and steam. i imagine xbox live must have it too.
Government: *creates esrb* Ha! That will stop them!!
Kid: hey mom, can I get gta?
Mom: sure
ESRB : censored sexual but allow violence,gore and brutal.
you know its american to be free enough to raise your kid as you think is appropriate. the rating system really is for all Karens out there.
@@danielhao5790 That is what I will never get with Americans. Kids are able to work monsters with chainsaws in Doom et al., can replay a full force Taliban insurrection in CnC: Generals, yet Janet Jacksons nip slip was a national tragedy of historic proportions!
@@stedebonnet3151 I already see u comment.
Ironically my mom got me vice city right before ABC ran a news story. She saw it and regretted it, but I was able to talk her into pre ordering San Andreas for me. Even took me to the midnight release
That one kid that made all his friends not able to play mortal kombat anymore because he asked his dad if he can have it and he knew senator lieberman
RIP
from that moment, that kid only needed one chair on his birthday parties
If kids in America at that time knew who that kid was that told their dad, he would be the most hated and bullied kid of all time 😆 🤣.
Don't blame the kid, blame the dad and Lieberman
@@richardarriaga6271 C'mon now, don't leave out Tipper, aka "The Great Humorless One"!
in 1992 I was in my second year in high school. and I remember the controversy around Mortal Kombat
Same, though late elementary school in my case lol.
1992 was my last year of junior high (9th grade, so equivalent to a US high school freshman) in my case, and to be honest, I don't remember it being nearly as much of an issue in Canada. I'm sure there was coverage of it, but not to the same degree as in the States. In any event, I agree with Norman, self-policing ended up being a good thing, and a far better outcome than government regulation.
I was 7 ... and I remember it as well. I remember having to go to my friend's house to play MK on his SNES because my parents wouldn't allow me to play violent video games on my Genesis.
i wasnt evem born lol
Joe Lieberman is a pussy, and no, I won't take it back.
“Mom I want call of duty”
“Shut up ok fine jeez”
“Ma’am this game has gore and-“
“Shut up ok here’s 60 dollars”
“Thanks mom”
I think a lot of people cannot relate to that. Was lucky to finally get an OG Game Boy near the end of its production run.
So true
Thats a cool mom
@@AlexanderSimic I know, she is pretty cool for getting me that Game Boy. ;)
@Radical Conservative And?
Before games it was Gangsta Rap, Metal and DnD and then it was Rock n Roll and youth culture, and before that it was comic books and before that? LOL it goes on probably to the beginning of time.
The wheel was VERY controversial when it was made actually
Books.
And the Internet is next.
Before comic books was prohibition.
Og Fire bad! Fire burn little Trogdor!
“Some male characters are kidnapped, but they’re never rescued by women”
Donkey Kong Country 3: Am I a joke to you?
Super Princess Peach
Those games didn't exist at the time.
*Samus has entered the chat*
This debate was before the game released
"laughs in Super Princess Peach"
The "My children shouldn't be exposed to violent video games!" argument always confused me. They are your children. You control what comes into your household.
Even if they are exposed to violence, your job as a parent, is to program and teach your child. Help them to learn from these moments. Rather than defecting blame "My child did [this] because he saw [that]!".
Yes sadly not every mother gets that.
Parents either forgot or got tricked out of understanding what exactly their job as a parent is in the 90s. They no longer understand their task to be to take a child and turn them into an adult. They have, since then, come to believe that their job is to take a child and turn them into a larger child. It seems that they believe biology takes care of the rest.
***** I don't understand why anyone supposes it is different from books, music, movies, or anything else. Why should games be forced to be labelled in a detailed way so that parents can know at a glance exactly what is in them when none of those other things are? "They're interactive so its different" is completely specious. There is no evidence that interactivity has anything to do with anything. People performing in plays didn't become deadened to violence after acting out murders with the same actions, and against real people. They know they are engaging in fiction. And that is literally the only thing necessary to remove all danger.
You expect parents to supervise they're kids?
BLASPHEMY
I can really agree Tyler Falcon. Since there are people worried about the most moronic and idiotic things.
"Sega's ratings system was vague..."
PG, PG-13, R
How can anyone hope to follow such a vague, busted system?
Dont forget G which implies you're safe to leave your kids alone in public at a movie theatre
movies dont really get NC17 ratings, less than there are G movies for sure
SP33DBALL Rated X was replaced with NC-17.
True that, it's since "X" usually meant porn, but adult movies that were not about porn (such as clockwork orange) didn't like the stigma. So it's essentially NC-17 = Adult, X = Porn, even though X isn't an official rating anymore.
Didn’t need a rating system. I was raised by the good ole ass whooping.
All this was about was bad parenting. They didn't want to admit that they hadn't paid attention to what their kids were doing. Know what your kids are watching, playing and pay attention to their interests. It was easier then than now, sure, but it can still be done.
James White
No, some of it was legitimate. Imagine you are a parent and you buy a game that appears to be appropriate for your child. You take it home and open it and watch the child play the game to find out that it is riddled with violence. You now are stuck with a game that cost you upward of a 100$ and your child can't play it. You'd be pretty mad since there was no easy way of finding out such information. Remember this was before readily available and easily navigated internet. Having a label on the box saying roughly what age group a game is appropriate for isn't a bad thing.
There was always a back of the box, and games that lead the march for ratings clearly mentioned the violence there.
But as mentioned in the video, the ratings only started to manifest *after* the backlash, as was the example given with Night Trap being sold without any ratings anyone could purchase in Walmart and Toys R Us.
James White My parents were blinded by the media wave too. I remember when I was a kid, my mom took my SNES copy of Primal Rage, when there was a news story about violent games, and the name came up. She didn't know anything about it when I got the game. I told her later that it was dinosaurs fighting. She did a 180 and gave me the game back. I guess she felt I wouldn't go out and start spitting fire, biting or roaring at my classmates...
Lol, people reference Night Trap, but have any of you ever even played it? 95% of the game is comic mischief and slapstick at best when you activate the traps. I've watched daytime television in the 90's that had more violence/higher production value. It really does come down to lazy parenting.
Sen. Lieberman: "I care about our childrens' health and safety!"
Also Sen. Lieberman: *Single-handedly kills the public healthcare option*
"Only we are allowed to hurt you"
Twenty years difference and also Obamacare sucks
PEGI Twelve
Larry! we love when we see you out and about on other peoples channels! stay real man =)
Every damn trailer
'Ello u! :)
Rated Everyone 10 and up
CERO A.
And now Night Trap is available on Ps4 and soon to be Nintendo Switch and only rated T for Teen. All this controversy and now it's ok for younger audiences for some reason
Jimmy Larson The ESRB and FCC have gotten more tolerant over time. Its really visible when you compare horror movies from the 60’s to modern horror.
Night Trap is much tamer than the standard nowadays and the perspectives change with time. Earthbound used to be K-A (the '90s equivalent to E for Everybody) but for the WiiU rerelease, the rating was changed to T.
Maybe I'm an idiot, and if so I will quickly shut up...but in a weird way, wouldn't that game do the exact opposite of encouraging violence towards women? The point of the game is to defend the woman. Again maybe I'm dumb as rocks but this has been my knee jerk reaction when I watched this and learned about Night Trap.
Times have greatly changed, Night Trap is virtually nothing these days compared to so many other things.
Yep...
I remember renting Conker's Bad Fur Day at Blockbuster and the clerk was telling my dad that it was a violent game. But my dad didn't speak English and I just told him he said something else. lol. That was the only time the game rating system almost ruined it for me.
Miguel Carrasco, Jr lmao man I tried that but the employee knew Spanish and burned me haha
4everSolidSnake haha dang that sucks!!!
AT-AT HURSTY What I find annoying about “extremely concerned parents” is that they take the esrb ratings too seriously, like not letting their 8 year old kid play an e10+. The esrb rating is more or less a tip or suggestion. If you think your 15 year old can handle a mature rated game, you should let them
Teaze agree!! The first game i played was killer instinct and i was 4.So i've been playing violent games for 19 years and i'm not crazy or want to kill
When I bought GTA Vice City and American Idiot, the clerk wanted my mom, then she insisted on listening to the entire CD first. The same day I got both of them taken away because of bad grades. What a waste of 20 dollars.
Watching this video again after the news of Joe Lieberman’s passing today
There's a Sony TV during the senate hearing. Sony silently plotting to take both Sega and Nintendo down
FavianTube
At this point they were working with Sega, iirc. There was even a proposal for Sony and Sega to make the a console together. This was after Nintendo double crossed Sony. CEO of Sega shot it down say that Sony didn't know anything about making hardware and later (after the PlayStation became the most prominent brand name in gaming) that it was one of the worst blunders in business.
Your profile pic made me laugh and wake my parents. Thanks.
FavianTube 😂😂omg
Nintendo were a bunch of pricks in the 80s and 90s, I'm glad Sony marginalized them for decades now
"Is" but not "was." 80s Howard Lincoln would give Sony of San Mateo PTSD
I played Duck Hunt and now I'm serving a life sentence
I played mario and now I abuse turtles and take shrooms
@@sophiaseth2769 I played Minecraft and now I fell into lava with my diamonds
No matter what kind of person you are, you tried to shoot the dog.
I played Train Simulator.
And I started a horrific head on collision between two speeding Amtrak trains
I played RollerCoaster Tycoon and...... Actually I think everybody already knows what I did
God. If Howard Lincoln had issued that statement to Sega in this day and age, Twitter would have his head served on a platter
#Dickmove
@Peruano ML Reddit is also pretty SJW.
@Peruano ML Twitter is pretty fucking toxic. It's getting right up there with 4chan. At least even people with huge egos get dunked hard on 4chan since everyone loves to shit on assholes on that site. Twitter is terrible because you have high ground moralists who advocate for canceling people who don't deserve it
@Gameplay Videos Naw, I would say Twitter is pretty balanced when it comes to it's political spectrums.
Twitter is full of Far Rights and Far Lefts forcing their political views onto people and getting into heated tangiums over it to the point where it becomes insufferable to use the platform, honestly, it's hard to make the claim Twitter is a "SJW Echo chamber" when there's people harassing and belittling those for admitting to being Transgender on Twitter to the point where it's almost impossible to use the plaform without coming out mentally drained.
@@DeadHandtheSurvivor your ignorance is astonishing. Twitter IS the left.
The common theme I see is lack of parental responsibility. There are weak parents out there that need to take responsibility and be held accountable for what their children do.
The whole world is full of weak parents. Someone needs to invent the infertility ray before we fuck this planet beyond recognition.
I agree. My parents had a simple rule: I could play any game up to T until I demonstrated that I knew what was right and wrong in mature video games. Once I understood not to try things you do in video games in real life, they let me play M games. They did the same thing with TV shows.
I think it worked out well and I will have the same rule with my future children.
Say it louder!
100% agree. It’s not the job of corporations to parent your children. It’s not the job of the govt to parent your children. It’s the PARENT’S job to parent the children.
True it all stems from doing parental control and monitoring what your kids see or do as a parent that is your job.
Well Howard Lincoln is definitely eating crow, with Night Trap now on Nintendo Switch. I wonder what he has to say about it ...
... though I guess Night Trap being on the Nintendo Switch is a sign that the ESRB is working for the most part. Perhaps a short followup?
In fairness, he is no longer at the position at nintendo nor are we at a point where night trap is considered obscene.
Aya Shameimaru I’m sure he’s eating his crow in his retirement yacht somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. He’s very distressed about Night Trap on Switch.
In his defense, it is purely academic that Night Trap is on the Switch. If it weren’t for the fact that we are discussing the ESRB, why would anyone care that a lousy 30 year old game is being offered as a super cheap streaming option?
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Holy Christians at Nintendo went back on their vow to not carry adult products ever!?!
Lincoln was just doing his job. Making Nintendo blameless in all this. He was an attorney who was paid to defend his client. He could care less about video games. He was just a legal tool for The Big N.
*kid wants an M for mature game*
Kid: I WANT IT NOW
Mom: Fine
*buys game*
Mom: Oh my god why is this so violent? Why didn't anyone tell me? Why was this marketed to my kid? I blame you!
Yeah a lot of parents sue game companies for being too violent for their child when... there is a BIG BLACK *BOLD* letter at the bottom left corner of every game box art. Needless to say, those parents lose the case
@@treemannick2969 50 years after it was introduced, parents still don't understand how the MPAA rating system works.
@Tony Soprano that one thing I've always wonder why is it so hard for parents to see ratings on video games like even my moms sees them and some m rated games she won't let me have, I think that explains all the terrible news stories about video games that are cringeworthy
@Tony Soprano plot twist: you'll be a parent in the future too.
All the Karens are the reason for the controversy.
Mrs. Droz, I don't know how I would feel about someone playing 3 hours of Night Trap, since their's only 1 AND A HALF HOURS OF REAL VIDEO!!!!!!. Excellent stuff as always, Norm. The idea of government involvement in media is something I studied a lot in college, but only briefly did we look at video games. The idea of what is 'obscene' and needs banned is fascinating to me.
They clearly loved it enough to play it twice. I'd be scared.
The 8-Bit Duke she's the original Sarkezian.
the game is notoriously difficult. You have to catch every "vampire" at the correct moment or else you lose.
Yeah and this whole, "The Female being kidnapped." apparently she never played any of the Metroid games did she?
He was right too most games do feature woman being kidnapped. But then again all media did that around that time period too. @Muticere
Meanwhile i'm playing Night Trap on the Nintendo Switch
Lol
Lol. Night Trap was a big deal at the time. I was a kid back then and talked my grandmother into buying me Sega CD simply for Lunar. I'll never forget trying to rent Night Trap. When she saw the cover I was doomed!
I'm 54 years old, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I still fap regularly to Night Trap on my Nintendo Switch. :)
Funny because Nintendo used it to sabotage sega
He was wrong.
As a former retail drone, I wish more people understood why games are rated what they are. Too often do I see parents of pre-teen children with M-rated games, and they don't seem to care even after what that means is explained to them.
The video game industry can regulate itself. They can't regulate bad parenting.
That's up to the parent
my son can play what ever he wants
I was 13 when GTA 2 came out and I love that game
Just because they buy the game, doesn't mean they don't understand it.
If I had a 12 year old, I wouldn't care if he/she played something like Halo. Not all M games are the same.
+Jack Pipsam Exactly. Very well said.
Jack Pipsam My experience has suggested otherwise, but that may well be regional differences.
There may be some people who buy while understanding, but most of my experience? They neither understand nor would care if they did.
+Jack Pipsam That's very true. I would let my kids play something like Resident Evil but not games like GTA which includes depictions of sex, murder, drugs and other acts that a child shouldn't even be looking at.
“Night Trap will never appear on a Nintendo system!”
*cough cough* Night Trap 25th Anniversary For The *Nintendo* Switch *cough cough*
Nick C's Gaming Delight r/wooosh
@@GamingDelight"Night trap will never appear on a Nintendo system."
"never appear on a Nintendo system."
"never appear"
"never"
@@GamingDelight so does the other person's point.
@@GamingDelight They did. The point was Night trap appeared on a Nintendo system when Howard Lincoln said it wouldn't.
@@GamingDelight It doesn't matter if Lincoln left Nintendo. He said Night Trap would NEVER come to a Nintendo console, and it did. Had he said, "As long as I am working with Nintendo, Night Trap will never appear on a Nintendo Console" then yeah it would make sense. But that did not happen so the other person has a point.
Don't be like politicians. Learn from this, and when there is a doubt in your mind about what a child is exposed to in entertainment, just remember one simple word:
Context.
Children learn fact from fiction when they read a book, or watch a movie, or tell a story, and video games are no different. This is the main thing we should learn when we see an ESRB label.
Politicians are greedy lying bastards. They'll frame anything that opposes them in a negative light to get their way.
Kid: Can I get GTA mom!?
Mom: No!
Kid: " goes to friends house and plays it there..."
I just discovered this channel and I love the amount of detail you include in all of our videos. They feel like mini documentaries. You must have gotten A's on all your reports in school.
They're so goo, aren't they? Literally so professional, like they could he on Netflix or another large channel. Really good work.
I wish parents and congress would get this upset about lootboxes in modern games training kids to become gambling addicts later in life.
Ikr
Apparently Gambling Addiction wasn't as big Issue as Violent Action or Sexual innuendo's
The ESRB is headed by bunch of bilks with the only interest of money.
@Joe Ç I don't know. Lootboxes really are gambling, even if they don't meet very strict definitions of gambling. Gambling is already illegal for children, you can not walk into a casino as a minor but you can gamble with lootboxes.
But I might be a bit biased, because I hate lootboxes. I don't think it will turn children into gambling addicts, but children will lose money on them. They will probably learn their lesson at some point but it's still not great.
That would require Government to do its job, though.
I just can't get over how hostile some of these senators are. They're not even trying to give the industry a fair shake.
Ben English Got to love politics.
devil's advocate, liebarman and the other senator could have easily pushed for government oversight but they let the industry manage itself
american politics at it's finest
Usual hearings showboating
To be fair it did need to be done, or we wouldn't have the likes of GTA V or Call of Duty these days.
They claim that the rating system from sega was too vague, however the ESRB literally uses a similar factor for its rating system 😂
With content descriptors
Exactly
The ESRB is a hell of a lot more descriptive though. They nearly doubled the amount of ratings (with more being added as time went on, such as E10+) and included a bullet-point list of the content that earned the game that rating. Sega's system didn't do that at all.
@@swishfish8858 most irresponsible parents don't know that
@@CaptainCat101 It isn't the ESRB's fault that the parents can't read the black bold text that says M for mature on the box or do their own research. It's the parent's responsibility to know what their child is seeing. If that's too much for them, they shouldn't have a child in the first place.
When I was playing Mortal Kombat as a kid (I was 14, my parents let me play it) I used to run around freezing my friends in ice and then punch their heads off. Then the ESRB told me it was wrong and I stopped doing it. Thank you ESRB for leading me away from a life of crime.
@@anomonususer8626 lol
I cannot believe how effective that this really happened! Thank you ESRB!
Wait, if you were 14, then you were good to go. It was rated MA-13
HA!
Wasnt Mortal Kombat rated MA13 originally though? Lol
So, in the end, Sega was ahead of its time by using a rating system.
Pretty much yeah.
They were ahead in a lot of things.
Cube8 ironically being ahead wasn’t enough
No they had a cheap excuse that failed miserably
but an incredibly bad one
It's crazy to think that, if little Jimmy never asked to get mortal kombat, the esrb would never exist
Thanks Jimmy
I think the ESRB was inevitable whether Jimmy asked for MK or not.
That's a bit like saying "If it wasn't for Columbus, nobody would ever discover America"
Someone would, sooner or later.
@Ash Kitt Yes, i know Leif Eriksson was there 500 years before Columbus, and that people who originally walked over the landbridge from russia, down Alaska and settled the entire continent had been there since the last ice age.
I just used Columbus as an example since he was arguably the most famous one.
Point being, certain things in history, or perhaps even most things in history, are inevitable.
If not Columbus, then someone else would have done it.
If not Einstein, someone else would have come up with the theory of relativity.
If not Daimler-Benz, someone else would have invented the car by now.
And so on and so on.
Someone would surely have come up with a rating system for video games by now, regardless of the existence of Mortal Kombat and kids wanting to buy it.
Fucking Jimmy we should bully him
Man what is the soft jazzy music that you have around 4:40. Sounds so relaxing. I always enjoy your high quality work. Keep it man! Love your work.
Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards is a great idea, I still feel some of the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself.
Some people really don't care though - I remember waiting in a large queue in my local game store (unsubtley named GAME) with Pokémon OmegaRuby in hand, whilst I notice a young kid wandering around a bit with GTAV, with his mum. Some other kids on another day were talking with their dad, & he was offering them the latest COD at the time.
I dunno about you guys but I'm pretty sure the idea is to NOT get caught trying mature games, not let the parents in on it. =S
"Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards, I still feel the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself."
Where would a parent be checking the contents of a game in the early 90s?
*****
Asking the store clerks (assuming it's a game store & the staff would have some knowledge on the subject) or even trying it out themselves if they are planning to get it for their kids later on as gifts.
every time i go to game im swamped by young kids asking me to buy them cod and GTA while i wait in the queue to buy a 3ds game xD
egh,I remember my older brother had asked me to get gta vice city stories w/ my dad, and when we went to get it he definitely gave me that look of "you shouldn't be playing this"
I felt so uneasy the whole time,though at least we got the game
The ESRB absolves the game/company of any fault once it was instituted. Now it's entirely on the parent if they buy a game they find inappropriate for their child since they can't claim anymore that there "was no way I could've known" because the big "M" on the case tells them what the game contains.
It doesn't stop kids from playing games that aren't appropriate for them, it lays the blame on the parent rather than the creator of the game.
So far our youth has been corrupted by: Books (e.g. "The Catcher in the Rye"), Movies (Hays Code), Music (Rock & Roll, Hip hop), Comics ("Seduction of the Innocent"), Board Games (D&D), VHS ("Video Nasties"), Cartoons (Simpsons, Beavis and Butt-Head), Video Games (Mortal Kombat, Doom, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball), and of course, at all times, illegal drugs.
Yet most of these moral guardiens never consider the impacts of poverty, parental neglect, over prescribed drugs, alcholic parents, divorce, underfunded schools, bullying, self-esteem parenting, helicopter parenting, unhealthy eating habits, reality TV, or constant morals panics caused by the 24h news cycle.
AMEN!
Nice to know that overprotective parents have always had their priorities in order.
Also Socrates. He got the death sentence for corrupting the Athenian youth.
You know...its actually quite possible for a youth to be corrupted by ANY of the things you mention IF their parents are the type of peoiple (now VERY common) that let the TV, media and school raise their kids and impart their (instead of the parents) values....while I will agree that poor parents, divorce , too much TV and poor diet add to the bad behavior and attitudes of many kids (and also adults) the idea that "poverty" or underfunded schools cause such issues is WRONG- poverty and crime do not always follow the same graph, plenty of ecent hardworking poor people never grew up to be scumbags, while plenty of middle class kids did....the REAL issue is that both parents working leaves kids floating in a moral vacuum.
I wish people were more careful with what they put in anything. I'd perfer censorship over a rating system, but not many people like that....
17:44 Cut to today and Toys R Us is gone and Night Trap can now be bought and played on the Nintendo Switch.
I thought Toys 'R Us is long gone.
Well if you dosen't have kids account in nintendo switch
@@chonkokong513 what? Frame your words into a proper sentence.
@@venom160 that you need to show your credential to buy it.
17:34
Nintendo: “Night Trap simply has no place in our society.”
2018: Releases Night Trap on the Switch 25 years later…
If Nintendo didnt cancelled their SNES CD ROM, they would have Night Trap too, but since they cancelled and fear that SEGA might overtake them, they just used this lame excuse
Why was a five year old watching Beavis and Butthead?
they probably had a cool older brother or something.
Scratch that, why was a five year old PLAYING WITH A LIGHTER!? Now I would personally say that's bad parenting but nope, let's blame 'fictional violence' instead. Taking responsibility? What's that?
Cresco
You expect parents to be responsible for raising their own children?
This is the biggest thing with censorship and ratings. People want someone else to police their children and the content they consume.
You watch Bevis and Butthead until you hear your parents coming and quickly change the channel. So your parents think your watch Little Bear, but your actually watching something more mature.
"How would you like to have a teenage daughter go out on a date with a boy who just played 3 hours of Night Trap?"
Well, I'd be glad. He has a sense of humor and it shows that he wants to protect women (which is the goal of the game) rather than objectify them
Maria Thompson while I don’t think Night Trap would turn him into a rapist obviously, the content is sexist and silly. It isn’t some kind of feminist treatise any more than it is a rape simulator. It’s just a bad game from the fmv era
Jbramson12 Yep, it’s really a kitschy B movie as a game more than anything.
Kill me if this offends you but: SHES A FEMINEST!!!!!!!!1!1@1×$^&
Joe Ç probably, but it honestly couldn’t be much worse
Well Night Trap is a parody on vampire movies
“Sega and Nintendo will never get along”
Sonic and Mario Olympic Games
Another thing on a long list of things that my older brother told me would never happen!!!!😊😂😊😂🤣
🤣 Oooooh!!! That's Funny Crap!!!
Things like infinity wars will never be a movie, Maggie couldn't have shot mr. Burns, they will never make another terminator or Rambo movie,
Also, Sonic appearing in Smash for a 3rd consecutive time
And Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
I'd love to see a dedicated video to the history behind PEGI and CERO ratings in Europe and Japan.
Also, it upsets me people think it's ok to just not make more adult games.
Ratio
There isn't a story behind PEGI. They needed a rating system, they asked the countries with the most experience in rating games to make a Europe wide one (UK, Spain and France, UK were the ones mostly behind PEGI). That's it.
oh....@@medes5597
"Let's protect our kids!" *Sends 18 year olds off to the middle east*
Politicians are such hypocrits
Ha... well put my friend.
Yep. Saw on Facebook today a relative posted about how 18 year olds "enlisted" into WW2 and Vietnam, but today they need "safe spaces." This coming from someone who, when called out for posting racist junk, said she felt threatened and wanted people to leave her alone
Some of those 18 year olds chose to go kill themselves
@Winston Churchill's Ghost I see you haven't heard of the draft.
Yeah, that rating system is doing a whole lot these days. Kids definitely aren't kicking and screaming to get an M Rated game every year.
DaFro3713
That's the fault of the shitty parents we have in this country.
DaFro3713
The issue was more about information. Is it really a bad thing to have a label that tells you any content that people might not want for their children on the box?
TV was their kid's baby sitter, then video games became it, now it's video games/cell phones, lool. Shitty parents just don't want to look after their own kids.
SEGA shot themselves in the foot by calling 13 year olds "mature".
Yeah, now parents that actually DO care, can easily see what's in the box.
...Sadly, few do and the ones that were "outraged" on TV back then probably just used it as an excuse for their shitty parenting. Play a game for 5 minutes before leaving your kids to do it, or do you just let your kid download whatever app they want to on their phone?
...Oh. You do. Because the figurative person I'm adressing's a shitty parent. Oh well!
And Senator Joseph Leiberman went down as one of the biggest douchebags in the history of the video game industry. He stood in front of the whole world and said that Night Trap was a disgusting game that was about killing and stalking women and the game was exactly the opposite, it was about defending women from brutal attacks. He obviously never played the game, only saw certain cutscenes and made this claim. The sad part was, nobody called him out on that. Nobody stood up and said "Hey, you have the premise of the game all wrong". He also screwed the pooch on Lethal Enforcers. He claimed that the game rewarded the player with more firepower for committing crimes when the game's objective was exactly the opposite. You played a police officer trying to stop crimes in progress. You were defending the innocent in that game as well, but not one idiot cut him off and corrected him. Too many idiots without a clue arguing on both sides. I remember screaming at the television at these morons making outrageous claims that the games promoted violence when in fact, almost every game they brought to light punished the player for wrong doings and rewarded the player for making the correct moral decisions. So many rich bastards back then who should have been fired from their cosy jobs, for not knowing what the hell they were doing. Leiberman was out to make a name for himself by fighting for the people and those people's rights to not have to raise their own children. Boy did he make a name!
What about Nintendo? They gave him only the violent clips of those games!
+Ash Kitt A RINO, not a true Republican. Get your facts straight.
He went from Democrat to Independent. He was never a RINO.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman
Caron's Corner I stand corrected then. Good to know that the Republicans weren’t having any of his nonsense.
Yeah during that time, Democrats controlled The House and Senate
Wow some parts of this were frustrating to watch. And I don't get what was "vague" about Sega's rating system, it actually seemed pretty similar to ESRB ratings. Howard Lincoln comes across as a total brown noser, too.
Bucs - Rays - Bolts
I mean, the fact that Mortal Kombat received an MA-13 showed them that Sega's rating wasn't that great.
The US system is vague in that it is informational-only. Here in Germany we have compulsory ratings. (at least for the top-tier 16+ and 18+ categories, the 6 and 12 categories aren't actually binding) If you're 15 and go into the store to buy a 16+ game they aren't allowed to sell it to you. Same for the 18+ games. On top of that we have an index of games that are deemed unsuited for minors. which may only be sold under the counter and may not be advertised for. (which essentially bans these games in Germany) and last but not least we have really banned games that you aren't allowed to sell or import into Germany at all. (Oh, I almost forgot: We also have games which you aren't even allowed to own. Those are typically games where you see lots of Nazi symbols like Wolfenstein)
Bucs - Rays - Bolts Yeah but the ESRB system was and is way more comprehensive than Sega's system which was really vague. Sega basically had E, T, and M ratings, which is half of what is present now. The difference in years is around 4-1 now. Sega's diffference was around 7 years! A lot can happen in 7 years which made Sega's age ratings vague.
I think the thing that made SEGA's rating system vague was the lack of public input. It basically decided itself what category to put games in with no descriptors or consistency. Granted it was new at the time and may have improved but I think the ESRB developing independently was a way better move and does a great job.
The commercial pressure to get games rated was a good thing too, but one thing I think failed is that retailers also deny AO rated games which effectively censors gaming in order to succeed commercially. It comes down to cross purposes with the term Adult Only as most games that risk an AO rating aren't pornography but the term is associated with such in the movie industry. I really think they should add an intermediate rating that avoids this mix-up and turn AO to only apply to pornography with 'no artistic merit' as defined for movies.
I also remember at the time parents would be easily tricked by their savvy kids that the ratings meant how difficult they were and that continued for a decade or 2 really.... But hopefully now those kids are the parents themselves they actually know what the ratings mean and make informed decisions.
I don't really find it vague as much as I find it a bit too broad. I think PEGI's system of 3+, 6+, 12+, 16+ and finally age of maturity in your country - AKA 18 in Germany e.g - is a tad more precise.
The distinction between 16+ and 18+ is SUPERBLY arbitrary though. DMC3? Bah, that's for teens, 16+. Cowadooty? Oh man there's guns in this that aren't shooting demonic monsters that spill more blood than I ever could, yeah that'll be 18+.
Incase you don't believe me, here. i.imgur.com/bxw0mZN.png - there's still a LOT of oversights everywhere, but I'm fine with this somewhat more precise rating system. Just 3-13, 13-18 and 18+ is a bit too broad IMO.
Government and Parents in 1993: There is NO room in our society for explicit games.
Parents Now: You want GTA V for Christmas? OK.
Jan 24 2020 update: Whoa! Thanks for the likes!
GTA 5 is crazy but there is even crazier stuff than GTA
So true. One time at a trip to a nearby Game Stop, I've noticed a mother holding on to a copy of a Grand Theft Auto game (problably GTA5) while waiting on line with her son who was clearly a child. He was telling her that that was the game he wanted.
I don't know how knowledgeable she was with game ratings or if she even cared, but this is a perfect example of when a parent doesn't do their job as one when it comes to regulating what a child sees, to give them an understanding of what they can and shouldn't be exposed to, and why. At least until a child is old and mature enough to make a decision for themselves as to whether or not to play Teen and/or Mature-rated games.
David Piçarra mk11
@no name There was always that one kid with super strict parents, but for the vast majority you are right. Most of us still grew up to be normal. I think I don't know a single man who doesn't or at least didn't play some violent games, but not a single one who I know became a murderer or rapist.
"But you can't sit there and say that you represent the whole industry?"
"Can you sit there and say that you represent all of Washington?"
Imagine if people minded their business and only parented their own children. Or even paid attention to what their kids watch and play! _Madness!_
you have a Ken burns style that's refreshing in a industry heavy with profanity and obligatory toilet humor. Great content! subbed. ps, waiting on a feature length documentary. lol.
Amen! There are a few guys out there that do watchable content and this fellow is definitely one of them. Thank you, Gaming Historian!
Personally, I'm eternally grateful to the formation of the ESRB. Thanks to them, Nintendo no longer restricted content for games licensed for their consoles and Mortal Kombat II was an almost flawless arcade port with all of the blood, guts, gore and Fatalities completely intact (no codes or Game Genie required). If things had remained as they were before the ESRB, we likely would've had yet another neutered version like what we got with MKI, which, while graphically superior to the Genesis port (due to the differences between the older Genesis hardware's capabilities and those of the newer SNES with its larger color pallet), was a far cry from the graphic violence enjoyed in the arcade original. One positive of this however, was that Midway took inspiration from the more ice themed Fatality given to Sub-Zero in the SNES port of MKI and gave us similar "Deep Freeze" shatter Fatalities for that character in virtually all future iterations of the franchise in which that character appeared, including Mortal Kombat II (though it wasn't just chunks of ice that exploded onto the screen when he finished his opponents, of course).
Everything has a silver lining. The ESRB also proves that parents never take the blame. Ever. Even after a bunch of senators went out of their way to put the rating system in place, they still blame video games for crap like school shootings. It's ridiculous.
@@applescruff1969 Although technically the ESRB not solving the problem should prove it's the parents' fault.
@@llSuperSnivyll That's what i said.
With a name like 'Mortal Kombat' why is it surprising that it's violent?
@Fred J3 lol
I was a teen during this time, and I HATED this whole moral panic. The whole "Contract With America" era had a lot of people acting silly; this business over video games made me aware of Joe Lieberman for the first time; I despised him ever since. As I got older, I found much more reasons for that feeling beyond video games. My friends and I used to make fun of Sega's rating system back then, and even used to call Night Trap "Night Crap". But Nintendo really looked like some chumps here, really.
Nintendo, after all that blustering, caved, because Mortal Kombat II was released in "uncensored" format (though, games like Primal Rage ended up being censored versus the arcade game on which it was based), which made them look even more ridiculous. But hey, at least they could compete with Sega this time around and rake in the profits.
Though ultimately this development allowed (console) video games to evolve outside of the confines of the "family friendly" constraints imposed on it by Nintendo's success in the 1980s (partly to protect the business from an Atari-like implosion), I still have a lot of dislike for the fact it went all the way to the U.S. government. Rare is it that Congress turns out something beneficial to the public on purpose following such a panic-driven response; that the industry ended up to make better product as a result is purely coincidental.
Great post, about with I only disagree with that ESRB made games better. There have been barely any AO games, for instance.
how old are you now?
Mortal Combat on Genesis not only had blood. It also had a much more consistent framerate. The SNES port often hovevered between 20 and 30 while the Geneis one was a stable 30.
To "despise" a random perosn you never met is a bit obnoxious
When Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate in 2000, well I knew at that point what ticket I wasn't voting for.
People blame young people voting for Nader in 2000 spoiling the election, but Joe Lieberman moral panic over video games lost the election.
And yet, people still complain about the video game industry without even paying any attention at all to the ESRB.
I've seen people go "why do games say rated M for mature on them? is it just to look cool?"
_Yeah._
Even worse, this:
At Gamestop
Man picks up Call of Duty: Modern $ellout XXXbox 666 edition
(I'm a Nintendo fan)
Man: I'd like to buy this for my son.
Gamestop employee: Okay, are you fine with your child playing a game that is rated M for mature? That's 17+ by the way.
Man: Yeah, sure that's fine, my 9 year old son is fine with that.
Man gets home
Man sees violent game
Man complains about it
*Facepalm*
I remember back in early 2011, this woman was buying CoD Black Ops with her son.
EG games guy: You are aware that this game is pretty a violent one that shows a war, right?
Woman: I don't mind him playing violent games... But wgat kind of war?
EB games guy: This game takes place during the cold war.
Woman: So you kill humans then?
Guy: Yes.
Woman, to son: I told you, son, I will only allow you to play games where you don't kill humans.
Guy: well, in that case, may I suggest this game? (Pulls out a copy of Halo Reach) this is the same kind of game, except you shoot aliens instead. And despite the game getting that same M rating, it's less graphic than Call of Duty.
Woman: So you don't shoot humans at all?
Guy: Well, in Multiplayer, you might have to, but during the story the main goal is to shoot aliens.
Woman, to son: Ok, I will accept to buy this game if you want it. As the man said, you still shoot, but aliens instead.
Kid: Yes, I want that game. Thanks mommy!
=)
I think if parents actually took more responsibility it would be great. Say no it won't kill em to hear no. I say no to mine ALL the time.
Gay and cringe pilled.
BaBooTube Videos Nintendo almost fucked the industry with their hatred on SEGA with the ratings system and you're still a fan? Did you watch the video?
This channel is so relaxing.
They say Night Trap promotes violence against women? Night Trap is about defending women from vampires who are trying to kill them!
You understand you answered your own question, right?..
Reginald Longfellow
Every politician had something against video games, no matter which side.
Though portraying women in constant need of rescue is problematic in its own right, if only Anita sorkeesian didn't make a mess of that talking point.
And no making link a woman so he and Zelda can be lesbian lovers is not the answer, it'll just replace on problem with two or three more
@@TooCooFoYou I thought it was that conservatives blame video games on violent attacks while libs attack movies for POTENTAILLY causing violence
@@patoren3gou653 Its more of Conservatibe atack stuff for ''Morall'' reasons, while liberals atack stuff for ''Implications''
Growing up an avid fan of the artform of video games, I always knew "of" the mob of loud parents who were angry about violence in them. But I never gave them much thought, I figured they were just alarmists who knew on some level that their concerns were nebulous. But this video actually evoked some compassion in me for those first-concerned people. While we all know now the jury is out: violence in North America consistently decreased while violence in video games grew more prevalent, people back then didn't have any way of knowing if these mediums actually changed behavior. They didn't have the benefit of hindsight or vigorous research on the subject. So while I still don't see any credibility with people aligned in that same position today (since again, the jury is out) I have a bit of a soft spot for those initially concerned.
It's easy to look back in hindsight and laugh at the actions towards the latest new thing, but we should remember that new things change society sometimes.
Such a well rounded story. You have two extreme sides colliding all for another relic in history.
Hey Mr Historian!! First off I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!! I often rewatch them and let the ads play just to show my support. I can tell by your views that you were definitely meant to do this. You’re very relatable and I find we’re all relatable, us gamers. Thanks for these awesome videos!!
Watching the debate slowly builds up a frustration that makes you want to yell.
Know what you mean. Felt bad for Bill White.
***** Poor guy was basically ahead of his time, at least when compared to the rest of the people on the council. Now a days, I think most people agree with him. Gamers are a recognizable community of young and old and I'm pretty sure they would not let this bad mouthing slide as easily as it did back then.
I instinctively went "...oooh" when Bill White made that slip of the tongue saying "Sega" when he meant to say "Nintendo".
Why did this thread turn into anime. I don't care if you think I'm a weeb, I can't stop you from thinking that and don't really give a fuck, but you're pathetic to bring it up when the only thing mentioning it is my profile picture. Talk about what I'm speaking of, because you calling me a weeb is similar to butting into a conversation to say someone's shirt is gross or something. Would you do that in public? No, you socially awkward degenerate.
Addressing, TheGameRage1, I know about the SJW and hipsters, I honestly thought about them while writing my comment. However, the gaming community today fights those fuckers, unlike back then. Gamers will stand against the bullshit in the Gaming community. The biggest example of it was GamerGate, even though SJW made it out to be a hate group of misogynists, when they were really fighting against shitty journalist, specifically in gaming.
It's cute watching people get angry when others point out that their behavior and toys can have a negative influence and that you don't live in a social vacuum.
Judge: "Did you actually play Night trap?"
senator: "Uh? no"
Judge: "and you want me to change the ratings due to your poor judgement?"
Senator: "yes"
Judge: "No"
*later*
Supreme court: "yes!"
Angry senators: ''Video games are bad, MMMkay?''
i get it now
mkay
mk
mortal kombat
actually now that i think about it that may not of been intentional lol
All i can think of now is the mmmkay in that one dumb voice XD
@@bluespartan076 Mr mackey's voice from south park.
that's probably baaaad
This is when I realize making a name for themselves is more important to politicians than the truth, I was like 9...
The whole "OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN" line gets reeeeeeeeeeal old.
Ya, pre-Code comics were so much better than this garbage DC, Marvel, etc. stuff nowadays anyway. Too them decades to make decent stuff again like Walking Dead and The Boys.
20:25 Lol if as a kid my face was on a character in Mortal Combat I would have thought that it's totally awesome.
LOL Nintendo 1 year later releasing Mortal Kombat 2 with full blood.
Then 3 years later Goldeneye with the graphic grunt sounds. lol
didn't they change presidents or something like that? i really can't keep up with it but... it was hurting sales without blood so of course they going to allow it
+unkown a no, Nintendo's then president Hiroshi Yamauchi stayed with them until the GBA and GameCube were released.
After Yamauchi retired, They had Satoru Iwata as president until he died a little over a year ago.
JsRetroVideoGames May he finally rest.
I love the ESRB. Informative and uselful. Also has the added benift of using it as a defense against parents who can't read good and pin the rightful blame on parents by developers. Tasty double edge sword.
My few issues with ESRB is that
1:Mario Oddessey and Kirby star allies are rated the same as SSBU
2:a rating for 17 year old then 18 year olds
3:the gap between E and E10+ is to big (7 years)
Except that they STILL blame the games because they don't read the ESRB rating.
Or they don't even know the ESRB even exists (think Trump).
Dazza 2412, 1. Why wouldn’t Mario, Kirby, and Smash be rated the same? In all three you use very cartoony violence to complete levels and maps.
@@llSuperSnivyll At least they have no power to file a lawsuit against game publishers.
@@Keithustus Probably because Bayonetta is in Smash.
Games Rated M
Mom : ExCusE mE whY iS tHiS viOlencE
GameStop Cashier: Ma'am, can you even read?
Mom: who has time for that?
Every single rating category has violence. There's no way to determine whether a game has violence in it or not using ESRB.
@@Otome_chan311 Have you heard of the C rating
@Frost Aurora Fantasy violence is still violence. The rating on the box is just a letter though. Likewise games can be rated much higher despite no violence at all. It's impossible to look at the rating and discern whether the game has violence or not, and what the actual problematic content is and how severe it is. There's no standardization. E, E10, T, M games can all be non-violent, or filled with violence. Which makes the ratings absolutely useless.
How come there’s more video game controversies AFTER the rating system was established: gta, cod.
Because back in the day that type of content wasn't too spread back in they day. Mortal Kombat was seen as a terrible influence. Nowadays violence is pop culture
@@RodrigoroRex good point
And now the ESRB is owned by EA and 2k. Enjoy your gambling, kids!
Fr?
John Wick Not really, but I think the ESRB turn a blind eye to it.
@Mackenzie McIntyre That one didn't age quite so well
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 I was about to say the same thing...
NEW DLC FOR THE ESRB: THE NEW, FOR 100+ YEAR OLD PEOPLE RATING!
They also said Dungeons and Dragons would turn kids into Satanists and Harry Potter would lead them to Black mAgic.
My mom said spongebob was satanic for some reason.
I played LEGO Harry Potter
Now I used black magic to sacrifice small children to satan
@@user-sd7qo7qe4v and make then lego toys first
@@chonkokong513 my aunts from my dads side told me to not watch spongebob because “it would make you stupid.”
Yep. Dungeons and Dragons was Satan's game! Satan, the prince of lies, the epitome of all evil, the most vile, treacherous, murderous, rapey, and hatefilled being to ever exist...wanted people to play a game where the overwhelming vast majority of the time the whole point was kicking the shit out of evil creatures and saving the princess/kingdom/world/whatever. Not sure why Satan wants to sponsor games, books, and movies where he and his minions are made to look stupid, weak, cowardly, worthless, and easily beatable, but I guess he's just wacky like that.
Best part of the video by far was the overly comical southern voice-over. Was that foghorn leghorn...?
Yeah, what the hell was that?
Daniel Carver
Cringe
"Well I say, these video games are really inappropriate."
Yeah I fucking lost it there lol
The frustating thing on Sega's end wasn't just that Nintendo violently threw them under the bus as much as possible, but their rating system isn't far off from what TV and Movies ended up adapting. The only difference is they put "MA-13" rather than "PG-13"
Yeah that point confused me. The guy that kept badgering Sega about the use of the word "mature." Like, shut-up and stop wasting time debating semantics, there are bigger fish to fry.
@@pufflepoint the way he went about making the point too by saying "Are you kidding me??" with the fake outraged politician voice. Dude was just trying to impress his voters and supporters by looking no nonsense. Instead, he looks like a fuckin tool
Another great episode, you deserve a tv series
I love how Sega and Nintendo turned the whole thing into a government sponsered infomercial.
"You will never see Night Trap on the Super Nintendo, which has many family friendly games such as Super Mario World and Pilotwings."
"That's because the Super Nintendo doesn't have the Sega CD. Only the Genesis has the Sega CD, which is for the cool teens and adults and has games such as the Terminator and Corpse Killer."
Watching these types of hearings will always enrage me. Legislators often know nothing about what they intend to regulate and I despise how they talk down to fellow citizens.
The fact that the most pressing issue in the senate for a while was trying to ban Mortal Kombat is testament to how uneventful the ‘90s were
Man I wish we could go back to the 90s. Life was objectively so much better for everyone.
@@SarajevoKyoto you could literally say that for any decade, you just miss being young
@@cyb3rDraculnot really. After the Cold War the conventional knowledge was that we had entered a new age of worldwide peace. That was what it felt like in America. Of course that wasn’t actually true. There was violence across the world. But Americans didn’t know or care as that went against the narrative that we defeated evil when we won the Cold War. Either way, this illusion of peace vanished on 9/11.
Great video! It's too bad the ESRB has been lobbied to ignore gambling in the form of "surprise mechanics".
Thats a pretty accurate video, I just wish theyd improve it by merging the Mature and Adults only ratings, its too obvious that video game developers will make a game and water down the most violent parts just to get an Mature rating if they end up getting an Adults only rating from the ESRB, but than again, the movie industry does the same thing with the NC 17 ratings and waters it down to get the R rating. I guess everyone wants to have a loophole.
Eh, at this point the more mature the better, as it attracts younglings who buy games because of how brutal they are, not specifically because they like the game's experience it offers. See: All the kids playin' CoD etc.
Wasn't the Sega Genesis more of an adult console anyway? The SNES looked more kid-friendly then the Genesis.
Sega had less rules and aimed at older people. Nintendo pushed more for family games but Sega was cool with more adult stuff. So it's more of a marking thing. Some games on the Genesis were more adult. Others no so much. Nintendo overall pushed for more kind games and that was fine. Sega dipped into a lot. Look at a lot of Genesis collections out now they often get T because even now all these years later they are seen as more adult. I know T is not to bad but when a lot of Genesis games on a collection get the collection a T rating it does make a point that Genesis games were not all sunshine and rainbows.
twistedyogert the Japanese SNES (and PAL) looked more liked toys but have more violence in it then the NA version.
@MAX POPOLIZIO and Sega Saturn
Nah there was way too much advertising towards kids to be adult oriented
Hasn’t Nintendo always been more of a child’s console
Oh my goodness... the voice acting for Senator Fritz Hollings (21:35) is the best thing I’ve heard in a while. 😂
popular fighting games
E10+: Brawlhalla
T: Tekken 7
M: Mortal Kombat
sorry about E but i can't find E rated fighting games
Why the frick do people dislike this? It's really well produced and is completely unbiased history.
maybe they're trying to dislike the senate
Nintendo fanoboys butthurt
He's just telling it like it is.No bias to anybody.
Video is too short(I didn't dislike). :3
That's different, I am a libertarian, but I didn't dislike the video because of it telling a governments history. That's like if I go to a bar and I don't like them because they serve Budweiser, but they also serve hundreds of other beverages that I thoroughly enjoy.