STOP HARASSING Workshop Content Creators
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- This went on for days after the update last week, so I figured
it'd be worth speaking up against already. Hope you guys can agree
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / bigjoeyslaps
STICKERS: teespring.com/...
Patreon: www.patreon.co...
as the co-creator of the gnome dome i've received a bunch of sour comments for my cosmetic. ty for making this video!
That was one of the better ones imo! You could even wear it all year and just be a gnome! lol
Hope you keep creating cool stuff for our game
@@BigJoeySlaps joe
funny gnome
Honestly I actually thought the Gnome Dome was one of the better ones, mostly because of the multiple styles allowing it to be a year-round cosmetic… probably one of the best ones on the list, I think.
Gotta say, the Gnome Dome might straight up be my favorite all class in general. I'll probably try to get it in unusual form when prices have settled some more.
TRUE!
If you wanna criticise someone's work, its really best to speak in a way that still shows them respect
Shitty criticism -> Shitty work.
It is like schematics. Good ones contain sidenotes, close-ups to picky elements, comments on things that should be noticed, etc.
And bad ones...ugh...
Exactly! I've been saying that a lot of these creators clearly show the potential to model and create good cosmetics, but they need to spend more time thinking of creative ideas that suit the mercenaries that wear the cosmetics, as well as the overall theme of the game. Instead, people are interpreting that as me saying that the creators deserve harassment and valve is in the right :L
Valve is 100% in the wrong here, but that's not a reason for the community to lower the bar either. Blender is surprisingly easy to learn, so if anyone is dedicated enough, I highly encourage them to try making unique cosmetics themselves so that there is more variety in the workshop. If you don't know how to model or have trouble finding ideas, find someone who can help. I'm currently working with one of my friends to make cosmetics (I will model, and he provides ideas), and you would find that it's a lot easier to make something great once you begin.
@@JesseIsBetterThanYou sometimes Valve even just forgets about the last part of a set. Go look at the croc skin set from summer 2021. It is only 2 cosmetics. There is another part that Valve didn't bring, the boots. And then there is the raptor set for scout. A head and tail, but Valve neglected the feet. The seasonal employee finally got added so we could finish that set. The coldfront set for medic is missing the pants. The blast defense had other parts in the welded warrior set. The warhood and the fuel injector are missing their other parts. Mad mask, flamehawk, and the lurker's leathers are missing other parts. There are probably hundreds of other cases like this that would take way too long for me list off.
True. That’s why I voice my opinion on changes to the content instead of saying “ew that looks like trash”
If they want to criticize about someone’s supposedly lousy job, they should just yell at valve.
I loved none of the hats, I'm not mad at the creators for them making them because tf2 is nothing fun without the community. The creators need credit because they spend time on making the hats and etc. I agree with every thing you say and I will part with you on every subject you brought to the table, though the community has been dimmed for toxic, racism, and you know the rest. I would think it would be hard to get good readings than bad readings on your creations.
-JustJohn Hope you read this joey
And gg on that one game we had!
It is good that these creators gain experience from making cosmetics, but these cosmetics were made with the intention to be put into the game alongside other cosmetics that are already nearly identical, or the cosmetics themselves just don't mesh with anything else/work well outside of christmas. Most of these creators clearly show potential to make good cosmetics, but they need to put more thought into their work before they can make anything notable. Workshop creators should spend more time thinking about and designing interesting cosmetics that fit with the theme of the game and the mercenaries that wear them instead of "what is the wackiest cosmetic I could make that's christmas themed that will get attention from valve."
while i mostly agree, i do believe a lot of the cosmetics are made with the intention of "just it being put in the game" and not with the intentions of contributing to the community or making something that is actually cool. A lot of the cosmetics feel like landfill and I do think we should promote making stuff when you have a good idea for it, and not making them because you want something put in the game. But in the end its valve's job to pick them and the way it is going right now they are promoting the latter mentality.
n-not even the mooshanka?
@@Omabatfartsbruh lol
(dw I think the mooshanka is one of the nicer hats in this case)
TF2 and FNF fans arguing over which is better at harassing its content creators (im counting workshop submissions as content)
FNF fans would win easily, since I’ve seen so many people say that they outright left their community due to harassment
@@trashbash9190 The Undertale fandom has been pretty chill lately, especially thanks to Deltarune. All fandoms will always have a toxic side that make their own community look bad but they can still be enjoyable as long as you avoid the toxic part of the community and by avoid i don't mean just ignore it, acknowledge it and try to not be like them and call them out for it. But still, it sucks that there are some people that will harass creators over small things.
@@milkabutterfly Pretty chill because it's pretty dead?
@@Game-ne5nb I guess
@@Game-ne5nb Not really? Unless you're for some reason counting deltarune as a seperate fandom its been more active than it has been in years because of a new game.
100% agree. Harassment is never productive, and leaving toxic comments isn't going to get us anywhere.
That being said, I absolutely hate the sentiment that workshop creators "aren't to blame" for what we got in the update. While it's completely true that at the end of the day Valve picks what goes into the case, they have to pick from the pool of cosmetics that's on the workshop.
Workshoppers don't create cosmetics that they're genuinely passionate about any more. Perhaps they did several years ago, but since then they have ABSOLUTELY focused on creating as many outrageously Halloween and Christmas themed cosmetics as possible. At least a couple creators behind some of this update's cosmetics have gone public stating that they try to maximize the possibility of Valve picking their cosmetics, one even saying "If devs start adding winter/military stuff again, I will go back to good ol' days."
So no, Valve isn't entirely to blame. They pick the most outrageous cosmetics possible, which incentivizes creators to keep making that kind of stuff, which leads to more of those cosmetics being in the workshop pool for next year. It's a vicious cycle but one that the workshoppers have complete power to break free from. And I do believe that warrants criticism; not only towards the quality of any given cosmetic, but also towards the mindset and lack of creative integrity that so many of these workshoppers have.
But again. Don't harass anybody. For fucks sake, people
Agreed
Perfectly put
Is there a better way to verbalize what people have been saying for the past few years? No. This just gets it clean to the meat.
Just a perfect comment
It's not that simple. If you want your workshop entries to have a chance at being accepted (which is basically the entire point), it's best to follow established trends (e.g. Christmassy stuff in winter, spooky stuff in autumn, etc). And workshop submitters aren't one unified entity, so even if person A refuses to "pander" to what they think Valve wants, person B will gladly fill said niche. As with any place where users can submit content, there is an enormous range of content, and it's up to the devs to gatekeep what makes it into the game. This whole conundrum is Valve's fault for choosing the items they did.
Meet Bill. Bill saw the Smissmiss cosmetics. Bill didn’t like them. Bill also didn’t bash creators for the fact he specifically didn’t wear them. Be like Bill 👍
Bill died. Be like Bill
The problem is the blatant rip off of old cosmetics
@@chillycaty buts there is like nothing else to add because the creators are lazy rip offs
@@oliverbicanic8517 I'm sure there's enough creative minds out there to find good enough content.
Don’t hate the creators of the cosmetics, hate the people who decided what was placed in the game.
No one decided, it was an algorithm
@@leonardo9259 source?
valve looks at the first page of the workshop and adds all the hats there no matter the rating (probably)
@@fruitpigenthusiast120 what problem said
they made them those cosmetics and they are ugly
I mean, yeah, people like Zasty did say that this year's cosmetics were lazy and partcially blamed the workshop for this, but even then, they said *not* to harrass anybody because of it.
Sadly, some people just don't care and will do it for their own amusement
This is not just TF2's community fault though, such things happened in every community-
A community figure calls somebody out, tells his fans not to harrass this person, but they do it anyway
Damn, it's almost like having a large following and openly disliking something might have poor results, who would have guessed
(I'm not blaming any content creators here, it's not their fault, it's just that I saw this happen time and time again and I just wish that some people would choose their words better)
I'm pretty sure zesty was a big asshole to the creators
no, Zesty straight up said to "mediocre" workshop artist to go fuck themself, he is reason behind all this mess
Zesty is a prick, he also went out of his way to call Creators.tf content "shitty", which is basically the same content you find in the workshop.
Well, I mean... Yes, but no lemme explain
I don't really think it was for their own amusement but rather from their own anguish, as a lot of people are really starting to lose hope because we haven't had a major update in 4 years (not counting the Blue Moon Patch).
Well you can probably see where I'm going with this but if valve is going to pick just any cosmetics then we would want at least a little quality control from our workshop creators and this smissmas case was kinda the tipping point for a lot of people.
That and beside what's the point of attacking a company that gives you radio silence until may of this year!
Also what do I think about the cosmetics they're pretty lazy and their from the same creators that we've been getting cosmetics from for the past 4ish years.
@@p0r0st Sounds based to me.
you can dislike a map but that doesnt mean you get the right to harass the creator.
I'm grateful there is content being made for this game by the community. Yes, I do wish stronger content was added, but I'm so thankful the creators take their time to create something for the game, even if its reskins. We should not accept mediocrity and make that known to Valve, but the creators are the still the MVPs. I also can't fault a one man team for having imperfections in a map. You mean to tell me one guy made this map? Hell yeah that's awesome! Normally it takes a team. I just wish Valve touched them up but the fact people make maps singlehandedly, I'm glad they do that. Things could be better, but 90% of that work is on Valve, the community is awesome for sill being here and passionate. Thanks for saying this Large Joseph
(Most of) the hats are good from a modeling perspective, but they're just really unoriginal and don't mesh well with other cosmetics or seasons. I want to see what these creators can make when they put more thought into their creations considering that most of them show that they can actually make cosmetics in the first place.
I currently have a wrist sprain so I haven't started, but I'm working with one of my friends to make cosmetics (I have modeling experience, and he has a lot of interesting ideas). I think that if valve continues to show a lack of quality control, the community has to raise the standard on its own. I would encourage anyone with modeling experience to think of something interesting and unique that they could make, or people with ideas to learn how to make them as fully fledged items using programs like blender (blender is free and very easy to use and learn), or even find someone who can model an idea for you so that the workshop has more variety.
It's not the content creators fault, if valve can't even check the top rated cosmetics list anymore then people should go after them, according to you now the community has to filter submissions? And even then, harassing them doesn't do shit
@@googleforcedhandle I just said that the hats were good from a modeling perspective, and I am clearly not harassing/encouraging harassment in any way. Valve does not give a flying fuck about tf2 anymore, so the least we can do is raise the standard on our own. Don't you think we're more likely to get better updates if the community content is better overall? All I want is to encourage more people to make interesting cosmetics and put more thought into them so that the community is more likely to enjoy the updates.
@@googleforcedhandle Parrot
Except for the cardboard hats. They're lazy and easy to make.
@@Iwidelyoutliveeverything one of the main reasons why I added that (Most of) lol
Joey thanks so much for speaking up on this. I've been saying this for a while but no content creators have said anything till now.
bot account
@@samm_yanders How am I a bot? I have a generic name because I couldn't think of one at the time and I don't care enough to change it.
Maps are good just needs some touch ups to me, the cosmetics are decent I can see the work behind em why should I harass them over it just because indont like the theme. Doesnt mean they couldn't be more creative with em. There are some good christmas cosmetics I find couldve worked better, in there was a good multi class Santa cosmetic with glasses and beard, I could see folks play with that for a mercenary santa claus or just a grouchy old man
Cope
@@commcrimson9999 nah
I empathise massively with these creators. Heck, I got a lot of unconstructive negative comments on a cosmetic I made for fun as an homage to Among Us back in September of 2020 ("L'Imposteur, if you really wanna search for it"), when the game had just started to get traction. It was mostly well-received at the time (in terms of constructive feedback, mostly liking the idea but pointing out the roughness of the execution), but when the post-ironic era began in January, that's when I just got unhelpful, hateful comments. I had people telling me to uninstall the game immediately, that they'd uninstall if the cosmetic got added, etc. I have posted like two things to the workshop since because it just killed my drive for workshop creation that badly.
The fact that established creators are getting this when they have so many other banger cosmetics added to the game (and many more in the workshop awaiting addition but Valve just doesn't care to put stuff other than Wacky Gimmick Holiday Hat) is beyond disappointing.
holy crap it's actually you! your a legend man dont forget it
Honestly my biggest annoyance with those harassers is that they'll go “you should be doing better items!” as if the workshop creators haven't been doing kick-ass items since the beginning. They seem to think that the workshop only has trash cosmetics, which is false. The truth is that VALVe is deliberately avoiding cool cosmetics (that have tons of votes) in order to add gimmicky stuff.
Most people who criticise workshop creators look at the workshop as much as the intern picking the cosmetics
It is strange how Valve is trying to avoid all of the cool looking cosmetics. It seems quite counter-intuitive. I know they don't seem to care much about profit, but I am sure they would be making more money from cases that actually have decent stuff as compared to the ones we have now. Maybe they might have another reason such as having a case that contains a ton of mediocre cosmetics and one good looking cosmetic, forcing people to have to unbox several of them just to get that one cosmetic? I honestly doubt that this is the case as this case doesn't seem to have any good cosmetics.
I have a theory some people attack the creators because unfortunately they know Valve will never hear/see the actual criticisms. So instead they dogpile someone they know is/has been active in the game recently.
Also some people are naturally just dicks
If that's true it's mostly a subconscious action, and yes some people think that good criticism is just yelling at people until they "get it" when the only thing they're getting is a aneurysm.
Finally someone talked up about this, this was needed for the community in workshop
monkey did tbh
zesty called the creators pathetic in one of his videos the guys clearly extremely salty and can't get his point across without sounding like a fool. I respect your take on this joey, you've always been extremely grounded and respectful of others.
Thats Zesty for ya.
He also was a complete ass to one of the war paints year ago in a video ranting about it, the guy that made war paint was the first he ever done in Tf2 life, unfortnatly he kept getting harrassment by zesty Fanbase.
It doesn't even matter, no matter what you say online to deter people from bullying or harassment, there's always gonna be an oddball who likes to do "a little trolling"
@@AmoniPaleo the one ice war paint?, I had to side with him on that one because thar was literally stolen clip art from a Google search
@@lithiumAEON it wasnt that one, and even if it was. Is it really necessary to send hate? Blame valve not the people who made the workshop item.
Also why you siding with the bigot that is Zesty?
@@AmoniPaleo 1) If it wasn't that war paint then which one was it? 2) I side with Zesty not because he's some based Edgelord, but because I see him complain about the Warpaints that are actually legit stolen clip art, in which that case if you have to stoop as low as ripping it from the internet then it is quite pathetic. I mean no offense to you, but why does it matter who I side with, It's the internet, Grow up.
it seem it really is a big problem, I only made 1 item in the workshop which was also the first thing I ever worked on and posted to the workshop and these are the two comments that I got: "No one would use this ever, it's actually painful to look at" and
"Too saturated, no one would use this outside of december"
I guess it counts as feedback and criticism but it still hurts.
while i mostly agree, i do believe a lot of the cosmetics are made with the intention of "just it being put in the game" and not with the intentions of contributing to the community or making something that is actually cool. A lot of the cosmetics feel like landfill and I do think we should promote making stuff when you have a good idea for it, and not making them because you want something put in the game. But in the end its valve's job to pick them and the way it is going right now they are promoting the latter mentality. This is absolutely no reason or excuse to harras the creators, that just sucks...
This would never happen if valve actually never got lazy.
once they put tf2 into the shadows and it actually loses popularity, they're going to BEG for the players to come back
@@noll1488 nah they aint gonna beg for anyone. They already have cash cows in the form of DOTA and CSGO, why tf would they care about TF2? Lol
@@roman108 sad, but true
@@roman108 funny cause they have literally STEAM, they dont need to do anything with any gamer, they can just remove every game they made from steam and be more than great
honestly if people are harassing the content creators they should try to put out content themselves. cause these maps might need work but its still something new
look pal, you don't have to be a baker to tell that bread is shit.
The "can you do better?" argument (fallacy) means absolutely nothing and lies at the bottom out of the nearly infinite amount of reasonings one can make for anything
"Stop crying about your catfood for dinner. Just be lucky you got food at all"
"How can you tell my bread is awful if you're not even a baker, geez"
I know this is unrelated, but thanks for sticking up for Zesty in the beginning of the video, and stating that he clearly didn't say to harass these people.
I agree with your point about harassing creators, no-one should have hate at them for putting themselves out on the internet, but I don't think we can solely blame Valve either.
Valve only picks these dumb, gimmicky, generic cosmetics every year because people keep making them. This especially applies to creators that have their items in nearly every single case.
If they keep making garbage and Valve keeps making money off of it, they'll keep getting their items in the game.
I also feel there's a double standard of UA-camrs (big and small) getting harassed and even bullied for just vocalizing their opinion or thoughts on the game, to a far greater extent, without doing anything that might actively detract from the experience of many players (unlike some bad workshop creators)
There are hundreds of spectacular cosmetics out there that could supply this game with a whole decade of amazing crates.
Yet VALVE chooses the shit ones, 100% there fault.
@@epiclamp44 they couldn't choose them if they never existed, they'll continue to choose whatever gimmicky, silly cosmetics they can as long as they still profit off them.
The worst part is, 99% of the cosmetics in the case are in collections that the Workshop creators made that contain FAR better cosmetics.
Valve literally chose the worse possible items from each of them and put it in a single case.
Criticism helps people improve. Harassing makes people not want to do it anymore.
Imagine if scout in asylum gets added into the next Scream fortress update as a map
I really don't mind an insane asylum themed Halloween map.
this is a major issue with the tf2 fanbase, they'll go out of their way to attack anyone who content creators make fun of, or anyone they disagree with without thinking
And people say that tf2 has a friendly community
i think this problem can be applied to every community as well
I feel like people just want to bully others and see creators as safer than a company, or are in denial about it being Valve fault for one reason or another.
Or maybe valve doesn't listen to them so the only available place is the creators
No one would be harassing workshop creators if valve actually chose good cosmetics.
No one would be harassing workshop creators if the community wasnt dumb as fuck
@@Dr_Dan_ True.
I'm gonna be honest. I think it's both Valve and the Creators' fault for this.
It's the creators' fault for uploading crappy cosmetics, knowing that it might be added one day into the game, and Valve's fault by picking those crappy cosmetics when there's better options in the Workshop.
If the creators had STANDARDS and didn't throw shit on the workshop for money/self-mades/whatever, Valve would've picked better cosmetics for the crate
However, it seems like Valve chose the worst cosmetics on purpose for the crate, when there's better choices on the workshop...
That's my take, fault is on both sides in my opinion
People don't like bread space? People DON'T LIKE bread space??
I mean sure some of it is strange and I'm pretty sure those are dev textures, but come on, bread space?
well, i have a couple criticisms but i can see why people would like it.
for 1, first is quite open, not necessarily a bad thing but you do need some spots to hide.
2: second point is very chokepoint-y | there’s only 3 ways into the point and they’re all hallways, it’s not as bad on the flank route to the right but you’re still entering an indoor section with cramped upper areas and probably a sentry or two.
Lastly, The exploding tumours aren’t something i like, i mean they’re funny to get a kill with and while i haven’t died much to them yet i know eventually i’m going to back someone into a corner and have basically a guaranteed kill until they shoot a random tumour in the corner and kill me
though maybe i’ll like start liking it more if i play it more, idk.
As much i don't play TF2 nowadays, i do think that THAT one dev guy that thinks that incomplete maps should get added into the game, should take the responsibility to at-least check these maps out, or ask the author's if the map could be *OFFICIALLY* added into the game whatnot.
Honestly, Thirteen deserves all the hate he got (except for death threats and all that sht). He knew his map was unfinished, he knew it looked awful and he definitely knew about how overpowered sniper is on this map. And yet he said "Yes" when Valve asked him to allow them to put his map in tf2, even though there are dozens, no, hundreds smissmas-looking maps that are leagues better than Wutwille.
Pretty sure he had no say whether the map got uploaded or not. Valve probably wouldn’t have taken it down even if he asked.
Yeah I don't think it was that simple
I have been in other modding and content creation scenes and this shit is insanely common. A lot of the behavior described in this video I have seen elsewhere and even encouraged. Mob hate towards ''bad'' authors, influencers expressing their dislikes over them and shouting accusations of ruining the scene, leading to even more bullshit.. Having an company, Valve, who allegedly failed to bring in the best content for Team Fortress 2 and being negligent over it (the endless bots...) didn't help the cause. Also, people should learn that authors are humans and are prone to mistakes and trend chasing, and sometimes, they make shit for fun and for a quick laugh and not necessary made to be added to the official game, like the Asylum map.
Valve not caring about quality control is a concept that I have seen in the past. I remember Greenlight, the vetting scene to allow smaller indie authors to have their game to be on the storefront. Even tho it is supposedly to give the public a vote towards new submissions, it have lead to some bad actors being approved for Steam. Some even attempted to sue UA-camrs and customers for the sake of censoring criticism toward their games, and others literally had asset flips being approved. Now, it have been replaced by Steam Direct which is the same thing minus the public approving process. Things have gone worse as Valve said that it would allow everything outside of trolling and downright illegal stuff, and actually received bad press as blatantly racist and rapey stuff was found to be added. If the same problem about quality control is seen in his own games, then I am totally not surprised.
Yes, a lot of the cosmetics on Smissmas 2021 are at least, very uninspiring. Yes, some maps can be glitchy, unfinished, and not fun to play. Yes, others are far more deserving to be in the game, but harrassment and public shaming are not the way to go. I will be more interested to see if the TF2 community could pull off a better update than what Valve did, how easy that task is claimed to be.
It sucks that this happens. I mean personally I always have fun on these maps even if they aren't the best. And if someone doesn't it shouldn't make them want to go harass the people keeping this game alive.
People are unhappy, blaming and criticizing valve isn't gonna change anything, that's why people are criticizing the people who make hats, only the community is active so people give criticism to the people who make these hats.
Also, Valve can't add Wacky Gimmicky Holiday Hats™ from the Community Workshop *if the creators don't add any in there to begin with.*
This problem is a 2-way street, people; not all of the blame should be set on Valve.
@@Brown95P i totally agree. I just explained why people are mad at the creators.
@@bluny8392
Oh, yeah; l kinda just aimed that post of mine towards those who'd read this, not really towards you, y'know.
Why the hell attack the creators?! One thing is criticize the work done with the cosmetics, but harassment is going too far.
if there is someone that makes sense to get harassed is valve because they are the ones choosing to add the hats
(this is a joke, dont harass valve)
I feel like Harassment is the wrong term, that implies a single person did it more than once.
It[s more like a horde of people leaving a single insult each so I guess mobbing? I don't know I just know harassment it's very fitting.
UA-camrs like Zesty and Mönkey have created this narrative that workshop creators have a significant amount of fault in this because they're making the item, but they don't realize that the creators have always done amazing items that VALVe is just ignoring. The creators have 0 fault in this, it's VALVe's fault for playing this game of natural selection with them, only choosing certain types of items.
@@Everik-ct6pg two words, quality control
Because dumb kids
Not only did none of the UA-camrs say to harass creators, many of them went out of their way to explicitly say NOT to do it. I’m really disappointed in the tf2 community
I’m not surprised at the cosmetics, in fact even though they’re basically just Christmas ones, I still like them, but I’m more so surprised that the community is shocked to find out they’re going by a theme. It feels like they’ve been doing this for a few years, and they also do basically the same thing at Halloween, so expecting Valve to change suddenly is unlikely. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it, or trade for a hat you want from someone who did buy it, since Valve isn’t forcing anyone to buy cosmetic cases. But despite this, even though Breadspace’s A-B area is horrible for balance (it’s actually the farthest I’ve gotten in a balanced game), I still like the horror theme the map has, as well as the rest of the maps added. Double frost is by far my favourite reskin, and the ice in the sewers can make for an interesting sentry trap that enemies can’t run away from because they’re slipping around too much.
It is important to distinguish cruddiness that is Valve's fault. Nothing really comes from saying to a map creator "This is broken, screw you." Constructive criticism is still nice for these, but a lot of the time, as stated in this video, it is valve's fault.
But sometimes, people just need to express their distaste for something without constructive criticism, because there might not be any to offer. Admittedly, I would be nowhere as a writer or even as a person if people didn't "harass" me and call me names and insulted my work without any constructive criticism. That stuff was just as valuable to me as someone explaining the objective flaws in it. But even though I wrote in spite of the "hate," I'm sure lots of people will give up because of it. I suppose their creations are more valuable than what people like me create, so it must be a worthwhile sacrifice to make in order to end harassment.
As a wise man probably said once, "You can't reason with idiots"
I'm referring to the people attacking the creators if no one catches that
This is exactly what i have been saying, literally the workshop is the only thing that gives us new content and now people are attacking workshop creators
Maybe if people didn't create the most generic shit in the workshop, this wouldn't have happened.
Maybe if you weren’t such a baby you could appreciate work of others
The people who hate on map creators are the people who have not tried to make a map in the hammer editor
I use source filmmaker regularly but even I won't touch hammer editor
yea making map is pure pain
Just because I don't make something doesn't mean I, as a consumer, player, listener, whatever, can't criticize it.
You don't need to be a map making expert to know if a map is fun to play on, or well balanced.
@@BalticoYT The thing is, they said people who HATE on map creators, not those who criticize map creators. Criticism =/= Hate
I didn't even know people didn't like Breadspace, I think it's a fantastic map. Especially that final point
The Brain Cane got it worse than almost any other item in this case in terms of hate comments, but it's also literally the first item I've ever made, so I guess I can't complain too much all things considered. I would have preferred they added my second entry ("Polar Bowler"), as that one was designed to be usable in a non-christmas loadout
Hey man, don't let the haters get you down. Your cosmetics are awesome!
it's not that people don't like the workshop creators as a whole, they just don't like the stuff they put out. i see this as totally understandable since there were so, SO much better items valve could've added, but it's not the creators fault that they can't decline on their hats being put in. valve really need to tell workshop creators not days in advance, but *weeks* to ensure quality and quantity in cases, maps, taunts, warpaints, and weapons. if people feel like they need to back out on their unfinish creations, valve MUST accept their requests, whether they stay in the workshop or not is something i don't know, but i do know that some people really want to download maps, cosmetics, weapons, warpaints, and taunts from the workshop just to try them out.
point is, let valve know what WE want, instead of what they want.
In the last few days youtubers have uploaded videos like "TF2's most broken map" or "The worst maps in the Workshop" and the subs just go with the flow.
* If my favorite youtuber says this map is broken, I must go and insult the creator for making a very broken map. *
I did it with wutville but then reflect, if the map is somewhat broken but it is a very difficult job for a single person or even a team of people. And honestly I would not like to be insulted when I do my best to improve the community.
TF2 fans explaining how they’re such an accepting and friendly community and how their game is dying despite the fact that they harass the people who are making content for said game
The fact you have to say this at all says a lot about the current tf2 community.
Primal pfp
This comment says a lot about society
@@stevetheheadcrab7110 headcrab pfp
lashing out at the Workshop community is quite literally biting the hand that feeds us. Blame Valve for not caring enough to make this update better, not the folks who make all this content for free basically
If they're feeding us shit, of course they'll get bitten
@@putridmoldyman306 and then they decide they won't feed us anymore because we bite
@SLIME - CRAFTER Doesnt matter that its selected by valve. Valve wouldn't be able to choose bad cosmetics if the creators didn't make them
@SLIME - CRAFTER Im not defending valve. Valve is obviously also at fault. But it's ridiculous to pretend that the blame isnt primarily on the ones who made the items
@SLIME - CRAFTER its everybody's fault, community made dogshit and valve selected dogshit
you know big Joey is serious when he dosen't yell out his name
Or the flashy intro.
See exactly.
The content creators have usually NO SAY to if or when their cosmetics are put into the game.
Thats all Valve, the one worker, and janitors thing.
The community can just make good cosmetics so the "janitor" (jesus I hate this joke already) only has good stuff to pick from. But noooooo, we'll get another fUnnY and wAcKy eyes cosmetic!! and another pet in your shoulder!!! because that funny right????
@@leonardo9259 yes
@@leonardo9259 2:16 completely destroys this argument.
If the creators just did good shit for an entire year, VALVe would ignore it and get a shitty item made in like, 2014.
@@Everik-ct6pg OP was talking about cosmetics, and me too
I totally agree with what you said about constructive criticism but I think they’re also needs to be some solid critiques of certain content because having an overly positive community could be as bad as having an overly negative one cause if everyone’s items are praised it could lead to a decline in workshop item quality
It's not like any of the hats this year were poorly made or bad looking. It's just that valve pulled a ton of similar cosmetics and them into 1 crate.
I feel like it’s a combination of a couple of things
1. The tf2 community, at least the most vocal part, consists of a wide variety of emotionally-immature and impressionable children (sometimes adults if you’d believe it), the type of people to follow the lead of whoever is loud enough, without thinking. Which usually leads to…
2. The handful of community members that did display immature, emotionally-blitzed reactions to the new cosmetics (for example, zesty) have that influence on *their* viewerbase, which then collided with the remaining previously mentioned emotionally-immature children, either combining or having one ride off the other.
3. A lot of people will only get satisfaction out of response, to justify their blind dumb hate. Valve sure as hell ain’t gonna respond to them (or anyone), so what’s the next best thing? The creators.
4. Trolls who “want the game to die”. Yeah…
Yeah I'd rather have nothing than what these content creators make. Actually this game would benefit if the troons went away entirely
Honest to god I don’t think there’s ever been an update in TF2 I’ve ever hated, yeah the pyro update was underwhelming but I can’t say I hated it.
And I definitely didn’t hate 2021 Smissmas.
What I really dont understand about workshop is the fact that there are cosmetics with 150+ awards and I bet those Cosmetics have even more votes for them then awards alone, while cosmetics that have 10 or below awards, hardly any comment or disscusions get added. Thats just weird to me.
Why to ask community on voting for cosmetics when they still end up adding whatever they feel like?
First we lost the funny and interesting cosmetic descriptions, and we got those ugly long descriptions showing from which case those cosmetics are, the confusing colours of tiers and tiering itself is just artificial pricing ( which on itself is strange to me since the clean and modest looking cosmetics are usually the lowest tier or mid while the " meme " like cosmetics are always high if not elite grade )
I personally would definetly be more glad to see something that could be worn all year around, and I would not mind if it was winter themed.
the community is getting stale, this poor-quality content update and this drama is just the tip of the iceberg
What's in the bottom of iceberg
@@felipegomesoliveira866 it's too early to be 100% sure, but it's something along the lines of "political comunities trying to take over the game" and "scammers and hackers becoming omnipresent"
I've never understood the "stop making this type of hat" debate. Its dumb as shit, if valve keeps adding elf hats, people are gonna keep making elf hats, if you dont make one, someone else will for that "self made" title
The community works off of valve, so if they only add shit Christmas hats, the community wont stop making said shit Christmas hats
This is ALL on valve
I approve.
I seriously don't get why people harasse and hate others, we're all a bunch of idiots playing an idiotic game, we don't gain anything from it and we don't lose anything if we don't.
Valve is just as idiotic, but I am for sure happy we get any amount of updates
Is there even a comment when you don’t say I approve?
>"we don't gain anything from it"
Y'know, except for the *workshop content creators themselves* who get to gain actual irl money from these mediocre cosmetics being put into the game.
Map maker: Hey guys, this map is still in beta so don't be too harsh, alright?
Valve: What's that? Casual ready? Awesome.
Map maker: What? No! That's the opposite of what I said!
Community: *drowns map maker in hate*
Yeah, this seems totally fine.
Map Makers did nothing wrong.
The Hat Makers however deserve every bit of backlash they get.
they could say no tho
@@roman108 Valve ask them to upload it so it can be added, could have easily said it's not ready and not have it included. Map makers do have a say of if their map gets added or not. For other item creators tho, nah.
comments at 0:14 aren't harassment
do:
tell people to stop making elf hats (nicely)
dont:
bully people for making elf hats
NeoDementia
>tf2 is 14 years old
Ah yes. Its going through its edgy phase.
Do the creators even get a choice of whether or not their map/cosmetic gets in?
Once Valve selects it, I don’t think the creators can ask to have it removed from the game
@@RandomRyan if that's true that sucks
I’ve seen some of the hate comments and I don’t understand the rationale behind going to someone who’s making stuff for a game they enjoy.
I’m not blind to the fact that this year’s case was… underwhelming, but that’s more of an issue on Valve’s side more than anything.
Sure: some workshop content is mediocre, but it’s not the creator’s fault if their obvious joke item is accepted by the literal “developers” of the game (should any exist)
This has been a problem for years. I remember when the Hazmat Headcase was changed to be compatible with Sniper as a joke by its creator, and Valve had it fly over their heads.
It wasn’t the creator’s fault that Valve physically couldn’t get a joke and thought the creator was being serious.
Telling someone to kill themselfs is not ok
But
Im aloud to said " my opinion , the hat you made sucks"
"A dollar store has better quality items than this" 💀
I just want to say that even some their rage against creators is really rude, its at the same time partially reasonable, we dont have tools to outrage at Valve or give them feedback, no option how to tell them we dotn like this, and you know, when you starve someone they will become aggresive. I use Medics Elf hat whole year so Idc how cosmetics are themed, beside antlers that is not my taste.
making a good, not broken map takes a LOT of time, it isn't the creators of these maps fault that valve didn't allow them to have that time
0:23 All of the videos I watched, the YTber even explicitly said to their viewers to avoid this behaivour. While yes, the cosmetics in this years crate are pretty bad, it's NOT the creators fault. It's VALVe's. They created this bubble, consisting of people just batteling over who gets the most community made items and sh** (sorry for literally just repeating Zesty's video EDIT: oh, and this one) but I don't really blame 'em. In the end, It's VALVe's turn to put the good cosmetics in and keep the bad ones out of the game, something we have seen them fail several times for the last few years.
zetsy didnt said shit. he shitted himself again and made a post a day after
@@Dr_Dan_ oh, then sorry my bad
@@Arnie58 watch both videos for actual context. Dr.Dan is not exactly correct about his statement.
Honestly, my biggest hatred for the current state of tf2's updates is not the maps or weird/unoriginal/heavily-themed cosmetics, but it's the fact that Valve plays favorites with creators and doesn't give other people even a sliver of a chance. For example, there's two creators (I don't remember their names) that I remember coming across when doing my workshop queue who claimed to have 70+ and 110+ items that they made added into the game respectively. It's extremely unfair and quite annoying, even to someone who isn't even making my own stuff. What's worse, is Valve also takes a set of items that someone worked hard to make, and then goes "Hm... how about we add ONLY the hat from this set to the game. That way nothing matches it!"
El mayor problema es que estaremos casi 6 meses con esta nueva caja y meter los peores cosméticos en la colección más odiada no fue buena idea
The comments you displayed didn't seem hate filled. They just looked like they were giving their opinion in an unnecessarily hash way. That doesn't mean they straight up hate the creators. Rude? Perhaps. Hateful? Nah.
People who live in toxic environments grow thick skins, so I don’t expect them to recognize hate
Get better friends
@@user-mm3we3hr5b There is a difference between being rude and hating someone. Also, you just made an assumption about my personal life, and you got it completely wrong. Congratulations.
People on the internet have a really bad habit of punching down
In essence: Don’t blame workshop creators for making content for the game, blame Valve for allowing that content to be bad.
The sad thing is people do not understand what the hate they give a creator does until it either results In them leaving forever or worse happens.
Making threats and spamming creators is harassment. Making shit hats and being called out on it is not.
I only really hate the cosmetics that CLEARLY are licking valve’s boots like that Ballonicorn headphone cosmetic that keeps getting added onto it’s such “valve put this in bait” to me
No reason to get mad at creators for the bot at valve choosing their stuff to be in the game
With the maps, it is very difficult to actually design a map that works in game. Not talking about the creation of the map, but to get a playable map with good flow that is fun to play on. on top of that, it's often a hobby work by a non-professional that has a day-job next to that, there isn't that much time one has for bug testing especially when someone creates a few maps as essentially tests.
Instead of going up to the creators we should've just not opened the crates at all and just dump it like is it so hard.
i dont really watch tf2 ytbers anymore and i had no idea any of this was happening but wtf? HOW does anyone think that this is the creators fault? like bruh, people be dum these days
This is exactly why i dont play TF anymore and there is more people like me 100%
The TF2 community just cant be humble and enjoy everything they get and just straight up hate people for everything.
Hell you cant even admit you are anything without getting bullied in TF2 and other Valve games. You are furry = bullied, You like anime = bullied, You are gay = bullied, You have difference color of skin = bullied
At this point i just hope tf2 dies and its community with it
As much as I hate saying it, I agree. I think TF2 needs to die, tbh.
I think you're being a little bit extreme
@@seronymus Trust me, what i said here is only a small part of things tf2 community does, there are a lot worse things
what an absolutely correct opinion
@@P_ng40 have you tried just repenting personally
I'm not mad at the creators of the picked hats and effects, I'm disappointed with Valve picking some of these specific hats. Well I'm kinda happy that Scour has elf loadout finished (thanks to Seasonal employee), i'm glad that Mooshanka is in (all hail the Mooshanka), Ominous Offering is quite a stereotypical Christmas pet but still a cute one but the biggest disappointment was Festive Cover-Up (it would have been better as an outfit), but the other cosmetics, i agree they were mostly generic. I cheer for the creators and to make more great content but Valve needs to consider doing something about that. Maybe giving us a poll with selected stuff to put into the game that we wouldn't be so disappointed.
I dont get it some people minds work. Like someone create something, it looks bland but its (maybe) they first creation/ time made a different theme. And then someone hate it because it got added and just bombard a hate comment to the creator. They maybe created a bad cosmetic, but the one who added is VALVE. Now im questioning why there is a system vote in the first place? Isnt that make them easier to pick a "good" cosmetic? Even though its not that accurate, it still help and save a tons of time for VALVE to pick, yet they seems not want to do it
Thank you for addressing this issue!
The blame for the case's content is absolutely to blame on Valve, not the creators of the items. I'm all for constructive criticism, but just saying "do better" isn't really going to solve anything. It doesn't tell people how to do better or what people want to see them try. It also doesn't solve the issue of OTHER submissions with less effort getting accepted due to Valve's lack of care in approving what gets put in; community members doing better in their work does not prevent Valve from adding in lesser quality items completely.
There are absolutely phenomenal items on the workshop that Valve has chosen to ignore. The blame is solely on Valve for ignoring the passion and effort the community has put into their submissions for years. Valve is to blame for both the approval of underwhelming cosmetics and for UNFINISHED MAPS.
People, remember if a map that Valve chooses where buggy or with exploits is not because the creator didn't care or liked TF2 is Valve that didn't tested and cared enough.
it's both
@@leonardo9259 I can't say the map creator don't have a little guilt but still the company should at least care for their product that they got money from not the guy that's doing a random map for fun and for free at the time
Live by the following creed: " If you can do better; then upload it" . If you can't, then sit down and don't sh*t on those who can.
To some extent it is a good rule to follow, but in reality it just ends up hurting as much. The reason I believe that is that there will always be someone who tries to cheat the system (*cough* smissmas 2020). In the end criticism is necessary and sometimes being harsh is too.
imo they best way to approach this stuff is just don't be an asshole, but don't let bullshit get ya.
"Man this dish gave me ebola and has a dog turd mixed in with it but I don't know how to cook so guess I can't complain"
Its valve's fault
So now that smismass ended, I want to say bread space is pretty fun map. They fixed it aside from the starting spawns which I find bad design overall, but the glitches are fixed now. And I enjoy it a lot, it's an unique map that I have no idea why valve didn't make one like that when they released the love and war update, with all the bread monster thing.
Valve 2020: I wonder what smissmiss maps there are
Also valve 2020: let's pick the most unfinished and unoptimised map in the work shop.
This is why radio silence doesn't work anymore valve. Lack of Communication is what's going to kill tf2
Bad criticism on your art is not harassing. If you can't take any bad takes on the shit you make then why make art at all? If you expect everyone to like a buggy, laggy and unfinished map, you are in the wrong place.
And what's more funny is that if somebody says your map is shit other people assume it's harassment, like you.
The map was never intended to be good but valve happened to choose it as a casual map
@@g2ltt733 It still doesn't change the fact that people like the person who made this video do not know what bad criticism is
Believe it or not Valve is the one responsible here, combine the lack of update + not so good cosmetics + no warpaint and you get people getting angry AT the wrong people. Not to mention that the Workshop as a whole has a lot of controversy.
Its not the creator's fault that valve chose the most unappealing looking items in the workshop, but its not valves fault that these items keep being produced every year either. There's a nice middle ground somewhere here, i feel.
It's more of a 2-way sort of street, but the principle is the same, yeah; Valve may have the final word on what gets added to the game, but they can't add mediocre/awful content if there's none to be found there, and that's on the community creators to hold themselves to actual quality standards when publishing stuff on the workshop.