Why Aerial Refueling is Getting Harder
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- #NotWhatYouThink #NWYT #shorts
Why the window was replaced by a screen on the American newest fuel tanker KC-46 is not what you think!
Music:
Cloak - Christoffer Moe Ditlevsen
Footage:
US Department of Defense
Note: "The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
When the operator starts lagging
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💀 chain
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The days of full-service fuel stations are coming to an end. Now the pilots won't have someone to wash their windshield and check their oil and tire pressure either.
No. Ground maintenance operator will last forever, but the number of them will be decreased.
Even if A.I. does the job, since aircraft are so precise that even small mistakes are dangerous.
So they might want to be double-checked by skilled operator. Also, the pilot does check with the ground operator before flight.
@@pitot0philo207 Its a joke about race car pit stops lol
Reminds me of the movie Airplane! when the ground crew comes and checks the airplane's oil with a dipstick!
Surely you can't be serious
From what I understand some of the USA DoD military services use leased tires for any land based cargo/heavy aircraft, similar to the airlines. The contract tire leasing company is responsible for checking tire pressures and conditions. There are certain bits of record keeping required before a technician can replace a wheel-tire assembly. I not sure about the USA DoD, but I believe that some of the airlines require a digital record of tire pressure readings and adjustments to tire pressures. Also I believe that some airlines require HD digital photographs of tire tread conditions and depth readings as well before tire-wheel assemblies are replaced.
After spending 1 minute, I can confirm that sticking a tread into a needle in front of a fan is very difficult.
That was such a good metaphor
Nice
@@KennyNGAyour string also is made of metal and has fins on it
@@alexwasthere1 and the needle costs millions of dollars and is being piloted by a guy his friends call "Iceman"
Imagine doing it blindfolded too 💀
And that kids is how planes make other planes
COOL MAN , YOU TELL EM
DOC ..LOL LOL LOL
That’s how the XF85 is made
*Fails*
Bottlefeeding for planes
And that kids is how you will can not find a jub in the future
"when two planes really love each other..."
Thats the comment i like to find it.
😂
And there's the comment I was looking for😂😂😂😂
They don't have to love each other
Leave it to the military to replace a $100 window that worked fine with a $100k computer that works occasionally.
It's on an airplane, so add 2 zeros. It's also military, so add one or two more zeros.
And then american wonder why they can't have free healthcare tsz🙄
and then upgrade said computer to make what the human did but 10x faster and put that human into a position where he can be better used.
Which is a valid step since the army didnt reach its recruitment goals since a while now from what i am seeing.
Let Computers handle the stuff that they can and put in Humans in a place where they are useless.
Also in case the tanker gets shot down, its far better to loose a computer than a human life.
The boom operator position is a little more complex than just that window.
A human's capabilities are just too valuable to be reduced to merely flying a refuelling boom, regardless of how much training that task requires.
It's ok, it's only tax payers money !
For every automatic system you should have a manual backup, just in case.
Or in cases of transitions from manual systems, vice versa
I guess they need the footage and operator inputs to later train an AI.
YOU MEN - PROGRAM , NO DRUG TEST ....SHIT MAN , IN ARLINGTON TEX , SIX FLAGS , THE JOB OFFER TO BE AN AMUSEMENT MACHINE OPERATOR DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE A MARIJUANA DRUG TEST .SO THE ADDICT IS HAVING FUN PUNCHING BUTTONS AND PULLING LEVERS LAUGHING AWAY THINKING ITS FUNNY HEARING THE SCREAMS AND HOLLERS OF CHILDREN . PLAYING WITH CHILDREN'S LOVES WITH THEIR DOPED UP MINDS. .U.S.MARINE ,
This might be it. They can also do additional training virtually by simulating it in cgi similar to what Tesla does
Fiducial markers (i.e. wierd B&W QR code things) on both the boom arm wings and the plane would assist a lot in making an AI. They provide a consistent sense of scale and perspective without needing to know exactly the dimensions of the object.
Very tricky to train an AI when you are covering the thing you are interacting with in the first place. Most walking robots now have their legs facing backwards for this exact reason.
Sounds like big air force is really trying to eliminate enlisted aircrew then. This is a job usually left for enlisteds to do
@@saldol9862 Since there's drones a refuelling drone that is remote controlled is probably there next step
"Step-plane, what are you doing?"
That was so sexy when they were trying to connect
Well there's a first time for everything ......
And then, something snapped inside the mind of maxlarock8788
Consider touching some grass, instead of fondling airplanes. ✈️
fr
Damn it does look rather hard
And long.....
@@jamesbarbour8400😷😷😷
And it’s dribbling
Not sure if that was directed at me but if it was I will just say thank you but it isn't as hard as it used to be. Never was very "long" per se but it got the job done. And unfortunately it is less of a dribble and more of a full on stream these days...
In the future: Ok boomer, you’re fired
Yea , couldnt pass the drug test
Underrated comment
They will replace the whole air crew. The refueling will be performed by a drone.
In the future: ok pilot, you're fired.
@@2engjnr2Technically thats far safer.
I understand the advantages of the RVS system, I've just always wondered why they didn't just put the camera system on the boom instead of in the fuselage.
Likely to keep as much static off the boom as possible.
The operators are all currently trained to use a sight picture from the fuselage of the plane for cues on what the boom is doing.
A camera on the end of the boom would definitely allow an operator accustomed to that to get better results, but since all of the operators are currently trained for a different sight picture, they'd get worse results before they got better ones.
@@ShuRugal friend, what you say is true, however until they design a way that keeps voltage and static off a fueling source, they’ll do it the current way… a single volt from a powered, transmitting camera, while fuel is flowing, can become the most devastating thing.
Although as I read your post, I was thinking that maybe they could use a form of fiber optics on the boom, designed to keep electrical contacts away from it, and still have a sight feed from it.
@@johnkelly90 moving 10+ tons of fuel through that pipe in just a few minutes generates VASTLY greater electrical charge than what is required to power a camera. I seriously doubt that the electrical requirements of the camera are a design concern.
@@johnkelly90The boom is already powered (that's how the operator controls it) and you can't ignite liquid jet fuel with a low voltage spark (or with much of anything). Jet engine igniters use thousands of volts and require the fuel to be atomized. An accidental ignition because of the 5 or maybe 12 volts involved in a camera would be essentially impossible.
The real reason they did it this way : because they had no reason to do better.
And that’s how planes are born.
planes*
The plan leads to the plane....
plats*
I got to do this when I was on active duty. It wasn’t my job but they were taking groups of people for rides in the KC135s to show them what goes on etc. there are 3 places to lay down and look out the bottom window. Spots for the trainer and trainee. We flew over NV, ID and then to OR where we met up with an F117. We took turns fueling it (under supervision). The F117 did a bunch of high speed flybys, stunts etc for us. It’s freezing cold and super loud in those tankers. No insulation etc. fun times.
"We plan for a fully automated fueling process at some point. So for now we are just going to blind the people still doing it manually."
-Tax payer funded project
Rather like the "self-driving" truck fallacy.
I did this for 20 years and retired as an Evaluator Boom. I miss it everyday. Boom stowed and latched!
Poles in holes! Boom's checking off,
NKAWTG!
Boom operators also suffer from really bad neck/back problems too. I know two of them and the issues they have because of theor job is wild.
They also suffer from being unable to operate an APU lmaooo, jokes aside I do feel for them and this while kinda stupid will hopefully alleviate that problem
I think vertigo is also a problem, limiting who can do this job to people that aren't as susceptible to it. Lying face down looking down from a height can trigger it.
Three seconds into the clip... Is this how baby planes are made? 😂
Or how to feed a one year old.
All I'm going to say is this. In Vietnam the Air Force thought it was a smart idea to leave aircraft with only missiles as a way to defend themselves. They learned extremely quickly that they still needed a gun because if one system failed or you ran out of missiles. You were sitting duck with no way to defend yourself besides hitting the after burners and running. Same concept here. It would be cool to have this camera and capability for night time so that you didn't have to look through a window and try and guide it with minimal light due to trying to hide the tanker at night time from visual. But that still isn't an excuse for getting rid of the window entirely as a backup
Sounds like they didn't put redundancy on this system, hope that this shit doesn't fail.
Every Air-To-Air Fighter since the F-4 has a gun (cannon). The fighter mafia jumped all over their leadership for allowing the stupidity of removing the gun from the jet. Lessons learned from the Viet-Nam era. The USAF learned some harsh lessons. Heaven forbid the first time a B-2A or the new B-21A fails to air refuel because of a Hardware/Software glitch and we smoke one of our own bombers.
Is that a refueling probe or are you just excited to see me?
*no*
The airforce hasn’t heard of the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”
more like the defense contractors telling the military you need this technology now give us funding to make it happen then later on started to make sure the project will have cost overruns to make them more money by milking the military for more funding.
If the Air Force based their operations on that adage they'd still be flying wooden biplanes with doped fabric skin.
@@Sarge084true.
That's not how development works.
The phrase if it aint broke don’t fix it is do dumb. You can use the first Macintosh can you not? You can use an old flip phone can you not? And yet you still use modern technology to post this comment.
If we applied that to everything we would be fighting all our wars on horseback and with bows.
The drogue funnel was perfect as a guide.
Even an AI would think it was smart to keep it.
The whole process has unpredictable delays and unanticipated movements in both aircraft.
These are obvious simple engineering matters. 😊😊😊😊
The flow of fuel is less in the droque system resulting in more time spent refueling.
They are moving to less crew in the plane with one pilot assisted by the boom operator so both are placed in the cockpit area.
@@Jakob_DK thanks for the insight
Everything is okay but Blindfolded scene was damn hot😂
Because the ones that designed the RVS have never had to plug into an aircraft coming back from a mission with battle damage losing fuel in a storm, that's why
If your in a storm your not gonna find that tanker cuz he aint gonna be there. While the RVS operator could simply switch to thermal or radar to find you...
Unless you are in real combat like my father in 67' and his F-4 was shot to hell,his rio wounded and unconscious, on 1 engine , leaking fuel almost as fast as the tanker can put it in ,and 135 flew 30 miles closer in a rainstorm against orders , but that tanker crew saved my dad and his Rio.. And for that MY family will always have the upmost love and respect for the extender crews.
Thank you for sharing.
The boom operators need to unionize
Its the military lol. They're some of the only people who _can't_ unionize
So the airforce doesn't replace them with AI using their own work against them in a couple years
Imagine chilling while getting refueled and u hear the fuel operator say "IM LAGGING IM LAGGING!"
Imagine you’re that pilot but you run out of fuel before you connect that thing in the aircraft 😂
Actually happened to a Pave Hawk in The Perfect Storm bot irl and the movie
@@AnarexicSumoi was wondering if thats happened before.
“What do you do?”
“I’m a professional claw machine operator”
“Resulting in the operator not being able to see the tip of the Boom”
😅😅
I always thought the plane had to line up not the tanker. Always good to learn something new.
But why not stick to the old an working thing until the new one is completely ready to take over? Why modernizing something that doesn't need to be modernized, especially when there are better things around the corner?
I think there is a good reason for this change.
Because AI needs massive amounts of training data. This is "free" training data.
That is not the only major problem with this system. Initial system tests also showed some delay/lags between what is occuring and the display in front of the boom operator. This was supposedly overcome with lags down to less than a second, but with the speeds at which aerial refueling takes place (upto 550km/h), even in one second that's traveling 150 meters. In one tenth of a second that's 15 meters, enough to destroy the fighter being refueled or bathe it in fuel.
Ultimately the target I believe is to have less than one hundredth of a second.
Imagine spending as much money and forgetting about lag? I bet they're using some slow-as-heck digital cameras because "analog" was too "old"... even with the option of shielded cables.
Meanwhile, Mk. 1 eyeball still going strong.
More like 30 milliseconds.
My mother, who was a seamstress, taught me how to thread a needle without even looking at it. I would say aerial refueling is considerably more difficult.
Instead of removing the window, why not put a camera on the boom so the operator has the benefit of two different views. In the final automated system, two cameras might be better than one.
Was a fan on in front of it?
@@PugilistCactus The way we do it, you could have a hurricane and it wouldn’t make a difference.
I'm guessing they don't want electricity running close to the boom.
Lol .. the blindfolded girl was 😂
The fact is officers don’t like enlisted people flying on “their” aircraft.
If they let the maintainers fly they wouldn’t have a problem with it. That’s how the USCG does it and it works pretty great.
"If it ain't broke, dont fix it".
True, but sometimes you have to, for the sake of advancement.
Just keep the damned window so they can actually see
The boom operator postion was a most favorite position on long flights. It's a great place to sleep.
The best answer is Boeing copied Airbus and failed.
As it's often the case...
As a matter of fact, I heard someone mentioned before that the Air Force wanted to purchase an Airbus tanker instead of this Boeing KC-46, but some Boeing officials managed to pull some strings with several Congress members that eventually forced the Air Force to buy Boeing's product instead.
basically all i got from this is that the military invented cameras and called them RVS
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
Usually i agree with this statement but.....Less crew responsibilities, eventually results in less crew, eventually results in less risk. It may seem more expensive to replace an expensive piece of tech/equipment/machinery that fails, but it's nothing compared to lawsuits and bad pr from grieving families, especially ones who hold the government responsible at times when it's really not, accidents happen. (This coming from someone who abhors the government)
There’s nothing wrong with improvement
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Improve it
yea, live by that wording and you will not even be able to get a day1 attack on a country to work in a way that they are cut from the internet, tv or telefone. Or have to use phones in jets because your shitty gps is taken away.
Having an extra crew member and needing to having them physically next to the boom is definitely broke.
Refuelling drones gonna be BALLER
Automated war here we come.
Exactly 💯
1984
Lets make the robots fight eachother instead, alright?
All we need is better energy storage and we'll have literal robot wars. Invent an energy cell the size of a D battery that can hold as much electrical energy as there is chemical energy in a couple barrels of oil and thing will change fast. However, don't expect to use those energy cells in your house hooked up to solar because that stuff is for war.
"War has changed"
There was a short clip of a “boom” or hose with a cone on the end. That seems to be the best way. The rear plane can just mostly line up with that.
Not to mention loss of depth perception
Simply add 2 cameras and vr goggles.
AI can generate a 3d world with even more precision using 10+ cameras on multiple wavelengths then overlaying it for a more accurate picture.
Depth perception effectiveness from binocular vision drops off significantly over just a few metres
Very nice steps forward
See, Russians? We actually reduce crew sizes to reduce casualties. A vehicle can be replaced. A pilot and his grieving family cannot.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Typical Americans rely on technology to replace their work ethic, until some Russian decides to hack your beloved drone
@@Donkeymaster9000don't bang your head against the wall if you have a hammer.
@@Donkeymaster9000I always love to see movies where the military has drones and they get mass hacked. Just watched Wandering Earth 2, the whole military airforce is 80% massive heavily armed quad copters and they all go rogue, take off and begin to attack the air base.
You really think they care , bin ladin didnt
Gotta love the good old KC-135s 😅
Window method works, why fix it?
Surprised this got past the UA-cam censors.
"Fill me up, step-tanker!"
Good to see the US are catching up.
😂😂😂 I'm dead 💀 💀 💀 Am i the only one that thought RED ROCKET RED ROCKET in that first couple seconds!!??
"We are now watching metal birds mating" 💀
I can't get the image of my dog when he's happy out of my head thanks to the intro footage.
Also its worth noting that if a window is there, you need to have access to get there. likely the point of the video feed is to reduce wasted space and thus make the crafts smaller
This reminded me of my first time
As someone who used to work on the KC-10 and transferred to the KC-46, I can 100% say that the RVS camera system instead of the traditional window is so bad.
I like listening to non experts tell us
" it's not what you think "
Me, na it's not what YOU think
😂😂
My dad designs plane parts, he recently helped make pins for foldable wings on huge Arial refueling drones
Your right, in an game i was struggling to do it
When I see the boom extending I hear "red rocket! red rocket!" in my head. 🤦♂️🤪
This is actually dope. The US is unrivaled in engineering.
The operator after stabbing into a plane tearing the wing off: "That was a misimput, a misimput!"
Reminds me of my dog when he’s excited
They are unable to use this simple method under the name of wasting tons of money and time.
1) The Receiver side should have a special disk thick plate along with rubbery material(optional)around that hole for the smooth functioning.
2) With one switch on, it should behave like a Powerful Magnet and if powered off, should become like a normal metal.
3) This attracts the fuelling rod in to this hole perfectly and can transfer the fuel effectively there after.
4) For this they don't require any hyper precision cameras and don't have to do some circus feats on the air.
I’m former Kc-135 hydraulics, the boom is all hydraulics so I’m pretty familiar with them and the site glass out the back.
It probably should have been automated awhile ago. The boom is steered by the winglets on the end, it is actually flown into position by the boomer. The system works pretty well, but it does still allow for human error and requires quite a bit of training.
The cameras and remote pilot like the video mentions, I’m not sure how that makes anything better other than making the boom system cheaper to build, which I suppose is important.
The old system was entirely analog hydraulics designed decades ago. Likely the most complicated hydraulics system of any aircraft.
Why do I keep hearing "On the wings of Love" in my head when I see aerial refueling clips?
I remember laying down in the boom operator seat when visiting the local air force base during a school field trip
It doesn't BEG the question, it RAISES the question.
"guys their first time" the minute it connects *opens flood gates* 😂
The year is 2035, your child joins the air-force to be a boom operator inside a fueling craft that has no pilot but still has a boom operator.
This is only a supposition, but if had to guess, they record what the operator does (the input and the video) and will use that to train an ai to later have a fully automated refueling system.
Been on a few refueling flights where the boom operator couldn't see well enough. Had to change altitude to clear the fog off the windows.
Imagine being the first F-22 destroyed and fucking lag gets the points for it
I've looked around and what the actual operators have said is that they like the system and think it's an improvement going through a normal buggy phase.
The RAAF's A330MTTs use a similar system and are well liked, successful aircraft.
Less people in the jet, less people at risk. Same reason they automated reloading tank rounds.
R34 artist: right that down! right that down!
Well that was a surprise. It was exactly what I thought
clip started out like it belonged on the Discovery Channel
It’s like sticking a thread into a needle, in front of a fan, blindfolded 😭😂😂😂
I didn’t even know this was a thing
Aerial fueling is just an insane achievement
This is very interesting time we live... Pretty much on all aspects...
When you've been stuck by.... a boom operator.
Useing a ring lock is a good idea to grab it then pull it into place. ❤
I imagine letting a boom operator use a joystick and a monitor that both can also be used for other functions as compared to the physical backwards seat saves space and weight since you can just put them in a normal second seat instead.
Space and weight are very valuable in airplane design since the smaller and lighter the plane the easier (and cheaper in terms of stuff like fuel) it is to make the plane fly.
My grandpa flew F4s in Vietnam and he talks about this all the time. The new planes have digital screens, no windows for the boom crew to see or have depth of field, so that they can't actually tell the true location and position of the boom. It's disorienting.
This is the job I wanted when I initially enlisted. Maybe it’s a good thing I was “too short.” 😂
And today we see the mating cycle of two airplanes
"what are you doing step bro" -rwj
Boom operator: "You calm the fuck down! It was a misinput IT WAS A MISINPUT"
ive been in an active duty refueler (montrose air show) its insane
My grandfather served on KC-135's in Vietnam, he could probably still refuel a B-52 or F-111 faster than some drone or remote operator if it wasn't for his back problems
"Mom how do Cybertronian reproduce is it like this?" showing this clip.
Wouldn't be easier to make some sort of assist mechanism with laser precision coming from the fuel nozzle, to match with an aligner in the receiver, so the process would be a little easier
Why did I get excited watching this?😅
When a Daddy jet , and a mummy jet decide to have a baby 😂😂😂