I think a lot of people disliking PHP haven't used it in the last decade. I think it's a much more exciting language than people give it credit for, and the improvements in versions 7 and 8 really make it a very different language from the PHP most people remember.
php is fine until you need to transfer data from php to javascript, then it's a complete pain in the ass. That's why I personally prefer NodeJS as it smooths out the transition between the frontend and backend.
There is not such thing as "languages that are worth choosing for backend development". A lot of time has been invested in creating or developing those languages, regardless if you choose PHP, NodeJS, Python or Ruby. All of them have plenty to offer and all of them have some quirks and issues, so you can't go wrong with either one. The differences come when you start looking at libraries and frameworks and after the first six months or so you'll see that it's much more important to understand those than what language you picked: * Python is a great overall choice, as long as you're OK with the indentation. You have an excellent framework for building CRUD apps with Django and an excellent publishing platform with Plone, plus all the libraries for Maths. * NodeJS has a vibrant community with significant backing from very high-profile companies like Microsoft, Google or IBM, however a lot of things are still moving targets. The latest rage when it comes to frameworks is NestJS, but it's far from being beginner-friendly. Also, it seems like Typescript is eating the Javascript landscape so you might want to pick that up from the beginning. * Ruby isn't as popular as it was a decade ago, but its framework for building CRUD apps (Ruby on Rails) is arguably the best one there is. There's an excellent ecosystem around Ruby on Rails and you'd have to be *very* successful to need to migrate from Rails to something else. * PHP has been around for ages and I think there's some library or framework for everything because most of the web is built with PHP. I don't think any of the frameworks for building CRUD apps is as polished as Rails or Django, but you have several (Symfony, Laravel, Yii and others). One of the big advantages of PHP is that you can start with Wordpress themes and plugins and there's a huge market for that and there's a lot of work for Wordpress developers out there. There's a huge demand for any kind of developer, regardless of the language. The performance is excellent from either language as long as not running huge sites like Facebook or Twitter, but even then there might be some options. Just pick a book or an online course, spend 10-15 hours on each language and then see which one you liked most. If you have a friend to guide you, even better. Don't worry about what other people vote on Stack Overflow or what the Google Trends are.
This is some of the best advice. I used to spend a ton of time bouncing from article to video to article (and I still am, that's why I landed here!) on the best languages based on frameworks. Finally I decided to just stick with Python because that's what we're using in school, and started developing using Flask. It's fun so far! Never even thought about user authentication until this point. I'll probably build a few more things with it until I understand the back end better and then maybe move to PHP for the freelance opportunities.
This is the best analysis I never see before. Looking real data and not influenced from your personal preference. In a world of influencer. Thanks for your job.
people dont like to work in php because of "legacy" but that word is used wrong if you start a project now, with a modern framework things are just super fast to develop in and easy, with a huge comunity, and out of all langauges, i found the PHP docs soo much cleaner and easy to understand, with lots of examples JS is a hell of packages and code, had to interact with people on a project they wrote so much bad code....they didnt even know how to use a inline condition and i'm like "ok you like hype tech but in truth you dont know the basics"
I would tend to agree that frameworks like Laravel or even Symfony have changed the overall PHP experience. And generally speaking, there are proportionally more junior devs in JS than in PHP just because it is easier to pick up, so on *average* PHP code might well tend to be cleaner. But I generally find Typescript more fun/better to code with than PHP, and PHP better to code with than vanilla JS. :)
PHP is the Swiss Army Knife of scripting languages, it comes with everything you need built-in, you can code whole applications without any external libraries. PHP is also unbeatable when it comes to string and array manipulation.
PHP Frameworks like Laravel are better than any other framework for web development. 3 weeks ago I used both Express and Laravel for the same project. But the hell with EXPRESS external packages, version compatibilities, and the deployment failed my project after wasting 4 weeks. Once I turned back to laravel (PHP), my project was up and running within a week. So as a beginner or an intermediate developer, don't get excited with all those rubbish comparisons out there, choose mature technologies and move forward.
Unfortunately you did not mention or score the actual main usage of server side web application Ruby which is being used with the web framework Ruby on Rails and is the ideal solution for efficient ultra-quick creation of MVPs (minimum viable products) which is essential for creating any internet tech startup. With no other framework someone is up and running as fast an MVP. For creating a web application tech startup that has limited time and money (=all startups!), Ruby is clearly the No.1 choice.
As for me, C# is the best right after Game Pass that Microsoft has been developing recently. And probably only because it is so closely related to Microsoft, it is not more popular.
You start a project and you have to install Node, then Next, then write nextconfig in your root directory. Then there is another package for styling. The package requires you to write another config file in your root dir. Then you have to go to node's config file and import a function there and wrap the whole configuration with that function that comes from the styling package. JS is still very much behind PHP when it comes down to the environment. It is not as developer friendly and the frameworks are not as opinated which adds to the configuration hell since you have to choose your own ORM and such and, with all those choices, comes a myriad of configurations In general, PHP framworks are still miles ahead of what javascript has to offer IMO.
I’d tend to agree (at work we use Symfony) but I haven’t taken a close look at Remix yet. It certainly won’t have the level of maturity that PHP frameworks have, but it shows promise. :)
The vibes I get from the JS world is "you can do anything you want, just poorly compared to other options". Big names in the node world like Ryan Dahl and TJ Holowaychuk have been very vocal about node's inferiority compared to both new (e.g., Go) and mature (e.g., PHP) ecosystems alike, even going on record asking people to switch stacks.
It's one command to create a new next project. You can fiddle with bundlers if you want, but even then, vite has simple presets that make creating a new project a breeze. Php is just obsolete. Name one framework php has that isn't done better in js. Let alone what methods to include an external codebase into a php project. in node it's as easy as one npm/yarn command and it handles versioning to preserve compatibility across dev and regular dependencies. Then you can take your backend js code and use most of it on the frontend and have those devs understand and possibly even work on the backend too. Also, "you have to install node", as if you don't have to install php, or even python requiring an interpreter. You are right when you say js frameworks tend to not be very opinionated, but that's a refreshing change from php forcing you to go down a very narrow path where you have no control or ability to stray away from (and then breaks when a new php version comes because backwards compatibility is apparently not a thing in php). There's many reasons why no serious company in 2022 is looking at building anything with php. If it was more reliable, or faster, or simpler to build, they would be using it, period. After having used php extensively over the years, I can't even fathom going back to it. I'd even pick a python over php.
@@laztheripper not true many new companies are using PHP. Apple just used PHP. PHP is going strong. Nodejs is a mess. 1. Laravel, gets you everything you need to start a business for free out of the box. And has a great ecosystem to handle common pain points with running a service - Forge, Shift, Vapor, etc. The only thing I get from Django oob is basic auth and admin (and self documenting APIs with DRF). 2. Laravel uses other technologies I like, namely Vue and Tailwind. 3. The Laravel framework never feels like it’s in the way. If I need to do something atypical, it’s easy to do. 4. If I’m integrating with stuff like Wordpress and Xenforo, it’s nice to work in the same language and have the ability to share code. Holy fuck will I never use nodejs ecosystem for anything that handles money or critical. Unless you end up writing your own framework, the package quality, even for well known one, is hot garbage. We had to throw out socket.io library from a project because it turned out to be a major pain in the ass and just having breaking issues. And I'm not even talking dependency tree. We had over 1000 packages at first and we cleaned that out to something like 400 at the moment and we threw out some major packages because of shit quality (like we threw out Prometheus libs because there wasn't a single good one). Basically to make something quality, the amount of work to do is HUGE and it's expensive. Unless you literally roll in tech money or investment, you are not gonna pick nodejs as your tool as primary tool.
1) Php is not going strong, look at any metric available online. It's dropping like a brick and most companies who make anything that isn't a simple blog - where you need reactivity, websockets, or anything that isn't just a simple request->response model, aren't looking at php to solve this. The only reason it's still being used is because we have millions of legacy sites running it, and it's easier to just fix a few problems than reinvent the wheel for most people. 2) Usage, node (and now bun) are more efficient at concurrency. 3) Wordpress? You mean the joke of a framework that has more bugs than users? Every other day there's a new exploit on wordpress letting anyone just prance into your sensitive data. It's also slow, has a nightmare plugin system where every possible detail has a competing library to solve it that either 1) has more bugs 2) more exploits 3) conflicts with other parts of the system. 4) It is your problem if you or your team opted to install 400 node packages instead of writing your own code. No project should ever have more than ~20 packages, even if it's absolutely massive. And yes, that is the nature of installing that many packages from random sources. You will end up with some poorly architected code. The socket.io thing is one thing I'll agree with. I am a huge fan of websockets for everything (even login and forms) but I avoided socket.io even though it's one of the most recommended packages to get sockets going. That being said, here's an example of what I've made *on my own* which just goes to show that what you said about node being more costly isn't true. UI - svelte backend - nginx for static files (which is everything) client side routing (no loadings) nodejs behind my nginx reverse proxy relational db with redis as cache layer (most db queries therefore take under 2ms regardless of how complex they are) websockets to handle bidirectional data, meaning the server can push updates to the client without being polled for it some node API's to fetch live data in json, which means other sites and systems of mine can hit these endpoints for useful data if needed All of this makes for a site that can handle upwards of half a million clients at the same time and yet run on a 20$ a month vps, since most of the "work" is done client side. I'm no mad genius either, but I'll still wait for anyone to show me anything even close in php, even by whole teams thrown at it. Php is just built to render html on the server, and will always muddy the line between business logic and UI generation. Anyway, without going out of your way like I described, look how simple it is to get a site up using Remix, or Next, or Sveltekit, or CRA. It's one command and joe nobody can have a site up with the same coding knowledge needed to write the frontend code. He doesn't have to learn another language to get it done. I've even taken C++ compiled assembly and ported it to webasm, and it runs in the browser, 3d rendering, you name it. Then I took the same language and built multi-proxy, multi-client scrapers that don't need a browser/driver to work, full on proxy servers built in node that can simulate traffic, inject packets, block others. The options are limitless.
Good review but your salaries do seem to be a little off. I saw average internships working with php pay way more than that when I was applying. I think you should stick to one countries as a basis as I think different countries usage of each language probably threw that number off.
I think Ruby is on a descending phase, the higher salary might be an indication that there are fewer juniors so in the long run its popularity will get lower and lower (Cobol?). The good news is that it is still used in great companies. Its most popular web framework is trying to make war against the SPAs (hence the need for js is highly reduced on all stacks) and I'd really like it if it could win because I still think SPA everywhere is nonsensical.
I agree that the "SPA everywhere' mantra is dangerous. However even React, the SPA flagship, is moving away from the model with its current server-side features and integration with NextJS.
Python for ease of teaching new coworkers and debugging, unless someone goes import crazy. Otherwise PHP version 7 or 8. Just avoid versions before 7. This pertains to the USA.
I don't think PHP is the best programming language but too many developers say they hate it without ever using it on a regular basis, or at all. Also, the median income is going to be skewed, since there are so many more jobs for PHP. They have all the low paying jobs. If another language becomes as used as PHP, that language's median income will go down as well. Just the byproduct of success. Used enough languages to know no language is really all that bad.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I use PHP at work so I understand people's frustration with it (and it's not the latest shiny new thing) but it does what it does well ... which probably does explain the widespread adoption and the lower median salaries (also : I suspect there are lots of wordpress-only developpers who bring the salary down)
I feel like PHP is like a bad word these days, I use PHP and javascript for web projects, PHP does the server stuff, and javascript does the client side. Most hosting servers are PHP, if the client already has a server is probably PHP. Besides, it is not a big deal to learn another programming language if you already know 1.
I agree with almost everything, but I don't agree that the salary for PHP developers is lower than the other options. It depends on the company you work for more than anything. I live in Central America and I have a friend who was hired last year working with Node and React and he's earning $3,500 per month, then another one was hired with PHP earning $3,800. I've seen job posts on indeed every day in different countries paying $200 per hour to work on PHP in UK, I've seen many job offers paying a six figure salary to work on PHP just as much as they pay to work on Node, React, and the others. I'm not fan of any language, I'm actually learning JS, and the JS community always push for Node because they are more comfortable, but I'll go for PHP after learning JS. PHP is huge in Europe, Africa, Asia, and America, specially among many multi billion companies in those continents. I've also noticed many people saying PHP is dead or is going to die, but in the last 12 years its use has only increased, being used by 72% of the web on 2010, and by Dec 2021 by 78%, and mentioned in the video only wordpress has 30-40% of the Internet.
Hi! The salary aspect can't be based on perceptions or personal experiences. Of course, I'm sure what you said is totally true, however, the measure should be done as was intended in the video and that is with the average. You may go deeper and use the average in a specific city (not the same Paloalto, New Yor vs Des Moines or some other places). The point is, the salaries of the people I know may or may not fit the average, the percentiles vary depending on many factors, but the average is the average, even if we agree or not.
And the salaries mentioned are actually the mean salary, over the survey, not the average one. And even if it was an average, it does not mean that PHP salaries are always lower in every case :)
I would say I agree. Pretty much all web technologies (like PHP, JS, Rubby, Python etc.) are paid the same amount. The only difference is the company which pays you out. As a PHP dev I earn about $10k, and I know people who earn a lot more doing PHP also. I know people doing Java, C, C# earning a lot less than I do, but that's only because of the company they work in.
@@helloworld7796 sorry to bother. I know it depends on the company as we mentioned, but which skills you consider one should learn in order to earn that much or higher? I know HTML, CSS, and learning JS. I then plan to learn PHP, Laravel, MySQL, and Wordpress... anything else you would recommend, please? Thank you in advance.
PHP being popular doesn't mean PHP developers are getting paid more, it's actually the other way around. Much of the labor force contributing to these stats are from a) places like South Asia and Africa, where labor is cheap and b) your average just another brick in the wall workers who aren't paid handsomely to begin with. This is precisely why we use median -- to identify the actual situation for average people like you and me. Unless you're under the false impression that you're better than everyone else, this shouldn't be too hard to wrap your head around.
I don't think there is no ideal language, I choose my languages depending on the project. For example I use two languages, JS and Python. If I have to develop a website or Mobile app I go for JS and if I have a project that handles large data and models I go for Python. I do have some experience with PHP because I had to learn at school. But I decided to stick with JS and Python because most projects I get are fit for these languages.
Many developer dislike php because with each upgrade something is broken. When a team is too big it becomes clumsy and difficult to coordinate. More people are looking towards Node.Js.
The bare-minimum of back-end? I would suggest PHP. It's very native for the web and you can see more transparently what's happening on the client-server communication. Other languages have tons of abstrations and libraries to make them work on the web, you will get confused to learn what's "essential" about back-end and what's specific of the language/framework.
Hello Sir, I will like you to help me analyze if Kotlin is worth learning, based on all these same metrics you used in this Video. Thanks Sir, for this eye opening analysis.
@@KodapsAcademy Thank You very much Sir, for this reply. The straight question to ask is this--- would I have a future if I choose to become solely a Kotlin Developer?
Well, Id add PHP is much much better from the old one. And Python is really slow and inefficient compered to other languages. Javascript (ts) has the best module import system, followed by PHP with Composer. Dont know ruby, but Python imports mostly dont work or too much configuration is needed. So Python should go down a little...
Thank you for this video, i think its really important in time, when much people say that you dont get job, because language which you choose is trash. I choose PHP. i really havent known which one i had to choose, but i did. And now, when i get my first job, really lovely job with good people and good code. I hear that "you have to switch language, because php is dying and much company choose js because js faster and development faster and another ." Just. I just want grow up, and become better. But i dont know, will i be able to be in good place with good knowledge of PHP, in future
PHP has 10x more market share than it’s closest rival. It’s not dying, at least not yet. It’s just … unfashionable, in a world where we are always looking at the latest brightest shiny new thing. But 80% of market share means PHP still has a long life ahead of it.
@@KodapsAcademy sure, you couldn't be the only one .... ...but really pretty much everything is built in.... Imagine making a simple blog site and installing several modules and then imagine a language where everything is just there no need to search for any extra modules.... For example let's talk about html parser..almost in every other language mentioned you need to use an external library, modules but guess what PHP has a build in functional for that..like it's not even that necessary to be a build in function but it's there
Actually that’s not quite true. The HipHop compiler was discontinued, they’ve now moved to the HipHop virtual machine that uses Hack which is a dialect of PHP. However initially it was built on PHP :)
I think it would be interesting to put together a UA-cam video that shows what is necessary to convert a PHP, Ruby, or Python Web Application to NodeJS or something else. Because that's facing the creators of Web Applications. The original Web App is written in {PHP, Python, Ruby} and newer platforms are generally better (because they've learned from the mistakes of the mature veterans). So what should developers be thinking about when trying to decide whether to stay with the legacy programming platform or switch to a new one?
well i can see most of the data is inaccurate in this video. specially salaries.. i never came across a job posting for php laravel that pays less than 80K.
@@som5698743 If Ruby is faster than Python, then why did so many companies drop it, but many modern backends are still written in Python? I’m not saying your answer is wrong, I’m just genuinely curious
In general does speed really matter? I feel everything is so fast that a few millisec here and there really doesn't matter. Or does it? Does 10 thousand lines of code take more seconds? Minutes? depending on the language? Or is it literally millisecond differences? I really would like to know.
PHP has gotten significantly faster and version 8.1 has shot it up. It is definitely faster than ruby and probably more on par with Python/Cython now. That's my opinion.
I think a lot of people disliking PHP haven't used it in the last decade. I think it's a much more exciting language than people give it credit for, and the improvements in versions 7 and 8 really make it a very different language from the PHP most people remember.
That doesnt change anything about the existing codebases, you actually deal with in your job.
php is fine until you need to transfer data from php to javascript, then it's a complete pain in the ass. That's why I personally prefer NodeJS as it smooths out the transition between the frontend and backend.
@@TheMidnightillusion I'll grant you that's not much fun in vanilla PHP, but all of the major frameworks make this a non issue.
@@TheMidnightillusion no. What are you talking about?
It has improved and become a respectable language. 👍
Coming back to Ruby after 10 years away. It's my happy place. Find the language that inspires you and make yourself happy.
Fair and balanced review of these four languages - something that (incredibly) is difficult to find online. Cheers and keep up the good work!
Thanks for the encouraging feedback! :)
lol no
There is not such thing as "languages that are worth choosing for backend development". A lot of time has been invested in creating or developing those languages, regardless if you choose PHP, NodeJS, Python or Ruby. All of them have plenty to offer and all of them have some quirks and issues, so you can't go wrong with either one.
The differences come when you start looking at libraries and frameworks and after the first six months or so you'll see that it's much more important to understand those than what language you picked:
* Python is a great overall choice, as long as you're OK with the indentation. You have an excellent framework for building CRUD apps with Django and an excellent publishing platform with Plone, plus all the libraries for Maths.
* NodeJS has a vibrant community with significant backing from very high-profile companies like Microsoft, Google or IBM, however a lot of things are still moving targets. The latest rage when it comes to frameworks is NestJS, but it's far from being beginner-friendly. Also, it seems like Typescript is eating the Javascript landscape so you might want to pick that up from the beginning.
* Ruby isn't as popular as it was a decade ago, but its framework for building CRUD apps (Ruby on Rails) is arguably the best one there is. There's an excellent ecosystem around Ruby on Rails and you'd have to be *very* successful to need to migrate from Rails to something else.
* PHP has been around for ages and I think there's some library or framework for everything because most of the web is built with PHP. I don't think any of the frameworks for building CRUD apps is as polished as Rails or Django, but you have several (Symfony, Laravel, Yii and others). One of the big advantages of PHP is that you can start with Wordpress themes and plugins and there's a huge market for that and there's a lot of work for Wordpress developers out there.
There's a huge demand for any kind of developer, regardless of the language. The performance is excellent from either language as long as not running huge sites like Facebook or Twitter, but even then there might be some options. Just pick a book or an online course, spend 10-15 hours on each language and then see which one you liked most. If you have a friend to guide you, even better. Don't worry about what other people vote on Stack Overflow or what the Google Trends are.
Perfectly said!
This is some of the best advice.
I used to spend a ton of time bouncing from article to video to article (and I still am, that's why I landed here!) on the best languages based on frameworks. Finally I decided to just stick with Python because that's what we're using in school, and started developing using Flask. It's fun so far! Never even thought about user authentication until this point. I'll probably build a few more things with it until I understand the back end better and then maybe move to PHP for the freelance opportunities.
Great explanation there. I believe every language has it's pros and cons but ultimately they all achieve their specific design purpose
This is the best analysis I never see before. Looking real data and not influenced from your personal preference. In a world of influencer. Thanks for your job.
Glad to be of service, thanks for your kind words!
people dont like to work in php because of "legacy" but that word is used wrong
if you start a project now, with a modern framework things are just super fast to develop in and easy, with a huge comunity, and out of all langauges, i found the PHP docs soo much cleaner and easy to understand, with lots of examples
JS is a hell of packages and code, had to interact with people on a project they wrote so much bad code....they didnt even know how to use a inline condition and i'm like "ok you like hype tech but in truth you dont know the basics"
I would tend to agree that frameworks like Laravel or even Symfony have changed the overall PHP experience. And generally speaking, there are proportionally more junior devs in JS than in PHP just because it is easier to pick up, so on *average* PHP code might well tend to be cleaner. But I generally find Typescript more fun/better to code with than PHP, and PHP better to code with than vanilla JS. :)
I really love your delivery style! It feels like we are having a cup of coffee together.
Plus the information is just what I was looking for.
Thank you (very much!) for your kind words, I'm glad to be of service:)
PHP is the Swiss Army Knife of scripting languages, it comes with everything you need built-in, you can code whole applications without any external libraries. PHP is also unbeatable when it comes to string and array manipulation.
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Could you explain "unbeatable when it comes to string and array manipulation"?
PHP Frameworks like Laravel are better than any other framework for web development. 3 weeks ago I used both Express and Laravel for the same project. But the hell with EXPRESS external packages, version compatibilities, and the deployment failed my project after wasting 4 weeks. Once I turned back to laravel (PHP), my project was up and running within a week.
So as a beginner or an intermediate developer, don't get excited with all those rubbish comparisons out there, choose mature technologies and move forward.
Laravel have everything I need to make a robust website in the shortest amount of time.
👍
Unfortunately you did not mention or score the actual main usage of server side web application Ruby which is being used with the web framework Ruby on Rails and is the ideal solution for efficient ultra-quick creation of MVPs (minimum viable products) which is essential for creating any internet tech startup. With no other framework someone is up and running as fast an MVP. For creating a web application tech startup that has limited time and money (=all startups!), Ruby is clearly the No.1 choice.
Interesting.
I'd honestly be interested to see how C# and Java compare on these same metrics
As for me, C# is the best right after Game Pass that Microsoft has been developing recently. And probably only because it is so closely related to Microsoft, it is not more popular.
Microthot fanboy detected.
@@carldrogo9492 😅😅
sometimes i feel like going to sleep when i listen your voice its like meditation
I've literally been searching for exactly this kind of video. Thank you sooo much
You start a project and you have to install Node, then Next, then write nextconfig in your root directory. Then there is another package for styling. The package requires you to write another config file in your root dir. Then you have to go to node's config file and import a function there and wrap the whole configuration with that function that comes from the styling package.
JS is still very much behind PHP when it comes down to the environment. It is not as developer friendly and the frameworks are not as opinated which adds to the configuration hell since you have to choose your own ORM and such and, with all those choices, comes a myriad of configurations
In general, PHP framworks are still miles ahead of what javascript has to offer IMO.
I’d tend to agree (at work we use Symfony) but I haven’t taken a close look at Remix yet. It certainly won’t have the level of maturity that PHP frameworks have, but it shows promise. :)
The vibes I get from the JS world is "you can do anything you want, just poorly compared to other options". Big names in the node world like Ryan Dahl and TJ Holowaychuk have been very vocal about node's inferiority compared to both new (e.g., Go) and mature (e.g., PHP) ecosystems alike, even going on record asking people to switch stacks.
It's one command to create a new next project. You can fiddle with bundlers if you want, but even then, vite has simple presets that make creating a new project a breeze.
Php is just obsolete. Name one framework php has that isn't done better in js. Let alone what methods to include an external codebase into a php project. in node it's as easy as one npm/yarn command and it handles versioning to preserve compatibility across dev and regular dependencies. Then you can take your backend js code and use most of it on the frontend and have those devs understand and possibly even work on the backend too. Also, "you have to install node", as if you don't have to install php, or even python requiring an interpreter. You are right when you say js frameworks tend to not be very opinionated, but that's a refreshing change from php forcing you to go down a very narrow path where you have no control or ability to stray away from (and then breaks when a new php version comes because backwards compatibility is apparently not a thing in php). There's many reasons why no serious company in 2022 is looking at building anything with php. If it was more reliable, or faster, or simpler to build, they would be using it, period. After having used php extensively over the years, I can't even fathom going back to it. I'd even pick a python over php.
@@laztheripper not true many new companies are using PHP. Apple just used PHP. PHP is going strong. Nodejs is a mess.
1. Laravel, gets you everything you need to start a business for free out of the box. And has a great ecosystem to handle common pain points with running a service - Forge, Shift, Vapor, etc. The only thing I get from Django oob is basic auth and admin (and self documenting APIs with DRF).
2. Laravel uses other technologies I like, namely Vue and Tailwind.
3. The Laravel framework never feels like it’s in the way. If I need to do something atypical, it’s easy to do.
4. If I’m integrating with stuff like Wordpress and Xenforo, it’s nice to work in the same language and have the ability to share code.
Holy fuck will I never use nodejs ecosystem for anything that handles money or critical. Unless you end up writing your own framework, the package quality, even for well known one, is hot garbage. We had to throw out socket.io library from a project because it turned out to be a major pain in the ass and just having breaking issues. And I'm not even talking dependency tree. We had over 1000 packages at first and we cleaned that out to something like 400 at the moment and we threw out some major packages because of shit quality (like we threw out Prometheus libs because there wasn't a single good one).
Basically to make something quality, the amount of work to do is HUGE and it's expensive. Unless you literally roll in tech money or investment, you are not gonna pick nodejs as your tool as primary tool.
1) Php is not going strong, look at any metric available online. It's dropping like a brick and most companies who make anything that isn't a simple blog - where you need reactivity, websockets, or anything that isn't just a simple request->response model, aren't looking at php to solve this. The only reason it's still being used is because we have millions of legacy sites running it, and it's easier to just fix a few problems than reinvent the wheel for most people.
2) Usage, node (and now bun) are more efficient at concurrency.
3) Wordpress? You mean the joke of a framework that has more bugs than users? Every other day there's a new exploit on wordpress letting anyone just prance into your sensitive data. It's also slow, has a nightmare plugin system where every possible detail has a competing library to solve it that either 1) has more bugs 2) more exploits 3) conflicts with other parts of the system.
4) It is your problem if you or your team opted to install 400 node packages instead of writing your own code. No project should ever have more than ~20 packages, even if it's absolutely massive. And yes, that is the nature of installing that many packages from random sources. You will end up with some poorly architected code.
The socket.io thing is one thing I'll agree with. I am a huge fan of websockets for everything (even login and forms) but I avoided socket.io even though it's one of the most recommended packages to get sockets going. That being said, here's an example of what I've made *on my own* which just goes to show that what you said about node being more costly isn't true.
UI - svelte
backend - nginx for static files (which is everything)
client side routing (no loadings)
nodejs behind my nginx reverse proxy
relational db with redis as cache layer (most db queries therefore take under 2ms regardless of how complex they are)
websockets to handle bidirectional data, meaning the server can push updates to the client without being polled for it
some node API's to fetch live data in json, which means other sites and systems of mine can hit these endpoints for useful data if needed
All of this makes for a site that can handle upwards of half a million clients at the same time and yet run on a 20$ a month vps, since most of the "work" is done client side.
I'm no mad genius either, but I'll still wait for anyone to show me anything even close in php, even by whole teams thrown at it.
Php is just built to render html on the server, and will always muddy the line between business logic and UI generation.
Anyway, without going out of your way like I described, look how simple it is to get a site up using Remix, or Next, or Sveltekit, or CRA. It's one command and joe nobody can have a site up with the same coding knowledge needed to write the frontend code. He doesn't have to learn another language to get it done. I've even taken C++ compiled assembly and ported it to webasm, and it runs in the browser, 3d rendering, you name it. Then I took the same language and built multi-proxy, multi-client scrapers that don't need a browser/driver to work, full on proxy servers built in node that can simulate traffic, inject packets, block others. The options are limitless.
exactly what i needed , no less no more. Thank you sir.
Thank you indeed for your very straight forward analysis - by the way you are having very polite and lovely voice. Good Luck
Good review but your salaries do seem to be a little off. I saw average internships working with php pay way more than that when I was applying. I think you should stick to one countries as a basis as I think different countries usage of each language probably threw that number off.
I think Ruby is on a descending phase, the higher salary might be an indication that there are fewer juniors so in the long run its popularity will get lower and lower (Cobol?). The good news is that it is still used in great companies. Its most popular web framework is trying to make war against the SPAs (hence the need for js is highly reduced on all stacks) and I'd really like it if it could win because I still think SPA everywhere is nonsensical.
I agree that the "SPA everywhere' mantra is dangerous. However even React, the SPA flagship, is moving away from the model with its current server-side features and integration with NextJS.
Rubbish, SPA is the future.
Finally found what I was looking for! The bot is the best of th
Thank youuui, I have liked and subscribed! Love your analys 😘
I'm glad you liked it, glad to be of service!
Python for ease of teaching new coworkers and debugging, unless someone goes import crazy.
Otherwise PHP version 7 or 8. Just avoid versions before 7. This pertains to the USA.
For me Javascript and Python are my chosen languages, mainly because of versatility. Javascript for frontend and python for ml
I don't think PHP is the best programming language but too many developers say they hate it without ever using it on a regular basis, or at all. Also, the median income is going to be skewed, since there are so many more jobs for PHP. They have all the low paying jobs. If another language becomes as used as PHP, that language's median income will go down as well. Just the byproduct of success.
Used enough languages to know no language is really all that bad.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I use PHP at work so I understand people's frustration with it (and it's not the latest shiny new thing) but it does what it does well ... which probably does explain the widespread adoption and the lower median salaries (also : I suspect there are lots of wordpress-only developpers who bring the salary down)
The average php dev salary is only brought down by the spaghetti wordpress devs. That doesn’t mean a proper developer will earn less.
I feel like PHP is like a bad word these days, I use PHP and javascript for web projects, PHP does the server stuff, and javascript does the client side. Most hosting servers are PHP, if the client already has a server is probably PHP. Besides, it is not a big deal to learn another programming language if you already know 1.
I agree with almost everything, but I don't agree that the salary for PHP developers is lower than the other options. It depends on the company you work for more than anything. I live in Central America and I have a friend who was hired last year working with Node and React and he's earning $3,500 per month, then another one was hired with PHP earning $3,800. I've seen job posts on indeed every day in different countries paying $200 per hour to work on PHP in UK, I've seen many job offers paying a six figure salary to work on PHP just as much as they pay to work on Node, React, and the others.
I'm not fan of any language, I'm actually learning JS, and the JS community always push for Node because they are more comfortable, but I'll go for PHP after learning JS. PHP is huge in Europe, Africa, Asia, and America, specially among many multi billion companies in those continents. I've also noticed many people saying PHP is dead or is going to die, but in the last 12 years its use has only increased, being used by 72% of the web on 2010, and by Dec 2021 by 78%, and mentioned in the video only wordpress has 30-40% of the Internet.
Hi!
The salary aspect can't be based on perceptions or personal experiences. Of course, I'm sure what you said is totally true, however, the measure should be done as was intended in the video and that is with the average. You may go deeper and use the average in a specific city (not the same Paloalto, New Yor vs Des Moines or some other places). The point is, the salaries of the people I know may or may not fit the average, the percentiles vary depending on many factors, but the average is the average, even if we agree or not.
And the salaries mentioned are actually the mean salary, over the survey, not the average one. And even if it was an average, it does not mean that PHP salaries are always lower in every case :)
I would say I agree. Pretty much all web technologies (like PHP, JS, Rubby, Python etc.) are paid the same amount. The only difference is the company which pays you out. As a PHP dev I earn about $10k, and I know people who earn a lot more doing PHP also. I know people doing Java, C, C# earning a lot less than I do, but that's only because of the company they work in.
@@helloworld7796 sorry to bother. I know it depends on the company as we mentioned, but which skills you consider one should learn in order to earn that much or higher? I know HTML, CSS, and learning JS. I then plan to learn PHP, Laravel, MySQL, and Wordpress... anything else you would recommend, please? Thank you in advance.
PHP being popular doesn't mean PHP developers are getting paid more, it's actually the other way around. Much of the labor force contributing to these stats are from a) places like South Asia and Africa, where labor is cheap and b) your average just another brick in the wall workers who aren't paid handsomely to begin with. This is precisely why we use median -- to identify the actual situation for average people like you and me. Unless you're under the false impression that you're better than everyone else, this shouldn't be too hard to wrap your head around.
That's a very good video .. Thank you man
I am focusing on web development. i am missing project and lack of good ideas. can you suggest some good ideas, i'm in tphcm, vietnam. Best regards !
Hotel management system
quiz app
e commerce
News websites like IDN times and others
I don't think there is no ideal language, I choose my languages depending on the project. For example I use two languages, JS and Python. If I have to develop a website or Mobile app I go for JS and if I have a project that handles large data and models I go for Python. I do have some experience with PHP because I had to learn at school. But I decided to stick with JS and Python because most projects I get are fit for these languages.
I use PHP and if PHP dies in the next 10 or 20 years is the last thing I should care right now.
Many developer dislike php because with each upgrade something is broken. When a team is too big it becomes clumsy and difficult to coordinate. More people are looking towards Node.Js.
Super comparaison !
What is the best solution for someone who isn't interested in back end development and only wants to know the bare minimum?
I'd go for something like Next JS or Remix :)
The bare-minimum of back-end? I would suggest PHP. It's very native for the web and you can see more transparently what's happening on the client-server communication. Other languages have tons of abstrations and libraries to make them work on the web, you will get confused to learn what's "essential" about back-end and what's specific of the language/framework.
Try Haskell 😂😂 You will appreciate all of these much more..
This video was Perfect!
The way you summed it up at the end, 10/10. I subscribed!
Glad you liked it, and welcome on board :)
I thank you for that very good overview!
Hello Sir,
I will like you to help me analyze if Kotlin is worth learning, based on all these same metrics you used in this Video.
Thanks Sir, for this eye opening analysis.
In the Stack overflow dev survey, Kotlin was used by 9% of respondants, was liked by 64% (vs dreaded bu 36%), and the median yearly salary is 70k USD,
@@KodapsAcademy Thank You very much Sir, for this reply. The straight question to ask is this--- would I have a future if I choose to become solely a Kotlin Developer?
Well, Id add PHP is much much better from the old one.
And Python is really slow and inefficient compered to other languages.
Javascript (ts) has the best module import system, followed by PHP with Composer. Dont know ruby, but Python imports mostly dont work or too much configuration is needed.
So Python should go down a little...
Thank you for this video, i think its really important in time, when much people say that you dont get job, because language which you choose is trash.
I choose PHP. i really havent known which one i had to choose, but i did.
And now, when i get my first job, really lovely job with good people and good code.
I hear that "you have to switch language, because php is dying and much company choose js because js faster and development faster and another ."
Just.
I just want grow up, and become
better.
But i dont know, will i be able to be in good place with good knowledge of PHP, in future
PHP has 10x more market share than it’s closest rival. It’s not dying, at least not yet. It’s just … unfashionable, in a world where we are always looking at the latest brightest shiny new thing. But 80% of market share means PHP still has a long life ahead of it.
Php has everything built in.... doesn't require you to install several packages
Have you heard of composer ? :)
@@KodapsAcademy sure, you couldn't be the only one .... ...but really pretty much everything is built in....
Imagine making a simple blog site and installing several modules and then imagine a language where everything is just there no need to search for any extra modules....
For example let's talk about html parser..almost in every other language mentioned you need to use an external library, modules but guess what PHP has a build in functional for that..like it's not even that necessary to be a build in function but it's there
Love, love, love... should I say more!
Thanks :)
so beautiful presenting Style
Thank you so much !! ;)
users
dude, when you pause, I feel like you're waiting for me to say something ...
And when I pause... do you... say anything ?... :P
@@KodapsAcademy LOOL.. no, just a feeling :-) thanks for the video
Facebook uses a compiled version of php called hphp.
Actually that’s not quite true. The HipHop compiler was discontinued, they’ve now moved to the HipHop virtual machine that uses Hack which is a dialect of PHP. However initially it was built on PHP :)
I think it would be interesting to put together a UA-cam video that shows what is necessary to convert a PHP, Ruby, or Python Web Application to NodeJS or something else. Because that's facing the creators of Web Applications. The original Web App is written in {PHP, Python, Ruby} and newer platforms are generally better (because they've learned from the mistakes of the mature veterans).
So what should developers be thinking about when trying to decide whether to stay with the legacy programming platform or switch to a new one?
interesting video, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
well i can see most of the data is inaccurate in this video. specially salaries.. i never came across a job posting for php laravel that pays less than 80K.
Take that up with StackOverflow if you want. Don’t forget this is worldwide data. I certainly know of PHP salaries lower than 50 k USD in Europe.
Im shocked. This is a decent vid.
I don't know if I should be flattered that you're shocked the video is decent, but I'll take it as a compliment :D
@@KodapsAcademy i meant you did a decent job!
@@supremecodr961 don’t worry, I understood what you meant :)
Um, NodeJS isn't a programming language. JavaScript is a programming language. NodeJS is an application that provides a JavaScript runtime.
Node JS is JavaScript Runtime environment.
🦸♀The feeling when you take a bite on PHP-swoole.
rust is higher than ruby. dude, rust is HARD!!
This is amazing 🤩
Glad you liked it :)
nodejs isn't a language, it's a runtime.
I already know 3 of em.
Awesome
Glad to be of service !
cool video)
Thanks :)
That approval rating statistic is complete BS
Care to provide some more substance, ie a more solid argument as to why it “BS” ?
ruby is better
Php is waste of time
PHP pays the bills for quite a few people :)
In order based on speed slowest to fastest:
PHP -> Ruby -> Python -> Node
Wrong, regarding the current language versions: python => Ruby => PHP => js
@@som5698743 If Ruby is faster than Python, then why did so many companies drop it, but many modern backends are still written in Python? I’m not saying your answer is wrong, I’m just genuinely curious
In general does speed really matter? I feel everything is so fast that a few millisec here and there really doesn't matter. Or does it? Does 10 thousand lines of code take more seconds? Minutes? depending on the language? Or is it literally millisecond differences? I really would like to know.
@@mritz579 Yes. Speed matters. Especially as things scale.
PHP has gotten significantly faster and version 8.1 has shot it up. It is definitely faster than ruby and probably more on par with Python/Cython now. That's my opinion.
Thank you. It really works