THE OTHER GUYS TORQUE TEST- 454 CHEVY VS 455 BUICK VS 500 CADILLAC! PLUS TURBO 4.8L LS (ALL TORQUE)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- WHICH BIG BLOCKS MAKE THE MOST TORQUE? DOES A 454 CHEVY MAKE MORE TORQUE THAN A 455 BUICK? HOW MUCH TORQUE DOES A 500-INCH CADILLAC MAKE? DOES A CADILLAC MAKE MORE TORQUE THAN A 455 BUICK? WHO IS THE TORQUE KING? IS THERE A REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT? CAN A TURBO LS MAKE MORE TORQUE THAN A BBC? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO (PART 3 ON TORQUE PRODUCTION) TO SEE HOW THE GEN 5 AND 6 454 CHEVY COMPARES TO A BUICK 455 AND A 500-INCH CADILLAC. THEN SEE IF A TURBO 4.8L CAN COMPETE WITH THESE BIG MOTORS (THEN THE 454 GETS BOOST!)
Torque rules I’ve been drag racing a 524 inch Cadillac since 1988 5000 rpm redline torque is king.
Hey Jerry, what are you running it in?
Tell us more, very interesting!
I want more info, your ride sounds fun!
More info?
Buick man, Buick!
I’d love to see a 455 Olds get tested. Simple and cheap non OD transmissions, highways gears, and low speed torque production rules! Im building a 455 Olds now that I’m going stuff in my old Chevy pickup. It just may get boosted.
Thanks for including the Caddy 500. The "Big Inch Cadillac" book gave a lot of good info including offset grinding stock crank. The lack of aftermarket heads kind of sucks but being ~100lbs lighter than a BB Chevy gives a nice hp to weight boost ;)
I wish it was as cheap and easy to build a transmission to handle 900 ftlb of torque as it is to build the engine to produce it.
It is, ua-cam.com/video/8qaRTmEvAI4/v-deo.html
Just put a 6r80/6l80 behind it!
4l80 for the win!
Absolutely, you're dead on. I built a TH400 for my 460 (454 bored 0.030 over), went out and broke second gear one day, parked it and bought a FTI performance TH400. It made my truck come alive, full manual and reverse valve body. The most fun you can have with your clothes on....and was reasonably priced. Also, put in a 3700 stall converter, the best combination I've ever had it is scary fast, 1987 short bed Chevy.
Oh yeah, transbrake too. If you've never had a transbrake...too cool.
I have a 406 SBC that makes 550 ft lbs of torque and 540 Hp all below 6000 rpm. Its friggin amazing. The SBC is still amazing to me after 40 years of building and running them.
Let's do boosted Olds BB, I have done several and had great results. Currently doing a junkyard style build right now.
What displacement? I love olds v8s despite being a huge Ford nut. Ive got a 403 olds in my el co
Me too I'm interested In an olds build
I too, would totally dog seeing a 455 on boost!
@@madmod Have done both 455 and 350 with "C" casting heads. The BB doesn't rev so just use tall rear end gears so you can utilize all that torque.
Oh shit the 455 buick is coming back.. Do the buick all the way when you get a chance Richard show them Raw power.. Yes i do know that Buick is very pricey and im actually in the TA Performance "Buick Gods" state and I have built a 455 myself but the power is there and many of modifications should be very interesting
Richard are you going to finish off the Buick 455 testing?
yes-as a Stage 1
I read from an old rat rod (I believe) years ago, where they offset ground a 500 caddy crank to fit chevy big block rods and got 540 cubic inches. Would love to see a modern day build and dyno on something like that!
it's hard get 540 inches out of a 4.25-bore block
@@richardholdener1727 if I recall, the article stated the caddy 500 rods are cast. So they wanted to use some forged BBC rods, but they are a smaller journal than the caddy. They took the crank and offset ground the journals to fit the bbc rods, AND made it a stroker crank, with a. 030 bore clean up,, made it 540 cu inches.. I'll try and find the article and link it.
@@thomaseverley3847 yep moons ago I read articles that at that time were old timers walk .. they did all those cross overs from back in the 30- 40s
@@richardholdener1727 4.304 is the stock bore I believe. Don't know how much overbore it can stand though.
Smokey once said Torque wins races, Horsepower sells engines.
He also said, torque is how much work an engine can do. Horsepower is how fast it can do the work.
Torque gets the tire spinning hp.keeps it spinning
There is still no way around the law,.... NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
Everything you do to a 4.8L, when applied to a 7.4L, will make compounded more numbers. Period.
Exactly
Tho it’s probably way cheaper to make say, 700 hp with a 4.8 and a turbo, than with a 454.
@@andrewmontgomery1763 no they cost the same going turbo route
@@infamousnova from what I understand, a stock 4.8 with a turbo will handle 700 hp fine, but any of the stock BBCs will not, and require forged pistons and rods probably, making it more expensive.
@@andrewmontgomery1763 no the bbc will handle the same and more
460?
Right?
I´ve thought the same!
Peak is peak for sure very close. , I feel the torque of the old motors examples here , held higher torque Thru out the curve ..
Would love to see what a 88 to 98 EFI 460 would do with headers and optimized tune.
Me and my brother took a stock EFI 460 added a 60mm turbo, Vortex FMU, retarded the timing 4 degrees, stock ECU on 10psi. Made 350WHP and went mid 13's in a 2wd F250. In stock trim only made 165WHP.
ua-cam.com/video/YgFptwe-lwU/v-deo.html
Not much. The cam is pretty much non existent and the ecu can’t really accommodate anything decent due to the strategy it uses.
I’ve got a mega squirt based pimp ecu im swapping into my 95, with the expectation of building a 521 for it here soon
455 Oldsmobile was a great engine. I had a junkyard replacement in a 72 Cutlass supreme back in the 80' s. Man I miss that one. Drove for a couple years on the junkyard motor till number two rod began to rattle. Pulled motor put an arrow steel crank one new rod, resized others a rebuild kit. Comp cam kit 280H flat tappet 490, lift . I dogged heck out of it for years. Tough motor it had 76cc heads I believe. Was a bear on torque.
Probably important information to know what year that Buick 455 is from. There are easy ways to tell what the original application and year was. It looks like with those power numbers its probably a low compression later 70's version. A 1970 455 would have 10.5:1 compression and should have had significantly more power than that in stock trim
70 buick gs stage 1 455 was gms highest torque motor i drove one its impressive stock right off idle will fry the tires through all 3 gears
The Stage 1 was rated at 510 lb;ft.....the 500 was rated at 550 lb.ft
I'd like to see that 500 Cady with a turbo and torque numbers
I am still disappointed we never got to see that turbo Caddy throw down 1000ft-lbs. It was so close!!
We run a stroked to 505" RB Mopar. It makes crazy torque! Then we added a 250 shot of nitrous. 6500 redline. You don't need the loose converter and deep gears with a combo like this. We've been 1.36 60 ft in a 3,700 lbs. car with an 11" converter and 3.54 gears. It found all the weak parts in the drivetrain!
Southeast performance RT built an aluminum 440 and sent it to a guy in Australia. He got a call from the guy with a BUILT dart who got the engine. "WHAT DID YOU BUILD ME!!!!" Turns out it left the driveshaft behind completely. Which means it ripped first the rear universal, then the front universal.
Now the Nissan vk56 is becoming popular nice to see a na turbo and nos motor to see what is capable
I had a 72 Buick skylark in high school in the late 80s. It had the stage 1 430 big block in it. Thing was scary!! Sooooo much torque. I sheared the bolts in the ring gear twice. My dad finally welded ring gear solid! I don't have any numbers on it but I know I was a bad ass.
I'm all about displacement.
Having had both BB and boosted dailys & pickups is how I base that. It takes next to no money to go past 600lbs of torque and still drive like stock on midgrade pump gas.
The pull is there right off idle, the stock engine internals were designed for high loads, and their low rpm nature makes them last Forever.
I freely admit the fuel economy isn't there but it takes a lot of driving to offset the cost of a boosted small displacement engine.
And Just how many drive either for economy anyways?
I've had a 59 stepside Apache since 94 moved, married, divorced lol kids ECT.. truck is all original but motor(72 350 2 bolt) and tranny 350 turbo with shift kit and z gate on the floor 2700-3000 10 in stall flame thrower hei Edelbrock rpm and 750 tight tuck 15/8 to 2 1/2 out back rear end isn't posi 6 bolt what would you recommend if I wanted to take it to the track next spring (rear end) I built the motor in 98 I believe?
I have a question:
Boost makes extra power due to the differential between atmospheric pressure and whatever the compressor can create.
Can vacuum create the same effect?
If we run the exhaust into a vacuum plenum, do we get more power from the scavenging?
Has anyone made "negative boost" on the exhaust side?
The porno music on the intro always slays me. Engines on the dyno does actually qualify as porn for us car guys though!!😂😂 so I guess it's appropriate!😂😂
Making torque an USEABLE torque! Easy driving with a BB an pulling something heavy that 4.8 would be ringing it’s neck to keep up but it eventually would go by it. Thanks for the infotainment Richard!! 👍🏻👍🏻
As usual no Big block Ford in the mix
maybe look at he BBC Ford playlist
what was the point of this? we know power adders make power. put the power adders on the caddy and buick motors now that would be fun. 50 year old motors against the new guys
Damn, how did i miss this video.Oh well better late than never.Go caddy.
403 Olds with early 350 heads and a small cam might surprise you...
Too bad you dont have a 10.25 olds 455 to test. Talk about low end grunt. Just a fresh up ,headders and a modern mild cam 375 horse and Tq way up there.
Oldsmobile 455 kicked to the curb again!
Hahaha give it up Olds! BUICK rules this class
These olds & pontiac guys 🙄
BUICK rules these streets
When you add a big efficient motor AND big amounts of boost what you get is my grudge motor lol. 👍 Never had this particular setup on an engine dyno but based on chassis #’s and trap speed I can tell you first hand the big inch LS engines built right with even moderately sized turbos will make in the 2000 range while remaining streetable. I’m sure even a lot more than that is possible with what I would consider large turbos and maybe even more displacement. You don’t always need a big block though that’s for sure.
OK, so take a larger CI engine "Built right", and add all that stuff on it that you have on your LS. Which will have more HP and torque?
Your the man Richard thank you for making these
A 1970 Buick 455 had 510 Torque. After 1970 all the spa regulations came in and all the 455s of all the 454s had lower compression.
Well ...not sure about 510 ft/lbs torque , its still A BEAST !
Believe THAT!
However:
Yes it would have to be a 70’ and i believe the BUICK 455 also has got to have the stage1 heads to reach 510 on the torque meter!
👉🏼Buick also had another option that no1 ever brings up that makes it the undisputed KING
the STAGE 2 !
👉🏼& as far as small blocks go i seen a 👉🏼350 Buick 👈🏼lightly modified (usual cam headers ) with a cast iron intake (availability issues in the 80’s)
Rule the streets !! nevermind the small block chevys. The Big blocks had to be on top of their tuning game or that GS350 woulda pulled away from ya!
The BUICK 350 was far more powerfull vs chevy 350
Due to its torque!
richard , i have a ford 429 thunder jet. what is the real hp of this engine, and what would be a good hyd street cam for it
Hey Rich, you alright?
You sound a little wheezy
I appreciate you showing some older, more obscure engine options. I’m really interested in 455 Oldsmobile, as well as FE/FT Ford engines. I’d like to hear your thoughts about these engines.
So do I!
never built an FE but would like to
@@richardholdener1727 I´m looking forward to that!🙂👍
Id like to see Him tackle even the 360 FE just to show how good they were in comparison to the other emissions model engines (consider the 2bbl 360 FE made 196hp 327tq and the "Legendary" little red express 4bbl 360 made a whole whopping 225hp 295tq and that was the fastest* stock vehicle made during the early emissions years by the American Companies even faster than the Corvettes, Camaros, and Mustangs)
Plus Buick ran stock cast iron manifold.
it had headers
I learned the more money you have, the more torque you can get :)
Thanks Richard, you're always doing the things we older guys dreamed of doing when we were young pups arguing about who was best. Love your work and honesty.
The bigger the boost, the better the bonus. And nobody does it better than the Boost Master Richard 😉.
bigger, better, boostier!
@@richardholdener1727 …Precisely 🏁
TIL: Big Block Chevys + Turbos = awesome.
Where is the Oldsmobile and Pontiac at
Should have included the 460 Ford
can the 8.1 big block crank be used in a vortech 454? what about 8.1 cam in 454?
NOT SURE THEY INTERCHANGE
Can we get a comparison of low rpm torque with popular straight 6's? I like the lay out you do with stock, stroker and boost. Would be fun a comparison with other popular gas engines ideal for pulling vehicles.
We just put an 80s 300 inline 6 into a Galaxy. Seemed to work out great.
Pontiac 400 sJ.vs.chevy 400
Hey where is the 455 Pontiac?
Really?
I think the Stage 1 equipped Buicks are what made them famous. Kinda like the Super Duty Pontiacs. In run of the mill trim, they really weren't much special. Throw some decent parts at them... Now we are talking! I'd love to see a BOP/C 400 and a BOP/C 455/454 comparison. So many variables in cylinder heads and camshafts used in each application, I don't know how you would ever truly figure out which motor was really the best.
Nice exhaust gas recirculation
350 Olds Rocket with 455 heads/Intake & headers - boosted ???
I have built both turbo 455 and turbo 350 Oldsmobile the. The 350 had C casings and made a ton of power. Never had it on a Dyno but rolling burnouts at 80mph we're not a problem. 👍
Why throw away 100CI?
What about a Pontiac?
I have build several Oldsmobile turbo motors with great success. It would be great to see them on here as well.
shawn yearsley Love the BOP family as well!
BBC 454 over the Vortec L18?
Richard do a Godzilla 7.3!!
Buick 455 was a monster down low!
The Caddy more so....and further down the rev range too.
@@markdubois4882 Caddy was a beast too. Richard had his peeps in CA work on it. Pretty sporty
What do you guys prefer for towing a caddy 500 or chevy 502
both work
The 4.8 at 12.4 psi is acting like nearly 9.0L or 548 cu in as far as airflow is concerned. The only downside is the tune for an NA engine is probably going to be around 13:1 afr or 0.440 BSFC. The turbo tune is going to require something like 11.5:1 afr (gas scale) and 0.500 BSFC (or higher) on gas, way more on E85. For towing, where you’re getting into boost a lot, this is going to affect fuel usage compared to an NA big inch engine. As far as torque and power, it’s just a matter of lb/min air into the engine!
BTW, does anyone else hate this new YT comment layout? Using an iPad, if that makes a difference.
Don't know what what engine to put in my 1964 Chevrolet 5500 tilt cab . Now it's a 292. I do have a 500 Cadillac. I can also by an LS . I also have a 383 SBC. I would like to cruise at approx 1700 at 70mph. I know I will have to figure out the transmission and rear end.
I'm not sure how many years ago, but it was at least 10 years ago. I remember reading articles in car craft and hot rod magazine, that compared HP and TQ numbers on different engines. They would use a computer program to tell you how fast a car would go. For example....say that you always use the same car 3500 lbs, perfect weather, perfect track conditions, basically the best the car could achieve. Is there something available today that you could use to tell us what all of the different TQ and HP numbers would do in the 1/8 or 1/4 mile? I know there are calculators on line but I don't know what they take into account weather, traction, stall converter,gear ratios. I think it would be pretty interesting to take all of your tests and run them through the same car simulator program if you had one available.
Have you run any EFI 460 Fords? I've seen your tests on older carbureted 460's but there isn't many builds of the EFI years. I'd like to know what's possible with a tune on the factory stuff.
Had a 69 full size jeep pickup we crammed with a 455 rocket. I never once thought I wish this had more torque! Lol
Out of all the GM engines, Pontiac did better things with them in the SD series. I would love to see a Buick with its largest bore get some custom heads 3or 4 valve. Take the block and machine a crank girdle to stiffen the bottom. Custom build the heads for either a hot v design, with turbo/intercooling . With great rods and 3D print pistons 9,000 should live long and prosper.
Now we need a bbf and bbp and let them in the party
Fun fact; boost=displacement. Therefore, there is STILL no replacement for displacement.
Are those Pick-n-Pull motors? How much are they down there? I wanna compare prices from Seattle.
"chevy chevy chevy chevy... motor motor motor motor..."
Power per cubic inch of displacement... then cost to get the performance devided by nostalgia and a little insight from the Holdner factor and you get the coefficient of coolness
I’ve seen the Pontiac and buick 455 videos. I own and olds 455. And I’ve been hoping for a video on one. So I know what it can handle.
You want to see big torque numbers out of a "big block" add boost to a big block
I wonder if you can get away with that because big blocks are hard to cool
LKQ = Date Night
Personally I blame squirrels
Need to add a Pontiac
You da man Richard, you have every gearheads dream job......you rock brother
Needed a bigger carb
And Pontirags
Who makes the best electronic waste controllers?
lots of good ones-try TurboSmart
Thanks for this test. Makes you wonder if it’s worth while to boost a 4.8/5.3 for a good tow motor and see if the mileage is a considerable enough difference to go that route.
i have a ho crate engine 454 bbc factory claims it has 450 hp at 485 torque i would love a test on a engine like that
Buick 455 vs Oldsmobile 455??
Really ? Come on ! not on front street !
Them BUICKs man lookout!
This is the problem with the comparison. You always throw twisted (engine) that toyed with in the mix . Wrecking yards are full every stock (engine) you can think of. Just resize rings check bearings and maybe some small repairs w. Pump valve job ! Then compare them. 500 caddy stock makes 310hp 425 tq.
the cad 500 might be rated at that-don't confuse rated hp vs tested hp, and the yards are not full of vintage 455 Buicks, or Pontiacs etc.. I know-I look all the time
Could you do a live feed earlier in the day one day. I work nights so I miss all the fun
You need to do an Oldsmobile
What about turbo caddilac
I had a 75 sedan deville with the 472 and a diesel turbo
413 mopar
I wish you would do something with the 502 BBC. Is it so similar that is a waste of time or such a flop that it isn't brought up, or just none in the wrecking yard. It's a BBC I wish was compared to others.
None in the wrecking yards.
that was never a production motor-only available as replacement and after market (it's a crate motor)
I knew it was a crate motor but implying that if they were in the wrecking yard you would probably have run one. I still very much enjoy all you do Richard. Maybe there is someone' out there that can lend you one but I know that is wishful thinking. Thanks for all you do.
The 8100 / 496CI Gen 7 Big Block is close in CI and would be very cool to see up against the old Iron. Plentiful in 2500, 3500 and 4500 trucks. It was also a factory roller cam motor which is a welcomed improvement. It also has a symmetrical valve and port layout which works very well on port injected motors. No sure how good it would be on a carb motor.
But all these hairdryers significantly shorten the engines life. And are very hard to fit as well. More so with air and steer etc.
And an LS is a LONG way from a bolt in for any Caddy or buick
Depends on the car. A 59 eldorado, doubt it. A 68-72 skylark, ive done em.
@@rustysausage69 Buick 350 was the small block king , now the LS. mite be a dif story!
But were talking decades & decades of tech in the ls .
Gotta be hard to keep a head gasket on a boosted 455. The Buick's 4 5/16" bore and 10 scrawny head bolts will come up really short. For me the best torque combo was tiny cam, zero deck, flat tops, and .100 off the heads. Add a huge Q-jet, 100 octane, and about 30deg. All iron but only about 70lbs heavier than a '70's SBC. Cheap build, you bet. Still have one in my garage, rat rod anyone?
i been getting the ho 454 4 inch stroke steel crank heavy rods pushrods high flow heads with a 02xx 400r turbo good to 800 hp crate set all complete everything u need to put in with a 4 row radiator coolers tewin electric fan serpentine belt from 6000 to 58,000 miles on them so far 4 sets for free this year saves me a lot of money on builds
LS has only 10 head bolts-1543 hp later!
@@richardholdener1727 …FACTS….don’t leave home without them 😉.
@@richardholdener1727 True, but LS is not a primitive 60's designed big block with one of the first thin cast blocks. Big bores but little stiffness. Hard to seal.
Notable.. not notorious. Notorious is a negative word. Don't do infamous either as it is the same as notorious. Infamous is not "more famous" it is a bad. Famous would be a good word. IE Buick big blocks are notorious for a problematic oil system and famous for massive torque production.
Buick 455-NOTORIOUS BIG Torque
Good information. However, towing guys also want to know MPG in the real world. WQill a boosted 4.8 make better or about the same poor MPG as a stock 454?
It will suck the fuel down faster than you can put it in look at ford eco boost for example people are complaining about 13mpg but drive 80 to 90mph every where running boost but people that drive 70mph see 20+mpg
@3:01 AAAAAAAOOOOOO!
What about 6.8 triton V10?
yes
Nitrous makes a smaller engine feel like a bigger engine too. Nitrous plus boost, good things will happen. Where's the Olds 455 comparo? Koo vid dood. Thank you.
Olds who ? We are comparing the Torque Kings here BUICKs etc....
Richard what’s the fuel consumption difference between the turbo 4.8 vs the 454 at cruise rpm? It may make the little 4.8 very attractive for truck owners when they are not pulling a trailer and looking for economy unloaded .
that would have to be tested on the road
Boost isn't a replacement for displacement when it can be added to both, and you're back to cubes winning out.
The more the merrier....and the 500 Caddy is king.
You should try a 455 olds rocket 7.0L. They used them in motorhomes and the torque was huge for a stock engine
a 455 is bigger than 7.0Ls-thats only 427 inches
You really need to add the Pontiac 455 to this test