Big Lee! I would have to say that I loose a lot! And I mean A Lot 😂 My gaming mates are all veteran gamers and ruthless. 🥺. Often however we make mistakes with rules, especially new rules we want to try. We generally just change it on the spot and or make not about it for my next whooping. How I deal with constant defeat is to laugh. I love when my friends get a win and are feeling masculine and strong. They thump their chests in victory. One of these days I’m going to figure out how to cavalry. Then the table will turn. 👍 luv your podcasts btw!!!
Hey Big Lee! Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. NOBODY likes to be wrong, and receiving the benefits of a mistake, cheapens what I am after in war gaming. I value my self-esteem, friendships, and the "Good Of The Game", far more than my (no longer) fragile ego! This way... when I, from time to time, win... I am satisfied. I enjoy your After Action Reports. I'm always looking for more scenarios... so having access to more would be very welcome indeed! Your Book Review hit close to home, and I will add your selection to my "Must Read List". Shelby Foote's three volume work, "The Civil War", has become my Gold Standard Reference on that conflict. Good Luck at Salute, and remember, "Aspirin Is Your Friend"! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
Interesting idea to set the old blog posts in motion with some narration. I like a good slide show. I’ll have to look for McPherson’s book. I often find myself more interested in the common soldier’s POV than the general’s.
We usually own up, have a chat about it and, if it hasn't completely banjaxed one side or the other, carry on and keep playing the same until the end of the game. We reckon it'll be the same for both sides but ensure that we play the rule "correctly" next time.
Talking point : A major factor is your role in the game. As a player then option 2 is my 'go to option', but if I'm umpiring I will tend to react more like a D&D Dungeon Master and say nothing until the game is over. Then, in the debrief, admit the cock-up and explain my decision to ignore it at the time. GM 'omniscience' and fog of war will almost certainly make an appearance in this debrief. 😂 Your video on the FPW ruleset was excellent, and may I suggest Altar of Freedom as a candidate for 'Big Lee Treatment'. I think the command and control / variable turn length mechanic that is employed is worth exploring for exporting beyond the ACW setting. (Anything that makes you, as C-in-C, decide where the friction strikes and how hard, is, in my view, far superior to dice rolling , or card drawing.) 6mm ACW is a niche, within a niche, within a niche, within a niche, so maybe a lot of people haven't come across Greg Wagman's elegant treatment of C&C in AoF.
Think you are bang on with the "learning opportunity" observation - especially when playing new rules. We've been learning Fantastic Battles recently and have made numerous mistakes lol. In most cases it's an easy fix, or something that can be ignored and we move on.
Hi Lee; like you I don't play comp games as I'm not that competitive. It is not unusual in our group, due to the number of rule systems we utilize over the vast number of periods, that someone will grab the rules in a 'clutching at straws' moment to discover that we have been playing a rule incorrectly - this can be corrected from then on through the game, or ignored until the next game depending on how far through we are .... we operate a 'gentleman's agreement' system. This also extends to offering a better alternative to the opposition than the one they opt for during a move, if we see they are missing a real opportunity, even to our own detriment.
If we get a rule wrong usually I would tell the players what I had done wrong in the rules so that they should know what the rule should be. And often just continue the same until the end of the game as it is often to difficult to unpick.
Honesty and integrity all the way. Undoing a mistake is rarely worth it, we can just learn and carry on. The ever-fickle gods of war smiled for a while, that's all. All may be fair in love and war, but playing with toy soldiers with friends is neither of these things.
I rarely play Fantasy, and never competition, My main " passion " is Napoleonic Wargaming. No " rules " are completely accurate. I live in Bulgaria these days, and every Saturday I have a "wargames day" with a long term friend, with lunch and copious coffee and conversation, however. There are times when I see something that does not " add up" even within the rules I discuss this and resolve it with my friend. Being a " gentleman" resolves the problem. That is one reason why I never participated in competition. We also play " ancients", reading and learning is essential
American Civil War conscription estimates of numbers vary, but the Confederate army had a higher percentage of draftees (10%) than the Union. Only 2% of the Union army were draftees, but another 6% were paid substitutes for draftees. The Confederate government instituted the draft almost a year before the Union did (April 16, 1862 vs April 1st, 1863). And, although the original CSA army was composed of volunteers, their enlistments were involuntarily extended by two years by Jefferson Davis, effectively making almost all of them draftees.
There's another approach that we use down the club, purely for speed of play. Admit up front that you can't remember exactly what the rule is, say what you think the rule is, agree to play that ruling for the rest of the game and look it up post game, sharing it with the other players so you get the ruling right next time. Not something you can do in a competition but that I guess is why those games have umpires.
My policy - confess as soon as is practical to do so and if the error was to my advantage, offer some sort of sacrifice as compensation without actually backtracking the game. My personal experience of this from the other side was in a club DBA tounament. I'm a strictly non-competitive player, but I was an officer of the club at the time so felt obliged to support it. Despite my best efforts to drop out early I made it to the quarter finals where I faced the club's most senior veteran tournament champion player, who''d won titles at the national level. For those who've never played it, old school DBA armies were all made up of 12 elements, plus a static camp. As we finished deployment, I noticed my opponent had only laid out 11 elements. The rules at the time didn't support "sneakers" like HOTT or flanking marches like I believe DBA 3.0 does. I flagged this to my opponent "Have you got enough elements laid out" "Yes" he replied. "It looks like you're one short to me." But he insisted he was fully deployed correctly, so rather than create a scene I let it slide. Never interrupt your enemy while they're making a mistake, as the old military aphorism goes. Two turns in and as our battle lines were approaching contact and he "realises" his mistake. He then tried to correct it by tacking on the missing unit to the end of his battle line, giving him an outflanking bonus on that flank. The way we played at the time this would give a player the initial advantage they could use to roll-up all or part of the line. While I didn't mind losing, I had stong feelings about fair play, especially since I'd tried repeatedly to point out the initial mistake. I called in the tournament organiser for an adjudication, which resulted in the missing unit appearing at the enemy's camp instead, with only a little bit of grumping from my opponent. I can't remember honestly if I won or lost that game, but I've never again played in another tournament, even a friendly one.
An ungenerous interpretation would suggest he was 'pulling a fast one', but maybe he was just overconfident and therefore careless. Placing the missing unit where it would give the most advantage is a little suspicious though. Calling in adjudication without making too much of a fuss was probably the best option in that situation.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV Yeah absolutely my thinking. Note that at the time and even to this date I have never made judgement one way or another, whether it was entirely innocent or attempted shenanigans. Honestly I don't know and it doesn't really matter.
Generally in my friend group we try to backtrack anything that's very obvious and just apply the rule properly going forwards. If it affects both sides we may equal the turns we've played the wrong rules for to make the cost/benefit even
I 'fess up as soon as is practical. Normally when it is my next turn, I explain what I have done and then discuss options. If it is not too far into the game, we reset. Otherwise we try to equalise the effect of the error. This is also useful if both players miss a rule for a number of turns, which happens a lot with us as we tend to be system butterflies and memories are not what they used to be!
The 10-minute vid is a great idea, but as you said it's a heavy time-investment which might be unnecessary if it's just about "views". However, much like the hobby itself, with countless hours painting miniatures along with historical research, I'd say it's just another way to enjoy it and share it with others. Time well spent?
We generally use a non-playing game master who decides the rules. We are not generally into tournament style competition wargames. Although one of us competes at DBA & DBM away from our local group.
Big Lee! I would have to say that I loose a lot! And I mean A Lot 😂 My gaming mates are all veteran gamers and ruthless. 🥺. Often however we make mistakes with rules, especially new rules we want to try. We generally just change it on the spot and or make not about it for my next whooping. How I deal with constant defeat is to laugh. I love when my friends get a win and are feeling masculine and strong. They thump their chests in victory. One of these days I’m going to figure out how to cavalry. Then the table will turn. 👍 luv your podcasts btw!!!
Hey Big Lee! Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. NOBODY likes to be wrong, and receiving the benefits of a mistake, cheapens what I am after in war gaming. I value my self-esteem, friendships, and the "Good Of The Game", far more than my (no longer) fragile ego! This way... when I, from time to time, win... I am satisfied. I enjoy your After Action Reports. I'm always looking for more scenarios... so having access to more would be very welcome indeed! Your Book Review hit close to home, and I will add your selection to my "Must Read List". Shelby Foote's three volume work, "The Civil War", has become my Gold Standard Reference on that conflict. Good Luck at Salute, and remember, "Aspirin Is Your Friend"! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
Interesting idea to set the old blog posts in motion with some narration. I like a good slide show.
I’ll have to look for McPherson’s book. I often find myself more interested in the common soldier’s POV than the general’s.
We usually own up, have a chat about it and, if it hasn't completely banjaxed one side or the other, carry on and keep playing the same until the end of the game. We reckon it'll be the same for both sides but ensure that we play the rule "correctly" next time.
Talking point : A major factor is your role in the game. As a player then option 2 is my 'go to option', but if I'm umpiring I will tend to react more like a D&D Dungeon Master and say nothing until the game is over. Then, in the debrief, admit the cock-up and explain my decision to ignore it at the time. GM 'omniscience' and fog of war will almost certainly make an appearance in this debrief. 😂
Your video on the FPW ruleset was excellent, and may I suggest Altar of Freedom as a candidate for 'Big Lee Treatment'. I think the command and control / variable turn length mechanic that is employed is worth exploring for exporting beyond the ACW setting. (Anything that makes you, as C-in-C, decide where the friction strikes and how hard, is, in my view, far superior to dice rolling , or card drawing.)
6mm ACW is a niche, within a niche, within a niche, within a niche, so maybe a lot of people haven't come across Greg Wagman's elegant treatment of C&C in AoF.
Think you are bang on with the "learning opportunity" observation - especially when playing new rules. We've been learning Fantastic Battles recently and have made numerous mistakes lol. In most cases it's an easy fix, or something that can be ignored and we move on.
Hi Lee; like you I don't play comp games as I'm not that competitive. It is not unusual in our group, due to the number of rule systems we utilize over the vast number of periods, that someone will grab the rules in a 'clutching at straws' moment to discover that we have been playing a rule incorrectly - this can be corrected from then on through the game, or ignored until the next game depending on how far through we are .... we operate a 'gentleman's agreement' system. This also extends to offering a better alternative to the opposition than the one they opt for during a move, if we see they are missing a real opportunity, even to our own detriment.
If we get a rule wrong usually I would tell the players what I had done wrong in the rules so that they should know what the rule should be. And often just continue the same until the end of the game as it is often to difficult to unpick.
Honesty and integrity all the way. Undoing a mistake is rarely worth it, we can just learn and carry on. The ever-fickle gods of war smiled for a while, that's all.
All may be fair in love and war, but playing with toy soldiers with friends is neither of these things.
I rarely play Fantasy, and never competition, My main " passion " is Napoleonic Wargaming. No " rules " are completely accurate. I live in Bulgaria these days, and every Saturday I have a "wargames day" with a long term friend, with lunch and copious coffee and conversation, however. There are times when I see something that does not " add up" even within the rules I discuss this and resolve it with my friend. Being a " gentleman" resolves the problem. That is one reason why I never participated in competition.
We also play " ancients", reading and learning is essential
Sounds like you have a good way to resolve issues. I agree that no set of rules can cover everything.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV We have been friends for decades, and both of us have a passion for history.
American Civil War conscription estimates of numbers vary, but the Confederate army had a higher percentage of draftees (10%) than the Union. Only 2% of the Union army were draftees, but another 6% were paid substitutes for draftees. The Confederate government instituted the draft almost a year before the Union did (April 16, 1862 vs April 1st, 1863). And, although the original CSA army was composed of volunteers, their enlistments were involuntarily extended by two years by Jefferson Davis, effectively making almost all of them draftees.
Very interesting.
There's another approach that we use down the club, purely for speed of play. Admit up front that you can't remember exactly what the rule is, say what you think the rule is, agree to play that ruling for the rest of the game and look it up post game, sharing it with the other players so you get the ruling right next time. Not something you can do in a competition but that I guess is why those games have umpires.
My policy - confess as soon as is practical to do so and if the error was to my advantage, offer some sort of sacrifice as compensation without actually backtracking the game.
My personal experience of this from the other side was in a club DBA tounament. I'm a strictly non-competitive player, but I was an officer of the club at the time so felt obliged to support it. Despite my best efforts to drop out early I made it to the quarter finals where I faced the club's most senior veteran tournament champion player, who''d won titles at the national level.
For those who've never played it, old school DBA armies were all made up of 12 elements, plus a static camp. As we finished deployment, I noticed my opponent had only laid out 11 elements. The rules at the time didn't support "sneakers" like HOTT or flanking marches like I believe DBA 3.0 does.
I flagged this to my opponent "Have you got enough elements laid out"
"Yes" he replied.
"It looks like you're one short to me." But he insisted he was fully deployed correctly, so rather than create a scene I let it slide. Never interrupt your enemy while they're making a mistake, as the old military aphorism goes.
Two turns in and as our battle lines were approaching contact and he "realises" his mistake. He then tried to correct it by tacking on the missing unit to the end of his battle line, giving him an outflanking bonus on that flank. The way we played at the time this would give a player the initial advantage they could use to roll-up all or part of the line.
While I didn't mind losing, I had stong feelings about fair play, especially since I'd tried repeatedly to point out the initial mistake. I called in the tournament organiser for an adjudication, which resulted in the missing unit appearing at the enemy's camp instead, with only a little bit of grumping from my opponent.
I can't remember honestly if I won or lost that game, but I've never again played in another tournament, even a friendly one.
An ungenerous interpretation would suggest he was 'pulling a fast one', but maybe he was just overconfident and therefore careless. Placing the missing unit where it would give the most advantage is a little suspicious though. Calling in adjudication without making too much of a fuss was probably the best option in that situation.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV Yeah absolutely my thinking. Note that at the time and even to this date I have never made judgement one way or another, whether it was entirely innocent or attempted shenanigans. Honestly I don't know and it doesn't really matter.
Generally in my friend group we try to backtrack anything that's very obvious and just apply the rule properly going forwards. If it affects both sides we may equal the turns we've played the wrong rules for to make the cost/benefit even
I 'fess up as soon as is practical. Normally when it is my next turn, I explain what I have done and then discuss options. If it is not too far into the game, we reset. Otherwise we try to equalise the effect of the error. This is also useful if both players miss a rule for a number of turns, which happens a lot with us as we tend to be system butterflies and memories are not what they used to be!
The 10-minute vid is a great idea, but as you said it's a heavy time-investment which might be unnecessary if it's just about "views". However, much like the hobby itself, with countless hours painting miniatures along with historical research, I'd say it's just another way to enjoy it and share it with others. Time well spent?
Honestly announce and identify the mistake, and let your opponent choose the preferred resolution.
That's fair enough
We generally use a non-playing game master who decides the rules. We are not generally into tournament style competition wargames. Although one of us competes at DBA & DBM away from our local group.
That's like our group. We always play with an umpire.
We admit to the mistake and moving forward don't make the same mistake.
We have never restarted a game.
It's a learning moment, not the end of the world 😉
Defo better to own up asap I reckon.
Make a lot luckily I play solo😂
I always own up, try to fix it. I only play casual with friends, so it's never an issue.