Don’t Forgive Student Debt
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2022
- Making their monthly payments is a major drag for millions in their 20s and 30s, but federal forgiveness is the stupidest way to address this problem.
reason.com/video/2022/07/29/d...
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For many of the 43 million Americans weighed down by student loan debt, making their monthly payments is a major drag on their lives. About a third of undergraduates going for a bachelor's degree are either dropping out or taking more than six years to graduate, which means that lots of people carrying student debt don't even have a degree. Others are finding that what they learned in college doesn't even help them get a job.
Federal student loan debt hit $1.6 trillion last year. This is a major problem for people in their 20s and 30s. But the federal government simply wiping their debt clean is just about the stupidest way to address it.
Written by Emma Camp; edited by Danielle Thompson; sound by Ian Keyser
Photo Credits: Chris Fitzgerald / Candidate Photos/Newscom/Newscom; KEVIN DIETSCH/UPI/Newscom; JOHN ANGELILLO/UPI/Newscom; CNP/AdMedia/SIPA/Newscom; Caroline Brehman/CQ Roll Call/Newscom
Music Credits: "Game Over" by 2050 via Artlist; "Dusk till Dawn" by Mintz via Artlist; "Center of Gravity" by Phutureprimitive via Artlist; "The Dutchman" by Mintz via Artlist
Correction: The original version of this video had a mislabeled chart: $516 million was mislabeled $5.16 million. We've corrected the mistake by blurring out the figure in the UA-cam editor. (It will take a couple of hours to process though.)
Eh, why not just take the video down and re-up the video with a proper graphic?
Bozos will make mistakes...
@@WhyNotTruth Which, they admit to have made... I have to wonder if you are agreeing with me in that they are making another mistake in how they are addressing the mistake they admit they made...
Okay, now correct your slanderous lies about Tucker Carlson and the GRt.
@@connernickerson5509 What slanderous lies and wtf is a GRt?
All student loans should come only from college endowment funds. Only then will colleges price their courses/degrees fairly. They would take meaningful steps to improve the graduation rate so borrowers can afford to pay the debt. Most important of all, they'd stop offering worthless "pity-me" courses and degrees.
Good idea
I think you mean the student loans would be collateralized by the endowment funds? That would absolutely work. Like a home loan, if you dont pay it back, the bank takes the home back.
Yeah, that doesn't sound very libertarian.
@@brent4073 And if there's nothing to take back the endowment has to eat it and hopefully learns some kind of lesson.
I love placing the debt on the books of the college. Chrysler capital, for example, actually has an incentive to mitigate their risk.
Having said that, the "endowment" fund probably isn't the place to do it. These are typically set up with the inability to invade the corpus
Two things would really help.
#1) Stop subsidizing higher education by having the taxpayers on the hook for the loans. Instead, have financial institutions or the universities themselves bear that risk.
#2) Allow student loans to be discharged via bankruptcy like any other debt.
Particularly #2, what's so special about student loan debt that justifies it being non-dischargeable in bankruptcy?
Bingo!
#1) Stop subsidizing. Period. Govt grants = unfair competition.
@@Xeverous True, one step at a time though.
@@Xeverous Why? Did you make a reserch on how subsudizing education affects the economy? The government is subsidizing many things, Amazon paid zero tax because of subsidizing, as many other companies that failed and went bunkrupt. What if subsidizing education improves America's economy? If that is the case then we should subsidize education. The government subsidizie many things if they thinkg that would bring more money. For example the city would use money for tidyin up the parks on in some parts of the city you never visit, but if it makes more tourists visit those parts, spend more money in nearby restaurants then that would bring more moeny to the city and improve economy for the whole city. If you did a reasearch on that, can you give us a link so that we can read it so that we can understand your arguments?
"Focus on the expensive colleges themselves" that's been my argument for years
You can't do one without the other. Federal loan guarantees are the REASON for the expensive rates as well as high rates of college attendance.
We can't divorce the cost of school from the funding mechanism, for good or bad. Making colleges responsible for their own loans sounds great is probably be the best market solution, but WILL mean a drastic reduction in the number of students who are able to attend college and culling of an entire sector of the economy, and mass layoffs.
@@fortusvictus8297 how is making College more affordable so Students loads are not insane with insane interest rates going to cause students to not go to school?
@@Dogapillar4Lyfe That won't happen for a long time. A cold ending to taxpayer-backed student loans would mean schools would need to be extremely selective about who they loan money/scholarships to. This would necessarily mean fewer students being able to attend which reduces both revenue and demand for teachers, thus mass layoffs and a reduction in the wages of college staff. Over time things may normalize, but it would take a number of years at least and many schools would undoubtedly close or consolidate.
There may be room for some class action lawsuits against many of these institutions. They were predetory in their tuition costs. Payouts may help alleviate some of the financial burden off students who never graduated or whose degrees didn't help them get jobs.
Yes, this may cut some schools at the knee and there will certainly be much fewer university admin jobs but frankly with the state of most universities in the US, that's a loss I am think we can all bear with equanimity.
@@fortusvictus8297 hold up, you're making a lot of assumptions from my comment.
All my original comment was, if you want to stop the student debt issue you need to address the high prices of these colleges and universities. No where did I say "Like tomorrow just shut it all down" I'm just stating what I think the root issue of the problem is, I wasnt giving a time line or my thoughts on a solution.
My follow up was just a generalized broad statement in regards to your reply.
College is so overpriced it's basically a big giant scam at this point. I used financial aid to pay for college because I qualify, but I will never spend a single dime or get into debt for college. I'd be better off just finding a decent paying job, getting work experience and working my way up.
Part of the problem is the more money state and federal student loan programs dump into the higher education system the more the colleges and universities raise their prices to milk the easy money for profit. It's a feedback loop.
It depends what you want to do. A lot of high paying career paths require college education, and in-state college is generally inexpensive enough that you can cashflow most of it working part time.
On the other hand, doing the "normal" thing and taking out $100K+ in loans for a poly sci degree is just idiotic.
I realized this when I got my first job after graduating college. My buddy who went straight into the workforce after high school was making 15k more a year than I was.
Here's where I ended up taking your approach. I have managed to work my way up in the company I work for to an Application Engineer position, yet I don't have an engineering degree. I have talked with several recruiters and the odds of me being able to find another job as an Application Engineer without the degree, no matter the years of experience, is slim to none.
So I am effectively stuck working for the same company for the rest of my life (if they keep me that long) or I move to another company and take a steep pay cut and title cut and start in the middle...hopefully no lower.
I agree with you that college is overrated, but until businesses agree with that, not having the piece of paper can be a hindrance.
@@reddirtwalker8041 You need to talk to different people. A college degree is not needed to be a software developer. Most employers might ask but don't really care as long as you can prove you know your stuff. I don't have a degree either, and I've known developers that have degrees in fields that have nothing to do with computers. Don't let anyone tell you you're stuck, because that is likely untrue. Try smaller companies or look for job postings that say college degree or equivalent experience.
The program that Purdue University is doing, where the students attend for free in return for a fixed percentage of graduate earnings for a fixed period of time does a much better job of aligning incentives between the institution and the student. Doesn't do anything to fix the current mess, unfortunately.
Hoadley👋
This concept is taken from what yeshivas have been doing. Great concept for universities, and it helps poorer folks get a good education.
You mean "Purdue" University hah. I'm an alum.
@@georgetodd5795 Yes, I typed that, but we have a number of politicians around here with the e version, and it autocorrected. Apologies.
Hot take: parents and teachers, please stop telling your kids to go to college. Tell them it's an option they can consider among other options. College isn't for everyone, and certainly not for every bewildered 18-year-old who has no idea where they want or ought to go in life.
My parents told me there were other options when they started to realize I had no sense of direction after high school, but by then it was too little too late. I did what I had been told day after day for 18 years that I would and should do: I took out the necessary loans and went to college. Fell flat on my face. Switched over to community college, because I still had to pursue some kind of education or I was wasting my life, right? A handful of classes I am grateful to have experienced, but most of what I went into debt for was a waste of time and energy.
Now I'm just trying to work my way up the old-fashioned way while gaining certs through self-study and bracing myself for the end of the student loan payment pause. I'm not bitter; I made my choices, and life doesn't always go according to plan. But seriously, if you're a high school senior, and you're reading this: don't go to college unless you have a relatively clear vision for where you want to go in the next 5-10 years. If you feel lost, don't rush into anything just because you've felt pressured your whole life to follow a script. Get a tolerable job, get your own place if you can, pick up a hobby, and maybe poke around the internet or the library at learning this or that, see if anything keeps your interest. If, along the way, you find a clear vision that gives you good reason to go to college, then go.
Sounds like a great idea! With the best of intentions! What could possibly go wrong?
I just got recommended the same channel. So far, pretty neat!
Wife is a physician. We worked hard and made sacrifices to pay off her loans. Stuff that isn't even that big a deal like not going on vactions, not buying new cars, buying less house than we could afford, all so we could shovel money towards satisfying her loan obligations. She has multiple colleagues that didn't make the same sacrifices, took the vacations, bought the lake house. This year many of them have started receiving > 200k in student loan forgiveness, tax free, via the PSLF. Not only have they been openly celebrating offloading their financial obligations on to taxpayers and future generations, they also have shamed her while at work for paying down her loans. It's a major slap in the face that our leaders are rewarding the best off in society, people in the >95% of income earners, while punishing people that make sacrifices in order to make responsible financial decisions and honor their financial obligations.
Unlike those freeloaders, you and your wife have my respectn
There are people who are responsible with finances and those who are not. Which category do the politicians fall into? Of course they are going to make it easier for other debtors to live the lifestyle. That's the American dream.
I literally just paid off my student loan
Yeah, only the rich can print money to bail themselves out. As soon as they will afford this to people in need it becomes an INFLATION PROBLEM. I don't see documentaries like this coming out when the elite did a bailout for themselves right before the covid lockdowns. You have no problem printing money for wars and corruption but hot damn if we spend a penny on education for those in need. I especially love reading all the fake bot posts that don't even sound like human beings. Democracies cannot function without an educated population. How anyone can think an education won't help them get a job is looking at the wrong degree's.
@@davidbjordan Interesting take. Please elaborate more on what you mean?
The fact that the message is "forgive student debt" rather than "make higher education more affordable" should be very telling who these people are and what their priority is. Also a lot of people already got their debt forgiven under Biden, but the people who are the loudest about forgiving student debt are privileged upper middle class with more than 100k in debt
College should be free regardless.
@@Bolizen If it's free how do the teachers get paid and the building they teach in get built?
@@reichelitis6468 The same way we fund k-12 education
@@karenguttsy6310 We do need to start thinking about expanding past K-12 to fund through taxpayer money colleges as well. if we did that, students wouldn't have to deal with student loan debt.
If going to college doesn't help find jobs, then the solution to college loan debt is stop going to college.
Forgiving student debt sets a terrible precedent. From that day forward, you would be crazy not to take money from the government. Chances are, you wouldn't have to pay it back.
hell yeah. free money to those who don't pay taxes.
It's so terrible to set that precedent for simple individuals but totally cool to do it for huge corporations, right?
I've been saying for a long time that just wiping out student loan debt is incredibly stupid because it doesn't address the underlying issues that are making the costs of education out pace the rate of inflation.
Common sense, Libra here. The most basic and obvious problem with it (not yet mentioned):
Thousands of people finish paying off their debt in full somehow, every week*
*It would simply NOT be fair for a timely new graduate, for example, to have every debt wiped.. while others just finished paying off 10's of thousands of dollars for a degree they received 3-10 years prior.
Do those people get refunds? It's a totally FAKE political card to get votes, as I explained, because it could never happen without ALL HELL BREAKING LOOSE.
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. I have $52k in debt and no degree and live paycheck to paycheck. With no option for bankruptcy. I have autism and a learning disability which made it impossible for me to pass math. I was in college for 10 years before dropping out. People like us need a way out.
Why not both?
its HR that forces college back into Relevancy.
Bingo
Exactly. I was denied a job promotion because I didn’t have a clinical degree in the exact field. However the job did not require me to see patients… and other institutions didn’t require it. It was a stupid HR decision.
Back in the olden days we worked to pay for college. No debt at graduation.
And I'm sure tuition cost the same in the "olden days", right? 🙄
Government subsidizing loans and artificially increasing demand is what makes college so expensive to begin with. Read "The Case Against Education" by Bryan Caplan!
The "education" system produces useless people in 12-20 years... and wastes your youth. You stop being young at the age of 23-25.
If kids weren't neglected to the "education" system, but instead specialized in one engineering field, or one trade, or law, or commerce after elementary school(starting at age 10-11), by the time they are 14-18 they'd be a highly skilled and knowledgeable experts in the field/sub-field they were specialized in and would be able to work on a medium position.
I have many friends, acquaintances and people I know that did just that and many started working an engineering job during high school and many now earn 3-5x times the average salary at 21-23 years old.
Edit: Not to mention that school and university diplomas should NOT be mandatory to get a job, because there is no real world knowledge and skill behind them.
"Skilled & knowledgeable individuals" by the time they're 18 is bad for business for slaveowners.
If you're useless, that's your own problem.
@@edgewyze7352 GOOD
So basically what you sorta did in the past, kinda like parents would teach their children a trade or send them to learn a trade instead of learning the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell and 12+ years of shot they’ll forget a day after it was learned.
@@Bc232klm So you were a mid-level engineer OR tradesman OR lawyer OR tradesman OR businessman at the age of 14-18?
In 1981 my 2 year community college scholarship was worth 400 USD. My 16 year old just took a class at the same school as part of public high school the value was almost 800 USD.
This person is a spokesperson for the loan industry . She does not have a problem with interest and welfare for the rich but when it comes to helping the poor she has a problem . Welfare for the rich spokesperson . Let her talk about the massive welfare spending on war and bank bailouts . Right now 95 billion a week . Can’t hear her (silence). We live in a capitalist society that looks after the rich . The people get the capitalism the bills .
making a payment is drag, welcome to being a goddamned adult, wtf
Forgiving student debt is one of the less progressive plans I can think of. It literally takes money from poor working class people and uses it to bail out middle class (or future middle class) people.
No it doesn't. It takes money from the billionaires who have stolen trillions from us. And either way, I'd much rather my tax money going towards someones education than killing brown people for profit.
People generally making under 40k typically make back their tax payments as refunds... So its almost a 0-0 plan...
It largely targets middle and higher class people from bailing out middle class students...
I'm currently paying $1000/month for the next 3.5 years so its not like I don't feel the pain, but I also agree with Reason's video.
We need to go after colleges and ensure that colleges are held accountable for bad majors by making them switch over to ISAs instead of loans... They would be held accountable for bad majors that the job market doesn't have much space for and might even encourage people to take out loans for STEM majors. We need more STEM majors in this country.
@@usmanGTA “Go after” is rather unnecessary. Simply remove the free money and watch the market correct the problem.
Most of them are quite a bit above middle class
These loans are 8%. If the loans were reasonable, like the kind of rate homeowners and the wealthy were/are able to take out, that would be a lot more fair.
I worked two night janitor jobs and lived in a slum to get out of college barely avoiding debt, but that was in 1990 when tuition was about two thousand a year. Today, tuition at my same college is in the tens of thousands.
I can't stand how heartless my generation is to young people. "Here's 30 trillion of national debt (OURS); a warming and more dangerous world (because of OUR collective negligence, stupidity and greed); oh, and come up with an extra thousand or so every month to handle your rip-off healthcare plan that's shot through with holes -- just don't go getting cancer, cuz you'll be SCREWED for life! (but boy OUR 401ks are sure doing great thanks to decades of bailouts, taxcuts & stimulous!). Bootstraps kids. Bootstraps."
I made life choices that didn't involve me going in debt for college. I made those choices specifically because I didn't want the debt. If student debt is paid off I expect a check covering the cost I would have racked up.....and I would have gone to Harvard.
Me too! I went to cheaper, less prestigious schools to avoid massive debt. If loans get forgiven anyway, I would have gone to a more expensive and better school. And I could have had a better job today.
Part of the problem is the perception that college is a 'right of passage' or the ONLY way out of poverty. It's neither.
It's a product you buy, like a car. You made a purchace and you were free to make a poor choice OR a good choice.
And the other problem is there are a lot of jobs that don't really need to require a degree, but the govermnent bully requiring certification allows big companies to reduce their competition to a tiny bottle neck. One study found that doctors trained in apprenticeship and also those who did NOT get a bachelor's before entering medical school showed IMPROVEMENT on performance in the field. If college can show a negative impact on the performance of doctors, why on earth would we require college from anyone in order to enter a profession? There are much better ways to train and test professionals for proficiency. And a shift towards apprenticeship could go towards solving another problem: the overinflated medical costs in the US. If doctors could be trained more quickly, less expensively, and get better results than our 'tradition' of college; wouldn't that be a win all around?
Often I think government officials and news media focus on a small problem or possible solution when we need to question the foundation of a much bigger system in play. But obviously, they don't want to reveal how government is often the CAUSE of these problems and rarely its solution!
You're gonna have to post that study because it sounds like total bullshit that more educated people make worse doctors.
@@Bolizen I found the study discussed in a book I read that focused on medical education studies over 15 years ago. I don't remember the title or author. I'm just not going to go to the effort to find it for a UA-cam comment, but you feel free to research further ;)
It's important to question the traditions of our society against advancements we've made since those original beliefs about the necessity of college were marketed to the public. Most people just take the benefit of college for granted but I have ADHD, so my brain is far more resistant to tradition. I question EVERYTHING (and yes, it's exhausting).
I do remember the authors theorized that the method of classroom learning where you memorize lots of info without applying the knowledge in real world situations actually makes you less observant to the real life cases later in practice. They also found medical school frequently induces the same side effects as brainwashing; arrogance, rigidity, sticking to taught dogma inspite of new evidence, reduced empathy/understanding opposing viewpoints and more. Because medical school throws more info at you than you can possibly question, test and research for yourself, students just end up memorizing things and don't rely on their own observation or experience. And it's not much of a leap from there to understand that a doctor who doesn't learn from their observations and has been taught to ignore new conflicting information... might not be the best doctor.
The fact that midwives reduce mother and infant mortality in Europe vs the US over doctor supervised births alone might be a good way to show side by side what care through an apprenticed medical professional can do vs one that goes through medical school. Other evidence does exist, but obviously colleges have lots of money to argue and market the opposite opinion, and they're going to be biased against other forms of learning even if they're measurably better.
I think the evidence shows there's great value in apprenticeship learning. I had the benefit of being able to go to college as well as work in an apprenticeship and I learned much more that was useful, and more quickly in the apprenticeship.
I just recommend doing your own research, WHY is such a powerful question. Why are we doing things this way? Is it actually because it's the best way available? Or because someone is financially motivated to convince people to do it a certain way? Sadly- most traditions/expectations in our modern society are not best or even healthy, just popular because of marketing and media.
When Congress bailouts crooks in Wall Street and "to big to fail" companies, it's understandable for students want such a thing.
To be fair, the taxpayers made a PROFIT from bailing out wall street and all those banks. Billions of that aswell.
Companies were ashamed, and wanted to make back the full money including interest to gain back public trust.
Institutions that loan money also make $12 for every dollar they loan out to students so that’s to be fair as well they’re making a giant profit off the facts of students and interest.
yeah but bankers are productive.. students are serfs
A service provided by a publicly funded, privately owned, operated & profiting institution is advertised to us in the classroom. From our formative years before our cognitive faculties & critical thinking develop. In an institution truancy officers will hunt us down and drag us to if we try to avoid going to. Trusted authority figures who will punish us for contradicting them encourage us to take out more money than most of us will understand the value of while we're too young to get any other kind of loan. We're told what we choose to study is more about what interests us than what is actually in demand. Just start by getting into college and then figure the rest out later. "Find yourself" to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year. "The degree will get you a much better job than you could ever get without one, and you'll pay it off in no time." College and university has been sold as something it simply isn't.
Any debt forgiveness needs to come with a formal apology, an end to this massive campaign of fraud & grooming, and a refund on all these degrees that are not worth the price of admission. I would happily pay the price tag if I knew it went towards the marxist infiltrated faculties that have been churning out debt-laden bitter alienated people with inflated egos and no practical skills beyond finding creative ways to blame unfashionable minorities for all the world's problems were finally held accountable for failing their students in the worst way (something I suspect was deliberate in an attempt to build a large enough population base desperate enough to get their dumbass revolution off the ground).
It's surprising that bankruptcy currently exempts student loans. But not too surprising. I've had to deal with it in the past (not because of student loans). It can be painful, but I went years reversing bad credit decisions in order to stave off bankruptcy as long as I could. Allowing student loans to be included in bankruptcy is the least bad way to deal with them if they can never be paid off.
Not really surprising. If subject to bankruptcy, they would/should be subject to standard actuarial analysis. This means most students wouldn't qualify.
How can you force loans on institutions who know they aren't going to get repaid?
Want a social work degree? Denied. Gender studies? Denied. Want to be the 10000th romance language scholar this year? Denied.
Students should be doing their own analysis on whether their degree will pay for itself. Many are not, of course, but I struggle to understand how that is the fault of anyone else.
Allowing student loans to be included in bankruptcy is the worst solution, I think. That’s just going to become an awesome loophole. By the time you graduate you’re unlikely to have any assets whatsoever, and filing for bankruptcy would be relatively easy since there’s nothing that can be repossessed. The opportunity to discharge the debt, pay only a portion of it or pay on easier terms would incentivize the borrowers to file for bankruptcy. And the existence of such opportunity would disincentivize lenders from offering loans, making the loan conditions even worse.
For a country like the US there simply are no solutions this simple for any problems. There are too many people and powerful institutions with responsibilities to even more powerful institutions involved everywhere, and it seems to me that fields like education or healthcare, the two primary pressing topics for Americans, are quite close to the equilibrium to be restructured in any significant way.
What do you think?
I think the best idea is to stop treating student loans like free money and start treating them like actual loans. Make people apply for them and actually justify what their plans are and how they plan on repaying them. Too many kids just get peer pressured into going without clue about what they actual want or even have sufficiently mature mindset to handle the decision and end up in terrible debt and/or unemployed.
Add allowing student loan bankruptcy with all the consequnces of that would be fair.
@@HontasFarmer80 Yeah definitely, that came to mind but I figured that's a pretty common proposal so I didnt think it would be as interesting to mention.
STUDENT DEBT SHOULD NEVER BE FORGIVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Counterargument: Student loan debt is a product of a state sanctioned fraud that targeted children. It should be forgiven on that basis alone.
Hot take, i like
If not for the children of upper class parents who got a degree in basket weaving, at least for the people who were lied to by every high school administrator that a degree would put them on track to a stable life and then left unprepared to actually make an honest go of it in college and beyond.
Not actually children (at least by the time they're a couple of years in) and they're not the only ones that are victims of state fraud. Who's going to pay for it all?
I'm a boomer who's seen this coming for decades. Older generations of voters have generally stood by and let all this insanity happen. Some will be hit harder than others in the ensuing depression and that's unfair in some cases too.
Oh yeah, you can take out student loans at 17. I can't think of any sort of debt that you can do that for.
@@sallydeb they're barely 18 when they go to college, a lot of them are applying for the loans before they even turn eighteen. But more important is that they spend the previous 6 years as children being taught that this is something that they need to do. That this will get the a good job, and that there's no alternatives. All of which is a lie
I agree because otherwise I should get repaid for the student debt I paid off - that would only be fair. I work for the post office by the way, so I'm a public servant. Imagine how much that would add to the cost
Sucks to suck Rich. Thanks for delivering our mail though!
I had a friend who went to college for 8 years and he ain’t no dr.
I don’t think taxes should pay for it. Something like 25% of college students come from the top 10% of income. The poor would be paying for the rich to go to college.
My oldest daughter advisor told her to take classes she didn’t need to graduate for her degree.
The top 10% don't have student debt lol
It's literally the rich paying for the poor to go to college.
@@Bc232klm yeh not shit... what an ignorant comment.
No, the poor wouldn't be paying for the rich. Think about it a little more.
@@Bc232klm so the rich will take advantage off the tax systems but won’t take advantage of a discount on student debt huh?
If they forgive the student loan debt, it will do nothing but add more to the issue of rising college tuition costs as universities and students know that the debt will always be covered. Hence, the universities will continue to increase the cost of college tuition, and students will keep on taking meaningless degrees which could lead to severe consequences in the future.
Bingo. Funny though, they could've used that same statutory authority to lower interest rates to 0.1 percent or something until 2099, and ended the payment pause in January.
That would've cost a fraction of the money and been more politically malleable, not to mention far less likely to have gotten sued in court.
The fact that WASN'T the plan really shows where these politicians heads are at.
She hit the nail on the head college tuition is priced outside the market because they can with generous loans. Why should I pay for some idiot to party for 4 years and get a woman's study degree.
I accumulated $70,000.00 of debt when I graduated with my Ph.D in chemical physics. Mostly from my masters education and stupid financial decisions (purchasing a new car). I couldn't move, out of state, for a six digit salary offered due to a long and strenuous custody battle I was undergoing that further spiraled me into more debt. However, there were two things that catalyzed my yearning to pay debt off:
1.) I took a course in financial econometrics. There was the possibility of me working with several major banks to pricing derivatives and financial forecasting. A course in basic economics should be mandatory for everyone. It would civilize our society to the utter nonsense of today's society. Hence, the reason it's not taught. That was the most important course I ever took. It completely diminished my views of left-wing ideology and a lot of right wing ideology, as well.
2.) I took a position as a teaching professor in chemistry and physics. I witnessed the hordes of students that were positioning themselves in debt. The worse were the classes in physics and chemistry for non science majors. I could not believe the intelligence levels of many liberal arts major. To be clear, not all of them were of sub par IQ's. However, they were the minority and not the majority. I learned rather quickly that the majority of students don't belong in university and a plethora of degrees are truly worthless.
I moved in with my parents. I taught as many classes as I could. I waited tables. I'm no better than anyone else. I paid my student loans off within 4 years while paying child support and private schooling for my daughter.
It sounds to me that you made plenty of mistakes, but learned from them and made it all right in the end. That's better than most people do.
We need more people like you. This whole idea of "loan forgiveness" directly adds to the sense of entitlement and victimhood so prevalent in today's society. And the government is at the very root of it.
so you wish everyone go through that just because you did… makes sense not!
@@alexcipriani6003 Take responsibility for YOUR MISTAKES. No one forced you to do anything.
Furthermore, you want everyone else to pay for YOUR MISTAKES.
I have about 50k of student debt. I don't want the government to tax the citizens to pay for my debts. I want the government to get out of the way and stop dstryng the economy so I can have a stable job so I can pay off my debts.
I am in same boat I have about 40k left. What I would like is to be able to claim ALL the interest on my taxes. I was WAY over the $2500 cap on interest for the first 10 years. now in year 16 of repayment I am on the back end paying mostly principle which can't claim a fucking cent of...
Also I am a FFELP borrower which is worse because most likely if student debt is forgiven it will not include FFELP loans just like all the Covid deferements didnt.
My son got thru a private STEM school debt free. He did that by getting an ROTC scholarship and promising the next 6 years of his life to the military, which could very possibly get him killed, especially given this admin’s disastrous foreign policy. He’s been deployed since March, we hope to see him in October. So see? You can go to college debt free, it just takes SACRIFICE. If he did all that for nothing, if student loans get paid for all the losers who have gender studies degrees and made NO sacrifice, I will be livid. We’re a military family, I love this country but something like that would make me look seriously into moving abroad, for real. I can’t imagine giving more of my hard earned dollars to a country that would screw my son over like that. And he would be far from alone, millions of people have funded college thru the military, putting their literal lives on the line to further their education. To just piss on all of them with loan forgiveness would be a bridge too far.
if you have a giant student loan and high overhead costs of living, you may find yourself only paying off the interest. this was the case with me for several years after graduating. one solution that makes sense to me is to eliminate the interest and have students pay back principal. perhaps there is some detail i am missing, but it seems the fairest way to ease the burden and keep responsibility in the hands of the students who took on the loans, and not taxpayers
I'm not entirely against some amount of loan forgiveness.... If they stopped issuing loans for college first. Then we can have an actual discussion about fixing the root cause before just treating the mess it's made.
Exactly. Student loans are a scam we trick young people into, guidance counselors and high school administrators tell them, "take out this loan or you will be poor!" So many young people were scammed to boost some administrators' "college acceptance" numbers. These are people they've been told they can trust their whole lives. Step 1 is to stop issuing new loans. And then step 2 is partial forgiveness. I don't see anti-scam measures as being anti-libertarian. Libertarianism can only work when scams are punished and people have good information.
And also they should renounce all degrees of those who got their loan forgiveness(they could decide not to apply and pay out, though)
Nobody should profit off such decisions. It creates unjust society.
No more garunteed by government student loans
Forgive interest
I very much agree. Some occupations (Social Work, Addiction Consolers, etc.) require an advanced degree, but the salaries of these positions, even at their top end, will not allow someone to pay back the student loan. Or if they do, no funds towards home ownership or retirement. Going forward, some of the fields of study in college need to be like the military academies, in that the only way you attend, is a full scholarship. No scholarship, you cant attend. We also need to address loan maximums, especially on degree programs that are essentially, "enrichment learning". Our colleges have far too many programs of study that have little to zero marketable value in terms of a career, and a salary that will pay off those student loans.
I think this is the politically prudent way to approach this issue, you aren't going to get an abolishment of the current system without giving anything to the other side. I'm willing to compromise if it means we actually fix the root cause, like someone else said interest forgiven or similar. I'll forgive interest in exchange for no more federally backed loans or at a bare minimum making them dischargable in bankruptcy.
We routinely forgive collective debt load like this for business without a peep from these doyens of financial responsibility. But then it's always framed as necessary for the economy.
They need to pay their damned loans. But also, it's probably time to crush the university system and the bullsh1t charges they have.
College tuition will drop off a cliff once we can get the Federal Government out of the student loan business.
Before debt can be forgiven, endowments must be used to offset the debt, even if that means endowments must be confiscated.
Privatize all colleges! You can either afford for it or not. Get the government out of the lending business. Schools can issue scholarships or incentive whoever they want.
Why do we keep calling it "Dept Forgiveness?" Nothing is being Forgiven, American Taxpayers are being forced to pay the tab!
I love when girls don't wear eyeliner but still look attractive
Not to mention it relieves people of the consequence of their decisions.
Thank you for sharing this information. We need to make improvements on how our education system operates.
My student debt was forgiven when I paid it off. 🇺🇸
Even the newspeak phrase "student debt forgiveness" offends me. Let's call it "forcing the productive to pay for others' poor financial decisions".
You're not supposed to speak the truth
That's not even accurate, college grads still earn much more on the aggregate. They just don't want to pay for the asset that let's them earn it. Take AOC, earns 160k+ a year bur still doesn't want to pay off her debts.
It's just more of the left-wing procedure of buying votes with other people's money.
You just described 90% of welfare programs
Where's the responsibility of the issuer of the loan...? Also worth examining is the gov't revenues generated from the interest on the 1.6 Trillion in loans and the opportunity cost of the money spent on debt repayments - as the pmts would go to 'productive' generators of goods and services in stead of the beast.
Right on!!! Th freeloader contingent is now shocked. Someone told them to pay up. A Degree in Basket Weaving is a example of just how far out of line our post secondary institution's are.
I Could’ve gone to a much more prestigious school. I chose not to because I understood the cost. I graduated debt free.
But yet every year I hear high schoolers wanting to go out of state private because they like the dorms and the “social aspect”. For a lot of people it’s a 100k booze cruise credit line.
The topic of student loan forgiveness came up at my work, and our dept director joined and said that she planned on using the $10k to pay off her Masters degree and that she had not made a payment since the Covid debt suspension started. It got real quiet real fast...
The last great student loan reform was tucked into one of the major Obamacare bills. The government makes a profit on student loans, and because of quirks of government accounting these profits help hide the true cost of Obamacare. There is no incentive to deal with loans and every incentive to keep the gravy train going. What is needed is to immediately end loans to new borrowers and eliminate all loans to existing students within four years, allowing current students more than enough time to finish existing programs. The current system encourages staying in school and getting more useless degrees to delay the start of payments.
College is a waste of time and money
We need to heavily invest in public education, and you're a great example.
it was not a waste of time for me. Money is subjective... I certainly wish I wasn't paying $800 a month right now... but I might have not been the person I am today working where I am with who I am with.
My choices were really only college and a ton of debt or military service. I could have died on a mountainside in Afghanistan in the early 2000s...
so maybe being in debt isnt a waste...
For 90% of people who go there, yes it is.
@@Bc232klm Then explain how the U.S. became a global superpower before we even had the department of education.
What about those people who work their blue collar jobs because they couldn't afford degree?
They just were dumped on?
Let's punish those who went to affordable schools or sacrificed to pay off debt and reward those that made bad college decisions or bought toys and vacations with their income.
Also as most loan debt is held by doctors and lawyers, etc. This is another subsidy of the upper class funded by the lower class.
Just now found this video on March 1st. I can't wait to see your video on the "PPP Loan Forgiveness" that even our own members of Congress benefitted from. I will anxiously be watching your channel for it!
People are wrong to think that the cost of college does not come out of the economy. It will come out of the economy, imagine someone working a job while studying to prevent from borrowing for college. But the employer is providing tuition assistance. That employer is a retail store. The retail store has to significantly inflate his prices to cover his cost of paying tuition for his employees...
If you're going to bailout the banks, the airlines, and the car companies, while giving handouts to chip manufacturers, military contractors, weapons manufacturers, and the pharmaceutical industry, while also treated any social safety spending as a defect pipeline of tax dollars to private industry... then just cancel the f@cking debt already. Jesus.
Libertarianism is when you expect a dumb, jobless, 18 year old to be responsible with 100k worth of debt but not the biggest banks who are allowed to irresponsibly lend out bad loans.
You're very dim, aren't you? These giant loans are given by the federal government. Which we would like to mostly get rid of.
2:52
When I was in college, I went to a community college to knock out all the gen-ed courses, got my A.S. in law enforcement. $1200 a semester, including books. One of my professors was actually the head of the police academy. I was working two jobs at the time. On top of school.
I went on to get a B.S. in criminal justice at a pseudo-Ivy League university, with a minor in poli-sci. I was working 16hr shifts, all weekend (1600-0800) then driving an hour to school, to make my 1100 class. I was working 4 jobs at the time, if you count going to school full time, as a job.
I graduated, decided I didn't want to be a cop, and kinda fell into nuclear security. And fell wildly in love with it. My first year, I made almost $60k. Straight out of college.
My student loan debt was under $20k. When I bought my first house, I had $27k in the bank. Although cutting a $9k check for the down payment made my skin crawl a little.
My points are, find some place in the ven diagram between, "job I'd like to do," and, "job that pays well." Then figure out the cheapest path to get there. And like Mike Rowe said, always look at the trades.
Criminal Justice/security seems like a safe bet as with RN/medical, there's always jobs. Good for you!
@@derrickmcadoo3804 It's the six P's.
Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
@@jackstecker5796 Lol. Never heard that before, but agree.
I played a few 'city-planning' type PC games as a teen, and your quote reminded me of that. Essentially, once you get better at the game, you realize the importance of strategic layout first, to account for both initial, and future development. And if you don't have the know-how to make progression, 'seamless', then in the periods between trying to 'catch up' to demand, you're losing a lot of money.
Perhaps I should have went into Civil Engineering. lol
@@Silvermoon1142 Oh, I didn't buy the house straight out of college. I scrimped and saved for 5 years, before I pulled the trigger. 4 years after that, I was a Sergeant pulling down $95k a year.
And no wife. I had a candidate, but she decided she liked vodka more than she liked me.
Reason is getting better at videos. I’m very grateful for the share
Excellent video. Thank you 👊💜👊
Tuition became so high because so many folks are willing to go so massively in debt for it.
Cancelling it may mean freedom for a select few, but that means taxpayers from all goes to that, increasing inflation, and will do absolutely fucking nothing to address the cause for the ever-increasing tuition.
I graduated in 2022. I went to community college in a full academic scholarship, transferred to a state school after getting my associates on another academic scholarship. Worked every semester, took full summer semesters 2 years, worked full time every other summer and worked part time during spring and fall for 4 years. Lived in a cheap shitty apartment, but graduated self funded debt free. My car was 36 years old but I didn't care, my parents didn't give me any money.
The paywall/debt situation with higher education was designed to keep certain groups in the country under control, and supporting it in any capacity tells me where you stand. Good job being their loyal little pawn, hopefully they're paying you well for it. When everything inevitably comes crashing down, I wonder if you'll be able to look back on these videos and be proud of them.
Excellent… Thank you very much
Forgiving loans, to be fair, would have to become a mainstay for those who will enter college for years to come. Instead they need to educate those that make the loan.
they forgot to mention (or maybe im stupid) the people who never took out loans and paid out of pocket. or people who became independently successful without school at all.
Excellent piece. Thank you.
Here my thought to get us going in the right direction. Since student loans cannot be written off in a bankruptcy, it makes the loan the most secure loans on the planet so the interest rates should reflect this fact. In addition to that, a quality college education is very good for the economy. So because of these two facts students should be allowed to take loans out at a much lower rate. Basically add on a servicing charge for the loan processer above the rate the bank can borrow at and there is your student loan rate. I've luckily paid off my loans a few years ago, but my interest rates were variable and none of them were less than 5.75% and some of them were in the 8% plus range. This is highway robbery considering they can literally garnish you SS, wages and taxes until you die.
If you cant read the loans your signing you arent ready for college, pretty damn simple
0:24 This has to be the most misleading graph of all time.
If someone with forgiven student loan debt complains about the next bank or corporate bailout, I don’t want to hear it.
National Tuition Cap!
Is funny how whenever there's a 1,400 dollar check or 10,000 cancelation to the low or the middle class ( if there is such a thing) everyone call for the national debt. When the Rich and billionaires get taxpayers money that somehow is not mentioned.
you know she's lying
because reason TV revives 150 million dollars from the Koch Brothers. Charles koch makes money on debt. he dgaf about working class people
@@breadhed2486 not only they dgaf they might see them as liabilities. When the working class gets a crumb the word Socialism come out. When the rich uses my tax payer Dollars is called a bail out. how comes any working class falls for this brainwashing?
I guess Napoleon was right divide and conquer. Blame the Mexicans this time.
Limit the forgiveness to the persons income. If you make under the 50-60, 000, then that degree is not helping.
Why doesn't the geezer start by giving up his money to pay off the student loan before asking the rest of us?
I agree with you! Some even took Loans that was not even used for school, I think the best thing is to reduce the interest on the loan but I don’t agree with free! Same argument I made when people kept asking for more wage, economics 101.
If public student debt is forgiven, then I want an equivalent value check. I chose a career path that doesn't involve college. Forgiving that debt is basically handing those students a check to pay off their debt, so where's MY check?
If student loans weren't so easy to access and available then I'm sure prices of tuition would grossly come down. It's absolutely asinine to see tuitions regularly above $60,000 per year. That's more money than the average American makes... And for what? There is no information you'll learn in a college setting that isn't technically already available online or in books. While college is still necessary for fields requiring hands-on training and experience, it's a sad surprise to see how in the age of free information it's more expensive than ever.
The fact that the government got involved in loans is the reason college is so expensive. The government literally sucks at everything it does and it takes existing processes and makes them more inefficient and costly.
@@chrisbenson2430 Absolutely!
Similar problem is in many countries even in my country where University is free yet students still take loans to pay rent and stuff living in another city.
Government opens or allows universities to be opened everywhere to make the economy more alive.
If Reason TV really cared about the effect on the budget of forgiving these loans then why don't they protest that the government pays off these loans when the debtors die.
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness was broken to begin with. It has denied more than 90% of applicants. If it worked, it could be an incentive for more people to go into public service.
I would be in favor of a regulation of college tuition where a degree cannot cost more that then the median gross yearly salary of people who have graduated the program from that college degree program. This keeps prices reasonable and encourages colleges to cut non productive degrees ie liberal arts. I would also be in favor of a regulation that prevents classes that have nothing to do with the degree being required to graduate. Just cutting the useless stuff out will lower future debt by 50%. Adding a cap on how much can be charged will also encourage streamlining and quick turnaround because instead of a bottomless pit of money there is a finite amount each person can be charged based on the value of the degree they are paying for.
Who says liberal arts - or any humanities etc degree is useless/non productive?
Yep. I still owe $18000 and I fully agree.
Required Military Service
Simple :
Note 📝: More time served, more debt 💸 relieved 🇺🇸
Now, First 2 years community or trade college should be free.
That I could actually support
"Stossel: The College Scam" here on Reason is a great companion video to this!
My #1 choice would be to abolish the federal student loan program, and make banks liable for issuing bad loans.
My #2 choice would be to make federal student loans interest free. If the program is intended to help people, crippling them with interest payments is not helping.
Without federal backing the banks won’t make the loan. If an 18 year old wants to walk into a bank and take out a loan of upwards of $80k with no credit history and no collateral they’ll be rejected instantly. Magically turn it into a college loan and suddenly the money becomes available.
#2 you can do this only if you paid student loan in gold, bitcoin or any other hard money, which is not inflatable as balloon.
Interest on dollar denominated loans is inflation adjustment, not real interest.
Any form of subsidy will be soaked up by increased prices including interest free loans. It's also unfair to people who sacrifice to achieve careers that have different expenses other than university degrees. Both the graduates and other taxpayers have to pay more taxes which also contributes to inflation.
If the government really thinks higher education is so important , then student loans should be interest free. Borrow a dollar, pay back a dollar. Not one cent more, but you must pay it back.
Only reason they want student debt forgiveness is because two thirds of women hold that debt if it were men no one would give a damn they'd be expected to pay that back like good responsible adults
Lowering the ridiculous standards of the public loan service forgiveness was actually extremely smart. Only 3% of eligible candidate for that forgiveness program actually received it .
I'm coming around on student debt forgiveness on ONE CONDITION: The money has to come out of university endowments.
Go to work for Boeing then have them pay for school and pay you to finish!
Student Debt Forgiveness is the worst policy and it must be blocked !
Colleges should finance their degrees themselves and if the student goes bankrupt their debt must be dischargeable.
I went to an affordable university but it was still expensive so I worked two jobs while taking classes part time. It took me a lot longer to graduate but without huge debt. I guess I should have gotten a giant loan and then whined until Uncle Sam forgave it. I shouldn’t have to foot the bill as a taxpayer for some upper middle class brat to go to an elite college for a degree in underwater feminist basket-weaving.
Student debt is actually around $30k for most people. Its managble, and the statistics support this.
Most of the debt comes from graduate programs and such.
But the people with massive student debt arent the ones who graduate. Their the low income students that went to college, acrued debt, dropped out, and havent been able to pay the debt, and are stuck in that cycle.
Wiping student debt is supposed to help these people, that have put themselves in this type of situation due to stupid societal pressures, and to help these people get into Trades jobs.
I personally beleive in a debt forgiveness program for the people that simply have low income and found out that they didnt want to pursue a certain career path.
But forgiving student debt for the top 10% of earners is stupid.
I've also been advocating NOT cancelling student loan debt on Twitter, myself. In addition to the reasons mentioned in the video, without repayment of current (~$1.7T) loans, where will the money come from for student loans in 2023, 2024,...?
To combat inflation, money won't be printed. That leaves raising taxes or selling more US treasuries, which get repaid with taxes (plus interest). Maybe canceling the program altogether is warranted. Maybe students should borrow from banks. It'll be a higher interest rate, but if they don't repay, banks will damage their credit score resulting in a higher interest rate for a mortgage, car loan or credit card.
I feel that if they are going to forgive loans, they need to fix the system first. Make them bankruptable, and allow anyone who filed since they changed the law to have them wiped away. Make it so you have to show the market value of the degree and lower how much people can borrow. It's the only loan without collateral that an 18 year old can get with no job
I had over $200,000 in student debt. I paid back every cent. Now I have the burden of a higher tax bracket. Talk about inequality.