@@kahsjdkahddf1258 yes, but there are so many people who believes the government should not. There is this ideological problem: government is always inefficient, it is always better to have private companies do everything.
It's NOT important for the HSR or any other railnetwork in China to be profitable because that's NOT it's main goal. The main goal is infrastructure improvement, to make it easy for people and business to travel. Btw the HSR in China is extremely good. Spacious, clean, fast, frequent and reliable with rather cheap tickets. Every time I have to take the train in the Netherlands I'm encountering exactly the OPPOSITE of the chinese HSR trains.
for west a company must earn profits, for China maybe we lost some money on hsr, but we earn more money on business, travel, industrial etc. So take it as whole to evaluate, the society is profitable. This is our strength by the political system you west never know and couldn't do it. Stay jealous if you live in a capitalism society.
900B is about 1 year's worth of the US defense budget. It is also less than 1/31 of the US gov't debt or 1/72 of US total all sector debt. So don't sweat it for China's HSR. It moves over a billion people around with ease and comfort.
Wrong, not just rail lines, airports, airlines, luxury apartments, regular apartments, and skyscrapers that are half empty or losing money.See, China was adept at posting fake data (GDP) and images. They have a smaller population than reported. Real estate ponzi scams caused China's debt to reach 55 trillion dollars. In addition, China is experiencing another pandemic right now. What you don't get is China doing things without the ratification of that process, i.e. without thinking it through and doing the research.
China would rather make travelling affordable and efficient, investing in the long term Think how many cars are removed from the roads and the pollution and costs reduced compared to America
dont forget how much the amount of US spend on war on terror in afganistan and middle east, and also the most recent ukraine war. Those budget probably more than the budget of building high speed rial in cina
882 billion investment on infrastructure is bad investment and bad for environment? Is 800 billion on military spending a good investment and good for the environment?
China continues to shrink its availability of clean soils and water way faster than any improvements in agricultural productivity; they're already a huge net importer of food and only becoming more dependent on sources outside their territory. Meanwhile American military bases ironically make up considerable amounts of protected natural reservations.
Yes its bad considering their people can't use it. The american military invests more than anyone else in the world for green technology so id say its good.😊
$882 billion the debt accumulated over 15 years. It is not the investment. The investment is higher. $800 billion is only 1 year's expenditure on the military.
I have taken the Chinese rail network between Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Nanning a few times. I didn't experience any of the negatives you mentioned in this video. Much of the route was elevated on a trestle allowing life to continue normally under the trestles. This is excellent for communities and animal migration. The train did not seem noisy either. From a customer experience point of view, the station experience was smooth and large enough to meet the volume of users. The subway / metro systems had stops in the long distance high-speed train stations. The trains were very clean and food service was offered. The trains had personnel on board to assist the passengers. I suggest that you make a trip to China and spend a week riding their trains. They may not be perfect for everyone, but are successful at providing low cost mobility for the world's largest country.
The problems are not about the trip on the train, the problems are the process of build the rail. As a passenger, you'll never experience the building process of the rails.
@@samhuangsanjia No matter how travelers travel, it will ultimately have an impact on the environment. You can't criticize a transportation construction project because of the pandemic. This videois full of salty, which is very cringe.
@@samhuangsanjia LOL, everybody can see the high speed train system in China is built quickly and efficiently, is it 10 times faster than building any train system in the US?
@@EnjoyFirefighting To be honest all these haters against the video are people who compare US or other non rail based countries. The best comparison can be made with countries like Japan and France, both of them being a highly developed HSR based country. And me personally who regularly used all three mentioned, I must say China had the worst experience overall. It’s not an entire failure, but the drawbacks and differences from TVG and Shinkansen are very clear and easy to spot, making it very outstanding for me negatively and overall inconvenient.
@@HappyGM-R The Shinkansen platforms are shared by multiple trains at very frequent intervals, if you don't pay attention, you could get on the wrong train very easily. On the other hand, there is no way you can get on the wrong train in the Chinese system because every train has a dedicated boarding gate, if you go to the wrong gate, you will be denied boarding. How could you say that the Chinese system is the worst among the three?
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like the video said. This video is full of sour grapes.
Building it once is only fraction of total cost though - maintenance adds at least as much over prolonged period of time. Question is can all lines really be maintained. I believe lines between Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou will do well but others may struggle. Problem with high speed is that it is simply more expensive way to travel than a slower train and typically majority of population would rather save money and go on slower train because they just don't have money to afford the more expensive fast train. Thus less ridership on fast trains thus difficulty to sustain and maintain it over prolonged period of time.
@@sk-sm9sh still not a complete disaster. If you have to eventually stop the HSR service, slow trains can run on the same tracks, no? It's not like you have to rip out the tracks and rebuild them for slow speed. Given that the country doesn't already have (enough) rail tracks, should they build HSR or slow-train tracks? It's a different question if the country already has rail, or has recently already upgraded its tracks, but to a speed just below HSR, should it spend more money to upgrade them to HSR? Which is probably why Singapore will never get HSR anytime soon. Malaysia has only recently completed half of its multi-decade long program to upgrade its rail tracks, but the projected started 30-40 years ago, before anyone thought of HSR. So the new tracks, whilst significantly faster than the old ones, is not quite HSR speed. If you are already building out new tracks, should they be HSR or not if it costs 20-50% more? Or you cheap out even more snd build crappy tracks that only support up to 60kmh, but it costs 10-20% less? Each country will have to decide for itself, weighing the unique cost-benefits it faces that will be different.
@@infrachannel Im American too but yeah I think I got lucky with the timing. It was back in 2017 with my college. We said we were there for study though and not vacation
Really, China is pretty safe over all. The main risk is getting hurt in a traffic accident as the traffic there is crazy. For crime, safer than the USA for sure, but less than Japan.
I've used boats, trains and planes in China. The highspeed rail network is by far the best network I've been in. And I'm saying that as a Dutch citizen.
Meanwhile over in America we can't stop with the disastrous derailments of our freight and passenger trains. Heck we just had a chemical spill disaster in the past week.
All this rails and trains need to be maintained at a high standard, that cost a loot of money, if its not done the network will start to decay and become unsafe. Where will they get the money to mantain the network?
Just returned from China, spent 15 days, travelled for more than 5000 miles via HSR in China .. it is a world class train, speed was touching 380km/hr no vibration, management & stations were top notch….
As indonesian citizen and also a Railfan that life close enough to the upcoming HSR Line connecting Capital city and Bandung , iam very exited to be riding the Fuxing CR400AF train with speed up to 350kph.. The track laying is now halfway to completed.. And the High Speed railway will be open next July..
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like it said in the video. This video is full of saltiness and sour grapes.
HSR hny proyek pamer Jkw.. Indonesia ga perlu HSR, yg lbh berguna adlh transportasi publik di berbagai kota bsr.. Brp x org pergi keluar kota, bandingkan pergi kerja & belanja.. Proyek spt ini ga berguna jk proyek jalan antar kota & KA biasa msh minim diluar pulau Jawa.. Tp Jkw tau org Indo buta nasionalismenya, proyek HSR sm dgn proyek bodong Esemka, akan membuat dirinya sangat terkenal tanpa perlu betul2 membereskan masalah inti..
You can be sure companies that operate and build it take very healthy profits. It's bank of china that is covering it basically with people's savings that they hold in chinese banks. If they're unable to pay back we're talking collapse of financial system and country turning into chaos as people start rioting due to inability to take out their savings out of bank.
True communism. Elimination of money. People are allowed to work or not work at anything that is fulfilling and never has to worry about necessities of life which are provided by the communal society. Possessions and possessiveness become obsolete because each person is entitled to the same.
An American dude making an analysis about public investment, train infrastructure, and China is the royal combo of stupidity! Keep up on your amazing investigation!
About the ticket loss issue, the fact is you don't even need a ticket, scanning your ID card will validate your ticket admission when entering the train station if the ticket was bought online, how could you lose your ticket?
@@xiawilly8902 I don't even understand how America is able to do this... they've managed to galvanise seemingly civilian americans to propagate anti China misinformation all fueling the jingoistic rhetoric of the govt... Its actually amazing if it wasn't so dangerous
You need to print the ticket before you take the train (even the ticket was bought online) , then there are still some possibilities to lose the ticket.
There is an misunderstanding about the ticketing system on your video. You don’t actually need to have a ticket to board the train as when you bought it you gave your ID number, therefore you just need your ID to board a train after you’ve paid for your journey.
I have traveled on the CRH (Shanghai to Nanjing). Very enjoyable. Wish the U.S. would add some competition for the airline industry. Airlines: fees, cancelations, connections and cramped. Enough said.
The net annual benefit of the high-speed rail to the Chinese economy is approximately $378 billion. A 2019 World Bank study estimated the rate of economic return of China's high-speed rail network to be at 8 percent. The study also noted a range of benefits which included shortened travel times, improved safety and better facilitation of tourism, labor and mobility, as well as reducing highway congestion, accidents and greenhouse emissions. If only we could have such a DISASTER in the US.
@@ianhomerpura8937 i mean you just got to see where the rail is. Some of the lines go to those really cool ghost cities with 0 people. I would imagine the same people use the lines over and over and are probably in the big cities. The hsr moved 1.9 BILLION people last year yet there are 1.4 BILLION citizens living in china...you are telling me they don't even average 2 rides per person there? That tells me probably a large portion to even a majority of the Chinese populace doesn't use this rail.
Contradictory statements that the train stations are over crowded and lack of enthusiasm from the Chinese to travel on high speed trains. China can afford to invest 800 billion dollars in its high speed train network, therefore no serious concerns there as it also brings about economical developments and benefits for the country as a whole. As far as environmental damage and pollution, people should be more concerned with the pollutions caused by millions and millions of ice vehicles than high speed train. No carbon emission from high speed trains as compared to highly polluting millions and millions of ice vehicles running all around the world. Human Rights violations from high speed train investments? Who's complaining? Do people in China or war torn countries such Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc ever complain about high speed train constructions in China? If western countries dislike modern developments that could bring about pollution and environmental damage, they should then revert back to the stone age where there's no modernity and absolutely no pollutions and environmental damage.
Another thing to note regarding Chinese HSR vs flight is that Chinese airspace is incredibly tightly controlled compared to other parts of the world. It's sorta analagous to how US passenger rail is shitty because of freight primacy, though there's not a 1 to 1 comparison to be made there.
That part is overplayed by, lol, UA-camrs, considering how big the entire industry as it is still expanding is and how many passengers travel by air. But hey, listen to some Murican UA-camrs whose best skill is repeating the same cliché he saw on the “internet”. Wow 🤩
I frequently use the HSR, however I travel Business class. There are 3 classes on the train, Second, First and Business. Business is more expensive but much nicer. I don’t mind travelling 1-3 hours after that it becomes counter productive. For instance I live in South of China, Zheijang region. If I want to travel to Beijing the minimum time is about 9 hours and would have to take a day from work to achieve that. It takes abut 3 hrs flying, same cost.To travel business class return by air costs little more. I could fly and return the same day. By HSR realistically i would be looking at 2 days there and back. You pay your money and take your choice.
Also what is 'lackluster passenger revenue"? I bet you're not talking about 'lackluster revenue' from building interstate highways and freeways to 'solve traffic'? Ridership is excellent on most lines, some of which are already running at capacity and need to be duplicated. I suggest to do some better research next time. Perhaps watch Railways Explained video on that where they did some actual research and didn't just copy/paste some sensationalist article headlines.
There is no 'lacklustre' revenue from highways and freeways, as these are all funded by road taxes, which essentially are user fees. The costs of HSR are usually not covered by user fees, but require a lot of taxpayers funding.
@@91Durktheturk Roads are usually not covered by user fees and are funded by taxpayer, especially in the US, but also most other countries. Your point is?
@@DS.J I just pointed out to you that roads are fully funded by user fees.... In fact, the revenues coming from road taxes exceed the costs of the road network. In the USA, transit is actually partially funded by road user fees coming through road tax receipts.
@@91Durktheturk I just pointed out that this is factually incorrect because road fees do not cover investment and maintenance costs virtually anywhere. Roads are funded from general pool of taxpayer money and road fees and fuel duties only cover small part of that.
@@DS.J This is incorrect. The USA interstate highways that you referred to are fully funded by user fees, in terms of construction, maintenance and operation. And this is the case across Europe as well, with tax revenues collected through road related taxes far exceeding road related expenditures.
Thailand will have their first phase of their northeastern high speed route open in few years time using Chinese CR300 AF trains. Honestly can't wait for it as we can't build enough roads to serve the amount of new cars on the road every year its getting so ridiculously stressful now that even when I have driving license I won't drive when its necessary to do so. Before that I wished to travel to from Laos to Kunming, Yunnan with Laos High Speed rail medium speed train looks like It will be a very popular route in the future for Northen Laos-Southern Yunnan tourism.
Thailand had rail system back when Chinese are still using dirt roads. Its very sad that the SRT wasn't more well managed when you consider Thailand was very early in the railroad game and fell behind. I keep up with the projects on SRT routes and high speed rail routes, I think its good for Thailand to build both systems up, so that way even people that can't afford a high speed rail ticket can still use an upgraded SRT route.
American students are in more debt than this, and all they have to show for it are worthless degrees in Sociology. I would much rather have this. As incomes rise, these resources will get more utilized and the costs can be recovered
When China start a project, the profit is not the first thing that government considers, it’s always the long term benefits for lifting ppl’s life quality, China is not asking any country to copy it, it just want to develop as it’s own way which suits the country the most.
I also had the chance to try the Chinese HSR. From Shanghai to Hefei and on three other routes. Honestly speaking, the railway stations are quite overcrowded, but still safe. Very comfortable seats, no noise throughout the journey.
You felt the stations overcrowded because you probably went to the stations too early. Local people go to the station just a few minutes before departure. They probably couldn't feel or care about the crowdedness.
Infrastructure is never profitable. Highways and airports in the US are also highly subsidised by the government. This video (subsidised by the US government?) sounds more like US frustration because the US itself is unable to realize high rail.
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like you mention in the video. Could it be that you are so jealous of China's high speed rail that pushes you to paint China so bad? LOL
I do have questions about the quote at 4:05. To buy a train ticket in China, you need to use an Chinese ID or passport (to prevent scalping during the Chinese New Year). So you can use your Chinese ID to get on the train without even get a paper ticket... It's not possiable to even lose your ticket, because there is no ticket to lose (Unless you lost your ID). If you want a paper copy (for tax reasons or souvenir or peace of mind), you can print out the ticket from an automated machine, just like the lady did at 4:13. (Note: You still have to present your ID when passing initial security check, making sure the name on ticket and ID match. Using just your ID is just more convenient) I am not sure how it works if you are a foreigner and purchased a ticker using Passport, but I assume they can look up the ticket information at the ticking counter. So yeah that report seems at minimum in accurate. I read the journal myself and there is no citation on the paragraph about losing ticket. So it can be whoever wrote the report just saying personal experience? Or maybe something they heard of? This question probably only the further of that paper knows. It is also possiable that, given the paper was written in 2018, and the "Scan your ID as your ticket" only introduced after that paper published.
in the UK, our tickets are all available on mobile with QR codes to scan at gates outside the platform, and in london, any card allows tap-on tap-off usage on every mode of transit apart from taxis.
China still uses IDs as the link to the ticket. Foreigners generally have to go through the staffed gate on the very side of the boarding lines because they have to manually input your name.
@@doujinflip If your name is within 20 something characters or so you can scan the passport. I have a friend who always has to go through that channel since they cant input their name fully on the app since it wont accept all the required characters. The speed for both channels is about the same though.
Not to the sophisticated financiers of the world. They still buy every US Treasury bond that's offered because it's the most sure form of currency in the world. There isn't an economy anywhere that can compare to the US economy in size, diversity, and the revenue it generates which is more than enough to support its debt obligations. It may be the leader for all countries which want to avoid the predicted coming recession. If the US ever defaults on a payment obligation, it won't be because of an inability to pay (like what China might do after so many authorized Real Estate defaults), it's be only because some Congressional politicians made it impossible to pay.
Sad part is that we spend $800 billion a year on the military and have nothing to show for it. Wish we spent that much every year to build new trains, subway systems, and trams so that in 10 years we didn't a car to get around.
"Debt" is the least of concerns. One government agency owes money to another government agency. This is just a number that doesn't affect anything. The video seems soaked with prejudice and false narratives that have been circulating in the media from the initial phases of construction back in early 2010s. Chinese HSR is amazing and completely transformed the way people travel in the country.
@@polaris1985 MAny lines will not be profitable. But they are not profitable anywhere with only some exceptions. Which is why it is quite outrageous when 'critics' keep mentioning this. Why is noone discussing 'profitability' of new expressways or regular roadways? Railways generate incredibly important value and benefits to the economy which has transformed China and will transform India in the future if similar systįem gets built there.
Making profit through ticket sales is not sustainable, China's main goal is efficient external economic activities(external taxes) by using high-speed railway network
As an Indonesian myself I never tried Chinese HSR before but I tried Shinkansen in Japan several times. And yes I prefer railway like this than plane, faster, just come to station, buy ticket on the spot and just board to the car itself and enjoy the ride. no need to book, running on airport terminal, troublesome security checking.
Large airports can be up to 1 hour from the city. Of course you want to arrive early, for the security line, and another hour at the other end. That's 3 hours already. Planes start off with this deficit. HSR stations can be in the middle of the city, and would be connected to public transport like LRT.
I can only speak for the trips I’ve made between Beijing and Shanghai. -It is true the customer services are not up to western standards, the ticketing example is really the most patent as you buy you ticket online but you still need to go to a both to actually get a physical ticket… that’s a slow and cumbersome process. The train stations are not more crowed that Paris Gare du Nord for those who know it and to be honest it is far cleaner than any train stations in Europe. You also have tight security in the stations too but it’s still faster than in an airport. - from a passenger point of view the comfort of Chinese HST are well above Europeans ones, I cannot speak for Japan trains. You have 3 classes 2nd, First and Business, the prices are lower than in France even when you buy last minute with in Business a real service (food and incredible seating) if you can afford it. - The train itself is faster at its cruising speed than in EU, most of the time it’s 340kph, with like you mentioned in your video complete disregard for the inhabitants of city close to the railways, the trains passing at full speed no matter the noise and shockwaves… - The train station being a little on the outskirts of the cities isn’t always an issue as you have public transportation close by to. You should do the same kind of video for the EU high speed rails networks which is a mess and the open market forced the concurrence to have access to the roads (have their own trains and sells tickets bypassing the state owned companies) will bring chaos and maybe better service…
I ridden the Japanese Shinkansen and I can tell you that it is similar. Some UA-cam video made by Japanese rail fans (who went to China to ride the trains) also agreed on that. Both can stand a coin on the side when cursing. Its definitely much better than the Swedish X2000... not only show at 180km/h, the ride is pretty bad on the tracks... I felt a bit sick multiple times, despite only throw up once on a plane and never on a car. No wonder why the Chinese chose to build a entirely new HST system. (Chinese tried Swedish X2000 train on their existing net work back in the early 2000's. called "Xin Shi Su" translated to "New Speed") As for sound, I don't think its a particularly big problem, the Japanese also ran their trains at 300 km/h+ even with stricter environmental standards. (I recall it's 70 or 80dbs at 10m away from tracks). Their biggest problem is try go beyond 300+ when enter/exiting tunnels (On the JR East lines, they are limited to 270-300 at some segments because of this) as well as limited curvature (JR limited to 275km/h due to curvature). Right now, JR East have an experimental trains aim to allow 340-360km/h operating speed though tunnels (the train is called "ALFA-X"). This is also why JR Ease have those radical train nose design to reduce shockwave from tunnels. The Chinese FuXin trains probably run louder, I recall it is 10 dBs louder than Japanese offering so its possibly 80-90 dBs, most of Chinese trains don't have to deal with tunnels with house near the tunnel entrance/exit. Its defiantly below 90 dBs because I recall I have read a paper regarding the noise on previous CRH380A trains. Both Chines and Japanese trains are comparable to living near an busy street in a city during rush hour (80dbs+) or near an airport. (A jet engine can be ~120 dBs at idle, louder during take off and landing).
Thanks for the additional information, I did appreciate it. I’d just say it’d be a pure nightmare to live close to a French TGV railroad if the trains were to go full speed… not at a jet taking off but way too loud for any human wanting some peace at home !
I only rider Japanese Shinkansen between Tokyo and Kyoto. Its experience is not as good. It has lots of sharp turns and train slowly swings back and forth. It is hard for me to stare laptop and work on train. I think this might be due to old system. Their new system might be better.
well, i just can call out for the german "high speed trains", who often aren't that "high speed"... even specific tracks, who are designed for those trains (the ICE) are often just run on 250km/h - and even the "oldest" ICE runs with 280km/h, while the newest is the slowest (comparision: ICE1: 280km/h, ICE2 is same, ICE3: up to 330km/h (only at one trackpoint!) and ICE4 as the new Velaro: 250km/h. it's a shame for the germans, to have invented high speed trains in europe (in 1903 - with 200km/h; and 1930-1939 with a another train, who got up to 230km/h - before the japanese came 1962 up with a "doctor yellow" and up to 270km/h). why are they so slow? that's easy explained - they just a a few track pieces just for them, all other tracks are for "all" trains - cargo, suburban etc, and that's why german trains can't really being called "high speed" (even when "high speed trains means: faster than 190km/h or 119mp/h), 'cause the often need to drive behind other trains, what limited they'r speed. yes, we germans don't had a dedicated high-speed rail network...
Rail is the second military and has NOTHING to do with profit, just like army and police. The situation in Ukraine has shown that aeroplanes are now useless but railroad works even in war. No single aeroplane is flying in Ukraine but the highest people in the world are arriving there by train as do the weapons provided by lend and lease, being 90 percent on time at any time. Trains can 1030km/h but aeroplanes only 850km/h. Trains can go through snowstorms and rainstorms and mild earthquakes while aeroplanes can't fly in other than full sunshine conditions which cannot exist as there is rain of over 500mm in summer for a whole month. Train drivers are OFFICERS with UNIFORM and RANK and INSIGNIA and march and salute and follow written orders which are printed out every day and not some private company guys wearing suits. Semicon and software developers , that is ,those who matter and earn the bread for the rest of the country, go to and from work everyday up to 500km in such trains.
I live in Canada and we don't have two meters of high speed rail. One of the only industrialized countries in the world. While we are sparse in population, there is a region in Ontario and Quebec that could easily sustain it.
Maybe or mostly likely not. There are actually only a couple HSR lines in the world that actually break even. Every other line loses money, most enormously.
same for australia, study after study on feasibility but nothing ever gets built, Sydney to melbourne is in the top 5 busiest air routes in the world so a fast train would do very well but there is no political will to do it.
Totally agree. I travelled in Via Rail from Toronto to Ottawa. The ride was slow, noisy, and bumpy. I didn't really enjoy the ride. I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like it said in the video.
yes I think the HSR has impact on the environment, however compared to other countries that mainly dependant on roads and jets.. these HSR is more efficient and should have less emissions compared to cars and jet with the same amount of people they able to move. There will always be risk on environment where infrastructure being built whatever mode of transport is worth mentioning China is able to build their HSR connectivity with their cities metro system making it more efficient
Infrastructure in a country is necessary and must. It is your tax money in the working. China has successfully developed and deployed the world longest high speed rail net work to benefit her 1.4 billion citizens. United States spends $2 trillion US dollars in Iraq wars along, $840 billions every year in defense contractors benefit, spends $0 dollar for the benefit of transportation of her citizens. Any questions?
Yes. Where are you getting these numbers from because 0$ invested in Infrastructure isn't true. We literally are spending 2 trillion on it right now...
No matter what it cost, it is money well spent... the US by comparison prints $trillions that at the end of the day makes rich people even richer & has little to show for it.
High speed rail doesn't have to be profitable, at least initially. It should be a strong facilitator for economic growth. I'm interested in how China will eventually make them profitable, perhaps less regulation and generating revenue from areas near stations/HSR tracks?
It's not generating much economic activity unfortunately. Passengers and mail don't actually pay that much, especially since most Chinese are very price sensitive and HSR competes with buses and slow trains as well. If the lines also moved more profitable containers and bulk cargo it'd be a different story.
@@doujinflip What are you talking abou? The HSR nearly killed the domestic flying industry. regions connected through highspeed rail get a 20% tourism boost
It almost never works out that way. It is remarkable how few megaprojects actually meet expectations. Even in dense Europe almost every HSR system is not profitable in addition to providing addition benefit to justify the cost.
As a TGV regular, I can say that HSR is sooo usefull, it is even shorter than taking a car. Yet trains are overcrowded which is making tickets more and more expensive. So the problem here is the opposit to the Chinese one. Yet the benefits are still worth it to my mind. Because It is still a way for me to go back to my familly in a way that is not dooming the atmosphere and that is less expensive than highways.
You need to rid of this idiotic chinese new year thing - kinda same thing like for us on xmas - where nobody takes any holiday except one week when everyone wants to back. Festive holidays is the dumbest thing that our civilizations ever created. Basically you get half empty trains for whole year and then on one week you don't get enough trains for everyone who wants to travel - just how stupid is that?
In contrast, for United State, huge investment in military weapons are much better benefits to the people in the US despite poor high speed rail network across the country.
Public Infrastructure is not meant to be profitable. It's like what Costco does with their hotdogs and what not. The merchandise is the goal. In Chinas case it's being able to allow the public to flow in order to have a dynamic work environment.
OMG A DISASTER!!! I've taken their high speed trains many times over the years, it was clean, smooth, and fantastic. And when I came back to NYC, seeing the rats running on the platform, homeless people sleeping on the trains, looking at the sticky chairs.... yeah it was disaster.
Thank God China doesn't allow tourism in the areas that are not the upper 20%. Thats like saying you went in a 5 million dollar mansion in an area with shacks all around it but came back to a normal neighborhood and you were upset.
@@simonjaz1279 oh really, my wife is Chinese, I lived there for over 10 years and I have business there, I’ve literally been to over 30 Chinese cities if not more. It’s the arrogance like this that makes U.S. vulnerable in today’s world. It’s a fact that we’ve had modern transportation system almost 60 years before they do - NYC’s subway system is literally hundred years old, so it’s almost impossible to replace them with the type of trains and stations China has, you’d have to demolish NYC to do that. But do you wanna take that factor into consideration? No - you just wanna stay in your little shell and dreaming while they are working their ass off on catching up if not passing us already. You are right, 80% of their countries are poor, they are WAY WAY WAY behind us, you just keep thinking that. SMH
You're kind of exaggerating how the numbers are a bad thing. You do know that even the Philippines has 252.5 Billion dollars and the country is still expected to continue spending for infrastracture. Japan has 9.8 Trillion dollar debt. It's the same as how the west perceived the plans of Japan when they decided to spend for highspeed railways. Infrastructure is essential for the economy to grow. Connecting the cities and providing good transportation for goods and manpower is the key to level the playing ground.
Video likely produced and narrated by someone who has never rode China's high speed rails (admits it at 3:28), or has an agenda. I crisscrossed the country by rail in 2014 and was awestruck at the speed (300kmp), affordability, and efficiency. But I guess, like another poster suggested, $800B on military spending per year is so much more smarter of a public expenditure than actually investing in transportation and infrastructure that actually benefits people and economic development. Glass houses.
it doesn’t need to make a profit. it’s a national infrastructure designed connect people together. it’s better connects their economy and cites together. the economic benefits are immeasurable/asset. i don’t think there is an impending disaster looming.
Even though environmental and human rights concerns are highly valuable aspects of any project that shouldn't be overlooked, especially in America, I'm still going to agree with the Chinese government in which the economic and environmental benefits bring forth much more prosperity for decades to come, and will far outweigh the risks associated with air and road travel. At the end of the day, trains are good, whether they be dedicated high speed routes or simply upgrading existing lines, any form of rail is much better than a plane, bus or car. Also, if you're going to cover Europe's HSR network, please don't forget Italo: the privately operated Italian high speed railway that offers the fastest operating speeds in all of Europe (187mph).
Italo isn't the fastest train in Europe! Its speed is the same as the freccia rossa, ICE or TGV, among the others (maybe they don't run at 300 km/h on the entire network). For example the TGVs can reach 320 km/h (200 mph) on the LGV est or LGV méditerranée, or the Spain's Renfe runs at 310 km/h (193 mph) on the madrid-barcelona HSR!
> So you would favor eliminating all government regulations of trains in the United States? You might keep in mind that the United States built the most extensive rail network in the world pretty much without government regulation, other than subsidies. The rail system started to get constipated right along with the extension of government regulation. Do you suppose there is a connection?
@SeattlePioneer I wouldn't say eliminate railway regulations, since that leads to issues that the freight industry is facing with lack of safety investments, but I would suppose streamlining laws that make new passenger rail projects needlessly expensive or time consuming when compared to highways.
Not necessarily. It's the definition of what a bottleneck is. Although total potential capacity can be very high, it can be underutilized because of some kink that prevents full flow.
3:23 Chinese HSR has airport style security and queues. Any future hsr to china (ég from Laos) has to comply with the labyrinthian security measures. Chinese HSR stations are often far from city centers, and cities have to catch up by building express subway connections to HSR. China built good HSR that fulfilled demand, then continued building HSR to an overkill degree, in an effort to keep its construction sector busy. Don't copy the Chinese model. Copy Korea or maybe Spain for cost efficiency, copy Germany and France for integration with conventional rail and use of great preexisting stations, be like tw and copy Japan if your HSR will get earthquakes
This is a really ignorant video. I've never had any of these problems. Also profit isnt the reason why you build public works infrastructure projects. The national highway network in the US is not profitable and is heavily subsidized. These projects are public investments to help improve the way of life for everyday people. Looking thru a solely capitalistic lens isnt the best way to have a strong infrastructure when national buidling
> Yes, China didn't have a lot of spending on wars in the 19th century. They had a lot of wars, and by and large they lost almost all of them. As a result, many countries carved out pieces of China to run. China was not a unified country and numerous different powers carved off pieces of China, and civil wars and warlords controlled much of the country. Since the CCP came to power, they have spent immense sums on their military. They kicked out foreign powers, had only relatively minor wars which have kept foreign countries from occupying China. They have a unified country which is a prerequisite for high speed rail, isn't it? If your country is dominated by warlords, civil wars and foreign occupation by several countries, high speed rail is going to have problems. In short, you are naïve. I'm no fan of the CCP, but your opposition to military power is foolish, considering the alternatives China's history illustrates.
1) about ridership: you can't just connect two places and assume riders will follow. There has to be a connection of some sorts before, and I'm not totally sure, everywhere china built that, there has been. They're skipping the middle step of slow growing demand. 2) about economics: who asks how economically feasible a road is? What's the cost to gain factor or a highway? how much income does a highway even produce? does the US even have a toll system for their freeways in place?... ahh nah, right, it's called a freeway for a reason. Anyways, the goal of infrastructure is not to be economically profitable. 3) about ecologics: again: is the disregarding of ecology of a railway worse than a street would have been? if yes and only then, these claims are viable in general. But I agree, this is not a free ticket for just building everywhere. A good balance has to be found, but it pisses me off so hard, that people think, just because we advocate for a thing, which is better than the current, this thing needs to be perfect in every way. The only to stop polluting nowerdays and live in perfect harmony with nature is to shoot yourself, and even then, the accumulated microplastics in your body would probably pollute the soil^^
The US has fully funded its freeway system through fuel taxation (which actually comes quite close to a toll system). In fact, the receipts for fuel taxes are far higher than the cost of building and maintaining the freeway system.
@@91Durktheturk Not completely. The superhighway Interstate highway system built in the 1955-80's was largely built with federal funds but once built is entirely maintained by the states and fuel tax fees. The US benefits enormously from this and a lot of decades long planning was involved including sinking "dark fiber" in the ground that eventually has been used as a primary backbone for high speed Internet today along with other communication services.
At least in California, expensive and deep studies are funded as part of its major roadway and freeway projects. I've seen plans that extend over 30 years and that sometimes creates a problem because the developing demographics aren't always consistent with what was envisioned 3 decades earlier... People communities sometimes live where businesses were supposed to develop and vice versa, leading to reverse flows of traffic and highways that don't work as designed. That's part of the Progressivism of California, hardly anything happens by accident or a sudden response to some event. Nearly everything that happens is built on efforts that started many Governorships and administrations before the current in office and current work is being done to support what might not happen until decades into the future.
I also rode it. I think if you just to travel to Beijing Shanghai Xi’an and Chengdu then it should be fine. Compared with the experience in Amtrak Midwest, sometimes Chinese HSR has better sceneries. The ride is also smoother. I just haven’t made transfer yet.
What’s annoying is that sometimes people just to play the Chinese version of TikTok on the trains. You better bring a pair of earbud with you. The food is also expensive, at least compared with most of the places in China.
your video showed many negatives and one of them is that the stations are often crowded. Yet, a few frames later, you said the high speed rail system was low in ridership. Do you know that you are talking about?
HSR is basically a financial disaster everywhere. In fact, only two lines in the world actually make money, the Paris Lyon and the Tokyo Osaka line. The issue is that HSR works in a very small number of use cases, and governments then feel compelled to build many more of these lines. This has resulted in a lot of financial disasters. For instance, Japan has also bankrupted itself with HSR construction and has 300 billion dollars in long term debts, which have never been paid off. HSR in Spain is a disaster. In France it is a disaster and let's not get started about HS2 in the UK..... Essentially in any European country that has invested in HSR, ran out of money to maintain their existing railway network, and many rural lines had to be sacrificed to pay for HSR lines. The only country who did it sort of sensibly in the beginning is Germany, as HSR lines were strategically build along important freight corridors, to ensure freight trains could use the line at night time. Many of these older HSR lines therefore start and/or end in freight yards or have easy connections with them (e.g., Hannover Wurzburg line and Mannheim Stuttgart line). Despite that, also in Germany, HSR is associated with skyrocketing costs.
Why should railways and especially HSR have to make a (direct) profit? Using this metric, the Interstate network is a "financial disaster" too. It's a public service, and the profits are indirect; it's all about national economy.
@@stephanweinberger The Interstate network is not a 'financial disaster' as the costs of building and maintaining it are fully funded through gas taxes. In fact, any roadsystem is fully funded through car usage related taxation receipts. In fact, often the tax receipts are two or three times as high as the actual costs of maintaining the road system. So no, you cannot make such a claim. Railways and HSR should make a profit yes, otherwise they are not playing a useful role in the economy and in the transportation of people. There maybe a few arguments whereby railways have positive externalities, such that their profitability is a bit less important, e.g., air quality, congestion reduction, transport of very high volumes of people and so on, but that's it (and, I'd argue that most commuter railways in the Europe ctually do offer relatively high positive externalities and thus have a good reason for existence). The same cannot be said for HSR. HSR is used by a fraction of the population in Europe, often peole on very high incomes. It is also very bad for the environment destroys precious landscapes and needs lots and lots of money to operate. Now, why do the poor through their taxes need to pay for a very expensive train that is only used by the rich?
@@91Durktheturk Even if that's true (I have my doubts; and I know that this statement is not true for my home country, where fuel is more than twice as expensive compared to the US - mainly because of taxes - and we even have a general motorway toll): what's the difference in roads being financed by taxes vs. and rail being financed by taxes. Infrastructure is a public service, it benefits the economy as a whole.
@@stephanweinberger The difference between rail being financed by taxes, and roads financed by taxes, is that for rail, the tax revenues are not obtained from the users of the rail system. For the road system, this is different, the taxation income is directly related to usage of the road system. So in essence, road taxes are an imperfect user fee. But tax funding for rail cannot be seen in that way, because it is not the users that pay for usage. Infrastructure that is way too costly and doesn't generate sufficient direct or indirect revenues to cover the construction costs does not benefit the economy as a whole, but becomes a drag on the economy.
@@91Durktheturk Ok, lets look up the US numbers. In 2020 the US spent 204 billion $ on highways and roads (US Census Bureau). In the same year the revenue from state and local motor and fuel taxes was 52.7 billion $ (statista, unfortunately they hide the actual source behind a paywall) and federal fuel taxes amounted to about 32 billion $ (US DoT). That's only about 40% cost coverage. So even if I missed some big source of revenue, it's highly unlikely that it would come even close to 100%. Also, I only counted direct spending here, without any secondary cost (like eg. accidents). Edit: granted, I talked about "the interstate network" only, which only cost about 50 billion $ annually to maintain. So this alone would in fact be covered by tax revenue. (Albeit, only if we don't include external cost factors.) But obviously, only looking at the interstates in isolation and ignoring the rest of the road network would be kinda pointless, wouldn't it?
It showed here CHINA is the best in rail road as portrayed as compared to other country like Europe and USA or Japan. They are now leading in fast communication in transport other country are left behind example USA they waiting for private sector to intervened in transportation.
@@donkeydik2602 you miss out the point, china economy growth largely thank to HSR. give you an example you grow exoctic fruit, before HRS you sell to local and surrounding area also have to compete with hundred of farmer like yourself doing the same thing. now with HSR your fruit can sell to every part of the country at a higher profit that why china HSR phase 2 to expand it to 70,000km from current 40,000 connect every city has a population of 500k and above If their HSR fail they would not plan to expanding it.
3:20 this is a very misleading mistake. In fact, yes you first have the massive expanses of these high speed stations and some take a lot of time to navigate and walk walk walk before you get to the platform and they absolutely do have airport-like security., luggage x-rays, bag examinations, wands, the metal detectors etc.
thanks for sharing the full story of china’s high speed rail, because most other videos don’t share the downsides of it. i really still hope we implement wayy more high speed rail or at least reliable and comfortable rail in the U.S.
I would say this video focused too much on the downsides. The reality is, China treated it as a public service, as long as it can be self-sufficient it will be considered as success. That is also why the tickets are so cheap, only about half to 3/4 to similar service in Japan or Europe. Given everything is privately owned and can be lobbied against in the U.S. It really not possiable without culture change or something like 1970's oil crisis. Even the world-famous Japan's Shinkansen was built when Japanese rail is still state owned. Yes, it is now privately owned, profitable and actively expanding, but that project was seen as "a waste of money" back in 1970s. Their expansion speed is not where near the Chinese.
@@AaronShenghao How on earth can you conclude that Japan's HSR is profitable, when the Shinkansen generated 300 billion dollars in debts which have never been paid off? The reason why Japan privatised its state owned railway company was due to the debts, the state simply could not afford to have this railway company anymore...
@@fine2502 economics and purpose . For example, we went to the middle east because if we didn't, our biggest trade partners in Europe and China would have been screwed. Saved probably a few trillion there. Its not about pure Economics but when a HSR line goes to an EMPTY city...yeah...thats a huge waste.
@@simonjaz1279 it encourages tourism which over time builds up traffic. It is a tool that encourages economic growth by making areas more well connected than before. It's the indirect effects that make the economic returns well worth it
@@Elfangorlanzhou ok. When its connected to empty cities that have 0 people or connected to distant villages with next to nothing to go to see or even have the legality to visit what then? What happens when (like the rest of your infrastructure) you don't put in the money to maintain it. And finally, what happens when your average ridership is less than 2 rides a year per person?... Its not a well implemented or thought out system and the current debt shows.
The maintenance costs are gonna be a bear. It’s incredibly impressive, but I’m afraid the hyper focus on passenger high speed rail could become a detriment to the transportation on the whole long term.
@@williambrasky3891 look up the cost it not that hard. Also highways usually get half lazily repaired at least the hsr they are basically mandated to use the money to repair since that really their only income. also there tolerance levels don't just only affect hsr it affects highways too.
@@angelmendez2211 Yea, I don’t know what you are talking about or to whom. HSR infrastructure needs to be maintained at a level to maintain safety. On a per passenger basis, it’s absolutely cheaper than an interstate, but no one said it wasn’t. You brought up highways. That wasn’t the point. It’s a false dichotomy. The point was that HSR is the most expensive, least flexible type of rail. Chinas network is impressive, but at what cost? A more balanced approach would have likely provided greater practical benefit to more people. That imbalance will only grow as time moves on.
People outside of China concerning about China's environmental concern just make me laugh, Its their country just let them do whatever the countries want.
The Chinese Government doesn't understand that they should build tiny one-lane tunnels filled with EV taxis going 25 mph. Hopefully Elon can keep that secret so US can stay ahead of China.
Imagine that. The government providing social services for their people. The horror.
Which major economy doesn't provide social services for their people ?
@@regophil The US for one
@@asdf3568 Mate, I think you forgot something; schools, roads, medicare, airports, parks, stadiums, train tracks, etc
@@regophil The U.S.A :P
@@kahsjdkahddf1258 yes, but there are so many people who believes the government should not. There is this ideological problem: government is always inefficient, it is always better to have private companies do everything.
It's NOT important for the HSR or any other railnetwork in China to be profitable because that's NOT it's main goal.
The main goal is infrastructure improvement, to make it easy for people and business to travel.
Btw the HSR in China is extremely good. Spacious, clean, fast, frequent and reliable with rather cheap tickets.
Every time I have to take the train in the Netherlands I'm encountering exactly the OPPOSITE of the chinese HSR trains.
Infrastructure improvement? More like pumping up those GDP figures.
@@advancetotabletop5328 who ares what it’s for. Loved the HSR when I went to China.
for west a company must earn profits, for China maybe we lost some money on hsr, but we earn more money on business, travel, industrial etc. So take it as whole to evaluate, the society is profitable. This is our strength by the political system you west never know and couldn't do it. Stay jealous if you live in a capitalism society.
@@evergreenhills Lmao typical ccp chinese with always being inferior against the West..
@@evergreenhills is poor westerners are happy without that
900B is about 1 year's worth of the US defense budget. It is also less than 1/31 of the US gov't debt or 1/72 of US total all sector debt. So don't sweat it for China's HSR. It moves over a billion people around with ease and comfort.
Wrong, not just rail lines, airports, airlines, luxury apartments, regular apartments, and skyscrapers that are half empty or losing money.See,
China was adept at posting fake data (GDP) and images. They have a smaller population than reported.
Real estate ponzi scams caused China's debt to reach 55 trillion dollars.
In addition, China is experiencing another pandemic right now.
What you don't get is China doing things without the ratification of that process, i.e. without thinking it through and doing the research.
China would rather make travelling affordable and efficient, investing in the long term
Think how many cars are removed from the roads and the pollution and costs reduced compared to America
@@0xBasedChang China generates far more INDUSTRIAL pollution than any other country so wake up!
You must be a chinaman....
dont forget how much the amount of US spend on war on terror in afganistan and middle east, and also the most recent ukraine war. Those budget probably more than the budget of building high speed rial in cina
882 billion investment on infrastructure is bad investment and bad for environment? Is 800 billion on military spending a good investment and good for the environment?
China continues to shrink its availability of clean soils and water way faster than any improvements in agricultural productivity; they're already a huge net importer of food and only becoming more dependent on sources outside their territory. Meanwhile American military bases ironically make up considerable amounts of protected natural reservations.
882 billion debt for 1.4 billion people. 550 dollar per capita. Worth to owe. Ha ha
800 billion PER YEAR in US military spending...
Yes its bad considering their people can't use it. The american military invests more than anyone else in the world for green technology so id say its good.😊
$882 billion the debt accumulated over 15 years. It is not the investment. The investment is higher.
$800 billion is only 1 year's expenditure on the military.
I have taken the Chinese rail network between Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Nanning a few times. I didn't experience any of the negatives you mentioned in this video. Much of the route was elevated on a trestle allowing life to continue normally under the trestles. This is excellent for communities and animal migration. The train did not seem noisy either. From a customer experience point of view, the station experience was smooth and large enough to meet the volume of users. The subway / metro systems had stops in the long distance high-speed train stations. The trains were very clean and food service was offered. The trains had personnel on board to assist the passengers. I suggest that you make a trip to China and spend a week riding their trains. They may not be perfect for everyone, but are successful at providing low cost mobility for the world's largest country.
The problems are not about the trip on the train, the problems are the process of build the rail.
As a passenger, you'll never experience the building process of the rails.
@@samhuangsanjia No matter how travelers travel, it will ultimately have an impact on the environment. You can't criticize a transportation construction project because of the pandemic.
This videois full of salty, which is very cringe.
White monkey?
@@samhuangsanjia LOL, everybody can see the high speed train system in China is built quickly and efficiently, is it 10 times faster than building any train system in the US?
Agree. It was a wonderful experience.
Their system is amazing, don't talk down on it unless you understand it.
amazing for sure, but he pointed out some valid drawbacks
@@EnjoyFirefighting
To be honest all these haters against the video are people who compare US or other non rail based countries.
The best comparison can be made with countries like Japan and France, both of them being a highly developed HSR based country.
And me personally who regularly used all three mentioned, I must say China had the worst experience overall.
It’s not an entire failure, but the drawbacks and differences from TVG and Shinkansen are very clear and easy to spot, making it very outstanding for me negatively and overall inconvenient.
@@HappyGM-R Doubt that you ever ride HSR in France.
@@HappyGM-R The Shinkansen platforms are shared by multiple trains at very frequent intervals, if you don't pay attention, you could get on the wrong train very easily. On the other hand, there is no way you can get on the wrong train in the Chinese system because every train has a dedicated boarding gate, if you go to the wrong gate, you will be denied boarding. How could you say that the Chinese system is the worst among the three?
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like the video said. This video is full of sour grapes.
800billion dollars with HSR covered whole country is definitely worth it.
Building it once is only fraction of total cost though - maintenance adds at least as much over prolonged period of time. Question is can all lines really be maintained. I believe lines between Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou will do well but others may struggle. Problem with high speed is that it is simply more expensive way to travel than a slower train and typically majority of population would rather save money and go on slower train because they just don't have money to afford the more expensive fast train. Thus less ridership on fast trains thus difficulty to sustain and maintain it over prolonged period of time.
Did they let you decide?😂
@@sk-sm9sh China doesn't care about lines loosing money. Its all state owned. They can foot the bill. All they care about is economic development
@@sk-sm9sh still not a complete disaster. If you have to eventually stop the HSR service, slow trains can run on the same tracks, no? It's not like you have to rip out the tracks and rebuild them for slow speed.
Given that the country doesn't already have (enough) rail tracks, should they build HSR or slow-train tracks?
It's a different question if the country already has rail, or has recently already upgraded its tracks, but to a speed just below HSR, should it spend more money to upgrade them to HSR?
Which is probably why Singapore will never get HSR anytime soon. Malaysia has only recently completed half of its multi-decade long program to upgrade its rail tracks, but the projected started 30-40 years ago, before anyone thought of HSR. So the new tracks, whilst significantly faster than the old ones, is not quite HSR speed.
If you are already building out new tracks, should they be HSR or not if it costs 20-50% more? Or you cheap out even more snd build crappy tracks that only support up to 60kmh, but it costs 10-20% less? Each country will have to decide for itself, weighing the unique cost-benefits it faces that will be different.
@@sk-sm9sh but the total debt is only 800 billion for about 15 -20 years, it is worth enough for China, USA spend same money in military every year
Better than spending trillions in wars...
As a person who has used their HSR before I can say that it was fantastic. Super smooth, comfortable, and fast.
That’s good to know! Would be cool to ride it one day, but as an American it’s not the best time to visit…
@@infrachannel Im American too but yeah I think I got lucky with the timing. It was back in 2017 with my college. We said we were there for study though and not vacation
@@infrachannel 😂 you should do more negative comments about china, this is literally not enough for your happiness
@@weizhang2834 OK, little pink. Go ride a cancelled HSR line.
Really, China is pretty safe over all. The main risk is getting hurt in a traffic accident as the traffic there is crazy. For crime, safer than the USA for sure, but less than Japan.
wow China got 25,000 miles of high speed rail for what the US military spends in 1 year. where can i get that deal?
I've used boats, trains and planes in China. The highspeed rail network is by far the best network I've been in. And I'm saying that as a Dutch citizen.
Meanwhile over in America we can't stop with the disastrous derailments of our freight and passenger trains. Heck we just had a chemical spill disaster in the past week.
Run by a private company. Private sector is NOT always better than the government.
Nationalize the railway!!!
Americans have passenger trains worth using? Yeah NOPE LOL 😂 FUNNY 😄
@@thetrainguy1 mov3 to china...you'll have it!!
@@themoviedealers lol the government was quick to blame them because it would affect US politics... don't always trust the news buddy
what was the disaster exactly?
Racist westerners losing face
american disaster
The Americans are too embarrassed to see the success of the Chinese HSR system.
Still, Far Better than 2 Trillion USD wasted in Afghanistan, in return you get 3500 Dead American Soldiers in Body Bags....😂😂😂😂😂
All this rails and trains need to be maintained at a high standard, that cost a loot of money, if its not done the network will start to decay and become unsafe. Where will they get the money to mantain the network?
As an Indian, CHR is something astonishing achieved by their govt. Infrastructure boosts economy.
India will be have a high speed railway by 2025 Vance Bharat 3 coming baby
in a country like yours with a rapidly growing population still needing to add infrastructure yes but in China no for those smae reasons IMO.
Just curious if there are new updates on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR.
@@ianhomerpura8937fully operational by 2026 600km in 5 yrs with tech transfer thanks to japan
and I hope India will have a similar network soon.
Just returned from China, spent 15 days, travelled for more than 5000 miles via HSR in China .. it is a world class train, speed was touching 380km/hr no vibration, management & stations were top notch….
As indonesian citizen and also a Railfan that life close enough to the upcoming HSR Line connecting Capital city and Bandung , iam very exited to be riding the Fuxing CR400AF train with speed up to 350kph.. The track laying is now halfway to completed.. And the High Speed railway will be open next July..
Tinggal di perpanjang sampai Surabaya. Jakarta Surabaya 3 jam . Langsung geleng geleng para orang tua zaman dulu.
@@carkawalakhatulistiwa ... asal harganya lbh terjangkau drpd pesawat.
Kukira hanya untuk Jawa dan Sumatra yang ramai penumpang. Kalau pulau2 lain nanti tak banyak penumpang.
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like it said in the video. This video is full of saltiness and sour grapes.
HSR hny proyek pamer Jkw.. Indonesia ga perlu HSR, yg lbh berguna adlh transportasi publik di berbagai kota bsr.. Brp x org pergi keluar kota, bandingkan pergi kerja & belanja..
Proyek spt ini ga berguna jk proyek jalan antar kota & KA biasa msh minim diluar pulau Jawa.. Tp Jkw tau org Indo buta nasionalismenya, proyek HSR sm dgn proyek bodong Esemka, akan membuat dirinya sangat terkenal tanpa perlu betul2 membereskan masalah inti..
I think the key is not needing to make a profit or caring if anyone ever rides them.
You can be sure companies that operate and build it take very healthy profits. It's bank of china that is covering it basically with people's savings that they hold in chinese banks. If they're unable to pay back we're talking collapse of financial system and country turning into chaos as people start rioting due to inability to take out their savings out of bank.
What could possibly go wrong, right? :D
True communism. Elimination of money. People are allowed to work or not work at anything that is fulfilling and never has to worry about necessities of life which are provided by the communal society. Possessions and possessiveness become obsolete because each person is entitled to the same.
@@advancetotabletop5328 it’s public transit. It’s job isn’t to make money
An American dude making an analysis about public investment, train infrastructure, and China is the royal combo of stupidity! Keep up on your amazing investigation!
lol yes!
The Chinese trains allow extremely poor and isolated people to access jobs that pull them up into the middle class and beyond.
About the ticket loss issue, the fact is you don't even need a ticket, scanning your ID card will validate your ticket admission when entering the train station if the ticket was bought online, how could you lose your ticket?
This guy is deliberately misleading.
当傻B表演时，你应该赞同他，对对对。怎么能指出他来呢🤣🤣
@@xiawilly8902 I don't even understand how America is able to do this... they've managed to galvanise seemingly civilian americans to propagate anti China misinformation all fueling the jingoistic rhetoric of the govt...
Its actually amazing if it wasn't so dangerous
You need to print the ticket before you take the train (even the ticket was bought online) , then there are still some possibilities to lose the ticket.
@@xiawilly8902 So you're saying that the yantai nanshan university is lying?
There is an misunderstanding about the ticketing system on your video. You don’t actually need to have a ticket to board the train as when you bought it you gave your ID number, therefore you just need your ID to board a train after you’ve paid for your journey.
within 12306 app you also get I QR code for scanning
You can board the plane with your ID card or phone QR code, and you don't need to print the ticket.
Today April 16, another train derailment in US. And they are lecturing China and entangling China.
I have traveled on the CRH (Shanghai to Nanjing). Very enjoyable. Wish the U.S. would add some competition for the airline industry. Airlines: fees, cancelations, connections and cramped. Enough said.
The net annual benefit of the high-speed rail to the Chinese economy is approximately $378 billion. A 2019 World Bank study estimated the rate of economic return of China's high-speed rail network to be at 8 percent.
The study also noted a range of benefits which included shortened travel times, improved safety and better facilitation of tourism, labor and mobility, as well as reducing highway congestion, accidents and greenhouse emissions.
If only we could have such a DISASTER in the US.
I dont believe this at all. Not even a little bit.
@@simonjaz1279 better mobility brings faster connections and transactions. Money flows faster.
@@ianhomerpura8937 well when most of the nation doesn't use that system, I dont think it actually does what this guy thinks it does
@@simonjaz1279 do you have any statistics about that in particular?
@@ianhomerpura8937 i mean you just got to see where the rail is. Some of the lines go to those really cool ghost cities with 0 people. I would imagine the same people use the lines over and over and are probably in the big cities. The hsr moved 1.9 BILLION people last year yet there are 1.4 BILLION citizens living in china...you are telling me they don't even average 2 rides per person there? That tells me probably a large portion to even a majority of the Chinese populace doesn't use this rail.
Contradictory statements that the train stations are over crowded and lack of enthusiasm from the Chinese to travel on high speed trains.
China can afford to invest 800 billion dollars in its high speed train network, therefore no serious concerns there as it also brings about economical developments and benefits for the country as a whole.
As far as environmental damage and pollution, people should be more concerned with the pollutions caused by millions and millions of ice vehicles than high speed train. No carbon emission from high speed trains as compared to highly polluting millions and millions of ice vehicles running all around the world.
Human Rights violations from high speed train investments?
Who's complaining?
Do people in China or war torn countries such Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc ever complain about high speed train constructions in China?
If western countries dislike modern developments that could bring about pollution and environmental damage, they should then revert back to the stone age where there's no modernity and absolutely no pollutions and environmental damage.
American complaining about enviromental issues? When have they ever cared about the environment.
Better than the Indians like you🤭
welcome to the CIA agitpropganda spread pn youtube its everywhere
I am glad that the viewers in the comments section are much more knowledgeable than you.
Sigh, maybe like 3 of them. But most are uneducated people who don't understand simply logistics and economics.
This video is just 7 minutes of jealousy
Another thing to note regarding Chinese HSR vs flight is that Chinese airspace is incredibly tightly controlled compared to other parts of the world. It's sorta analagous to how US passenger rail is shitty because of freight primacy, though there's not a 1 to 1 comparison to be made there.
That part is overplayed by, lol, UA-camrs, considering how big the entire industry as it is still expanding is and how many passengers travel by air. But hey, listen to some Murican UA-camrs whose best skill is repeating the same cliché he saw on the “internet”. Wow 🤩
If you where to have china's hsr in Europe the dominance of their cheap flight industry would be dead
I frequently use the HSR, however I travel Business class. There are 3 classes on the train, Second, First and Business. Business is more expensive but much nicer. I don’t mind travelling 1-3 hours after that it becomes counter productive. For instance I live in South of China, Zheijang region. If I want to travel to Beijing the minimum time is about 9 hours and would have to take a day from work to achieve that. It takes abut 3 hrs flying, same cost.To travel business class return by air costs little more. I could fly and return the same day. By HSR realistically i would be looking at 2 days there and back. You pay your money and take your choice.
Americans never consider environmental issues when they wage wars. China, which wants to build high-speed rail, considers environmental concerns.
Also what is 'lackluster passenger revenue"? I bet you're not talking about 'lackluster revenue' from building interstate highways and freeways to 'solve traffic'?
Ridership is excellent on most lines, some of which are already running at capacity and need to be duplicated. I suggest to do some better research next time. Perhaps watch Railways Explained video on that where they did some actual research and didn't just copy/paste some sensationalist article headlines.
There is no 'lacklustre' revenue from highways and freeways, as these are all funded by road taxes, which essentially are user fees. The costs of HSR are usually not covered by user fees, but require a lot of taxpayers funding.
@@91Durktheturk Roads are usually not covered by user fees and are funded by taxpayer, especially in the US, but also most other countries. Your point is?
@@DS.J I just pointed out to you that roads are fully funded by user fees.... In fact, the revenues coming from road taxes exceed the costs of the road network. In the USA, transit is actually partially funded by road user fees coming through road tax receipts.
@@91Durktheturk I just pointed out that this is factually incorrect because road fees do not cover investment and maintenance costs virtually anywhere. Roads are funded from general pool of taxpayer money and road fees and fuel duties only cover small part of that.
@@DS.J This is incorrect. The USA interstate highways that you referred to are fully funded by user fees, in terms of construction, maintenance and operation. And this is the case across Europe as well, with tax revenues collected through road related taxes far exceeding road related expenditures.
Thailand will have their first phase of their northeastern high speed route open in few years time using Chinese CR300 AF trains.
Honestly can't wait for it as we can't build enough roads to serve the amount of new cars on the road every year its getting so ridiculously stressful now that even when I have driving license I won't drive when its necessary to do so.
Before that I wished to travel to from Laos to Kunming, Yunnan with Laos High Speed rail medium speed train looks like It will be a very popular route in the future for Northen Laos-Southern Yunnan tourism.
Thailand had rail system back when Chinese are still using dirt roads. Its very sad that the SRT wasn't more well managed when you consider Thailand was very early in the railroad game and fell behind. I keep up with the projects on SRT routes and high speed rail routes, I think its good for Thailand to build both systems up, so that way even people that can't afford a high speed rail ticket can still use an upgraded SRT route.
American students are in more debt than this, and all they have to show for it are worthless degrees in Sociology. I would much rather have this. As incomes rise, these resources will get more utilized and the costs can be recovered
When China start a project, the profit is not the first thing that government considers, it’s always the long term benefits for lifting ppl’s life quality, China is not asking any country to copy it, it just want to develop as it’s own way which suits the country the most.
Goal doesn’t need to be direct profitability. The economic benefits it brings probably overweight the cost anyway.
Probably not
I also had the chance to try the Chinese HSR. From Shanghai to Hefei and on three other routes. Honestly speaking, the railway stations are quite overcrowded, but still safe. Very comfortable seats, no noise throughout the journey.
You felt the stations overcrowded because you probably went to the stations too early. Local people go to the station just a few minutes before departure. They probably couldn't feel or care about the crowdedness.
1.4billion population…
well ,i work in shanghai and my hometwon is hefei ,i think there are not very many people in normal days .Bur it is a disaster in holidays.
@@rickyshen2764especially during Chunyun
Infrastructure is never profitable. Highways and airports in the US are also highly subsidised by the government.
This video (subsidised by the US government?) sounds more like US frustration because the US itself is unable to realize high rail.
So roads are more eco friendly than railways? What are you smoking?
I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like you mention in the video. Could it be that you are so jealous of China's high speed rail that pushes you to paint China so bad? LOL
Typical American logic: calling someone a disaster when you don’t have one🤣
I do have questions about the quote at 4:05.
To buy a train ticket in China, you need to use an Chinese ID or passport (to prevent scalping during the Chinese New Year).
So you can use your Chinese ID to get on the train without even get a paper ticket... It's not possiable to even lose your ticket, because there is no ticket to lose (Unless you lost your ID). If you want a paper copy (for tax reasons or souvenir or peace of mind), you can print out the ticket from an automated machine, just like the lady did at 4:13. (Note: You still have to present your ID when passing initial security check, making sure the name on ticket and ID match. Using just your ID is just more convenient)
I am not sure how it works if you are a foreigner and purchased a ticker using Passport, but I assume they can look up the ticket information at the ticking counter.
So yeah that report seems at minimum in accurate. I read the journal myself and there is no citation on the paragraph about losing ticket. So it can be whoever wrote the report just saying personal experience? Or maybe something they heard of? This question probably only the further of that paper knows.
It is also possiable that, given the paper was written in 2018, and the "Scan your ID as your ticket" only introduced after that paper published.
in the UK, our tickets are all available on mobile with QR codes to scan at gates outside the platform,
and in london, any card allows tap-on tap-off usage on every mode of transit apart from taxis.
China still uses IDs as the link to the ticket. Foreigners generally have to go through the staffed gate on the very side of the boarding lines because they have to manually input your name.
@@doujinflip If your name is within 20 something characters or so you can scan the passport. I have a friend who always has to go through that channel since they cant input their name fully on the app since it wont accept all the required characters. The speed for both channels is about the same though.
@@doujinflip It can be processed by the automated machine, even Chinese people can have alternative ways of identification.
@@KingFinnch in the UK people don't have IDs.
Not sure how anyone can criticize China's debt when America's debt levels are shocking
Not to the sophisticated financiers of the world. They still buy every US Treasury bond that's offered because it's the most sure form of currency in the world.
There isn't an economy anywhere that can compare to the US economy in size, diversity, and the revenue it generates which is more than enough to support its debt obligations. It may be the leader for all countries which want to avoid the predicted coming recession. If the US ever defaults on a payment obligation, it won't be because of an inability to pay (like what China might do after so many authorized Real Estate defaults), it's be only because some Congressional politicians made it impossible to pay.
As an Indian i don't see any negatives in Chinese railway considering the fact we still have broken trains running from idk maybe decades
The long term benefits will be worth trillions.
Sad part is that we spend $800 billion a year on the military and have nothing to show for it. Wish we spent that much every year to build new trains, subway systems, and trams so that in 10 years we didn't a car to get around.
"Debt" is the least of concerns. One government agency owes money to another government agency. This is just a number that doesn't affect anything. The video seems soaked with prejudice and false narratives that have been circulating in the media from the initial phases of construction back in early 2010s. Chinese HSR is amazing and completely transformed the way people travel in the country.
As income of Chinese people rise I expect all the lines to get profitable
@@polaris1985 MAny lines will not be profitable. But they are not profitable anywhere with only some exceptions. Which is why it is quite outrageous when 'critics' keep mentioning this. Why is noone discussing 'profitability' of new expressways or regular roadways? Railways generate incredibly important value and benefits to the economy which has transformed China and will transform India in the future if similar systįem gets built there.
What false narratives are you referring to?
@@DrewJenks76 Primarily 'debt' and the assumptions that railways have to be 'profitable' from the accointing point of view.
Making profit through ticket sales is not sustainable, China's main goal is efficient external economic activities(external taxes) by using high-speed railway network
As an Indonesian myself I never tried Chinese HSR before but I tried Shinkansen in Japan several times. And yes I prefer railway like this than plane, faster, just come to station, buy ticket on the spot and just board to the car itself and enjoy the ride. no need to book, running on airport terminal, troublesome security checking.
In China, you have to go through security checks even you take the subway, but the process is very fast.
Large airports can be up to 1 hour from the city. Of course you want to arrive early, for the security line, and another hour at the other end. That's 3 hours already. Planes start off with this deficit. HSR stations can be in the middle of the city, and would be connected to public transport like LRT.
Agree.
When Europe colonized Africa there were no human and environmental rights😢😢 but when china pulls itself out of poverty everything is a disaster
I can only speak for the trips I’ve made between Beijing and Shanghai.
-It is true the customer services are not up to western standards, the ticketing example is really the most patent as you buy you ticket online but you still need to go to a both to actually get a physical ticket… that’s a slow and cumbersome process. The train stations are not more crowed that Paris Gare du Nord for those who know it and to be honest it is far cleaner than any train stations in Europe. You also have tight security in the stations too but it’s still faster than in an airport.
- from a passenger point of view the comfort of Chinese HST are well above Europeans ones, I cannot speak for Japan trains. You have 3 classes 2nd, First and Business, the prices are lower than in France even when you buy last minute with in Business a real service (food and incredible seating) if you can afford it.
- The train itself is faster at its cruising speed than in EU, most of the time it’s 340kph, with like you mentioned in your video complete disregard for the inhabitants of city close to the railways, the trains passing at full speed no matter the noise and shockwaves…
- The train station being a little on the outskirts of the cities isn’t always an issue as you have public transportation close by to.
You should do the same kind of video for the EU high speed rails networks which is a mess and the open market forced the concurrence to have access to the roads (have their own trains and sells tickets bypassing the state owned companies) will bring chaos and maybe better service…
I ridden the Japanese Shinkansen and I can tell you that it is similar. Some UA-cam video made by Japanese rail fans (who went to China to ride the trains) also agreed on that. Both can stand a coin on the side when cursing.
Its definitely much better than the Swedish X2000... not only show at 180km/h, the ride is pretty bad on the tracks... I felt a bit sick multiple times, despite only throw up once on a plane and never on a car. No wonder why the Chinese chose to build a entirely new HST system. (Chinese tried Swedish X2000 train on their existing net work back in the early 2000's. called "Xin Shi Su" translated to "New Speed")
As for sound, I don't think its a particularly big problem, the Japanese also ran their trains at 300 km/h+ even with stricter environmental standards. (I recall it's 70 or 80dbs at 10m away from tracks). Their biggest problem is try go beyond 300+ when enter/exiting tunnels (On the JR East lines, they are limited to 270-300 at some segments because of this) as well as limited curvature (JR limited to 275km/h due to curvature). Right now, JR East have an experimental trains aim to allow 340-360km/h operating speed though tunnels (the train is called "ALFA-X"). This is also why JR Ease have those radical train nose design to reduce shockwave from tunnels.
The Chinese FuXin trains probably run louder, I recall it is 10 dBs louder than Japanese offering so its possibly 80-90 dBs, most of Chinese trains don't have to deal with tunnels with house near the tunnel entrance/exit. Its defiantly below 90 dBs because I recall I have read a paper regarding the noise on previous CRH380A trains.
Both Chines and Japanese trains are comparable to living near an busy street in a city during rush hour (80dbs+) or near an airport. (A jet engine can be ~120 dBs at idle, louder during take off and landing).
Thanks for the additional information, I did appreciate it. I’d just say it’d be a pure nightmare to live close to a French TGV railroad if the trains were to go full speed… not at a jet taking off but way too loud for any human wanting some peace at home !
Chinese HSR ticket system is optimized for their own citizens. You could get in without ticket through face recognition. If you are foreigner, sorry.
I only rider Japanese Shinkansen between Tokyo and Kyoto. Its experience is not as good. It has lots of sharp turns and train slowly swings back and forth. It is hard for me to stare laptop and work on train. I think this might be due to old system. Their new system might be better.
well, i just can call out for the german "high speed trains", who often aren't that "high speed"... even specific tracks, who are designed for those trains (the ICE) are often just run on 250km/h - and even the "oldest" ICE runs with 280km/h, while the newest is the slowest (comparision: ICE1: 280km/h, ICE2 is same, ICE3: up to 330km/h (only at one trackpoint!) and ICE4 as the new Velaro: 250km/h. it's a shame for the germans, to have invented high speed trains in europe (in 1903 - with 200km/h; and 1930-1939 with a another train, who got up to 230km/h - before the japanese came 1962 up with a "doctor yellow" and up to 270km/h). why are they so slow? that's easy explained - they just a a few track pieces just for them, all other tracks are for "all" trains - cargo, suburban etc, and that's why german trains can't really being called "high speed" (even when "high speed trains means: faster than 190km/h or 119mp/h), 'cause the often need to drive behind other trains, what limited they'r speed. yes, we germans don't had a dedicated high-speed rail network...
Rail is the second military and has NOTHING to do with profit, just like army and police. The situation in Ukraine has shown that aeroplanes are now useless but railroad works even in war. No single aeroplane is flying in Ukraine but the highest people in the world are arriving there by train as do the weapons provided by lend and lease, being 90 percent on time at any time. Trains can 1030km/h but aeroplanes only 850km/h. Trains can go through snowstorms and rainstorms and mild earthquakes while aeroplanes can't fly in other than full sunshine conditions which cannot exist as there is rain of over 500mm in summer for a whole month. Train drivers are OFFICERS with UNIFORM and RANK and INSIGNIA and march and salute and follow written orders which are printed out every day and not some private company guys wearing suits. Semicon and software developers , that is ,those who matter and earn the bread for the rest of the country, go to and from work everyday up to 500km in such trains.
$900 billion dollar debt is government debt which they can easily rightoff in 2 years with $500 billion trade surplus they recieve each year.
I live in Canada and we don't have two meters of high speed rail. One of the only industrialized countries in the world. While we are sparse in population, there is a region in Ontario and Quebec that could easily sustain it.
Maybe or mostly likely not. There are actually only a couple HSR lines in the world that actually break even. Every other line loses money, most enormously.
@@tonysu8860 Roads and freeways also loose money, enormously.
same for australia, study after study on feasibility but nothing ever gets built, Sydney to melbourne is in the top 5 busiest air routes in the world so a fast train would do very well but there is no political will to do it.
Totally agree. I travelled in Via Rail from Toronto to Ottawa. The ride was slow, noisy, and bumpy. I didn't really enjoy the ride. I traveled in many high speed trains to many cities while travelling in China. The high speed trains in China are super. I don't have anything negative about China high speed train like it said in the video.
Ahh another video that talks "it's a disaster" while the comment section says "no, it's actually good"
yes I think the HSR has impact on the environment, however compared to other countries that mainly dependant on roads and jets.. these HSR is more efficient and should have less emissions compared to cars and jet with the same amount of people they able to move. There will always be risk on environment where infrastructure being built whatever mode of transport is
worth mentioning China is able to build their HSR connectivity with their cities metro system making it more efficient
i was saying the exact same thing. high speed rail is by far the most efficient form of travel and this guy is talking about environmental impact.
Airplane had no pollutions. Because US had Boeing. 😂
It's better to invest $800 billion in HSR than $1 trillion in a useless war.
Infrastructure in a country is necessary and must. It is your tax money in the working. China has successfully developed and deployed the world longest high speed rail net work to benefit her 1.4 billion citizens. United States spends $2 trillion US dollars in Iraq wars along, $840 billions every year in defense contractors benefit, spends $0 dollar for the benefit of transportation of her citizens. Any questions?
Yes. Where are you getting these numbers from because 0$ invested in Infrastructure isn't true. We literally are spending 2 trillion on it right now...
No matter what it cost, it is money well spent... the US by comparison prints $trillions that at the end of the day makes rich people even richer & has little to show for it.
High speed rail doesn't have to be profitable, at least initially. It should be a strong facilitator for economic growth. I'm interested in how China will eventually make them profitable, perhaps less regulation and generating revenue from areas near stations/HSR tracks?
It's not generating much economic activity unfortunately. Passengers and mail don't actually pay that much, especially since most Chinese are very price sensitive and HSR competes with buses and slow trains as well.
If the lines also moved more profitable containers and bulk cargo it'd be a different story.
The problem is the Chinese high speed rail network is that it can’t handle freight trains…
@@doujinflip What are you talking abou? The HSR nearly killed the domestic flying industry. regions connected through highspeed rail get a 20% tourism boost
@@doujinflip This is not true at all. The railway lets the big cities expand, which offloads the city centers and boosts smaller surrounding cities.
It almost never works out that way. It is remarkable how few megaprojects actually meet expectations. Even in dense Europe almost every HSR system is not profitable in addition to providing addition benefit to justify the cost.
As a TGV regular, I can say that HSR is sooo usefull, it is even shorter than taking a car. Yet trains are overcrowded which is making tickets more and more expensive. So the problem here is the opposit to the Chinese one. Yet the benefits are still worth it to my mind. Because It is still a way for me to go back to my familly in a way that is not dooming the atmosphere and that is less expensive than highways.
You need to rid of this idiotic chinese new year thing - kinda same thing like for us on xmas - where nobody takes any holiday except one week when everyone wants to back. Festive holidays is the dumbest thing that our civilizations ever created. Basically you get half empty trains for whole year and then on one week you don't get enough trains for everyone who wants to travel - just how stupid is that?
In contrast, for United State, huge investment in military weapons are much better benefits to the people in the US despite poor high speed rail network across the country.
Is yours a joke post? I hope so!
Misdirection. Irrelevant comment.
UNITED STATES OF WAR
Public Infrastructure is not meant to be profitable. It's like what Costco does with their hotdogs and what not. The merchandise is the goal. In Chinas case it's being able to allow the public to flow in order to have a dynamic work environment.
OMG A DISASTER!!! I've taken their high speed trains many times over the years, it was clean, smooth, and fantastic. And when I came back to NYC, seeing the rats running on the platform, homeless people sleeping on the trains, looking at the sticky chairs.... yeah it was disaster.
Thank God China doesn't allow tourism in the areas that are not the upper 20%. Thats like saying you went in a 5 million dollar mansion in an area with shacks all around it but came back to a normal neighborhood and you were upset.
@@simonjaz1279 oh really, my wife is Chinese, I lived there for over 10 years and I have business there, I’ve literally been to over 30 Chinese cities if not more. It’s the arrogance like this that makes U.S. vulnerable in today’s world. It’s a fact that we’ve had modern transportation system almost 60 years before they do - NYC’s subway system is literally hundred years old, so it’s almost impossible to replace them with the type of trains and stations China has, you’d have to demolish NYC to do that. But do you wanna take that factor into consideration? No - you just wanna stay in your little shell and dreaming while they are working their ass off on catching up if not passing us already. You are right, 80% of their countries are poor, they are WAY WAY WAY behind us, you just keep thinking that. SMH
我坐了这么多次高铁，居然没没发现外国人说的这些问题，外国人太为我们着想了，谢谢你
绿水青山就是金山银山
都是坐家里想像中国的专家
You're kind of exaggerating how the numbers are a bad thing. You do know that even the Philippines has 252.5 Billion dollars and the country is still expected to continue spending for infrastracture. Japan has 9.8 Trillion dollar debt. It's the same as how the west perceived the plans of Japan when they decided to spend for highspeed railways. Infrastructure is essential for the economy to grow. Connecting the cities and providing good transportation for goods and manpower is the key to level the playing ground.
Video likely produced and narrated by someone who has never rode China's high speed rails (admits it at 3:28), or has an agenda. I crisscrossed the country by rail in 2014 and was awestruck at the speed (300kmp), affordability, and efficiency. But I guess, like another poster suggested, $800B on military spending per year is so much more smarter of a public expenditure than actually investing in transportation and infrastructure that actually benefits people and economic development. Glass houses.
A smaller country, Australia will spend *USD380 billions* for just one military item: NUCLEAR SUBMARINES
Need that to fight off a Chinese invasion, if you believe that.
Govt job is to serve the peoples
far less than what you lost in the Iraq war
It's not a disaster. It's just what you want to believe. Experiencing the trains and they are very high tech. 😊
If 1000 people use HSR instead of car or planes in one trip..calculate national savings in energy import bill..petrol etc,
it doesn’t need to make a profit. it’s a national infrastructure designed connect people together. it’s better connects their economy and cites together. the economic benefits are immeasurable/asset. i don’t think there is an impending disaster looming.
It connects "select" cities together, effectively making it extremely difficult for areas not connected/have a HSR station to grow.
well HSR is a business it need to make money. at least to have a plan to break even at some time
Mass rail that gets us away from paving for cars and flying is a net enviro gain no matter how you slice it.
yup. mass rail gest carry large load of people from one place to another is much better for the environment.
Even though environmental and human rights concerns are highly valuable aspects of any project that shouldn't be overlooked, especially in America, I'm still going to agree with the Chinese government in which the economic and environmental benefits bring forth much more prosperity for decades to come, and will far outweigh the risks associated with air and road travel. At the end of the day, trains are good, whether they be dedicated high speed routes or simply upgrading existing lines, any form of rail is much better than a plane, bus or car. Also, if you're going to cover Europe's HSR network, please don't forget Italo: the privately operated Italian high speed railway that offers the fastest operating speeds in all of Europe (187mph).
Agree with everything you've stated, especially about covering the Italo.
Italo isn't the fastest train in Europe! Its speed is the same as the freccia rossa, ICE or TGV, among the others (maybe they don't run at 300 km/h on the entire network). For example the TGVs can reach 320 km/h (200 mph) on the LGV est or LGV méditerranée, or the Spain's Renfe runs at 310 km/h (193 mph) on the madrid-barcelona HSR!
>
So you would favor eliminating all government regulations of trains in the United States? You might keep in mind that the United States built the most extensive rail network in the world pretty much without government regulation, other than subsidies.
The rail system started to get constipated right along with the extension of government regulation.
Do you suppose there is a connection?
@SeattlePioneer I wouldn't say eliminate railway regulations, since that leads to issues that the freight industry is facing with lack of safety investments, but I would suppose streamlining laws that make new passenger rail projects needlessly expensive or time consuming when compared to highways.
@@Pensyfan19
So the ridership is low (6:32) but facilities are generally overcrowded (3:50)? One of them is false
Not necessarily. It's the definition of what a bottleneck is. Although total potential capacity can be very high, it can be underutilized because of some kink that prevents full flow.
3:23 Chinese HSR has airport style security and queues. Any future hsr to china (ég from Laos) has to comply with the labyrinthian security measures.
Chinese HSR stations are often far from city centers, and cities have to catch up by building express subway connections to HSR.
China built good HSR that fulfilled demand, then continued building HSR to an overkill degree, in an effort to keep its construction sector busy. Don't copy the Chinese model. Copy Korea or maybe Spain for cost efficiency, copy Germany and France for integration with conventional rail and use of great preexisting stations, be like tw and copy Japan if your HSR will get earthquakes
I'd rather have that then the US model. Build neither.
@@KcarlMarXs yes, being a fool is always an option.
This is a really ignorant video. I've never had any of these problems. Also profit isnt the reason why you build public works infrastructure projects. The national highway network in the US is not profitable and is heavily subsidized. These projects are public investments to help improve the way of life for everyday people. Looking thru a solely capitalistic lens isnt the best way to have a strong infrastructure when national buidling
It is a national treasure! Eh e, it is much better than war debt.
>
Yes, China didn't have a lot of spending on wars in the 19th century. They had a lot of wars, and by and large they lost almost all of them. As a result, many countries carved out pieces of China to run. China was not a unified country and numerous different powers carved off pieces of China, and civil wars and warlords controlled much of the country.
Since the CCP came to power, they have spent immense sums on their military. They kicked out foreign powers, had only relatively minor wars which have kept foreign countries from occupying China. They have a unified country which is a prerequisite for high speed rail, isn't it?
If your country is dominated by warlords, civil wars and foreign occupation by several countries, high speed rail is going to have problems.
In short, you are naïve.
I'm no fan of the CCP, but your opposition to military power is foolish, considering the alternatives China's history illustrates.
u are too much baised against china, india .
if us is not doing it good doesn't mean everything is bad
1) about ridership: you can't just connect two places and assume riders will follow. There has to be a connection of some sorts before, and I'm not totally sure, everywhere china built that, there has been. They're skipping the middle step of slow growing demand.
2) about economics: who asks how economically feasible a road is? What's the cost to gain factor or a highway? how much income does a highway even produce? does the US even have a toll system for their freeways in place?... ahh nah, right, it's called a freeway for a reason. Anyways, the goal of infrastructure is not to be economically profitable.
3) about ecologics: again: is the disregarding of ecology of a railway worse than a street would have been? if yes and only then, these claims are viable in general. But I agree, this is not a free ticket for just building everywhere. A good balance has to be found, but it pisses me off so hard, that people think, just because we advocate for a thing, which is better than the current, this thing needs to be perfect in every way. The only to stop polluting nowerdays and live in perfect harmony with nature is to shoot yourself, and even then, the accumulated microplastics in your body would probably pollute the soil^^
The US has fully funded its freeway system through fuel taxation (which actually comes quite close to a toll system). In fact, the receipts for fuel taxes are far higher than the cost of building and maintaining the freeway system.
Connecting two places with no intermediate stops is not necessarily a good thing for effective transportation…
@@91Durktheturk Not completely. The superhighway Interstate highway system built in the 1955-80's was largely built with federal funds but once built is entirely maintained by the states and fuel tax fees. The US benefits enormously from this and a lot of decades long planning was involved including sinking "dark fiber" in the ground that eventually has been used as a primary backbone for high speed Internet today along with other communication services.
At least in California, expensive and deep studies are funded as part of its major roadway and freeway projects. I've seen plans that extend over 30 years and that sometimes creates a problem because the developing demographics aren't always consistent with what was envisioned 3 decades earlier... People communities sometimes live where businesses were supposed to develop and vice versa, leading to reverse flows of traffic and highways that don't work as designed. That's part of the Progressivism of California, hardly anything happens by accident or a sudden response to some event. Nearly everything that happens is built on efforts that started many Governorships and administrations before the current in office and current work is being done to support what might not happen until decades into the future.
It’s not meant to make profit
I also rode it. I think if you just to travel to Beijing Shanghai Xi’an and Chengdu then it should be fine. Compared with the experience in Amtrak Midwest, sometimes Chinese HSR has better sceneries. The ride is also smoother. I just haven’t made transfer yet.
What’s annoying is that sometimes people just to play the Chinese version of TikTok on the trains. You better bring a pair of earbud with you. The food is also expensive, at least compared with most of the places in China.
Amtrak Midwest isn’t the top spot for scenic views but instead northwest
In 1998 China did have a 220 kmh high speed train from Shenzhen to Guangzhou
this still seems extremely good
The first impressive major rail network that the Chinese built was the US railway, literally.
Atleast they have a high-speed railroad...
your video showed many negatives and one of them is that the stations are often crowded. Yet, a few frames later, you said the high speed rail system was low in ridership. Do you know that you are talking about?
哈哈哈，他说的是真的
HSR is basically a financial disaster everywhere. In fact, only two lines in the world actually make money, the Paris Lyon and the Tokyo Osaka line. The issue is that HSR works in a very small number of use cases, and governments then feel compelled to build many more of these lines. This has resulted in a lot of financial disasters. For instance, Japan has also bankrupted itself with HSR construction and has 300 billion dollars in long term debts, which have never been paid off. HSR in Spain is a disaster. In France it is a disaster and let's not get started about HS2 in the UK..... Essentially in any European country that has invested in HSR, ran out of money to maintain their existing railway network, and many rural lines had to be sacrificed to pay for HSR lines.
The only country who did it sort of sensibly in the beginning is Germany, as HSR lines were strategically build along important freight corridors, to ensure freight trains could use the line at night time. Many of these older HSR lines therefore start and/or end in freight yards or have easy connections with them (e.g., Hannover Wurzburg line and Mannheim Stuttgart line). Despite that, also in Germany, HSR is associated with skyrocketing costs.
Why should railways and especially HSR have to make a (direct) profit? Using this metric, the Interstate network is a "financial disaster" too.
It's a public service, and the profits are indirect; it's all about national economy.
@@stephanweinberger The Interstate network is not a 'financial disaster' as the costs of building and maintaining it are fully funded through gas taxes. In fact, any roadsystem is fully funded through car usage related taxation receipts. In fact, often the tax receipts are two or three times as high as the actual costs of maintaining the road system. So no, you cannot make such a claim.
Railways and HSR should make a profit yes, otherwise they are not playing a useful role in the economy and in the transportation of people. There maybe a few arguments whereby railways have positive externalities, such that their profitability is a bit less important, e.g., air quality, congestion reduction, transport of very high volumes of people and so on, but that's it (and, I'd argue that most commuter railways in the Europe ctually do offer relatively high positive externalities and thus have a good reason for existence). The same cannot be said for HSR. HSR is used by a fraction of the population in Europe, often peole on very high incomes. It is also very bad for the environment destroys precious landscapes and needs lots and lots of money to operate. Now, why do the poor through their taxes need to pay for a very expensive train that is only used by the rich?
@@91Durktheturk Even if that's true (I have my doubts; and I know that this statement is not true for my home country, where fuel is more than twice as expensive compared to the US - mainly because of taxes - and we even have a general motorway toll): what's the difference in roads being financed by taxes vs. and rail being financed by taxes.
Infrastructure is a public service, it benefits the economy as a whole.
@@stephanweinberger The difference between rail being financed by taxes, and roads financed by taxes, is that for rail, the tax revenues are not obtained from the users of the rail system. For the road system, this is different, the taxation income is directly related to usage of the road system. So in essence, road taxes are an imperfect user fee. But tax funding for rail cannot be seen in that way, because it is not the users that pay for usage.
Infrastructure that is way too costly and doesn't generate sufficient direct or indirect revenues to cover the construction costs does not benefit the economy as a whole, but becomes a drag on the economy.
@@91Durktheturk Ok, lets look up the US numbers.
In 2020 the US spent 204 billion $ on highways and roads (US Census Bureau). In the same year the revenue from state and local motor and fuel taxes was 52.7 billion $ (statista, unfortunately they hide the actual source behind a paywall) and federal fuel taxes amounted to about 32 billion $ (US DoT).
That's only about 40% cost coverage. So even if I missed some big source of revenue, it's highly unlikely that it would come even close to 100%. Also, I only counted direct spending here, without any secondary cost (like eg. accidents).
Edit: granted, I talked about "the interstate network" only, which only cost about 50 billion $ annually to maintain. So this alone would in fact be covered by tax revenue. (Albeit, only if we don't include external cost factors.)
But obviously, only looking at the interstates in isolation and ignoring the rest of the road network would be kinda pointless, wouldn't it?
It showed here CHINA is the best in rail road as portrayed as compared to other country like Europe and USA or Japan. They are now leading in fast communication in transport other country are left behind example USA they waiting for private sector to intervened in transportation.
Seems like an oil industry hit piece
Infrastructures are always in debt, it is meant to boost economy and mobility
High Speed are never profitable but supports the private sector and social activities. That's why most are government owned
They are long term but they build too many too fast
@@donkeydik2602 you miss out the point, china economy growth largely thank to HSR.
give you an example you grow exoctic fruit, before HRS you sell to local and surrounding area also have to compete with hundred of farmer like yourself doing the same thing. now with HSR your fruit can sell to every part of the country at a higher profit
that why china HSR phase 2 to expand it to 70,000km from current 40,000
connect every city has a population of 500k and above
If their HSR fail they would not plan to expanding it.
3:20 this is a very misleading mistake. In fact, yes you first have the massive expanses of these high speed stations and some take a lot of time to navigate and walk walk walk before you get to the platform and they absolutely do have airport-like security., luggage x-rays, bag examinations, wands, the metal detectors etc.
thanks for sharing the full story of china’s high speed rail, because most other videos don’t share the downsides of it. i really still hope we implement wayy more high speed rail or at least reliable and comfortable rail in the U.S.
I would say this video focused too much on the downsides.
The reality is, China treated it as a public service, as long as it can be self-sufficient it will be considered as success. That is also why the tickets are so cheap, only about half to 3/4 to similar service in Japan or Europe.
Given everything is privately owned and can be lobbied against in the U.S. It really not possiable without culture change or something like 1970's oil crisis.
Even the world-famous Japan's Shinkansen was built when Japanese rail is still state owned. Yes, it is now privately owned, profitable and actively expanding, but that project was seen as "a waste of money" back in 1970s. Their expansion speed is not where near the Chinese.
@@AaronShenghao How on earth can you conclude that Japan's HSR is profitable, when the Shinkansen generated 300 billion dollars in debts which have never been paid off? The reason why Japan privatised its state owned railway company was due to the debts, the state simply could not afford to have this railway company anymore...
@@91Durktheturk ok and how are you losers doing?
@@91Durktheturk Wanna estimate the cost of the US interstate and its debt had it been realised by independant companies?
Lol
We will continually mock China but its huge construction and fast growing economy is something the wes can only look at longingly.
your video is exactly a disaster. look at the comments
Yeah too many idiots not understanding economics. He needed to really explain it better.
@@simonjaz1279 state back funding cares about purpose not economics. Why US is spending 800 billion on military. Any economics? Or just purpose.
@@fine2502 economics and purpose . For example, we went to the middle east because if we didn't, our biggest trade partners in Europe and China would have been screwed. Saved probably a few trillion there.
Its not about pure Economics but when a HSR line goes to an EMPTY city...yeah...thats a huge waste.
@@simonjaz1279 it encourages tourism which over time builds up traffic. It is a tool that encourages economic growth by making areas more well connected than before. It's the indirect effects that make the economic returns well worth it
@@Elfangorlanzhou ok. When its connected to empty cities that have 0 people or connected to distant villages with next to nothing to go to see or even have the legality to visit what then? What happens when (like the rest of your infrastructure) you don't put in the money to maintain it. And finally, what happens when your average ridership is less than 2 rides a year per person?...
Its not a well implemented or thought out system and the current debt shows.
Good news is that if they deduct the cost from what the USA owes them, they still have money left over to build even more 🤣
The maintenance costs are gonna be a bear. It’s incredibly impressive, but I’m afraid the hyper focus on passenger high speed rail could become a detriment to the transportation on the whole long term.
it almost the same as maintenance for a highway.
@@angelmendez2211 No, no it is not. The tolerances required make it an entirely different animal, mag-lev infrastructure doubly so.
@@williambrasky3891 look up the cost it not that hard. Also highways usually get half lazily repaired at least the hsr they are basically mandated to use the money to repair since that really their only income. also there tolerance levels don't just only affect hsr it affects highways too.
@@angelmendez2211 Yea, I don’t know what you are talking about or to whom. HSR infrastructure needs to be maintained at a level to maintain safety. On a per passenger basis, it’s absolutely cheaper than an interstate, but no one said it wasn’t. You brought up highways. That wasn’t the point. It’s a false dichotomy. The point was that HSR is the most expensive, least flexible type of rail. Chinas network is impressive, but at what cost? A more balanced approach would have likely provided greater practical benefit to more people. That imbalance will only grow as time moves on.
@William Brasky look up Alan fisher and watch his two video about hsr.
People outside of China concerning about China's environmental concern just make me laugh, Its their country just let them do whatever the countries want.
The Chinese Government doesn't understand that they should build tiny one-lane tunnels filled with EV taxis going 25 mph. Hopefully Elon can keep that secret so US can stay ahead of China.