@@adityapacharne5688dude, let's not be unnecessarily rude. Both the players in this wcc seem like great human beings on top of being good chess players. Let's keep it civil and not bring any of them down.
As an Indian, I must say you guys are my favourite. The no eval bar commentary is a relief, not having a bunch of random 500 Elos shouting blunder because a GM couldn't find a move that stockfish recommended at depth 40. And then you guys are unbiased and objective in your analysis, you look at it from many different angles. And most importantly you guys are not swayed by what the big guns like Magnus, Hikaru, Fabiano, Giri, Kramnik etc are saying.
Thankyou for the kind words for the chess base stream.. i did catch ur streams and found the idea of no bar chess very interesting especially when u put ur evaluation.. but i was frustrated by how slow it was on the update .. ha ha .. but that tells how to get better . N i too hv a ways too go.
Gukesh is amazing. Some people criticize the match and the players strength simply based on their biased opinion. IMO you can say he is still not that kind of champion like Fischer, Kasparov or Carlsen because Carlsen is still there on top of the rating list leading by a big margin. But he has a lot of time to show if he has more potential to surpass his predecessors.
I thought Chessbase India coverage was ruined by the Evil Bar. They weren't commentating on chess they were just looking at the Evil Bar. Game 11 when it was an obvious blunder there was a human reaction to a human move. Game 14. They saw the Evil Bar skyrocket and they reacted to that.
PADDY UPTON has been with Our Indian Cricket team, which won the World cup and with the Indian Hockey team, that won the Olympic Gold . Now with Gukesh the World chess championship.
I guessed +2 for Gukesh, thinking Ding would play better than his previous years' play. It was +1 in a buzzer beater. Not dissatisfied with my prediction.
Armchair Psychologising this a bit: Ding played like he was in some kind of very complicated relationship with being World Champion: at times, a lot of times, he definitely wanted to leave, but he couldn't bring himself to walk out of the door. More than that when he went down in the match he immediately fought back to win, as he so often did against Nepo. Throughout the match, from what I saw he regularly outplayed Gukesh but then did not want to commit to winning. In the last game he took the very clear decision to go from a two result position where only he could win, to a two result position here only Gukesh could win, then beyond that, as I understand it from one of Hikaru's recaps, he could have forced a simplification which took the Rooks off the board. He deliberately kept alive the possibility of losing. Is that right? Most of the time I didn't think I was watching chess as a game, it was more chess as a declaration of Ding's mental and emotional state.
I think world chess championship is there to stay. There's something special about candidates and world championship. At most its going to be different crowns for different formats: world classical champion, world speed chess, etc. similar to test, 1 day, T20 cricket matches
Everyone was talking about dings blunders. Only one reporter after game 7 made the point of most accurate world championship match 😂😂😂. Till now nobody talks about it
In other sports, the #1 ranked person or team is not always the world champion. For many years, Brazil was widely acknowledged as the best soccer team in the world but they were not able to win the World Cup
The chess ELO system doesn't penalize inactivity, or at least reward recent performances by weighing them higher. Kasparov's ELO is still 2812. Would he be better than Gukesh today? Obviously not. Gukesh led the classical portion of Wijk. Won gold in board 1 of Olympiad (with a higher performance rating than Carlsen). Magnus, on the other hand, hasn't won a pure classical tournament which doesn't have rapid/blitz tiebreaks in each round in a while. The point about Magnus still being the best is a nuanced one.
55:52 there are more people in India than people in the entire continents of North and South America and western Eurpoe combined. And they live in a landmass that is 1/3 of USA. 😂
10:20 I’m gonna challenge your idea of “objective”. There are only 3 evals in chess: 1-0, .5-.5, 0-1 As long as you keep playing moves that maintain that current game state, play on! I think this is the future of chess
I'm hoping for a great Indian school. Whether Gukesh is the Indian Botvinnik is another question. Sadly, the match showed me something else. Chess has become a memory test. You don't know a line or misremember it you lose. Compare this with learning a language or how to play a musical instrument. Both enrich your life throughout your life, and not competitions. Would you rather be able to read French, play guitar, or look up and memorize engine lines. The latter is what Bob Dylan called pointless and useless knowledge. While I love chess, and it certainly teaches you a lot about life, I would never pursue it above learning a language or music.
Chess is not only a memory test (this coming from someone who advocates Fischer Random for all professional events). In this match, what I thought I saw was a lot of 3-result middlegames, and almost no games decided by the opening.
Although Gukeesh deservedly won the match, my take is that Ding beat himself -- Gukesh did not beat Ding. In the two games that Ding won, he outplayed Gukesh. In the three games that Gukesh won, Gukesh won by two by blunders from Ding and one by Ding's flagging. In the games where Gukesh was outplaying Ding, Gukesh wasn't able to convert his advantage.
Let’s be fair: Gukesh did not win the game on time bc Ding flagged; Ding flagged because he was lost on the board for a long time, and Gukesh was converting brilliantly, and he could not find any moves to keep the game going. And the Qc8 blunder happened in a game where Ding was being outplayed; that’s how Gukesh converted his advantage that game: he got Ding low enough on time and in a bad enough position that a blunder came. At this level it’s a very long process to push another player over the edge, takes lots of pressure, dozens of small battles and decisions. Ding’s wins were clearer and more overwhelming just as you say. A very close match for sure.
Maybe. Chessmetrics has him at #1 for the first time in 1964, and from late 1966 he holds #1 through till his retirement. (They generally have Korchnoi at #2 throughout this period). The first FIDE list I can find is from 1967 w/ Spassky and Fischer =1. From 1968 on Fischer is ahead.
@@chesscomdpruess Also in the biggest tournament of the year, the second Piatigorsky Cup, Fischer both lost to Spassky and was second behind him in the final standings. Bobby had not reached his full potential yet in 1966.
if no indians wins the championship next time, viewership will drop. economically one viewer/subscriber from the west is more valued than one biwer/subscriber from the east.
ding stated in olympiad that he started prep much before olympiad . He only met with his team 3 weeks ago.
Oh no now can we defend our man child ☹️
@@adityapacharne5688dude, let's not be unnecessarily rude. Both the players in this wcc seem like great human beings on top of being good chess players. Let's keep it civil and not bring any of them down.
The best chess channel on UA-cam. Thanks for the coverage guys
As an Indian, I must say you guys are my favourite. The no eval bar commentary is a relief, not having a bunch of random 500 Elos shouting blunder because a GM couldn't find a move that stockfish recommended at depth 40. And then you guys are unbiased and objective in your analysis, you look at it from many different angles. And most importantly you guys are not swayed by what the big guns like Magnus, Hikaru, Fabiano, Giri, Kramnik etc are saying.
Exactly. These guys rock . With engines commenting is easy and the game becomes boring at times . 😂
Jesse,that was paddy upton not bobby Upton at 54:55
Jesse: "He's 32. It's over" :D
1:35 Thanks for the shoutout David! So glad to have accidentally kept the stream alive for the big moment
And I learned a lot from our spar!
It was a satisfying match. I think this is more than what anyone hoped for coming into it. We should all be grateful it turned out the way it did.
Fantastic point about the *people* in the match.
Loved the Discussion. Enjoyable & Insightful.
1st time watching your channel. Great content. Thank you!
Thankyou for the kind words for the chess base stream.. i did catch ur streams and found the idea of no bar chess very interesting especially when u put ur evaluation.. but i was frustrated by how slow it was on the update .. ha ha .. but that tells how to get better . N i too hv a ways too go.
There's a 30 minute interview with Paddy Upton on youtube. Worth seeing.
Gukesh is amazing. Some people criticize the match and the players strength simply based on their biased opinion. IMO you can say he is still not that kind of champion like Fischer, Kasparov or Carlsen because Carlsen is still there on top of the rating list leading by a big margin. But he has a lot of time to show if he has more potential to surpass his predecessors.
I thought Chessbase India coverage was ruined by the Evil Bar. They weren't commentating on chess they were just looking at the Evil Bar. Game 11 when it was an obvious blunder there was a human reaction to a human move. Game 14. They saw the Evil Bar skyrocket and they reacted to that.
PADDY UPTON has been with Our Indian Cricket team, which won the World cup and with the Indian Hockey team, that won the Olympic Gold . Now with Gukesh the World chess championship.
I guessed +2 for Gukesh, thinking Ding would play better than his previous years' play. It was +1 in a buzzer beater. Not dissatisfied with my prediction.
World championship is still and will be the biggest event. Fide should just discuss with magnus, meet him midway, change the format and include him
Armchair Psychologising this a bit: Ding played like he was in some kind of very complicated relationship with being World Champion: at times, a lot of times, he definitely wanted to leave, but he couldn't bring himself to walk out of the door. More than that when he went down in the match he immediately fought back to win, as he so often did against Nepo.
Throughout the match, from what I saw he regularly outplayed Gukesh but then did not want to commit to winning.
In the last game he took the very clear decision to go from a two result position where only he could win, to a two result position here only Gukesh could win, then beyond that, as I understand it from one of Hikaru's recaps, he could have forced a simplification which took the Rooks off the board. He deliberately kept alive the possibility of losing. Is that right?
Most of the time I didn't think I was watching chess as a game, it was more chess as a declaration of Ding's mental and emotional state.
Really liked the last comment - think they were very sportsmanlike especially given our current world
I think world chess championship is there to stay. There's something special about candidates and world championship.
At most its going to be different crowns for different formats: world classical champion, world speed chess, etc. similar to test, 1 day, T20 cricket matches
Everyone was talking about dings blunders. Only one reporter after game 7 made the point of most accurate world championship match 😂😂😂. Till now nobody talks about it
In other sports, the #1 ranked person or team is not always the world champion. For many years, Brazil was widely acknowledged as the best soccer team in the world but they were not able to win the World Cup
Can we at least appreciate the fact that Ding, the 17th world champion, ended up as 17th in the world after losing his crown
We need Magnus-Gukesh in 960 and to set up a true Chess960 World Championship parallel to the classical title.
The chess ELO system doesn't penalize inactivity, or at least reward recent performances by weighing them higher. Kasparov's ELO is still 2812. Would he be better than Gukesh today? Obviously not. Gukesh led the classical portion of Wijk. Won gold in board 1 of Olympiad (with a higher performance rating than Carlsen). Magnus, on the other hand, hasn't won a pure classical tournament which doesn't have rapid/blitz tiebreaks in each round in a while. The point about Magnus still being the best is a nuanced one.
Surely there has to be a classical match between Magnus and Gukesh to discover who is the best classical chess player in the world.
It's not happening...
Finally a WC who brings something new (going for a win even when worse)
Guys. Arjun erigaisi is struggling for his visa for blitz in newyork. Speak to us embassy 😂😂 arjun has pleaded for some help
55:52 there are more people in India than people in the entire continents of North and South America and western Eurpoe combined.
And they live in a landmass that is 1/3 of USA. 😂
I am disgusted to say that in the UK there was no mainstream news at all.
what is this constant capablanca disrespect !!! XD XD XD
30:17 I think the AVRO tournament was in 1938, and Botvinnik became WCC in 1948 in The Hague/Moscow.
That is correct.
enjoyed this one, specially psychology part
Someone tell jessie that that guy's name is Paddy, not Bobby.
Facts from Jesse "I'm gonna pushback a little" Kraai
From an Indian Viewer
Waiting for your book to come in india❤
Didn't Ding say in his interview with Sagar that he is more interested in rapid, blitz & freestyle now. A bit like Magnus 😀
Magnus doesn't even play classical. What are we talking here?
I think gukesh record will be there for the next 20 years . I dont think next gen kids can win the candidates at 18 years of age
that under 4 y/o will become champion b4 his 18th bd imho
10:20 I’m gonna challenge your idea of “objective”.
There are only 3 evals in chess: 1-0, .5-.5, 0-1
As long as you keep playing moves that maintain that current game state, play on! I think this is the future of chess
Preach!
Only one problem with that: how do you know which one you're in?
32:25 lol David is so funny
I'm hoping for a great Indian school. Whether Gukesh is the Indian Botvinnik is another question.
Sadly, the match showed me something else. Chess has become a memory test. You don't know a line or misremember it you lose. Compare this with learning a language or how to play a musical instrument. Both enrich your life throughout your life, and not competitions. Would you rather be able to read French, play guitar, or look up and memorize engine lines. The latter is what Bob Dylan called pointless and useless knowledge. While I love chess, and it certainly teaches you a lot about life, I would never pursue it above learning a language or music.
Chess is not only a memory test (this coming from someone who advocates Fischer Random for all professional events). In this match, what I thought I saw was a lot of 3-result middlegames, and almost no games decided by the opening.
FYI guys gukesh was rewarded with 635000 dollars prize money by the government . 😂
Although Gukeesh deservedly won the match, my take is that Ding beat himself -- Gukesh did not beat Ding. In the two games that Ding won, he outplayed Gukesh. In the three games that Gukesh won, Gukesh won by two by blunders from Ding and one by Ding's flagging. In the games where Gukesh was outplaying Ding, Gukesh wasn't able to convert his advantage.
You win games when the opponent doesn't play the most accurate games. Simple as that.
Let’s be fair: Gukesh did not win the game on time bc Ding flagged; Ding flagged because he was lost on the board for a long time, and Gukesh was converting brilliantly, and he could not find any moves to keep the game going. And the Qc8 blunder happened in a game where Ding was being outplayed; that’s how Gukesh converted his advantage that game: he got Ding low enough on time and in a bad enough position that a blunder came. At this level it’s a very long process to push another player over the edge, takes lots of pressure, dozens of small battles and decisions. Ding’s wins were clearer and more overwhelming just as you say. A very close match for sure.
Ding imploded and specially at the end to everyone's surprise
Bobby Fischer was not the best player in the world in 1966, maybe in 1969.
Maybe. Chessmetrics has him at #1 for the first time in 1964, and from late 1966 he holds #1 through till his retirement. (They generally have Korchnoi at #2 throughout this period). The first FIDE list I can find is from 1967 w/ Spassky and Fischer =1. From 1968 on Fischer is ahead.
@@chesscomdpruess Also in the biggest tournament of the year, the second Piatigorsky Cup, Fischer both lost to Spassky and was second behind him in the final standings. Bobby had not reached his full potential yet in 1966.
I agree with jesse. Nobody care about those little blitz, 960 stuff. We want to see fight in a classical way.
if no indians wins the championship next time, viewership will drop. economically one viewer/subscriber from the west is more valued than one biwer/subscriber from the east.
Huh
No. World championship matches always draws attention no matter who is playing . Still Indian fans will follow 😂
@@joylife428 yeah, that's because people in India knows to play chess. With cheap internet. It's easy to follow live action.