The main difference between you and me, is that; you do this for a living. You make money of reviewing gear, and you use it for your work. I don't make any money from music. I get no returns on buying gear. It's a pure luxury purchase for my hobby. So when the price of all the necessities for living has gone up 30-50%, but wages stand still, the first thing that stops are purchases like this. I thought about buying one of these when the economy was better, but now I have to spend it on food and normal stuff instead. I don't care if the price is adjusted for inflation. It used to be difficult to afford, but now it’s not even an option I would consider. So companies can say all they want that inflation is why the price is high, but I'm still not going to buy it. If you jack up the price when people can barely afford rent and food, and they have much less to spend at the end of the month; nobody is going to buy it. I literally can’t.... so it's just out of the question and I have to look for something else that's cheaper.. And now that plugins and other stuff has gotten really good for decent prices, it can't really be justified even if I could afford it…If I can’t sound good without a $700 reverb, then the reverb is not the problem.
The option for "home gamers" or hobbiest is the huge influx of plugins, and maybe one decent "buy once, cry once" interface purchase. I personally got a focusrite 18i20, and then, when Im not using my real amps - Im using all the IO and daw to try out tons of plugins. Yes, its not all in one easy package...but if you get your DAW and plugins setup in an easy format, and setup DAW projects likes "presets" - theres a plethora of things out there a DL away. Ive even done thing like run my interface in "4 cable method" and running plugin preamps to real power amp and then guitar cab. Skys the limit when you have the time and creativity...and you're not tied up with having to move your gear/computer around since well - you're not gigging! lol
I struggle with this argument because IME most full-time musicians do not make enough from music to justify a $400+ delay pedal. How many gig nights of work is that unless you're a top session guy? The only people I know with high end pedals are people with white collar careers that play music as a hobby, all the full-time musicians I know play garden-variety Boss, Ibanez, etc. effects or stuff in that ballpark.
@Lavabug HVAC/maintenance technician here. I make a lot of money at what I do and spend it on guitar stuff. I don't spend money on alcohol, cigarettes, or video games. I'm not into cars, or anything else but guitar and piano so it frees up money for purchases like this.
@@gwynbleiddroach2589 good for you! (My template is similar and now that the kid's are out of college, more gets poured in, without too much irritation to my wife LOL).*Almost* done with my home studio.
I've got a Hotone Ampero Mini that I bought second hand from eBay for £100. I watch content and read about great and expensive gear, both modelling and analogue effects - but I have to constantly remind myself that my little modeller and multi-effects is actually adequate for my current needs, even if there are better options out there. Music gear content does a good job of trying to convince you that you need more expensive stuff, and it's a constant mental battle to resist!
I find that with gear there’s two considerations for the price. First, will people listening notice a difference, and second, will I notice a difference that inspires me to play. There’s diminishing returns on both of those as prices go up, the first sooner. I don’t think anyone’s going to be listening to something saying “wow that’s a $700 reverb sound right there, you can really tell.” Fair enough, but is it worth it to me as a player/producer? I love reverb, but to be honest this isn’t going to give me sounds that drastically greater or even more unique than what I already have to make it worth that much to me. Even if I have a lot more disposable income line day, I really don’t see myself buying a $700 reverb pedal. Honestly, they should’ve made it a rack unit, not a pedal.
Form factor. Very few people use rack effects these days. Especially guitarists. Plugins are cheaper and easier in the studio. Pedals and profilers/modelers are easier and cheaper to use live.
UA-camr influencers is not an inherently shameful job. However it is 2024 and the guitar community needs to mature and actually acknowledge that it is all part of a colossal wild consumerism They are just making infomercials made to sell gear. That’s it. The public benefits by seeing new products etc etc. the gear company benefits by getting an immense cheap marketing push they couldn’t have dreamed of pre- UA-cam- just for the paltry cost of units they send out for the infomercials. The influencers benefit by establishing their business and getting free gear. The problem is that it encourages tremendous GAS, and I’m certain that there is a sizeable percentage of guitar players who watch more gear infomercials, lust after gear etc than they do actually playing the guitar.
@@darekpeszt3640even the lessons are just ads for lesson courses and the few people actually teaching on UA-cam get no views. It’s a shame. I’m starting to really dislike guitar UA-cam.
@@darekpeszt3640 Last I checked, no one was trying to veil it. All the folks I follow are very up front about the gear they're being paid to demo - it's a service that exists to help players who are looking for gear make decisions based on actual usage. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything *shrug*
@@misterknightowlandco this is the other problem! (First is the outrageous GAS culture etc) The people who make actual instructional videos get essentially zero views compared to the people making infomercials, so they inevitably stop as it requires significant amount of work and effort to do instructional videos. Unless they do it as a labour of love but that’s an unrealistic expectation as ppl have jobs and lives etc etc So we are left with the guitar UA-cam community really just being about gear companies pushing out products to the influencers to do infomercials with and us all consuming it On the other hand, it’s up to the viewers to actually support the UA-camrs who make instructional videos, the the insidious thing is- the dopamine hit from gear infomercials is WAY WAY stronger than any hit from learning, so it’s difficult
@@40WattPodcast I am not saying this. I clearly state how it benefits the UA-camr (views/money/business/free gear), the viewer (learn about new gear, learn about useful products), and the gear companies (absurdly cheap marketing reach just for product samples- the UA-cam influencers are their independent contractors who act as their marketing team!) This is all true. The ‘meta’ issue is it feeds outrageous consumerism and GAS and can potentially sidetrack people etc etc Nobody is dying and there are clearly worse things in the world and people’s lives- just a pretty valid observation and something to think about in my mind anyway.
Biggest issues is what Lukather talked about in his instructional vid - ie why would a guitar player need a studio quality reverb for live playing? It's lost on everybody bar the guy playing, the audience won't care, so why bust the bank on a 700 quid pedal when you can get everything you need and more in an HX Fx for the same of not less
The HX Stomp has good enough Reverbs and Delays that are good and will solve 99% of what guitarist need - unless you really are a big Strymon fan boy - these are just unwanted luxuries, yeah good to have them, but you really don't need them, the bread and butter is all there in the HX Stomp - this is expensive Jam that you probably don't need. How many agree?🙂
Have both. HX Stomp is fantastic. BigSky is bit more airy when you use it, but difference is so small. I believe that Strymon use some eq tweaks for their algos because with guitar it sounds spacy - not like any other (even high price) reverb. But yeah, for money HX Stomp has very few competitors (Ampero Stomp, Boss GT1000 Core maybe and used FM3).
Love the Big Sky don’t get me wrong - but I think John hit the nail on the head: if the audience can tell the big sky from the HX, you’re using too much!
I've gone full circle and come back to Boss pedals. They're affordable, sound fantastic...heck a lot of the boutique offerings are clones of the old Boss classics anyway. Also, I can't imagine getting a beer spilled on my Big Sky MX at a bar gig.
Post covid inflation has really done a number on gear prices. Been touring extensively for the last two years and the biggest lesson I’ve learned is that the most beneficial thing you can do with your money is buy the cheapest gear that’ll make you happy and make your show better. Also make sure you take the time to learn your gear. Good luck to all my fellow musicians 🎸
If they relic-ed the case they can justify whatever price they want to charge because, as the Fender Custom Shop will tell you, guitarists are prepared to pay pretty much anything for stuff that looks old. Folk need to keep their wallets in their pockets for a year or three to reset the system.
I kept my wallet in my pocket for 20. the only way to beat inflation is to spend your money before its value evaporates, or invest. buy 2nd hand, let someone else take the depreciation and use your money well, while its still worth something
I’ve been trying to point this out for years now. When companies like Victory release new amps that cost £5k just for the head, that will take 100% of my pub gigging money for over 6 months!!!
I was so stunned when I saw the prices of the new Victory amps I actually thought I had misread it, but no, it’s really 5k😵💫. I bought a V40 Duchess when it came out in 2017 and while it’s a ‘good’ amp , and I’ve done loads of gigs with it, it’s not a ‘great’ amp - my Dr Z Maz Jr was so much better but way heavier and less practical. The Duchess now costs £1300 which for me is still too much…
Most purchased pedalboard gear ends up sitting in a box somewhere in your garage. Personally, I'm not overpaying. When a new video pops up, I go straight to the price of the product and either immediately dump the demo or watch it if I can afford it. It really doesn't matter how interesting it is if it's out of reach for me.
I own a Strymon Volante and let me tell you this... 1) If I had not of been made redundant from my job of 12 years {not music related} & 2) had I of not found one in a reasonable pre-owned condition for a "reasonable" price; I would not own a single Strymon pedal because of the price of entry being so darn high 😂
Strymon doesn't have their own factory where they make these things. They use contract manufacturers. Those contract manufacturers have MASSIVE buying power. So, in effect, Strymon has MASSIVE buying power. So there's no reason for these things to cost what they cost. The components in them are inexpensive. I don't mind paying for R&D it took to come up with this idea. But there's no way this thing has more than $100 in raw materials. And that's probably high by 1.5-2x.
@@keithbenedict8764 Nonsense on stilts. R&D costs. Manufacturing costs. Transportation costs. Marketing costs. Service/support costs. Oh, and then there is profit. Investors expect to be rewarded for risking their money in meeting those upfront costs. TLDR. You aren’t paying for the materials. You are paying for the knowledge to turn those parts into high quality finished products. You are paying for access to the resources (and risk tolerance) needed to produce them in bulk. If you think you can do it for less? Go for it and let the better, most competitively priced product win.
@@RealFitchEmerson Since I'm just a home hobbyist, that kind of thing is overkill for me and WAY out of budget. I'm happy with my Line 6 Catalyst and a bunch of pedals.
Well, the components they use are actually pretty damn expensive. The chips aren't your average Belton brick or spin FV-1, in terms of DSP there's probably a 40/50$ worth chip in there, I'd say 100$ in raw materials is almost conservative considering quality is their thing. This is not your average overpriced two transistor fuzz pedal. I think this argument should go more towards the 300€ overdrive pedals, not gonna throw names but you know there are quite a few like these. In any case raw materials are really a small part of the expense here, they need to pay workers fairly, keep up their websites, pay taxes, marketing, their distributors, the designers, get custom enclosures and paints, pay the engineers who keep doing R&D for FW updates and future pedals... I understand these prices are crazy (I only own their power supply tbh and it is new technology) but I understand also the difficulty of keeping up a niche business like this and the costs are just as high for them. Gonna go a bit on a tangent here but we gotta realise that the mad inflation has been killing the middle class, and these are supposed to be middle class products, not "I'm a dentist and still can't afford one" kind of products.
@@noisebrick9248 The DSP that Helix has is $20 when bought in quantities of 1,000. I'm sure Line 6 is buying them in quantities much greater than 1,000, but the point remains. DSP chips are cheap. Very cheap.
I think the interesting point in this is the "relative to wages" because we all bemoan the cost of things, everything is too expensive, and yes various industries (notably the ones required to simply live like food & housing) are intentionally gouging us. Guitar stuff isn't (with the possible exception of Fender). You want to be able to afford a Strymon BigSky MX, take to the streets & demand better wages & fairer wealth distribution.
@@GitShiddy fair enough. I don’t think it’s unfair for them to price however they want, it’s just not worth it to me at that price, so I can go without. If too many people think the same, that presents a problem for them.
This might be heresy to some. But if your an intermediate to advanced intermediate guitarist who gigs off and on, your probably better off with a Sire guitar, PodGo and a subscription to truefire than boutique pedals and a custom shop guitar.
with my respect to strymon, and i do love the big sky for years, after comparing both, i think the MX wasn't such a big jump from the old big sky. beside that, i think their pricing especially the big sky plugin is insane. as good as this reverb is, 200$ for a plugin that use the same algorithm they used for 12 years in pedal form is pricey.
Tbh, I just can't justify spending upwards of 600 dollars on a single reverb pedal when my guitars and my NUX MG-300 processor combined cost less than that and fulfill all my needs as a bedroom guitarist. Also, in general, I've noticed that UA-cam guitarfluencers (not you specifically, though) love to slap the label "affordable" to anything that costs less than a used car. I don't like this. When you can buy a perfectly decent Harley Benton for about 150 euros - or less, an 800 dollar guitar is not affordable. When you can buy a NUX MG-300 for 120 euros, another processor that costs five times as much is not affordable, even if there are processors like the Quad Cortex that cost a whole lot more. And so on, and so forth.
If you can get people to buy your stuff at inflated prices then go for it. You will always get the 'shinny' brigade claiming they have it on pre-order and it is worth it. Most multi-effect pedals can do what this does and more. Nobody is gong to tell what is being played live or in a mix. But I guess the 'game-changer' crowd has more money than sense. R&D for these pedals have been done years ago so it just getting free cash from people who must have the latest.
Great video! I work in a music store in New Zealand and we are always punished by exchange rate anyway, but music gear has inflated beyond reason. Even with the healthy discount I get being an employee wages have just not kept up to the point where I can’t afford to buy most of the gear I’m interested in, other than consumables.
Prices go up until no one can afford them and then companies take a nose dive when they can't produce unlimited growth. Though I'm sure the people with money for a Strymon MX pedal don't see this as such a big deal. I just don't think cost wise they are practical for us more budget conscious customers. It's like a high end sports car or meal at a fancy restaurant. They aren't aimed at people who need to see the price tag. But I have to say that when a single pedal is reaching the cost of a guitar that's pretty nuts.
When I listen to people playing and I think "I really love what this guy (gal) is doing" it almost never has anything to do with the pedals they're using. It has to do with the song they're playing and their arrangement or the composition of the song. Maybe if there was more focus on the writing and playing part and less on the gadgets maybe the music would get better.
This is why plugins are so popular, hardware is becoming too expensive. IMO something like a basic VST loader that can load something like Helix Native/captures/neural dsp plugins and is small enough to put in a pedalboard (I’ve seen some starting to pop around) should give most multifx pedals a run for the money. Once it’s a cheap type of product made by Chinese companies, it’s over. Only those who really “”need”” extremely high DSP chains will use something like a Fractal
You nailed all of the points. The funniest part of the new Big Sky pedal costing even more money, is that I actually generally prefer the sounds in the older unit when compared. A nice piece of gear, but I could never ever see myself spending that much for a single pedal with a single effect. I bought a used TimeLine for a few hundred and that was pushing the bank. I was able to get a similar deal on a NightSky reverb. They were purchased years apart AND things happened to line up right, or I could not have bought them. I could not imagine buying all of these units new.
If I can't afford it, I either save up, or just don't buy it. When I was gigging I played a used Mexican Fender Strat and a Marshall valve state along with a couple of boss pedals. I had a great time, the punters had a laugh and a dance and enjoyed the show. Today if I was starting out again I'd probably be playing a Jet guitar into a Boss Katana amp, arguably both better quality than what I had back then and possibly cheaper too. The options are out there still. You really don't need a two rock amp with a custom shop guitar into three grands worth of pedals. It's nice if you can afford it, but really not a requirement.
A $700 reverb pedal is a luxury item to me. I would rather spend that $700 (or less) on a multi-effects (like the Fractal VP4 or TC Plethora X5) and use it with a tube amp or ToneX and have a great-sounding, compact, and affordable rig (the older I get, the less gear I want to haul to gigs.) Or put that $700 towards a great guitar. Still, if a huge $4000 pedalboard makes you happy and you have the disposable funds, go for it. No rules. You do you. Just remember to practice guitar between tweaking gear. 🤣
I bought my Bongo 5HH for $2000 in 2017 and had to sell it. Now they're $3000 and I'm a father as well. I can't buy it back at this point and honestly I've found my Sire gear to be perfect for my needs now that I'm not taking my gear out seven nights a week.
I don't really see the problem. There are more gear manufacturers than ever (especially pedals) creating more competition than ever. You can get incredible stuff from Behringer, TC, JHS or even Chinese for very little money. Other companies like Strymon, Meris and Fractal cater to a different part of the market which is great for all who want it, but honestly, nobody needs studio quality for a noisy gig, and for recording you can just use plugins. One of the best reverb plugs is even free but if you absolutely must gig with the highest time effects, get a Specular Tempus. According to a real expert like Benn Jordan you can't get much better algorithms than that anyway. It's a great time to be a guitar player (except for gigs though).
The biggest problem I see is the inherent planned obsolescence in much of the modern gear and the desire for players to try and keep up with the technology. There is TONS of used gear out there that pro players have used for decades to create awesome music, but the pull of “the shiny new thing” for too many players is becoming a black hole for the wallet. There has never been a better time to get good “budget” gear, but too many players feel the need to validate their playing ability with top-of-the-line gear. If you can afford the newest toys, fine, but if not….find the thing that does what you need on the less expensive side and just PLAY!
I've been in the "cheaper pedal that does the thing" club for a long time. But it's a false economy. A month later when I want the "other thing" the cheap one doesn't do it and I'm on the hunt for yet another cheaper pedal. Fixed all that with a newly acquired Quad Cortex. I think there's three pedals out of about 30 that I will keep, mostly for sentimental reasons. In three weeks I'm still being amazed what can be achieved with the QC and uncovering features and combinations of features that will keep me creatively happy for a very long time.
The majority of muses who buy gear don't make money from their music. Ironically, it's this demographic who keep companies like Strymon alive. That's why companies like Strymon spend so much on advertising, both in magazines and social media. Overpriced? Yes, I think so. But these companies price their products at a price they think the market can stand....... Roland reps used to show us new product at trade shows, and ask us dealers what we thought it should be priced at........ When you gave them what you thought was a fair retail price, they usually retorted with an intended target retail price of double that....... they always aim high.
One issue is not just the price, but resale value as well. For example a 1965 Blackface Fender amp is worth 10 times what it sold for 50 years ago. In 5 years from now a digital piece of gear can be worthless. No one wants what could be considered obsolete gear. That makes it a harder decision to pay big dollars for a piece of gear today, that you know will devalue as much as 80 percent a few short years down the road
I think you pegged me in that second group of people. I’m a doctor and I make a good living. I have some expendable income and I love all this guitar gear. I bought a bigsky Mx and it’s great. But I really just write, record and play at home in a bedroom studio. I’m feeling a little guilty and maybe I should sell some of this gear and save the money. Tbh I feel like I can get fairly similar tones with my hx stomp
Great points. I think there is consumism in music as it is in fashion or consumer electronics. We have great music throughout the history and none of it benefited from the nowadays technology, and it is not because of that that is bad. This to say, that I think the new gear comes in two logics: Try to inovate and offer something different to the consumer that set it appart from the competition, while allowing the musician to also create something new; Create a need in the consumer that is not real. Brands often times create solutions to problems that don't exist. This being said, I think there are two types of consumers for music products. The professionals and particularly the giging musicians who don't care so much about the latest product but rather something that they know and can rely on. If we watch for most of the boards of our favourite artist we will se mainly well established products. The other type of consumer is the bedroom artist or more amatourish who doesn't live from music, and do this as an hobbie. I think many of the YT content on new products and even some of the procuts are to this person. This is the person that will indulge himself in buying the last pedal in the market. A pedal like the strymon bigsky in a band setting only makes sense in specific types of music, more experimental and ambient stuff and even there, when you put together the other band elements, the fact that every venue has different accoustics, the fact that many venues are actually shitty, and have bad electricity, crowd noise and so on, typically a cheaper reverb will be enough, even if it doesn't have the same algorithms, most of the people will not notice. In conclusion, besides their utility, which of course they have, I think this type of gear is mostly for our own enjoyment, which is totally fine. Maybe the exception is when it is used in a production setting, where in the past the producer needed to have rack gear or chain different type of devices and now, it can have it in a pedal format.
Disagree. Music has greatly benefited from technology. The problem is that the recording industry is dying because it failed to adapt to streaming and other forms of digital delivery. So they are bankrolling the use of this tech in really uncreative ways.
@@kellygreenii what I meant is that without the today's technology musicians were always able to do good music. The digital technology of the 80's cannot be compared to the one used in 2024, and 80's are a decade full of great music even for the today standards. So the idea that we need the newest device as the missing piece in our rig, is an ilusion. A fun ilusion, but an ilusion.
@@ricardofarinha8922 Missing the point. Technology is a tool. Tools expand what we are capable of. The reason why today’s music is stale is because record labels fumbled the digital revolution tried to protect an obsolete and exploitative business model instead of evolving. Now they are extremely risk-averse and the music the publish (pop) is formulaic and repetitive. The 80s were the last decade where labels took chances on fresh sounds. Which is why you struggle to hear the difference between most music made in the 90s, and what gets made today. Not the fault of the tools. Fault of the gatekeepers.
I think the price increase is tied to research and development and the feature set of the newer unit. The Strymon BigSky reverb pedal was released in late 2013 (Premier Guitar) with a retail price of $479 (Amazon). As of October 2024, the BigSky is still priced at $479 (Strymon), indicating that its price has remained stable over the years despite general inflation. Recently, Strymon introduced the BigSky MX, an updated version with additional features, priced at $679 (Sweetwater).
Looking forward to the Halloween episode where John severs several fingers with that machete trying to get into a pedal box 😆 I wince every time it comes out!
I think it's quite clever of Strymon. The MX series pricing seems to be their way of not annoying customers by devaluing their existing pedals too much and also not upgrading that much to make their main pedals obsolete. You can still sell your big sky for a decent price which benefits anyone upgrading and also new customers who worry about losing resale value when shelling out 700 quid.
I flicked through alot of comments and didn’t see this mentioned (im sure someone has) I know some pretty big dealers in the guitar market and i can tell you the uptake on finance wether its klarna etc or traditional finance is MASSIVE. Its a huge part of whats enabled gear to rise above and beyond inflation in the high end market. Its consumerism/capitalism. Fact is, YOU have a choice of great budget gear too, you have a choice who you watch and what you think of them, so in the end its no big deal in my view. Plus things find there actual value on the used market where your money is safer and goes further (80% or more of my gear is used)
Absolutely confirm that professional gear and even mid-tier products are expensive for the average muzo. What I noticed is that part time guitarists that have day-jobs are actually those that are spending big bucks on gear. There is a also perception that if you have high value gear, it makes you a “better” musician which is not the case - so what I’m saying it is a “status thing” to have expensive gear and perhaps some brands are exploiting this. I have learnt that you can get “by” with less expensive gear and even outperform someone using more expensive gear!. Just because you are playing ‘59 Les Paul doesn’t mean anything musically….
I've had my Big Sky for nearly a decade. It works flawlessly. It was expensive when I bought it, and I could probably sell it for about $250 right now. Absolutely worth it because I use the hell out of it. Good stuff is expensive. Cars, watches, TVs, computers...whatever. If you think it's too much, but a less expensive alternative. For anything Chase Bliss or Strymon make, there will be a NuX or Mooer coming out right behind it.
Im usually very mean to other musos especially gear addicts but I really enjoy this type of content that you do. My story is a bit sad/lame. 19 years and owned more gear than most and I still can’t play smoke on the water. I’d urge caution to folks about buying expensive gear because there isn’t much value in it. I thought I was chasing something that was left field until I got older and realised I was just part of a capitalism clusterfudge during say 2005-2015 when gear was peaking. I even got my first guitar (proper one) from ISHIBASHI in Japan! Online! I called them via “the home phone” 😂 it’s wild to think now that I would’ve been a handful of people doing risky stuff that early on. But all of that never amounted to anything musically. And I was never in my bedroom weeping. I was out with the “cool kids” who played major gigs. I was out with around “it” but it still wasn’t enough to urge me to want to actually learn. Not that I didn’t try… but what you should take from all of this is my first run Danocaster Jazzmaster through my Swart ASAT and a vintage board worth thousands never made me a better player. If they did? They would have. Aaaand if you don’t think it’ll happen to you? It will 😂
Before the HX Stomp came out I had a very large pedalboard. I had two Strymon pedals at a combined cost of around $800. I now only need the Stomp to get the same wet effects that are every bit as good as the two Strymons. I did get some good use out of those pedals, but the Helix models override any need for them now. And my pedalboard is so much smaller😊
I’m happier when I just play. I do half of that unplugged. Only a handful of companies justify the expense. Chase Bliss is at the top of the list for me. They actually do the R&D and push to make new things noone else can. Again, agree on the HX Stomp which holds up amazingly for value / utility.
I think it's just tough because the music industry is the one place where you can tell a big difference between pro and casual gear, and players at those levels. In the last 5 years, it's gotten harder tho, cheap gear can be very good noow. But just like with anything, the prmoise of expensive gear making you better is tempting, and with music, it's just within reach. Anything to cut down the learning curve. I think strymon is just for pros, but they obviously need casual buyers, and that promise of a strymon pedal making you better is something the internet created. That's why it's nuts, if everyone talked about the Tone City pedals and didn't constantly mention that they're budget friendly, people would believe their performance more, but they look at them as cheap
Musical gear has always been expensive, but during 21st century it has become more affordable for the masses due to cheap manufacturing in China and Indonesia. This is why Line 6 can sell their boxes for so much less compared to those built in the US and EU.Value is also dependent on the user. Some see great value in buying a stupidly priced Ibanez TS10 (they were cheap crap in the 90s)or a Klon but balk at paying more than £50 for a delay pedal.Others would spend £5000 on a guitar and pair it with a crappy amp. The fact is we have the choice to spend money how we wish.
Sometimes when im out at a gig and i look at a guitarists gear on stage like guitar pedalboard amp etc i think to myself "wow, theres enough money spent there for a deposit on a house, maybe pedalboard alone!"
I always base the “price” based on its Boss equivalent, then what else does it do for cost features. A Boss Ds-1 does the job for 89$ Canadian what does the pedal do to justify its cost over that?
Like all things in life, value proposition tends to be described in expense vs income return, because we all think about income too much. Value is also the smile something brings to our faces when we save hard and buy the thing we’ve wanted for a long time. Of course value in monetary terms is important, but some people’s value is different to another’s, hence the argument of a cheaper pedal having 95% of the great tone of one priced 10 times more.
I've only been playing for 2 years so I'm really in learning mode. There is a LOT to learn about gear, so I've opted for the Spark2 amp from Positive Grid. Provides a platform for practice and learning amp and pedal settings to explore and learn to create the sounds I want. I'll probably settle on a Helix or FMX or QC, but my skills will take several more years to reach the point where one of those products make sense. And forget buying tons of pedals in the mean time. Maybe you just wanted the capable musicians to respond. ;-)
Who knows but my kneejerk reaction to the price increases after peering into my crystal ball set to idiot level -- sorry but I can't seem to increase the level setting on it -- is that music creation for public not personal entertainment is becoming increasingly exclusive. And that makes TONS of sense for a world having endured a pandemic if relatively successfully compared to earlier such pandemics -- i.e., when people gather in large numbers they want their shared experience to be worth the risk of having to endure yet another potential pandemic. And so yes digital signal processing for music will increase in price as the music entertainment industry naturally monopolizes further to survive at least while the social trauma endures. All I can say is that for those of us who still can afford such luxuries, it's FANTASTIC stuff!
What we're paying for is the overhead and higher wages for design/programming based in the USA/EU, and if manufactured there it adds even more to the cost. I wouldn't say you're getting a ton of an upgrade over a Chinese based company like Mooer, Hotone, Valenton, etc. Since China has had the advantage of already having an established factory providing manufacturing services to these companies, they've had time with these designs and processes so its allowed them to learn and come up with their own competitive products at a much lower cost since they don't have to start from 0 and already have their overhead pretty much covered by the manufacturing alone. So save money? good. Buy and support local economy also good. Just depends on what you value the most. But sound wise, and quality wise I think cheap and good is there.
You can get an old big sky for less than $400 now, so that’s what I did. I do think it sounds significantly better than my HX stomp and even better than my h9, but definitely don’t need it unless you’re a pro or a reverb connoisseur. It was definitely worth it to me.
I looked at an HX One and thought it was over priced compared to a Stomp. Then I looked at some Strymons and bought an HX One. Both make more sense to me than $300 drive pedals that can be built with $20 of parts.
I feel like part of the problem is that the average musician knows that even with inflation, the price of technology should always be lowering, and the dsp chipsets being used in these units are years, in most cases many years old. Processing power is the one thing that goes down yearly even with the staggering inflation rate. Those savings should be used to keep prices reasonable for the average consumer, I do understand the r&d part but let’s be realistic does the new strymon big sky really have anything crazy the old one couldn’t do. 679$ is only the right price if we all say it is.
Muddy Waters used the best effects and latest technology available to him - reportedly the first use of an outboard DeArmond trem unit was on one of his early records. Same with Jimi - it may not seem like he used a lot of effects, but he used 75% of what was available to guitarists in 1968, and was still pushing the envelope in 1970. Honestly, I think if he was alive today his pedalboard would look like Vernon Reid's. This was an interesting video: ua-cam.com/video/nGuQe5E_0_g/v-deo.html
@@tomattah_ Ha! I could be wrong. It was a throw away line. There are so many great records with players using little or no effects including Albert Collins, BB, Albert and Freddie King, Buddy Guy etc. up until recently Robben Ford played with little more than reverb and I’ve been listening again to George Benson. Breezin’ has some of the best guitar sounds and it is a Gibson Johnny Smith straight into an amp. Recordings have studio compression EQ and reverb on hand of course.
Man you must be looking at some special vintage gear nerd stuff, that's not usual Uni-Vibe prices. I got a Fulltone DejaVibe for like 300€ but there's also Jam Pedals Retrovibe, DryBell Vibe Machine, JHS Unicorn, EHX Good Vibes and many more which all got EXP in and are much cheaper
@@Zwidawurzn I want a Uni-Vibe with deep and watery throb and that has a speed expression pedal capabilities where the preamp is on but the effect is off in the heel cocked position of the speed expression pedal, like the original Uni-Vibe. Most people don't make this. R Weaver fx makes this upon request and it's over $500. Pedal Pawn makes this and it's about $800 so I, who live in the USA, would pay that plus customs fees. The Horrothia Berkeley is like $600 after taxes but it doesn't sound that good. Argenziano makes 2 versions and these are $700+ plus customs fees. The only one I could think that might make this upon request and relatively cheap is JAM Pedals but why special order something when Pedal Pawn is really the best option? I buy from a USA dealer their V2 Gypsy Vibe for around $500-$600 and then spend about $260 on the expression pedal directly from them. And hope it doesnt get damaged on the way here from the UK.
@@abelwritesmusic That's proper special vintage gear nerd stuff, you clearly don't want just any UniVibe. I mean Gypsy Vibe with original expression pedal is an investment and only for real vibe enthusiasts but i think if you're certain about it it's better to spend the money instead of messing around with "cheaper" ones which don't really do the thing you want.
@@Zwidawurzn I've a V1 Pedal Pawn Gypsy Vibe. I've compared it to a Cornerstone Aquarium and a Fulltone Mini Deja Vibe and I did hear a very audible difference. To my ears, the Pedal Pawn V1 had a truly authentic sound like what you hear in the Hendrix recordings. A Fulltone may sound good in a mix but in live sound there is a considerable audible difference. I think the Pedal Pawn should be more expensive because of this but not $200 to $300 more. The recent inflation has thrown everything out of order.
Economists would theorise that as a market grows, it fragments. Fragmentation leads to more choice for consumers, and more competition. It also means there is no clear market leader. It is no surprise there is a market for premium products, just as there is for value products. Having a diverse competitive guitar tech industry has to be a sign of maturity, which seems positive 🤔
Gear is really expensive. I've come to this realization and I've sold all the guitars I don't need, keeping 3 guitars and 2 basses, and am selling all my amps because my Helix will do everything they can do. The challenge is being and finding ways to stay content with the gear I have.
It's like anything else, a price point. I'm happy with a spring tank or at worst a holy grail reverb, I do have a hall of fame 2 here but it's not mine and I don't bother with it. Tone matters, technique matters, performance matters; whether your reverb cost $70 or $700 matters to nobody but you. I have a love/hate relationship with wet effects. My board has 7 drives, a wah and a 1981 stereo memory man dialed in to a very subtle chorus or delay when I need one but usually chorus, and I mean very. subtle. It's mostly there to split my signal, add a touch of ear candy with its magical preamp, and give me the slightest hint of stereo separation. So my one wet effect serves more as a splitter and preamp than anything lol But I use both onboard reverbs in the amps though, also dialed in subtle. Point is, reverb can be and often is a crutch. Have you ever tried NO reverb? I play through the plexi all the time, and it's probably the funnest of all if you're good. That's just it: it MAKES you not have to be AS GOOD if you MUST have reverb.
I think the problem is a more basic one. Social media has a distortion effect on expectations. When I started playing back in the 1980s, effects of this quality were only available as rack units and they were priced out of the market for anyone who wasn’t a pro. Fourty years later it’s become cheap enough that people seem to think they should be accessible to everyone. Forgetting that these are high-end, professional grade products. …and their cost will (and should) reflect that reality.
@@Tigermaster1986 Because of value. In audio, once you reach a certain point, incremental gains in quality require geometric increases in production cost. We have become so spoiled that we have lost sight of this. People start acting as if the only limits are their desires and their imagination. The world does not work that way.
@@Tigermaster1986 Then go back and read-read it. The more it costs a company to make (and these days service) a product. The more they need to charge for it. The smaller the market for the (premium) product, the more they need to charge for it. The fact is that entry-level gear today sounds and performs better than professional gear did 20 years ago. But there are real world limitations both in terms of what is technically feasible, and what is economically reasonable. TLDR: No one is going to sell you a Bricasti reverb for $600 (try $7000). They will lose money on that deal. Just like no one is going to sell me a Ferrari (a 750 hp, hand built, street legal race car) for $30K.
Off topic maybe. During covid I could sell gear on Kijij or Facebook market place for a decent return, and fast but now I can not sell anything even after numerous price drops. I am not going to give away my gear at a significant loss. I'd rather just keep it.
If you look at it as your ambient instrument maybe but that costs more than my Charvel San Dimas did a few months ago. Not a huge reverb or delay guy but I'm taking the San Dimas in any possible situation. I'd consider paying $700 for Brad Paisleys solo tone at the AMA 50th inside of an amp though lol
here's the problem... why would someone pay (where I'm from) 1150$ for reverb and another $1k for delay for two good pedals...when they can pay an extra 150$ and get a quad cortex or other modeler and have much more than just delay and reverb! so no it does not make any sense any more to pay those prices for a single effect. The problem with that pedal too is that it's limited as the top left dial has only so many choices. If they had made the choices on screen and pumped in some new reverbs now and then with firmware upgrades... maybe more enticing... but I won't go near a 1150$ reverb pedal at all!! I think they will see that they are starting to price themselves out of their own market and maybe R&D might take up lots of cost.... the material itself is not that costly!!! just go see on pedal building websites which are prices probably higher than what strymon pays for their parts and it's cheap!!
Has a pretty healthy mix of cheap pedals- e.g. Joyo, Behringer- "workhorse" brands like Boss and EHX, and boutique, higher end stuff. I don't feel like I overpaid for any of it but no way am I paying $600 for a reverb. That's insane.
In the US, we have seen 44% inflation since 2010. Something that cost $100 in 2010 now would cost $144. Even since 2020 inflation has been 22%, so $100 in 2020 would now be $121. So $400 in 2020 would be $487 now.
It doesn’t really matter, all that matters is what inspires you to play and makes you happy; whether it’s cheap or expensive depends on the size of your wallet!! Also, if you bought a big sky when it first came out and it’s still going and you still love it then that’s actually pretty good value for money, more so if you gig and earn money from its use.
I've had a Big Sky since the launch and like it. I may grab a Cloudburst at some point - I'd rather have it as a standalone unit because I see it more as a synth pad effect. I think Strymon make great stuff - like the Flint & Deco - but in a way I'd rather have a smaller, simpler unit that does one thing well rather than too much in a box . . . but that's just me, I don't like spending a lot of time programming, certainly not a fan of multi-fx stuff. (I was playing when the MXR Phase 90 hit the market!)
Strymon MX owner here. I play purely as a hobbyist and purchased the pedal because I generally love reverb (and have adult money). The pedal is absolutely amazing but honestly, the pedal is overpriced and overkill for someone that has limited time.
I think you've likely hit the nail on the head about people with day jobs buying these. If I had to guess, the target demographics are church guitarists and basement guitarists funding their hobby with a non-musician job. As you've said in the past, many gigging musicians are likely running Boss gear and the like cause it gets the job done and they can just roll up to Guitar Center and replace the exact sound if they really need to.
I’d like to think that the bean counters at Strymon have calculated the minuscule number of potential customers and are building accordingly. I don’t imagine even a handful of pros will buy this. I don’t care what it sounds like with a price like that.
I would like a demo of the super fancy expensive against a moderate price and a super cheap alternative (zoom, Joyo, etc) Better, make the test blind or reverse (playing the cheap and showing the expensive) at the start of the video. That way we would know the truth
I buy just basic stuff because I'm not comfortable with buying the expensive gear , but if some people have the money and want to buy it, let them enjoy ;)
Everything went up after COVID... But it is also a reality guitar gear went up significantly more than other items. What is more impressive is than today is cheaper more than ever to build high quality gear. There are a lot of brands as Hotone, Mooer, Nux, etc in pedals and look how many guitars you can find with stainless steel Frets and locking tuners around $200. Yes, they do exist. So high prices in gear.. are mostly just greedyness.
Its like any product. There are those brands which are just more expensive. Now are they actually 'better'? Or does their higher price automatically make you think they must be better? Some brands position themselves higher priced to make it less affordable. Which in turn makes it sort of...an exclusive...item. Which then can make it even more desirable.
A pedalboard full of Strymon is a big sign your dad owns a car dealership. It’s the millennial/gen z version of the blues lawyer with a Gibson Les Paul
The price of digital pedals are now outweighing their utility. I sold most of mine, I’d rather stare at an iPad than a tiny screen and get better results in logic.
I think the real question is whether or not the average salary in a first world country has kept up with inflation and do we have as much discretionary spending ability. That may be the root of why people are complaining about gear costing over $500.00. Then again, there’s a lot of gear from China under $20.00 that wasn’t available in the past.
The main difference between you and me, is that; you do this for a living. You make money of reviewing gear, and you use it for your work. I don't make any money from music. I get no returns on buying gear. It's a pure luxury purchase for my hobby. So when the price of all the necessities for living has gone up 30-50%, but wages stand still, the first thing that stops are purchases like this. I thought about buying one of these when the economy was better, but now I have to spend it on food and normal stuff instead. I don't care if the price is adjusted for inflation. It used to be difficult to afford, but now it’s not even an option I would consider. So companies can say all they want that inflation is why the price is high, but I'm still not going to buy it. If you jack up the price when people can barely afford rent and food, and they have much less to spend at the end of the month; nobody is going to buy it. I literally can’t.... so it's just out of the question and I have to look for something else that's cheaper.. And now that plugins and other stuff has gotten really good for decent prices, it can't really be justified even if I could afford it…If I can’t sound good without a $700 reverb, then the reverb is not the problem.
The option for "home gamers" or hobbiest is the huge influx of plugins, and maybe one decent "buy once, cry once" interface purchase. I personally got a focusrite 18i20, and then, when Im not using my real amps - Im using all the IO and daw to try out tons of plugins. Yes, its not all in one easy package...but if you get your DAW and plugins setup in an easy format, and setup DAW projects likes "presets" - theres a plethora of things out there a DL away.
Ive even done thing like run my interface in "4 cable method" and running plugin preamps to real power amp and then guitar cab. Skys the limit when you have the time and creativity...and you're not tied up with having to move your gear/computer around since well - you're not gigging! lol
I struggle with this argument because IME most full-time musicians do not make enough from music to justify a $400+ delay pedal. How many gig nights of work is that unless you're a top session guy? The only people I know with high end pedals are people with white collar careers that play music as a hobby, all the full-time musicians I know play garden-variety Boss, Ibanez, etc. effects or stuff in that ballpark.
@Lavabug HVAC/maintenance technician here. I make a lot of money at what I do and spend it on guitar stuff. I don't spend money on alcohol, cigarettes, or video games. I'm not into cars, or anything else but guitar and piano so it frees up money for purchases like this.
@@gwynbleiddroach2589 good for you! (My template is similar and now that the kid's are out of college, more gets poured in, without too much irritation to my wife LOL).*Almost* done with my home studio.
Bingo!
I've got a Hotone Ampero Mini that I bought second hand from eBay for £100.
I watch content and read about great and expensive gear, both modelling and analogue effects - but I have to constantly remind myself that my little modeller and multi-effects is actually adequate for my current needs, even if there are better options out there.
Music gear content does a good job of trying to convince you that you need more expensive stuff, and it's a constant mental battle to resist!
I find that with gear there’s two considerations for the price. First, will people listening notice a difference, and second, will I notice a difference that inspires me to play. There’s diminishing returns on both of those as prices go up, the first sooner. I don’t think anyone’s going to be listening to something saying “wow that’s a $700 reverb sound right there, you can really tell.” Fair enough, but is it worth it to me as a player/producer? I love reverb, but to be honest this isn’t going to give me sounds that drastically greater or even more unique than what I already have to make it worth that much to me. Even if I have a lot more disposable income line day, I really don’t see myself buying a $700 reverb pedal. Honestly, they should’ve made it a rack unit, not a pedal.
Form factor. Very few people use rack effects these days. Especially guitarists.
Plugins are cheaper and easier in the studio. Pedals and profilers/modelers are easier and cheaper to use live.
UA-camr influencers is not an inherently shameful job.
However it is 2024 and the guitar community needs to mature and actually acknowledge that it is all part of a colossal wild consumerism
They are just making infomercials made to sell gear.
That’s it.
The public benefits by seeing new products etc etc. the gear company benefits by getting an immense cheap marketing push they couldn’t have dreamed of pre- UA-cam- just for the paltry cost of units they send out for the infomercials.
The influencers benefit by establishing their business and getting free gear.
The problem is that it encourages tremendous GAS, and I’m certain that there is a sizeable percentage of guitar players who watch more gear infomercials, lust after gear etc than they do actually playing the guitar.
Yep, 99% of "Guitar" videos on youtube are thinly veiled adds for gear. It is what it is I guess.
@@darekpeszt3640even the lessons are just ads for lesson courses and the few people actually teaching on UA-cam get no views. It’s a shame. I’m starting to really dislike guitar UA-cam.
@@darekpeszt3640 Last I checked, no one was trying to veil it. All the folks I follow are very up front about the gear they're being paid to demo - it's a service that exists to help players who are looking for gear make decisions based on actual usage. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything *shrug*
@@misterknightowlandco this is the other problem! (First is the outrageous GAS culture etc)
The people who make actual instructional videos get essentially zero views compared to the people making infomercials, so they inevitably stop as it requires significant amount of work and effort to do instructional videos.
Unless they do it as a labour of love but that’s an unrealistic expectation as ppl have jobs and lives etc etc
So we are left with the guitar UA-cam community really just being about gear companies pushing out products to the influencers to do infomercials with and us all consuming it
On the other hand, it’s up to the viewers to actually support the UA-camrs who make instructional videos, the the insidious thing is- the dopamine hit from gear infomercials is WAY WAY stronger than any hit from learning, so it’s difficult
@@40WattPodcast I am not saying this. I clearly state how it benefits the UA-camr (views/money/business/free gear), the viewer (learn about new gear, learn about useful products), and the gear companies (absurdly cheap marketing reach just for product samples- the UA-cam influencers are their independent contractors who act as their marketing team!)
This is all true.
The ‘meta’ issue is it feeds outrageous consumerism and GAS and can potentially sidetrack people etc etc
Nobody is dying and there are clearly worse things in the world and people’s lives- just a pretty valid observation and something to think about in my mind anyway.
Biggest issues is what Lukather talked about in his instructional vid - ie why would a guitar player need a studio quality reverb for live playing? It's lost on everybody bar the guy playing, the audience won't care, so why bust the bank on a 700 quid pedal when you can get everything you need and more in an HX Fx for the same of not less
UA-camrs: receiving high-end gear for free and advertise it.
Players: purchasing Mooer analog pedals, Nux modelling stomps and Valeton processors.
@@Theliraan Nothing wrong with that if you can afford it…need it… or both.
@@kellygreenii I don't need both, I use FM3 now. So yep, that was the problem: it's very easy to dive into rabbit hole of pedals
@@Theliraan the rabbit hole can take people away from actually playing which is pretty ironic
The HX Stomp has good enough Reverbs and Delays that are good and will solve 99% of what guitarist need - unless you really are a big Strymon fan boy - these are just unwanted luxuries, yeah good to have them, but you really don't need them, the bread and butter is all there in the HX Stomp - this is expensive Jam that you probably don't need. How many agree?🙂
Have both. HX Stomp is fantastic. BigSky is bit more airy when you use it, but difference is so small.
I believe that Strymon use some eq tweaks for their algos because with guitar it sounds spacy - not like any other (even high price) reverb.
But yeah, for money HX Stomp has very few competitors (Ampero Stomp, Boss GT1000 Core maybe and used FM3).
The recent updates to the algorithms have been excellent. It is now a situation where it frees blocks to use my other pedals.
Love the Big Sky don’t get me wrong - but I think John hit the nail on the head: if the audience can tell the big sky from the HX, you’re using too much!
I've gone full circle and come back to Boss pedals. They're affordable, sound fantastic...heck a lot of the boutique offerings are clones of the old Boss classics anyway. Also, I can't imagine getting a beer spilled on my Big Sky MX at a bar gig.
How "special" does a reverb sound when you're playing with a load of other noisy musicians?
Post covid inflation has really done a number on gear prices.
Been touring extensively for the last two years and the biggest lesson I’ve learned is that the most beneficial thing you can do with your money is buy the cheapest gear that’ll make you happy and make your show better.
Also make sure you take the time to learn your gear.
Good luck to all my fellow musicians 🎸
Pedal makers are completely crazy there days.
If they relic-ed the case they can justify whatever price they want to charge because, as the Fender Custom Shop will tell you, guitarists are prepared to pay pretty much anything for stuff that looks old.
Folk need to keep their wallets in their pockets for a year or three to reset the system.
I kept my wallet in my pocket for 20. the only way to beat inflation is to spend your money before its value evaporates, or invest. buy 2nd hand, let someone else take the depreciation and use your money well, while its still worth something
Over here, I'm still using the Line6 M13 for all my effects...
Solid!
Tom Bukovac uses the M9.
I’ve been trying to point this out for years now. When companies like Victory release new amps that cost £5k just for the head, that will take 100% of my pub gigging money for over 6 months!!!
I was so stunned when I saw the prices of the new Victory amps I actually thought I had misread it, but no, it’s really 5k😵💫. I bought a V40 Duchess when it came out in 2017 and while it’s a ‘good’ amp , and I’ve done loads of gigs with it, it’s not a ‘great’ amp - my Dr Z Maz Jr was so much better but way heavier and less practical. The Duchess now costs £1300 which for me is still too much…
Most purchased pedalboard gear ends up sitting in a box somewhere in your garage. Personally, I'm not overpaying. When a new video pops up, I go straight to the price of the product and either immediately dump the demo or watch it if I can afford it. It really doesn't matter how interesting it is if it's out of reach for me.
I own a Strymon Volante and let me tell you this... 1) If I had not of been made redundant from my job of 12 years {not music related} & 2) had I of not found one in a reasonable pre-owned condition for a "reasonable" price; I would not own a single Strymon pedal because of the price of entry being so darn high 😂
Strymon doesn't have their own factory where they make these things. They use contract manufacturers. Those contract manufacturers have MASSIVE buying power. So, in effect, Strymon has MASSIVE buying power. So there's no reason for these things to cost what they cost. The components in them are inexpensive. I don't mind paying for R&D it took to come up with this idea. But there's no way this thing has more than $100 in raw materials. And that's probably high by 1.5-2x.
@@keithbenedict8764 Nonsense on stilts. R&D costs. Manufacturing costs. Transportation costs. Marketing costs. Service/support costs.
Oh, and then there is profit. Investors expect to be rewarded for risking their money in meeting those upfront costs.
TLDR. You aren’t paying for the materials. You are paying for the knowledge to turn those parts into high quality finished products. You are paying for access to the resources (and risk tolerance) needed to produce them in bulk.
If you think you can do it for less? Go for it and let the better, most competitively priced product win.
Bingo. Go buy something hand assembled in-house and help local dude pay their bills.
@@RealFitchEmerson Since I'm just a home hobbyist, that kind of thing is overkill for me and WAY out of budget. I'm happy with my Line 6 Catalyst and a bunch of pedals.
Well, the components they use are actually pretty damn expensive. The chips aren't your average Belton brick or spin FV-1, in terms of DSP there's probably a 40/50$ worth chip in there, I'd say 100$ in raw materials is almost conservative considering quality is their thing. This is not your average overpriced two transistor fuzz pedal.
I think this argument should go more towards the 300€ overdrive pedals, not gonna throw names but you know there are quite a few like these.
In any case raw materials are really a small part of the expense here, they need to pay workers fairly, keep up their websites, pay taxes, marketing, their distributors, the designers, get custom enclosures and paints, pay the engineers who keep doing R&D for FW updates and future pedals...
I understand these prices are crazy (I only own their power supply tbh and it is new technology) but I understand also the difficulty of keeping up a niche business like this and the costs are just as high for them.
Gonna go a bit on a tangent here but we gotta realise that the mad inflation has been killing the middle class, and these are supposed to be middle class products, not "I'm a dentist and still can't afford one" kind of products.
@@noisebrick9248 The DSP that Helix has is $20 when bought in quantities of 1,000. I'm sure Line 6 is buying them in quantities much greater than 1,000, but the point remains. DSP chips are cheap. Very cheap.
You can hand that knife in at the next amnesty ! Also I don't have 700 quid to spare on gear.
I think the interesting point in this is the "relative to wages" because we all bemoan the cost of things, everything is too expensive, and yes various industries (notably the ones required to simply live like food & housing) are intentionally gouging us. Guitar stuff isn't (with the possible exception of Fender). You want to be able to afford a Strymon BigSky MX, take to the streets & demand better wages & fairer wealth distribution.
@@GitShiddy fair enough. I don’t think it’s unfair for them to price however they want, it’s just not worth it to me at that price, so I can go without. If too many people think the same, that presents a problem for them.
This might be heresy to some. But if your an intermediate to advanced intermediate guitarist who gigs off and on, your probably better off with a Sire guitar, PodGo and a subscription to truefire than boutique pedals and a custom shop guitar.
Amen!
with my respect to strymon, and i do love the big sky for years, after comparing both, i think the MX wasn't such a big jump from the old big sky.
beside that, i think their pricing especially the big sky plugin is insane.
as good as this reverb is, 200$ for a plugin that use the same algorithm they used for 12 years in pedal form is pricey.
Valhalla has free or inexpensive plugins that do wonderful reverbs and delays.
Tbh, I just can't justify spending upwards of 600 dollars on a single reverb pedal when my guitars and my NUX MG-300 processor combined cost less than that and fulfill all my needs as a bedroom guitarist.
Also, in general, I've noticed that UA-cam guitarfluencers (not you specifically, though) love to slap the label "affordable" to anything that costs less than a used car. I don't like this. When you can buy a perfectly decent Harley Benton for about 150 euros - or less, an 800 dollar guitar is not affordable. When you can buy a NUX MG-300 for 120 euros, another processor that costs five times as much is not affordable, even if there are processors like the Quad Cortex that cost a whole lot more.
And so on, and so forth.
Drives me mad when youtubers call a $200-300 delay pedal "affordable". Like wtf do you spend on groceries?
If you can get people to buy your stuff at inflated prices then go for it. You will always get the 'shinny' brigade claiming they have it on pre-order and it is worth it. Most multi-effect pedals can do what this does and more. Nobody is gong to tell what is being played live or in a mix. But I guess the 'game-changer' crowd has more money than sense. R&D for these pedals have been done years ago so it just getting free cash from people who must have the latest.
Great video! I work in a music store in New Zealand and we are always punished by exchange rate anyway, but music gear has inflated beyond reason. Even with the healthy discount I get being an employee wages have just not kept up to the point where I can’t afford to buy most of the gear I’m interested in, other than consumables.
Prices go up until no one can afford them and then companies take a nose dive when they can't produce unlimited growth. Though I'm sure the people with money for a Strymon MX pedal don't see this as such a big deal. I just don't think cost wise they are practical for us more budget conscious customers. It's like a high end sports car or meal at a fancy restaurant. They aren't aimed at people who need to see the price tag. But I have to say that when a single pedal is reaching the cost of a guitar that's pretty nuts.
When I listen to people playing and I think "I really love what this guy (gal) is doing" it almost never has anything to do with the pedals they're using. It has to do with the song they're playing and their arrangement or the composition of the song. Maybe if there was more focus on the writing and playing part and less on the gadgets maybe the music would get better.
This is why plugins are so popular, hardware is becoming too expensive.
IMO something like a basic VST loader that can load something like Helix Native/captures/neural dsp plugins and is small enough to put in a pedalboard (I’ve seen some starting to pop around) should give most multifx pedals a run for the money. Once it’s a cheap type of product made by Chinese companies, it’s over.
Only those who really “”need”” extremely high DSP chains will use something like a Fractal
You nailed all of the points. The funniest part of the new Big Sky pedal costing even more money, is that I actually generally prefer the sounds in the older unit when compared. A nice piece of gear, but I could never ever see myself spending that much for a single pedal with a single effect. I bought a used TimeLine for a few hundred and that was pushing the bank. I was able to get a similar deal on a NightSky reverb. They were purchased years apart AND things happened to line up right, or I could not have bought them. I could not imagine buying all of these units new.
If I can't afford it, I either save up, or just don't buy it. When I was gigging I played a used Mexican Fender Strat and a Marshall valve state along with a couple of boss pedals. I had a great time, the punters had a laugh and a dance and enjoyed the show.
Today if I was starting out again I'd probably be playing a Jet guitar into a Boss Katana amp, arguably both better quality than what I had back then and possibly cheaper too.
The options are out there still. You really don't need a two rock amp with a custom shop guitar into three grands worth of pedals. It's nice if you can afford it, but really not a requirement.
Is not only guitar gear. We can see the same happening with other industries (e.g., 2500 for a graphic cards unit)
Camera industry too
A $700 reverb pedal is a luxury item to me. I would rather spend that $700 (or less) on a multi-effects (like the Fractal VP4 or TC Plethora X5) and use it with a tube amp or ToneX and have a great-sounding, compact, and affordable rig (the older I get, the less gear I want to haul to gigs.) Or put that $700 towards a great guitar. Still, if a huge $4000 pedalboard makes you happy and you have the disposable funds, go for it. No rules. You do you. Just remember to practice guitar between tweaking gear. 🤣
I bought my Bongo 5HH for $2000 in 2017 and had to sell it. Now they're $3000 and I'm a father as well. I can't buy it back at this point and honestly I've found my Sire gear to be perfect for my needs now that I'm not taking my gear out seven nights a week.
I have the Sire L7,they make nice guitars.
I don't really see the problem. There are more gear manufacturers than ever (especially pedals) creating more competition than ever. You can get incredible stuff from Behringer, TC, JHS or even Chinese for very little money. Other companies like Strymon, Meris and Fractal cater to a different part of the market which is great for all who want it, but honestly, nobody needs studio quality for a noisy gig, and for recording you can just use plugins. One of the best reverb plugs is even free but if you absolutely must gig with the highest time effects, get a Specular Tempus. According to a real expert like Benn Jordan you can't get much better algorithms than that anyway. It's a great time to be a guitar player (except for gigs though).
The biggest problem I see is the inherent planned obsolescence in much of the modern gear and the desire for players to try and keep up with the technology. There is TONS of used gear out there that pro players have used for decades to create awesome music, but the pull of “the shiny new thing” for too many players is becoming a black hole for the wallet. There has never been a better time to get good “budget” gear, but too many players feel the need to validate their playing ability with top-of-the-line gear. If you can afford the newest toys, fine, but if not….find the thing that does what you need on the less expensive side and just PLAY!
How could anyone keep up with all this everyday gear purchases.
I've been in the "cheaper pedal that does the thing" club for a long time. But it's a false economy. A month later when I want the "other thing" the cheap one doesn't do it and I'm on the hunt for yet another cheaper pedal. Fixed all that with a newly acquired Quad Cortex. I think there's three pedals out of about 30 that I will keep, mostly for sentimental reasons. In three weeks I'm still being amazed what can be achieved with the QC and uncovering features and combinations of features that will keep me creatively happy for a very long time.
Good points you’ve made. I’m not sure how we get the gig wages to go up??
The majority of muses who buy gear don't make money from their music. Ironically, it's this demographic who keep companies like Strymon alive. That's why companies like Strymon spend so much on advertising, both in magazines and social media. Overpriced? Yes, I think so. But these companies price their products at a price they think the market can stand....... Roland reps used to show us new product at trade shows, and ask us dealers what we thought it should be priced at........ When you gave them what you thought was a fair retail price, they usually retorted with an intended target retail price of double that....... they always aim high.
One issue is not just the price, but resale value as well. For example a 1965 Blackface Fender amp is worth 10 times what it sold for 50 years ago. In 5 years from now a digital piece of gear can be worthless. No one wants what could be considered obsolete gear. That makes it a harder decision to pay big dollars for a piece of gear today, that you know will devalue as much as 80 percent a few short years down the road
I think you pegged me in that second group of people. I’m a doctor and I make a good living. I have some expendable income and I love all this guitar gear. I bought a bigsky Mx and it’s great. But I really just write, record and play at home in a bedroom studio. I’m feeling a little guilty and maybe I should sell some of this gear and save the money. Tbh I feel like I can get fairly similar tones with my hx stomp
Great points.
I think there is consumism in music as it is in fashion or consumer electronics. We have great music throughout the history and none of it benefited from the nowadays technology, and it is not because of that that is bad.
This to say, that I think the new gear comes in two logics:
Try to inovate and offer something different to the consumer that set it appart from the competition, while allowing the musician to also create something new;
Create a need in the consumer that is not real. Brands often times create solutions to problems that don't exist.
This being said, I think there are two types of consumers for music products.
The professionals and particularly the giging musicians who don't care so much about the latest product but rather something that they know and can rely on. If we watch for most of the boards of our favourite artist we will se mainly well established products.
The other type of consumer is the bedroom artist or more amatourish who doesn't live from music, and do this as an hobbie. I think many of the YT content on new products and even some of the procuts are to this person. This is the person that will indulge himself in buying the last pedal in the market.
A pedal like the strymon bigsky in a band setting only makes sense in specific types of music, more experimental and ambient stuff and even there, when you put together the other band elements, the fact that every venue has different accoustics, the fact that many venues are actually shitty, and have bad electricity, crowd noise and so on, typically a cheaper reverb will be enough, even if it doesn't have the same algorithms, most of the people will not notice.
In conclusion, besides their utility, which of course they have, I think this type of gear is mostly for our own enjoyment, which is totally fine.
Maybe the exception is when it is used in a production setting, where in the past the producer needed to have rack gear or chain different type of devices and now, it can have it in a pedal format.
Disagree. Music has greatly benefited from technology. The problem is that the recording industry is dying because it failed to adapt to streaming and other forms of digital delivery.
So they are bankrolling the use of this tech in really uncreative ways.
@@kellygreenii what I meant is that without the today's technology musicians were always able to do good music. The digital technology of the 80's cannot be compared to the one used in 2024, and 80's are a decade full of great music even for the today standards.
So the idea that we need the newest device as the missing piece in our rig, is an ilusion. A fun ilusion, but an ilusion.
@@ricardofarinha8922 Missing the point. Technology is a tool. Tools expand what we are capable of.
The reason why today’s music is stale is because record labels fumbled the digital revolution tried to protect an obsolete and exploitative business model instead of evolving.
Now they are extremely risk-averse and the music the publish (pop) is formulaic and repetitive. The 80s were the last decade where labels took chances on fresh sounds.
Which is why you struggle to hear the difference between most music made in the 90s, and what gets made today.
Not the fault of the tools. Fault of the gatekeepers.
I think the price increase is tied to research and development and the feature set of the newer unit.
The Strymon BigSky reverb pedal was released in late 2013 (Premier Guitar) with a retail price of $479 (Amazon). As of October 2024, the BigSky is still priced at $479 (Strymon), indicating that its price has remained stable over the years despite general inflation. Recently, Strymon introduced the BigSky MX, an updated version with additional features, priced at $679 (Sweetwater).
Looking forward to the Halloween episode where John severs several fingers with that machete trying to get into a pedal box 😆 I wince every time it comes out!
I think it's quite clever of Strymon. The MX series pricing seems to be their way of not annoying customers by devaluing their existing pedals too much and also not upgrading that much to make their main pedals obsolete. You can still sell your big sky for a decent price which benefits anyone upgrading and also new customers who worry about losing resale value when shelling out 700 quid.
I flicked through alot of comments and didn’t see this mentioned (im sure someone has)
I know some pretty big dealers in the guitar market and i can tell you the uptake on finance wether its klarna etc or traditional finance is MASSIVE. Its a huge part of whats enabled gear to rise above and beyond inflation in the high end market. Its consumerism/capitalism. Fact is, YOU have a choice of great budget gear too, you have a choice who you watch and what you think of them, so in the end its no big deal in my view.
Plus things find there actual value on the used market where your money is safer and goes further (80% or more of my gear is used)
Haven’t seen shoes like that for years..
Absolutely confirm that professional gear and even mid-tier products are expensive for the average muzo. What I noticed is that part time guitarists that have day-jobs are actually those that are spending big bucks on gear. There is a also perception that if you have high value gear, it makes you a “better” musician which is not the case - so what I’m saying it is a “status thing” to have expensive gear and perhaps some brands are exploiting this. I have learnt that you can get “by” with less expensive gear and even outperform someone using more expensive gear!. Just because you are playing ‘59 Les Paul doesn’t mean anything musically….
I've had my Big Sky for nearly a decade. It works flawlessly. It was expensive when I bought it, and I could probably sell it for about $250 right now. Absolutely worth it because I use the hell out of it. Good stuff is expensive. Cars, watches, TVs, computers...whatever. If you think it's too much, but a less expensive alternative. For anything Chase Bliss or Strymon make, there will be a NuX or Mooer coming out right behind it.
Im usually very mean to other musos especially gear addicts but I really enjoy this type of content that you do. My story is a bit sad/lame. 19 years and owned more gear than most and I still can’t play smoke on the water. I’d urge caution to folks about buying expensive gear because there isn’t much value in it. I thought I was chasing something that was left field until I got older and realised I was just part of a capitalism clusterfudge during say 2005-2015 when gear was peaking. I even got my first guitar (proper one) from ISHIBASHI in Japan! Online! I called them via “the home phone” 😂 it’s wild to think now that I would’ve been a handful of people doing risky stuff that early on. But all of that never amounted to anything musically. And I was never in my bedroom weeping. I was out with the “cool kids” who played major gigs. I was out with around “it” but it still wasn’t enough to urge me to want to actually learn. Not that I didn’t try… but what you should take from all of this is my first run Danocaster Jazzmaster through my Swart ASAT and a vintage board worth thousands never made me a better player. If they did? They would have.
Aaaand if you don’t think it’ll happen to you? It will 😂
Before the HX Stomp came out I had a very large pedalboard. I had two Strymon pedals at a combined cost of around $800. I now only need the Stomp to get the same wet effects that are every bit as good as the two Strymons. I did get some good use out of those pedals, but the Helix models override any need for them now. And my pedalboard is so much smaller😊
I hate to say this but I do think that for some people what is written on headstock/stomp box etc can make them _think_ it sounds better.
Pedals used to go for between $50-$100. I bought a 1978 jmp Marshall head for $400. Times have changed.
I’m happier when I just play. I do half of that unplugged. Only a handful of companies justify the expense. Chase Bliss is at the top of the list for me. They actually do the R&D and push to make new things noone else can. Again, agree on the HX Stomp which holds up amazingly for value / utility.
I think it's just tough because the music industry is the one place where you can tell a big difference between pro and casual gear, and players at those levels. In the last 5 years, it's gotten harder tho, cheap gear can be very good noow. But just like with anything, the prmoise of expensive gear making you better is tempting, and with music, it's just within reach. Anything to cut down the learning curve. I think strymon is just for pros, but they obviously need casual buyers, and that promise of a strymon pedal making you better is something the internet created. That's why it's nuts, if everyone talked about the Tone City pedals and didn't constantly mention that they're budget friendly, people would believe their performance more, but they look at them as cheap
Have the musicians‘ fees also increased accordingly?
Comparisons to Helix and Fractal reverbs would be nice to see.
I’m surprised JNC doesn’t mention 0% financing schemes. I believe that is the only thing keeping this industry afloat.
Musical gear has always been expensive, but during 21st century it has become more affordable for the masses due to cheap manufacturing in China and Indonesia. This is why Line 6 can sell their boxes for so much less compared to those built in the US and EU.Value is also dependent on the user. Some see great value in buying a stupidly priced Ibanez TS10 (they were cheap crap in the 90s)or a Klon but balk at paying more than £50 for a delay pedal.Others would spend £5000 on a guitar and pair it with a crappy amp. The fact is we have the choice to spend money how we wish.
Sometimes when im out at a gig and i look at a guitarists gear on stage like guitar pedalboard amp etc i think to myself "wow, theres enough money spent there for a deposit on a house, maybe pedalboard alone!"
I always base the “price” based on its Boss equivalent, then what else does it do for cost features. A Boss Ds-1 does the job for 89$ Canadian what does the pedal do to justify its cost over that?
Like all things in life, value proposition tends to be described in expense vs income return, because we all think about income too much. Value is also the smile something brings to our faces when we save hard and buy the thing we’ve wanted for a long time. Of course value in monetary terms is important, but some people’s value is different to another’s, hence the argument of a cheaper pedal having 95% of the great tone of one priced 10 times more.
I've only been playing for 2 years so I'm really in learning mode. There is a LOT to learn about gear, so I've opted for the Spark2 amp from Positive Grid. Provides a platform for practice and learning amp and pedal settings to explore and learn to create the sounds I want. I'll probably settle on a Helix or FMX or QC, but my skills will take several more years to reach the point where one of those products make sense. And forget buying tons of pedals in the mean time. Maybe you just wanted the capable musicians to respond. ;-)
Who knows but my kneejerk reaction to the price increases after peering into my crystal ball set to idiot level -- sorry but I can't seem to increase the level setting on it -- is that music creation for public not personal entertainment is becoming increasingly exclusive.
And that makes TONS of sense for a world having endured a pandemic if relatively successfully compared to earlier such pandemics -- i.e., when people gather in large numbers they want their shared experience to be worth the risk of having to endure yet another potential pandemic.
And so yes digital signal processing for music will increase in price as the music entertainment industry naturally monopolizes further to survive at least while the social trauma endures.
All I can say is that for those of us who still can afford such luxuries, it's FANTASTIC stuff!
What we're paying for is the overhead and higher wages for design/programming based in the USA/EU, and if manufactured there it adds even more to the cost. I wouldn't say you're getting a ton of an upgrade over a Chinese based company like Mooer, Hotone, Valenton, etc. Since China has had the advantage of already having an established factory providing manufacturing services to these companies, they've had time with these designs and processes so its allowed them to learn and come up with their own competitive products at a much lower cost since they don't have to start from 0 and already have their overhead pretty much covered by the manufacturing alone. So save money? good. Buy and support local economy also good. Just depends on what you value the most. But sound wise, and quality wise I think cheap and good is there.
You can get an old big sky for less than $400 now, so that’s what I did. I do think it sounds significantly better than my HX stomp and even better than my h9, but definitely don’t need it unless you’re a pro or a reverb connoisseur. It was definitely worth it to me.
I looked at an HX One and thought it was over priced compared to a Stomp. Then I looked at some Strymons and bought an HX One. Both make more sense to me than $300 drive pedals that can be built with $20 of parts.
I feel like part of the problem is that the average musician knows that even with inflation, the price of technology should always be lowering, and the dsp chipsets being used in these units are years, in most cases many years old. Processing power is the one thing that goes down yearly even with the staggering inflation rate. Those savings should be used to keep prices reasonable for the average consumer, I do understand the r&d part but let’s be realistic does the new strymon big sky really have anything crazy the old one couldn’t do. 679$ is only the right price if we all say it is.
Muddy Waters wouldn’t buy one.
Muddy Waters used the best effects and latest technology available to him - reportedly the first use of an outboard DeArmond trem unit was on one of his early records. Same with Jimi - it may not seem like he used a lot of effects, but he used 75% of what was available to guitarists in 1968, and was still pushing the envelope in 1970. Honestly, I think if he was alive today his pedalboard would look like Vernon Reid's. This was an interesting video: ua-cam.com/video/nGuQe5E_0_g/v-deo.html
@@tomattah_ Ha! I could be wrong. It was a throw away line. There are so many great records with players using little or no effects including Albert Collins, BB, Albert and Freddie King, Buddy Guy etc. up until recently Robben Ford played with little more than reverb and I’ve been listening again to George Benson. Breezin’ has some of the best guitar sounds and it is a Gibson Johnny Smith straight into an amp. Recordings have studio compression EQ and reverb on hand of course.
Most Uni-Vibes are $600+. Usually $850+ if they have an expression pedal. It is pretty ridiculous.
Man you must be looking at some special vintage gear nerd stuff, that's not usual Uni-Vibe prices. I got a Fulltone DejaVibe for like 300€ but there's also Jam Pedals Retrovibe, DryBell Vibe Machine, JHS Unicorn, EHX Good Vibes and many more which all got EXP in and are much cheaper
@@Zwidawurzn I want a Uni-Vibe with deep and watery throb and that has a speed expression pedal capabilities where the preamp is on but the effect is off in the heel cocked position of the speed expression pedal, like the original Uni-Vibe. Most people don't make this. R Weaver fx makes this upon request and it's over $500. Pedal Pawn makes this and it's about $800 so I, who live in the USA, would pay that plus customs fees. The Horrothia Berkeley is like $600 after taxes but it doesn't sound that good. Argenziano makes 2 versions and these are $700+ plus customs fees. The only one I could think that might make this upon request and relatively cheap is JAM Pedals but why special order something when Pedal Pawn is really the best option? I buy from a USA dealer their V2 Gypsy Vibe for around $500-$600 and then spend about $260 on the expression pedal directly from them. And hope it doesnt get damaged on the way here from the UK.
@@abelwritesmusic That's proper special vintage gear nerd stuff, you clearly don't want just any UniVibe.
I mean Gypsy Vibe with original expression pedal is an investment and only for real vibe enthusiasts but i think if you're certain about it it's better to spend the money instead of messing around with "cheaper" ones which don't really do the thing you want.
@@Zwidawurzn I've a V1 Pedal Pawn Gypsy Vibe. I've compared it to a Cornerstone Aquarium and a Fulltone Mini Deja Vibe and I did hear a very audible difference. To my ears, the Pedal Pawn V1 had a truly authentic sound like what you hear in the Hendrix recordings. A Fulltone may sound good in a mix but in live sound there is a considerable audible difference. I think the Pedal Pawn should be more expensive because of this but not $200 to $300 more. The recent inflation has thrown everything out of order.
Economists would theorise that as a market grows, it fragments. Fragmentation leads to more choice for consumers, and more competition. It also means there is no clear market leader. It is no surprise there is a market for premium products, just as there is for value products. Having a diverse competitive guitar tech industry has to be a sign of maturity, which seems positive 🤔
Gear is really expensive. I've come to this realization and I've sold all the guitars I don't need, keeping 3 guitars and 2 basses, and am selling all my amps because my Helix will do everything they can do. The challenge is being and finding ways to stay content with the gear I have.
It's like anything else, a price point. I'm happy with a spring tank or at worst a holy grail reverb, I do have a hall of fame 2 here but it's not mine and I don't bother with it. Tone matters, technique matters, performance matters; whether your reverb cost $70 or $700 matters to nobody but you. I have a love/hate relationship with wet effects. My board has 7 drives, a wah and a 1981 stereo memory man dialed in to a very subtle chorus or delay when I need one but usually chorus, and I mean very. subtle. It's mostly there to split my signal, add a touch of ear candy with its magical preamp, and give me the slightest hint of stereo separation. So my one wet effect serves more as a splitter and preamp than anything lol But I use both onboard reverbs in the amps though, also dialed in subtle. Point is, reverb can be and often is a crutch. Have you ever tried NO reverb? I play through the plexi all the time, and it's probably the funnest of all if you're good. That's just it: it MAKES you not have to be AS GOOD if you MUST have reverb.
I think the problem is a more basic one. Social media has a distortion effect on expectations.
When I started playing back in the 1980s, effects of this quality were only available as rack units and they were priced out of the market for anyone who wasn’t a pro.
Fourty years later it’s become cheap enough that people seem to think they should be accessible to everyone. Forgetting that these are high-end, professional grade products.
…and their cost will (and should) reflect that reality.
(and should) reflect that reality
---
Why?
@@Tigermaster1986 Because of value. In audio, once you reach a certain point, incremental gains in quality require geometric increases in production cost. We have become so spoiled that we have lost sight of this.
People start acting as if the only limits are their desires and their imagination. The world does not work that way.
@@kellygreenii Please don't respond to me while you're high.
I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say here.
@@Tigermaster1986 Then go back and read-read it. The more it costs a company to make (and these days service) a product. The more they need to charge for it. The smaller the market for the (premium) product, the more they need to charge for it.
The fact is that entry-level gear today sounds and performs better than professional gear did 20 years ago.
But there are real world limitations both in terms of what is technically feasible, and what is economically reasonable.
TLDR: No one is going to sell you a Bricasti reverb for $600 (try $7000). They will lose money on that deal.
Just like no one is going to sell me a Ferrari (a 750 hp, hand built, street legal race car) for $30K.
@@kellygreenii Nah. You're rambling. Get your thoughts in order if you want a conversation.
Off topic maybe. During covid I could sell gear on Kijij or Facebook market place for a decent return, and fast but now I can not sell anything even after numerous price drops. I am not going to give away my gear at a significant loss. I'd rather just keep it.
Great vid dude, I’ve had these thoughts too
If you look at it as your ambient instrument maybe but that costs more than my Charvel San Dimas did a few months ago. Not a huge reverb or delay guy but I'm taking the San Dimas in any possible situation.
I'd consider paying $700 for Brad Paisleys solo tone at the AMA 50th inside of an amp though lol
Love your playing and videos - but surely that knife is no longer legal in the UK!
here's the problem... why would someone pay (where I'm from) 1150$ for reverb and another $1k for delay for two good pedals...when they can pay an extra 150$ and get a quad cortex or other modeler and have much more than just delay and reverb! so no it does not make any sense any more to pay those prices for a single effect. The problem with that pedal too is that it's limited as the top left dial has only so many choices. If they had made the choices on screen and pumped in some new reverbs now and then with firmware upgrades... maybe more enticing... but I won't go near a 1150$ reverb pedal at all!! I think they will see that they are starting to price themselves out of their own market and maybe R&D might take up lots of cost.... the material itself is not that costly!!! just go see on pedal building websites which are prices probably higher than what strymon pays for their parts and it's cheap!!
Has a pretty healthy mix of cheap pedals- e.g. Joyo, Behringer- "workhorse" brands like Boss and EHX, and boutique, higher end stuff. I don't feel like I overpaid for any of it but no way am I paying $600 for a reverb. That's insane.
In the US, we have seen 44% inflation since 2010. Something that cost $100 in 2010 now would cost $144. Even since 2020 inflation has been 22%, so $100 in 2020 would now be $121. So $400 in 2020 would be $487 now.
Running an afterneath, DMM, HX stomp xl, and avalanche run, and im good. No need for $700+ studio gear
It doesn’t really matter, all that matters is what inspires you to play and makes you happy; whether it’s cheap or expensive depends on the size of your wallet!! Also, if you bought a big sky when it first came out and it’s still going and you still love it then that’s actually pretty good value for money, more so if you gig and earn money from its use.
I've had a Big Sky since the launch and like it. I may grab a Cloudburst at some point - I'd rather have it as a standalone unit because I see it more as a synth pad effect. I think Strymon make great stuff - like the Flint & Deco - but in a way I'd rather have a smaller, simpler unit that does one thing well rather than too much in a box . . . but that's just me, I don't like spending a lot of time programming, certainly not a fan of multi-fx stuff. (I was playing when the MXR Phase 90 hit the market!)
The Machete never gets old, I love it hahahaaa
Strymon MX owner here. I play purely as a hobbyist and purchased the pedal because I generally love reverb (and have adult money). The pedal is absolutely amazing but honestly, the pedal is overpriced and overkill for someone that has limited time.
I think you've likely hit the nail on the head about people with day jobs buying these. If I had to guess, the target demographics are church guitarists and basement guitarists funding their hobby with a non-musician job. As you've said in the past, many gigging musicians are likely running Boss gear and the like cause it gets the job done and they can just roll up to Guitar Center and replace the exact sound if they really need to.
I’d like to think that the bean counters at Strymon have calculated the minuscule number of potential customers and are building accordingly. I don’t imagine even a handful of pros will buy this. I don’t care what it sounds like with a price like that.
I would like a demo of the super fancy expensive against a moderate price and a super cheap alternative (zoom, Joyo, etc)
Better, make the test blind or reverse (playing the cheap and showing the expensive) at the start of the video.
That way we would know the truth
I buy just basic stuff because I'm not comfortable with buying the expensive gear , but if some people have the money and want to buy it, let them enjoy ;)
Everything went up after COVID... But it is also a reality guitar gear went up significantly more than other items. What is more impressive is than today is cheaper more than ever to build high quality gear. There are a lot of brands as Hotone, Mooer, Nux, etc in pedals and look how many guitars you can find with stainless steel Frets and locking tuners around $200. Yes, they do exist. So high prices in gear.. are mostly just greedyness.
HX Stomp is the value for money purchase.
I’d say the biggest market for these products are people aged around 40-60 who have disposable income and do this for a hobby and maybe a side hustle.
Strymon stuff tends to sound expensively boring to me. There’s no “edge” to it. It’s the volvo of effects pedals.
Really well said! Even a head on crash will be gentle, proper parachute gear.
I feel that when using dirt from Compadre and tested Iridium.
Its like any product. There are those brands which are just more expensive. Now are they actually 'better'? Or does their higher price automatically make you think they must be better? Some brands position themselves higher priced to make it less affordable. Which in turn makes it sort of...an exclusive...item. Which then can make it even more desirable.
A pedalboard full of Strymon is a big sign your dad owns a car dealership.
It’s the millennial/gen z version of the blues lawyer with a Gibson Les Paul
I’m pretty sure it’s just a sign the player used 48-month financing.
The price of digital pedals are now outweighing their utility. I sold most of mine, I’d rather stare at an iPad than a tiny screen and get better results in logic.
I think the real question is whether or not the average salary in a first world country has kept up with inflation and do we have as much discretionary spending ability. That may be the root of why people are complaining about gear costing over $500.00. Then again, there’s a lot of gear from China under $20.00 that wasn’t available in the past.
Boss sounds better I dont care if it does one thing when it's voiced immaculately
I'll stick with my £150 Neunaber, does everything reverby I could ever need
A medium sized bag of potato chips is $7.50 at my grocer...
Manufacturers survive on hobbyist purchases. So gig pay is really not a concern for them.