Drum Tuning Myths (w/ Ronn Dunnett) | The Drum Department 🥁 Ep.9
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 лис 2022
- Legendary drum builder Ronn Dunnett will join the crew this week and we'll get into the hotly debated topic of drum tuning! We will showcase some of Ronn's drums,, give away prizes and answer your questions.
Try Drumeo FREE for 7 days here:
www.Drumeo.com/trial
______________________________
►Learn Drums Here: drumeo.com/
►Free Lessons: drumeo.com/free-lessons
►Our Favorite Music Products: www.drumeo.com/jared-recommends/
______________________________
Follow us:
►The Drumeo Beat: www.drumeo.com/beat/
►Facebook: / drumeo
►Instagram: / drumeoofficial
►TikTok: / drumeoofficial
______________________________
#drums #drumdepartment #drumeo
If the message somehow got lost in the format, my apologies. Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE has their own methods for tensioning, "tuning" or whatever. I am less about my methods and more about HOW my method ties into the concept of how to approach the process, especially for beginners and intermediate drummers. Part of the problem is that with so much information and devices available - and not all of it good or useful - it can be very confusing. I am trying to simplify what IS and what should be a simple process by introducing drummers to a fresh educational perspective, explaining it and trying to alleviate some of the frustration and anxiety many drummers have expressed to me over the past 30 years.
David Abbruzzese here.
Well said, and well done Ron!
I am all about education, Drumeo brought you on to give a lecture and there was obviously no tension (I'm sorry) between you and the hosts, they were hanging off your every word and clearly have a great deal of respect for your philosophy
Yes, one reason for my app not being released was Tunebot threatening to sue. I do not believe there would have been any infringement, but in the US businesses often use the courts to intimidate competitors in order to monopolize the market. As for the Criss sound, it was trying to get a studio sound while relying on my unprotected hearing. Over the years I've found so many methods to be able to truly "hear" the drum in whatever context is aplicable. @@NintenDub
Funny how you basically said "hey guys, there is no right way" and everyone is still looking for the 'right' way in the video..
Guy in middle wouldn’t stop talking! In an interveiw, you usually do most of the listoning
I remember reading Neil Peart in the 80s mentioned his horse racing theme on the concert Toms tensioning
Interesting talk. I play drums, and also analogue synths, pianos, guitar, and I sing. Pitch is a more distinct thing on say a piano than it is on a drum. For a piano you hear for a C1, also some C2, G2, C3, it’s part of the timbre for a piano. A drum head is a wide membrane, and you can there for example have two concrete different pitches come out at once, which depending on which they are can make the drum seem more quiet. For a beginner, it’s very hard to tension the head/membrane to have complimenting pitches come off it that work together. Not least because changing any lug will change tension in a bunch of other places. One of the best tips I have is to use two keys opposite each other, and learn a perfect 1/8 of a turn. Then slowly tension the drum, tap it each round, until you hit spots that sound good to you. For each drum I’ve owned, those spots are in different places. Once you’ve done that 1,000 times you can probably use 1 key and make bigger turns and get there faster.
Early on, i was in a band ( Everyone Involved, paying at early 1970s alternative festivals in England) playing either my kit or congas, with another member who played keyboards, violin, and drumkit on severalnumbers so we got to share my kit, and i thus got to hear it from BOTH sides.
I rapidly realised that what i heard sitting on the kit, was very different from the sound rolling out forwards and mingling with the sound of the whole band. This was in an era of minimal PA and crude monitors, the process of mic-ing up and eq-ing and amplifying would mask some of this nowadays.
Anyway, i realised that i was getting a sound from batter heads facing .me from 2--3ft away, with the click of stics hitting, which was really different from the sound out in the room, and that i would have to rethink the whole way i approached tuning the kit, so the sound would have some clarity and definition.
I appreciated how casual this was. It’s just like guys hanging out at the drum shop.
I had to learn how to tension my drums as a 14 year old. Over time I refined that technique. Simon Phillips showed how equal tension on the top and bottom heads on the toms produces maximum projection. For me snare drums and bass drums require the batter head to be higher tension than the resonant head. I really like Ronn's explanations. Feeling the torque on the tension rods comes with practice.
Batter head higher on snare drums? Really I don't think anyone does that!
No nobody does. I just made it up to fool you@@benking9160
The whole drum tuning culture is hilarious. Do what sounds good TO YOU.
Agreed. Tune them how you like. As long as they’re in tune.
@@Mari000 And that was part of what I was getting at - "tuning" in and of itself is somewhat misleading terminology - particularly with beginners and intermediate drummers.
@@dunnettclassicdrums indeed. Everyone has their preference and depending on your kit and choice of heads it will always vary. Great video!
As someone who has been playing for about 10 years it's refreshing to hear a new approach to this topic. Sometimes I find myself getting frustrated even now with tuning or tensioning. But I now have a tool that I will try to implement thank you so much!
This is funny.
Directly under this video is Rick Beato holding a snare; "how to tune your drums like a pro!"
Ronn Dunnett is the Swiss watch of drum makers !!! He Rock's
Aw, thank you!
45:57 because the head sit at at a different place depending on the bearing edge depending on the cut, but the diameter is the same on the head.. that has an effect on feel at the same pitch and overtone. like if you change a guitar scale length the tension at the same pitch would be different
also, the listen test,he contradicts his "wood doesn't matter" theory.
I addressed this - it is splitting hairs. Most drum shells are less than 3mm thick. Trying to validate the notion that a 3mm difference is going to make ANY real-world difference is, well, silly.
The head seating is irrelevant. It would be a matter of a few mm at the most, not enough to make any difference. The wood species does not matter. It is the weight that matters.
Amazing, love this...thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a fascinating discussion and argument on tuning.
My favorite kit which I do not own anymore was a 70's Gretsch with 18" bass, 12 &14 toms and I just used my ears to tune (tension) and did not concern myself with the star pattern or tapping each lug to tune the head to itself and it sounded great, I would tune the tom batter and reso to the same tone or pitch so they sounded the same and then tweak to my satisfaction . I would do the same with the snare and then bring up the batter to a place that sounded right but most importantly felt right. Time to get back to that. I am in total agreement with Ronn. The feel is really important to me, the way the stick interacts, it is all about the bounce to quote Buddy.
I use digital / electronic tuning since 1990. Am very happy with Tunebot. Can realize many tunings ( 3rd, 4th, major chords, tune of shell, low/medium/high pitch;) I also use it for percussion (bongos, congas, timbales) Ideal situation may be ( i did it) to have drums and percussion in tunings that go together very well (1 scale). I mostly use major chords on sets with 3 or more drums. I like 2C=65 Hz for 16" floor tom for a deep 80's ballad sound; that tone/pitch (major C-scale) feels OK for me in many songs. Than i also like 1C=33 Hz on the bass drum. But the deep sound may be to deep for modern ears/music. So i changed to 1D=37 Hz on 22" bass drum =2D=73 Hz on 16"floor tom to have more rebound and a shorter and higher sound. That means every toms goes up 1 full note in pitch. And 10"toms than often is 3D= 147 Hz. Than normal fast fills are possible. To being able to do very fast fills tune up all toms again 1 full note. Snare drum on 3G =196 Hz is the medium tuning I mostly use. 2F =175 Hz is low(blues) and 3A = 220 Hz is high (funky) for snare drum . I use the Tunebot recommended tuning for bass drums 22"= 1D = 37 Hz. but ...bass drums often can be tuned lower ()1C= 37 bHz) or higher (1E= 41 Hz or higher) than the recommendations. I only tune with fundamental notes and for the lugs i use the Diff. same value at all lugs. To find the fundamental note, i play in the centre of the drum. It may take a while to get the right fundamental because of all the overtones. E-rings or slapklatz does help to reduce overtones. Bass drums may be very difficult to tune to a pitch but ...i can do it if i have enough time. I am a bachelor engineer and used to do certified and calibrated measurements so ...working with electronic equipment and/or software is normal practice for me. I also can tune without an e-tuner and tune drums to the pitches that were used befor I started tuning. When all lugs are same the PLOING effect mostly is gone. There are ways to reduce snare buzz ....that is the higher school of drum tuning. Dave Weckl has tips on that. Simon Phillips demonstrated top and bottom same in a clinic/Master class. If you like high pitches / big spread in tones 4th is a nice way to go on a big drum kit. Start with the lowest tom and than go up. With 3 toms following tunings may give good results 1 3 5 1 4 6 1 5 8 Where a normal major scale is 12345678 (for instance 2c 2d 2e 2f 2g 2a 2b 3c) tune-bot.com/tunebottuningguide.pdf Good luck and ... i know most drummers dont like electronics, pitches, scales, notes, tuning/tension equipement. My exdperience ...if you are serious about sound and you pay attention to tuning ...everybody will hear you have a tuned drum kit. Simon Phillips and Dave Weckl are great examples but .... most top drummers have a tuned drum kit. If you dont bother about anything ... some kits just dont sound . If you use a lot of Gaffa Tape or other muffling and have a good sound engineer ... most drum kits will sound OK. Finger in centre of drumhead and tension the lug(s) that give rimples often may give a very quick result.
Tunebot is great
Well said. I do use an electronic DrumDial but beyond that it's always been feel and an understanding of the materials. I stopped using muffling beyond a small bit of moon gel on my toms. The Aquarian Super Kick II is all my bass drum needed to sing. I haven't used Tunebott but I'm familiar with it and it sounds helpful. I appreciate the time you put into explaining your method.
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about - drummers, learn to develop and rely on your own set of skills. It makes you a better musician and it is a skill that is portable and will never run out of batteries.
Oh yes, the Tunebot. I love that I can tune my drums to a G sharp diminished chord...lol. TuneNot.
Rermove rimples and go ...low tuning@@dunnettclassicdrums
"Maybe you need a power tom"
SACRILEGIOUS!!!
The drum industry had been telling us for more than 20 years now that nothing sounds good except thin maple (or MAYBE birch if you're a poorer peasant) SHALLOW toms.
..
:p
"The father, son, holy ghost...nah. NAH." 🤣
Cheers Drumeo.Great stuff.
Tuning is so personal isn't it.I mean where do we begin?However having stated,there are basic not so basic ground rules to observe.Each to his own
possibly.
Blessings.
Tuning for me was like that sensual intimate part of the relation .... the you bang out! 🎶😹🍻 I'm right with the organic learning process here
oh my god that guy in the middle.. So rude.. Let the man speak! yeah, had to stop watching this because of those interruptions.. Makes me feel bad, if you don't listen to others, especially your guests. 🙅
It's more on sound. Like for example a Dave Weckl style of tuning toms. The one with a Pitch Bend.
Reading through the comments I see a few of my points have already been proven - that everyone has their own method and that to a beginner or intermediate drummer looking for instruction on tensioning, that info can be confusing, contradictory, difficult and in most cases not particularly useful. I am trying to help simplify the process by providing a fresh approach to the process.
I’ve been playing at drums for many years. Never have gotten the hang of tuning. And, I think it is hard to talk about, much easier to be an apprentice. Tuning, tensioning, whatever, is a skill that is passed on by hand and ear.
I couldn’t get the hang of it in my teens, still trying in my early 70’s.
I appreciated your discussion. Going to listen a few more times!!
Hi I’m New Here i Love Drum This My First Time See You’re Video There Rock
Thank you.
Do you have any more info regarding the 2 snare drum heads in the video ?
Dunnett Classic Cristal snare side heads.
The DW shell note is for add-ons and separation in tuning range, NOT what you're supposed to tune to. Easy ex, I've had 2x different DW 22" maple kicks, new one has a lower fundamental and note on the inside.
Learn To Tune Your Drums. In a orchestra if the timpani are out of tune it brings the orchestra down. Learn the craft ♥️🔥💎
The guy keep on interrupting people on the middle of their sentences. Repeated many times in this video. So rude and egoistic. Very rough conversation.
It was part of the format of this segment. If you want to more comprehensive and concise lesson on tnesioning, let Drumeo know. I'd love to come back and do that.
How painful is to watch that guy interrupting the guest during the whole video, so rude.
It is part of the format - intended to be casual, but I think if there is interest Drumeo might be willing to create a comprehensive lesson.
Seems like this was part of an ongoing conversation amongst the participants. It certainly didn’t seem like a classroom lecture.
And, it did take me a few minutes to see what was going on. A whole bunch of material to unpack.
@@kennethtaylor964 My apologies. The format for what I was trying to deliver wasn't appropriate. Hopefully it will mean a lesson if there is demand.
After the last Drumeo snare drum hall of fame video I was looking at purchasing a Dunnett snare. It is apparent that Drumeo instructors are all big fans. I have a strange question though. I was looking on Ron's website, and then on UA-cam, and I can't seem to find any info on how he makes his drums. Does he have a shop with employees? Every other major drum maker has at least one video of their shop/process. Sonor, Gretsch, Ludwig, Tama, Pearl, Yamaha, Noble and Cooley.... Even Boutique drum companies like Brady, HHG,A&F, etc. I just thought it would be cool to see his shop/process. Does Ron design the drums and then they are made somewhere else?
I have a shop, but no employees. I make every single Dunnett Classic drum myself. Generally I don't allow photography in my shop and there are many reasons for that - one of those being that I am not in the business of teaching others how to do what I do. I do welcome visitors who reach out and want to visit.
The mighty tamburo getting no love...
Would have liked to hear more from Ronn Dunnett and alot less from Kyle Radomsky. Same on the Tommy Aldridge video. Constantly cutting off the ones I want to hear from and forcing me to listen to him. UGH!
Ronn, can you develop a snare side head with built in wires that tension along with the head??
I've already done that.
Well, I wouldn't want to do that because that would remove the ability to tension the snare wires...unless of course there are some drummers that also want to "tune" their snare wires so they are in tune with a particular song key...lol.
What happens in the studio, stays in the studio
The biggest reason why beginner drummers can’t tune their drums is: They don’t know what THEIR drums sound like when they’re tuned properly. They don’t have a reference point for THEIR kit burned into their memory.
Many of them have never even heard a properly tuned drum ever in real life, so they have no idea what it’s “supposed to” sound like when it hits their earholes. So of course they can’t tune by ear.
And too many rely on bad intel from YT etc so they get even more confused.
Beatsandmeats(?) the first major reason beginners can’t tell how different 2 lugs sound when they tap on them. Then you throw in a few more locations that don’t match at all, and their ears can play tricks. After that, then tension of top vs bottom head becomes next important issue to tackle. Once drum is tuned, then you can vary pitches to get to what feels good. They need to lube rods and use plastic washers ( Hendrix sleeved washers are great). Makes tuning so smooth
@@toddcapiton6285I could not agree more! I’ve noticed that the people who pick up tuning drums the easiest are guitar players who know how to tune their guitars with tap harmonics at the 5th and 7th frets… they’ve spent a long time teaching their ear what mild tuning discrepancies sound like, and they pick it right up.
We tension to relative pitches that are pleasing to our ears with no weird harmonic overtones.
not always.. high jazz tunings have lots of overtones. they lock for them...
I forgot to mention another tool that is useful for drummers when tensioning...maybe if we do another segment or an actual lesson.
That's all great but in studio when you want to keep the exact same tone out of each drum during the whole album recording, there has to be a way to make sure its the same and not just tune them so simply like that
Please get a new host
This is a great video. You need to bring Ronn on more often.
🌹 ❤️❤️🥁🥁
The. Bearded one could surely make his points a tad more succinctly? It's like pulling teeth getting the man to make some flow in his conversation some sense!!!! Please..
Or or I'm audi
Born a rambling man
Man, my thoughts exactly. He is knowledgeable and sharp; cut the point down to 25-30 seconds, not minutes.
Good go drummero band
I just get it even thing tune it till it sounds good.
Then*
what i think he's trying to get at, between interruptions, is that a guitar HAS to be tuned to specific notes to sound 'good' or 'right'. where as a drum CAN be tuned to specific notes and sound good, but doesn't HAVE to be tuned to notes to sound good.
Right, but it depends on the drum part. Certain bits, for example riding the floor tom in some section, absolutely need to be in the key of the song to sound good, especially on a recording.
Same with intervals -- they're important! In my opinion this whole bit is too dismissive of the idea that the drums need to be tuned.
I'm pretty sure Ronn was trying to say that but the interruptions absolutely ruined the train of thought.
YES! We can be both percussive AND melodic and NEVER have to be tied to a scale.
@@ChrisGlover98 Really? Cite an example of such a recording - I'm interested in hearing this.
@@dunnettclassicdrums Yeah only if its too ringy. After gating and compression and all the other instruments are on top you can only hear the skin attack. Only example I can think of would be Danny Carey on a song like Reflection from lateralus.
@@dunnettclassicdrums It's totally normal today to put the drums into the key of the song. Many producers will do this, and I have done it in the last three records I played on. I'm betting nearly every major commercial release is done like this today. I used to think it didn't matter but was converted about 8 years ago when a certain part just didn't sound good and once we tuned to the drum to be in the key, it sounded fine.
It doesn't need to be perfect, as long as the drum is at least one of the notes in the key, it's usually fine.
Learning to tune from a whale hunter. 😳 Lol!! JK’ this was great!
You can tune a guitar to anything.
The most important tuning tool is our ears. Keep em clean guys. I put the stuff in em once every other month, lay on my side for 20 or 30 minutes then rinse out. You'll be blown away by the stuff that comes out of them.
Sheesh good advice... i forget until i need to
Hands before ears. Tension your drums without listening - trust your hands and see where it takes you.
@@dunnettclassicdrums I'm going to try it like you said with the radio blasting. Feel the tension and feel the stick response then turn the radio down and see how I did.
This man is the Paul Reed Smith of drums.
I always thought the bearing edge talk was nonsense. As if you'd hear any difference....
Nah….im out….redo
20:57 so rude
how so?
@@morbidmanmusic The guy keep on interrupting people on the middle of their sentences. Repeated many times in this video. So rude and egoistic. Very rough conversation.
50:56
@@morbidmanmusic 51:06
7:15
A drum in tune with itself to me means all the lugs are at the same frequencies on each head. The tone is much nicer and the two heads compliment eachother! Also different lugs on the same head can feel harder to turn than other ones so his theory of feel is to some extent bullshit!
Lugs at the same frequency. That is some bullshit.
@@dunnettclassicdrums Yes lugs that are tuned to the same frequency, as in htz, measured by striking the head about 5cm from each lug. Each lug can feel different to the torque of your hand. Some will feel tighter to turn and others easily turn due to the thread, but measured by a tunebot bot they are at the same pitch. Can you wrap your head around that mate?
@@benking9160 No, actually I can't. That is because I don't let my self get caught up in marketing strategies. What I am able to get my head around - and what I believe others would benefit by - is tensioning a drum within the context of a set of drums as opposed to focusing on the useless minutiae of the frequency of every lug point might be, and doing it without the, um...assistance...of a device. I have had my share of experience with such devices and what I have found is that you can chase perfection - the "even" tensioning of every spot on a head, top and bottom and end up with a drum that does not sound or perform as desired. Taking a step further back from this, what IS important and what I tried to emphasize in this segment is that intervals are what matters. You are so very welcome.
@@dunnettclassicdrums Ha ha is that meant to be a mic drop moment? Because sadly you must fail to understand that the tunebot works out the intervals for you by simply using the calculator app. You type in the size of the drums, select your desired pitch and sustain and whether you want the top heads tighter than the bottom or vice versa. Then hit calculate and the correct lug settings for your desired sound will be displayed. Then by learning how to to actually use the bot properly! You tune your drums and the results my friend speak for themselves. To MY ears perfect repeatable results EVERY TIME.
P.S. I don't chase perfction I attain it! Lol not in my playing but in the sound of the drums. It does of course help having Gretsch renown maples and Evans heads!
Of course its tuning the drums. You are using tension to tune it to a certain pitch. Thats why theyre called tension rods. Guitar also uses tension to tune the strings
In all my years of drumming I have NEVER tried to get a drum to any particular pitch. Why would I? I'm not a guitar player. I've said it many times - the beauty of a drum is that it is by nature melodic without ever having to be tethered to any set tuning. But hey - you want to tune to notes, knock yourself out.
yes and on guitar they are Literally called Tuning Pegs lol, kind of contrary to your argument lol
This is simply not true.
@@stevebravo1422 On drums they are called tension rods. I won't argue semantics if you're missing the point and I think you are.
@@stevebravo1422 jesus...
when they have fun and you go to sleep, so boring. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Well that was a waste of time.
Tuning a drum is not rocket science!
Well, that is exactly what the message was.
Nope. You learned something.
even though there are some frustrated commentators that of course has nothing to do with what you're teaching here which is the right way to find the right sound for any particular brand of drums🎉drum heads etc if they are honest about their frustrations it's based in watching to many videos regarding drum tuning instead of actually getting off their couch and tuning their drums @dunnettclassicdrums