Thanks for this Jason and Paul. I'm in the same situation as Paul. Finished my private in a 172 and went out to buy a 182. I'm aware of all the challenges of the step-up especially the nose-heavy attitude. It is a manageable step-up but I'm spending plenty of time practicing solo or with an instructor. Kudos to you Paul for putting yourself out there on the big Internet and doing the right thing to get constant feedback from a CFI you trust.
@@TheFinerPoints It is indeed especially with a wife and 2 kids. Unfortunately it's been in the shop for the last 6 weeks getting a BRS parachute system to make it a poor-man's Cirrus (see the 2 small kids above), along with a new GPS and ADS-B. I've missed a lot of perfect Spring weather in North Carolina, but it will be a safer airplane for me to take the family places and continue on through IFR and commercial to make me even safer.
I'm a CFII and heli rated. I have 3000 hours in CJ3 and 13k+ total. The 182 is one of the hardest airplanes to land there is for most pilots...including me. I have a tendency to round out too high....CJ...hehe I have a 1964 H model and it has 40* of flaps...good luck landing with full flaps...especially if you dont fly it a lot. In 1970 they took 10* of flaps out so you can't exceed 30* there after....big difference. I also have Peterson Kenai (300hp with canard) and it will fly so slow you almost can't screw up a landing....HUGE difference between the two. The H model has a critical speed between flying and dropping with 40*....takes a lot of practice to land it decent for me because I don't fly it much. This vid was great....you're right.....the guy flies the airplane WAY too much....if you'll give it a chance it will fly itself. Just make minor corrections and monitor trends works best. I'm teaching my best buddy how to fly...he just can't quite get the sight picture down on the roundout and flair. Also...did we forget about HATTS and GUMPS? Gets the killers and works for me....old school Teaching landing is the hardest part if you ask me. Once your student starts making decent landings you're more than half way
Man I miss the 182! Our aero club had a 182P that we ended up scrapping as the engine was due for an overhaul and airframe was riddled with corrosion. Despite it being in pretty shite condition it was great fun to fly and so much better than a 172 of the same vintage. Yes, if you didn’t have that yoke all the way back (a lot more force required than the 172 - trim was important) a nosewheel landing could result and either a prop strike or bent firewall could follow.
The high nose attitude was definitely something I to get used to when I first flew the 182T. Great video. Will recommend that to my instructors to show to 182T newcomers!
Awesome video as usual. The other big difference I've found compared with the 172 is you can't just "chop and drop". Landings are much better if you keep a little power in.
I watch a lot of flightchops' channel as well, and I think this channel is really top notch for really helpful points. One thing I noticed is that landing the 182 looks a whole lot like landing a tail dragger. Would it be useful to learn to do three point landings in a cub to help transition to learning to land a 182 from a lighter 152 or 172?
Take a good look at the change of aircraft heading with each application of aileron on short final. Adverse yaw, meaning when left aileron is applied, nose yaws right, and vice versa. Firstly, this is an untidy situation, but it gets worse if you consider the secondary effect of that yaw, which is to cause roll in the direction of the yaw - exactly opposite what your are trying to achieve with aileron. This is one of the reasons that you need apparently excessive use of aileron to keep wins level, especially on finals, and then have a difficult approach. use enough rudder with each application of aileron so as to maintain aircraft heading, and half your landing problems disappear.
As a low-time PPL that's basically only ever flown in 172s, and is looking to get checked out in my school's 182, this is very timely and very helpful.
Some good points in the video but the one thing I took away from it was a 20 year CFII and a pilot with their heads in the cockpit consumed with the magic box in the panel. Pilot missed a call as he was busy fidgeting with his avionics. Get your head out of the cockpit close to the airport VFR.
Hi Jason! Question... can you provide more detail on your Five A's you use for Arrival mentioned in this video? ATIS, Altimeter, Approach, Avionics, Airplane? I can probably guess most of it as a VFR pilot... (ATIS) Get weather info, (Altimeter) Change Altimeter accordingly, (Approach) either listen for what runway and pattern being used or get from Foreflight, Sectional Chart, etc. (I always have this info before arriving handy), (Avionics) set Radios and Nav accordingly to set up for landing, talk to Tower or CTAF, then (Airplane) fly the airplane to set up for entry into the pattern and a stabilized approach.
Nice. I think the pilot was a bit nervous. But I like that fact that you told him to just ask ATC if unclear. I’d rather he get clear than remain confused. ATC talk can be quick, especially if you are doing other stuff in cockpit. Well done!
Thanks for this, my CFI when I converted to -172s is constantly hounding me about landing flat when my nosewheel is in no danger of touching, and I realize this is probably why. Nose heavy airplanes =(
@@relax-vf4zg Jason at The Finer Points's content (podcasts, videos, book) can do it better justice than I. But for VFR flight-- Approach: Brief the approach, e.g. right traffic to 16R. Avionics: Put tower/CTAF into radio, ATIS if you haven't already gotten it, ground frequency in #2 Airplane: In range checklist and GUMPS checklist
Hi, very interesting lesson! May i ask you: how many degrees of flaps you have used for landing in the video? and how many degrees of flaps do you normaly use for landing? tks.
Our club has a 172 and a 182. Our insurance requires 10 hours transition with a CFI if a pilot has less than 100 hours and 5 hours transition for over 100 hours. I had about 400 hours mostly in a 172. 5 hours was way too long.
Thanks for this video Jason! I am about to check out in a 182 and you probably gave me the most important tip to remember, that heavy, long nose. I flew a Cardinal to get my complex and it seems almost familiar so I will definitely watch for that! Also gonna try out that Jacobsen Flare... first time I've heard of it!
Long story short: just fly parallel the runway at 1 ft. height (flare) and wait for touchdown. If you come down the runway without excessive speed, you will have almost no float at all (i.e., no kinetic energy to dissipate). Why over-complicate this?
Fly model planes if you already haven't. You can practice your landings cheaply, with FPV goggles. If you can land a model (without any fancy stabilising software) a full size plane should be easy.
@@TheFinerPoints any tips for a guy with only 20 hrs that can land in 15knt cross winds like butter but struggles with 0 wind landings and stable approaches.... I am blind out of one eye FYI...
Hey Jason, great and educational video - as always! Is the Jacobson Flare a standard procedure in your training? I checked it out some time ago and also heard you podcast about it but haven’t been able to implement it into my landings yet. Do you recommend the Jacobson Flare for every pilot?
Hi Phily ... not really. I present it to people who are having a very tough time figuring out when to flare but it's a bit too scientific for me to get fully behind and most of my students don't need it. I do believe there is a lot of value in the idea that you begin the flare when a point 100 feet in front of your aiming point disappears and I didn't want to mention that without a mention of the Jacobson flare so that's why I pointed to them in this video.
I am afraid to land. Went into a 182 with a cfi, and on landing, a light 7 kt wind pushed nose just pointed left 15* over the numbers and so put in right rudder and then once on ground plane starts tracking off the right of centerline, similar on to, right rudder in and wind suddenly hits tail and turns nose left 20* at 400 ft after to, and oddly the ball is to the left despite mild rt rudder for to/full per. Very weird.
Can you pls come help me learn how to land again?? In a small plane, I seem to have lost it. C182. I made better landings in my first few flights. It makes me want to leave aviation. Frustrating. I am scared of landings. Hate them. Seems I have become weak despite logging 27hrs in last 8 months.
@@TheFinerPoints it absolutely does. I still practice using that Lindbergh reference regularly, even when I can see forward. I also tend to hit my head more. Taildragger time has refined the skill even further than with trikes. I suggest if anyone can, to get their tailwheel. You get truly refined foot skills among what was described here.
I think there is more about that on some of the Patreon videos and in my book "Setting the Standard". It's an arrival device for VFR and IFR flights. You've got it right, approach, avionics, airplane
I enjoy your videos but I must take exception to a statement you made:you stated that the 182 has a much bigger and heavier engine and therefore the nose will will come down quicker. Pardon me, but this is nonsense. The relationship between the main gear, the center of gravity and the nose wheel is pretty much the same on any tricycle aircraft. If the nose on the 182 was so heavy, it would simply not fly properly. What you're probably referring to is the fact that with only two people on board the center of gravity must be very close to its forward limit. But it has nothing to do with a heavier engine.
Pretty scary. The typical scenario. Guy buys an airplane that exceeds his skill and proficiency. He has the money, but it bought him advanced technology that this guy paul is relying on to make up for his lack of experience. I am sure paul is a nice guy...but do you think anyone will tell paul the truth? This guy invites 3 golf buddies, they trust him thinking he is the "pilot" of all pilots. Meanwhile paul is scared and trying to act the part...friends have no clue
plane-sense Wouldn’t make any difference if it were a 172 or something similar...and it might even be worse with lesser power and capability. The important thing is that he’s getting dual instruction to enhance his capability with the capability of the airplane. The last dual instruction you get should not be when you earned the license in your pocket. I think one of the best ways to get a Flight Review is to complete a WINGS phase. I urge my clientele and friends to do a WINGS phase once a year. Besides the obvious benefit, the insurance company will probably offer a discount on your insurance, which will aid in paying for the WINGS flight portion. Win, win.
wow, those are some pretty wild speculations. You are wrong here. Paul does not own this plane, he is renting. He is seeking additional instruction to make himself a better pilot. He doesn't play golf. He is not scared. I understand what you are trying to say about some fictional person but Paul is not that guy. He would not invite 3 of his friends to go in that plane with him. He's a great student and doing everything a pilot should to gain better skills and learn how to make good decisions. It's pretty amazing what you got out of this video.
Perhaps because the description stated he had " upgraded" to a 182. I too had the impression it was his aircraft. Can't speak to the rest of the scenario except to say it makes me glad I don't golf.
Dale Johnson bonanza is a 6 place according to company brochures and Wikipedia. It is a different class of airplane. The point is you don't change airplanes to improve your kandings, that's just stupid. You learn how to land your airplane.
Fly the aircraft all the way to the tie-down. Great perspective
Thanks for this Jason and Paul. I'm in the same situation as Paul. Finished my private in a 172 and went out to buy a 182. I'm aware of all the challenges of the step-up especially the nose-heavy attitude. It is a manageable step-up but I'm spending plenty of time practicing solo or with an instructor. Kudos to you Paul for putting yourself out there on the big Internet and doing the right thing to get constant feedback from a CFI you trust.
Congrats on your new purchase! It's a great first airplane ...
@@TheFinerPoints It is indeed especially with a wife and 2 kids. Unfortunately it's been in the shop for the last 6 weeks getting a BRS parachute system to make it a poor-man's Cirrus (see the 2 small kids above), along with a new GPS and ADS-B. I've missed a lot of perfect Spring weather in North Carolina, but it will be a safer airplane for me to take the family places and continue on through IFR and commercial to make me even safer.
I'm a CFII and heli rated. I have 3000 hours in CJ3 and 13k+ total. The 182 is one of the hardest airplanes to land there is for most pilots...including me. I have a tendency to round out too high....CJ...hehe I have a 1964 H model and it has 40* of flaps...good luck landing with full flaps...especially if you dont fly it a lot. In 1970 they took 10* of flaps out so you can't exceed 30* there after....big difference. I also have Peterson Kenai (300hp with canard) and it will fly so slow you almost can't screw up a landing....HUGE difference between the two. The H model has a critical speed between flying and dropping with 40*....takes a lot of practice to land it decent for me because I don't fly it much. This vid was great....you're right.....the guy flies the airplane WAY too much....if you'll give it a chance it will fly itself. Just make minor corrections and monitor trends works best. I'm teaching my best buddy how to fly...he just can't quite get the sight picture down on the roundout and flair. Also...did we forget about HATTS and GUMPS? Gets the killers and works for me....old school Teaching landing is the hardest part if you ask me. Once your student starts making decent landings you're more than half way
Jason you are a rock star of aviation training. I LOVE THE VIDEO, keep it up and I cant wait for the next one.
Thanks! You are very kind and I'm glad you're getting a lot out of the videos!
Man I miss the 182! Our aero club had a 182P that we ended up scrapping as the engine was due for an overhaul and airframe was riddled with corrosion. Despite it being in pretty shite condition it was great fun to fly and so much better than a 172 of the same vintage. Yes, if you didn’t have that yoke all the way back (a lot more force required than the 172 - trim was important) a nosewheel landing could result and either a prop strike or bent firewall could follow.
The high nose attitude was definitely something I to get used to when I first flew the 182T. Great video. Will recommend that to my instructors to show to 182T newcomers!
Nopehahalolwut what do you mean?
Awesome video as usual. The other big difference I've found compared with the 172 is you can't just "chop and drop". Landings are much better if you keep a little power in.
That can help, especially when heavy. Thanks
I watch a lot of flightchops' channel as well, and I think this channel is really top notch for really helpful points. One thing I noticed is that landing the 182 looks a whole lot like landing a tail dragger. Would it be useful to learn to do three point landings in a cub to help transition to learning to land a 182 from a lighter 152 or 172?
Take a good look at the change of aircraft heading with each application of aileron on short final. Adverse yaw, meaning when left aileron is applied, nose yaws right, and vice versa. Firstly, this is an untidy situation, but it gets worse if you consider the secondary effect of that yaw, which is to cause roll in the direction of the yaw - exactly opposite what your are trying to achieve with aileron. This is one of the reasons that you need apparently excessive use of aileron to keep wins level, especially on finals, and then have a difficult approach. use enough rudder with each application of aileron so as to maintain aircraft heading, and half your landing problems disappear.
As a low-time PPL that's basically only ever flown in 172s, and is looking to get checked out in my school's 182, this is very timely and very helpful.
Some good points in the video but the one thing I took away from it was a 20 year CFII and a pilot with their heads in the cockpit consumed with the magic box in the panel. Pilot missed a call as he was busy fidgeting with his avionics.
Get your head out of the cockpit close to the airport VFR.
Hi Jason! Question... can you provide more detail on your Five A's you use for Arrival mentioned in this video? ATIS, Altimeter, Approach, Avionics, Airplane? I can probably guess most of it as a VFR pilot... (ATIS) Get weather info, (Altimeter) Change Altimeter accordingly, (Approach) either listen for what runway and pattern being used or get from Foreflight, Sectional Chart, etc. (I always have this info before arriving handy), (Avionics) set Radios and Nav accordingly to set up for landing, talk to Tower or CTAF, then (Airplane) fly the airplane to set up for entry into the pattern and a stabilized approach.
Excellent pointers with positive inputs. Thanks.
Nice. I think the pilot was a bit nervous. But I like that fact that you told him to just ask ATC if unclear. I’d rather he get clear than remain confused. ATC talk can be quick, especially if you are doing other stuff in cockpit. Well done!
Thanks a lot for this good explanatory video! It helps me a lot towards better landings with the C172 Reims Rocket with its heavy 6-cylinder in front.
Thanks for this, my CFI when I converted to -172s is constantly hounding me about landing flat when my nosewheel is in no danger of touching, and I realize this is probably why. Nose heavy airplanes =(
Yes, it's easy to misjudge for sure. Your instructor has your back!
I think the 5As are appropriate and useful for VFR flying, as well. Use it all the time.
Chris O'Brien what does approach, avionics, airplane means? thanks!
@@relax-vf4zg Jason at The Finer Points's content (podcasts, videos, book) can do it better justice than I. But for VFR flight--
Approach: Brief the approach, e.g. right traffic to 16R.
Avionics: Put tower/CTAF into radio, ATIS if you haven't already gotten it, ground frequency in #2
Airplane: In range checklist and GUMPS checklist
Thank you so much captain ! very useful and informative channel you created. Waiting to see more as a future student pilot :)...
172 is very very easy. But the 182 has a lot of advantages
Grerat info!
Thank you so much 🥰
Hi, very interesting lesson! May i ask you: how many degrees of flaps you have used for landing in the video? and how many degrees of flaps do you normaly use for landing? tks.
Thanks for the great video, Jason! Thank you for what you do.
Our club has a 172 and a 182. Our insurance requires 10 hours transition with a CFI if a pilot has less than 100 hours and 5 hours transition for over 100 hours. I had about 400 hours mostly in a 172. 5 hours was way too long.
Super high quality!
Thanks for this video Jason! I am about to check out in a 182 and you probably gave me the most important tip to remember, that heavy, long nose. I flew a Cardinal to get my complex and it seems almost familiar so I will definitely watch for that! Also gonna try out that Jacobsen Flare... first time I've heard of it!
Thank you Jason, another great video. :)
Thanks for the video!! Would be amazing to train IFR in the bay area!!
i am an old crop duster with electric flaps, easy to 3 point with using the electric flaps
Long story short: just fly parallel the runway at 1 ft. height (flare) and wait for touchdown. If you come down the runway without excessive speed, you will have almost no float at all (i.e., no kinetic energy to dissipate). Why over-complicate this?
I’ll take that landing. Can’t wait until I’m that smooth consistently. It feels like I’m regressing right now 😰
Two steps forward / one step back is sometimes the way it goes. Hang in there
Fly model planes if you already haven't. You can practice your landings cheaply, with FPV goggles. If you can land a model (without any fancy stabilising software) a full size plane should be easy.
@@TheFinerPoints any tips for a guy with only 20 hrs that can land in 15knt cross winds like butter but struggles with 0 wind landings and stable approaches.... I am blind out of one eye FYI...
Hey Jason, great and educational video - as always! Is the Jacobson Flare a standard procedure in your training? I checked it out some time ago and also heard you podcast about it but haven’t been able to implement it into my landings yet. Do you recommend the Jacobson Flare for every pilot?
Hi Phily ... not really. I present it to people who are having a very tough time figuring out when to flare but it's a bit too scientific for me to get fully behind and most of my students don't need it. I do believe there is a lot of value in the idea that you begin the flare when a point 100 feet in front of your aiming point disappears and I didn't want to mention that without a mention of the Jacobson flare so that's why I pointed to them in this video.
Great video Jason.
Thanks Neil!
Is the Depart Airport somewhere in San Jose , CA. I saw a Flying Tigers SEC 41 nose.
Great tips for for RP!
Awesome content!
Thanks!
Do you want to see the engine at idle? If not, about how many rpm should a person land with?
I am afraid to land. Went into a 182 with a cfi, and on landing, a light 7 kt wind pushed nose just pointed left 15* over the numbers and so put in right rudder and then once on ground plane starts tracking off the right of centerline, similar on to, right rudder in and wind suddenly hits tail and turns nose left 20* at 400 ft after to, and oddly the ball is to the left despite mild rt rudder for to/full per. Very weird.
Good jod Paul!
Great review and pointers, as I fly the same paint scheme 182T as well - HA!
Very cool! I hope this helps a bit
@@TheFinerPoints
Yep, never hurts to get a pointer or two from a different perspective!!
Hello! A buddy of mine argues that it is not safe to land in a stalled condition. What are your thoughts on this?
I use a booster seat when flying the 182
Is that your shoe squeaking when you walk? 😂
Can you pls come help me learn how to land again?? In a small plane, I seem to have lost it. C182. I made better landings in my first few flights. It makes me want to leave aviation. Frustrating. I am scared of landings. Hate them. Seems I have become weak despite logging 27hrs in last 8 months.
Is it nuts that I'm tall enough I can see over the nose of the 182? lol. Great job.
I am 5'7 and I use a cushion
Not nuts, I've known a few. I do believe it makes your job a little harder tho ...
@@TheFinerPoints it absolutely does. I still practice using that Lindbergh reference regularly, even when I can see forward. I also tend to hit my head more. Taildragger time has refined the skill even further than with trikes. I suggest if anyone can, to get their tailwheel. You get truly refined foot skills among what was described here.
Can you fit 4 adult in a 182?? Thank you in advance.
Absolutely.
Why does he move the prop lever to full foward at 2,600ft?
damn what a sexy plane!!!. love it!!!.
Maravilhoso voar.....
By the way, what camera are you using, if I may ask? The "selfie videos" look great and very sharp. Thanks a lot.
hi just want to ask what does the 5 A mean? i have idea bout atis, altimeter setting, i dont know approach? , avionics? , airplane? thanks for help!
I think there is more about that on some of the Patreon videos and in my book "Setting the Standard". It's an arrival device for VFR and IFR flights. You've got it right, approach, avionics, airplane
Seams like he needed more time learning his instruments before this flight.
I enjoy your videos but I must take exception to a statement you made:you stated that the 182 has a much bigger and heavier engine and therefore the nose will will come down quicker. Pardon me, but this is nonsense. The relationship between the main gear, the center of gravity and the nose wheel is pretty much the same on any tricycle aircraft.
If the nose on the 182 was so heavy, it would simply not fly properly. What you're probably referring to is the fact that with only two people on board the center of gravity must be very close to its forward limit. But it has nothing to do with a heavier engine.
Correct. I think he meant forward CG, so you need to anticipate that and trim back when you extend flaps.
Unnecessary noise putting prop full forward even before entering the circuit
Isn’t GS shown somewhere on the MFD too? Maybe not in a 182...
It's configurable from the MFD in the aux pages -- a previous pilot had it turned off
@@TheFinerPoints SO much info and capabilities... getting my instrument ticket in a G1000 bird almost felt like cheating
According to what???
The perfect landing for me is ... first touch to stop in 50 feet or less. Pilots need to define "perfect landing" for themselves. :-)
I fail to understand how that was "hard"
Want a perfect landing just about every time, get rid of those Cessnas and buy a Bonanza...Flying Cessna is like flying a wheelbarrow with wings.
Haha maybe you're right, is that an offer for a ride ;P
@@TheFinerPoints any time you want! I'm always ready to take someone flying in Triple 4 Xray. Check out my recent video "Taming the Dr. Killer"
If your ever down in Austin TX we'll go get some Bar B Que to remember for the rest of your life....
Pretty scary. The typical scenario. Guy buys an airplane that exceeds his skill and proficiency. He has the money, but it bought him advanced technology that this guy paul is relying on to make up for his lack of experience. I am sure paul is a nice guy...but do you think anyone will tell paul the truth? This guy invites 3 golf buddies, they trust him thinking he is the "pilot" of all pilots. Meanwhile paul is scared and trying to act the part...friends have no clue
plane-sense Wouldn’t make any difference if it were a 172 or something similar...and it might even be worse with lesser power and capability. The important thing is that he’s getting dual instruction to enhance his capability with the capability of the airplane. The last dual instruction you get should not be when you earned the license in your pocket.
I think one of the best ways to get a Flight Review is to complete a WINGS phase. I urge my clientele and friends to do a WINGS phase once a year. Besides the obvious benefit, the insurance company will probably offer a discount on your insurance, which will aid in paying for the WINGS flight portion. Win, win.
And you are comfortable with all those speculations about Paul based on this video? Those were not my impressions at all.
wow, those are some pretty wild speculations. You are wrong here. Paul does not own this plane, he is renting. He is seeking additional instruction to make himself a better pilot. He doesn't play golf. He is not scared. I understand what you are trying to say about some fictional person but Paul is not that guy. He would not invite 3 of his friends to go in that plane with him. He's a great student and doing everything a pilot should to gain better skills and learn how to make good decisions. It's pretty amazing what you got out of this video.
Perhaps because the description stated he had " upgraded" to a 182. I too had the impression it was his aircraft. Can't speak to the rest of the scenario except to say it makes me glad I don't golf.
Bad instructing, way too much talking and interrupting, let the poor bloke have a fly
Want a perfect landing just about every time, get rid of those Cessnas and buy a Bonanza...Flying Cessna is like flying a wheelbarrow with wings.
Dale Johnson maybe he doesn't want to buy a 6 place retractable just so his landings are better!
My Bonanza is four place and cost half the price of my neighbor’s 182 and is way faster
Dale Johnson bonanza is a 6 place according to company brochures and Wikipedia. It is a different class of airplane. The point is you don't change airplanes to improve your kandings, that's just stupid. You learn how to land your airplane.
@@sblack48 no need to get upset....the comment was meant to inspire light hearted conjecture and really all the Cessna fans to their defense😉
There are far more 4 place models of the Bonamza than 6 place by the way.