James, Weird one hey! My theory is that you had a injector with a coil that was partially open ( half the coil not being used ) and with the PCM's pulsing signal it was limiting the amount current flow and it was not creating a strong enough magnetic field to open the injector fast enough or wide enough. Although the PCM signal was doing most of the heavy lifting, when you provided a non pulsing ground, thru the test light, that extra steady 200 or so ma of current flow thru the coil, provided enough current flow to increase the magnetic field and lift it fast enough and wide enough. Just a guess, what do you think? Aside from your camera skills (LOL), your Automotive Diagnostic skills are top notch!
Nice find James, that got me thinking on how I could use a test lamps resistance to induce faults in circuits and then see how the waveform looks with the lamp's resistance. Not only do you do a nice job James, you get people to think and have ideas on how to apply things just like your brother. Good job.
Great video James Its nice to see a different approach to fault finding, as we all know in the repair business, there are many way of faulting a faulty component
Hi James, thanks for your video, it might help with a 1mz I'm about to look at. and a gift for you.... the dip in the current waveform is the injector mechanically opening and the bump in the voltage waveform is the injector mechanically closing. there is a lot of good info at pico scope auto waveform libery. Thanks -Simon, Automotive research engineer :)
This one is interesting. Good work narrowing it down so quickly to the injector. My guess would be a mechanical sticking in the pintle, causing restricted flow. When you add your test light, it keeps the injector open longer and makes the misfire better because of the extra fuel. Good video.
Great that uou put it fown to the injector. I replaced all six on my 98 rx300 as one was faulty. Once you get high mileage in these engines you really want to be proactive with maintenance and start replacing sensors and belts in ine hit if possible. My experience with older classic cars is that once components start to age fail the rest starts to go.
With the test light on the control wire grounded to battery negative it was holding open the injector and it was overcoming the mechanical force that was preventing it delivering fuel.
James Danner Yeah it is for sure. I did have a play with it on a Ford a while back it made it run real rich to the point of misfiring, but never really tried it in a Toyota. I'm going to have a play with it on a few different vehicle makes and see what it will do. If it does work well it maybe worth thinking of doing if we want to drive the fuel mixture rich to look at a response from a O2 sensor when there is no propane at hand. Providing the injector plug is easily accessible. Just a thought.
I never even thought of that. I should have done a good one for comparison. Like i said i was zipping along just looking for the control wire so i could do a flow test next when it happened. Let me know if anything comes out of your research. I did see the 'on time' pulse narrow a ms or so with test light in circuit. Good chance that could have have been the whole bank doing that
Test light/functioning injector phenomenon; a shorted injector pintle wont energized/open as much as designed due to loss of current to heat in its coil winding but when the test light is hooked up to its circuit in parallel it become an easier path to the current/voltage thus stabilizing the the shorted coil and allowing it to partially functioning during idle/low demand but this wont work on a heavier demand duty cycle as it wont allow much fuel to pass through. Good video Danner keep it up
Regarding your use of the Snap On "low amp probe" and current ramping the KG injector, the dip is known as the "seagull effect" (aka the "pintle hump"). This shows when the injector is starting to open. Typical diagnosis detecting a bad injector, as you know, is when there is initially any vertical climbing prior to the diagonal ramp. The waveform of the bad injector, with the exaggerated "seagull effect," seems to be an additional means of detecting when an injector is starting to go bad.
The misfire goes away because you input -negative feed on the negative pulse side of the fuel injector forcing the injector to open the fuel stream to the cyliinder, that is kind of dangeorius thou because if it remains like that during idle for a long period of time it may cause a cylinder hidrolock. Excelent vid James! Thanks.
Good video . I could see where you were working on the engine . I could see the data and graph on your scanner screen . I could hear your narration even over the engine noise but despite the excellent filming tech. my eyes were rolling back in my head.. . If you and thousands of other UA-cam instructors could tell the viewer , an inexperience viewer in my case. the conclusion .. That is what was the cause that you found for the misfire early in the video. before you get to the reasoning , the experimentation. they trial and error exploring .. /By me knowing that you found the problem and what was the problem I can keep focused on the video even when you are talking about things I don't understand.
I can understand and appreciate not wanting to waste time on a video, only to find out it's inconclusive. unfortunately I am filming while I work. I don't stage a problem I already figured out. u r just watching live in essence. I will keep that in mind in the future. thank you for participating
So a good test might be just to ground the control circuit of the injector and see if the misfire goes away. A good test If ya know what your doin and ya can get to the injectors. PS like your no nonsense approach you seem to make it fast and easy. You have a lot of good tips.
thanks for the compliment. i do waste a little time on the video filming part and do a few things i probably wouldnt do normally just to get more content. but i like doing it and learn in the process. thanks again for watching
I have 00 es300 same engine same issues. I’ve changed out ignition coils and all injectors and Vt solenoid on both sides of engine. Still getting same outcome but I know my cat on rear needs replaced. Gonna do that today possibly,,,,, get back to u.
Did you try ohm testing the bad injector and comparing it to the ohms of the new injector? Would this determine if the coil is failing or there is an issue with clogging? Injectors can be 'flushed and cleaned' fairly easily off the engine
i did ohm check the faulty one and one that worked. both had 15.1 ohms. but when key was on, power in ckt, the bad one dropped to 13, the good one didn't change. i know that's probably not a legit test but add that to theory building. i honestly don't know if a sticking injector would be visible on a graphing scope. thanks for feedback
James Danner I'm pretty sure that 2.1 ohm difference is enough evidence to say the injector was failing. Glad you checked it under load, cause that's something I was wondering. Thanks for replying and posting the video
James Danner James, your ohm test revealing a 2.1 ohm drop on the bad one, to me, is enough to confirm what I originally said about it being partially open ( Only half the coil being used ) under load, and you provided that extra boost of current ( With the Test Light ), providing a stronger magnetic field to open the injector all the way. It had to be at least, partially open, not completely open, or there would had been no current flow at all, when you put the test light to it. In my theory the injector was just barely failing, barely! Keep in mind, as I said before, the PCM was doing most of the heavy lifting and giving it the proper pulse-width, well sort of ? As far as detecting a stuck injector on a scope, I would think, maybe!, you would see a rise in amperage to a point and then it would flat-line, if it was sticking? Just Theory Building! LOL !
Billy R After rereading my previous posts, I realized I kept saying a partial open in the injector. I apologize, what I meant to say is a partial short in the coil internally to it's self not to ground, causing only half the coil to be used. But if there was a total open in the coil it still would have no current flow with or without the test light!
Billy R if it was partially shorted,wouldnt the amp ramp sharply increase instead of dipping down like it did? sorry to beat a dead horse but learning by asking.
Hey James, GREAT VID, But I just wanted to give you my input & kinda similar Sit., W/ a 1997, Altima, kept having a, Mis - Firing Code, on Cyl. #1, no Matter what I Tried, #1, #1, Long story short, took out the - - INJ. - For #1, The INJ. Was fine, Ohms. Were right on Specs., BUT What I did Find, was an INJ. "O-RING", The inner rubber of the - O--Ring, was split--broken perfectly & was Covering the - - 2-holes of the INJ. IE. CAUSING-- Restriction, there - for, Causing the - - Mis - Fire!, NO problem just went to Nissan & Replaced all, 4-- 'O-Rings' (4-cyl.) Eng. Put it back together, Erased the Code, Everything back Norm, running 🏃 like a Champ!!!
i wonder if the test light gave it a bit better ground and slight current flow increase on the faulty injector force it to perform a tiny bit better again?
thanks....love the problem solving....can you do damage to the injectors sending thru too much current when gounding externally the injectors ?...thanks again...bob
Paul said maybe a peak and hold style that grounds fully initially then limits the current flow with a duty cycle or higher resistance to ground.which u would see on a ramp test as an initial rise then a flat top. or diesels . but mine, the pcm clearly pulled to total ground as evidenced by the 0 volt line on the waveform. so my guess is no. cause u wont be sending any more current than would be done thru the pcm. that being said, i wouldn't hold it to ground for an extended time.just pulse. you would at minimum fill that cyl with fuel...bad.
Hey James! I have this same car and its not coming up. No start actually. I have replaced the fuel pump but it seems no power at the pump and the relays seems to work fine. I would be glad to hear any suggestions.
That would be wonderful. The car has been sitting down for some weeks and i'm running out of ideas as i am very new to the DIY lifestyle. Would be looking forward to any help or suggestions. Thanks
+Suleiman Adams so if you think we r dealing with the fuel pump. It gets power from the CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY which is behind the drivers kick panel. My wiring diagram shows terminals 1,2,3 and 5 1 should have power from the ignition switch Run and start 5 should have power from the EFI relay in the left front of engine compartment 2 is the ground control from the computer 3 is the one feeding pump So if u have a test light ,, hook it to ground and with the C.O. relay unplugged you should see power on one with key on run and on crank Another should show power too but it may be only for a few seconds on run but constant during cranking. If u hook the test light to battery positive, One ( terminal 3) should light up the test light confirming there is a ground path thru the pump The last one, no 2, may light up test light for a short time when u initially turn key on but definitely should when cranking Start there
I have a 2002 avalon and mine seems to want to cut out at around 41-45mph so I changed all plugs and coils except number 1 very difficult to get to for me one moment the car is running as it should for sometime and entire day even had check engine light go out completely well now it's back on and still doing it as it pleases then it begins to flash and code say random multiple misfires 135 so I change all except one any chance it just may very well be that last one I haven't changed yet ???
I have an 03 avalon and I'm getting mine looked at tomorrow. I have the same problem. I have been looking around and the EGR valve might be stuck to open.
You had some specialized equipment there. But for those of us with only the OBD II scanner tool. If the scanner points to a cylinder misfiring, can't we just put in a new spark plug into that cylinder and then swap the coil with a known good(front bank, easy to get to) coil. If the misfire on the scanner moves to the swapped location, the injector was bad. Disclaimer. It has been 35 years since I was a professional mechanic. It was carburetors at that time.
iv a 03 avencis starts perfect in morning at runs great aslong as driving but when stop for lights or roundabout check engine light comes on n it wont go I have to turn car off n then start it but takes ages tryin to start n av to av foot to floor any help greatly appreciated
Great video! Seen patterns with shorted injectors, but can't remember seeing a partially open(theorizing)? one before. Keep up the great work,thanks for the lesson.
James Danner Was agreeing with what Billy R. was saying,I think static ohms was one thing but when amperage started flowing is when your partial open showed up as seen by the amp ramp.
Unfortunately no. At least with the snap on. Some fords u need to use the cylinder contribution functional test. Some only say yes or no on a misfire pid
I guess I'm super late, and I actually starting watching the second video first lol, oh well I haven't seen the solution yet but I'll make my guess now. It's a bad injector for sure, I'm gonna say the coil has shorted internally and adding the test light in a series parallel circuit put the resistance closer to where it needs to be to open the injector. I suspect scanner danner will get a waveform in second video, I also suspect there will be no injector open hump. Fingers crossed.
would have like to see ohm test on injector and flow test on car ... or if you have equipment flow test off car would be cool video. tell your brother take that inj and hook it up off car in flow bench with scope and show us the pintle and test light theory. that would be really cool...
I wish I had the equipment and, more importantly, the time to do that stuff . unfortunately that part is long gone. maybe the next one I see, I'll give it to him for class.
Your videos and knowledge are awesome ! If Ya wanna hear some screw ups I have a few over the last nearly 40 years workin on cars !!!! Maybe you should have a video having guys listing there top #1 mistake ???? Remember old Chryslers that had left hand lug nut threads on the left side only ? I broke 2 off before I figured out what I was doing !!!! OMG.
+Keith Baldwin does it run on starting fluid? Like a no fuel scenario. Or not, like a no spark. I have a video on a Toyota where one of the coils shorted out and shuts the car down. U have any codes?
Hello, I need your urgent help, I have a toyota prado, when I use the flashing lights, does not work, but the instrument panel lights (cluster) turn on as if I use the navigation lights. sorry my english, greeting from venezuela.
and never heard of a prado. maybe not American market. but it sounds like you have a grounding problem if the turn signals are back feeding thru cluster lighting
hi bro, how are you, greetings. I disassembled the fuse box, check all wiring harness, replace the cluster, button flashing lights, we put candles and pray much, hahaha .. but the problem persists, now check this out, I turn on the lights, high and low , Remove the fuse and where supposedly should go negative current passes positive current. is this sucking positive current from somewhere but can not find the short circuit. when I turn on the flashing lights, the cluster turns like turning the ignition swicht. it is a toyota prado fzj90 5VZ 6 cyl. landcruiser in Venezuela. I have also one toyota tacoma 2007 Electronic ignition button when I turn the truck, lights brake lights but no ignition. hahahahahaha ....... greetings from Venezuela. sorry my english
+Linnae Cotton I have a different video on a Toyota or Lexus with misfires all on the same bank that has a vvt solenoid that is sticking and causing 3 cylinders to misfire together. I need to know more,like all the codes to start
Stop Doubting, Just Believe. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Stop doubting ourselves, just believe we can do it? I'm seriously just confused about the message at the end or your video.
So, where the hell IS Bank 1, Sensor 1 located on the 1997 Toyota Avalon. Dealer, shops are all telling me it is the one nearest the radiator, just in from cyl 6. How can that be true when everyone knows that Bank 1 is ALWAYS in Bank 1 - which in the 1997 would be at the FIREWAELL side, ya? It is a 2-wire sensor, btw.
@@jamesdanner7850 thanks for that by the way and and wallets been two years now I got the same kind of readings you have almost identical shows the problem is 1 and 2 but it's actually it's a dual coil and and the one side is faulty and two is taking the brunt of it. the mister I was definitely on one so I got to AutoZone borrowed one of their Cheshire cat switcher it's got a pressure gauge in mm in a meter off-road testing the injectors and injector one salty so I'm changing out all the injectors and all the spark plugs spark plug wires and spark plugs and why not the coils too! well you got to figure it's got 320k+ mikes on it right now.
thats where i think the consensus is. my test lights path to ground, although high in resistance. kept the field from collapsing as fast as it should, allowing the injector to stay on even a ms longer
It kinda acts like an intermittent Ground, I know I had a 98 Avalon that had a an intermittent misfire, it only had 3 coils. The misfire was on cylinder 5, I tried swapping coils, cleaning the injectors, everything, finally I ended up switching injectors 5&6 and the problem followed the injector, definitely a bad injector!
Sorry for the resurrection but when did your car misfire? My girl has an 08 rav4 that has an intermittent cylinder one misfire pretty much only going up hill
i was thinking that at first as well but on the voltage test it looks like the ecm is pulling down cleanly to near zero. but u are right, i am adding an additional ground path that seems to help. albeit thru a light bulb
James everybody on the internet thinks they can do it better. My guess is the test light is holding the restrictive injector open thus fixing the misfire. Good find and thanks for the video.
James, Weird one hey! My theory is that you had a injector with a coil that was partially open ( half the coil not being used ) and with the PCM's pulsing signal it was limiting the amount current flow and it was not creating a strong enough magnetic field to open the injector fast enough or wide enough. Although the PCM signal was doing most of the heavy lifting, when you provided a non pulsing ground, thru the test light, that extra steady 200 or so ma of current flow thru the coil, provided enough current flow to increase the magnetic field and lift it fast enough and wide enough. Just a guess, what do you think? Aside from your camera skills (LOL), your Automotive Diagnostic skills are top notch!
that "extra " bit of ground seems to be the common consensus. i appreciate the positive feedback. and the tolerance of my "exceptional" camera work
i was starting to think you had a bad body to ground. but you kept working on it. good job.
It happened to me once my Tacoma died and came up that my ground connection was bad
Nice find James, that got me thinking on how I could use a test lamps resistance to induce faults in circuits and then see how the waveform looks with the lamp's resistance. Not only do you do a nice job James, you get people to think and have ideas on how to apply things just like your brother. Good job.
thanks. i appreciate the compliment. isn't it cool we can learn stuff by playing around a little?
Great video you and Paul should go into business together.
Plppyy
Great video James
Its nice to see a different approach to fault finding,
as we all know in the repair business, there are many way of faulting a faulty component
Best video I've seen so far explaining misfired on 2000 Avalon. Thanks!
Hi James, thanks for your video, it might help with a 1mz I'm about to look at. and a gift for you.... the dip in the current waveform is the injector mechanically opening and the bump in the voltage waveform is the injector mechanically closing. there is a lot of good info at pico scope auto waveform libery. Thanks -Simon, Automotive research engineer :)
This one is interesting. Good work narrowing it down so quickly to the injector.
My guess would be a mechanical sticking in the pintle, causing restricted flow. When you add your test light, it keeps the injector open longer and makes the misfire better because of the extra fuel.
Good video.
Great that uou put it fown to the injector. I replaced all six on my 98 rx300 as one was faulty. Once you get high mileage in these engines you really want to be proactive with maintenance and start replacing sensors and belts in ine hit if possible. My experience with older classic cars is that once components start to age fail the rest starts to go.
With the test light on the control wire grounded to battery negative it was holding open the injector and it was overcoming the mechanical force that was preventing it delivering fuel.
i could buy that. weird tho huh?
James Danner
Yeah it is for sure.
I did have a play with it on a Ford a while back it made it run real rich to the point of misfiring, but never really tried it in a Toyota.
I'm going to have a play with it on a few different vehicle makes and see what it will do.
If it does work well it maybe worth thinking of doing if we want to drive the fuel mixture rich to look at a response from a O2 sensor when there is no propane at hand. Providing the injector plug is easily accessible. Just a thought.
I never even thought of that. I should have done a good one for comparison. Like i said i was zipping along just looking for the control wire so i could do a flow test next when it happened. Let me know if anything comes out of your research. I did see the 'on time' pulse narrow a ms or so with test light in circuit. Good chance that could have have been the whole bank doing that
Test light/functioning injector phenomenon; a shorted injector pintle wont energized/open as much as designed due to loss of current to heat in its coil winding but when the test light is hooked up to its circuit in parallel it become an easier path to the current/voltage thus stabilizing the the shorted coil and allowing it to partially functioning during idle/low demand but this wont work on a heavier demand duty cycle as it wont allow much fuel to pass through.
Good video Danner keep it up
Don't see that too often , nice presentation Danner Thanks
thanks steve
Regarding your use of the Snap On "low amp probe" and current ramping the KG injector, the dip is known as the "seagull effect" (aka the "pintle hump"). This shows when the injector is starting to open. Typical diagnosis detecting a bad injector, as you know, is when there is initially any vertical climbing prior to the diagonal ramp. The waveform of the bad injector, with the exaggerated "seagull effect," seems to be an additional means of detecting when an injector is starting to go bad.
thanks for watching. I also appreciate the technical feedback
johnwrench4speed
The misfire goes away because you input -negative feed on the negative pulse side of the fuel injector forcing the injector to open the fuel stream to the cyliinder, that is kind of dangeorius thou because if it remains like that during idle for a long period of time it may cause a cylinder hidrolock. Excelent vid James! Thanks.
Glad to see that your back. Looking forward to your hybrid video.
I paused scanner dancers video and came here, like he said! And subscribed! ;)
sweet. hope that nickname don't stick. Ha. gotta love spell check
Great video and diagnosis James. I enjoyed that.
Great job James
What did I miss
Did you replace a part ?
What was the problem then ????
Exactly what is the final prognosis
Awesome video James, thanks for taking the time to share this.
Good video . I could see where you were working on the engine . I could see the data and graph on your scanner screen . I could hear your narration even over the engine noise but despite the excellent filming tech. my eyes were rolling back in my head.. . If you and thousands of other UA-cam instructors could tell the viewer , an inexperience viewer in my case. the conclusion .. That is what was the cause that you found for the misfire early in the video. before you get to the reasoning , the experimentation. they trial and error exploring .. /By me knowing that you found the problem and what was the problem I can keep focused on the video even when you are talking about things I don't understand.
I can understand and appreciate not wanting to waste time on a video, only to find out it's inconclusive. unfortunately I am filming while I work. I don't stage a problem I already figured out. u r just watching live in essence. I will keep that in mind in the future. thank you for participating
Thanks for the video
So a good test might be just to ground the control circuit of the injector and see if the misfire goes away. A good test If ya know what your doin and ya can get to the injectors. PS like your no nonsense approach you seem to make it fast and easy. You have a lot of good tips.
thanks for the compliment. i do waste a little time on the video filming part and do a few things i probably wouldnt do normally just to get more content. but i like doing it and learn in the process. thanks again for watching
Good vid! James., As your brother do it. I enjoy it a lot
Thanks for the video 'Danner' - really interesting.
I have 00 es300 same engine same issues. I’ve changed out ignition coils and all injectors and Vt solenoid on both sides of engine. Still getting same outcome but I know my cat on rear needs replaced. Gonna do that today possibly,,,,, get back to u.
So what was the solution or is there one ????
grasias por el video espero que pongas mas y ensena lo que estas reparando
Interesting with the test light.
Did you try ohm testing the bad injector and comparing it to the ohms of the new injector? Would this determine if the coil is failing or there is an issue with clogging? Injectors can be 'flushed and cleaned' fairly easily off the engine
i did ohm check the faulty one and one that worked. both had 15.1 ohms. but when key was on, power in ckt, the bad one dropped to 13, the good one didn't change. i know that's probably not a legit test but add that to theory building. i honestly don't know if a sticking injector would be visible on a graphing scope. thanks for feedback
James Danner I'm pretty sure that 2.1 ohm difference is enough evidence to say the injector was failing. Glad you checked it under load, cause that's something I was wondering. Thanks for replying and posting the video
James Danner James, your ohm test revealing a 2.1 ohm drop on the bad one, to me, is enough to confirm what I originally said about it being partially open ( Only half the coil being used ) under load, and you provided that extra boost of current ( With the Test Light ), providing a stronger magnetic field to open the injector all the way. It had to be at least, partially open, not completely open, or there would had been no current flow at all, when you put the test light to it. In my theory the injector was just barely failing, barely! Keep in mind, as I said before, the PCM was doing most of the heavy lifting and giving it the proper pulse-width, well sort of ? As far as detecting a stuck injector on a scope, I would think, maybe!, you would see a rise in amperage to a point and then it would flat-line, if it was sticking? Just Theory Building! LOL !
Billy R After rereading my previous posts, I realized I kept saying a partial open in the injector. I apologize, what I meant to say is a partial short in the coil internally to it's self not to ground, causing only half the coil to be used. But if there was a total open in the coil it still would have no current flow with or without the test light!
Billy R if it was partially shorted,wouldnt the amp ramp sharply increase instead of dipping down like it did? sorry to beat a dead horse but learning by asking.
hey I had a question my car a 1997 toyota avalon says misfire on 6 fuel injections do I gotta change all fuel injections or just 1 ?
Hey James, GREAT VID,
But I just wanted to give you my input & kinda similar Sit., W/ a 1997, Altima, kept having a, Mis - Firing Code, on Cyl. #1, no Matter what I Tried, #1, #1, Long story short, took out the - - INJ. - For #1, The INJ. Was fine, Ohms. Were right on Specs.,
BUT What I did Find, was an INJ. "O-RING", The inner rubber of the - O--Ring, was split--broken perfectly & was Covering the - - 2-holes of the INJ. IE. CAUSING-- Restriction, there - for, Causing the - - Mis - Fire!, NO problem just went to Nissan & Replaced all, 4-- 'O-Rings' (4-cyl.) Eng.
Put it back together, Erased the Code, Everything back Norm, running 🏃 like a Champ!!!
i wonder if the test light gave it a bit better ground and slight current flow increase on the faulty injector force it to perform a tiny bit better again?
thats about all i could come up with as well . thanks for the interest
Zip-tie the test light in real tight and call it fixed!!!
😂👌
thanks....love the problem solving....can you do damage to the injectors sending thru too much current when gounding externally the injectors ?...thanks again...bob
Paul said maybe a peak and hold style that grounds fully initially then limits the current flow with a duty cycle or higher resistance to ground.which u would see on a ramp test as an initial rise then a flat top. or diesels . but mine, the pcm clearly pulled to total ground as evidenced by the 0 volt line on the waveform. so my guess is no. cause u wont be sending any more current than would be done thru the pcm. that being said, i wouldn't hold it to ground for an extended time.just pulse. you would at minimum fill that cyl with fuel...bad.
Hey James! I have this same car and its not coming up. No start actually. I have replaced the fuel pump but it seems no power at the pump and the relays seems to work fine. I would be glad to hear any suggestions.
+Suleiman Adams been on vacation last 2 weeks. If you still have the problem, I'll look into some wiring diagrams Monday
That would be wonderful. The car has been sitting down for some weeks and i'm running out of ideas as i am very new to the DIY lifestyle. Would be looking forward to any help or suggestions. Thanks
+Suleiman Adams what year is the avalon
2000
+Suleiman Adams so if you think we r dealing with the fuel pump. It gets power from the
CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY which is behind the drivers kick panel.
My wiring diagram shows terminals 1,2,3 and 5
1 should have power from the ignition switch
Run and start
5 should have power from the EFI relay in the left front of engine compartment
2 is the ground control from the computer
3 is the one feeding pump
So if u have a test light ,, hook it to ground and with the C.O. relay unplugged you should see power on one with key on run and on crank
Another should show power too but it may be only for a few seconds on run but constant during cranking.
If u hook the test light to battery positive,
One ( terminal 3) should light up the test light confirming there is a ground path thru the pump
The last one, no 2, may light up test light for a short time when u initially turn key on but definitely should when cranking
Start there
How do u know which cylinder it is
Hello dear my Avaloon 2000 she drink Allot of petrol wen i open Air condetion Ac, can yiu help me abut this proplem?
I have a 2002 avalon and mine seems to want to cut out at around 41-45mph so I changed all plugs and coils except number 1 very difficult to get to for me one moment the car is running as it should for sometime and entire day even had check engine light go out completely well now it's back on and still doing it as it pleases then it begins to flash and code say random multiple misfires 135 so I change all except one any chance it just may very well be that last one I haven't changed yet ???
I have an 03 avalon and I'm getting mine looked at tomorrow. I have the same problem. I have been looking around and the EGR valve might be stuck to open.
If it's the whole bank. 1 3 and 5 suspect a vvt solenoid sticking on. I have a video on that as well
Is yours misfiring all on one bank? 1 3 and 5 or 2 4 and 6? I have a video on that symptom on Toyota with a vvt solenoid sticking on causing this
@@jamesdanner7850 mine is misfiring on 135
Find my Toyota/Lexus vvt fault video. It will help explain
Great job James interesting.
I have this exact car with the exact problem but im unsure what to do? Are you charging the cylinders? Cuz i have 4 bad ones
+Linnae Cotton it wouldn't be cylinders. Maybe you mean the ignition coils? Do you know what all the code numbers are?
+James Danner no i dont. I forgot
+James Danner ill be back with more info
+James Danner do you have to take the engine out to work on 1,3 and 5?
You had some specialized equipment there. But for those of us with only the OBD II scanner tool. If the scanner points to a cylinder misfiring, can't we just put in a new spark plug into that cylinder and then swap the coil with a known good(front bank, easy to get to) coil. If the misfire on the scanner moves to the swapped location, the injector was bad. Disclaimer. It has been 35 years since I was a professional mechanic. It was carburetors at that time.
I had alternator timing belt water pump and spark plugs changed and car is still shaking I just ordered ignition coils should fix the problem?
QuadRiderHonda Might wanna make sure the car was timed correctly before you start spending money and throwing parts at it buddy
Did it made your car. Like when you go it didn't wanted go. As much when u drive ?
Kathy Bm sexy
iv a 03 avencis starts perfect in morning at runs great aslong as driving but when stop for lights or roundabout check engine light comes on n it wont go I have to turn car off n then start it but takes ages tryin to start n av to av foot to floor any help greatly appreciated
I need to know what the code is. What model car?
Excelente dude, thanks for sharing..
Great video! Seen patterns with shorted injectors, but can't remember seeing a partially open(theorizing)? one before. Keep up the great work,thanks for the lesson.
add more to your theory. good and bad injectors both had 15.1 ohms but with key on the bad dropped to 13 and good stayed
James Danner Was agreeing with what Billy R. was saying,I think static ohms was one thing but when amperage started flowing is when your partial open showed up as seen by the amp ramp.
Don Mappin Another theory by my fellow mechanic is a sticking injector.
Don Mappin True but, if it was sticking with no open it would not increase amperage! Yea Maybe?
do you think it should have an inductive kick on the voltage pattern at about the same instance that the dip in the amp pattern is?
To see misfire data, did you look in the generic side or the OEM side?
***** i was on the oem side
oh i see. does all makes have misfire counters on the oem side?
Unfortunately no. At least with the snap on. Some fords u need to use the cylinder contribution functional test. Some only say yes or no on a misfire pid
thanks so much!
I guess I'm super late, and I actually starting watching the second video first lol, oh well I haven't seen the solution yet but I'll make my guess now. It's a bad injector for sure, I'm gonna say the coil has shorted internally and adding the test light in a series parallel circuit put the resistance closer to where it needs to be to open the injector. I suspect scanner danner will get a waveform in second video, I also suspect there will be no injector open hump. Fingers crossed.
All real good guesses. I know there was a real aggravated hump with test light in play. thanks for watching
would have like to see ohm test on injector and flow test on car ... or if you have equipment flow test off car would be cool video. tell your brother take that inj and hook it up off car in flow bench with scope and show us the pintle and test light theory. that would be really cool...
I wish I had the equipment and, more importantly, the time to do that stuff . unfortunately that part is long gone. maybe the next one I see, I'll give it to him for class.
How about lean misfire diag using a sec. ign wave form on that missing cyl ?
i never did that yet. i bet i could screw that up enough for a two part vid with paul. Ha
Your videos and knowledge are awesome ! If Ya wanna hear some screw ups I have a few over the last nearly 40 years workin on cars !!!! Maybe you should have a video having guys listing there top #1 mistake ???? Remember old Chryslers that had left hand lug nut threads on the left side only ? I broke 2 off before I figured out what I was doing !!!! OMG.
Ohh. Been there before. Ha. Thanks for the feedback.much appreciated
I have a 2000 Toyota Avalon xl that just stop firing run find the day before what can cause that
+Keith Baldwin does it run on starting fluid? Like a no fuel scenario. Or not, like a no spark. I have a video on a Toyota where one of the coils shorted out and shuts the car down. U have any codes?
James Danner it is getting fuel but no fire to the coals or wires
Hello, I need your urgent help, I have a toyota prado, when I use the flashing lights, does not work, but the instrument panel lights (cluster) turn on as if I use the navigation lights. sorry my english, greeting from venezuela.
cool. few things. are flashing lights turn signals? and navigation lights, are they just the backlighting of the gauge cluster?
and never heard of a prado. maybe not American market. but it sounds like you have a grounding problem if the turn signals are back feeding thru cluster lighting
k. it looks like a land cruiser here. What year is it
there are grounds inside on both left and right kick panels by ur feet. or one under the hood, on the back of the right cylinder head.
hi bro, how are you, greetings. I disassembled the fuse box, check all wiring harness, replace the cluster, button flashing lights, we put candles and pray much, hahaha .. but the problem persists, now check this out, I turn on the lights, high and low , Remove the fuse and where supposedly should go negative current passes positive current. is this sucking positive current from somewhere but can not find the short circuit. when I turn on the flashing lights, the cluster turns like turning the ignition swicht. it is a toyota prado fzj90 5VZ 6 cyl. landcruiser in Venezuela. I have also one toyota tacoma 2007 Electronic ignition button when I turn the truck, lights brake lights but no ignition. hahahahahaha ....... greetings from Venezuela. sorry my english
Can i just replace the cylinders???
+Linnae Cotton I have a different video on a Toyota or Lexus with misfires all on the same bank that has a vvt solenoid that is sticking and causing 3 cylinders to misfire together. I need to know more,like all the codes to start
Stop Doubting, Just Believe. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Stop doubting ourselves, just believe we can do it? I'm seriously just confused about the message at the end or your video.
Partially blocked injector??
I had same ticking noise and it was loose spark plug
Thanks James
So, where the hell IS Bank 1, Sensor 1 located on the 1997 Toyota Avalon. Dealer, shops are all telling me it is the one nearest the radiator, just in from cyl 6. How can that be true when everyone knows that Bank 1 is ALWAYS in Bank 1 - which in the 1997 would be at the FIREWAELL side, ya?
It is a 2-wire sensor, btw.
+Dan Lo Fat bank 1 sensor one is firewall side
@@jamesdanner7850 thanks for that by the way and and wallets been two years now I got the same kind of readings you have almost identical shows the problem is 1 and 2 but it's actually it's a dual coil and and the one side is faulty and two is taking the brunt of it.
the mister I was definitely on one so I got to AutoZone borrowed one of their Cheshire cat switcher it's got a pressure gauge in mm in a meter off-road testing the injectors and injector one salty so I'm changing out all the injectors and all the spark plugs spark plug wires and spark plugs and why not the coils too!
well you got to figure it's got 320k+ mikes on it right now.
My thought is restricted fuel a clogged injector when you ground the injector it stay open all time and the cylinder gets enough fuel.
thats where i think the consensus is. my test lights path to ground, although high in resistance. kept the field from collapsing as fast as it should, allowing the injector to stay on even a ms longer
Great videos you make by the way. Would be nice to test the injector spray pattern
the wierd hump in the injector waveform was the pintle sticking. maybe your brother could chime in
He did. We did a video together on his channel critiquing my video
Nice, I enjoy your videos. You good at getting to the point
So when are you and Paul gonna get a reality show
U mean like The Danner Diagnostic Dynasty?
We could like blow up air bags and sight in a 50 cal at 1000 yards using my controversial beeping test light as a target for comic relief. Im in
Lol he'll ya that's television at it's finest
James Danner That would be pretty cool!
if a person can understand what he is doing and the results, fine. But a normal person that is not a car mechanic cannot understand it.
It kinda acts like an intermittent Ground, I know I had a 98 Avalon that had a an intermittent misfire, it only had 3 coils. The misfire was on cylinder 5, I tried swapping coils, cleaning the injectors, everything, finally I ended up switching injectors 5&6 and the problem followed the injector, definitely a bad injector!
Sorry for the resurrection but when did your car misfire? My girl has an 08 rav4 that has an intermittent cylinder one misfire pretty much only going up hill
@@eflem7708 If my memory serves me right, I believe it happened after the engine heated up.
Looks like a sticky or floating injector pintle
right on. that's the common consensus
weird is the injector ground controlled?
yea. and the test light evidently added a supplemental ground path and helped hold that failing injector open just a little extra
Good videos, I will definitely keep watching.
Thank you
Thumbs up
+Endelt1 thanks
without seeing the solution or end of video yet, im gonna say that you are missing what you're adding, ground...lets see how my guess is!
i was thinking that at first as well but on the voltage test it looks like the ecm is pulling down cleanly to near zero. but u are right, i am adding an additional ground path that seems to help. albeit thru a light bulb
Fuck i hope mine aint fuel injector, looks like expensive as hell to fix ..... damn i got a 2004 only 92k miles
Maybe ur engine is not grounded correctly.
Hard to fix V6 , F wheel drive cars.
Easy fix. Get you boss and ask him w.t.f. is wrong with it!
Lol dancers! Hahahah
you guys gotta stop using this tool.. go with maxidas it does way more.. especially on European cars
not sure i ever heard of a maxidas. what is it?
vvt problem
I have a video on that too. same engine in a lexus
Bad video. Technician doe not know what he is doing.
+Diego Navarro .. thanks, glad you liked it
James everybody on the internet thinks they can do it better. My guess is the test light is holding the restrictive injector open thus fixing the misfire. Good find and thanks for the video.