Do England's tactics limit their potential?
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Welcome to The Athletic FC's UA-cam channel, where best-in-class journalism meets video.
Joe Devine, Jon Mackenzie and JJ Bull discuss Gareth Southgate's England and their underwhelming form so far at Euro 2024. They look at the tactics, how the team can potentially improve, what players have impressed, and preview Saturday's clash against Switzerland in the quarter-finals.
#euro2024 #england #garethsouthgate
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Additional footage sourced from AP Newsroom - Спорт
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Would be nice to hear from the team as to why they think the England senior team “set up” (coaches, manager and so forth) don’t take more cues or learnings from how the successful youth teams play - like the u21 team that won the Euros exactly one year ago. They have no issues progressing the ball. Also, why England have reverted back to playing like this because England didn’t play like this beating Italy twice in the qualifiers, or I don’t think in the last World Cup - in contrast to JJ Bull’s Scottish opinion 😂 (Team put 6 past Iran, smashed Wales and Senegal, and went toe to toe with France. One bad game against USA).
Bring back the tifo football podcast
The Althetic really tried a SuperLeague breakaway and the fans just stopped watching. This is good but we want Tifo Football Podcast back
the podcast hasn't stopped
@@smokealotofpotamous1864 what are you babbling about?
@@T.E.S.S. the athletic fc podcast is so dead bro
@@Dylan-em1zc yh the athletic pod has zero vibes.
I miss the old tifo podcast. Hands down it was the best football podcast. Anyone remember the post game World Cup streams? Please bring it back.
I was hoping they'd do something similar, they were amazing. The end of tournament quiz also.
I need to see JJ in every national team top
Loved those
Do you think football is some sort of game for people to have fun? It's serious and needs to be treated seriously.
the post match streams are definitely missing from this tournament. they were so much fun
We gather here once again to remember what they took from us. Rest in peace tifo.
JJ consistently ignoring Joe’s jokes is hilarious
We all try to.
Great podcast and the chemistry of the trio. They should try making this a weekly or more frequent podcast and call it tifo
We need to spam them with compliments till they listen. You hear that Joe!
I missed this format a lot, great to have you guys back together, even if only for the Euros
Every time the video cuts to the wide shot of all three of them I immediately look at JJ’s laptop hanging over the edge of the table.
Thanks for the free anxiety 😢
It's now causing me anxiety too. Been watching for 20 minutes and didn't even notice.
Does it fall? It looks like it might. One slip of the forearm from JJ and the anxiety is over.
DO IT JJ!
@@John1873-- Intrusive thoughts
The juxtaposition of jokes and lightheartedness against the smart and detailed analysis just works and is a good format. Glad to see you guys back at it.
Wish it had more break dancing though
"i'm smiling because I'm sad" - I felt that in my soul 🤣
Why can’t we have this weekly? Or even twice a week? Best football show/podcast out there
More of this please
There will be more!
I said this months ago. Theyve always had Rashford or Sterling to run beyond Kane, Gordon is the only profile who does this. If Shaw isn't going to be fit, Saka has to play on the left. He can be a wingback rather than fullback. You can negate this with either Rice dropping in or Walker tucking in(or play Gomez). You could then play Trent who can move to his favourite right handside. He'll have options if you have Gordon stretching defences. This will also make opposition presses more wary.
Walker has been tucking in all tournament, I think he needs to start overlapping to stretch the pitch and give more space to the players inside such as Saka or if Bellingham pulls right
Agree with all of this, but I would go with Stones at LCB, Konsa at RCB and Walker at RB to make the three. I'm a biased Villa fan, but Konsa is so underrated still.
I think Watkins probably makes the most runs in behind, and beating the offside trap, but Gordon is the quickest, either of them would help a lot
They've also had problems retaining possession in the opposition half, and the GENIUS Southgate dropped England's best player in Grealish who retains possession and keeps the tempo going.
Or we could play Wharton there.
Keep Saka at RW
I had to rewatch at least half of this video as I kept getting distracted watching the Atheltic logo cycle through flags.
As a neutral non-European watching the euros I see a clear distinction between three categories of teams; a shared understanding of football with lots of talented players but no clear superstars in Spain and Germany, no shared understanding of football great number of talented players with a number of superstars in England, France and Portugal and finally teams with no shared understanding of football and a few talented players and no superstars but with a clear tactical set up that has come from managers that were able to utilize their teams to more than the sum of their parts in Switzerland, Austria, Turkey and the Netherlands. It’s also telling that the best managers right now come from Spain and Germany now while France and England hardly produce any top level coaches with Portugal producing tacticians that aren’t a product of a specific school of thought but are mavericks with their very own ideas. The Spanish and German national team are likely to sustain success as long as their approach to coaching remains the same and are unlikely to rely on golden generations to win trophies while France, England and Portugal will always need to have a golden generation with clear superstars and even that is no guarantee of success.
The version of England that has a proper left back, a proper left sided forward, and which uses Mainoo.
"He's a terrible troll- that's what we call him in the office..." 😂
The rotating flag in the top right hurts my eyes.
i have missed joe's chaos in any given football chat
No one ran in behind on the left during Southgate’s tenure better than Sterling and Rashford. They both have been better on the left for England than Foden ever has been. Gordon should be given a shot on 60mins against Switzerland, if Foden still isn’t firing on the left.
Yes, Southgate cooked his own goose leaving them out.
The problem is the great unwashed just scream "pick players on form" if he'd picked Sterling or Rashford he'd of been slaughtered
They complete miss the fact that Rashford is off form for Man U, not England
Gareth’s problem is this - the effort he’s made to unite the players and create a harmonious environment, understandable, leave him hamstrung when he needs to make a controversial decision like dropping Foden - he thinks it could affect team morale
Gareth needs to grow some cajones and make a tough tactical decision and OWN it with his players
This is an interesting point. I also think the bigger his stars become, the harder things get for Southgate. He’s really a youth team manager.
..meanwhile, in another corner of The Athletic offices, there's a group of men doing a podcast while having no fun whatsoever!
They were successful in making this one less funny too. Thanks a lot Times Corp.
The special relation has been the root of most (all? lol) evil for the past 100 years.
1776 again please!
Yours truly,
The World
Lol Joe Devine actually had the best answer I think with dropping Saka left back and Gomez for Guehi as Gomez is more comfortable defending that left hand space. Then either a back 5 with Trent on the right or Palmer on the right or Gordon on the left and move Foden right. Not taking the option of dropping Bellingham next to Rice into account.
Joe JJ and John on a podcast is so entertaining class chemistry
Glad to see some Euros coverage again! I've liked the transfer talk, but during those videos, I can't help but feel they seem out of place in this remarkable tournament.
Also, very interesting point about how the midblock and smaller nations' greater bravery to press from one may be the star of the tournament!
5 at the back. Trent and saka at wingbacks to offer width and crossing ability. Gallagher to hound Xhaka. Walker, stones and Konsa as the back three.
I dont like any plan where Gordon is on the bench but this one does sound decent. they will be a different sort of team thah we have played do far. i cant seem them sitting so deep
I dont generally like any plan w Gallagher on pitch, bt Im this instance it’s not totally stoopid.
What did Joe Gomez do to get forgotten by everyone.
Terrible idea. As Jon explained, the 5 at the back is essentially the same system but youre putting trent and saka in position theyre uncomfortable in.
Gallagher is not a starter. He's a finisher. As we saw against slovakia when he came on. Just let him relentlessly press tired legs during final 10 minutes.
Only one of Foden and Bellingham can play together in the current formation. Does Southgate have the balls to drop one of them? If he drops one of them for Gordan, the team becomes balanced and actually pose a threat to the tournament.
Beyond this tournament, England need to clarify their football 'culture'. By that I mean what is their footballing Identity. It is quite clear that the biggest problem for the national team has been this.
For a series of tournaments now, it has been very easy to clarify the way in which the best teams will play. Spain, Brazil, Germany, France, I could go on. It is because they have a very clear playing culture. It's so easy for their players who play for various leagues to come back in to the national set up because they know what the system is. If anything, these teams have less rigid tactical profiles because their players were so well cultivated fundamentally at the lower levels. I'm surprised as to how England struggles with this when a majority of their players are in the same league. It's concerning.
This leads on to my next point. the players that come in to England are no doubt technically proficient. But they seem to lack confidence and soundness technically when playing. There is to much of the CBs holding on to the ball and passing negatively and wing players and midfielders don't feel confident enough to link up with 1 - 2s to break down defences efficiently to score. It's worse when you have a striker who despite their strong technical ability does not want to stay up and lacks wingers who like to get in to space to cause damage from playing off him. I feel that they thrive with rigid tactics and not when playing off each other in a free flowing manner that you recognise amongst the competitive teams.
England don't have to play tika taka to play interesting, damaging and engaging football. They do however need to be sharper and smarter on the ball and that comes with confidence with how to play with each other, knowing your compatriots abilities. This tournament has been so negative because they hold the ball poorly.
Physically, I believe England is fine. Mentally, Southgate has made them stronger than ever. Furthermore, we know England can press. It has been a key reason as to why they have made it this far in spite of their inconsistency in pressing.
But if the FA seriously want England to stop seeming delusional on the International stage, they need to look at the technical quality of players so that there is less profile clashing and more cohesiveness when on the ball.
France have played 4 games and haven't actually scored a goal yet, people just love to hate on England lol
@@dariusftw3378 kind of a moot point, and an evident lie.
In spite of their difficulties they have faced credible challenges on a regular basis and consistently show what they country is fantastic at in footballing terms. Pacey wingers with exceptional technical ability. Fantastic midfielders that match their intensity with great chemistry and ball playing ability. Defenders that are intelligent and physically dominating. Above all they know how to press as a team and work together to break down one quite well. I perceive their issue to be a finishing one which makes a lot of sense when you have a dreadful striker like Thuram leading.
What can you say about the England team though? (this question is not rhetorical)
Furthermore, what I have stated is hardly hate. Wanting a more cohesive and clearer culture is not hate. In addition to this I recognised strengths of the team towards the end.
Just need to sack Southgate.
@@dariusftw3378but france has won in recent memory so they are given the benefit of the doubt
@@car9melo lol england were winning in the final last time, it's just a weighted random number generator at the end of the day
Joe's "he's playing 120" absolutely made my day, lovely work
Good stream guys. Many hearty chuckles
I have honestly missed you guys during this tournament. Points are Bad is so Tifo and I love it. Have you guys ever considered doing a podcast? I think you’d all be really good.
What a fantastic video, thank you, I really enjoyed it.
JJ bull should definitely make a song collab with Jon Mackenzie and brink Tacticos around the world into existence
JJ almost concealed his Scottish contempt for the English side
“Oh yeah we’re live” JJ smelled a long Lord of the Rings tangent coming and he cut it out like Declan Rice hoovering up a loose ball
"I see everyone being happy with how England played when they were winning games" I'm sorry what? I have only ever seen complete full disdain for the way Southgate has played the entire time at England. Not sure where you have seen that JJ.
not really, it’s only since the final of the euros that people have turned on him, even at the last World Cup it was still a majority of praise
@@celtic69 just not even close to being true, everyone has hated how he’s played forever. The majority of England fans have always been very wary of Southgate.
@@celtic69 Definitely not. The Euros yes. Since that was the only achievement England had since the 60s. But since the World Cup majority of the english fans wanted Terrorgate out. People were angry when he was given a new contract after the World Cup.
@@celtic69 only 3 years ago then? that's a significant amount of time.
@@thejoshway764 tournaments are only every 2 years, it’s not the same
Great analysis guys, ive been saying all along we need to play a 1212121 I call it the Chuckle brother formation and starts with Stones at CB, triangle formations all the way up the pitch, and you play 1,2's all the way up the pitch, it does require tall striking focused players, so ideally we would have 10 Peter Crouch's. But think this formation really has some legs, let me know what you think! ✌️
I’m sure all of you already knew this, but I’m saying it anyway. Joe is the most important part of this podcast.
i love joes humor and delivery. ahh such a lovable lot these three
love this format! keep it up boys
Man I love the shots when it pans out to all of them and Joe has a funny reaction
Which software do you guys use for showing the tactical stuff on that screen ?
Best quote of the entire video: “Are you saying Trippier doesn’t have a gravitational pull? 🥴”
The Bellingham-Foden situation is the Gerad-Lampard of this generation. When you have so many good players you have to make the tough decision to bench some for the sake of balance.
I mean you can play a formation with 2 ams
Not with kane also dropping in@@aeroplus4667
You guys are great!
John you’re so in love with tactics. Real Madrid has broken your heart 😂😂
What an absolute flipping treat!
Who thinks GS is going to play the same team, less MG due to suspension
The version without a starstruck deer-caught-in-the-headlights for a manager.
Are you not allowed to use clips of the games? I feel like not having actual examples of what you're talking about hurts your analysis. Fourfourtwo does this much better.
tbh if this was a podcast it would be the only podcast EVER that I would watch
I agree with the 3-4-3 formation, but it makes it harder to bring on Palmer etc.
Swiss will also adjust in game if we play 3-4-3. They will as JJ says overload TAA, and we will STILL have problems on the Left.
If Luke Shaw was fit then a lot of Southgates problems are fixed. We would still be tactically deficient and probably lose against Spain / Germany etc, however at least the FEEL of the team would be better.
Southgate just keeps making it so complicated. He needs to reduce the mental load on his players and stop playing them out of positions. Be Chilllwell would have been fine at Left-Back! Why the obsession with Trippier?!
Hopefully we keep it simple.
Going to be a tough day Saturday.
If England played Trent at RWB and have Walker as the right side of back 3 to help defensively while Trent plays his forward passes and crossess!!
Anyone else bothered by how off-center the rotating flags are behind the Athletic logo? Also, bring back the tifo football podcast!
What footy software is that on those tablets?
It's not about winning it's about having fun which England are last place in
How about actually taking a fit left back? Like Ben Chilwell, or Tyrick Mitchell, or both?
That might help.
Just a thought.
Chilwell? He has played a grand total of 12 minutes since the end of March... Mitchell though should have been taken
@@sinksinkswim 12 more than Luke Shaw
You could sum up Englands problems in 6 words "No one is making any runs".
It really doesn't matter who's in the team or what the structure/tactical setup is.
Until the players start to show some off the ball goalscoring/creative ambition we will continue to be reliant on moments of individual brilliance and the odds are that won't see us beat Switzerland.
I hate this notion of teams getting ‘found out’. What does that even mean?
this was fantastic
England could be saved with a formation change. I will not be elaborating further
Feel like Maddison would have made a huge difference in this team, even though at the time I felt alright about him not being in the squad. Our biggest issue is a failure to get the ball through the midfield towards the attackers, something he would have helped a lot with
Wharton is the answer
would love fowler's celebration next to cantona behind john!
Bring this trio back!!!
It limits their attack. But it makes them more solid defensively. Attack wins you games. Defence wins you tournaments.
Didi Hamann says there are too many individuals on the team and not enough "journeymen" any truth to that interpretation?
Another striker, exactly, Toney or Watkins. Play either Foden or Bellingham and then you have balance. It is difficult to drop one of the 2 best players in the world but for balance it is necessary.
2:04 - 2:11 is my favourite bit
The rest of Scotland and I look forward to England changing tactics against a team who have about half a dozen players at the same club side
The podcast we needed.
There's an easy answer to that thumbnail. With this bunch of players, the team that can win the Euros is any one that doesn't have Gareth Southgate in charge!
Before the 2018 tournament, lots of pundits were saying, "England will lose against the first decent team they play, which will probably be Colombia".
After England got past Colombia, history was rewritten so that Colombia were always a weak side that England should have beaten easily.
Colombia were decent but not a top team. We won on penalties. Top sides beat other top sides convincingly, by multiple goals. England don’t do that. That is the southgate effect.
@@DH-bg1qoTop sides beat other top sides convincingly by multiple goals?
@@TotalitarianDemocrat the best sides dominate other top sides. England muddle through. Spain beat Italy 4-0 in the 2012 final
@@DH-bg1qo That's very rare for a major tournament final
I love the way Jon talks about England and Southgate he’s clearly just so fed up with it it’s making me laugh in a depressing way
Like every solution he gives he’s like Southgate will never do that so let’s just pray for some luck😂
The version that fires Southgate
JJ can never hide his bias man 😂
Could you make this but make it 8 hours long and also do 3 of them every single day until I die
Best podcast on here
'Diooogo Costa darling' 😅
The chemistry in the studio is much better than the one we're seeing from those footballing lads.
God forgive me, I'm so sorry
JJs golden gen solution benches that David Beckham fella. Just like his current gen solution benches Saka
Scottish, uncapped. Had an English grandad. Can finish in under 30 seconds. Need more finishers? Give me a shout.
GL!
bring back the podcast boys it was so good
This was fantastic. I miss the old Tifo podcast
God i miss this style of podcast. So much better.
Bring it back, Sing it back to me!!
Trippier is Newcastle’s 5th best left-back option, and this man is starting him there. It really is funny how he’s somehow found himself as the manager of the group of players.
I wouldn't be entirely sure Mainoo will start against Switzerland because he played too many forward passes for Southgates liking against Slovakia...
HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AND WELCOME TO THE TIFO FOOTBALL PODCAST
This question implies you think there are underlying tactics. Gareth won't have that.
I love this
Was jj trying to tell the folks at home what points are bad is?
The tournament will nearly be over on the 11th so don't see how they'll increase in frequency
In my humble opinion we have a lack of penetration. Put simply either Foden or Kane comes off for the likes of Gordon or Ollie Watkins. Frankly both should come on but that’s just my opinion.
Missed the podcast so much
It's coming home (not this year) 😭
U think mainoo is less press resistant than Wharton? Perhaps, bt I suspect it’s marginal. Issue in the last game was the defence would not pass out to him! And when they did it was after endless dithering/ touches.
Was Jon Mackenzie from tifo or from the athletic before?
28:23 Joe possessed by a sad Owl
Southgate is managing England like someone who retakes the same test and somehow does worse
I hope southgate sees this