I purchased and did a video review of one of the first units. I had problems with the original tips as I reported in the video. Pace had a representative at my door 2 days later to collect the faulty tips and replace them. Can't ask for much better customer service than that. Have been using it daily since then and have not encountered any other problems. A great unit that doesn't disappoint. As for the "no strain relief", Pace has never used them. I have Pace irons that are decades old and are still fine. They use really good quality cords. And FYI, they will be releasing a mini tweezer that works with this unit eventually.
I had a similar outcome with RIGOL one of my probes for my DS4000 Scope was faulty, I was out of the manufacturers warrantee, but I contacted them anyway due to you never know and after a couple of days they sent me out a newer version of the probe absolutely free (saving me £200) and I didn't even have to return the old probe, so I now have spare parts for my other 3 probes. So I am very happy with the support I got from their EU Support Staff. I have also had bad support from other companies where they just don't care once they get your money.
Same experience here with Rigol. I was pulling the grabber hook off of a probe and the probe body came apart. I put a call in to Rigol and they sent me a replacement with zero hassle. I really didn't expect that level of service from a lower-tier Chinese manufacturer, but they're obviously trying hard to impress.
You've never worked high reliability applications, if you are asking that question. But then, I was trained under the NASA standards for space flight use... During my training, my soldering was perfection or it was a fail. I have seen the new standards, even the current highest level industry standards make me cringe...
Flux can cause the circuit to fail eventually if left on the board, some can be acidic and cause corrosion and/or it can retain moisture and present a low impedance and basically short out some types of circuits via leakage current... it’s better to clean it to avoid problems down the road even if it’s a “no clean” flux...
Regarding the buttons maintaining their molding link. Reduction on BOM parts.....only need to manage (1) part vs (3) parts. Actually a very smart detail from someone at Pace.
PACE Worldwide-AC You guys really need to fix the ground bounce on your thermocouple readings. That's pretty nasty and is why the readings are all over the place.
PACE Worldwide-AC nice to see you guys actively listening to comments/complaints in places people actually comment on. Anyway fantastic product for the price.
I've been astral-projecting myself into your bedroom at night for the past several weeks, whispering suggestions while you sleep for you to review the new Pace ADS200 and you have delivered.
Since astral projecting seems to work, can you please suggest to Dave to send me that Gossen Metrawatt. Just convince him it's probes are dull, that should be enough. :)
I did control work for many years. It looks like they are probably doing a closed PID loop control and are displaying the instantaneous temperature they driving to instead of the temperature of the tip. The drive will overshoot for a few moments of and on to try to reach the target temperature quickly.
That's exactly what I was thinking, that fluctuation might just be in the heating element itself. What they are probably doing, is over driving it with PWM to get the temp up there as quickly as possible, then sample the tip temp to make sure it's within range. It's a totally acceptable method.
I've had firmware 1.4 for a month, nice update. Display's not jumpy and ISB can be set for zero-delay, although I prefer less up-down heat cycling, since when finishing joints, I often test for strength and elect a reflow. Also, temperature set points are now 1 degree apart, not 5 as shown here (so I guess you can do science melt experiments with this too..). I'm also impressed by the realistic pricing on replacement parts. Example: The silicon o-ring near the front end of the handle costs just $3 USD for a pack of 5 (that's like a ten-year supply!), and I don't need to change mine yet, after almost 100-hour's of solid use.
Yeah, a few days after my initial video, pace contacted me and inquired about my opinion on it. I told them about my impression of the display and whatnot and they told me they would address those issues and get me a the new firmware. Since then I have been using the iron without the pesky annoyances that it had out of the box, such as a jumping display or an issue that I noted when on rare occasions wouldn’t come out of sleep immediately. I still want to get my hands on the equivalent technology/price range hakko and give them a head to head test. But for my uses, it has been a great iron and totally kicks the 888D’s butt. On a side note, when I told them about the jumping display being a bother I was told “no one has ever complained about that before” :P. I just remember thinking “yeah, but you did not have irons of this type in the hobby and prosumer price range before either... get ready for the gripes”.
Cliff Matthews, reflow usually means your joint was poor from the start. If you start off with clean solder, clean contact surfaces and well mixed flux, you won’t be reflowing or reworking. Don’t forget to clean each joint afterwards. It won’t attract dust and moisture. Hope you’re wearing nitrile gloves and using fume extraction. Otherwise, you’ll have lung problems and lead poisoning to deal with!
I saw this video around the time it came out, and decided to order this station to replace an old style 70 watt Weller at work, and I've been very happy with it so far. Thanks for making this video, even though there are a few gripes listed, I haven't any issues of note. Though, in all fairness, I am used to old style tips, even on the old Pace stations where I used to work. This iron heats up faster, works better, and the cartridge tips are much easier to change when the iron is hot.
Thank you, Dave!! Great review. Probably going to order one soon. Need an acceptable bench iron for casual work and board stuffing/rework. Your review helped a ton and a great no bull review was just what the doctor ordered. I think this station will work just fine on my bench with minimum worries!! Cheers!!
Hi Dave, thanks for another great video. At the end of this video you said you'd like to do comparisons to other irons in the $200 class. I hope you do, I'd be very interested to see where this new Pace falls in line.
I have some very similar older model which works with no issues for last 13 years - and I'm still using original tips! I would say we soldered about 1h per week.
A LED indicator of Fahrenheit/Celsius would be a good design change. Just light up a decimal point if you’re in Celsius mode. I’d recommend that change for sure.
I would be curious what the actual tip temperature of the JBC is. I had a WHA900 that when set to 450c, went to 445c. My JBC JT-A hot air station when set to 450c was shooting out 517c air! I wonder if they are actually better, or just calibrated very hot out of the box. This is hot air, not the iron, but I am wondering if it follows the rest of their products.
Louis Rossmann : hi. Hot air cools fast at a distance from the nozzle. So for thermal shrink tubing that's OK. I can imagine that for someone reworking single components on a densely packed board, like you do, that's a nuisance. In short: I agree totally with your observation.
Wish this review was up a couple of weeks ago I just got my first station and it's a Weller but i would've spent the extra bucks and got this one it looks so nice.
My trusty old Weller recently developed a fault in the cable near the iron. A used one now costs about as much as I payed for the whole thing including station and tips years ago. Wtf?? Guess I'm in the market for something new.
EEVBLOG Its a clone and I didnt get the feet, The rubber holder, the "Program Card" or the sponge. The Tip holder is super cheap and one of the latches snapped day 1. Have to insert "Program Card", adjust temp then remove the card. I was hoping I could just leave the card in all the time so I could so i could simply adjust. Other youtubers demonstrated this behavior but mine is different. An adjust pot without the complicated program sequence would be ideal. Not sure how close it is to the set temp. It is ok to use once set. I really wanted something easy to set like the TS100 with a PSU and holder, and the ADS200 looks like a good contender.
I bought that JBC years ago now and I haven't even powered on any of my other irons since. the JBC is just too good, and worth every penny of the $450 I paid.
@@janklas7079 You are wrong, year ago I was working in top electronics companies and never see a JBC soldering iron. You can find Weller, Metcal, Pace, inclusive Hakko but never JBC.
@@janklas7079 Wrong again, Intel, C&k, army Contractor and more. Nobody use JBC. Don't try to cheat, if someone can affort and need a really good soldering station go for Weller, Pace, Metcal, Hakko.
So glad you made this video. Ive been on the fence about this one after buying the pace desoldering station. I will say a few things about pace equipment. 1) all the equipment follows the same asthetic. Whether you love or hate... Its your opinion, but i like it. Solid and Shiny. 2) the case is also functional as the channels in the extrusion allow you to mount with some slide adjust capabilities. 3) pace has been around for a while; like the godfather of soldering. Their tech makes you imagine that the original engineering team is still alive and kicking as their features and advanvements in tech often seem behind the curve. 4) as basic as they are, they seem to focus on making products that work well, last long and dont break the bank on consumables. Tip cost and selection is what drove me to choose their desoldering station. Thats a different beast and has its own quirks. It still uses the older tech without direct drive, but im getting used to its nuances and limitations and learning to work within its realm of capabilities. Even though this review had some negatives, it showed me what i wanted to see... good and bad. I think im going to pull the trigger on this setup solely for the temp accuracy and within its price point no challenger for thermal recovery. However, i plan to call PACE and see if they have any updates planned based on several reviews calling out their bs board layout. Comparatively, the pace unit should get the job done with ease and i can use the tips like a boss without giving two fucks or feeling like ive commited sins against soldering. As far jbc goes... I like them, but i dont find them practical for general electronics repair due to price points and most certainly the price of its consumables. Maybe its just me but i want to be able to abuse my tips and feel good about it. JBC, in my opinion, is geared towards production environments (ie. Big biz and not independant repair shops) that can churn maximum value from every tip to where paying $40-$60 for a tip is not an issue. However, im pretty sure the new NASE-C is on the short list due to it being the only model that offers tweezers (or i should say good tweezers) for 01005 and smaller. their tip prices and lifecycle have always sent me screaming and running in the other direction, i think microsoldering streamer said he gets 2weeks from tweezer tips and those are about 100+ for a set. I plan to add the comment in every tip reorder... Frak you, heres my money.
Hats off to the industrial designer. Simple and elegant. PACE needs to ditch the engineer who did the PCB. He will make a better clown in a circus, than an engineer. Ass soon as I saw the PCB, one word jumped out! "wtf"?
I’ve watched a few of your reviews on soldering stations and I know a few years have past but the $120-$200 etc prices stated are way under what I can find haha this one is currently $800+ Anyway love your work sir.
Maybe I'm old-school, but I see no need for high-power (100W+) soldering stations that get used 99% for low-power soldering. What I own is a 60 year-old 300W Weller soldering gun (now called the D650) for the heavy stuff, and a varying number of 30W-60W soldering pencils for everything else. The Weller has a copper alloy tip: When it gets pitted or gunked up, I can take a file to it and quickly get to fresh metal with a sharp chisel edge, ready for tinning. No need to carry multiple tips around, just a small flat file. I also like my soldering tools to easily go from the bench to the tool bag. Presently, I bring my Weller gun and a TS100 pencil. Life is good!
I almost solder exclusively below 370 C unless I'm dealing with a large thermal mass, and even then a bigger tip does the business better than increasing the temperature
I've just realised you do a ground plane test at 280c in your comparison of the Hakko FX888D and the Weller WE1010 - and those both *could* do it, which seems pretty interesting?
I had this station on order when they had quit shipping it, took months for them to get the iron to me. I upgraded from a hakko fx888d and have been happy with the iron so far. I chose this iron as the tips were inexpensive, made in the USA, and has a short grip to tip distance for working under a microscope. I do notice yours does not have the huge Made in USA sticker on the back of the iron with an american flag like mine does ^^ Totally agree that for the price point (it puts it in the hobby market range) they should include a basic chisel tip. Thanks for the full teardown, I did not feel like tearing mine completely apart so just took a peek and saw the regulator sticking out and not secured. Yours bounces around as much as mine does on power on, I measured about 18C overshoot on power on. If you left it in a stand for a long time, I have had it once not return to temp so far where I had to cycle the power. The only reason at the time I did not buy this over the very close in price hakko fx951 station with the Hakko FM2032-51 is the price of the tips. I wonder if they are going to fix that bounce in the firmware and if they do, will they send a new programmed micro controller to everyone who purchased it? :P I wonder how long it will be before custom firmware will be released.
Wasn't the chip in a socket? It is a micro with flash memory. It would require pulling the chip, programming it and then replacing it or just have a direct replacement chip sent with a set of pullers. Bit annoying yes, but doable ? When I looked at mine I did not see an ICSP header sadly. ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc4180.pdf
a PLCC to 40 pin dip adapter is a couple of bucks off the big auction site, anyway... it was just a random thought since the chip was in a socket :) My TL866A software also has the 89C51 44 pin chips listed, maybe if I get bored during the long alaskan winter ^^
We send out updated firmware (a 44-Pin PLCC, yep, we're old school) along with a chip puller to anyone requesting it. The latest firmware update is 1.2. It's impossible for us to provide to every customer since we sell 99.8% of our product through authorized distributors, who are very unlikely to send us their customer lists. If you need the the latest 1.2 update, go to PACE's website at www.paceworldwide.com/contact-us and fill out the form.
Wow! I remember watching this video when this first came out and was gonna look to purchase now, but the price has skyrocketed. Might just build my own now
Thanks for the great review! In our Aussie realities ADS200 is A$495 vs $A529 for JBC-CD-2BQE. No brainer :) And JBC tops are "only" twice as expensive (prices from mektronics)
None whatsoever, the 4 MOSFET's form a bridge and the output gets dumped direct to the element (at 120hz) with no losses. The uC and control loop requires low current to run and that's why they use a jellybean 7805.
I think I understand now. The heating element just gets full-wave rectified AC. Meanwhile the same AC voltage from the transformer goes through another diode (CR17) into the cap, and thence into the 7805. Makes sense. Thanks.
Karol Piotrowski I agree. At these prices, they could at least put an LCD in there. I understand that these types of station are really aimed at a "production" environment, and the solderers won't need to be messing with the settings too often (or at all), but backlit LCDs are dirt-cheap nowadays, and can still have fairly good viewing angles. Or, failing that, a small OLED could still show the set temperature and current temperature on most of the screen, and make it far easier to set up the extra settings. It could also still use a small low-pin-count MCU to drive the display via SPI or I2C. I don't believe they are really at such a low price point that they need to scrimp on the display. Having said all of that, the 7-seg display is still functional and easy to read, so what do I know. lol
But why, all it does is drive the price. Its set and forget, and when you do need to change it, it appears very easy to read from all directions. Just look at the JBC nearly twice the cost and from the angle of the camera its almost blank. Yes they are not at the same angle and that is likely not where you would put your head to adjust the JBC, but I imagine even if you look at the PACE from almost the side it will still be fairly readable. And its old school, reminds me of things growing up. Its a matter of preference I guess.
I'll take a LED display any day over a LCD display. Much easier to read at a glance, and if it ever fails a heck of a lot easier to replace 20 or 30 years down the road.
I have nothing against the display, just the general responsiveness of the interface and cryptic settings via magic key combinations. And if we're talking about cost saving I'm pretty sure using 8051 clone in PLCC package is an opposite of that ;)
Pace explains why the extra $25 is worth it for the ISB stand (to extend tip life). see link: www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1106-pace-ads200-soldering-station-review-(jbc-killer)/msg1762742/#msg1762742
Would be interesting to know if the thermal performance of the ADS200 can be improved using Unisolder or a redesigned control PCB? I wonder if tip plating is the real issue?
I'd love to see you do a review on the pinecil. As a hobbyist it has really changed my life. Small, cheap and powerful and the fact that I don't have to have a workbench dedicated for soldering makes my life so much easier. I just take it and my soldering mat out whenever I need to work on something and then chuck it in a drawer.
Dave, the thickness of the tip between the thermal mass/heating element and the solder surface greater on the jbc. This makes a big difference in temperature drop from the thermal couple/heating element and the solder. A different tip may make a big difference
In the US we usually slowly give up on pointing out the absurdity of hanging on to imperial and fractional inches and over time absorb a table of fractional inch to decimal conversions in our heads and get pretty good at multiplying by 25.4 just to get by in a day, when our definition of absurdity shifts to the number and letter gauges, though if you work with those long enough I'm sure the same thing happens. Metrological stockholm syndrome
I tried to post in your previously uploaded version of this video. I didn't see you confirm the actual temperature of the JBC with the Hakko temperature reader. How can you make any comparison about 270C between the two if you didn't show that the JBC was really at 270C and not 290C or higher? If I missed that, I apologize, but I didn't see it previously.
Even Nippon Chemicon caps die when you put a heatsink so close that it's touching. Maybe that was the last minute change. They should have put the capacitors on their side if they needed to bodge a heatsink into the design without remanufacturing their PCBs.
They didn't figure out the 7805 got unreasonably hot until after probably. I don't understand why they didn't go surface mount with it like an LF50. The control circuits can't be using THAT much power.
Solid State Workshop - The heater tip gets power dumped directly from the active lowloss mosfet bridge, the 7805 only provides power for the uC, opamps, icl7660 (for a minus supply), and LED. Not hot at all.. anyway that Nippon-Chemicon HQ cap is rated at 105c - Pace doesn't skimp :-)
Cliff Matthews Yeah the parts are fine quality. I’m speaking more about the premise of allowing that board to see full scale production with a heatsink at a 20 degree angle because they couldn’t be bothered to move the damn cap 5mm.
Solid State Workshop - All of those I've seen (including mine) are not like that, but this "tilt" distance could be recent result of EEVblog discussions on heating that el-cap.. either way it's a jelly-bean part and it's not going no-where. I have a feeling this is more of a "grey beard PCB designer" issue and other PCB's (eg MBT-301) are similar and have lasted decades without issue. If this model goes into big sales, I'm sure changes will occur in a MKII model... It's nice to see Pace commenting on the forum and here on Dave's channel, it really shows they care. Cheers!
I think that the current-sense resistor mentioned here is for the purpose of measuring the resistance of the heating element. The heating element IMO is also the temperature sensor. Of course, you need an intimate thermal contact between the tip and the heater. Also notice that there are 4 pins in the connector. That is IMO a Kelvin (4-wire) resistance measuring circuit so that no significant current flows through the measurement wires. Pretty clever IMO. Notice that there are only 2 connections to the cartridge itself. No separate connections for a sensor. Thanks to this video I bought one and I love it. BTW, they turned the heat-sink screw around so that it is not so close to the cap. I have reverse-engineered a heating pad that uses the heating element as the temperature sensor.
Im a ameture , doing some research on soldering equipment. I really like the stuff from jbc . I really like the soldering tweezers , they look amazing .
According to their own website it is $542 AUD + GST and the JBC is available from them for $547 + GST. The PACE looks like a clunky ugly lump compared to the JBC. Normal RRP is about 50% more on the JBC. Tips certainly seem cheaper but spares for other PACE gear like my tweezers is like buying gold. Also "$220USD street price" is interesting since that's $300AUD and we get slugged $542AUD!!!
How it looks is a matter of preference. It looks like an aluminium box that someone put a couple curves in to break up the box like structure. Some people don't like it, but some don't care. I have a rather small bench and the more box like the better it is for stacking. I don't have a JBC, but I do have a Hakko and its a great iron, but this is right up my alley as a very hobby electronics guy. My only problem is how it bounces around, thats a little concerning, it pings at my profession as a mechanic where things should be rock solid.
Great review. I am in the market at present. Given supply chain issues of recent times would you still consider bang for buck now it's almost twice the price? Also did any of the niggles you had in the review get addressed?
Ordered mine from farnell. I'm using it for a couple of weeks and I'm very happy with it. I tried to register my station, finding out that my country wasn't on the list. Sent them an email but pace never even bothered even to answer...
The extra rubber on the button gaskets is left in place on purpose because it keeps the buttons from rotating and it makes assembling the unit easier. Easier assembly saves time and lowers production cost.
Looks damn similar to the good old ST-50, slightly cost reduced. Oh the transformer has a tap for 115V, can modify it. I don't know why they didn't bother with a switch!
I just took apart my st-50, it's from 2012. The board is near identical, but has an added 6800u cap in that empty space. No excuse for that vreg, just didn't want to re lay out the board. Also it seems AccuDrive == IntelliHeat
There might be some firmware differences, but a lot of old businesses (especially the ones that are mostly b2b) really like to stick with "if it ain't broke don't fix it". FWIW I replaced the role of my st45 with an imported station job that takes hakko t12 cartridges for around the price I paid for the st45 used and haven't looked back
The specific one I got can be found by searching "KSGER STM32 2.1S" on aliexpress but there are a lot of clone soldering stations to choose from if that one doesn't tickle your fancy
This looks pretty good. I suppose PACE could offer a tip for doing lower temp stuff with similar characteristics to the JBC one as an option. I've just looked in the UK and the price is about £300 with one tip so over $500 Australian! A desoldering station with this type of technology would be good :)
I purchased a EDSYN 951SX in the 90's, and it is still going strong, with 220 watts I can solder 10 gauge wire then change the tip and solder a NAND chip.
Replay it with YT settings on slow. You will see Pace giving half pulses too. There's pictures of it on EEVblog under his section on manufacturing equipment. Look for JBC killer in the title.
KW PCtek : sorry, but I did and I still see only half cycles with the JBC and mainly series of full cycle wirh the PACE. The latter may have passed sometimes an odd number of half cycles in a series, I couldn't see, but I didn't see nothing but separate half cycles with the JBC. In an industrial setting without hundreds of soldering stations it will probably even (literally) out but still....
Just bought this. I mostly do rework and repair and this is my first higher end station. Upgraded from a hakko 888 so this is a big jump in quality and performance for me. I'm glad i learned on lower quality stations prior to using this.
I'm a bit of a pleb. I'm still happy with my OLD /USED/ hakko 936. got it over 10 years ago now, and it was used. works like a bought one as it were. Now I bet It'd be great to have the new style tips and better thermal mass. but so far, haven't really been annoyed enough with mine to bother getting a new one. Now if there was a good one with the new tips with a hot air reflow gun, that wasn't an arm and a leg, I'd think about it for the future.
I have a Pace MBT 250. Wonder if you might do a review on it. Curious as to what you think. I personally would rather have this than a newer one, but would like your take on it mate! Let me hear back!
Our official policy is we will provide tips (and spare parts) for no less than 5 years AFTER a product has been discontinued. But in reality, we tend to keep supplying tips well over 10 years past that date. Sometimes we have to, because of our relationship with various Military customers, a big part of our business worldwide.
just a thing about the longevity of tips i used the PACE TD100 with an ST50 at past and i can say that the tips stay not as long, way not as long as my curent JBC 210 tips, that is stay incredibly long(except for the very thin one i use) thanks you for this very interesting review
Great Video Dave. One question... You mentioned in another review of the Weller WE1010, that it did not have a fuse on the primary side of the transformer. Does the Pace ADS200 have a primary winding fuse?
Wesley Lee, they make the best solder roll holder made. I wouldn’t trade it for any other. Most solder roll holders are crap. This one has a steel plate base, precision machined holders for the reels. bent plate mount for the reel holders with a spoiling eye to guide the solder smooth as silk! It is a very sweet piece. Wasn’t cheap either!
Still rockin my Weller EC1002 with analog dial. Does all the hobby soldering that I need and been doing so for more than 12 years (I got it used at that time). Tips are few bucks. TCO has been VERY low =) I keep trying to talk myself into getting something new but damnit this does all I need. I'll wait for it to die before I get a new one.
how does this compare to the weller D550 soldering iron. I think its sold now as the d650 for non smt or small parts? sort of a chainsaw for trimming toenails but the cost is also around 60 dollars.
I wonder about the power-consumption compared to these 'newer ironstyles': is 3-wire or 5-wire making the difference? In a 5-wire layout, the measurements can be done at the same time as heating, but I noticed (on the noise) that the 3-wire iron-stations do take a break between heating and measuring, probably because they use the same wires? I know technically it would be possible to do measurement and heating with the same 3 wires at the same time but probably this could give some measurement-problems and cause overshooting for example? Maybe Pace can tell? I have some older iron (old technology, 'no-name') with 5 wires that goes into higher power-consumption untill it sensors reach the selected temperature (and then probably overshoots at the tip) right after putting the iron on a bigger plate. That station does get hot though (not only the iron) doing so and impossible to get good tips nowadays since it is using the old copper-wire style tips and is only max. 40 Watt...
Fun, (yep for me) ....“ACCU” is the Dutch language more or less the longtime used term for a care battery. So at first glanced “Accudrive” gave me the idea of a battery powered soldering station.
I will stay with my Ersa Icon Nano for a long time. Heats up very fast, Big choice of good but cheap soldering tips, light iron perfect for SMD but capable of soldering huge wires. Heating behaviour (like overshooting), temperatures, buttonlock and standby timeout can all be configured on a microSD that you only have to plug in once. Has a nice black metal case and the tool stand is just perfect. All that for 170 bugs with free 2 day delivery for all accessories.
I don't know how well they stock, but here is our distributor in Finland: PRODI OY Valakkatie 2 00780 Helsinki Finland Tel: 358 207 439 439 Fax: 358 207 439 430 Website: www.prodi.fi Email: prodi@prodi.fi
A lot of what is being evaluated here is thermal transient performance which only comes into play when soldering a really large joint or many joints rapidly, so the thermal drain is more than thermal resistance between the temp sensor and the tip, *freezing the tip*. In that case, the only option is to overcompensate the temperature. A bit of a special case for the Pace, but maybe a known scenario. The big argument for the JBC stability and response is DESOLDERING TEMPS with braid, which is that type of thermal load. I'm not sure that came up. It's interesting that the old style iron with the slug tip only differs in performance in the length of time of its thermal response. Seems to be the only difference. The Pace has probably got some "bounce". Sometimes the only way to get rid of that kind of stuff is engineering trial and error. Maybe some software buffering.
If the Pace has to be set higher than JBC, to melt solder on a given joint, then isn't the temperature of the PACE heating the joint to the same temperature as JBC?
I bet Dave received a RevA unit, which had a last minute patch to fix a heat issue on that TO-220 package. Here I am, 17 months after this video was made, and I bet that by now, Pace has a new MLB that has corrected the issue. No company wants to go into production with a board that requires patches like this. It adds labor cost and slows down the production line. Ditto on the temp reading fluctuations. By now, Pace has made a firmware patch to correct it.
Enclosed heat of the transformer should be worse. I wonder why they needed the heatsink on the 7805, the entire microconroller+ADC+LEDs thing should be less than 100mW and they could have had a winding out of the transformer at 8-9V.
All of the thermal performance difference can be attributed to the super thin plating of the JBC tips if this isn't the JBC "long life" series tips. It's nice that JBC gives you the choice, but other makers have designed their tips for durability and so they always have a thermal performance disadvantage. Hakko T12/T15 tips especially come to mind in this regard. Super long life. Somewhat muted performance as a result.
I purchased and did a video review of one of the first units. I had problems with the original tips as I reported in the video. Pace had a representative at my door 2 days later to collect the faulty tips and replace them. Can't ask for much better customer service than that. Have been using it daily since then and have not encountered any other problems. A great unit that doesn't disappoint.
As for the "no strain relief", Pace has never used them. I have Pace irons that are decades old and are still fine. They use really good quality cords. And FYI, they will be releasing a mini tweezer that works with this unit eventually.
Wow, that's impressive. Try getting that service on the TS100 everyone craps on about.
based on your review I did order one of these units to replace my vintag weller ungar 921zx
I had a similar outcome with RIGOL one of my probes for my DS4000 Scope was faulty, I was out of the manufacturers warrantee, but I contacted them anyway due to you never know and after a couple of days they sent me out a newer version of the probe absolutely free (saving me £200) and I didn't even have to return the old probe, so I now have spare parts for my other 3 probes.
So I am very happy with the support I got from their EU Support Staff.
I have also had bad support from other companies where they just don't care once they get your money.
"try getting that service on the TS100 everyone craps on about"
Try getting a Pace ADS200 for 50 bucks...Different markets entirely, bud.
Same experience here with Rigol. I was pulling the grabber hook off of a probe and the probe body came apart. I put a call in to Rigol and they sent me a replacement with zero hassle. I really didn't expect that level of service from a lower-tier Chinese manufacturer, but they're obviously trying hard to impress.
8:01 "tight as a nuns nasty" casually thrown in there
What's wrong with leaving flux on the board? Besides the fact that they did not leave enough?
Louis Rossmann : aestetics my friend!
More flux!
A Louis amount of flux
You've never worked high reliability applications, if you are asking that question.
But then, I was trained under the NASA standards for space flight use... During my training, my soldering was perfection or it was a fail. I have seen the new standards, even the current highest level industry standards make me cringe...
Flux can cause the circuit to fail eventually if left on the board, some can be acidic and cause corrosion and/or it can retain moisture and present a low impedance and basically short out some types of circuits via leakage current... it’s better to clean it to avoid problems down the road even if it’s a “no clean” flux...
Regarding the buttons maintaining their molding link. Reduction on BOM parts.....only need to manage (1) part vs (3) parts. Actually a very smart detail from someone at Pace.
Absolutely correct Brian! Also keeps assemblers from placing the buttons in the wrong place.
PACE Worldwide-AC You guys really need to fix the ground bounce on your thermocouple readings. That's pretty nasty and is why the readings are all over the place.
We're working on it! Will get back to everyone soon.
PACE Worldwide-AC nice to see you guys actively listening to comments/complaints in places people actually comment on. Anyway fantastic product for the price.
@@paceworldwide-ac4422
Is there a mechanism for end users to update the firmware with this station?
I've been astral-projecting myself into your bedroom at night for the past several weeks, whispering suggestions while you sleep for you to review the new Pace ADS200 and you have delivered.
That explains it...
Since astral projecting seems to work, can you please suggest to Dave to send me that Gossen Metrawatt. Just convince him it's probes are dull, that should be enough. :)
Glad the video is back. Really was looking forward to this review.
I did control work for many years. It looks like they are probably doing a closed PID loop control and are displaying the instantaneous temperature they driving to instead of the temperature of the tip. The drive will overshoot for a few moments of and on to try to reach the target temperature quickly.
That's exactly what I was thinking, that fluctuation might just be in the heating element itself. What they are probably doing, is over driving it with PWM to get the temp up there as quickly as possible, then sample the tip temp to make sure it's within range. It's a totally acceptable method.
I've had firmware 1.4 for a month, nice update. Display's not jumpy and ISB can be set for zero-delay, although I prefer less up-down heat cycling, since when finishing joints, I often test for strength and elect a reflow. Also, temperature set points are now 1 degree apart, not 5 as shown here (so I guess you can do science melt experiments with this too..).
I'm also impressed by the realistic pricing on replacement parts. Example: The silicon o-ring near the front end of the handle costs just $3 USD for a pack of 5 (that's like a ten-year supply!), and I don't need to change mine yet, after almost 100-hour's of solid use.
Yeah, a few days after my initial video, pace contacted me and inquired about my opinion on it. I told them about my impression of the display and whatnot and they told me they would address those issues and get me a the new firmware. Since then I have been using the iron without the pesky annoyances that it had out of the box, such as a jumping display or an issue that I noted when on rare occasions wouldn’t come out of sleep immediately. I still want to get my hands on the equivalent technology/price range hakko and give them a head to head test. But for my uses, it has been a great iron and totally kicks the 888D’s butt. On a side note, when I told them about the jumping display being a bother I was told “no one has ever complained about that before” :P. I just remember thinking “yeah, but you did not have irons of this type in the hobby and prosumer price range before either... get ready for the gripes”.
Cliff Matthews, reflow usually means your joint was poor from the start. If you start off with clean solder, clean contact surfaces and well mixed flux, you won’t be reflowing or reworking. Don’t forget to clean each joint afterwards. It won’t attract dust and moisture. Hope you’re wearing nitrile gloves and using fume extraction. Otherwise, you’ll have lung problems and lead poisoning to deal with!
I saw this video around the time it came out, and decided to order this station to replace an old style 70 watt Weller at work, and I've been very happy with it so far. Thanks for making this video, even though there are a few gripes listed, I haven't any issues of note. Though, in all fairness, I am used to old style tips, even on the old Pace stations where I used to work. This iron heats up faster, works better, and the cartridge tips are much easier to change when the iron is hot.
Thank you, Dave!! Great review. Probably going to order one soon. Need an acceptable bench iron for casual work and board stuffing/rework. Your review helped a ton and a great no bull review was just what the doctor ordered. I think this station will work just fine on my bench with minimum worries!! Cheers!!
Hi Dave, thanks for another great video.
At the end of this video you said you'd like to do comparisons to other irons in the $200 class. I hope you do, I'd be very interested to see where this new Pace falls in line.
Don't delay, buy today...
oh, wrong channel, never mind.
Louis Rossmann I see
made in usa and top quality, can't wait to get myself one of these puppies
I'm clueless, I'll need this one explained!
Dave: Louis Rossmann.
I still don't get the reference.
The clunky extra cable for the stand sensor is a big fail for me. Should be done through the iron cable.
It's a bit clunky
yes they could put a little magnetic read switch in the iron and just put a magnet on the stand, no need for that cable .
Higher Pace have an IR sensor in the stand IIRC and when a workbench is organized a stand hardly moves..
Daniel Austin reed
DIY it, soldering station mod thyself.
I actually upgraded from an fx888d and the Pace is a really great station. Great video by the way, to the point and no bullshit. Keep it up Dave!
I don't agree with the to the point bit, there was a lot of waffle!
Hah, every EEVBLOG old-timer knows, that 41 min video from you, Dave, is to the point))) And i Like it!
As you see here, many seem to think plastic and bullshit are desirable features.
EEVblog I certainly enjoyed it lol
Come on, Dave. We love the waffle. A little bit of butter and some maple syrup, and your waffles are the BEST!! Keep them coming Dave. Great review!
I have some very similar older model which works with no issues for last 13 years - and I'm still using original tips! I would say we soldered about 1h per week.
Marco Reps said "i know a certain australian who wont like that" for that 7805 and capacitor !! and it turns out to be true! xd!!
That was awesome! I laughed out loud
I watched Marco Reps review
A LED indicator of Fahrenheit/Celsius would be a good design change. Just light up a decimal point if you’re in Celsius mode. I’d recommend that change for sure.
I would be curious what the actual tip temperature of the JBC is.
I had a WHA900 that when set to 450c, went to 445c. My JBC JT-A hot air station when set to 450c was shooting out 517c air!
I wonder if they are actually better, or just calibrated very hot out of the box. This is hot air, not the iron, but I am wondering if it follows the rest of their products.
Louis Rossmann : hi. Hot air cools fast at a distance from the nozzle.
So for thermal shrink tubing that's OK. I can imagine that for someone reworking single components on a densely packed board, like you do, that's a nuisance.
In short: I agree totally with your observation.
Rofl did you hear that Louis, you are counted among the Libtards :)
@ 29:50 The JBC tip temp is spot on.
Looks like your power meter stopped updating at 34:41. That would explain the rock-steady readings at that point. 😺
Integration on?
Wish this review was up a couple of weeks ago I just got my first station and it's a Weller but i would've spent the extra bucks and got this one it looks so nice.
Me too. just bought a crappy FX-915 :(
Justin Richards What's wrong with the 951?
My trusty old Weller recently developed a fault in the cable near the iron. A used one now costs about as much as I payed for the whole thing including station and tips years ago. Wtf?? Guess I'm in the market for something new.
Wish I had something as nice as the FX-951, my Weller's a WES51. What's so bad about that hakko 951?
EEVBLOG Its a clone and I didnt get the feet, The rubber holder, the "Program Card" or the sponge.
The Tip holder is super cheap and one of the latches snapped day 1.
Have to insert "Program Card", adjust temp then remove the card. I was hoping I could just leave the card in all the time so I could so i could simply adjust. Other youtubers demonstrated this behavior but mine is different.
An adjust pot without the complicated program sequence would be ideal.
Not sure how close it is to the set temp. It is ok to use once set.
I really wanted something easy to set like the TS100 with a PSU and holder, and the ADS200 looks like a good contender.
@ 25:00 you could say that the 10% higher wattage of the jbc is the reason for the Pace needing to be 10% hotter...
If only it worked like that!
18:55 they got the german translation wrong.. they translated over-current error to Überspannung which means over-voltage xD
What's the correct translation?
I bought that JBC years ago now and I haven't even powered on any of my other irons since. the JBC is just too good, and worth every penny of the $450 I paid.
It's simply the best tool out there, second to none.
@@janklas7079 Except Metcal ;)
@@janklas7079 You are wrong, year ago I was working in top electronics companies and never see a JBC soldering iron.
You can find Weller, Metcal, Pace, inclusive Hakko but never JBC.
@@treadmillrepair754 Then you weren't working in top electronics companies.
JBC is expensive.
@@janklas7079 Wrong again, Intel, C&k, army Contractor and more.
Nobody use JBC.
Don't try to cheat, if someone can affort and need a really good soldering station go for Weller, Pace, Metcal, Hakko.
Bad Dave. I soon can not afford to watch your movies...... Now i have both a new JBC CD-BE abd this Pace ADS200 on order. Damm you... :-)
It's super easy to take a fine spring and thread it onto the cord at the handle for a better strain relief. Looks cool too.
So glad you made this video. Ive been on the fence about this one after buying the pace desoldering station. I will say a few things about pace equipment.
1) all the equipment follows the same asthetic. Whether you love or hate... Its your opinion, but i like it. Solid and Shiny.
2) the case is also functional as the channels in the extrusion allow you to mount with some slide adjust capabilities.
3) pace has been around for a while; like the godfather of soldering. Their tech makes you imagine that the original engineering team is still alive and kicking as their features and advanvements in tech often seem behind the curve.
4) as basic as they are, they seem to focus on making products that work well, last long and dont break the bank on consumables. Tip cost and selection is what drove me to choose their desoldering station. Thats a different beast and has its own quirks. It still uses the older tech without direct drive, but im getting used to its nuances and limitations and learning to work within its realm of capabilities.
Even though this review had some negatives, it showed me what i wanted to see... good and bad. I think im going to pull the trigger on this setup solely for the temp accuracy and within its price point no challenger for thermal recovery. However, i plan to call PACE and see if they have any updates planned based on several reviews calling out their bs board layout. Comparatively, the pace unit should get the job done with ease and i can use the tips like a boss without giving two fucks or feeling like ive commited sins against soldering.
As far jbc goes... I like them, but i dont find them practical for general electronics repair due to price points and most certainly the price of its consumables. Maybe its just me but i want to be able to abuse my tips and feel good about it. JBC, in my opinion, is geared towards production environments (ie. Big biz and not independant repair shops) that can churn maximum value from every tip to where paying $40-$60 for a tip is not an issue. However, im pretty sure the new NASE-C is on the short list due to it being the only model that offers tweezers (or i should say good tweezers) for 01005 and smaller. their tip prices and lifecycle have always sent me screaming and running in the other direction, i think microsoldering streamer said he gets 2weeks from tweezer tips and those are about 100+ for a set. I plan to add the comment in every tip reorder... Frak you, heres my money.
Hats off to the industrial designer. Simple and elegant.
PACE needs to ditch the engineer who did the PCB. He will make a better clown in a circus, than an engineer.
Ass soon as I saw the PCB, one word jumped out! "wtf"?
I’ve watched a few of your reviews on soldering stations and I know a few years have past but the $120-$200 etc prices stated are way under what I can find haha this one is currently $800+
Anyway love your work sir.
Maybe I'm old-school, but I see no need for high-power (100W+) soldering stations that get used 99% for low-power soldering.
What I own is a 60 year-old 300W Weller soldering gun (now called the D650) for the heavy stuff, and a varying number of 30W-60W soldering pencils for everything else.
The Weller has a copper alloy tip: When it gets pitted or gunked up, I can take a file to it and quickly get to fresh metal with a sharp chisel edge, ready for tinning. No need to carry multiple tips around, just a small flat file.
I also like my soldering tools to easily go from the bench to the tool bag. Presently, I bring my Weller gun and a TS100 pencil. Life is good!
Just ordered one today! I can’t wait to try it out on my amplifier repairs.
I almost solder exclusively below 370 C unless I'm dealing with a large thermal mass, and even then a bigger tip does the business better than increasing the temperature
I've just realised you do a ground plane test at 280c in your comparison of the Hakko FX888D and the Weller WE1010 - and those both *could* do it, which seems pretty interesting?
I had this station on order when they had quit shipping it, took months for them to get the iron to me. I upgraded from a hakko fx888d and have been happy with the iron so far. I chose this iron as the tips were inexpensive, made in the USA, and has a short grip to tip distance for working under a microscope. I do notice yours does not have the huge Made in USA sticker on the back of the iron with an american flag like mine does ^^ Totally agree that for the price point (it puts it in the hobby market range) they should include a basic chisel tip. Thanks for the full teardown, I did not feel like tearing mine completely apart so just took a peek and saw the regulator sticking out and not secured. Yours bounces around as much as mine does on power on, I measured about 18C overshoot on power on. If you left it in a stand for a long time, I have had it once not return to temp so far where I had to cycle the power.
The only reason at the time I did not buy this over the very close in price hakko fx951 station with the Hakko FM2032-51 is the price of the tips. I wonder if they are going to fix that bounce in the firmware and if they do, will they send a new programmed micro controller to everyone who purchased it? :P I wonder how long it will be before custom firmware will be released.
How will we upgrade the firmware though?
Wasn't the chip in a socket? It is a micro with flash memory. It would require pulling the chip, programming it and then replacing it or just have a direct replacement chip sent with a set of pullers. Bit annoying yes, but doable ? When I looked at mine I did not see an ICSP header sadly. ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc4180.pdf
Yeah, doable, but a PITA. I don't have a PLCC Atmel programmer so would have to cobble together something. But ok for those keen enough to fix it.
a PLCC to 40 pin dip adapter is a couple of bucks off the big auction site, anyway... it was just a random thought since the chip was in a socket :) My TL866A software also has the 89C51 44 pin chips listed, maybe if I get bored during the long alaskan winter ^^
We send out updated firmware (a 44-Pin PLCC, yep, we're old school) along with a chip puller to anyone requesting it. The latest firmware update is 1.2. It's impossible for us to provide to every customer since we sell 99.8% of our product through authorized distributors, who are very unlikely to send us their customer lists. If you need the the latest 1.2 update, go to PACE's website at www.paceworldwide.com/contact-us and fill out the form.
Wow! I remember watching this video when this first came out and was gonna look to purchase now, but the price has skyrocketed. Might just build my own now
Dave, do you plan to test the Ersa i-Con? It would be interesting comparison ERSA and JBC.
Thanks for the great review! In our Aussie realities ADS200 is A$495 vs $A529 for JBC-CD-2BQE. No brainer :) And JBC tops are "only" twice as expensive (prices from mektronics)
There must be a huge ripple current in that single electrolytic filter cap during the rapid heat-up.
None whatsoever, the 4 MOSFET's form a bridge and the output gets dumped direct to the element (at 120hz) with no losses. The uC and control loop requires low current to run and that's why they use a jellybean 7805.
I think I understand now. The heating element just gets full-wave rectified AC. Meanwhile the same AC voltage from the transformer goes through another diode (CR17) into the cap, and thence into the 7805. Makes sense. Thanks.
Year 2018 and we still have VCR clock quality interfaces in soldering irons ;)
Karol Piotrowski
I agree. At these prices, they could at least put an LCD in there.
I understand that these types of station are really aimed at a "production" environment, and the solderers won't need to be messing with the settings too often (or at all), but backlit LCDs are dirt-cheap nowadays, and can still have fairly good viewing angles.
Or, failing that, a small OLED could still show the set temperature and current temperature on most of the screen, and make it far easier to set up the extra settings.
It could also still use a small low-pin-count MCU to drive the display via SPI or I2C.
I don't believe they are really at such a low price point that they need to scrimp on the display.
Having said all of that, the 7-seg display is still functional and easy to read, so what do I know. lol
But why, all it does is drive the price. Its set and forget, and when you do need to change it, it appears very easy to read from all directions. Just look at the JBC nearly twice the cost and from the angle of the camera its almost blank. Yes they are not at the same angle and that is likely not where you would put your head to adjust the JBC, but I imagine even if you look at the PACE from almost the side it will still be fairly readable.
And its old school, reminds me of things growing up. Its a matter of preference I guess.
I'll take a LED display any day over a LCD display. Much easier to read at a glance, and if it ever fails a heck of a lot easier to replace 20 or 30 years down the road.
I have nothing against the display, just the general responsiveness of the interface and cryptic settings via magic key combinations. And if we're talking about cost saving I'm pretty sure using 8051 clone in PLCC package is an opposite of that ;)
Oh. You want the voice activated smart iron.
Pace explains why the extra $25 is worth it for the ISB stand (to extend tip life). see link:
www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1106-pace-ads200-soldering-station-review-(jbc-killer)/msg1762742/#msg1762742
Would be interesting to know if the thermal performance of the ADS200 can be improved using Unisolder or a redesigned control PCB? I wonder if tip plating is the real issue?
I'd love to see you do a review on the pinecil. As a hobbyist it has really changed my life. Small, cheap and powerful and the fact that I don't have to have a workbench dedicated for soldering makes my life so much easier. I just take it and my soldering mat out whenever I need to work on something and then chuck it in a drawer.
Dave, the thickness of the tip between the thermal mass/heating element and the solder surface greater on the jbc. This makes a big difference in temperature drop from the thermal couple/heating element and the solder. A different tip may make a big difference
In the US we usually slowly give up on pointing out the absurdity of hanging on to imperial and fractional inches and over time absorb a table of fractional inch to decimal conversions in our heads and get pretty good at multiplying by 25.4 just to get by in a day, when our definition of absurdity shifts to the number and letter gauges, though if you work with those long enough I'm sure the same thing happens. Metrological stockholm syndrome
I tried to post in your previously uploaded version of this video. I didn't see you confirm the actual temperature of the JBC with the Hakko temperature reader. How can you make any comparison about 270C between the two if you didn't show that the JBC was really at 270C and not 290C or higher? If I missed that, I apologize, but I didn't see it previously.
"THE METRIC REBEL AT PACE"
I lost it, Dave...
Yup, I have that tip - it's the "angled mini-wave 2.4mm" (maybe the Pace UK office invented it..)
Even Nippon Chemicon caps die when you put a heatsink so close that it's touching. Maybe that was the last minute change. They should have put the capacitors on their side if they needed to bodge a heatsink into the design without remanufacturing their PCBs.
I just do not understand how they let the whole hestsink-capacitor collision go into full scale production??
They didn't figure out the 7805 got unreasonably hot until after probably. I don't understand why they didn't go surface mount with it like an LF50. The control circuits can't be using THAT much power.
Solid State Workshop - The heater tip gets power dumped directly from the active lowloss mosfet bridge, the 7805 only provides power for the uC, opamps, icl7660 (for a minus supply), and LED. Not hot at all.. anyway that Nippon-Chemicon HQ cap is rated at 105c - Pace doesn't skimp :-)
Cliff Matthews Yeah the parts are fine quality. I’m speaking more about the premise of allowing that board to see full scale production with a heatsink at a 20 degree angle because they couldn’t be bothered to move the damn cap 5mm.
Solid State Workshop - All of those I've seen (including mine) are not like that, but this "tilt" distance could be recent result of EEVblog discussions on heating that el-cap.. either way it's a jelly-bean part and it's not going no-where. I have a feeling this is more of a "grey beard PCB designer" issue and other PCB's (eg MBT-301) are similar and have lasted decades without issue. If this model goes into big sales, I'm sure changes will occur in a MKII model... It's nice to see Pace commenting on the forum and here on Dave's channel, it really shows they care. Cheers!
I think that the current-sense resistor mentioned here is for the purpose of measuring the resistance of the heating element. The heating element IMO is also the temperature sensor. Of course, you need an intimate thermal contact between the tip and the heater. Also notice that there are 4 pins in the connector. That is IMO a Kelvin (4-wire) resistance measuring circuit so that no significant current flows through the measurement wires. Pretty clever IMO. Notice that there are only 2 connections to the cartridge itself. No separate connections for a sensor. Thanks to this video I bought one and I love it. BTW, they turned the heat-sink screw around so that it is not so close to the cap. I have reverse-engineered a heating pad that uses the heating element as the temperature sensor.
Im a ameture , doing some research on soldering equipment. I really like the stuff from jbc . I really like the soldering tweezers , they look amazing .
According to their own website it is $542 AUD + GST and the JBC is available from them for $547 + GST. The PACE looks like a clunky ugly lump compared to the JBC. Normal RRP is about 50% more on the JBC. Tips certainly seem cheaper but spares for other PACE gear like my tweezers is like buying gold. Also "$220USD street price" is interesting since that's $300AUD and we get slugged $542AUD!!!
Yep, standard Australia Tax
I'll stick with JBC and higher end of Hakko line, and I have lived in USA my whole life!
How it looks is a matter of preference. It looks like an aluminium box that someone put a couple curves in to break up the box like structure. Some people don't like it, but some don't care. I have a rather small bench and the more box like the better it is for stacking. I don't have a JBC, but I do have a Hakko and its a great iron, but this is right up my alley as a very hobby electronics guy. My only problem is how it bounces around, thats a little concerning, it pings at my profession as a mechanic where things should be rock solid.
Why such a large disparity between the US and Australian price?
I think the rubber “mold bits” are called runners
Not sprue?
Great review. I am in the market at present. Given supply chain issues of recent times would you still consider bang for buck now it's almost twice the price?
Also did any of the niggles you had in the review get addressed?
Ordered mine from farnell. I'm using it for a couple of weeks and I'm very happy with it. I tried to register my station, finding out that my country wasn't on the list. Sent them an email but pace never even bothered even to answer...
The extra rubber on the button gaskets is left in place on purpose because it keeps the buttons from rotating and it makes assembling the unit easier. Easier assembly saves time and lowers production cost.
Looks damn similar to the good old ST-50, slightly cost reduced. Oh the transformer has a tap for 115V, can modify it. I don't know why they didn't bother with a switch!
Oh, I didn't notice that!
I just took apart my st-50, it's from 2012. The board is near identical, but has an added 6800u cap in that empty space. No excuse for that vreg, just didn't want to re lay out the board. Also it seems AccuDrive == IntelliHeat
There might be some firmware differences, but a lot of old businesses (especially the ones that are mostly b2b) really like to stick with "if it ain't broke don't fix it". FWIW I replaced the role of my st45 with an imported station job that takes hakko t12 cartridges for around the price I paid for the st45 used and haven't looked back
@@palaceofhatee - Out of curiosity, what is this imported station job?
The specific one I got can be found by searching "KSGER STM32 2.1S" on aliexpress but there are a lot of clone soldering stations to choose from if that one doesn't tickle your fancy
This looks pretty good. I suppose PACE could offer a tip for doing lower temp stuff with similar characteristics to the JBC one as an option. I've just looked in the UK and the price is about £300 with one tip so over $500 Australian! A desoldering station with this type of technology would be good :)
Farnell have it in stock for around £205 - search for 8007-0580
I purchased a EDSYN 951SX in the 90's, and it is still going strong, with 220 watts I can solder 10 gauge wire then change the tip and solder a NAND chip.
Dave, the PACE appeared to give full cycles (about 40:00) whereas rhe JBC only gave half cycles.
The powercompanies won't be excited because of this!
Replay it with YT settings on slow. You will see Pace giving half pulses too. There's pictures of it on EEVblog under his section on manufacturing equipment. Look for JBC killer in the title.
KW PCtek : sorry, but I did and I still see only half cycles with the JBC and mainly series of full cycle wirh the PACE. The latter may have passed sometimes an odd number of half cycles in a series, I couldn't see, but I didn't see nothing but separate half cycles with the JBC.
In an industrial setting without hundreds of soldering stations it will probably even (literally) out but still....
Hello Dave could you pls compare it to Hakko fx951?
8:01 "Tight as a nun's nasty!" Haha, I love it. 😂 Great review, Dave!
Just bought this. I mostly do rework and repair and this is my first higher end station. Upgraded from a hakko 888 so this is a big jump in quality and performance for me.
I'm glad i learned on lower quality stations prior to using this.
How much did it cost you?
@@latengocomoburro I'll have to doubl3 check, but it was around $300 usd if I remember correctly
@@lain4231 Right now it i s at $400, super expensive.
@@latengocomoburro I don't find it expensive for the quality, features and performance.
@@lain4231 I'm good with my $80 buck hakko FX-888, I love it.
im using an ERSA iCon now...love it!
I'm a bit of a pleb. I'm still happy with my OLD /USED/ hakko 936. got it over 10 years ago now, and it was used. works like a bought one as it were. Now I bet It'd be great to have the new style tips and better thermal mass. but so far, haven't really been annoyed enough with mine to bother getting a new one. Now if there was a good one with the new tips with a hot air reflow gun, that wasn't an arm and a leg, I'd think about it for the future.
Pace is great own one for 25 + years no problems.
8:49 looks like JBC C245 is not pushed in all the way by the >| symbol.
If pushed all the way in it could approx halve the difference
I have a Pace MBT 250. Wonder if you might do a review on it. Curious as to what you think. I personally would rather have this than a newer one, but would like your take on it mate! Let me hear back!
What about changing the tips on the fly, while hot? (Maybe I missed it.) It's easy with JBC.
question is, are the tips still available after a few years or even after about 5-10 years
It's Pace, no worries about that.
Our official policy is we will provide tips (and spare parts) for no less than 5 years AFTER a product has been discontinued. But in reality, we tend to keep supplying tips well over 10 years past that date. Sometimes we have to, because of our relationship with various Military customers, a big part of our business worldwide.
PACE Worldwide-AC Thank you for the feedback, always good to know :)
Did this get reuploaded for some reason? I had a link to another solder station review that was not available.
Dave, can you please say when quoting price if its aud or usd. At mektronics au the jbc and the pace are same price.
just a thing about the longevity of tips
i used the PACE TD100 with an ST50 at past and i can say that the tips stay not as long, way not as long as my curent JBC 210 tips, that is stay incredibly long(except for the very thin one i use)
thanks you for this very interesting review
Dave: Do you think it would be greatly improved with more time spent on the firmware (and a new PCB layout, just 'cos)?
The display obviously needs firmware tweaks
We agree.
Great Video Dave. One question... You mentioned in another review of the Weller WE1010, that it did not have a fuse on the primary side of the transformer. Does the Pace ADS200 have a primary winding fuse?
The 'kettle lead' style socket has a built in fuse holder. In the UK the plug would also have a 1amp fuse in it. Belt and braces.
Did you try the 'wide' heavy soldering tip???
This reminds me why I like my Ersa so much. Yeah its a bit more expensive, but worth every penny.
Wesley Lee, they make the best solder roll holder made. I wouldn’t trade it for any other. Most solder roll holders are crap. This one has a steel plate base, precision machined holders for the reels. bent plate mount for the reel holders with a spoiling eye to guide the solder smooth as silk! It is a very sweet piece. Wasn’t cheap either!
Still rockin my Weller EC1002 with analog dial. Does all the hobby soldering that I need and been doing so for more than 12 years (I got it used at that time). Tips are few bucks. TCO has been VERY low =)
I keep trying to talk myself into getting something new but damnit this does all I need. I'll wait for it to die before I get a new one.
EEVBlog 121GW multimeter also makes a handy power analyzer prop!
Add it to the selling points!
What happened with the posting of the video and then it disappearing?
how does this compare to the weller D550 soldering iron. I think its sold now as the d650 for non smt or small parts? sort of a chainsaw for trimming toenails but the cost is also around 60 dollars.
Great video
That soldering station sure is built well. That switch on the front looks like a Carling. Again, quality stuff.
I wonder about the power-consumption compared to these 'newer ironstyles': is 3-wire or 5-wire making the difference?
In a 5-wire layout, the measurements can be done at the same time as heating, but I noticed (on the noise) that the 3-wire iron-stations do take a break between heating and measuring, probably because they use the same wires? I know technically it would be possible to do measurement and heating with the same 3 wires at the same time but probably this could give some measurement-problems and cause overshooting for example?
Maybe Pace can tell? I have some older iron (old technology, 'no-name') with 5 wires that goes into higher power-consumption untill it sensors reach the selected temperature (and then probably overshoots at the tip) right after putting the iron on a bigger plate. That station does get hot though (not only the iron) doing so and impossible to get good tips nowadays since it is using the old copper-wire style tips and is only max. 40 Watt...
Fun, (yep for me) ....“ACCU” is the Dutch language more or less the longtime used term for a care battery. So at first glanced “Accudrive” gave me the idea of a battery powered soldering station.
Why the re-upload?
How well does TS100 do against the Pace?
I will stay with my Ersa Icon Nano for a long time. Heats up very fast, Big choice of good but cheap soldering tips, light iron perfect for SMD but capable of soldering huge wires. Heating behaviour (like overshooting), temperatures, buttonlock and standby timeout can all be configured on a microSD that you only have to plug in once. Has a nice black metal case and the tool stand is just perfect. All that for 170 bugs with free 2 day delivery for all accessories.
I wish I could get this locally in Finland.
I don't know how well they stock, but here is our distributor in Finland:
PRODI OY
Valakkatie 2
00780 Helsinki
Finland
Tel: 358 207 439 439
Fax: 358 207 439 430
Website: www.prodi.fi
Email: prodi@prodi.fi
Thanks! I'll give them a call and see what pops.
The "half in" position (that does not hit the micro switch) is likely a feature?
A lot of what is being evaluated here is thermal transient performance which only comes into play when soldering a really large joint or many joints rapidly, so the thermal drain is more than thermal resistance between the temp sensor and the tip, *freezing the tip*. In that case, the only option is to overcompensate the temperature.
A bit of a special case for the Pace, but maybe a known scenario. The big argument for the JBC stability and response is DESOLDERING TEMPS with braid, which is that type of thermal load. I'm not sure that came up.
It's interesting that the old style iron with the slug tip only differs in performance in the length of time of its thermal response. Seems to be the only difference.
The Pace has probably got some "bounce". Sometimes the only way to get rid of that kind of stuff is engineering trial and error. Maybe some software buffering.
If the Pace has to be set higher than JBC, to melt solder on a given joint, then isn't the temperature of the PACE heating the joint to the same temperature as JBC?
Dave, have you ever used Metcal irons?
Nice item
So was waiting for “ but wait there’s more” comment, great video bud, not a nuns nasty. Lmao. Keep up the awesome work .. 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
cool!
Hey there, what do you recommend ? This pace soldering station, the weller WE1010 or the Hakko FX888D ?
Who is Flin? I did not see him on that video?
Mate what’s the most cost effective way to data log temperature and micro watts??
The cap is in direct contact with the heat sink?!? That will heat up the cap and reduce its reliability. Dumb.
Not the smartest idea.
The bolt is on backwards, someone goofed.. easy fix.
Just bend it out of the way.... Fixed!
I bet Dave received a RevA unit, which had a last minute patch to fix a heat issue on that TO-220 package. Here I am, 17 months after this video was made, and I bet that by now, Pace has a new MLB that has corrected the issue. No company wants to go into production with a board that requires patches like this. It adds labor cost and slows down the production line. Ditto on the temp reading fluctuations. By now, Pace has made a firmware patch to correct it.
Enclosed heat of the transformer should be worse. I wonder why they needed the heatsink on the 7805, the entire microconroller+ADC+LEDs thing should be less than 100mW and they could have had a winding out of the transformer at 8-9V.
Can these tips work on the ts100 ? And is there adapters for tips to use ultra tips with other direct heat units?
All of the thermal performance difference can be attributed to the super thin plating of the JBC tips if this isn't the JBC "long life" series tips. It's nice that JBC gives you the choice, but other makers have designed their tips for durability and so they always have a thermal performance disadvantage. Hakko T12/T15 tips especially come to mind in this regard. Super long life. Somewhat muted performance as a result.