Brings to mind Charles Nungesser, a WWI French ace - he suffered a grievous head wound (actually, a wound in mouth, where an explosive bullet had detonated) while dogfighting against German planes, managed to make his way back to French lines, crashlanded, and then, realizing that the French troops in the area were lining up for inspection by a visiting French general, lined up for inspection, and only after passing inspection, passed out (from blood loss) from his wounds.
The funny thing is, behind the scenes, the cast did this constantly because the uniform jacket kept riding up on them. Leonard Nimoy just did that reflexively, but it was such a great character moment, they left it in.
@@norryonbass6574 Well it's said that the Shat took in three things emotionally for that scene and and it was that he both imagined as Kirk his friend dying as himself imagining Nimoy had died and because originally Nimoy didn't want to play the part Shatner was choked up because he thought he would never work together with Nimoy as these characters.
@@bigoz169 and additionally, Nick Meyer made him do take after take until Shatner had exhausted his supply of ham and just did the scene as written. It was something he used several times in the filming.
So you just met Spock, and raged when you saw him die. Now imagine those of us who loved him from 1966 until 1982 when they killed him off. 79 episodes and 1 movie BEFORE this movie. Yeah. Tears.
I was 15 and in a Glasgow cinema and the whole place was in stunned silence even up to the end titles, i still remember the impact to this day, and on the way out no one was talking, it was like leaving a funeral service walking out of the cinema that night.
I was 9. On vacation with my family in Branson, Missouri. This movie rocked my little world....Spock's sacrifice defined heroism to me as a young girl.
One thing this movie really got right is the idea that Starfleet isn't the airforce; it's the navy. Notice the naval uniforms, the submarine-style ship to ship combat, and especially James Horner's music which absolutely nails the nautical theme.
Gene Roddenberry actually really didn't like it and apparently tried his hardest to get Meyers to change that in the story. Notice how this is the only star trek movie or series to have a separate science division. I only found out about this a few months ago and I remember thinking it was a little weird when I was a kid
@@Welsh_Dragon756 Interesting! I wonder if that is why TNG doubled down on Jerry Goldsmith's airforce march-style score and dispensed with a lot of the nautical theming. It is too bad, because I really love the idea of Trek as a naval tradition in space, and also in my opinion this movie has the better score, but modern Star Trek seems to have left it behind.
@@Welsh_Dragon756 Yeah, agree. I understand that Roddenberry didn't want Starfleet to be primarily a fighting force, but even in TOS they had clearly adapted a military-style chain of command structure. It's always going to feel kind of militaristic in that sense. I just think the naval theme is a cool aesthetic; this movie proves they can do that without making Starfleet seem aggressive or overtly martial.
Imagine growing up with Spock as your favorite character since you were 5 in the 60s, and then watching this movie. People were wearing black armbands in mourning for like a year after this movie.
Remember also that there were many years between when the series ended and when the fans' clamor for another series or a movie finally succeeded in getting the first movie. Going to see the first movie was a near religious experience for millions of fans.
His death sceene still tears me up to this day. I remember watching this with my mother when it first came out and she grew up watching Star Trek in the 60's with her father. It tore her up too.
To give you a sense of Kahn's power levels from the TV show, imagine Captain America's physique, Iron Man's intelligence, Thor's sex appeal, and Ultron's morality.
Much more intelligent than Tony Stark. They were engineered to have 200+ IQ. They almost conquered the world, that's why they were sent off cryogenically frozen in space. They were from the 21st century so they had no experience with 23rd century ship to ship combat so Kirk's age and experience trumped Khan's natural genius
@@zatoichi1 Also Kirk was a genius strategist - as per "Balance of Terror" the Romulan commander says of Kirk "He's a sorcerer, that one! He reads the thoughts in my brain!"
The Wrath of Khan is to this day the #1 scifi movie of all time. Love this movie. Fyi this Enterprise is one of the most loved versions of the Enterprise by Trekkies.
They refer to Saavik as "Mister Saavik" because it's customary in some militaries to refer to members as "mister" and "sir" whether they're male or female.
She was also originally written as male. Hence the break in what had been the conventional Vulcan naming names. It's like a twofer since they purposefully decided to keep it as Mister for your exact reasons (Meyer really wanted to make Horatio Hornblower in Space).
Thanks for clarifying that. If was the only thing about this movie that confused me. And in terms of the character, i pegged her as a Romulan 'cause she was a bit more emotional (eg. She says "Damn!" in the Kobayashi Maru and cries at Spock's funeral - not the normality of a full Vulcan but Romulans are more angry and therefore show more emotion). I much preferred the actress who took her place in Search for Spock simply because she has more of a Vulcanized manner, despite how much my dad loathes her 80s mullet. Like any Vulcan would, in an emotional scene she displays nothing more than disbelief
@@lillyf973 she was originally supposed to be half Romulan, but they cut those lines and then just dropped that angle when they went from Kirstie Alley to Robin Curtis. I can't wait to see him experience the extreme shift in her appearance since he's gonna see it so soon. Luckily Merritt Buttrick really leaned on his line "this is where the fun begins, Saavik" so people would get the point along with her "so human" response.
Fun fact. Before this movie was released, news of Spock's death was laeked which created uproar amongst fans. Part of the reason the simulation at the beginning featured Spock "dying" was to put the audience at ease and trick them into thinking that was it, before his magnificent sacrifice at the end. Still brings a tear after nearly 40 years :)
Notice what's on the bookshelf in the cargo containers, King Lear, Paradise Lost and Moby Dick. Tales of betrayal, loss, revenge and obsession. And you have to imagine that he's been reading those over and over again as he's spent 15 years in exile.
Khan is actually quoting Captain Ahab in Moby Dick as he speaks his last words. That whole last scene with him is line for line taken directly from Moby Dick. Very cool.
In Khan's eyes, HE was the persecuted hero of his story. Abandoned to die on a barren world. "'Admiral' Kirk never checked up on us." Most likely because Kirk never told Starfleet how he nearly lost his ship to a guy who was only 2 days out of a freezer.
I remember seeing an article where the producers were afraid they’d have to put a prosthetic chest piece on him, then they saw him without a shirt… “Nevermind. We’re good.” 😂
Yep, in the first Next Generation episode ever, DeForest Kelley put in a cameo as the very very old Admiral McCoy that I guess still had some influence to inspect the Doctors sick bay and what a perfect escort he had.
I can't remember if I ever thought the Enterprise looked "weird", it's easily the most unique, scientifically logical, and beautiful ship designs in all of sci-fi.
Also RIP DeForest Kelly (Bones/Dr. McCoy), James Doohan (Scotty), Leonard Nimoy (Spock), Persis Kambata (Ilia/Probe from Star Trek: The Motion Picture), Gene Roddenberry (Creator, Writer, Consultant of Star Trek).
@@bradbarter8314 And also Harve Bennett (producer who saved the movies after The Motion Picture), Merritt Butrick (David Marcus) & Grace Lee Whitney (Janice Rand).
@@handsolo1209 And Jerry Goldsmith (composer of the 2nd most famous Star Trek theme music asside from Alexander Courage's from the original series) and of course Majel Barret Roddenberry wife of Gene Roddenberry, Nurse Chapel in the original series and movies plus original series and 90s era Trek series computer voice; as well as Mother to Deanna Troi as Luwaxana Troi.
Back in the 80s before this movie came out we knew Leonard Nimoy didn’t want to play Spock any more and rumors said he would die in this movie,hence the fake death at the start of the film, to throw off the rumors so we would be shocked when he died for real at the end of the movie. Glad you’re watching these. Love your reactions.
The scene where Khan is telling his story is a recap of the classic Star Trek episode Space Seed. This episode introduces Khan and explains why he hates Kirk so much.
@@mem1701movies Not exactly...Star Trek 1, 2, 3 and 4 was a refit Enterprise. It was explained in the Motion Picture that Kirk was no longer familiar with it's systems and why Decker felt he was unfit to be Captain. It was to explain the upscale from TV effects to Film effects.
If you want to understand this film better, go back and watch “Space Seed” from the original classic series. That should fill in a bunch of holes for you. Right now it’s a bit like watching a sequel without ever seeing the first film (show).
Okay, a lot to unpack here: - First of all, you know the title of _Star Trek III_ , right? ;) - Leonard Nimoy wanted to part with the role of Spock at the time. He reconsidered soon after, though. The bits with him touching Bones' face saying "Remember", and the shot of Spocks' coffin on the surface of Genesis were added late in production, to leave some plot-possibility for a Sequel - The effects for this movie were done by ILM, who also worked on _Return of the Jedi_ at around the same time. While these were again done with Models, Matte Paintings and so forth, the Genesis Simulation Kirk, Spock and McCoy were watching was actually done with CGI. As far as I know, this was the first all-CGI-Sequence *ever* in a Movie. - Speaking of effects, you may have noticed the large number of reused shots from the first movie. Thats because _Star Trek II_ had a *much* smaller budget than TMP (12 Million as opposed to 44 Million) and they tried to cut costs wherever possible. 70% of the FIlm takes place on a single Set, as well (the Bridge of the _Reliant_ was a redress of the Bridge of the _Enterprise)_ - Something new they *did* manufacture were new Uniforms, because no one liked the drab Uniforms seen in TMP. - Director Nicholas Meyer was after a darker, more naval feel for this movie, hence the usage of martime lingo. That they keep calling Saavik 'Mister' may have something to do with that. - Space Battles, when they do happen in _Star Trek_ used to be much different than those seen in _Star Wars._ In SW, its all about fast dogfights, whereas in ST it is more like a duel between Battleships, exchanging Broadsides on the Open Sea. The Battle of the Mutara Nebula has something of two Sailing Ships duking it out in a thick fog. - I love how they used Khans' lack of experience in Space Battle against him. Spock correctly assumed that Khan, whose knowledge of Ship Combat likely came from Old Books, was only thinking in two dimentions, ignoring the fact that, in Space, there is a third dimension to consider. Therefore, the "Enterprise" dived down, let the "Reliant" pass over her and then sprung an Ambush. - Probably my favourite moment of this movie comes right before Spock leaves the Bridge for the last time. He looks away from the console in thought, and in these few seconds concluded what had to be done, that he was the only one on board who could do it and also that he likely would not survive... and then he went and did it anyway, to save everyone. You are right, he IS the MVP. I just love this movie so much, hence my exitement talking (typing) about it.
The whole "Nimoy wanted to stop playing Spock" was a misunderstanding. The whole "Spock dies to save the ship" thing was the producers and directors idea, it was even said it was in the contract that Nimoy wanted the character killed, Nimoy got the contract and basically said "Where?". This is why they came up with the whole convoluted thing with the Genesis planet reviving his body. Star Trek III was supposed to be about getting Spocks Katra back to Vulcan to be placed in one of their Katra containing vessels, but when it was realized that Nimoy never wanted the Spock character killed off they decided to make it finding Spocks living Katraless body on the Genesis planet and reuniting his Katra with his body. You're right on everything else though.
Disney's The Black Hole in 1979 had the first all-CGI sequence, as its intro. Tron also had a ton of CGI, and came out before WoK. Also: Spock showed, in that moment on the bridge, the reason he was First Officer--he was as good as his friend Jim at making command decisions.
I saw this in the theatre when I was in the 2nd grade. Spock's sacrifice devasted me. I left the theatre in tears to the concern of my awaiting mother. I used to watch the television series reruns when I got home from school, and Spock was my hero. It still gets me every time.
I have seen this movie so many times that I can recite it from memory. To this day, Spock's death still makes me bawl like a baby as if I was seeing it for the first time. In Starfleet, they call everyone "Mister" regardless of gender.
I went to the theatrical rerelease of this a few years ago. There wasn't a dry eye in the house. Shit, I cried in the Abrams Star Trek movie where they sort of revisited the scene.
Star Trek comes from a naval tradition, in which ships and submarines move slowly. That's why Star Trek ships (while Gene Roddenberry was still alive) don't swoop and dive like airplanes.
well they are suppose to be the biggest of the ships, so are slower and ponderous just like normal large ships. You don't turn an aircraft carrier or battle ship fast, it's impossible, just like these ships which are the largest of the Federation fleet. Sadly in future star trek they made these large ships just agile and manuverable like little aircraft to spice up the shows.
There is also a real cinematic reason as well. Slower moving also suggests larger. Also, you'll notice a lot of shots that are supposed to imply size and majesty are shot from a low angle looking at an "upward" angle of the ship. You will also notice sci-fi tv shows made around the time frame of the film appear to move slower than equivalent ships in theatrical films. That is because the slower moving ships looked better (according to the logic at the time) on the small screen. Faster moving ship looked better on the big screen. The original Battlestar Galactica fighters are a good example of this when compared to the fighters in Star Wars.
That's the most ridiculous "analysis" of _Star Trek_ I've ever heard. WTF does that even mean?? "The ships move slowly, because they have a naval tradition." LOL! Yes, that's it, starships move slowly to _imitate_ naval ships of history...LOL!
Spock is half-Vulcan, half-human. In the "Star Trek" animated series, the subject of his emotions is addressed in a discussion with a Vulcan child in one of the episodes.
He is half-human after all. Still, later Star Trek shows that Vulcans do have emotions, they just use their mental abilities to suppress them because their civilization was almost wiped out hundreds of years before when they were much more like humans.
@@ashleydarkstone1949 Marla McGivers was so taken with him that she helped him take over the ship, and later accepted exile with him, despite having only known him for a few days.
I'm a year or so late but ...the ships in Star Trek are designed after some real scientific concerns. Thee Warp Engines are set on nacelles away from the crew sections because of potential radiation exposure and because they need the distance and spacing to create the warp bubble. Ships with large crews would realistically be more like naval ships than small aircraft as most sci-fi presents them. In short, Star Trek did a little research and is one of the few sci-fi shows that get ships correct. OK artificial gravity is a bit of a crutch but I can give them that one.
@@Gunnar001 Hmm, that comment of mine did not come out right. But yeah, the Jar Jar Abrams versions are trash. Not true trek. More like a fast & furious-esk adaptation.
Leonard Nimoy wanted this to be his last Spock performance originally. After test screenings, the producers knew they had a hit on their hands, so Nimoy came back to record the voiceover outro, keeping the door open for his return.
6:50 So what I love about the book shelf is that Khan quotes every one of them over the course of the film. I like to think Khan was trapped on the planet with his men, reading and re-reading his modest library, seething with resentment towards Kirk. Then he got his chance for revenge, and saw himself as a grand crusader from his stories.
I was 9 when I saw this in the theater. Between this and ET the same year, I think my parents were tired of taking me and my little sister to movies that made all the kids bawl
One thing about the movement of the ships, is that they're basically capital ships (ie battleships & cruisers) so it would kind of feel wrong if they were zipping around like they were fighters or something. But I like how the battle in the nebula is sort of like a submarine battle where everyone is fighting half-blind. They were also calling back to some of the original inspirations for Start Trek which was Horatio Hornblower - that was a series of books set in the days of sailing ships. (which reminds me: you should really watch Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (2003)) Also, it's really cool how they did that nebula in an era of (almost) no CGI: they basically used high speed cameras to film luminescent inks being dropped into a big tank of water to get those effects. * I said "almost no CGI" ... the sequence where they explain what the Genesis Device is was one of the first fully CGI-animated shots in a movie (that & a few sequences in TRON).
@@nickmitsialis Yeah, think that was Rowan J. Coleman and Spacedock, they recently did a video about it which is definitely worth watching: ua-cam.com/video/bOXkAONmHVE/v-deo.html
I remember when this movie came out, there were rumours that Spock would die. Then, after the training sequence at the start, when Kirk turned to Spock and said, "Aren't you dead?" ... the audience laughed, and we thought, okay, that's what the rumour was about. So the end was still a shock. Also, when you see the next movie, there is a different actress playing Savik. But it's supposed to be the same character, so don't get confused.
The idea behind the weird ship designs is you have a saucer where people live and work, and the protrusions a.k.a. "nacelles" generate insane power and radiation to move the ship faster than light, so they stick out farther away. Even where Khan hits, and the cadets die in the long section, the Engineering department... it houses a massive reactor that they operate, but the output goes out to the nacelles, the "legs" of the ship that actually bend space around the whole deal at "warp speed". Nobody wants to sleep next to those.
Mister, in classic times, I seem to recall, was particularly used to refer to midshipmen, which Saavik is; a midshipman. Although TNG calls them "ensigns" for some dumb reason. And I can't say or think "midshipman" without remembering Horst Staley, Jonathan Whitbread and Gavin Potter, late midshipmen of HMS MacArthur, murdered, all alone, on an alien world, by unhuman monsters. (you may not get that reference, because it's not Star Trek, it's real science fiction).
@@Hiraghm Ah, but we're talking about Star Trek's world. Which is why COMMANDER Spock (second-in-command but not the captain) was always referred to as "Mister Spock".
Notice in the scene were Checkov and his captain was investigating Ceti Alpha 6, among the books he saw was "Moby Dick". At the end, the "From Hell's heart I stab at thee" quote was Kahn was a line from Moby Dick, as Captain Ahab's last lines seeking vengeance against the great whale.
I was so blessed to see this in the theater as a kid and 35 years later on IMAX with the anniversary release. On the big screen, especially IMAX, the ship models still look amazing.
Vulcans do have emotion. Terrable savage emotion. However Surak, an ancient teacher/religious figure, taught them to embrace logic and reject their emotions, saving them from a horrific civil war in the process. Those who rejected his teachings fled. Some say becoming the Romulans.
Good job on the Vulcan history! Long ago {80s-90s}, when fan fiction was copyright acceptable when it was done by real science fiction authors that paid royalties to the copyright holders, there was a collection of short stories/novelettes called "Spock's World," that was all about Vulcan history and culture. It had Roddenberry's approval, and it was a source of lore and canon. And some of the stories were quite good!
Khan was quoting from the book Moby Dick. It's a long book (over 300 pages). You might enjoy the movie adaptation more starring Gregory Peck as Captain Ahab.
19:31 He's conquered emotions that would stop him from doing such as this. He's doing this and feeling every ounce of pain though as he saves his shipmates
This is so much better than the JJ Abrams's atrocities. I like how the ship combat is slower and more deliberate like two naval ships in 3 dimensions. I like how both Kirk and Khan use their brains and how Khan is undone by obsession. I like how Kirk and Khan don't have to have a stupid fist fight at the end. In fact, they're never in the same room. This movie really holds up.
I think you're too hard on 2009 Trek. I think that one is a pretty decent movie (though raging punching everyone Spock is cringe af) Into Darkness is horrible though. Beyond I will fight for though, that movie is fantastic
"These ships all look kinda weird" Heresy! Federation ships are some of the most graceful in science fiction. Take a look at the Galaxy-class from The Next Generation. The thing is a work of art.
There's a study on the innate grace and geometric balance of the Constitution class design. It's visually interesting from virtually every angle. Just love it
@@lucasvincent2875 When Gene Roddenberry was asked how he came up with the transporter, he said he had designed this beautiful ship but then couldn't figure out how to make it land. The transporter solves that beautifully... the ship is designed to spend its entire life in space.
I saw this movie when it came out summer of 82. I was 12 years old, huge Trek fan. When mister Spock died I cried real tears. The whole theater was moved and people were crying. Watched this movie at least 10 times that summer. It was (and still is) the greatest cinematic experience of my life. I am 52 years old now and the beautiful dialogue at the end of this movie still moves me.
Khan was basically the perfect soldier engineered back in the 1990's of that timeline (you'd remember the actual 90's being full of "genetically engineered soldiers" movies, with "genetics" being the new toy, all over the news... this is from 1982!). when the war of that time was over, he was cast out and imprisoned, but he tried to escape, was captured again, and sent to outer space. Kirk's ship found him 200 years later, and revived him.... found a colony for him and his people, and that's where we find him here.
The offical timeline is that the 5-year mission was in the 2260s, ST:TMP was in 2270 and ST II: TWoK was in 2285, along ST III and ST IV, and probably ST V. ST VI was around 2296.
@@sergioaccioly5219 Well, people often forget Kirk spent 'two and a half years as Chief of Starfleet operations' post TOS, and in Voyager it's said the 5 year mission ended in 2270, so TMP would probably be two or three years after that. McCoy also says he's been chief medical officer aboard for 27 years, by ST6, and of course, it must be no later than 2293, given the date Generations gives for Kirk's assume death (78 years prior)
Fun facts: The death scene in the beginning during the test simulation was because the report of his death had leaked before the movie’s release so they did it to throw people off the truth that he would die in the end. Also, the torpedo soft landed on the planet was added after initial audience reactions were that it ended on to somber a note. Adding the torpedo gave people hope that they may see Spock again. It truly is a great movie and it become even greater when you know the little behind the scenes things like this.
Historical note: This movie came out when the Falklands War was still going on (1982). In the early days of that war, Argentina surprised everyone by sinking a British destroyer with a French high-tech Exocet missile. So, there was some additional verisimilitude when the audience saw single missiles doing heavy damage to the starships in this movie.
What I love about this movie is that it's not a sequel to the 1st movie, it's a sequel to an episode that aired in the 60s. Bringing back Ricardo Montelban was a very nice touch!
Remember, in the first attack, The Enterprise was crippled with auxilary power remaining to be restored. Scotty said they could only get a few short bursts on phasers. So with the few minutes they had with aux-power still being enabled, they had to make a decision to disable key weapons on Reliant.
"He's not dead. He's not dead." "There's no way. There's no way." If Leonard Nimoy had had his way, Spock would be as dead as Granny's fried chicken. Best. Leo.
No, you're wrong there, that whole "Nimoy wanted to stop playing Spock" was a misunderstanding. The whole "Spock dies to save the ship" thing was the producers and directors idea, it was even said it was in the contract that Nimoy wanted the character killed, Nimoy got the contract and basically said "Where?". This is why they came up with the whole convoluted thing with the Genesis planet reviving his body. Star Trek III was supposed to be about getting Spocks Katra back to Vulcan to be placed in one of their Katra containing vessels, but when it was realized the Nimoy never wanted the Spock character killed off they decided to make it finding Spocks living Katraless body on the Genesis planet and reuniting his Katra with his body.
@@Skyfire_The_Goth Nah, I've listened to interviews with Nimoy and read some making-of books etc, he did originally want Spock to die in ST2. He felt like he was done with Star Trek. But during the filming of ST2, he started having second thoughts. He felt like they were making a great movie, and he might actually want to come back. But the script called for him to die. So they hastily improvised that scene with McCoy ("Remember") to leave some kind of possibility of him coming back, and then later tacked on that shot on the planet.
@@DominantBlaze And I've seen interviews with him that he said he didn't want Spock to die, that the whole idea of him wanting Spock to die came from the book he wrote, "I Am Not Spock", where he was lamenting how, when talking to people in public, the people don't think of/treat him as Leonard Nimoy, they think of and treat him as Spock and it irritated him that people would talk to him and ask him questions about Spocks past and how he (read "Spock") would handle a situation etc. and that he was tempted to have the character killed to distance himself from it, but he was never seriously thinking that, that was basically just irritated ramblings that he thought needed to be out there, to maybe help people understand that the actors are not the characters.
@@Skyfire_The_Goth Yes, but you are confusing the timeline and who wanted what and when. There was no misunderstanding. He 100% wanted Spock to die, and IIRC wouldn't even sign up for ST2 unless Spock dies in it. He was totally happy at first with the script where Spock dies. It was only during the filming that he started having second thoughts. That's why they improvised the "Remember" scene. I've seen him explain this multiple times in interviews.
You have to remember that the Enterprise had no power. The Energizer was out, and Auxiliary power hadn't been restored yet. When Kirk had asked Scotty about phasers Scotty had said "A few short bursts". Now . . . Maybe they could have fired some torpedoes. But its not like they could maneuver either.
The fact that you became so emotionally invested in a character so deeply speaks volumes to the power of this era of film-making. Newer movies have little to no emotional impact besides anger and rage.
This was your BEST reaction ever!!! Loved it! "Anybody else! Literally, it can be anybody else! Not Spock! He's my favorite!" and... as you are looking at the torpedo coffin on the planet, "Pop open! Just pop open! Come on, Spock!" Now I can't wait to see you react to the next one!!! 🖖
This is one of my favorite movies of all time. If you know the story of the production, this shows what you can accomplish when you cut the fat from your filmmaking. Not a single scene or set is wasted. Everything is there because it needs to be there.
It was the actor. When the 2nd TV series was proposed Nimoy wasn't interested in playing Spock. A male full Vulcan character named Xon was added to the cast to replace him. The difference between him and Spock - he wished for human emotions (not suppressed Vulcan emotions). When the TV series was turned into the movie Nimoy came to terms and agreed to play Spock again. The actor who had been cast as Xon was given the role of the space station commander. Nimoy only agreed to play Spock again for this move if the character was killed. Sa'avik is rewritten from Xon and is Spock's successor but another actress plays the role in the 3rd movie. And Nimoy is still with us in the 3rd movie - as its director.
The uniforms, if you were wondering, were so much better in this film than the last one. Behind the scenes, the costumes and outfits they wore in the first movie were basically one-piece suits and wearing them for as long as they did when filming were extremely uncomfortable. When they changed to the new uniforms here with pants and jackets, the crew were so much more relieved.
Just a quickie, Spock calls Savik mister not because of male or female but it's a navy term for officers on a ship back in the day. The director brought a lot of changes to star Trek to try and make it less "stuffy" and more Naval... The uniforms, the more regimented routines etc... The ships imagined as naval ships or submarines in space... The battles for me are so much more fulfilling and realistic than the "pew pew" zipping around of the JJ Abrams movies, where there's no consequences and nothing has any "weight"...
If you haven't seen it, watch the Star Trek original series, the episode called space seed. That's where all this started. Khan is a freakin tyrant who lusts for power and conquest. Like he did on Earth in the 20th century.
Up until Nimoy filmed Spocks death scene, he wanted eagerly to have him ki8lled off. 2 minutes before he actually had to film the death scene, he started to panic.. that 15 years playing Spock would be a finality. He had to be coaxed out of his dressing room. That's what changed his tone on totaly killing him off.
He also flew off the handle (by his own admission) when an attempt to add some green stage blood to Spock's burn makeup went wrong. (The fake blood was too runny and wound up coating and dripping off his hand.) In those moments, the finality of what he was doing hit him hard. It also didn't help that the reactor set was completely airtight when fully enclosed and he had to act without oxygen any time Spock had to speak. So in addition to being emotionally draining, the scene was physically uncomfortable as well.
Such a great movie, been waiting for this turn up since you announced it during the TMP reaction. A few quick notes... Leonard Nimoy wanted to be written out, he'd been trying to separate himself from the character for years and only came back to do this movie if they'd write him out of the franchise. If memory serves, the computer animation for the Genesis Experiment video was one of the first uses of a fully computerised animation sequence in a major motion picture ... we've come a long way since then. As for the slow spaceship shots, you have to remember that these arent small starfighters flying through space, but capital ships ... so it's supposed to resemble watching naval battleships or aircraft carriers battle it out, but in deep space
I remember at the time, when the sequel to this came out in the cinemas, there was an advert promoting public transport. Tag line was “by the time you get a parking space, they’ll have found him”.
I don't remember the details, but George Lucas had a big fight over that in order to have Star Wars open the way it does & left the director's guild as a result so that he could keep it that way. Eventually the rules changed so it's not required anymore and it's rarely done these days.
@@WhiskyCanuck Those rules really fucked Lucas in the long run too. The DGA let him for IV (since the movie was going to bomb by conventional wisdom), but when V went around they demanded he do it right or pay the fee. Lucas paid the fee and then left. This meant he couldn't work with guild directors, meaning he had to go non-union for V and VI (read: greenhorns/foreign directors) and not his friend Steven Spielberg like he wanted (and he had to babysit the director for VI, Richard Marquand, which derailed his marriage/plans for Skywalker Ranch).
Interestingly enough, Star Trek II had several titles before "The Wrath of Khan" was settled on, and two of those previous titles for the movie were later actually used for Star Trek V and VI.
"Mister" is a naval term used for lower commissioned officers on a ship. (Star Trek uses a lot if old naval references) Mister Spock is Mister because the Science Officer is called Mister. A female science officer could be called Mister in the same way a female officer in another branch could be called Sir.
Just to let you know, when they were making this film it was intended to be the last star trek, since the first film wasn't well received. During the filming they realised the film was good, like it had a certain magic to it and so they changed the story slightly to make Spocks death a little more..... ambiguous. Nimoy made up the last mind meld with Mckoy to add that slight life line before going to his death. This openned the way for future films.
It’s pretty common nowadays for franchises to kill key characters off, we almost take it for granted now. But at the time this film was made, it was very very rare for a character as important, established, and popular as Spock to be killed in this manner - the one other example that comes to mind was Col. Henry Blake from MASH. It was very shocking and distressing to the audience. Their impact is one of the reasons it’s become so common today.
Dude, i love this reaction. I grew up with this crew so u can imagine how many tears I cried. "Mister" is just a designation they used in Starfleet for a while to refer to Officers. In real life its actually because the character of Savik was originally written as a male Vulcan. U need to watch "Space Seed", the episode this movie is a sequel to.U mentioned the opening credits being played before the movie. Did u know it was "Star Trek: The Next Generation" TV show that started the whole "credits playing thru the first part of the show". And THIS movie, "Wrath of Khan" was the first movie that got the rights to play something over the opening Paramount logo. Star Trek has been responsible for alot of FIRSTS. Oh, and the Genesis sequence on the computer was the first attempt at CGI in feature films
I don't normally watch reaction vids, but having watched this in the theater when I was a kid, your first watching reminds me just how fun it was to see this when it came out in 1982.
The first movie was originally filmed as a pilot for a new show but then they decided to make a film franchise, so they extended tf out of the shots to make it movie length lol
Fun fact, that was how they actually subverted people's expectations back then when this movie came out. The training scene at the beginning where Spock and everyone else died felt so real to the fans that everyone was so relieved when it was revealed to be a test. So it made Spock's real sacrifice at the end of this film all the more heart-breaking and a genuine surprise.
While credits held over to the end of the movie has become pretty common today, film maker's used to have to get special dispensation from the various industry unions/guilds. George Lucas had a heavy disagreement with the director's guild when he wanted to hold the credits for The Empire Strikes Back to the end as he did for the first movie. He resigned from the director's guild as a result.
![Watching THE LAST DUEL starring Jodie Comer FOR THE FIRST TIME! [ REACTION / COMMENTARY ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IIQy8A_XWiU/mqdefault.jpg)
The dying Spock straightens his uniform before addressing his Captain.
Gets me every time.
Damn. yes it does.
Maintains his professional dignity until his last breath
Brings to mind Charles Nungesser, a WWI French ace - he suffered a grievous head wound (actually, a wound in mouth, where an explosive bullet had detonated) while dogfighting against German planes, managed to make his way back to French lines, crashlanded, and then, realizing that the French troops in the area were lining up for inspection by a visiting French general, lined up for inspection, and only after passing inspection, passed out (from blood loss) from his wounds.
The funny thing is, behind the scenes, the cast did this constantly because the uniform jacket kept riding up on them. Leonard Nimoy just did that reflexively, but it was such a great character moment, they left it in.
Single best character death in cinema history. When Kirk's voice chokes at "most human" it gets me every time.
It’s truly a great acting moment from William Shatner
@@norryonbass6574 Well it's said that the Shat took in three things emotionally for that scene and and it was that he both imagined as Kirk his friend dying as himself imagining Nimoy had died and because originally Nimoy didn't want to play the part Shatner was choked up because he thought he would never work together with Nimoy as these characters.
@@bigoz169 and additionally, Nick Meyer made him do take after take until Shatner had exhausted his supply of ham and just did the scene as written. It was something he used several times in the filming.
So you just met Spock, and raged when you saw him die. Now imagine those of us who loved him from 1966 until 1982 when they killed him off. 79 episodes and 1 movie BEFORE this movie.
Yeah. Tears.
And this was the reason for the title of movie 3. Otherwise a LOT of people probably wouldn't have bothered going......
Infinity war level tears
Yes, I was in shock as a kid 😔
AND the animated series where we saw what his childhood on Vulcan was like.
I still tear up at the end of this movie.
I saw this in the theater when I was 16. Spock's death totally stunned the audience. People were crying.
I was 15 and in a Glasgow cinema and the whole place was in stunned silence even up to the end titles, i still remember the impact to this day, and on the way out no one was talking, it was like leaving a funeral service walking out of the cinema that night.
I have seen this movie dozens of times. I still tear up during the entire Spock funeral scene.
Same here. Saw the first showing in my city. It was hard. Everyone in the audience was in disbelief.
I was 9. On vacation with my family in Branson, Missouri. This movie rocked my little world....Spock's sacrifice defined heroism to me as a young girl.
One thing this movie really got right is the idea that Starfleet isn't the airforce; it's the navy. Notice the naval uniforms, the submarine-style ship to ship combat, and especially James Horner's music which absolutely nails the nautical theme.
Gene Roddenberry actually really didn't like it and apparently tried his hardest to get Meyers to change that in the story. Notice how this is the only star trek movie or series to have a separate science division. I only found out about this a few months ago and I remember thinking it was a little weird when I was a kid
@@Welsh_Dragon756 Interesting! I wonder if that is why TNG doubled down on Jerry Goldsmith's airforce march-style score and dispensed with a lot of the nautical theming. It is too bad, because I really love the idea of Trek as a naval tradition in space, and also in my opinion this movie has the better score, but modern Star Trek seems to have left it behind.
@@darthmix he didn't want star Fleet to feel at all like the military. They are just an exploratory scientific group as he saw them
@@darthmix he did base most of it on naval ideals though so I don't know why he had such a problem with it
@@Welsh_Dragon756 Yeah, agree. I understand that Roddenberry didn't want Starfleet to be primarily a fighting force, but even in TOS they had clearly adapted a military-style chain of command structure. It's always going to feel kind of militaristic in that sense. I just think the naval theme is a cool aesthetic; this movie proves they can do that without making Starfleet seem aggressive or overtly martial.
Imagine growing up with Spock as your favorite character since you were 5 in the 60s, and then watching this movie. People were wearing black armbands in mourning for like a year after this movie.
Yep
tears in the theater seeing this on release day. :(
Remember also that there were many years between when the series ended and when the fans' clamor for another series or a movie finally succeeded in getting the first movie. Going to see the first movie was a near religious experience for millions of fans.
His death sceene still tears me up to this day. I remember watching this with my mother when it first came out and she grew up watching Star Trek in the 60's with her father. It tore her up too.
@@Gidono indeed my hardass uncle broke down a bit in the theater!
To give you a sense of Kahn's power levels from the TV show, imagine Captain America's physique, Iron Man's intelligence, Thor's sex appeal, and Ultron's morality.
And Kirk beat him. (Spock said intelligent but not experienced)
Much more intelligent than Tony Stark. They were engineered to have 200+ IQ. They almost conquered the world, that's why they were sent off cryogenically frozen in space. They were from the 21st century so they had no experience with 23rd century ship to ship combat so Kirk's age and experience trumped Khan's natural genius
@@zatoichi1 Also Kirk was a genius strategist - as per "Balance of Terror" the Romulan commander says of Kirk "He's a sorcerer, that one! He reads the thoughts in my brain!"
And sex appeal. Lt Mcgivers was madly in love with him.
@@silvervalleystudios2486 Good point!
I edited the comment to reflect that.
Congratulations. You just watched one of the greatest movies ever.
I second that motion!
True story.
Absolutely the BEST Star Trek movie made.
The best revenge movie ever.
The Wrath of Khan is to this day the #1 scifi movie of all time. Love this movie. Fyi this Enterprise is one of the most loved versions of the Enterprise by Trekkies.
They refer to Saavik as "Mister Saavik" because it's customary in some militaries to refer to members as "mister" and "sir" whether they're male or female.
She was also originally written as male. Hence the break in what had been the conventional Vulcan naming names. It's like a twofer since they purposefully decided to keep it as Mister for your exact reasons (Meyer really wanted to make Horatio Hornblower in Space).
i believe its a naval thing.
Yeah, at the start of ST: Voyager captain Janeway has to make a point of being called Ma'am because people initially start calling her Sir.
Thanks for clarifying that. If was the only thing about this movie that confused me. And in terms of the character, i pegged her as a Romulan 'cause she was a bit more emotional (eg. She says "Damn!" in the Kobayashi Maru and cries at Spock's funeral - not the normality of a full Vulcan but Romulans are more angry and therefore show more emotion). I much preferred the actress who took her place in Search for Spock simply because she has more of a Vulcanized manner, despite how much my dad loathes her 80s mullet. Like any Vulcan would, in an emotional scene she displays nothing more than disbelief
@@lillyf973 she was originally supposed to be half Romulan, but they cut those lines and then just dropped that angle when they went from Kirstie Alley to Robin Curtis.
I can't wait to see him experience the extreme shift in her appearance since he's gonna see it so soon. Luckily Merritt Buttrick really leaned on his line "this is where the fun begins, Saavik" so people would get the point along with her "so human" response.
Fun fact. Before this movie was released, news of Spock's death was laeked which created uproar amongst fans. Part of the reason the simulation at the beginning featured Spock "dying" was to put the audience at ease and trick them into thinking that was it, before his magnificent sacrifice at the end. Still brings a tear after nearly 40 years :)
Some have theorized the leaker was Gene himself, in a petty act of revenge
Fun fact for years people thought Khan had a fake chest. He didn't that was all him!
Ricardo Montalbán = all man.
LUXURIOUS
CORINTHIAN
LEATHER
*CHRYSLER CORDOBA*
@@decam5329 who liked East German men
@@mem1701movies What?
100% Pure Montalban.
Notice what's on the bookshelf in the cargo containers, King Lear, Paradise Lost and Moby Dick. Tales of betrayal, loss, revenge and obsession. And you have to imagine that he's been reading those over and over again as he's spent 15 years in exile.
Khan is actually quoting Captain Ahab in Moby Dick as he speaks his last words. That whole last scene with him is line for line taken directly from Moby Dick. Very cool.
By the time he escapes, he can quote Moby Dick chapter and verse.
Wasn't there a copy of Fifty Shades of Grey on that bookshelf as well??!!
He also references Paradise Lost at the end of the TV episode where he appears, as Kirk sentences him to exile.
In Khan's eyes, HE was the persecuted hero of his story. Abandoned to die on a barren world.
"'Admiral' Kirk never checked up on us."
Most likely because Kirk never told Starfleet how he nearly lost his ship to a guy who was only 2 days out of a freezer.
*seeing Khan for the first time*
"Oh, really? He's just an old man..."
*Khan takes off his coat*
"Oh no! He's ripped!"
I remember seeing an article where the producers were afraid they’d have to put a prosthetic chest piece on him, then they saw him without a shirt…
“Nevermind. We’re good.” 😂
That was Ricardo Montalbam's REAL chest.
No shit.
Kirk, Spock and McCoy are space legends that will never truly die.
Exactly. If theres any "big three" in the Star Trek universe, its Jim, Spock, and Leonard.
Yep, in the first Next Generation episode ever, DeForest Kelley put in a cameo as the very very old Admiral McCoy that I guess still had some influence to inspect the Doctors sick bay and what a perfect escort he had.
When humans are living on Mars streets, parks, town centres etc should be named after them to recognize each of there legends :):)
They're not really gone, so long as we remember them.
@@colonelquack that line got George Costanza in trouble
He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him.
FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THE!!!
So, if Khan is constantly quoting Captain Ahab, does that mean Kirk is the great white whale?
@@GlennWH26 It's ironic that the next time Moby Dick is extensively quoted in Star Trek, the situation is so much different.
@@boristurovskiy351 not very different, still about obsession overriding better judgment
@@lillyf973 Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins!
I can't remember if I ever thought the Enterprise looked "weird", it's easily the most unique, scientifically logical, and beautiful ship designs in all of sci-fi.
2:45, RIP, James Horner.
Definitely an underrated film composer. Not enough people know his name, but if they're into movies they've probably enjoyed his music.
Also RIP DeForest Kelly (Bones/Dr. McCoy), James Doohan (Scotty), Leonard Nimoy (Spock), Persis Kambata (Ilia/Probe from Star Trek: The Motion Picture), Gene Roddenberry (Creator, Writer, Consultant of Star Trek).
@@bradbarter8314 And also Harve Bennett (producer who saved the movies after The Motion Picture), Merritt Butrick (David Marcus) & Grace Lee Whitney (Janice Rand).
@@handsolo1209 And Jerry Goldsmith (composer of the 2nd most famous Star Trek theme music asside from Alexander Courage's from the original series) and of course Majel Barret Roddenberry wife of Gene Roddenberry, Nurse Chapel in the original series and movies plus original series and 90s era Trek series computer voice; as well as Mother to Deanna Troi as Luwaxana Troi.
@@bradbarter8314 There are so few of them left now, it's very sad. But time passes. At least we have their legacy forever.
Back in the 80s before this movie came out we knew Leonard Nimoy didn’t want to play Spock any more and rumors said he would die in this movie,hence the fake death at the start of the film, to throw off the rumors so we would be shocked when he died for real at the end of the movie.
Glad you’re watching these. Love your reactions.
The scene where Khan is telling his story is a recap of the classic Star Trek episode Space Seed. This episode introduces Khan and explains why he hates Kirk so much.
This was the only movie that directly referenced the original series
@@oaf-77 STAR TREK IV showed the original ENTERPRISE on a screen...so did III
@@mem1701movies yes but 2 carried forward an original story
@@mem1701movies Not exactly...Star Trek 1, 2, 3 and 4 was a refit Enterprise. It was explained in the Motion Picture that Kirk was no longer familiar with it's systems and why Decker felt he was unfit to be Captain. It was to explain the upscale from TV effects to Film effects.
If you want to understand this film better, go back and watch “Space Seed” from the original classic series. That should fill in a bunch of holes for you. Right now it’s a bit like watching a sequel without ever seeing the first film (show).
Okay, a lot to unpack here:
- First of all, you know the title of _Star Trek III_ , right? ;)
- Leonard Nimoy wanted to part with the role of Spock at the time. He reconsidered soon after, though. The bits with him touching Bones' face saying "Remember", and the shot of Spocks' coffin on the surface of Genesis were added late in production, to leave some plot-possibility for a Sequel
- The effects for this movie were done by ILM, who also worked on _Return of the Jedi_ at around the same time. While these were again done with Models, Matte Paintings and so forth, the Genesis Simulation Kirk, Spock and McCoy were watching was actually done with CGI. As far as I know, this was the first all-CGI-Sequence *ever* in a Movie.
- Speaking of effects, you may have noticed the large number of reused shots from the first movie. Thats because _Star Trek II_ had a *much* smaller budget than TMP (12 Million as opposed to 44 Million) and they tried to cut costs wherever possible. 70% of the FIlm takes place on a single Set, as well (the Bridge of the _Reliant_ was a redress of the Bridge of the _Enterprise)_
- Something new they *did* manufacture were new Uniforms, because no one liked the drab Uniforms seen in TMP.
- Director Nicholas Meyer was after a darker, more naval feel for this movie, hence the usage of martime lingo. That they keep calling Saavik 'Mister' may have something to do with that.
- Space Battles, when they do happen in _Star Trek_ used to be much different than those seen in _Star Wars._ In SW, its all about fast dogfights, whereas in ST it is more like a duel between Battleships, exchanging Broadsides on the Open Sea. The Battle of the Mutara Nebula has something of two Sailing Ships duking it out in a thick fog.
- I love how they used Khans' lack of experience in Space Battle against him. Spock correctly assumed that Khan, whose knowledge of Ship Combat likely came from Old Books, was only thinking in two dimentions, ignoring the fact that, in Space, there is a third dimension to consider. Therefore, the "Enterprise" dived down, let the "Reliant" pass over her and then sprung an Ambush.
- Probably my favourite moment of this movie comes right before Spock leaves the Bridge for the last time. He looks away from the console in thought, and in these few seconds concluded what had to be done, that he was the only one on board who could do it and also that he likely would not survive... and then he went and did it anyway, to save everyone. You are right, he IS the MVP.
I just love this movie so much, hence my exitement talking (typing) about it.
You're the MVP here... Most Valuable Poster! Correct on all points!
The whole "Nimoy wanted to stop playing Spock" was a misunderstanding. The whole "Spock dies to save the ship" thing was the producers and directors idea, it was even said it was in the contract that Nimoy wanted the character killed, Nimoy got the contract and basically said "Where?". This is why they came up with the whole convoluted thing with the Genesis planet reviving his body. Star Trek III was supposed to be about getting Spocks Katra back to Vulcan to be placed in one of their Katra containing vessels, but when it was realized that Nimoy never wanted the Spock character killed off they decided to make it finding Spocks living Katraless body on the Genesis planet and reuniting his Katra with his body. You're right on everything else though.
Disney's The Black Hole in 1979 had the first all-CGI sequence, as its intro. Tron also had a ton of CGI, and came out before WoK.
Also: Spock showed, in that moment on the bridge, the reason he was First Officer--he was as good as his friend Jim at making command decisions.
The CGI was done by a branch of ILM which later on be came....Pixar.
I saw this in the theatre when I was in the 2nd grade. Spock's sacrifice devasted me. I left the theatre in tears to the concern of my awaiting mother. I used to watch the television series reruns when I got home from school, and Spock was my hero. It still gets me every time.
I have seen this movie so many times that I can recite it from memory. To this day, Spock's death still makes me bawl like a baby as if I was seeing it for the first time.
In Starfleet, they call everyone "Mister" regardless of gender.
I went to the theatrical rerelease of this a few years ago. There wasn't a dry eye in the house. Shit, I cried in the Abrams Star Trek movie where they sort of revisited the scene.
Star Trek comes from a naval tradition, in which ships and submarines move slowly. That's why Star Trek ships (while Gene Roddenberry was still alive) don't swoop and dive like airplanes.
well they are suppose to be the biggest of the ships, so are slower and ponderous just like normal large ships. You don't turn an aircraft carrier or battle ship fast, it's impossible, just like these ships which are the largest of the Federation fleet. Sadly in future star trek they made these large ships just agile and manuverable like little aircraft to spice up the shows.
Also, is why Saavik is referred to as 'Mister', per old archaic, naval tradition.
Also, in space fighters don't need to swoop and dive like airplaines.
There is also a real cinematic reason as well. Slower moving also suggests larger. Also, you'll notice a lot of shots that are supposed to imply size and majesty are shot from a low angle looking at an "upward" angle of the ship. You will also notice sci-fi tv shows made around the time frame of the film appear to move slower than equivalent ships in theatrical films. That is because the slower moving ships looked better (according to the logic at the time) on the small screen. Faster moving ship looked better on the big screen. The original Battlestar Galactica fighters are a good example of this when compared to the fighters in Star Wars.
That's the most ridiculous "analysis" of _Star Trek_ I've ever heard. WTF does that even mean?? "The ships move slowly, because they have a naval tradition." LOL!
Yes, that's it, starships move slowly to _imitate_ naval ships of history...LOL!
Spock has emotions. He just pretends like he doesn`t.
Yeah, in the first movie he finally comes to terms with them and accepts that side of his being.
Spock is half-Vulcan, half-human. In the "Star Trek" animated series, the subject of his emotions is addressed in a discussion with a Vulcan child in one of the episodes.
@@LaptopLarry330 It is discussed in TNG as well. And I think in two other movies.
@@LaptopLarry330 That was actually a really great episode, really made you empathize with his character. Sad though...
He is half-human after all. Still, later Star Trek shows that Vulcans do have emotions, they just use their mental abilities to suppress them because their civilization was almost wiped out hundreds of years before when they were much more like humans.
I think you will like the title of the next movie.
This
Remember...
lol
Indeed lol.
Star Trek III: the search for more money
Khan is one of those villains where I know he is evil but he could talk me into walking through the gates of hell alongside him.
even more so if you have read the books with Khans' background and upbringing before he left earth.
Not me. If I ever encountered him, I'd kick him right in the nuts.
I think that says more about you than him. The devil is supposed to be pretty charismatic too.
Well, in Space Seed, Scotty and the others did admit their admiration for him.
@@ashleydarkstone1949 Marla McGivers was so taken with him that she helped him take over the ship, and later accepted exile with him, despite having only known him for a few days.
Leonard Nimoy basically wanted to be done with playing Spock at the time, that's why they killed him off in this movie.
"KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!"
The Enterprise is one of the most beautiful ship designs in sci fi history.
Fact.
🤷🏼♂️
Ship designs in Trek are generally pure gold, period.
I'm a year or so late but ...the ships in Star Trek are designed after some real scientific concerns. Thee Warp Engines are set on nacelles away from the crew sections because of potential radiation exposure and because they need the distance and spacing to create the warp bubble. Ships with large crews would realistically be more like naval ships than small aircraft as most sci-fi presents them. In short, Star Trek did a little research and is one of the few sci-fi shows that get ships correct. OK artificial gravity is a bit of a crutch but I can give them that one.
This is probably my favorite of the Star Trek movies. Khan was just awesome.
I guess you didn't see the JJ Abrams versions.
@@DocMicrowave They’re dumb action schlock. They have nothing to do with Star Trek other than the name.
@@Gunnar001 Hmm, that comment of mine did not come out right. But yeah, the Jar Jar Abrams versions are trash. Not true trek. More like a fast & furious-esk adaptation.
Leonard Nimoy wanted this to be his last Spock performance originally. After test screenings, the producers knew they had a hit on their hands, so Nimoy came back to record the voiceover outro, keeping the door open for his return.
6:50 So what I love about the book shelf is that Khan quotes every one of them over the course of the film. I like to think Khan was trapped on the planet with his men, reading and re-reading his modest library, seething with resentment towards Kirk. Then he got his chance for revenge, and saw himself as a grand crusader from his stories.
My girlfriend was a sobbing inconsolable mess in the theater.
I have seen this movie dozens of times and I nust about always cry when Spock dies.
Oh, I've seen the movie hundreds of times and I feel no shame in sharing that I STILL CRY.
I have seen this movie a dozen times, and I got a little teary watching this reaction. What can I say, great writing is great writing.
You have chosen wisely
I was 9 when I saw this in the theater. Between this and ET the same year, I think my parents were tired of taking me and my little sister to movies that made all the kids bawl
One thing about the movement of the ships, is that they're basically capital ships (ie battleships & cruisers) so it would kind of feel wrong if they were zipping around like they were fighters or something. But I like how the battle in the nebula is sort of like a submarine battle where everyone is fighting half-blind. They were also calling back to some of the original inspirations for Start Trek which was Horatio Hornblower - that was a series of books set in the days of sailing ships. (which reminds me: you should really watch Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (2003))
Also, it's really cool how they did that nebula in an era of (almost) no CGI: they basically used high speed cameras to film luminescent inks being dropped into a big tank of water to get those effects.
* I said "almost no CGI" ... the sequence where they explain what the Genesis Device is was one of the first fully CGI-animated shots in a movie (that & a few sequences in TRON).
Yeah, Master and Commander is an awesome movie that really deserves more love.
Whisky Canuck Absolutely would love to see someone react to Master & Commander!
@@nickmitsialis Yeah, think that was Rowan J. Coleman and Spacedock, they recently did a video about it which is definitely worth watching: ua-cam.com/video/bOXkAONmHVE/v-deo.html
I remember when this movie came out, there were rumours that Spock would die. Then, after the training sequence at the start, when Kirk turned to Spock and said, "Aren't you dead?" ... the audience laughed, and we thought, okay, that's what the rumour was about. So the end was still a shock.
Also, when you see the next movie, there is a different actress playing Savik. But it's supposed to be the same character, so don't get confused.
Yeah the first actor got screwed by her agent
@@paulrasmussen8953 nah, I heard she was too busy with Cheers and wanted more money anyway.
We know it’s the same character. Kind of like the Dumbledore situation.
The idea behind the weird ship designs is you have a saucer where people live and work, and the protrusions a.k.a. "nacelles" generate insane power and radiation to move the ship faster than light, so they stick out farther away. Even where Khan hits, and the cadets die in the long section, the Engineering department... it houses a massive reactor that they operate, but the output goes out to the nacelles, the "legs" of the ship that actually bend space around the whole deal at "warp speed". Nobody wants to sleep next to those.
"Mister" is a nautical term referring to an officer who isn't the captain. It doesn't refer to gender. That's why Lt. Saavik is called "Mister Saavik"
Mister, in classic times, I seem to recall, was particularly used to refer to midshipmen, which Saavik is; a midshipman. Although TNG calls them "ensigns" for some dumb reason.
And I can't say or think "midshipman" without remembering Horst Staley, Jonathan Whitbread and Gavin Potter, late midshipmen of HMS MacArthur, murdered, all alone, on an alien world, by unhuman monsters.
(you may not get that reference, because it's not Star Trek, it's real science fiction).
@@Hiraghm Ah, but we're talking about Star Trek's world. Which is why COMMANDER Spock (second-in-command but not the captain) was always referred to as "Mister
Spock".
Notice in the scene were Checkov and his captain was investigating Ceti Alpha 6, among the books he saw was "Moby Dick".
At the end, the "From Hell's heart I stab at thee" quote was Kahn was a line from Moby Dick, as Captain Ahab's last lines seeking vengeance against the great whale.
That reveal of the Kahn character is so much more intense when you watched the tv episode that introduced you to him.
I was so blessed to see this in the theater as a kid and 35 years later on IMAX with the anniversary release. On the big screen, especially IMAX, the ship models still look amazing.
Vulcans do have emotion. Terrable savage emotion. However Surak, an ancient teacher/religious figure, taught them to embrace logic and reject their emotions, saving them from a horrific civil war in the process.
Those who rejected his teachings fled. Some say becoming the Romulans.
Spock is also half human making it that much harder for him to contain his emotions.
Good job on the Vulcan history! Long ago {80s-90s}, when fan fiction was copyright acceptable when it was done by real science fiction authors that paid royalties to the copyright holders, there was a collection of short stories/novelettes called "Spock's World," that was all about Vulcan history and culture. It had Roddenberry's approval, and it was a source of lore and canon. And some of the stories were quite good!
Khan was quoting from the book Moby Dick. It's a long book (over 300 pages). You might enjoy the movie adaptation more starring Gregory Peck as Captain Ahab.
Totally paralleled Moby Dick with all the obsession over Khan's "White Whale" - being Kirk.
You see 300 pages as a long book? Sheeeesh, times have changed i guess
@@schnubbel76 I know he should try reading the count of monte cristo 1276 pages 🤣 my all time favourite book though. Absolutely epic.
@@minnesotajones261 Look, I know Shatner's put on a few pounds over the years but, c'mon, that's a little harsh
@@jasondecharleroy4161 I had to re-look at my post... nice! LOL
4:06, it was a simulation! That's brilliant, which is why they used the Kobayashi Maru test in Star Trek 2009.
Which is a rubbish film...
19:31 He's conquered emotions that would stop him from doing such as this. He's doing this and feeling every ounce of pain though as he saves his shipmates
This is so much better than the JJ Abrams's atrocities. I like how the ship combat is slower and more deliberate like two naval ships in 3 dimensions. I like how both Kirk and Khan use their brains and how Khan is undone by obsession. I like how Kirk and Khan don't have to have a stupid fist fight at the end. In fact, they're never in the same room. This movie really holds up.
I think you're too hard on 2009 Trek. I think that one is a pretty decent movie (though raging punching everyone Spock is cringe af)
Into Darkness is horrible though.
Beyond I will fight for though, that movie is fantastic
@@cheezyfilmsproductions1842 I agree with you on Into Darkness,...it's a travesty & dire imitation of the original 💩👎
"These ships all look kinda weird"
Heresy! Federation ships are some of the most graceful in science fiction. Take a look at the Galaxy-class from The Next Generation. The thing is a work of art.
There's a study on the innate grace and geometric balance of the Constitution class design. It's visually interesting from virtually every angle. Just love it
@@lucasvincent2875 When Gene Roddenberry was asked how he came up with the transporter, he said he had designed this beautiful ship but then couldn't figure out how to make it land. The transporter solves that beautifully... the ship is designed to spend its entire life in space.
They said Mister Saavik because that’s standard naval procedure, or it was at the time, and Saavik was written as a male and changed to female later.
I saw this movie when it came out summer of 82. I was 12 years old, huge Trek fan. When mister Spock died I cried real tears. The whole theater was moved and people were crying. Watched this movie at least 10 times that summer. It was (and still is) the greatest cinematic experience of my life. I am 52 years old now and the beautiful dialogue at the end of this movie still moves me.
The reason they kept calling Saavik mister is because that’s how you refer to an officer in the Navy
Khan was basically the perfect soldier engineered back in the 1990's of that timeline (you'd remember the actual 90's being full of "genetically engineered soldiers" movies, with "genetics" being the new toy, all over the news... this is from 1982!).
when the war of that time was over, he was cast out and imprisoned, but he tried to escape, was captured again, and sent to outer space.
Kirk's ship found him 200 years later, and revived him.... found a colony for him and his people, and that's where we find him here.
Never revealed, it's implied that the film takes place 6 years after the first movie, in the year 2285.
Give or take a few inconsistencies, yeah ('15' years since Khan abandoned, etc etc)
The offical timeline is that the 5-year mission was in the 2260s, ST:TMP was in 2270 and ST II: TWoK was in 2285, along ST III and ST IV, and probably ST V. ST VI was around 2296.
@@sergioaccioly5219 Well, people often forget Kirk spent 'two and a half years as Chief of Starfleet operations' post TOS, and in Voyager it's said the 5 year mission ended in 2270, so TMP would probably be two or three years after that. McCoy also says he's been chief medical officer aboard for 27 years, by ST6, and of course, it must be no later than 2293, given the date Generations gives for Kirk's assume death (78 years prior)
Fun facts:
The death scene in the beginning during the test simulation was because the report of his death had leaked before the movie’s release so they did it to throw people off the truth that he would die in the end.
Also, the torpedo soft landed on the planet was added after initial audience reactions were that it ended on to somber a note. Adding the torpedo gave people hope that they may see Spock again. It truly is a great movie and it become even greater when you know the little behind the scenes things like this.
Historical note: This movie came out when the Falklands War was still going on (1982). In the early days of that war, Argentina surprised everyone by sinking a British destroyer with a French high-tech Exocet missile.
So, there was some additional verisimilitude when the audience saw single missiles doing heavy damage to the starships in this movie.
What I love about this movie is that it's not a sequel to the 1st movie, it's a sequel to an episode that aired in the 60s. Bringing back Ricardo Montelban was a very nice touch!
I saw this movie in the theater when i was a kid, and those ear worms messed me up. Still do...
Same. Nightmares for weeks.
Saw it on home TV (no, on holiday first, I think?) and even on small screen, they freaked me out...
Oh yeah. For sure.
Remember, in the first attack, The Enterprise was crippled with auxilary power remaining to be restored. Scotty said they could only get a few short bursts on phasers. So with the few minutes they had with aux-power still being enabled, they had to make a decision to disable key weapons on Reliant.
"He's not dead. He's not dead." "There's no way. There's no way." If Leonard Nimoy had had his way, Spock would be as dead as Granny's fried chicken. Best. Leo.
No, you're wrong there, that whole "Nimoy wanted to stop playing Spock" was a misunderstanding. The whole "Spock dies to save the ship" thing was the producers and directors idea, it was even said it was in the contract that Nimoy wanted the character killed, Nimoy got the contract and basically said "Where?". This is why they came up with the whole convoluted thing with the Genesis planet reviving his body. Star Trek III was supposed to be about getting Spocks Katra back to Vulcan to be placed in one of their Katra containing vessels, but when it was realized the Nimoy never wanted the Spock character killed off they decided to make it finding Spocks living Katraless body on the Genesis planet and reuniting his Katra with his body.
@@Skyfire_The_Goth Nah, I've listened to interviews with Nimoy and read some making-of books etc, he did originally want Spock to die in ST2. He felt like he was done with Star Trek. But during the filming of ST2, he started having second thoughts. He felt like they were making a great movie, and he might actually want to come back. But the script called for him to die. So they hastily improvised that scene with McCoy ("Remember") to leave some kind of possibility of him coming back, and then later tacked on that shot on the planet.
@@DominantBlaze And I've seen interviews with him that he said he didn't want Spock to die, that the whole idea of him wanting Spock to die came from the book he wrote, "I Am Not Spock", where he was lamenting how, when talking to people in public, the people don't think of/treat him as Leonard Nimoy, they think of and treat him as Spock and it irritated him that people would talk to him and ask him questions about Spocks past and how he (read "Spock") would handle a situation etc. and that he was tempted to have the character killed to distance himself from it, but he was never seriously thinking that, that was basically just irritated ramblings that he thought needed to be out there, to maybe help people understand that the actors are not the characters.
@@Skyfire_The_Goth Yes, but you are confusing the timeline and who wanted what and when. There was no misunderstanding. He 100% wanted Spock to die, and IIRC wouldn't even sign up for ST2 unless Spock dies in it. He was totally happy at first with the script where Spock dies. It was only during the filming that he started having second thoughts. That's why they improvised the "Remember" scene. I've seen him explain this multiple times in interviews.
You have to remember that the Enterprise had no power. The Energizer was out, and Auxiliary power hadn't been restored yet. When Kirk had asked Scotty about phasers Scotty had said "A few short bursts". Now . . . Maybe they could have fired some torpedoes. But its not like they could maneuver either.
The fact that you became so emotionally invested in a character so deeply speaks volumes to the power of this era of film-making.
Newer movies have little to no emotional impact besides anger and rage.
Especially as he's only technically watched 2 films not even the series they're based on and it still hits him this hard.
Without watching the movie, I can tell you exactly what is happening on screen just from the soundtrack. Blows you away.
This was your BEST reaction ever!!! Loved it! "Anybody else! Literally, it can be anybody else! Not Spock! He's my favorite!" and... as you are looking at the torpedo coffin on the planet, "Pop open! Just pop open! Come on, Spock!"
Now I can't wait to see you react to the next one!!! 🖖
How could be is favorite. He is not even familiar with the TV show. Smh
The best Star Trek film ever. This, Star Trek II, VI,and IV are considered fan favorites as well as First Contact.
Absolutely correct sir
Litte fun fact here. The producers said to Leonard Nemoi: If you come back, well give you the best Death scene of all time
"I have been, and always shall be...your friend." Heartbreaking.
Spock is not completely without emotion as his mother was human.
He has emotions, but "controls" and suppresses them. When he loses it, he REALLY loses it.
This is one of my favorite movies of all time. If you know the story of the production, this shows what you can accomplish when you cut the fat from your filmmaking. Not a single scene or set is wasted. Everything is there because it needs to be there.
One of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time for sure.
Back in the good old days they made you wait 2 years to find out if a character was really dead. These days they can't hang it out for 10 minutes.
It was the actor. When the 2nd TV series was proposed Nimoy wasn't interested in playing Spock. A male full Vulcan character named Xon was added to the cast to replace him. The difference between him and Spock - he wished for human emotions (not suppressed Vulcan emotions). When the TV series was turned into the movie Nimoy came to terms and agreed to play Spock again. The actor who had been cast as Xon was given the role of the space station commander. Nimoy only agreed to play Spock again for this move if the character was killed. Sa'avik is rewritten from Xon and is Spock's successor but another actress plays the role in the 3rd movie. And Nimoy is still with us in the 3rd movie - as its director.
The uniforms, if you were wondering, were so much better in this film than the last one. Behind the scenes, the costumes and outfits they wore in the first movie were basically one-piece suits and wearing them for as long as they did when filming were extremely uncomfortable. When they changed to the new uniforms here with pants and jackets, the crew were so much more relieved.
Just a quickie, Spock calls Savik mister not because of male or female but it's a navy term for officers on a ship back in the day. The director brought a lot of changes to star Trek to try and make it less "stuffy" and more Naval... The uniforms, the more regimented routines etc... The ships imagined as naval ships or submarines in space... The battles for me are so much more fulfilling and realistic than the "pew pew" zipping around of the JJ Abrams movies, where there's no consequences and nothing has any "weight"...
If you haven't seen it, watch the Star Trek original series, the episode called space seed. That's where all this started. Khan is a freakin tyrant who lusts for power and conquest. Like he did on Earth in the 20th century.
The enterprise is geometrically one of the most perfect ships in sci-fi. It fits the golden triangle theory of design. Look into it.
The design is also the result of needing dual warp nacelles to create the warp field in the Star Trek universe.
Cool factoid: the Genesis video was the first ever CGI used in a movie. Most of the team that worked on it would go on to found Pixar.
Left the theatre in tears in 1982.
Up until Nimoy filmed Spocks death scene, he wanted eagerly to have him ki8lled off. 2 minutes before he actually had to film the death scene, he started to panic.. that 15 years playing Spock would be a finality. He had to be coaxed out of his dressing room.
That's what changed his tone on totaly killing him off.
He also flew off the handle (by his own admission) when an attempt to add some green stage blood to Spock's burn makeup went wrong. (The fake blood was too runny and wound up coating and dripping off his hand.) In those moments, the finality of what he was doing hit him hard.
It also didn't help that the reactor set was completely airtight when fully enclosed and he had to act without oxygen any time Spock had to speak. So in addition to being emotionally draining, the scene was physically uncomfortable as well.
Spock has emotions. He is just as emotional as anyone, he has just learned to suppress emotions, and think/act logically.
"He makes a choice that only a fool, a hero, or a Vulcan would make." -- Roger Ebert.
Such a great movie, been waiting for this turn up since you announced it during the TMP reaction. A few quick notes...
Leonard Nimoy wanted to be written out, he'd been trying to separate himself from the character for years and only came back to do this movie if they'd write him out of the franchise.
If memory serves, the computer animation for the Genesis Experiment video was one of the first uses of a fully computerised animation sequence in a major motion picture ... we've come a long way since then.
As for the slow spaceship shots, you have to remember that these arent small starfighters flying through space, but capital ships ... so it's supposed to resemble watching naval battleships or aircraft carriers battle it out, but in deep space
I remember at the time, when the sequel to this came out in the cinemas, there was an advert promoting public transport. Tag line was “by the time you get a parking space, they’ll have found him”.
The credits come before the movie because of the Hollywood Director’s Guild has strict guidelines concerning where credits must appear on film.
I don't remember the details, but George Lucas had a big fight over that in order to have Star Wars open the way it does & left the director's guild as a result so that he could keep it that way. Eventually the rules changed so it's not required anymore and it's rarely done these days.
@@WhiskyCanuck yeah, they let him get away with it for ANH but hit him hard with empire
@@WhiskyCanuck Those rules really fucked Lucas in the long run too. The DGA let him for IV (since the movie was going to bomb by conventional wisdom), but when V went around they demanded he do it right or pay the fee. Lucas paid the fee and then left. This meant he couldn't work with guild directors, meaning he had to go non-union for V and VI (read: greenhorns/foreign directors) and not his friend Steven Spielberg like he wanted (and he had to babysit the director for VI, Richard Marquand, which derailed his marriage/plans for Skywalker Ranch).
@@theemperormoth5089 the Empire Strikes Back was the best directed of all the Star Wars movies.
@@theemperormoth5089 wow lucas is really a rogue. A true artist. I don't even like star wars but i like him. He should've kept making movies
Interestingly enough, Star Trek II had several titles before "The Wrath of Khan" was settled on, and two of those previous titles for the movie were later actually used for Star Trek V and VI.
"Mister" is a naval term used for lower commissioned officers on a ship. (Star Trek uses a lot if old naval references) Mister Spock is Mister because the Science Officer is called Mister. A female science officer could be called Mister in the same way a female officer in another branch could be called Sir.
"im pretty sure thats death"
Somehow.....Palpatine returned
Lol
Thats how you do a death scene. There's a huge character death in part 3, several actually. One non human that is as emotional as Spocks.
Just to let you know, when they were making this film it was intended to be the last star trek, since the first film wasn't well received.
During the filming they realised the film was good, like it had a certain magic to it and so they changed the story slightly to make Spocks death a little more..... ambiguous. Nimoy made up the last mind meld with Mckoy to add that slight life line before going to his death. This openned the way for future films.
ItsAPrimate: NOT Spock!! He’s NOT dead!!!
Me: He’s dead, Jim!
🤣🤣🤣
It’s pretty common nowadays for franchises to kill key characters off, we almost take it for granted now. But at the time this film was made, it was very very rare for a character as important, established, and popular as Spock to be killed in this manner - the one other example that comes to mind was Col. Henry Blake from MASH. It was very shocking and distressing to the audience. Their impact is one of the reasons it’s become so common today.
Dude, i love this reaction. I grew up with this crew so u can imagine how many tears I cried. "Mister" is just a designation they used in Starfleet for a while to refer to Officers. In real life its actually because the character of Savik was originally written as a male Vulcan. U need to watch "Space Seed", the episode this movie is a sequel to.U mentioned the opening credits being played before the movie. Did u know it was "Star Trek: The Next Generation" TV show that started the whole "credits playing thru the first part of the show". And THIS movie, "Wrath of Khan" was the first movie that got the rights to play something over the opening Paramount logo. Star Trek has been responsible for alot of FIRSTS. Oh, and the Genesis sequence on the computer was the first attempt at CGI in feature films
I don't normally watch reaction vids, but having watched this in the theater when I was a kid, your first watching reminds me just how fun it was to see this when it came out in 1982.
Dude, you should just look at the title of the 3rd Star Trek movie. It'll help you calm down.
Yeah I reckon they had to give it that title so that the fans didn't riot 🤣
Shhh!!!!
If we're lucky, he won't see it until the opening credits while he's watching it...
@@chrisleebowers 🤣🤣🤣
The first movie was originally filmed as a pilot for a new show but then they decided to make a film franchise, so they extended tf out of the shots to make it movie length lol
And Spock went like a true hero. His wisdom about the needs of the many stills make me wonder.
"spocks not dead" "nah man he ain't dead" "Theres no way hes dead" "thats his pod right? pop open! pop damn you, you aint dead!"
Regardless of how much star Trek anyone has seen, this is a great stand alone sci fi action adventure. Hornblower in space!
I always felt so bad for Captain Terrell.
So many memories watching this with my dad, tears tripping us, Thanks for a great reaction
Fun fact, that was how they actually subverted people's expectations back then when this movie came out. The training scene at the beginning where Spock and everyone else died felt so real to the fans that everyone was so relieved when it was revealed to be a test. So it made Spock's real sacrifice at the end of this film all the more heart-breaking and a genuine surprise.
Now THIS is Star Trek not the crap today.
While credits held over to the end of the movie has become pretty common today, film maker's used to have to get special dispensation from the various industry unions/guilds. George Lucas had a heavy disagreement with the director's guild when he wanted to hold the credits for The Empire Strikes Back to the end as he did for the first movie. He resigned from the director's guild as a result.