Yes I agree , but then again I beleive there is also a been there done that sort of attitude. Let's face it , there is really nothing out there we need. As far as furthering knowledge goes , I think money is better spent on things like Webb , which in my opinion has returned a treasure and continues to do so.
waste of huge amounts of resources. u can send 20 rovers who can operate for decades and do science OR 1 human for a day or two - for the same resources. its such a waste. moonrace was never really about science, but about politics and "FIRST!"
@@SirHefferlot581 I believe the USA has spent something like $22 trillion just on war since the early 2000's. And can you tell me what is a bigger waste of money please?
Not to mention it now is about resources and what comes with resources, war. We do have a no arms treaty in place to stop countries from weaponizing space but we will see how long that lasts. Russia already made weapons for space and well the documents on performance weren’t declassified. They did set up a base but possibly never sent people there. Or they did but they didn’t make it back home. Those documents weren’t declassified either.
Right, the US wastes immense amount of money with little to show for it if it weren't for unicorn companies like SpaceX that are not representative of what most US spaceflight spending is centered on. The only results that the US got were under Kennedy, and Apollo had an even more immense budget associated with it. China is playing catch-up and it is doing so fast, for much less money.
The funny thing is when the US talks about China's space project, it always makes it 'space race', actually China is not racing against any nations, China is just going in its own pace, step by step, to achieve its own goals. To collaborate with China in space projects and technologies, the US needs to put down the 'competition' or 'race' in their mind, otherwise it's gonna always be about 'national security' kinda stuff.
There's a bit more to it than that, though. China is an amazing country in so many respects, but it is one with serious human rights challenges from the perspective of Western cultural sensibilities, both in terms of its own citizens' welfare and those of other nations in regions the Chinese hegemony wishes to and feels destined to control. With no internal will to "improve" in these arenas, any incentives in that direction must be imposed externally with whatever leverage is available, both diplomatically and militarily. For obvious reasons, diplomacy is the weighted preference, but this requires a value coveted by the other party which you possess and they don't. Once given away, you no longer have that leverage, so it's not to be squandered, not given away lightly in exchange for mere promises devoid of action. IRT terms used to describe the current situation, this is not so much a race as it is a clash of two mutually exclusive visions of the future. The US currently has an advantage in technological innovation, a virtue not exactly nurtured by an honor culture in which avoiding the shame of possible failure prevails over entrepreneurial risk-taking (especially when bankruptcy of any new venture is actively and severely punished by the regime). What the Chinese do have which the West comparatively lacks is a very long time horizon in which they plan their future. Slow and steady has been a winning strategy. They are accomplishing milestones at a measured pace, slowly gaining ground while the US's human spaceflight goals have languished. Plans change from administration to administration, with no singular vision or the leadership to commit to one compelling enough to override default congressional mandates of job security for regional constituents (as seen with SLS/Constellation/Artemis, etc). Minus clear leadership and incentives, "business as usual" has prevailed, with only LEO for astronauts to aspire to. Apart from the revolution in reuseable launch systems we are living through, perhaps the best thing to happen to shake things up stateside would be a 'Sputnik-level threat", and what better country than China to provide it?
@@DrMackSplackem I agree. The US healthcare and welfare are the best in the world. The entire history of US hegemony has been peaceful. We never meddled in any war or take innocent lives. Our people are also the smartest in the world. 🥰
@@celxoirealyx we never meddled in any war or taken any innocent lives?! Are you honestly talking about the same USA? our healthcare system is also a joke! It's all about quantity over quality, driven by money hungry pharmaceutical companies. There ARE some programs that attempt to be helpful, but there's always some sort of corruption, even in them. I'm an American also BTW.
The United States can’t even play by internationals rules and laws here on earth , do you seriously expect the US to play by , if there’s one for space ?
Western world that thinks that it has some sort of monopoly over science and technology and tries utmost to stop other nations from get ahead of it, is poised for a very rude awakening. US trying its utmost to keep China or any other non-white nation from developing & competing with it but the more US tries the sooner China develops because it makes them to be more self reliant and grow technologies at home and hence get better deeper understanding and get past USA.
"Let me kmow what you think" I thoroughly emjoy your ACTUAL middle of the road take. This and other episodes have been perfectly done. The exact opposite of propaganda, that weve sadly been accustomed to.
100% same. I was honestly expecting the typical kind of fearmongering about what the so-called "communist party" did or would do, so getting a straightforward, fact-focused reporting of the history and current events was really refreshing.
You’re correct but this is true of the Soviet Union as well. While the US got top scientists like von Braun the Soviets got many scientists plus nearly all the engineers and nearly of the V2 and related hardware. US, Russian, Chinese, European, etc. all the show DNA of German rocketry. For example, Scott Manley has a good video and how the rocket engines on the Soyuz booster, which is still being used now, are extremely similar to the engines on the V2.
and where did you get your sources for that? they were recruited voluntaliry as the allies advance toward germany and were given amnesty for their work in the case that they were affilliated with you know who. besides both side does this, so does it even matter? as truman said, "this has to be done and was done."
China’s dominance in most fields is practically an inevitability, given the size of their population and access to resources. There will come a time when isolating them from shared western technologies simply becomes counterproductive and results in western self isolation. Given the West’s reliance on commerce, self isolation isn’t likely to last long.
Also picking up a fight for no good reason is not a good thing in the long term. USA is doing exactly that. China was banned from international space programme. But they didn't whined, but worked on it for themselves. Now they are the most advanced and resourceful in this field and no country can dictate what to do.
Space exploration shouldn't be a competition but a cooperation. But humanity, ie their leadership, is too selfish to work together for the greater good of all of us.
That's right -- it will remain like that at the very least until we've established ourselves in space. A perspective shift is needed. And in the meanwhile, you have to deal with the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be. And in that world, technological competition drives us to greater heights than cooperation.
@@skycloud4802 China is always open to cooperation. It has proposed exchanging moon samples with the US, but the US refused. According to US regulations, NASA cannot cooperate with Chinese entities. The US government has implemented lots of rules targeting China, such as 10043, which bans most PhD students and researchers from top Chinese universities in the STEM fields from receiving US visas. Before 2020, nearly half of the STEM PhD students in US universities were Chinese, but now top Chinese students prefer to stay in their own country. Additionally, China is the only country in the world with its own space station because Western countries like the United States prohibit Chinese nationals from entering their "international" space station.
When China lags behind: banned from the International Space Station; Wolf Clause When China leads: should cooperate. How hypocritical do you have to be?
I understand that history and competition often drive innovation, but we must question whether this path will lead us to the stars or result in our own destruction. It’s also a reminder of the unshakable evolutionary baggage we carry. Only time will reveal where this leads us. I remain optimistic but our current trajectory raises some concerns.
Hi Alex just wondering when your book will be arriving , I ordered it quite a while ago and was hoping it would arrive before Christmas as it is a present for my grandson. Kind regards Mick w
15:01 US $73.2 billion, China $14.5 billion But China is so much more cost effective that we would need to know if those $14.5 billion buy you just as much or more than the US's space budget can buy in the USA and Europe, which are overpriced and over rated!
the same applies for India and China space budget, India with way less budget achieve the same stuffs with much lower cost but does it make india ahead of china
India should settle border disputes with its neighbors ASAP and stop cuddling upto Western ballsacks... India needs to have some dignity for ONCE! Millions of Indians were starved to death by Churchill during WWII to feed British troops in Europe! They forgot so quickly!
@@tluangasailo3663 India has tons of cheap laborers but does not have the supply chains or materials production or technology that are present in China... They'd have to import everything from China, which will just take away the savings in labor costs and make the whole operation more ineffective and costly! Let alone the quality of labor. Apple tried it and got burned.
The prospect of space and science uniting us - Chinese, American, European, Russian, Egyptian... is deeply enticing - as much as the prospect of space and science dividing us is appalling.
They do occasionally do those too! About a month ago a video on JAXA's SLIM Lunar mission, and some time earlier this year there was one about the ESA x JAXA Mercury mission BepiColombo. The thing is though, there isn't a whole lot else there to talk about. These space agencies operate at a much smaller scale, and mostly do smaller satellites for Earth observation or telescopes. JAXA did do a recent launch on the H3 rocket, but it was simply a military communications satellite. Even the first flight of the new Ariane 6 rocket feels a little bittersweet what with how outdated it feels right away compared to the Falcon 9 and soon New Glenn.
As a thank you to all the Astrumnauts we've designed a custom '1000 Members' Patreon milestone pin and will be shipping them out around the end of the month, fully on us. To get a pin, just make sure you're a Patreon member by November 29th ( Sign-up here: bit.ly/4anEb5u )
Don't know if you noticed, but the U.S. Intelligence Agencies are having a current credibility problem, with all the mal-information that they've been putting out the last decade or two.
Global warming is far from the existential threat the far left makes it out to be. The world will adapt to the change just as it always has. There's been far more extreme heating and cooling periods and life goes on just as it always has.
When China lags behind: banned from the International Space Station; Wolf Clause When China leads: should cooperate. How hypocritical do you have to be?
Communism, covid, microplastics, ethnic cleansing, air pollution, rampant ip theft, involuntary organ harvesting, exploitation of poor nations through the belt and road initiative, human rights violations, disregard for international law, disregard for international Court rulings, continuous violation of the sovereignty of its weaker neighbors, cyber crime, constant interference in foreign elections, a steady stream of outwardly aimed propaganda, currency and global market manipulation....these are just a few things china has been involved in , in just the last 20 years. It is justifiable in every sense to distrust and dislike the cop. They have no defense.
We definitely need a solid and stable permanent site on the moon first. Missions to the rest of the solar system are a lot cheaper and efficient if they start and finish on the moon.
Mars is the only viable gateway to the asteroid belt, too much fuel needed from Earth and would not be enough left for a return, much less delta V needed to get out of Mars gravity well.
I'll just have to copy and paste my comment. Chinese astronauts are called "Yuhangyuan" it means travellers of the universe. Taikonaut was the name given by the west.
Anyone who's read Heinlein's "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" knows that whoever controls the Moon is also capable of making a truly terrifying kinetic weapon even more destructive than the biggest nukes.
@@anzov1n For starters, the yield of the warhead you would need to vaporize an incoming house-sized chunk of Moon rock would be orders of magnitude larger than that of your typical anti-missile missile. It would _definitely_ alter the strategic equation.
@@damonroberts7372 In some ways it may be harder to intercept (in other ways potentially easier) a big extra-orbital object but, even currently, there is no reliable way to intercept ICBMs at scale. Introducing yet another way to deliver destruction is completely unnecessary and doesn't alter the strategic equation in a meaningful way. For a sci-fi concept its definitely plausible and interesting, no argument there.
@@anzov1n So you say. Deflecting a rogue rock from the asteroid belt is one thing (and even then we only have "proof of concept"). Deflecting one intentionally propelled from the lunar surface is quite another. I know that such a scenario is likely decades from being technically feasible... but let me be clear... I know what the PRC is doing right now in the Asia-Pacific, and in Antarctica, and I _do not_ trust their ambitions, down here on Earth, or in space. The US in particular would be foolish to dismiss the possibility.
I adore your work, though why must the mic be so overly tuned through aperture? It means I must mute and read captions, or heavily reduce volume and listen with pain and effort :(
One other thing that has caught my interest from CSA proposals is the _Shensuo_ programme, their "answer" to the Voyagers, apparently two probes set to explore the "nose" and "tail" of the heliosphere
I appreciate hearing about advances in space technology, science, and exploration irrespective of the nation funding it. 95% of the world does not live in the USA, but a majority of the content on youtube is about NASA with occasional reference to ESA. Please produce more content like this covering the wider space community
I wonder why the majority of content on UA-cam is about NASA? It’s almost like they’ve had the majority of successful space missions or something…weird 😂
This is a really tough question, I don’t know, but thank you for posing/posting the question. I’d hope we could agree on minimal specs to allow for mutual search and rescue
Considering how advanced the Tiangong is, and how quickly China is advancing while NASA languishes in private contract deals, falling further and further behind schedule, I think the best outcome would definitely be for the US to provide its intel to China so that they can actually get the results we all want or maybe even need. On the other hand, it would be necessary for China to open up about their processes and results, which they may be reluctant to do. It certainly feels like national/governmental priorities are holding back the scientific advancement of all humanity in this regard.
The US budget for space includes profit for shareholders of various companies. China's efforts are operated by their government much more, eliminating so many middlemen. The actual product created by the US budget is not that much more than that of China.
Great video! Intriguing analysis. I hope we can become a unified team moving out into space and building a new place for us to live and thrive. The show Space Force was hilarious.
Omg Alex this video is so amazing! Your content is ALWAYS phenomenal- but I REALLY love this one, it’s so interesting!! Admittedly, my US-centric knowledge of other country’s space programs is very, VERY limited (even though I actively look up space developments, etc. and have a massive love of it!)
14:50 NO! The best outcome is absolutely NOT stopping the competition. The last time we focused everything on 'cooperation' in space, we did managed to get a single space station, but then we had nearly 20 years of utter industry stagnation likely driven by some amount of malice. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!
Getting to moon is 60s was just political stunt. It was so insanely expensive that had little future purpose. What it really did is spur technology on Earth. Now it's far cheaper. The real drive that will cause the drive is what they find on Mars and the Moon.
A lot of that has to do with the Cold War ending but it’s clear there is a new Cold War so I wouldn’t worry about lack of funds as much. We just need politicians to feel threatened again… any day now.
Competition results in accomplishments. Cooperation results in committees... Without competition, NASA has been sitting back on its laurels. It's nice to see a new contender to humanity's exploration of the universe.
@@Jake1702 competition is only needed because politicians do nlt value science unless they fear of missing out. It is a flaw of the political system to need an incentive based on insecurity and fear. Funding should be persistent regardless of competition and political landscape.
A dystopian nation becoming dominant in space development and colonization sounds equally frightening and unlikely. One factor in off world success is going to be willingness to sacrifice lives and environment. China has a big advantage there. However the need to decentralize skill and innovation for a frontier colony to succeed I just don't see.
That's an overstatement. The US has a ton of collaborations with most of the world. It's a shame we aren't collaborating with China but the CCP repeatedly showed that it uses collaboration to steal technology to a level that very few other countries do so we refused to work with them. (I am aware that countries steal tech from each other all the time but China's industrial espionage was at a level that was really unprecedented in modern times) We're seeing a new cold war forming between authoritarian governments and globalist/free trade countries and this space race is going to largely be between the two most powerful actors in both blocs. I do wish that it were practical for the US and China to work together on space exploration. China has a surprisingly good space program. (Along with the Indians, another country I wish we were doing more collaboration with)
Lol. That’s just Astrum’s spin on it. Which is weird, because it’s factually inaccurate. The U.S. collaborates scientifically with many nations, on earth, and in space. It just won’t be with China, because they’re thieves.
@@danheidel And they dont care and would do it every single time to our faces. Better to stop letting them steal everything and just put a china stamp on it like they always do. Which is why China will NEVER lead in space because they have to steal everything first and you cant be first if you rely on stealing the tech to keep up.
My thoughts exactly, SpaceX, Blue Origin, Sierra Space, NanoRacks, Axiom Space etc. etc. etc. China will never catch up with the American entrepreneurs!
Thanks for making this informative video, it was fascinating. Extra thank you for making it as non political as possible, considering the climate surrounding it these days.
The China vs US space race means we're going to see some cool things in the coming years. But imagine how much faster and how much more epic those cool things would be if the US and China worked together as one to get humanity to the Stars.
If you actually look at the phrase "developing country", you'll probably find an easy-to-miss detail that it started with the word "developing". If the US is still growing as China does, then the US is also a "developing country".
im not sure a budget comparison is a good metric to gauge future success - the US' spending on space projects is notoriously inneficient and vulnerable to political meddling. im sure we would be way farther ahead if the space budget was actually managed properly
China does have more corruption though, I think if we include private firms like SpaceX, America I believe to be more efficient. ESA probably will keep falling behind though :(
Very, very cool video! It was great learning about other space programs! Personally, I would like to see an international agreement that all operations outside of low Earth orbit to be considered as missions of humanity, rather than nationalistic.
It’s true if you are only considering NASA. However comercial space companies around the world are quickly becoming very powerful. Space X is in my opinion quickly becoming a leader in space development. Government ran programs have way too much waste, and lack of vision moving forward.
That's not the true picture though. Yes, SpaceX is becoming the biggest revenue generator, but they're not doing his to explore space. SpaceX is a corporation, needing more income than expenses to exist. So, they monetise low-orbit transports. That is big business today. For the really expensive bits, only state funded programs will work, as these are guaranteed to lose billions, or even a trillion, like the old space race. Without NASA SpaceX wouldn't have anything.
6:15 why hasn't anyone else ever tried this? 6:31 A big leap forwards! Even if the plants were short lived, they still budded which is an insane leap forwards in of itself. 7:58 ah that's why... what a bummer.
China's space exploration has close cooperation with Europe and other countries. The rocket that launched not long ago carried Italian equipment, and there will be cooperation in the space station and other aspects in the future. Don't you check the facts and just talk nonsense?
Competition and co-operation are both key elements of biological evolution and are built into the human genome. In the same way, balance between democratic, often wasteful entrepreneurship and central economic co-ordination produce more effective progress overall. Having two major players with different approaches, funding and philosophies directed towards space exploration and extraterrestrial settlement is optimal. Thank you for expanding my knowledge of the Chinese programmes way beyond what I previously knew.
What would it take to stop competition and to start sharing research and building space projects together? One global space program. Could that bring about better results and faster progress? Just thinking out loud…😅
Bill Nelson, NASA's Administrator, has publicly stated that he is worried that China will make territorial claims on the moon the same way they have in the South China Sea. China has stated that they accept the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which prohibits such claims, but this ignores they way that their terrestrial territorial claims have often violated international standards--just ask anybody from Tibet!
Yeah, the countries that the US has bombed, invaded, occupied, stolen land and resources, did regime changes, armed terrorists over 75 yrs are all laughing heartily at your international law and standards joke. I can show you the picture of US base on stolen land in different countries including mine.
They also said that about the antartic treaties that prohibit teritorial claims in the arctic but now they are tailoring them to help the PLA in through their research. Dont be suprised if we see military domes there soon.
You have never seen Tibetans or communicated with them, and you have not even been to Tibet. Why do you swear that Tibetans are not living well? Tibet is developing very well, the living standards of Tibetans have improved a lot, and Tibetans support China.
U.S. space programs are plagued by political and public unwillingness to do hard things like Kennedy said in 1960's.
I would say it is more plagued by spending all of it's R&D money on weapons.
That's where the term enshitification comes from. Corporations are more worried about quarter performance than long term investment.
The big problem is overspending. SLS is a money eater, not a viable space transportation technology.
Yes I agree , but then again I beleive there is also a been there done that sort of attitude.
Let's face it , there is really nothing out there we need.
As far as furthering knowledge goes , I think money is better spent on things like Webb , which in my opinion has returned a treasure and continues to do so.
I agree with you!
China and the US being in a space race to the moon means we're gonna see some extremely cool stuff over the next decade.
Or doom. Who knows.
Space-based Organ harvesting is gonna be the boom market of the 2040s
waste of huge amounts of resources. u can send 20 rovers who can operate for decades and do science OR 1 human for a day or two - for the same resources. its such a waste. moonrace was never really about science, but about politics and "FIRST!"
@@SirHefferlot581 I believe the USA has spent something like $22 trillion just on war since the early 2000's. And can you tell me what is a bigger waste of money please?
Not to mention it now is about resources and what comes with resources, war. We do have a no arms treaty in place to stop countries from weaponizing space but we will see how long that lasts. Russia already made weapons for space and well the documents on performance weren’t declassified. They did set up a base but possibly never sent people there. Or they did but they didn’t make it back home. Those documents weren’t declassified either.
gauging success by the amount of money spent instead of the results is the most american thing ever
I mean have China relanded rockets like the US/US companies have?
@@Alice-si8uz yes. they have. Recently
Right, the US wastes immense amount of money with little to show for it if it weren't for unicorn companies like SpaceX that are not representative of what most US spaceflight spending is centered on. The only results that the US got were under Kennedy, and Apollo had an even more immense budget associated with it. China is playing catch-up and it is doing so fast, for much less money.
@@MarWeyog name the rockets then.
ok, give me the list of chinese accomplishments in space (or really just technology in general) compared to the west. China is a fυcking shiτhole bro
The funny thing is when the US talks about China's space project, it always makes it 'space race', actually China is not racing against any nations, China is just going in its own pace, step by step, to achieve its own goals. To collaborate with China in space projects and technologies, the US needs to put down the 'competition' or 'race' in their mind, otherwise it's gonna always be about 'national security' kinda stuff.
There's a bit more to it than that, though. China is an amazing country in so many respects, but it is one with serious human rights challenges from the perspective of Western cultural sensibilities, both in terms of its own citizens' welfare and those of other nations in regions the Chinese hegemony wishes to and feels destined to control. With no internal will to "improve" in these arenas, any incentives in that direction must be imposed externally with whatever leverage is available, both diplomatically and militarily. For obvious reasons, diplomacy is the weighted preference, but this requires a value coveted by the other party which you possess and they don't. Once given away, you no longer have that leverage, so it's not to be squandered, not given away lightly in exchange for mere promises devoid of action.
IRT terms used to describe the current situation, this is not so much a race as it is a clash of two mutually exclusive visions of the future. The US currently has an advantage in technological innovation, a virtue not exactly nurtured by an honor culture in which avoiding the shame of possible failure prevails over entrepreneurial risk-taking (especially when bankruptcy of any new venture is actively and severely punished by the regime).
What the Chinese do have which the West comparatively lacks is a very long time horizon in which they plan their future. Slow and steady has been a winning strategy. They are accomplishing milestones at a measured pace, slowly gaining ground while the US's human spaceflight goals have languished. Plans change from administration to administration, with no singular vision or the leadership to commit to one compelling enough to override default congressional mandates of job security for regional constituents (as seen with SLS/Constellation/Artemis, etc). Minus clear leadership and incentives, "business as usual" has prevailed, with only LEO for astronauts to aspire to.
Apart from the revolution in reuseable launch systems we are living through, perhaps the best thing to happen to shake things up stateside would be a 'Sputnik-level threat", and what better country than China to provide it?
@@DrMackSplackem I agree. The US healthcare and welfare are the best in the world. The entire history of US hegemony has been peaceful. We never meddled in any war or take innocent lives. Our people are also the smartest in the world. 🥰
That is just Americans think. As if the whole world is merely a reflection of their own greatness.
@@celxoirealyx we never meddled in any war or taken any innocent lives?!
Are you honestly talking about the same USA?
our healthcare system is also a joke! It's all about quantity over quality, driven by money hungry pharmaceutical companies.
There ARE some programs that attempt to be helpful, but there's always some sort of corruption, even in them.
I'm an American also BTW.
They don't even trust each other.
The United States can’t even play by internationals rules and laws here on earth , do you seriously expect the US to play by , if there’s one for space ?
The United States are the rules. We live on planet America so get over it.
Suddenly?I am sorry, the chinese moon programme is going on for nearly 20 years , and the space ship programme even longer,
Western world that thinks that it has some sort of monopoly over science and technology and tries utmost to stop other nations from get ahead of it, is poised for a very rude awakening. US trying its utmost to keep China or any other non-white nation from developing & competing with it but the more US tries the sooner China develops because it makes them to be more self reliant and grow technologies at home and hence get better deeper understanding and get past USA.
"Let me kmow what you think"
I thoroughly emjoy your ACTUAL middle of the road take.
This and other episodes have been perfectly done. The exact opposite of propaganda, that weve sadly been accustomed to.
100% same. I was honestly expecting the typical kind of fearmongering about what the so-called "communist party" did or would do, so getting a straightforward, fact-focused reporting of the history and current events was really refreshing.
Disagree, the video commentary oozes with pro China perspective
I think so too@@robadubbdubb
8:28 correction: The US would never took off to space without the need of GERMAN SCIENTIST they forced them to collab with the NASA
Those German scientists were praying to be captured by the Americans. The alternative was to go to Russia.
You’re correct but this is true of the Soviet Union as well. While the US got top scientists like von Braun the Soviets got many scientists plus nearly all the engineers and nearly of the V2 and related hardware. US, Russian, Chinese, European, etc. all the show DNA of German rocketry. For example, Scott Manley has a good video and how the rocket engines on the Soyuz booster, which is still being used now, are extremely similar to the engines on the V2.
Currently; Russian technology in spacex and other start up company rockets
Well, that German scientist only ever knew ANYthing because Gleepgloorp and HIS LITTLE GREEN MEN were lederhosen afficianados.
and where did you get your sources for that? they were recruited voluntaliry as the allies advance toward germany and were given amnesty for their work in the case that they were affilliated with you know who.
besides both side does this, so does it even matter? as truman said, "this has to be done and was done."
China’s dominance in most fields is practically an inevitability, given the size of their population and access to resources. There will come a time when isolating them from shared western technologies simply becomes counterproductive and results in western self isolation. Given the West’s reliance on commerce, self isolation isn’t likely to last long.
Also picking up a fight for no good reason is not a good thing in the long term.
USA is doing exactly that.
China was banned from international space programme.
But they didn't whined, but worked on it for themselves.
Now they are the most advanced and resourceful in this field and no country can dictate what to do.
Space exploration shouldn't be a competition but a cooperation. But humanity, ie their leadership, is too selfish to work together for the greater good of all of us.
There should be a global space agency where every nation puts money and tech into the project for the benefit of all
That's right -- it will remain like that at the very least until we've established ourselves in space. A perspective shift is needed.
And in the meanwhile, you have to deal with the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be. And in that world, technological competition drives us to greater heights than cooperation.
Starting from US banning China from the International Space Station?
@@skycloud4802 China is always open to cooperation. It has proposed exchanging moon samples with the US, but the US refused. According to US regulations, NASA cannot cooperate with Chinese entities. The US government has implemented lots of rules targeting China, such as 10043, which bans most PhD students and researchers from top Chinese universities in the STEM fields from receiving US visas. Before 2020, nearly half of the STEM PhD students in US universities were Chinese, but now top Chinese students prefer to stay in their own country. Additionally, China is the only country in the world with its own space station because Western countries like the United States prohibit Chinese nationals from entering their "international" space station.
When China lags behind: banned from the International Space Station; Wolf Clause
When China leads: should cooperate.
How hypocritical do you have to be?
China is ambitious and very enterprising. I feel so happy for them and wish and hope for the Chinese people every success. Very impressive progression
Really interested in understanding how China's "cutting corners" on safety. China's space launches seems very successful from my recollection.
Step one: only report succeses.
@@thekaxmax Do you have the link to their failure .
作为太空探索的后来者，自然会学习到美苏太空开拓者的很多经验，过于激进，或者进入太空竞赛，会带来灾难，我们是比较保守的。20年前我们第一个宇航员进入太空
I would have been so nice to see this as humanity (as a whole) making it's first steps into space colonization rather than a rivalry.
That is a dream I have. That we can all become one people and explore instead of fighting each other to explore.
Rivarly and conflict has always been the prime motivation.
If we could do that we wouldn’t have destroyed our planet to begin with 😅
Competition is the true path to innovation and results.
I understand that history and competition often drive innovation, but we must question whether this path will lead us to the stars or result in our own destruction. It’s also a reminder of the unshakable evolutionary baggage we carry. Only time will reveal where this leads us. I remain optimistic but our current trajectory raises some concerns.
I loved this! I wanna know what every country is doing in the world of astronomy and cosmology. In the end, we're all on this blue marble together ❤
Some are busy. Getting more wives, others are busy oppressing themselves
Hey if you've seen how crazy things are getting on Earth, you'd be very interested in the Moon too
They are the ones making things crazy here....
Hi Alex just wondering when your book will be arriving , I ordered it quite a while ago and was hoping it would arrive before Christmas as it is a present for my grandson.
Kind regards
Mick w
15:01 US $73.2 billion, China $14.5 billion
But China is so much more cost effective that we would need to know if those $14.5 billion buy you just as much or more than the US's space budget can buy in the USA and Europe, which are overpriced and over rated!
the same applies for India and China space budget, India with way less budget achieve the same stuffs with much lower cost but does it make india ahead of china
India should settle border disputes with its neighbors ASAP and stop cuddling upto Western ballsacks... India needs to have some dignity for ONCE! Millions of Indians were starved to death by Churchill during WWII to feed British troops in Europe! They forgot so quickly!
We have pockets to grease at every step
they use child slaves
@@tluangasailo3663 India has tons of cheap laborers but does not have the supply chains or materials production or technology that are present in China... They'd have to import everything from China, which will just take away the savings in labor costs and make the whole operation more ineffective and costly! Let alone the quality of labor. Apple tried it and got burned.
Neil Armstrong: Sorry, I forgot to bring souvenirs.
Nihao ArmSoLong: Don't worry, I got it [offers moon soil].
underrated comment
Here we see the ‘dog whistle’ being used in its most common setting.
Notice the time and effort spent creating that dog whistle.
Always love when an Astrum vid drops!!
it should be a joint effort by all countries
The prospect of space and science uniting us - Chinese, American, European, Russian, Egyptian... is deeply enticing - as much as the prospect of space and science dividing us is appalling.
haha.....The Egyptians have not completed any global projects for 3000 years, freind.
However, Americans cannot show their heroism without setting up a big villain.
I like it. I would love to hear more about the Europe and other groups/nations who are doing space stuff.
They do occasionally do those too! About a month ago a video on JAXA's SLIM Lunar mission, and some time earlier this year there was one about the ESA x JAXA Mercury mission BepiColombo.
The thing is though, there isn't a whole lot else there to talk about. These space agencies operate at a much smaller scale, and mostly do smaller satellites for Earth observation or telescopes. JAXA did do a recent launch on the H3 rocket, but it was simply a military communications satellite. Even the first flight of the new Ariane 6 rocket feels a little bittersweet what with how outdated it feels right away compared to the Falcon 9 and soon New Glenn.
As a thank you to all the Astrumnauts we've designed a custom '1000 Members' Patreon milestone pin and will be shipping them out around the end of the month, fully on us. To get a pin, just make sure you're a Patreon member by November 29th ( Sign-up here: bit.ly/4anEb5u )
Who is fighting? More like friendly competition
You should re-check your data about China's economy. I am reading the exact opposite of what you claim.
Don't know if you noticed, but the U.S. Intelligence Agencies are having a current credibility problem, with all the mal-information that they've been putting out the last decade or two.
I love you, Alex 🤗
🥺
we need to start being able trust each other
Thankyou, thats the most ive ever heard about chinas space involvement.
I wish we could all cooperate in space exploration but above all in nature restoration and global warming mitigation.
Global warming is far from the existential threat the far left makes it out to be. The world will adapt to the change just as it always has. There's been far more extreme heating and cooling periods and life goes on just as it always has.
China is promoting the development of green energy, while US is doing the opposite
And space research is vital to both, now and in the future
When China lags behind: banned from the International Space Station; Wolf Clause
When China leads: should cooperate.
How hypocritical do you have to be?
Let the China paranoia continue…
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Thank you for not hyper-politicizing China in a Sinophobic way. The universe loaned us our earth and it will take it back.
Communism, covid, microplastics, ethnic cleansing, air pollution, rampant ip theft, involuntary organ harvesting, exploitation of poor nations through the belt and road initiative, human rights violations, disregard for international law, disregard for international Court rulings, continuous violation of the sovereignty of its weaker neighbors, cyber crime, constant interference in foreign elections, a steady stream of outwardly aimed propaganda, currency and global market manipulation....these are just a few things china has been involved in , in just the last 20 years. It is justifiable in every sense to distrust and dislike the cop. They have no defense.
I have to ask, given the time frames covered, what do you consider anti-SEA? Or more about anti-west Taiwan?
Colonizing Mars is a fool's game. Colonizing the moon will produce technologies and metamaterials that will help farm asteroids.
We definitely need a solid and stable permanent site on the moon first. Missions to the rest of the solar system are a lot cheaper and efficient if they start and finish on the moon.
Mars is the only viable gateway to the asteroid belt, too much fuel needed from Earth and would not be enough left for a return, much less delta V needed to get out of Mars gravity well.
I would be helpful as “truck stop” for missions to the Jovian moons.
Eventually creating a space base or something of the likes on mars would be great to get to places like moons on jupiter/saturn
Only an actual "Fool" makes such statements.
not many scientist in the comment section
too many commentists in the science section
@@SirHefferlot581lol
Well according to the information we have, China will surpass everyone in space tech like they have surpassed others.
I'll just have to copy and paste my comment. Chinese astronauts are called "Yuhangyuan" it means travellers of the universe. Taikonaut was the name given by the west.
Anyone who's read Heinlein's "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" knows that whoever controls the Moon is also capable of making a truly terrifying kinetic weapon even more destructive than the biggest nukes.
True. But I think Ben Bova's Moonwar is a more realistic scenario.
Because nukes are somehow lacking in terrifying destructive power? These kinetic weapons would add little to the overall strategic equation.
@@anzov1n For starters, the yield of the warhead you would need to vaporize an incoming house-sized chunk of Moon rock would be orders of magnitude larger than that of your typical anti-missile missile. It would _definitely_ alter the strategic equation.
@@damonroberts7372 In some ways it may be harder to intercept (in other ways potentially easier) a big extra-orbital object but, even currently, there is no reliable way to intercept ICBMs at scale. Introducing yet another way to deliver destruction is completely unnecessary and doesn't alter the strategic equation in a meaningful way.
For a sci-fi concept its definitely plausible and interesting, no argument there.
@@anzov1n So you say. Deflecting a rogue rock from the asteroid belt is one thing (and even then we only have "proof of concept"). Deflecting one intentionally propelled from the lunar surface is quite another. I know that such a scenario is likely decades from being technically feasible... but let me be clear... I know what the PRC is doing right now in the Asia-Pacific, and in Antarctica, and I _do not_ trust their ambitions, down here on Earth, or in space. The US in particular would be foolish to dismiss the possibility.
That feeling when a new astrum video drops😊
That feeling when knee surgery tomorrow😏
Wrong emoji.
😊 ✅
😏 ❌
@@Markaras let me fix that real quick
yt really removed my knee surgery comment
@@Enteropy23 YT will censor all sorts of harmless comments.
NASA afraid of China stealing technology? Soon NASA will be stealing Chinese technology. 😅
LOL
US has copied the Soviet space program to send people into space as well as build a space station.
Not really. Most Chinese stuff is not cutting edge, just derivative although well execued. Well behind in chip manufactture.
Why would NASA steal from China if everything China has is already stolen and known by NASA in the first place 🤣
@@rogerphelps9939 Keep thinking like this US will go far . lol
Good job. This is very interesting.
Video doesn’t elaborate on anything as to why China is “ suddenly “ interested in the moon.
Great job.
Ten trillion dollars market
@@后宫后 stop releasing hydrogen atoms on the streets man
Sounds like a 20 minute propaganda piece.
Which means it was sudden at all rather gradual increase in effort
clickbait title, clickbait wording
If we can not find unity on the ground, we don't yet deserve the stars
That "China" in the first minute should be a cut to Trump saying it. Please edit the video accordingly, thank you.
Fair play on what was a great balanced video. It's a shame that the UA-cam algorithm doesn't like it
They hope to find the blueprints for Apollo.
I adore your work, though why must the mic be so overly tuned through aperture? It means I must mute and read captions, or heavily reduce volume and listen with pain and effort :(
Doubt that the Chinese think to be in a space race.
One other thing that has caught my interest from CSA proposals is the _Shensuo_ programme, their "answer" to the Voyagers, apparently two probes set to explore the "nose" and "tail" of the heliosphere
I appreciate hearing about advances in space technology, science, and exploration irrespective of the nation funding it. 95% of the world does not live in the USA, but a majority of the content on youtube is about NASA with occasional reference to ESA. Please produce more content like this covering the wider space community
I wonder why the majority of content on UA-cam is about NASA? It’s almost like they’ve had the majority of successful space missions or something…weird 😂
@@fischer0762Spaceflight is about cooperation. There is no true 100% murican space mission.
Stop your American inferiority complex
This is a really tough question, I don’t know, but thank you for posing/posting the question. I’d hope we could agree on minimal specs to allow for mutual search and rescue
All behind space X
Yes, the one company is going to save the west.
Considering how advanced the Tiangong is, and how quickly China is advancing while NASA languishes in private contract deals, falling further and further behind schedule, I think the best outcome would definitely be for the US to provide its intel to China so that they can actually get the results we all want or maybe even need. On the other hand, it would be necessary for China to open up about their processes and results, which they may be reluctant to do. It certainly feels like national/governmental priorities are holding back the scientific advancement of all humanity in this regard.
The US Space Force gets more money than NASA. That would be an interesting subject, if there is any information in the public domain.
This. I don’t think most Americans know this.
Literally a new made up Branch of the US military already has a bigger budget then NASA...damn thats sad.
Loved your video from the tv show Space Force
the USSR was the first to land rovers on Mars, but they were inoperable. so that would make China the third country to land rovers on Mars.
Come on. The Russian effort was satic and they have been going backwards ever since. The US landed rovers on Mars almost 30 years ago,
@@rogerphelps9939yup!30yrs later youass can't even bring back the astronauts from the space station
Lmao I love that you used the Space Pirate scene from Space Force 😂
People desperately need to underestimate china, at least it seems like it.
When are the books shipping? Ordered one for myself and one for my niece
"Red Moon" (2018 Orbit), by Kim Stanley Robinson, is a good novel that explores the politics of establishing bases on the moon.
The US budget for space includes profit for shareholders of various companies. China's efforts are operated by their government much more, eliminating so many middlemen. The actual product created by the US budget is not that much more than that of China.
Or the 2020 movie Space Force
Im awaiting the first space broadside.
Go China Go! Go China Go!
A Chinese restaurant for the aliens lol
Those aliens won't find it funny after all the humans has hatred towards each other they'd be disgust
Great video! Intriguing analysis. I hope we can become a unified team moving out into space and building a new place for us to live and thrive.
The show Space Force was hilarious.
We need to stop fighting over the small stuff and start to work together as humanity for the better of all no matter the country.
China has an orbital station, they could launch fuel tanks and assemble another vessel in 3-5 launches to get to mars without budgetary constraints.
Really? Cloud cuckoo land.
I have to update you guys. Chinese astronauts are called "Yuhangyuan" it means travellers of the universe. Taikonaut was the name given by the west.
Humanity should come before country
US should leave middle east along
Great work.
- For the humanity-based right to be able to grow weed without government violently stopping it.
You have my vote
Ok says the drug addict.
Imagine some Moonrock produced on the Moon 😂
yup, I am so glad I get to just walk into a dispensary and get what I need AND the state getd a ton of tax dollars! win win bro, win win ❤
@@fouchi3203Moon dust
For a country build on roboting and killing in the past and endless wars today. They deserve to lead the world forever? Jinkx
Omg Alex this video is so amazing!
Your content is ALWAYS phenomenal- but I REALLY love this one, it’s so interesting!!
Admittedly, my US-centric knowledge of other country’s space programs is very, VERY limited (even though I actively look up space developments, etc. and have a massive love of it!)
Continue being amazing, you can do it!
14:50 NO! The best outcome is absolutely NOT stopping the competition. The last time we focused everything on 'cooperation' in space, we did managed to get a single space station, but then we had nearly 20 years of utter industry stagnation likely driven by some amount of malice. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!
Getting to moon is 60s was just political stunt. It was so insanely expensive that had little future purpose. What it really did is spur technology on Earth. Now it's far cheaper. The real drive that will cause the drive is what they find on Mars and the Moon.
A lot of that has to do with the Cold War ending but it’s clear there is a new Cold War so I wouldn’t worry about lack of funds as much. We just need politicians to feel threatened again… any day now.
Competition results in accomplishments. Cooperation results in committees... Without competition, NASA has been sitting back on its laurels. It's nice to see a new contender to humanity's exploration of the universe.
@@Jake1702 competition is only needed because politicians do nlt value science unless they fear of missing out.
It is a flaw of the political system to need an incentive based on insecurity and fear.
Funding should be persistent regardless of competition and political landscape.
It’s not competition when the Chinese tech is just stolen from USA.
Long live the Terran Empire! I think the Enterprise series really puts the battle of political ideologies into perspective.
Misleading click bait. So what does China want on the moon? After the entire vid I still don't know the answer to that question.
But do we do space to win a race or to learn about it?
A dystopian nation becoming dominant in space development and colonization sounds equally frightening and unlikely. One factor in off world success is going to be willingness to sacrifice lives and environment. China has a big advantage there. However the need to decentralize skill and innovation for a frontier colony to succeed I just don't see.
The usa already is a dystopian nation so there would be no change there.
As someone who isn't American or Chinese, the thought of either of these nations becoming dominant in space colonization scares me equally.
So your argument is "Chinese people can't innovate?"
The US isn't a dystopian nation? 😂
@@Seeker7172 US has nothing on China. China chases the "shining path"
I would like to know more about this. As a US person we never hear about their space program, and they do a lot
There could be a big change one is trump two is elon both don't sit around and watch all other countries rocket by .
Thanks, Alex! 🌕
It is interesting to see the US choose to isolate itself while China proposed collaboration
China proposes collabs on almost everything, only to steal tech and info..
That's an overstatement. The US has a ton of collaborations with most of the world. It's a shame we aren't collaborating with China but the CCP repeatedly showed that it uses collaboration to steal technology to a level that very few other countries do so we refused to work with them. (I am aware that countries steal tech from each other all the time but China's industrial espionage was at a level that was really unprecedented in modern times)
We're seeing a new cold war forming between authoritarian governments and globalist/free trade countries and this space race is going to largely be between the two most powerful actors in both blocs.
I do wish that it were practical for the US and China to work together on space exploration. China has a surprisingly good space program. (Along with the Indians, another country I wish we were doing more collaboration with)
@@danheidel MAGA😁
Lol. That’s just Astrum’s spin on it. Which is weird, because it’s factually inaccurate. The U.S. collaborates scientifically with many nations, on earth, and in space. It just won’t be with China, because they’re thieves.
@@danheidel And they dont care and would do it every single time to our faces. Better to stop letting them steal everything and just put a china stamp on it like they always do. Which is why China will NEVER lead in space because they have to steal everything first and you cant be first if you rely on stealing the tech to keep up.
Well.done 👏🏻
Wait... the United States or NASA? There's a big difference.
Was thinking that. US gov isn't the only space player in the US anymore.
My thoughts exactly, SpaceX, Blue Origin, Sierra Space, NanoRacks, Axiom Space etc. etc. etc. China will never catch up with the American entrepreneurs!
Unless there is money to be made I doubt any American lunar endeavor will be done without NASA.
Thanks for making this informative video, it was fascinating. Extra thank you for making it as non political as possible, considering the climate surrounding it these days.
yheee, new astrum video
The China vs US space race means we're going to see some cool things in the coming years. But imagine how much faster and how much more epic those cool things would be if the US and China worked together as one to get humanity to the Stars.
Will China lead space exploration before they stop claiming developing country subsidies?
Are middle income countries still developing ? Your answer to this will lead to the answer you are finding.
If you actually look at the phrase "developing country", you'll probably find an easy-to-miss detail that it started with the word "developing". If the US is still growing as China does, then the US is also a "developing country".
What about space X
im not sure a budget comparison is a good metric to gauge future success - the US' spending on space projects is notoriously inneficient and vulnerable to political meddling. im sure we would be way farther ahead if the space budget was actually managed properly
China does have more corruption though, I think if we include private firms like SpaceX, America I believe to be more efficient. ESA probably will keep falling behind though :(
Very, very cool video! It was great learning about other space programs! Personally, I would like to see an international agreement that all operations outside of low Earth orbit to be considered as missions of humanity, rather than nationalistic.
It’s true if you are only considering NASA. However comercial space companies around the world are quickly becoming very powerful. Space X is in my opinion quickly becoming a leader in space development. Government ran programs have way too much waste, and lack of vision moving forward.
That's not the true picture though. Yes, SpaceX is becoming the biggest revenue generator, but they're not doing his to explore space. SpaceX is a corporation, needing more income than expenses to exist. So, they monetise low-orbit transports. That is big business today. For the really expensive bits, only state funded programs will work, as these are guaranteed to lose billions, or even a trillion, like the old space race. Without NASA SpaceX wouldn't have anything.
leader in exploding rockets and not even reaching orbit...😂😂
Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth
IRL
Won’t happen.
6:15 why hasn't anyone else ever tried this? 6:31 A big leap forwards! Even if the plants were short lived, they still budded which is an insane leap forwards in of itself.
7:58 ah that's why... what a bummer.
Absolutely love it, get it done china
This was great
What you said at the end is important to remember. NASA's findings are made public, CSA's are not. How much do they really want to share?
Completely untrustworthy. They will share nothing of value.
They are concerned about Americans stealing their tech.
China's space exploration has close cooperation with Europe and other countries. The rocket that launched not long ago carried Italian equipment, and there will be cooperation in the space station and other aspects in the future. Don't you check the facts and just talk nonsense?
Why the American would have to worry about the other country catching up?
Competition and co-operation are both key elements of biological evolution and are built into the human genome. In the same way, balance between democratic, often wasteful entrepreneurship and central economic co-ordination produce more effective progress overall. Having two major players with different approaches, funding and philosophies directed towards space exploration and extraterrestrial settlement is optimal. Thank you for expanding my knowledge of the Chinese programmes way beyond what I previously knew.
What would it take to stop competition and to start sharing research and building space projects together? One global space program. Could that bring about better results and faster progress? Just thinking out loud…😅
Humans fight just to fight. Crabs in a bucket, thats it
Excellent video!!!!!
Due respect to China's space program, the Chandrya team from India blew me away.
i've read detailed plans for the ILRS and it is very cohesive. despite the dividing lines on earth, we are planning great things in space.
Bill Nelson, NASA's Administrator, has publicly stated that he is worried that China will make territorial claims on the moon the same way they have in the South China Sea. China has stated that they accept the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which prohibits such claims, but this ignores they way that their terrestrial territorial claims have often violated international standards--just ask anybody from Tibet!
Yeah, the countries that the US has bombed, invaded, occupied, stolen land and resources, did regime changes, armed terrorists over 75 yrs are all laughing heartily at your international law and standards joke. I can show you the picture of US base on stolen land in different countries including mine.
They also said that about the antartic treaties that prohibit teritorial claims in the arctic but now they are tailoring them to help the PLA in through their research. Dont be suprised if we see military domes there soon.
American propaganda sure is effective
You mean like WE* made in the South China Sea?😂
You have never seen Tibetans or communicated with them, and you have not even been to Tibet. Why do you swear that Tibetans are not living well? Tibet is developing very well, the living standards of Tibetans have improved a lot, and Tibetans support China.
U.S politicians: complaint about china in space
also US politicians: refuses to get serious about space