Wonderful series .. Nice to see someone giving the ST the love it deserves ! Can I add my vote to showing installation & configuration for other OS please !
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I use mainly Linux (plus the occasional windows 10/11 when required ) so if I have only a single vote then I vote Linux ( Ubuntu )
I did finally get it working! Tried out some fun games on it. Including this new racing game that just released this week called "Faster". Very cool to see new stuff still being made by fans for the hardware.
Hi David, I'm following your videos and I really love them. I was an Atari STe user for many years though my setup was pretty basic: Atari STe 4mb with no HD neither access to new software such as Geneva or Neodesk. All I got in this regard was QuickST screen accelerator which in conjunction with the blitter made my STe quite snappy. Some years ago I experimented with MagiC and NVDI in emulators, and got nice results in general GUI speed, and that is why I found surprising the results I got in GemBench with your HDD image. As soon as I launched the display tests I noticed something was wrong, and when the final results showed I found that the "Gem Dialog Box" result was less than half the speed I use to obtaing with regular TOS and NVDI. Also the system GUI itself feels slow to me. 92% for your config, and 232% in my test. The same happened with the "Gem Window" test. I got 37% with yours and 163% with just TOS/MagicC and NVDI So is this behaviour expected? Does Geneva and Neodesk really impact so badly GEM performance? And...does it really worth the impact in ram usage and speed over the system general gui speed? Here's a screenshot of all my results: i.ibb.co/h7jTZ48/GEMBENCH.png Regards.
This is an great analysis. The short answer yo your question, is probably yes. It does affect performance to that degree. Have you watched this video I did where I analyse the performance? ua-cam.com/video/WLyK9nhnptA/v-deo.html My take away was the reduced performance was a worthy sacrifice for the benefits of multi tasking. In particular the open dialog and gem window rendering are down to fixed one time costs to me. The VDI graphics and text rendering are fairly close. I want to take a look at MagiC and see what it offers, but back in the day this was my daily driver. I also have an old PowerBook G4 lying around. Installing MagicC on that might just be awesome! A STacy for cheap :-)
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I just watched it, so Geneva seems the culprit. Maybe Jinnee is faster? I remember the problem I found with MagiC was that not many TOS software worked but it was impressively fast....
Make sure all other windows are closed when running the tests. After each dialogue box or window is closed, all the other windows are redrawn. That has a massive effect. Under single TOS, there are no other windows, desktops or programs so it will naturally be quicker.
That’s good to know. I’ve looked at the mister before. But prices were a little too high for me, especially during the supply chain meltdown. Perhaps I’ll give it another look later in the year.
MagiC, NVDI & Thing desktop was my daily driver up until I got my hands on a 486DX4. I'm trying to remember how all this stuff works in order to reinstate my old setup. Running ST's in Hatari in order to use the extended VDI resolutions/colours is fantastic! These videos are absolutely invaluable - thanks so much!
Glad you like them. If you reallyt want to go Bannanas on processor speed, resolutions and colours, give ARAnyM a look. Don't quiet know if it's for me, but it is capable of some insane desktops
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Been playing with ARAnyM since it was released & could not really get on with it, though I'm all for the project. I'm not used to Mint, XaAES, etc, but I still believe it's the only way forward. So much so, I've recently been playing with it again. Unless someone ports TOS to x86 or ARM, with drivers, I don't see any other options, other than finding a Hades & paying well over the odds regards its worth. Nevertheless, I think Hatari provides a fantastic environment for development, etc. Maybe ARAnyM could spawn a series? There are pre-rolled packages, sort of, like EasyARAMint - download the disk image & point ARAnyM at it...
Thanks for the image. I never had much luck getting Geneva to work so it was nice to give it a try. I'm a bit of a fan of co-op over pre-emptive multitasking (although I must say MagiC was excellent back in the day). Cheers!
As far as I know at the moment the PiStorm is an Amiga device. David (Sensible name, everyone should have it) over at BW's Technoshed is/was looking into getting this working on the ST. If you haven't watched it, watch his video on the pistorm and the ST:ua-cam.com/video/44shk0mjZcs/v-deo.html I keep looking at the exxos store to se if it is availbale. But not so far. If you look at it, it's hardly going to fit in the case :-) There are some devices available at the exxos shop that might allow me to stick in a 16Mhz MC68000 and that's what I'm thinking of doing. The booster board and the relocaror PCB migh allow it to fit. Here's a link to the shop for reference: www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/
Love your Atari Videos. I wish I had my STE running this well back in the mid 90's when I brought my Atari Dual Drive system to Uni with me. There is a program for DTP I love and wanted to access my own files via your HDD setup using Geneva and NVDI. It's Timeworks Desktop Publisher v2.0. Have you any experience with it and would you know how to get up up and running? It creates it's own fonts folder and uses GDOS - I'm just not sure how to get it to run using NVDI and Geneva.
I think I used Timeworks DTP at Uni too! If it has a "good" installer it should use the already installed version of GDOS (NVDI) if the fonts folder contains GDOS fonts and not bespoke ones then i'll link a video that explains how fonts are installed and configured. Let me know how you get on, are the install disks available online? ua-cam.com/video/-Q796PwbAvg/v-deo.html
Hi David , thanks you for your video , i search in your website the link with 512.img file but i can't find it. seems only for Falcon , please can you help me ? Thanks
Sorry about that, I took it down as the image was unified with the Falcon one. I'll Put it back up, but won't be able to do that until the weekend (I think) i'll reply again to this when I have done it.
That’s awesome! Thank you!
Your very welcome
Kingly gift my liege... thank you. The usage selection at boot is very useful.
Wonderful series ..
Nice to see someone giving the ST the love it deserves !
Can I add my vote to showing installation & configuration for other OS please !
Vote counted. Any preferences?
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I use mainly Linux (plus the occasional windows 10/11 when required ) so if I have only a single vote then I vote Linux ( Ubuntu )
MagiC, NVDI & Thing desktop was my daily driver for years. Worth a video, maybe?
I've been trying to get the Atari ST MiSTer core working, and for the life of me, it is a riddle wrapped up in an enigma!
I would love to buy a mister. Perhaps some day
I did finally get it working! Tried out some fun games on it. Including this new racing game that just released this week called "Faster". Very cool to see new stuff still being made by fans for the hardware.
Thank you David for the images and the wonderful videos :)
Glad you like them!
Hi David, I'm following your videos and I really love them. I was an Atari STe user for many years though my setup was pretty basic: Atari STe 4mb with no HD neither access to new software such as Geneva or Neodesk. All I got in this regard was QuickST screen accelerator which in conjunction with the blitter made my STe quite snappy. Some years ago I experimented with MagiC and NVDI in emulators, and got nice results in general GUI speed, and that is why I found surprising the results I got in GemBench with your HDD image.
As soon as I launched the display tests I noticed something was wrong, and when the final results showed I found that the "Gem Dialog Box" result was less than half the speed I use to obtaing with regular TOS and NVDI. Also the system GUI itself feels slow to me.
92% for your config, and 232% in my test.
The same happened with the "Gem Window" test. I got 37% with yours and 163% with just TOS/MagicC and NVDI
So is this behaviour expected? Does Geneva and Neodesk really impact so badly GEM performance?
And...does it really worth the impact in ram usage and speed over the system general gui speed?
Here's a screenshot of all my results: i.ibb.co/h7jTZ48/GEMBENCH.png
Regards.
This is an great analysis. The short answer yo your question, is probably yes. It does affect performance to that degree. Have you watched this video I did where I analyse the performance? ua-cam.com/video/WLyK9nhnptA/v-deo.html My take away was the reduced performance was a worthy sacrifice for the benefits of multi tasking. In particular the open dialog and gem window rendering are down to fixed one time costs to me. The VDI graphics and text rendering are fairly close.
I want to take a look at MagiC and see what it offers, but back in the day this was my daily driver. I also have an old PowerBook G4 lying around. Installing MagicC on that might just be awesome! A STacy for cheap :-)
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit I just watched it, so Geneva seems the culprit. Maybe Jinnee is faster?
I remember the problem I found with MagiC was that not many TOS software worked but it was impressively fast....
Yep. It’s trade offs all the way down.
Make sure all other windows are closed when running the tests. After each dialogue box or window is closed, all the other windows are redrawn. That has a massive effect. Under single TOS, there are no other windows, desktops or programs so it will naturally be quicker.
@@thetechnoshed They were closed.
This is Christmas in June! Thank you very much!
The hdd file works in the Atari ST core of a Mister FPGA. Just change the extension from img to vhd.
That’s good to know. I’ve looked at the mister before. But prices were a little too high for me, especially during the supply chain meltdown. Perhaps I’ll give it another look later in the year.
MagiC, NVDI & Thing desktop was my daily driver up until I got my hands on a 486DX4. I'm trying to remember how all this stuff works in order to reinstate my old setup. Running ST's in Hatari in order to use the extended VDI resolutions/colours is fantastic! These videos are absolutely invaluable - thanks so much!
Glad you like them. If you reallyt want to go Bannanas on processor speed, resolutions and colours, give ARAnyM a look. Don't quiet know if it's for me, but it is capable of some insane desktops
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Been playing with ARAnyM since it was released & could not really get on with it, though I'm all for the project. I'm not used to Mint, XaAES, etc, but I still believe it's the only way forward. So much so, I've recently been playing with it again. Unless someone ports TOS to x86 or ARM, with drivers, I don't see any other options, other than finding a Hades & paying well over the odds regards its worth. Nevertheless, I think Hatari provides a fantastic environment for development, etc. Maybe ARAnyM could spawn a series? There are pre-rolled packages, sort of, like EasyARAMint - download the disk image & point ARAnyM at it...
Thanks for the image. I never had much luck getting Geneva to work so it was nice to give it a try. I'm a bit of a fan of co-op over pre-emptive multitasking (although I must say MagiC was excellent back in the day). Cheers!
You’re very much welcome.
Have you thought about adding the PiStorm to your ST?
As far as I know at the moment the PiStorm is an Amiga device. David (Sensible name, everyone should have it) over at BW's Technoshed is/was looking into getting this working on the ST. If you haven't watched it, watch his video on the pistorm and the ST:ua-cam.com/video/44shk0mjZcs/v-deo.html
I keep looking at the exxos store to se if it is availbale. But not so far.
If you look at it, it's hardly going to fit in the case :-) There are some devices available at the exxos shop that might allow me to stick in a 16Mhz MC68000 and that's what I'm thinking of doing. The booster board and the relocaror PCB migh allow it to fit. Here's a link to the shop for reference: www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/
Love your Atari Videos. I wish I had my STE running this well back in the mid 90's when I brought my Atari Dual Drive system to Uni with me. There is a program for DTP I love and wanted to access my own files via your HDD setup using Geneva and NVDI. It's Timeworks Desktop Publisher v2.0. Have you any experience with it and would you know how to get up up and running? It creates it's own fonts folder and uses GDOS - I'm just not sure how to get it to run using NVDI and Geneva.
I think I used Timeworks DTP at Uni too!
If it has a "good" installer it should use the already installed version of GDOS (NVDI) if the fonts folder contains GDOS fonts and not bespoke ones then i'll link a video that explains how fonts are installed and configured.
Let me know how you get on, are the install disks available online?
ua-cam.com/video/-Q796PwbAvg/v-deo.html
Hi David , thanks you for your video , i search in your website the link with 512.img file but i can't find it. seems only for Falcon , please can you help me ? Thanks
Sorry about that, I took it down as the image was unified with the Falcon one. I'll Put it back up, but won't be able to do that until the weekend (I think) i'll reply again to this when I have done it.
Hi,did you have some time to release it ? Thanks 😅
I'm really sorry,@@bastien6107 It slipped my mind. It's there now. Please download it and let me know if it works for you.
@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit it works perfectly thanks you so much !