1970s French Face-Off: Peugeot 404 vs Renault 16 TX
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2018
- I've been in France a couple of days so now I am going to mix things up a little bit - two of the cars in this collection would have been rivals at the time of their release. The Peugeot 404 and Renault 16 were lower price alternatives to the Citroen DS as an executive car. But which one is best?
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Small rectifications: the first Peugeot designed by Pininfarina was the 403 launched in 1955. The 16 TX was launched in 1973, and was lot more powerful the the other 16 with 93hp. Excellent video!
Just for the information, the R16 tx had 96bhp a 1647cc engine, a top speed of 106 mph, torsion bar suspension and as described by a top motoring magazine the most comfortable seats of any car irrespective of price, seats also had a multitude configuration of positions including dropping down to make a very comfortable double bed, this hatchback was as mentioned the first of its type in the world, copied by nearly every car manufacturer it was year's ahead of its time, I know which one I chose, I have owned nearly every model and still own a 1974 16ts to this very day.
I had quite a few 404 saloons back in the late 1980s here in the US. I really enjoyed the balance of style, comfort, performance and economy. They are very rugged cars with great visibility, and were super fun to drive. The slant 4 lowers the hood line (bonnet) and give a great view of the roadway. Handling is superbe due to low center of gravity created by the slant engine plus a torque tube style worm-drive differential. The incredible shocks and struts which were made in-house at Peugeot and have a very refined valving for comfort and hard driving sportiness. I often came across cars with original struts and rear shocks because the build quality was so high. The rack and pinion steering has a smooth, light and tight feel that give great feedback to the road. Plus witht the MacPherson struts, the turning radius is super tight, unlike any US made car for the period. It was quite rare to have one let alone several of those cars here in the San Francisco bay area. But I'd love to have another one. The engines are very, very smooth too. One could barely hear them run at idle. With a hemispherical combustion arrangement and cross-flow head the engine performs very well for having a single barrel Solex carburettor. Part of the efficiency is due to the head's internal plenum design for the fuel intake. The fuel goes through a short, single throated manifold which is regulated by the coolant system. The head has a rather wide layout because of the internally routed intake pathway. Journals cast into the head function as an intake manifold so the fuel is always the same temperature as the engine. Anyhow, loved those cars.
A magnific, comprehensive and intelligent comment.
The 404, featuring a sun-roof, indirect electronic ignition (whatever that means), a low ground-clarence was truly a great car.
An older friend, who acctually raced a Ford GT 40, Fórmula III and briefly Fórmula I , owned a 404 Factory-modified.
He was the CEO of a large Peugeot Dealership.
Although a very safe driver -- never had an accident, racing or going to the movies -- ridding with him was a fantastic adventure.
We never felt unsafe and yet the Magic Carpet flew through the air feeling tight and noiseless -- except for the discret roaring engine.
Unfortunately, He passed away recently -- In Memmory of C.G., to his Wife and Children my most heartfelt condolences.
Very nice comment, a rarity on UA-cam !
Peugeot
Auto Legende
404
504
Up til the end of the 70s, Pugs were bought by loads of cockies (farmers to non-Oz residents) who didn't want a typical Holden, Ford or Chrysler, mainly because they had such a great ride on corrugated gravel roads. My farmer uncle had a 404 just like the one road tested - and it was like a Benz to ride in compared with the XB Falcon my grand-dad had.
Always loved the 16.. I think the shape stands up really well today, it must have looked incredible in the mid 60's
Yes a mate of mine his dad had a 16 Gtx in purple with dark tinted green glass and a black vinyl roof an absolute beauty back in the day
The 404 also got quite a reputation as an endurance rally car, which put Peugeot on the map in Africa .
Good test thanks since 1977 I have had peugoet 403 lots of surfing trips in the 403.Then had 3 Renault 12tl then 18Gts a 25v6 a peugoet 309Sr these days I drive a 2003 peugoet 406v6 love it joy to drive. Cheers from New Zealand 🤗
My dad had a 404 as a company car in the 70s and still says it was the best ride he's ever experienced, and he's been in a lot of cars.
My pops also had 404 as company cars in the 70's.Had the sedan and the station wagon. And mother had a 404 GL..which had the floor shift....lovely cars to drive..i learnt to drive on the stationwgon.
In Zimbabwe the Peugeot 404 & 504 wagons were mighty. Serving as taxis into the 2000s. The 404 with an 1800cc & 4 speed column shift. Nothing could stop those cars. Lions on the road
As a teenager I used to drive down to Spain with my parents every year. I used to love the journey through France and always remember how the the DS and 404 would dominate the road and compete with each other. Things often got hairy on those long straight route nationals but it felt like an exciting time to be alive. Other cars in France seemed interesting to me as well such as the Simcas and Panhards, as they were quirky and unconventional. My dad had a Cortina 1600E and later an NSU RO80 and it was great to drive for hours at stretch at high speed watching all the drama on the French roads. Cars had character back then because they were designed by people rather than computers.
Peugeot were faced with a hughe problem when the DS series was launched in 1955, much to everybody's surprise the 404 was to become a legendary success, it approached the comfortable ride of the DS but it was much more practical in the maintenance section, the 404's success was its rugged construction, the prop shaft is installed in a tube not exposed to the elements this and the long suspension travel made it the first car to beat the camel as a form of transport in the Sahara desert.
For the Renault R16, Renault wanted to penetrate this market for years, their last attempt had been the Fregate, which was a sort of Dauphine blown out of proportion.
When Renault experienced the sudden and unexpected success of the Renault 4, they decided to give industrial designer Phillippe Charbonneaux a pile of paper to draw a new car for the Regie and Yves Georges was the chief engineer responsible to develop the all new engine and gearbox, remember the R16 is the first car to have an electric cooling fan.
Although both are totally different, the 404 being a conservative car, the R16 is at least as revolutionary as the Citroen DS was at the time, I mean almost each and every car manufacturer has copied the hatchback bodystyle of the Renault R16.
The 404 also came in a Diesel version, a car capable of doing a staggering 135 km/h in those days !
I had both of them a 404 for even more then 20 years, and if you have a really good example of either of these you will be surpirsed of how well these cars still drive and how capable they still are.
Working in Zimbabwe on 404s. Only issue with the propshaft inside the top tube was the splines in the prop wire out over time.maybe coz of overloading. Then issue with the rack & pinion steering bushes wearing out. I have to say the engines are indestructible. You can patch up parts innumerable times. From worn timing chain covers to crankshaft bushes & gear linkage levers. I love those cars
I do believe some 404’s had mechanical fuel injection too.
My father bought a 404 Saloon in 1973. He wanted a good Tow car for the caravan, and it was, with high torque at low revs, exactly what you want for towing. The all-round independent suspension was very high-end in the UK at the time, where leaf springs were the norm, and it had double door rubbers, making quite quiet. He took it off the road after the the RHS front McPherson Strut seized up, and it became my first car, after I passed my test. I regret selling it. Would love to have one now with an electric motor mated to that beautiful gear box!
I remember holidays where the vinal seats were so HOT in the sun you couldn't sit on them, so we put towels down first. They were soaked in sweat when you got out!
Happy days! :-)
had 3 404's myself ... 1975 , 1973 and a 1969. Best part was it's steering and suspension travel. even in it's base form it was rally ready. Miss them a lot. Driving a DS4 these days.
We owned one of each and loved them both, but the 16 was more fun to drive and really ate up the freeway miles in comfort.
Thank you so much Jay! Brilliant idea to road test cars from the past - especially in their country
of origin! (used to love France!)
On Peugeot column changes never grip the knob Just use the flat of your hand and it all works nice and easy. My dad wrote off his 404 in 1966. The seat belt saved him and the car was actually quite strong. They lasted in Africa and won two East African Safari Rallies. We had four 404s in all in the family. I'd love one today for summer use only. Their only fault is the speed they rust. I worked at A Renault garage polishing R16s when I was a 17 year old schoolboy. The TX was a latecomer and didn't sell that many. I liked the R16 but preferred the 404 as a drivers car as it's handling was far better. The 404 is the poor man's Mercedes-Benz, and in some respects it was a nicer car to drive than any Merc. It is one of THE great cars of the 1960s.
I owned both a 16 and a 404 so your video hits home. Both are great cars in their own way. The 16 is a more modern car and has a more comfortable ride. The 404 is a more rugged car and easier to work on. The Renault's engine would rev easier and higher. It had a bit more pep than the Peugeot. it also got a bit better fuel economy. Styling wise the 404 is traditional and has a a bit of flair with the tail wings. The R16 is more avant guard. Both cars are very practical. the Back seats are easy to remove in the 16 and it can haul a whole lot of crap. I remember having at college and it would fit all of my belongings for a whole year. In the end you're right I think that I'd take the 404 one the R16 because the Pinin Farina styling is timeless. The head light placement and grill remind me of a Ferrari 330 GT FROM THE 1960s.
Loved both these cars my dad had a 16 TS which I drove a lot and loved it. The 404 , well my French girlfriend's father had one in pale blue.
Ah, the memories! Keep up your great videos, I really feel I'm in the car on our adventures!
I owned a 404 as a student in the early 90s. Everyone gave me stick about it, but when we went skiing, I'd just stick it in first, keep my foot gently on the accelerator and let those 15in wheels roll over. As we climbed the mountain we'd pass the 80s Ford Lasers and Toyota Corrollas who, even with chains, would have slipped off the side of the road. I'd park outside the Alpine club hut, we'd get the best bunks and we'd be enjoying a hot cup of tea or something a little heavier while we waited for the rest to straggle in after their 2-5km road walk their packs on. Funnily enough, those people didn't give me stick afterwards!
If you didn't push it too hard, It'd cruise at 55-60mph fine. Lovely smooth and comfortable ride. You could drive for 6 hours without stopping in it, get out and feel fresh. Unlike my new BMWs...when you get out after 2 hours and feel like your ankle is broken.
Great review. Happy the 404 is your favorite. I own a rally style 404 from '74 with a 2.0 l engine fitted. For every day use and spent my holiday on the south coast of England in it last summer. Great car.
Id have the Peugeot 404.. I owned a 504 and loved it so i might be biased
Dana Vixen - I had a very brief drive in a 504 once. Really nice to drive, but I found the pedals a bit close. I have got big feet.
Always liked the looks of the 504.
I still own a 504 wagon..needs some work tho
I’ve had 4 Peugeots: 2 403s, a 404 and a 504 diesel w/ 4 on the floor.
I do love a French automobile. Fond memories of a Renault 9 on a pitch black night rainy night on the M6 back in ‘93. The joy of finally getting it up to 70 mph and then the utter terror when the lights totally cut out. MERDE!
Renault 9 is far more advanced than 404 OR 16.. expect only problems
My first car! Passed on to me and used it until the MOT ran out! My biggest memory was the incredibly heavy steering but it seemed cool because it was rather “uncool”! Great film!
I just spent 8 days in france on the way to Spain, I'll be spending a week in the Loire valley, (tours), for a week on our way back. I do love France. I do always worry where all the people go. In the towns and villages, you never see anyone after about 9am. And thy like a pint or two before work.
Loved the video, really enjoy seeing these old cars being driven. The styling of the interiors are superb
I agree with you. Love the 16 but the 404 is just more conventional
Loved the video. On a point of correction, though... the 403 was the first Peugeot that was designed by Pininfarina (in the 1950s).... also a very durable and solid car.
Aussie comment as as well.
First car was a '56 Pug 203, second was a '72 16TS and my third was a '75 Pug 504. All great comfortable cars for long trips. My wife had a 12 Wagon when I had the 504 and it was only ok.
The 504 was in burnt orange and had factory Dunlop Alloy wheels and looked great. Only problem was it did not have enough power to run air con, so bought a '80 Alfetta with air con. Luckily this was a rare reliable one and did not have an ounce of trouble over 6 years. Other than having a gear selector that feel like you were stirring porridge rather than shifting gears it was a great riding and handling car. ( Had Koni adjustable shocks fitted ).
This video brought back great memories from my '20s.
I've just found your channel James and I have to say I'm liking it. For two reasons, firstly I'm a petrolhead which obviously helps and most importantly I love your production values on the channel. Your career history has clearly been brought to the fore and your presenter style is engaging. My channel can learn a lot from you so thank you and keep up the good work,
Thanks, you've got a big back catalogue to work through!
JayEmm on Cars on and off UA-cam over a long time. Life sometimes gets in the way eh!
Use of gearstick. Use the palm - the gears essentially change themselves. Move into neutral and it finds the gate - ready to change to next gear. Easy once you get used to it
Love it - please do more classic cars. Also if possible would love a comparison 4c vs elise
My dad had a 16 TS which was lovely, I often drove it and still one of my favourites great engine, ride and the seats were so comfortable. Great review as always! The Lotus Europa used the Renault engine too. The Peugeot 404 was an excellent car too both classics.
Nice film, thanks for sharing the inimitable roadside scene of small-town France. The 16 wins for me on gallic charm, innovation and style. ( That green really suits the period). The 404 is nicely classic car territory , but pininfarina did this shape for many carmakers. Can see several British classics, only distinguished by lights and trim. The very definition of wearing light make-up. Still shocked to discover that R16 was designed and released in the 1960s where the Peugeot might have been drawn in the 50s and kept on ice.
my late father had a 16 ts a 16 tl both great cars a magic carpet ride and punchy engines for the day the best column gear shift of any car .
Peugeot was the king especially in Africa and middle east the super Luxe model was very comfortable and super reliable.
Great stuff by the way. Worth the watch.
Love French cars of this era. Great review, cheers.
My Dad had a 16TL, and said it was the best family car he ever had. Though they rolled, they had loads of grip. He told a story of losing a police car late one night, so you could hustle one, and he was very handy behind the wheel, my old man.
I had a R16 TS in the early 80s. Supremely comfortable, quirky (windscreen washer was a pedal next to the clutch!) and fun. The torsion beam suspension made it roll like a ship and it understeered with very little provocation - steering by throttle. It had a bit of oomph due to its twin choke Webber carb. Replacing the spark plugs was a challenge, especially the back one that was under the bulkhead. Haynes manual instructions for any job was "first remove the spare wheel and support" because the spare wheel was stored in the engine compartment. Thanks for bringing back some great memories!
A pleasure to watch your video, please do more old cars. Best regards my friend. Thierry (Qc, Canada).
Lots more old cars coming very soon!
My first car was a rusty '71 Peugeot 404. I worked on my school holidays to have a backyard mechanic take the dust out and repaint it.. Loved that car even with it's issues. One of the best engines around with it's replaceable liners. The bodies rusted very easily thought
Great video Jay. A trip down memory lane for me. I did my apprenticeship in a Renault dealer in Kent back in 1980. R16's were still around albeit needed a fair bit of welding and torsion bar replacements.Clutch replacement tended to require the front of the car coming off. Which was pretty normal for Renault's back then. I can remember my first engine out. Where a couple of tennis balls rolled across the workshop floor. it was a common tactic to wedge tennis balls between the bulkhead and timing cover, in an attempt to quieten noisy cam chains.
Yep, the death knell for nearly every 16 was the rear torsion bar bearing mounts rotting out and detaching themselves from the car. My 16 had a reprieve and my father and I repaired it with new sills.
thank you james another brillliant testdrive taking me back to my childhood with the Renault my dad sold many of them but the Peugeot is ace it looks like a type 3 vw or abit like an Oxford Cambridge MERCI BOUCOUP tres tres jolie Monsieur from Merseyside
Great cars, I love them both! Thank you/
My father owned 3 R16's. TL,TS & TX in the 70's & 80's. His business involved trade shows in Europe & the business car the partner's Cortina mk3 1.6L. Driving to Frankfurt, Marseilles or Milan in the Ford was hell on wheels. When they started using his R16, the long drives became easier & quicker.
Hi!^^ So well presented.. I am a Renault 16 Addict in all aspect .... best regards
I love how you tried to drive easy cars first, then move to more difficult to drive ones. And have found that the order you chose was inverted :p
Wait for the next one!
I enjoyed it a lot, and I will show it to my dad who had both models.
The renault 3 and 4 is probably the first fwd hatchback by a couple years.
The setup is pretty similar, longitudinal fwd with transaxle gearbox and the asymmetrical wheelbase rear suspension, but it is much smaller and cheaper, it didn't have column mounted shifter but it is in the middle of the dash, I suspect you would love to drive that.
I remember seeing my first 404 on holiday in France in the late sixties, aged about 10 (me, that is). I told my dad it looked incredibly like an Austin Cambridge and he told me both were designed by Pininfarina. The resemblance really is uncanny and both would have been bought by very similar customers I'm sure. The 404 was also very popular in Africa due to its superb reliability and urged simplicity. As for the R16, that is one of my Gallic favourites. Shares with the Austin Maxi the ability to convert its seating to a double bed but there the similarity ends. The R16 is a far, far nicer car with genuine design flair; the Maxi is staid in comparison, albeit a competent workhorse. A friend had A R16 at uni and I was very impressed with it, particularly the ride quality, something pretty well every French car excels in. And its positively Tardis like inside. Love this French series of videos. Thank you. Grahame
Glad you're enjoying - thanks for watching!
Pininfarina also used pretty much the same design for the Lancia Flaminia Berlina. Easy money!
Thanks for a so good video.
I'am the owner of two Renault 16
TL 72 and TX 77
It's always a plaisir to run with.
putain tu es peut etre le premier francais qui parle anglais.
I thought I read JayEmm's Summer Vacations !!!!!
Enjoyed the video! Would like to point out that the 1647cc engine in a 16TX is over 90bhp - the TL had the 70 bhp one.
4:55 Yeah, he got the hp wrong for the tx.
I am sure I made other mistakes
I don't think it was just road quality but Frenchness. They were just more oriented to comfort, so tons of wheel travel and soft springs and soft seats. The early Japanese cars had hardly any wheel travel at all and uncomfortable seats, but they were precisely built and didn't fall apart so won out in the marketplace. Current Citroens have come up with hydraulic (not with a pump) bump stops so initial springing can be softer.
The Renault engine/trans layout was traditional, going back to Cords and the Citroen Traction Avant.
j'en ai acheté deux une tx 1979 et tl 1974 Je ne peux pas oublier ces jours avec cette voiture incroyable
These are more my kind of motors. The old 404 and Renault 16s were sadly not preserved enough over the years, at least in Blighty.
Having been in the motor trade for some 50 years I had a good
number of both of these cars . I think Renault, in trying to update the 16 spoilt it with the tx.The original tl with its mock wood dash and soft vinyl seats just felt right and I still feel is one of the best cars of its time . I was trying to sell new Maxis against it ,quite a difficult task. Richard
There was another dashboard starting in 1970 with a lot of gray that wasn't as nice as the original one with the fake wood, so three I think. Probably had some practical improvements (or not) over the original.
My father bought a new 16TX in 1979, I absolutely loved the car, electric windows, central locking and the rest. Those square headlights looked great.
Great sunny sommer afternoon video 👍. Keep em coming 😀
Re 3:33-I believe the honor of first 5-door hatchback actually goes to the Citroën 11 Commericale back in 1938, with honorable mention to the 1949 Kaiser Traveler…
Also, in those days, while US manual shifters were largely on the column, a 4- or 5-speed manual was unheard of in anything but a sports car, and most of those were "on the floor," as we called them. In fact, I don't think I ever saw a 5-speed transmission until the '70s.
I had a R16 TX with the 5-speed column which I believe was only available on the TX top of the range model. The later model R16s (with the different rear lights) really should be measured up against the Peugeot 504, not 404. I did over a period of time have the use of an early (69 or 70 I think) 504 Familiale with column shift, but I believe that was only a 4-speed.
the 16 looks to be from a different century than the 404 IMO, although I am biased as my dad owns a dark green 16 TX, which is absolutely brilliant.
I owned 3 or 4 R-16's back in the 1980's. I also repaired a few for other owners out here in the San Francisco bay area. I loved them! So cool to see a comparison of it to the 404. My buddy Rob had 404's (even a cabriolet model). We compared them a bunch. Torsion bar vs McPhearson strutt suspension. The R-16 did have a very smooth ride. The reviewer is right about the world's first 5-door hatchback. It wasn't VW who invented it with the Rabbit or Golf. Nope! It was the R-16. But it did have a lot of body roll however, and major understeer. Also a note about the advanced engine. My understanding is that it is the same engine aluminum block four-cylinder that is found in the Lotus Europa. A light-weight yet powerful motor. The bulk of the engine including the cylinder head is cast aluminum. But. It had what they call “cans” for the pistons to move up and down in. They had to use steel cylinder sleeves because Aluminum cylinders is would have worn out too quickly. I rebuilt two or three of these engines so I can tell you from experience it’s a pretty crazy design. Steel cans sit inside the aluminum block. Well, steel and aluminum have different expansion coefficients meaning that they expand and contract and behave differently at different temperatures. To try to keep the cans cool and try to control the engine expansion, this water-based cooling circulates throughout the engine, right up against the sleeves. If the engine got a little bit too hot from being in a hot environment let’s say or from working too hard, the head would warp, The head gasket would fail and then oil and water in the engine with mix. Coolant water would get in the combustion chamber with the gasoline and end up being instantly vaporized and shot out of the exhaust pipe. Now your beloved Renault 16 was suddenly producing con-trails like an drunken airplane skywriter. Kind of embarrassing on the freeway. Or around town for that matter. You could not just take it all apart, clean it out, get a new head gasket then put it back together. Oh no. You needed new seals (upper and lower) for the cans, you had to have the head milled to be totally flat. You needed a good reliable torque wrench and put this whole thing back together like a Dagwood sandwich. Then you and pray that it does not overheat again. night sis replace the head gasket and fruit.have to have it machine and put the whole thing back together again.
Getting back to the comparison of the two cars, the 404 had much tighter and controlled steering, minimal body roll, but not at the expense of a cushy ride. That was the genius of Peugeot. Forty years later I can still remember the unique feel of driving that car. Luxurious, like nothing else. It floated over potholes. And it had fins!
I should add that I acquired, for free, a Peugeot 403 (think Peter Falk's car in the TV series Columbo) abandoned on the street outside of my apartment when I was in college in Philadelphia in 1974. I tracked down the car's owner who had returned to his native country of Ethiopia, and he very kindly sent me a letter conveying ownership. It was my introduction to Peugeots. I learned from rehabilitating that car that you have to have some pretty wacky tools that are specialty items from time to time to keep these babies rolling. In general, the 404 was a big advance over the 403 in my opinion. More modern in every way.
Jay, what mic are you using the sound is good.
And old Sennheiser radio mic setup
Thanks very much for the response. By the way I drive an Elise S2 Rover Type 72
Totally true!!!, as U prefer the 404, i've one in Cuba from 1974 made in Argentina the best car forever with a robustness and unmatched smoothness in the ride...
My dad had both. A Renault 16TS as his personal vehicle which was replaced by his first Peugeot 404 company car. The Peugeot was auto with a 1800 engine (around 1975). The Peugeot went all over Southern Africa. Virtually indestructible....although my dad went back to buying Renault once he retired....
Born in 1975 Dad used to chuck us on to the backseat with mom, then drive us 1098 kilometres from Port Nolloth to Johannesburg. Still have the picks of Dad with his huge smile behind the wheel of his maroon 404. Grandpa had a Citroen GS Club with hydraulic suspension. Later we had the Renault 5 and also one similar to this video. Ican not recall the model and still browsing. French cars used to be great in South Africa back in the day. They left after numerous sanctions were imposed on South Africa. Late 90's they returned. How times have changed. Now the French cars have no chance competing with the likes of Toyota and Volkswagen. But still icons of their time.
The 404 wasn't the first Peugeot Pininfarina designed, it was its predecessor, the 403. The 403 was launched in 1955, the same year as the Citroen DS, and its design was... very muted. That's why Peugeot decided to hurry up the development and launch of the 404, which was launched just 5 years after the 403.
There was a fuel injected version of the 404 (Kugelfischer fuel injection), whose power rose from 72 to 85hp. That one did come with a rev counter as standard. ;)
Peugeot 404 was a robust vehicle hardly any problems unike the Renault 16.Peugeot 404 was the most favourite /top selling vehicle in Africa and Asia.
One could argue that the Renault 16 wasn't the first hatchback car as the Citroen Traction Avant Commerciale had been in production since 1938, and gained a one piece hatchback in 1954.
I'm glad that you pointed out the differing wheelbases on the 16. Fifty years ago, in Winnipeg, I bought a 16. Manitoba had just put a government automobile insurance program . It was still in its shakedown cruise. Rates were set by wheelbase. I noted that the cut off point between two rates was exactly half way between the two wheelbases of the 16. The company took the longer wheelbase. I protested, and after arguing with a couple of flunkies I got them to accept the shorter wheelbase. I've owned over 90 cars, and the 16 is one of the best. Another favorite is the much maligned Chrysler PT Cruiser. One reason I like it is that it's design almost duplicates the 16.
Love em both in different ways ... real real nice..
Love the bonnet on the 16... always radically designed.
Love the 16 always have ..looks wise it just looks so right 😎
It is a striking thing for sure
I had to make the same decision last year - and I chose the 404 as well, which I'm very confident with 👍 But I am sure the R16 would have made me happy too!
My first car was a Renault 16. Absolutely loved it for its looks, comfort, ride quality, practicality and sheer Frenchness. Yes, it would lean on corners a bit, but it was very safe and stuck to the road like glue. Don't confuse leaning on corners with roadholding ability, like some of the comments.
I had a '71 R16, the last year they were sold in the USA. Unfortunately, mine was spoiled by a rudimentary (3 speed if I recall) column shift automatic transmission that sapped all joy from the drive. I suspect my opinion of the car would have been much improved had I obtained a manual. The lightness of an R16 is a stunning contrast to the mass of later cars. The interior was a marvel of utility as you mentioned. We spent many nights camped in it. However, the car suffered terribly by comparison to its replacement, a 2002 which may also colored my memories as the 2002 was everything the R16 wasn't as regards pleasure to drive. Owning an old French car, much like owning a classic Lotus, is an act of faith in the USA where service and parts are far more difficult to come by. As are the cars themselves. I should add that while I never had a 404, I later acquired an '85 Peugeot 505 Turbo as well as an '85 505 wagon (estate to you!). The estate was a rock and highly reliable. The Turbo, not so much.
You ought to do TV work, very good. I always thought the renault was an elegant looking car in the 70s
Thank you nice video! Greetings from Pretoria South Africa 19 June 2021 GMT 12:14
well the 404 is the car I got my driving lessons in , loved the gear shift on the wheel and how smooth the suspension is but yes for sure the Renault design stands out more as expermental for those days
404 has prove as a great diesel engine. Even Mercedes conformed that
Chris Cross No Diesel engine is great! They all sound awful.
@@AlexEssex8
That's not the point.
Mercedes was producing great diesels long before Peugeot.
French taxis, delivery services at the time preferred the 404, private citizenry the R16. Mechanics also preferred the 404 for ease of maintenance and repair. So to tell the truth, opinions are split and the debates are still ongoing about these cars 60 years later.
Older Australians pretty much all learned how to drive in a Holden or Ford with a "three on the tree" transmission. "Four on the floor" was considered rather exotic back then.
Great , intelligent video.
The 16 was an extremely comfy car.
Featuring a front-wheel drive system was very safe in rainy or snowy days.
Growing up, I was familiar with both cars.
The Peugeot, by Farina is still very elegant, also featuring a great suspension -- highly comfy, as most french cars.
The 16, was not an elegant looking car -- although the front was very handsome.
In sum, both were fabulous cars. Pushing 50, they move and dance like teen-agers.
Fifty years from now, a 2022 Bimmer or any modern, fancy car won't be able to run.
A car made in the 40s, 50s, 60s, or 70s is very easy to fix -- good-luck, if someone is brave and rich enough to try to fix a modern car, fifty years from now.
With all the electronics, the computers, even the electronically controlled transmission, head-lights, etc, etc, nothing will Work.
How will that influence the value of a modern supercar in the near future?
We had a 16TS when I was learning to drive and loved it, I drove it through a blizzard running on three cylinders and misfiring on one of those while still on L plates having to keep the revs up so it wouldn't stall and leave the family stranded in the middle of nowhere, just turned out to be a bit of damp in the plug caps. Several years earlier we had a science assignment to draw a diagram of a car cooling system, of course I presented mine based on the 16 and got marked down because it used a sealed system with expansion bottle which was not what was expected. I took the manual into school to demand my marks be changed and was told I was still wrong because it was not how most cars worked. My dad replaced it with a Dolomite and while much newer was technically behind the 16 in many ways.
Well you were right in the end - they are all sealed now and with electric fans too - you definitely deserve your score upping!
Always fancied R16, ended up with Cortina mk3 in Daytona yellow.
Earlier 16's didn't have modern seatbelts or a five speed trans. They had shoulder belts, but no inertial reels and a four speed or three speed automatic (which generally did not last long).
The Peugeot style of the 404, was a winning combination, the 404, had won so many rallies, plus it was a strong car for the time being, I know it had a heater, & sunroof, but I wonder if in later 404s,did they offer A/C, I just love the styling of the 404, it kind of reminds me of the 50s to 60s Chevrolet,Cadillac, and others that had tailfins and if you compare it to a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air, Nomad or 210, it had the same steering mounted shifter, maybe you could explain to me why is it that the 404, sedan, only had three lugnuts,while the station wagon,and some other models, had five.
James, I think you missed a Lotus affiliation there! The Renault 16 gave us the First mid engine Lotus with the Europa. I remember my first drive in a 16 (just a few years ago) and once I got where the gears were it was like any modern car (but a lot softer )
We did have a look at the Europa but perhaps it will feature next year!
I think we also need a review on the R12,14 and 18!
Those are very dull cars, believe me.
Always loved French cars
Jay Emm, as a day 1ish subscriber. I have a question for your good self (and or Lori). If I buy a cheap Mk1 Octavia VRS (yes the semi quick 1.8 turbo), would you like to review it? I will drive it to you and you can drive it as hard as you like. Let me know as I need an excuse to pull the trigger? Failing that, you can drive the mk1 mx5 (import) I have already
Haha yeah sure we will, a friend of ours has a cheapo Cat D 1.8 VRS he is selling which is awesome
JayEmm on Cars amazing, I should be able to win round the mrs and will be in touch. What is your view on the mk1 VRS out of interest? A thinking mans golf? You're welcome to my MX5 mk1 as I am conscious one hasn't made your channel yet....
Can we have more of these?
Great cars!
just seen this top marks bro
My late Dad had a 16 ts then a tx the 1647cc engine was around 90 bhp
I like your'e comments and thinking , but I remember when I drove it , It's a whole another thing when you own it , and rev it ! That,s when you feel the soul of the Renault , not in the Peugeot , that was the old mans car , but the Renault TS and TX was , and still is in my heart 🥰 the only thing that separate the TS , and TX was the gearbox , the double headlights and the wing at the roof 🤣 but God I wanted the TX , because it did not sale in Sweden 🥶🥺 but for the time , this was a killer , if you din't mind the rolling in the corners , it did stay steady , I know 😂🤣🥰👍
Thank you. My first car in high school was used '71 R-16 in 1980. Bit of an odd duck here in USA as not many made to our shores. Loved it!
Very good
Beg to differ, but the R16TX was 90bhp (from 1647cc) and superseded the R16TS (approx 88bhp from 1565cc). My dad had 4 R16s between 1970 and 1983, so I grew up knowing them inside out. Incomparably comfortable relative to anything else on the market at the time (apart from the DS, of course - but the DS was really a different class).
thx a lot ,, i really love the Peugeot 404
my 404 sleeps in Garage .. 404 ESTATE 1970 with only 16000Km - 1.9 diesel
Hello, could be for sale?