One thing that I'm glad you touched on is that relying on these safety products doesn't mean that you can relax on the road and reduce defensive riding tactics to avoid motor traffic. You are absolutely correct that you still need to be vigilant about motor traffic and respect it. There are a lot of distracted drivers out there. Thanks for the video and Happy Holidays to you both and your viewers. Thanks.
I too believe Hi Vis is not the best way to be seen. I am convinced my Garmin Radar light is the best thing going to be seen from behind.... BUT I also think the secret sauce is using a light that has a "random" flashing pattern.... random is the key because it attracts the brain to look at it because it is not predictable and instinctively the brain is attracted to what is "wrong" or what is "missing" causing the driver to instinctively pay it more attention.
The steady light in unlit areas are so you yourself can see where you are going. Running a two lights. A steady beam and also a flashing light like a Lezyne Zecto 250 for instance allows drivers to see you and judge your distance. Above all its important that any lights you have are slightly angled down at the road to prevent blinding on coming road users. A lot of cyclists Ive seen dont do this.
Day-glo, reflective anklets have a motion that attracts driver eyes. They work really well at night. Not a substitute for bright flashing lights. Steady lights fade into background lights. Based on personal experience, my voice was a major safety feature. I use my voice and hand signals to communicate with drivers, politely and friendly. The most important kit I had was a helmet mounted 360 degree video camera.
I like the point of the location of the light mattering. Not regarding motorized traffic but on narrow two way bicycle lanes. Happened to me a couple of times in poorly lit spots that I had to "guess" where the opposing bike's handlebars are ending and if I'd actually safely pass them. The handlebar's likely the widest part of your bike, yet in darkness most setups don't give others any clue about your "outline", that's where reflective strips on the wrists can really help imo. For turn signs too. Would be interesting to know if rear lights on the end of your rack (further behind) make others keep more distance compared to using a light close to your saddle.
I bike, and therefore am more likely to notice bright colored gear when I'm driving. I think that gear that is both bright AND reflective are more noticeable than just neon colors alone. Movement does have an effect as well. One night I saw what I thought were cat eyes crossing the street, and slowed down, looking for the cat. It turned out someone dressed all in black was crossing the street. They did have a small strip of reflective fabric on their shoes. That is the only part of the person I saw. Good thing for them that I like cats!
My mind went to reflective gear in addition to high vis color. I've noticed athletes out on the roads at night because of the refletive tape on the shirt, jacket, or vest while I couldn't even tell you the color after I passed them. Be safe out there!
I rode miles and miles for years. Sadly, I have not been able to do so since my heart attack. I also ride a Harley. This is not about being 'visible', or other road users 'seeing' you. This is about the human brain. Let's talk about threats to us (let's not also forget wildlife). Cars, vans, SUVs, trucks, semis. Anything bigger and faster than us. Biker versus 80,000 lb vehicle, and biker gets squashed like a bug, with minimal or no damage to the big rig, or at least nothing that a power wash wouldn't remove. ALL studies show that drivers do not look for riders, pedestrians or bikers. Statistics show they don't look for other vehicles either. Eye movement studies show that drivers look for gaps in traffic when changing lanes or turning. Heck, even when staying in a lane, they are driving distracted, intoxicated, or simply white zoned out, and will simply run us over if we happen to be in the way. Where I live, this is called SMIDSY. 'Sorry mate, I didn't see you.' The eyes see you (maybe), but the brain processes that and ignores you, removes you from the image. Legislation, road rules, dash cams, loud horns, rev bombs, shouting, mirror smashes, high viz, flashing lights (heck you could be a flashing Christmas tree) ... none of these is going to fix that. WE are accountable for our own safety and lives. It is up to us to avoid them. You could well have the right of way, but that is no use to you or your loved ones when you get hit by them, and you will. We have to observe what is going on around us and act to preserve ourselves. Make sure we have an 'escape route', use our brakes, swerve, whatever. They are sitting warm and cozy in their metal cage, tinted windows, sound proofed, stereo sound systems, driver assist, air bag equipped. Not a care in the world.
Anything works better than black clothing with no lights--at night. I believe there was a study done that explained drivers see cyclists with helmets and other safety gear as pylons instead of human beings and drive less safely when they're near. EDIT: Multiple studies actually. A dehumanization study was published in the journal called Transportation Research Part F: Traffic Psychology and Behaviour. That study found that around thirty percent of study participants found cyclists as less than fully human, especially when they were wearing helmets or safety vests, with drivers showing more aggressive behaviour toward them. I guess the moral of the story then is to ditch your helmet and lights and you'll stay alive?
I do feel safer wearing high vis on my morning commute, however that doesn't mean I am not paying attention to what is happening around me. I think it is a judgement call and there are a lot of factors to consider.
I don't have any hi-vis gear but I do like to wear black/white COW PRINT leggings and long sleeve rash guard. I wear it for pure silliness but I've had drivers catch up and tell me they saw me from hundreds of feet away because of the contrasty pattern, and they appreciated it because the proliferation of unsafe and invisible ebikers here has put them on edge. It simply stood out against the background environment. I also run tail and headlamp in the daytime and in addition to that, at night I have LED strips in both wheels as well as wrapped around the frame. I won't discount the effectiveness of hi-vis gear BUT I'd question the "hi-vis" made for cyclists. If you're going to do hi-vis it should be what the DOT contractors are wearing for doing roadworks as it is designed to meet criteria established by scientific laboratories.
Flashing rear tail lights do more to alert motorists to your presence on the road than anything else. You're safer wearing black w/flashing tail lights than wearing hi-viz w/o lights. If drivers can't see you, you're more at risk and it's YOUR (the cyclist's) fault for that increased risk.
Agree 100%. Dawn and dusk are the most unsafe times to bike so I set my lights brightest at inconsistent flashing both front and back. Every car sees me. I've even had several cars slow down beside me and let me know they first thought the lights were emergency related. I've never worn high viZ
Hey All; US resident, lifelong biker, LOTS of accidents, 12+. I rely on f/r lights primarily, mostly in poor ambient light, usually the best/strongest I can buy, rechargeable. Many mfrs now getting very creative with LEDS. Never wore hi-vis, since I can't keep it clean. And every driver who has hit me has said the same, 'I didn't see you.' I believe they are not looking or expecting a biker. Again, I believe my best chances are with lights. All my accidents were in daylight, in good weather, with the exception of one in rain. Bill O', Middletown, CT, USA
You say "this is not the end all", which I don't think anyone is saying. By saying that, you seem to be implying that hivis has no benefit, which is also not true. It has some benefit in certain lighting conditions. So... your point, if there is one?
One thing that I'm glad you touched on is that relying on these safety products doesn't mean that you can relax on the road and reduce defensive riding tactics to avoid motor traffic. You are absolutely correct that you still need to be vigilant about motor traffic and respect it. There are a lot of distracted drivers out there. Thanks for the video and Happy Holidays to you both and your viewers. Thanks.
Thank you and happy holidays to you as well!
Full attention is always required. Maybe until Elon comes up with something
I too believe Hi Vis is not the best way to be seen. I am convinced my Garmin Radar light is the best thing going to be seen from behind.... BUT I also think the secret sauce is using a light that has a "random" flashing pattern.... random is the key because it attracts the brain to look at it because it is not predictable and instinctively the brain is attracted to what is "wrong" or what is "missing" causing the driver to instinctively pay it more attention.
I agree, inconsistent flashing always attracs everyones attention
Great point about the Garmin Radar - super product. Thanks!
I'm all for hi-vis clothing/lights but recognize that if vehicle drivers have their face planted in a cell phone, they won't see you.
Very sad and very true. Be safe out there everyone!
You should try to bike in red high heels and long blonde wig. That is truly high vis.
What kind of cleats do you use in the high heels? 🤣
In the UK you are allowed flashing lights, but are recommended to have a steady front light in the dark in areas without street lights.
Thanks for letting everyone here in the state know!
The steady light in unlit areas are so you yourself can see where you are going. Running a two lights. A steady beam and also a flashing light like a Lezyne Zecto 250 for instance allows drivers to see you and judge your distance. Above all its important that any lights you have are slightly angled down at the road to prevent blinding on coming road users. A lot of cyclists Ive seen dont do this.
@@Rose.Of.Hizaki Great suggestions!
Day-glo, reflective anklets have a motion that attracts driver eyes. They work really well at night. Not a substitute for bright flashing lights. Steady lights fade into background lights. Based on personal experience, my voice was a major safety feature. I use my voice and hand signals to communicate with drivers, politely and friendly. The most important kit I had was a helmet mounted 360 degree video camera.
I think that that is what the research is leading us to understand. Thanks a bunch!
I like the point of the location of the light mattering. Not regarding motorized traffic but on narrow two way bicycle lanes. Happened to me a couple of times in poorly lit spots that I had to "guess" where the opposing bike's handlebars are ending and if I'd actually safely pass them.
The handlebar's likely the widest part of your bike, yet in darkness most setups don't give others any clue about your "outline", that's where reflective strips on the wrists can really help imo. For turn signs too. Would be interesting to know if rear lights on the end of your rack (further behind) make others keep more distance compared to using a light close to your saddle.
Great point concerning the handlebars.
I bike, and therefore am more likely to notice bright colored gear when I'm driving. I think that gear that is both bright AND reflective are more noticeable than just neon colors alone. Movement does have an effect as well. One night I saw what I thought were cat eyes crossing the street, and slowed down, looking for the cat. It turned out someone dressed all in black was crossing the street. They did have a small strip of reflective fabric on their shoes. That is the only part of the person I saw. Good thing for them that I like cats!
I think that is exactly what the research (not marketing) is telling us. There is certainly room for more study here! Thanks!
My mind went to reflective gear in addition to high vis color. I've noticed athletes out on the roads at night because of the refletive tape on the shirt, jacket, or vest while I couldn't even tell you the color after I passed them. Be safe out there!
I rode miles and miles for years. Sadly, I have not been able to do so since my heart attack. I also ride a Harley. This is not about being 'visible', or other road users 'seeing' you. This is about the human brain. Let's talk about threats to us (let's not also forget wildlife). Cars, vans, SUVs, trucks, semis. Anything bigger and faster than us. Biker versus 80,000 lb vehicle, and biker gets squashed like a bug, with minimal or no damage to the big rig, or at least nothing that a power wash wouldn't remove. ALL studies show that drivers do not look for riders, pedestrians or bikers. Statistics show they don't look for other vehicles either. Eye movement studies show that drivers look for gaps in traffic when changing lanes or turning. Heck, even when staying in a lane, they are driving distracted, intoxicated, or simply white zoned out, and will simply run us over if we happen to be in the way. Where I live, this is called SMIDSY. 'Sorry mate, I didn't see you.' The eyes see you (maybe), but the brain processes that and ignores you, removes you from the image. Legislation, road rules, dash cams, loud horns, rev bombs, shouting, mirror smashes, high viz, flashing lights (heck you could be a flashing Christmas tree) ... none of these is going to fix that.
WE are accountable for our own safety and lives. It is up to us to avoid them. You could well have the right of way, but that is no use to you or your loved ones when you get hit by them, and you will. We have to observe what is going on around us and act to preserve ourselves. Make sure we have an 'escape route', use our brakes, swerve, whatever.
They are sitting warm and cozy in their metal cage, tinted windows, sound proofed, stereo sound systems, driver assist, air bag equipped. Not a care in the world.
So true!
Anything works better than black clothing with no lights--at night. I believe there was a study done that explained drivers see cyclists with helmets and other safety gear as pylons instead of human beings and drive less safely when they're near.
EDIT: Multiple studies actually. A dehumanization study was published in the journal called Transportation Research Part F: Traffic Psychology and Behaviour. That study found that around thirty percent of study participants found cyclists as less than fully human, especially when they were wearing helmets or safety vests, with drivers showing more aggressive behaviour toward them. I guess the moral of the story then is to ditch your helmet and lights and you'll stay alive?
Thanks for the research, it's really important to think about this!
I do feel safer wearing high vis on my morning commute, however that doesn't mean I am not paying attention to what is happening around me. I think it is a judgement call and there are a lot of factors to consider.
Good thing to be aware of your surroundings.
I don't have any hi-vis gear but I do like to wear black/white COW PRINT leggings and long sleeve rash guard. I wear it for pure silliness but I've had drivers catch up and tell me they saw me from hundreds of feet away because of the contrasty pattern, and they appreciated it because the proliferation of unsafe and invisible ebikers here has put them on edge. It simply stood out against the background environment. I also run tail and headlamp in the daytime and in addition to that, at night I have LED strips in both wheels as well as wrapped around the frame.
I won't discount the effectiveness of hi-vis gear BUT I'd question the "hi-vis" made for cyclists. If you're going to do hi-vis it should be what the DOT contractors are wearing for doing roadworks as it is designed to meet criteria established by scientific laboratories.
Awesome idea with the cow print! You should think about trying the Bovine classic if gravel is your jam! Thanks for sharing.
I ride county roads where I live. High viz windbreaker and flashing lights. I think most people will change lanes to avoid me but they have to see me.
Sounds like you're doing everything you can to stay safe. Have a great New Year!
Flashing rear tail lights do more to alert motorists to your presence on the road than anything else. You're safer wearing black w/flashing tail lights than wearing hi-viz w/o lights. If drivers can't see you, you're more at risk and it's YOUR (the cyclist's) fault for that increased risk.
Agree 100%. Dawn and dusk are the most unsafe times to bike so I set my lights brightest at inconsistent flashing both front and back. Every car sees me. I've even had several cars slow down beside me and let me know they first thought the lights were emergency related.
I've never worn high viZ
Those dusk and dawn times of the day are tough. Especially if you're a commuter. Great comments!
Hey All; US resident, lifelong biker, LOTS of accidents, 12+. I rely on f/r lights primarily, mostly in poor ambient light, usually the best/strongest I can buy, rechargeable. Many mfrs now getting very creative with LEDS. Never wore hi-vis, since I can't keep it clean. And every driver who has hit me has said the same, 'I didn't see you.' I believe they are not looking or expecting a biker. Again, I believe my best chances are with lights. All my accidents were in daylight, in good weather, with the exception of one in rain. Bill O', Middletown, CT, USA
Thanks Bill! It seems that this is what the research implies!
You say "this is not the end all", which I don't think anyone is saying. By saying that, you seem to be implying that hivis has no benefit, which is also not true. It has some benefit in certain lighting conditions. So... your point, if there is one?
Totally agree with you. Hi vis seems to have an effect but not to the extent that the manufacturer would have you believe. Thanks!
I doubt the laws against flashing lights are evidence based.
I think that is what our friend from the UK is referencing.
Hey John!! Just had my RP on 10/30...wanna ride...would like to chat if you can. Thanks