Accuphase C3850 clone class A Pre Amp Kit. Evaluation and Test.
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- I build, test and chat about this clone kit Pre Amp based on the Accuphase C3850. Is it easy to build, will I like it's sound?
Note the NE5534s supplied with this kit are fakes.
Thank you for sharing the very detailed and technical review . Keep the musical passion going !
In Microcap this schematics looks very good. Without the op amp(!) with a gain of 9.5dB (x3) it gives -100dB@1kHz and -95dB@20kHz of THD with +-35V. This really impresses. Besides the harmonics looks good (declining), phase shift is almost zero, and a bandwidth is also good (but not an exceptional like with the op amp). I set 11dB negative feedback, and this did not rise high order harmonics. ZTX550/BC547 BJs were used for the simulation. Easily drives 600 Ohms.
Thanks that you've shared this, Sir.
Always good when the theory backs up what the bench shows and the ears hear. Much appreciated. Did the tests really use +/- 35 volts? sounds abit high.
@@MichaelBeeny Only the latest pair works under 30V collector-emitter. For the rest of them it's 10-20V. As this is an emitter follower, so it can be any fast, high voltage transistor (or few in parallel), I think. I did not calculate a thermal load yet. I'll make a correction later maybe. The schematics you saw was a very blur. So, I used resistors with an idea of increasing current from stage to stage. 1: 5mA, 2: 8mA, 3: 12mA, and then two followers with 6.5mA and 13mA.
Sure, I have to check datasheets yet to select the current with a minimal noise figures.
+-15V for example, increase harmonics by 5dB for 1kHz, and by 20dB for 20kHz. This is a lot.
More experienced engineers say that Microcap results are true at 95%.
Once I read about an idea of a high voltage affecting a sound, and from time to time I saw a confirmation of this. Pass 1.7 for example, works well starting from +-42V.
Any way, I've never seen such low numbers in a BJ discrete schematics without an op amp.
@@MichaelBeeny I've checked out the thermal load. All transistors except the latest follower are going to heated up by 30-40 deg C, the follower - 90-180 deg C. So, it must be replaced with bd139/140 or similar in case of using 35 volts and high currents. I've also simulated the last two stages individually. The first of them is not sensitive to a current and voltage (only noise figures are different), but the latest is. It's about -112dB for 14V and -130dB of THD for 28V with 10k load. A current from 6 to 20mA does not make a big difference, but to be able to drive 600 ohms load, this current is set to 15-25mA.
@@sc0or Hello, the last pair would be the one closest to the OP-amp or the ones closest to the power supply? would the power supply voltage regulator support 35V? Thank you
@@criss7430 Unfortunately, I didn't find this project on my ssd anymore. There is another one heavily redesigned. I can speculate that ZXT was used "close to power supply" (because of its 1A collector current). But I'm not sure, cause the schematic was redesigned to a preamp without a high current output. Even more: I gave up tuning symmetrical schematics (like this). This is always a matter of a luck. "Classical" things like long tails or cascodes are way more simple to tune up.
I like this guy...
It sounds like you have a interesting history in audio and electronics I would love to hear your back story etc
Maybe, not sure how many people would be interested however. I'm flattered that at least you are. I appreciate your input and viewing of my channel. Mike
@@MichaelBeeny i am ! 😉
The power supply seems to be STUDER 900 circuit which significantly contributes to the very low level noise.
As no one else seems to have pointed it out. At 2:45 the transistor in the second row from the left, second from the bottom, seems to have a dry joint on the middle pin.
I found an issue on the board, hole not punched properly. I had to drill it out that's why it looks like that. I used the smallest drill I had. It is soldered at the back of the board OK and it does work very well, in use every day since. Well spotted however. Soldering always looks bad on a large screen but at the time I've only got eyes!
Hi! I've purchased the same preamp but assembled in case. I like how it sounds. But I would like to recommend you to replace fake electrolytic caps Elna and Rubycon in power supply and feedback loop because they give some sharpness at high frequency and synthetics indeed.
Hi Michael, thanks for your videos. Last year after watching your videos I build my own L12-2 amp. Sounds very good precise, requires good quality sources, and now I would like to add to it preamplifier. Now I am using only potentiometer. Is it worth adding preamp? How this preamp pair with l12-2 in terms of sound.
Hi Yura, I'm actually using this preamp as part of my set up with the L12/2. I just needed a bit more gain on some inputs. If you have enough gain already you don't really need a pre amp. The little 5534 simple board will give you gain and no added colour. Cheap enough to try. Let me know what you decide to do. Regards,
Mike
Nice video! Nice setup, combined with the LS12! What speakers are you using? I'm hoping on the final version of the JAT501 from JohnAudioTech YT channel. They will fit in the monoblocks I have laying around.
It will be interesting to hear the JAT501. John has not really made any comment to how it sounds. My loudspeakers are the Monitor Audio Silver 500. I've thinking of doing a review and a look inside video, what do you think? I've been thinking about this for ages but I'm getting very lazy these days!!
@@MichaelBeeny Nice speakers! Review would be nice, couldn't find one now. But only the higher end shops over here sell them, so... :-) I have been concentrating my efforts on speaker DIY, a project that will have to go on forever, it seems.
The JAT501 has nice specs, and it would be a perfect fit electrically and size wise. Can't wait to compare its sound to my current Arcam amp.
Hi Michael. I enjoy all the videos you post. Especially the amp builds. I've got a Cambridge Audio A100 power amp with twin toroidal transformers. The power amps don't seem like they can be repaired so I now have a case with a pair of transformers. So am looking for replacement amp boards. Your video's are giving me.some inspiration
Hi Chris. Nothing to do with your post but many years ago I was a teat engineer with Cambridge Audio with the P40/50/100 series. Sadly I know nothing of the later A series.. Well, the power supply is a great start to any project. Good luck, let us know what you decide to do.
@@MichaelBeeny I may be wrong bit I thought the A series predated the P series. It's a set the C100 pre amp which has been repaired and the A100 power Amp. But good to know.
@@ChrisE1965 The P series was without doubt the first series. I was working for Cambridge Consultant at the time and I became the first person to go on to Cambridge Audio as, at the time I was the only person on test.
I think the ownership changed hands a number of time after I left. Even Clive Sinclair got his grubby hands on it briefly.
Hi Michael. I really appreciate your knowledge and your channel. I'd like to build this preamp, did you use the Chinese parts and where can i get the schematic and BOM?
I used the kit as supplied from China and the tests were based on that kit. As for a circuit diagram, good luck with getting that lol
Always enjoy your videos.
Caught up on this coz I'm looking for a preamp... Most of the DIY chinese amps are essentially a power amp with a pot.
Do you still have the mbl6010 preamp? How would you rate this against the mbl?
This c3850 design reminds me of my marantz cdp. It uses a couple of jrc2114 but the output is buffered by their own discrete hdam module. And I believe marantz use different hdam designs to tune their audio products.... Think it's still found in their newest cdp
That preamp has long gone, sold in fact. I have so many amps and preamps kicking about. Most sound fine, apart from the valve pre amp, which I did not like, no detail mostly. At present I'm using the C3850 and I do like it. Tomorrow this might change as new stuff comes in. I still thing the little 5532 board is the best value on the market and has a very natural sound. It just looks silly in a big box! I also like the IC made of discrete components. It measures extreamly well, best square waves I have ever seen.
If I may jump in, the real MBL 6010 and this accuphase are all signal direct without go through capacitor. However, the 6010 mentioned 3 years ago, has an input WIMA capacitor, which basically detreate the sound. Other 6010 ebay kit do not have this input capacitor.
And one more point, real 6010 is almost at the top of audiophile favorite, that says something.
Note the NE5534s supplied with this kit are fakes.
Hi Michael, I enjoy watching your video. Do you think the ten transistors over there are authentic?
@@sgbb To be honest, I don't know. No real way to test them. I think the answer is probably yes. They are not an expensive device so probably not worth making fakes.
@@MichaelBeeny I have this board and I enjoy the sound out of it, I replace the 100p capacitor with a better quality one and it sounds even better.
How do you find out those 5534 are fake? Is it worth the effort to swap out all parts, everything to be authentic? Is it easy to identify the exact replacement to get from the supplied parts? Or is there some sort of part list to reference to? Just curious, thx.
@@ec1675 I have a video here that explains how to test these Ne5532/4 ua-cam.com/video/Junk1WG0K8g/v-deo.html
Hi Mr Beeny thanks a lot for disclosing kindly this great experience with us I have a question
From a your previous video i have realized how good the ne5532 is My guess is that the single 5534 performs the same
In your opinion what the 10 bjts do for improving the performance of the 5534 ?
Said in another way could a preamp based only in the opamp achieve similar performances at the test bench?
Thanks again and best wishes gino
I think the main answer to this question is abit like the placebo effect! The 5532 is very deceiving, it looks so small and un interesting until you note it contains about 30 transistors. So hardly a simple circuit, can you imagine a PCB preamp with 30 discreet transistors on it per channel? The 5534 is basically half a 5532. Some say it's better because the channels are 100% apart. Personally I don't think it make any difference at all. I still think the less active parts in a preamp is best. I'm not sure what extra you get from more stages, unless more gain is required.
Thank you for a charming and thoughtful review. Much appreciated!
Your kind words are also much appreciated. (not sure about the charming however!!)
@@MichaelBeeny I guess that might stem from the UK accent and dry humor. 8) It's not all that common a vibe on youtube. The genteel quality is good for such material I think. At my age it's dangerous to get too excited! lol A nice, calm presentation is what's required.
thank you for this, and very useful video, so it seem actually be possible to build a real high end amplifer for pretty little money, without even soldering by yourself it seems, amazing.
This was a kit but often they can be purchased ready built. You do really need a little electronic experience for the power supply and connections. It's true you can get similar products if you do the work. Imagine the over heads of your own factory, staff, cars, dealer mark up. You can see why premade stuff costs so much.
An interesting piece of kit Michael. Would it have enough gain to use with a moving magnet cartridge and turntable?
Hi Andrew, sorry to say no. A mag cartridge needs RIAA correction. It's normally a completely separate pre, preamp. It tends to have a input of about 2mV at 47k impedance an output of around 200mV, with RIAA EQ of course. This would then feed into this or other preamps. A Mag preamp probably has more effect on sound than any other part of the chain. It needs good sensitivity, very low noise, good tracking of the RIAA curve. Good input overload. Preferably a very sharp frequency cut off at 30hZ to remove rubble from the disc and turntable. All in all, better to use a FLAC audio file, will sound 100% better.
A bit late by now, but I swear I spotted a transistor leg that wasn't soldered on the channel you said wasn't working.
It's easy to see, yes
Whenever I make a video about any product I only film about 20% of the tests I make. Swapping ICs, transistors and modifying the circuits. If it's worthwhile I will show the results. The effect of such tests is the PCB suffers somewhat. Transistors in and out of the board. You are seeing such results. Not pretty but it gets results. I seldom keep these boards after testing. I did point out in the video that I did make an error on assembly, a transistor wrong way round. Clearly that was sorted as you have seen the working board.
Thank you for yet another very good video
While I know your fav opamp is still the 5532/5534, have you considered trying some jfet input opamps such as opa2604 (old n common) or something newer such as a few of the opa16**?
I must say I've not found any amplifier with FETs to my liking. Don't get me wrong, they are not dreadful by any stretch of the imagination, but they tend to be bright but without any HF lift. Firstly, they sound very detailed but grow fatiguing after a while. Not sure why, they measure well.
@@MichaelBeeny OK, I guess they didn't work for you.
I'm more a jfet opamp kind of person. Perhaps coz I listen mostly at low to moderate level so the extra details aren't that in the face.
@@MichaelBeenyhi michael bende cin tedarikçisi akliam dan lc5 dual ayrik op ampleri kullanıyorum ve su ana kadar onlarca jfet-bi polar op amp denedim be bu çin ayrik op ampleri pişince 100 sast kadar mükemmel ses veriyorlar muses02 gibi cipleri bile ezip geçti,denemeni siddetle tavsiye ediyorum,mono ve dual 2 tipte sadece guvenilor satici akliamda var kendi üretimleri sadece sonic imagery 944 enh ile kiyaslama sansim olmadi muhtemelen ona yenilebilir👍
hey Michael, I would like to ask you about the opamp. I have no education in electronics, I can only listen to gear and judge it by ear. My experience is that all these opamps measure fantastic but they do not sound very good. My experience is that discreed circuits in general sound a lot better. Would you call my opinion peak stupidity or do you understand where I am coming from?
The way I judge any pre amp, chip or discreet is, dose it add anything but gain? If it does it's no good!! It cannot make an amplifier sound better, if it does, it's adding colour. If you find the colour makes the sound better to your ears, that's personal choice, no one can argue with that. As I said before, a preamp should just add gain, if it adds more of something it's not a true HiFi product. So far in my tests almost every preamp that measures better, sounds better IE adds nothing but gain.
@@MichaelBeenypeki dostum o halde kaynaktan gelen sesi amfiye gümüş tellerle iletmek sinyal kaybı olmamasi icin tek çare görünüyor yaniliyormuyum? Pre amp in ek kazancina ihtiyacim yok zaten pro klark tecnik dn3600 analog equlaiser kullaniyorum ihtiyactan fazla kazanç verebiliyor,kaliteli mikrofon kablolari sipariş verdim tek xlr uca ayni anda 3 kablo baglayacagim😊 umarim kaynaktan gelen sinyal çok daha az kaybolur,ve eski jvc ax 335 amfide pre amp kismindaki kapasitorleri wima ile degistirmek kalıyor geriye 😊
@@tayfunali In the real world a short run of a meter or so will make zero difference. Any reasonable cable will be just perfect. No need whatsoever to use silver cables. You cannot measure any difference, and you cannot hear any difference. I might suggest you will get more colour in your sound from your graphic box than from any cables.
As you say, it looks like you have more than enough gain. I would expect it would have a low impedance output anyway.
How are the three inputs at the rear wired up behind the three yellow rectangular packages top right of the board. ???
Really interesting video thanks so much for your time and effort to create this content.
Thank you for the kind words, I'm very pleased you found it useful. Good preamp, I still use it every day.
Where did you buy this kit?
And why don't you use thes preanp in your 100 Watt amplyfiers?
I found the video by clikking on your chanel and on Videos and scroll down,so it is easy to find.
Greetings and thanks from Denmark in the other end of the world!
Hi Michael, Type in the video title on EBay, lots of options will pop up. I have built this preamp into a stand alone box and use it often. I'm not sure it's any better than the basic 5532 which I use in my the L15 integrated amplifier, but my L12/2 is driven externally with the C3850. The kit includes fake 5534s. Works OK but better to get a real 5535.
Hello again, Michael. Would you be able to comment on the voltage setting (output) of the regulator? Would 20v be too much and the would it affect the performance?
Are you talking about changing the regulators? If so don't! The dual rail 15 volts is near perfect. 20 volts could damage the chips.
@@MichaelBeeny Hope you had a good weekend.
Many thanks for prompt response. My board had LM337- 317 so I could adjust the V going in and I was taking about how high I could take it - you have answered it well.
Also, wanted to drop a note of thanks on this preamp recommendation - it is indeed very good and more rounded - even over the Pass BA3 for me. Appreciate your work.
@@AD-wk2hh Stick to the 15 volts, it's the sweat spot for the ic's.
Hi, I have a few questions about connecting the potentiometer to the board. I have an Alps stereo and I wonder if it connects to both inputs. Thanks for the info Jirka Czech
I'm not completely sure I understand the question but I hope this answers it.The pot has two sections on it. One for each channel. Treat each section as two separate pots. One terminal goes to the input socket, the centre pin goes to the amplifier input, the last pin goes to earth/ground. The other section of the pot goes to the other channel and is wired the same.
Reading the answer am I correct L-R-G connection at front (between opamps) and L-R-G (next to relays) are all connected to relevant pins on the volume pot.
Many thanks for the videos.
These "audiophile brander capacitors" are usually nowhere near their rating. Very low ESR might mean their capacity is also very low.
So which one of all chinese preamplifier do you consider better this one or the MBL6010? Or something else
At present Tony, I keep coming back to the C3850. In fact I still use this every day driving the L12/2 amplifier. Nice combo. One day I might find better but not sure what can be better than one that has almost no noise, no change to the sound, just gain. How do make any preamp better?
@@MichaelBeenykapasitorleri high grade olanlarla değiştirmek ve kendi ayrik op amp ini imal etmek devrede bakir yerine saf gümüş kullanmak 😊
@@tayfunali In my latest videos on this topic I have shown that replacing the kit components with more expensive parts made no measurable or audible difference. As for silver cables?? Bit of snake oil here, I think.
Not sure, but looks like the op amp on the right side might have a pin bent under the IC, not inserted in the socket as it should be.
Must be an optical illusion, William. As everything is still working well today. Saying that, at the time of filming, many ICs were swapped in and out countless times. The video only shows a fraction of tests and experiments I carried out at the time.
Hello Michael, between this and 6010 which preamp you recommend? Thanks in advance.
The C3850 is probably the better of the two. Viewer response would tend to agree.
@@MichaelBeeny thanks and appreciate.
I like this accuphase c3850 circuit its good fore a nice set i runn 2 monoblocks from advance paris the bx2
End this as pre amp with a ring transformer 60w 18v
Runs like a charm! If you have a set thats not gread att high sounds its even better if you like 2 have a smoot warm sounding pra this is maby not the pre amp that you like
Hi Michael, I have just bought this kit after reading your excellent video. Can you tell me what is the value for the potentiometer to install for the volume purpose. Is it 50K stereo log as usual ? What is the yellow component marked 10P and looked like a resistor. It it really a capacitor of 10pF ? Thank you and take care of you
I tend to use 50K pots for volume control. Seams to work well with most inputs. Yes that 10p is a cap. Thanks for watching.
@@MichaelBeeny Thank you for your answer and your kindness.
@@didieralayrac2937end ar you good with it?
Looking forward a few years. Using a 20/25K pot does improve the already excellent frequency response. Probably not worth changing but on a new build, yes. The effect is well outside the audible range but does measure better at 50% rotation.
Is it just me or did you miss a soldier point on a transistor? Left channel, right row of transistors 4th one down, center pin. It looks to be unsoldered. Or perhaps the solder didn't come through to the front of the board...
Yep, I do believe I see it also.
hi michael , how are you getting on with your FY99xx function generator ?? i'm thinking of buying the same one for my self !!
Hi Gary, It does work well, but my main gripe is the small display. It needs to be quite close to be able to see the display text. Annoyingly so. After power down it does not remember last settings, again really annoying. No good for using as a low distortion generator. The wave form looks good but far to high as a signal source for measuring distortion in amplifiers. Response is nice and flat however. I am going to replace the scroll knob with one you can get hold off with a serrated edge, the horrible plastic one drives me nuts. Otherwise it's good. Let me know if you buy or find a better unit.
@@MichaelBeeny
thanks for sharing your experience with it. if i find a better one i'll let you know. (been checking eevblog reviews/tests). thanks for the vid's
Great! Best wishes! 👍🍀
Michael the 5532 is a class A/B opamp so this amplifier can not be class A. Yes, it can have a class A stage but the input is not.
Well, it is "sort of", "technically", class A because the way it is set up the pull up and pull down transistors never completely shut off during normal operations. If it were class AB or class B one or the other of them would shut off at times during a waveform. In this case however, as long as you do not drive it into clipping both transistor elements are on all the time to some extent or another. So- "class A".
This is the PCB makers terminology not ours; they do tend to use colorful terminology. It is kinda correct.
@@MichaelBeeny Michael thank you for your reply. I have listened to this amp on my system and it sounds very good.
As far as A vs A/B the opamp is definitely an A/B amp. If you look at the data sheet you'll see it has two power rails a +/- 5 volt minimums on each rail for the positive and negative signal portions of the output wave. I would say this opamp shuts off at the crossover point.
With that said most of these opamps, even the cheap ones, are so well designed that there is very little distortion through the wave transition as was very common on tube amps and the first transistor amps decades ago. Unfortunately this gave A/B a bad rap which I don't believe it deserves today. So this little amp does have an A/B proponent, as measurements show there are no notch problems. (At 1nS horizontal resolution there is no visible notch)
I will be doing more testing but I just measured the gain at 14 db. There is a slight square wave overshoot that gradually returns and the FFT shows a 60 db down spike at ~11.7kHz although this might be noise on the bench as the amp is not in a proper enclosure.
There are so many of these amps being sold that the one I bought (August 2024) might simply have components switched out or in compared to other sellers of the same amp but I think this is basically what most people can expect.
@Michael Beeny --- FYI this video is now missing from your "videos" section on your front page.
Hi Gary, I think you may have an issue your end. It all looks fine here. I will keep an eye open just to be sure but thanks for bringing it to my attention You tube does do odd things from time to time.
Great content - subscribed!
настоящее чудо
Op amp ic will ruin the sound quality they are trying to achieve with so many transistors! What's the point of so many transistors when the sound goes through a cheap op amp ic.?
I am not saying that an op amp ic. are not good but it is wrong to use them this way!
Where can I buy this kit in the USA?
EBay, lots of sellers. Either built or kit versions. Just look for C3850. I do give the seller on the video that I purchased from.
Dear friend
As it is a class A preamp, is it good for a class AB power amplifier. Please confirm.
Hi Harsh, this preamp makes a big deal of being class A but in the real world almost all pre amps will operate in class A So no problem.
@@MichaelBeeny
And vice versa ??
I have built one of these and they do sound good. But for some reason my EL37 tube amp will go into oscillation at higher volume lvls. I don't think it's the gain as I have a few other pre-amps I have built with higher gain that do not effect my EL37 amp. But anyway I didn't push mine to the 400K lvls but it was flat well above 100K just like yours so it seems to be a very stable bit of kit.
Might be worth messing with the earths between the pre amp and the power amp. The EL37 might be abit of a high impedance. A shunt resister to lower that impedance might help. I have tried this with 3 different amplifiers so far with no problems but not with any valve amps.
@@MichaelBeeny I had thought about it being an issue with the impedance of the EL37 too as it's the only amp I have had that problem. Thanks for the idea!!
I If I would like to see you built your pre M with this I'm building one also I will rip it off of ya🎉😂
Iv bild it by now end i cane tel you i really like it some tims its little harch bud thats realy not a thing i dislike its amazingly beautiful sounding end that fore just 39€ im going tho make it better by some good capacitors
Can you send me link to buy This pcb please. Tks
You can see the supplier I used 18 seconds into the video.
how does it sound??
I still use the preamp from time to time, overall, it's quite natural but can sound a little hard at times.
@@MichaelBeeny Thank you . Do you suggest to buy?
What do you expect with this design and materials? Devine sound?
@@brankozivkovic6555 I can't really answer that question, it's not perfect, but nothing is. Can sound a little hard at times. I use it from time to time when I need extra gain but overall, I find my L12/2 has enough gain without a preamp. Less is always better. It's not a lot of money, fun to build but your choice.
@@MichaelBeeny I would try to reduce gain changing Rs around OPA if can help.
Hello! What is the gain?
It's been a while since tested but from memory about x 10. IE 100mV in 1 volt out.
@@MichaelBeeny Thanks. And what is the max output voltage can be? Can 10V give or will THD be high?
It is extremely funny the piracy name of these Chinese kits.
Accuphase 3850 costs 35000 euros.
But this is not the problem.
The schematic of 3850 is something different , all the construction.
May be this kit sounds good.
But it is light of years far away from Accuphase.
1611 is my best choice for single opamp as 1612 1622 2134 for doubles.
I prefer to build "open source" models like pass labs aleph 1.7 that is my main preamplifier.
Salas Mesmerized B1X1 , based on Pass B1 is also a very very good preamplifier without gain (using digital sources that DAC provide necessary voltage.
Buffers amplify only current .
Sufficient for 90% of demands.
2021 JC3 is also a good solution.
Board is available on e bay.
Only board.
It means that we can buy quality parts.
It adopts a perfect shunt power supply and line preamplifier units are same with JC3 hdams.
My channel Dimitris is really about building stuff for the average audio enthusiast. I do not cater for the person with limitless money that thinks if something cost $10000s of it must be good, most of the time it doesn't! I think most people understand if the original amplifier cost say, $1000 a clone or copy that costs $50 will not be as good. Saying that, put a $50 PCB in a solid aluminum case, add a good power supply, sockets, meters, 30% dealer margin, post and packing. The $50 item now cost $400 but sound exactly the same, because it is!
Some people comment about the 5532 or similar ic's with comments like, it's just a simple low-cost IC, but it's not. Take a look at it's circuit, quite complex. If you were to build this on a PCB, it would be large, and very expensive. These chips are built to very tight tolerances, laser etched components and amazing sound.
If all you need is gain, why would you spend large amounts of money when you can get the gain you need from a $1/2 component? People look at it and cannot believe it possible.
Many years ago, I did just that. I put a single 5532 in an old Accuphase box, with power supply, took it to a HiFi retailer to sell second hand. After some listening, he offered me $250! Not bad for a nice box and a $1 chip.
Why does anyone need a preamp? Largely for extra gain, obviously some like extra tone controls, filters etc but ALL these items need even more gain to make them work, so adding noise, distortion, phase shift. However, if all you need is a few dB of gain a 5532 or similar will do the job. It adds almost no extra noise, distortion so low it's hard to measure. Almost impossible to tell if it's in circuit or not. What can you possibly do to make something you cannot detect sound better?? Throwing money at it will not help. A good preamp is a wire with gain, nothing else. It cannot make ANY amplifier sound better.
@@MichaelBeeny I don't disagree Michael.
Look for some really good preamps.
For example BOZ costs nothing and it's very good.
Legendary preamplification section of NAD 3020 is really good and costs nothing.
Naim Nac 152 is also fantastic and it's very good. I had build it for friend, I bought only PCBs.
For more expensive and expectation.
PRT09 is FANTASTIC, as harmonizer buffer, based on X10d BUT with extremely better power supply, changing a resistor we can have some gain, I have build it as extension of my DAC.
Cat SL1 is difficult I don't recommend for non experienced diyers but it is very very good.
Also glassware kits of John Broskie.
Also Muzg audio kits from Chech.
Pure hi end with very logical prices.
I know that Europe or US is very far from New Zealand need some time for delivery.
of course. It is not an Accuphase even slightly C3850 for three reasons.
1. Accuphase does not provide the service manual for this device.
2. China makes up various devices (illegally) to sell fakes to the naive.
3. Accuphase has many more boards and completely different ones and what disqualifies this counterfeit in the end. The 5534 chip even does not exist in the C3850 model. I have this information from the Accuphase distributor in Europe.
@@robertpud2099 Robert there are thousands beautifull schematics and pcbs for hi end devices, preamps and power amps, no reason for stupid chineese "clones".
The problem with these Chinese devices, which at first glance appear to be of good quality, is that they are built with cheap components, if not outright copies. When will everyone realise this, and stop offering this rubbish, or improve the quality of the supplies. Just look at a Toshiba 2SD424 transistor, a part that is impossible to find new, and that is swarming with so-called original parts on Chinese websites...
Take one out, see what's inside, it's pathetic!
They will end up losing themselves completely with these skulduggery, and their reputation already not very good, will be marked forever. 😮💨
You are right, but someone will always laugh at me when I say" quality parts" , that's funny
I thought the same, but you can buy the bare PCB. Looking at the schematic and board layout is would appear that I have every part needed to build this preamp. Hmmm might try, be interesting to compare one built using a components sourced from Mouser/Digikey and one built using the components used in the kit. The fact that all of those components are added for an extra $17-18 tells you something though.
@@danhorton6182 Absolutely, that's a very interesting idea ! 😉
@@danhorton6182 I have done just that with a current preamp kit on my channel. Replaced the caps, transistors and ic. Did not make any audible or measurable difference whatsoever. I did remove all traces of snake oil, however.
@@MichaelBeenypeki sevgili dost michael,bana hangi preamp modülünü önerirsin,cevabin icin simdiden teşekkür ediyorum 👍
Sorry, I can’t help it, I have to say, those have to be the crappiest looking components I have ever seen - third world rejects for sure. I would never trust feeding the output from that piece of garbage into any of my gear. I would prefer to purchase one single quality capacitor for the price of that kit and set it on my shelf and just enjoy the beauty …
It's good that we are all free (well, some of us) to do as we please.
@@MichaelBeeny indeed
@@MichaelBeeny but I don’t see why the conversation should be derailed and taken as a personal offense - it was not meant that way - and it would be a far more productive endeavor to address the point I am making. Which is to say, it is a great risk to put a device such as this at the front end of your system.
@@aerofart Hi Aerostar, sorry if I came over a little blunt. No a fence was intended. I appreciate your input. Getting back to topic. It is what it is after all. The way I look a Hi end audio is this. All I need from a preamp is a little extra gain, no filters, no RIAA and no tone controls. This does just that. It adds nothing to the sound. If I used the best (more expensive) components, what will I gain?? If the lower cost preamp adds nothing, a more expensive nothing is still nothing. I accept better caps may well last longer but we have none in the signal path. Hi End audio has probably more snake oil within it that any other business, most of it very expensive oil at that. If you have the money and like the sound of snake oil fine, everyone is happy.
@@MichaelBeeny thanks for the clarification. In all fairness, I did come off as a little blunt and forceful about my opinions as well. I suppose this preamp will fit into someone’s budget and needs nicely, and might even inspire an upgrade path.
I agree that there is definitely a lot of snake oil out there, but there are also some real gains to be had. You just have to navigate the rough waters wisely.
Keep up the good work.