Hi all! Cheers for watching and commenting, really interesting what you guys are saying! Sorry I can’t answer each comment individually, so many! Cheers guys 🙌
I am a dealer for Kove in Colorado. It is a new bike for us in the last few months. I must say that Parts availability is excellent where we are. I can get anything I need in a couple of days. The distributor stocks to building an entire bike. We have not received the 800 yet but are looking forward to it very much.
T700 extreme owner, My T7 weights approx : 213kgs, because of yamaha stock crash bars + rally aluminium big bashplate + fog lamps kit. With 16L of fuel and It has 74hp on the flywheel. Kove 800 X rally : 193 kgs (proof on a video), with 19L of fuel, bigger suspensions travel and diameter, stock crash bar and rear luggage rack. That is 20kgs less with 20hp more and 3L more fuel… also fuel tank goes center under the rider wich is even better center of gravity then low front tank from ktm. No brainer, once the 800x rally will be available in France, the Tenere will be sold.
Thanks for your video! I'm one of the first owners of Kove 800x pro in Europe, received it 2 weeks ago. 1000km so far. So far I'm very happy with it: extremely lightweight, very powerful - incredible torque gives you enough punch even at 150km/h.
@@allancnc Comparing to my wife's sv650 '2022 (200kg) - it's WAY easier to pull/push on the parking lot. Comparing to my previous Voge 300 Rally (160kg) - it's heavier. So - something in the middle, i'd say 185kg
Been driving the bike since may, surpass all expectations. Light….and you feel its light, low centre of gravity, power oh yea. Everything works like a charm, hereby gearbox, clutch, suspension. Offroad driving capabilities is really great. And no funny bike-reactions due to terrain conditions like top-heavy bikes.
4 місяці тому+13
Chinese machines are not old chinese.. Buid quality better than the previous... Main issue is service and the spare parts prevalence.
I test rode the Kove 800x Pro last week and am expecting delivery from the first batch of UK bikes in the next couple of weeks. Based in Northumberland, so if you want to have a look at it, let me know!
I have a CF MOTO 800 MT Touring , and no issues whatsoever. Based on KTM 790 Adventure. Brilliant bike. Fully loaded. Just came back from Lake District a tour of 800 miles, did even 6h in the bike. Can’t believe how comfortable it is. So for those sitting on the fence, go for it. It’s backed up by KTM dealership in Europe.
I do think CF Moto and Kove are about to disrupt the industry. On the weight department, would love to see a video of someone disassembling a KTM and a Kove in parts to understand where the weight difference comes from. Either way, a CF Moto 450 MT for the same price or even less than a Honda CRF300, or a Kove 800 for less than a Tenere, at some point they will reach the tipping point, and with volume dealer network and other issues will be fixed. I own a ‘22 890 Adventure R, that if I decide to replace it with a new bike I do have the option to pay 60% less for a 450 MT. I get it is half the displacement, half the power, but every time I go off-road I wouldn’t mind to have less money on the line, especially when the bike goes down.
Hi there! I gambled.. Voge 900DSX It is essentialy a BMW F900GSA but speaks chinese. Engine definitely built in same factory, most of the bike most likely too. At 6000km right now, only minor issues (headlight was too high, steering stem not greased, clutch too hard, throttle jerky at ciry speeds, ergonomics issues with my 186cm). But no vibration, cruise control. Oh the factory luggage system I ordered is 3 months late. So far... :)
Cheers! Ireland is one the best countries to tour with spectacular scenery and massive biking culture, but for some reason never gets much of a mention! Thanks for watching :D
I don't own a Kove nor have I ever ridden one, but it does seem like the Chinese have really stepped up their game on manufacturing some decent competitive products.
I'm a bit older than you and remember the first CB750 Honda hitting these shores. "No lad, they'll never catch on, wouldn't see me dead riding one of those". Mmmmmm 🤔
Those were the days! At that time I recall a Norton Commando rider relegated to a 50cc moped while he waited months for it to be fixed despite being made here. The Honda wouldn’t have let him down or broken his leg starting it. A press of the button. Then came the Z1 and the rest is history……
It's an oil restriction problem due to misalignment of the (very narrow) oil channels inside the casting of the head, not the incorrect material or heat treatment of the camshafts.
@@vgstbimo I think it's the tiny oil jets that spray oil onto the cams are plugging up. The new replacement heads have a screen filtering the oil before it gets to the oil jet. If your cams are worn make sure you replace the head with an updated one and all new oil jets.
The CF Moto 450MT reminds me of the Honda CB750 Four. It will shift the motorcycle industry and make the other manufactures take notice. the CB750 Four took five years to take effect. The internet will accelerate this movement!
The Chinese are definitely coming and I’m all for it. However the 800 is equipped with a KTM engine which makes me question its reliability. Maybe kove fixed the issues but only time will tell. Crossing my fingers the Chinese are here to compete with the Japanese for the most reliable bike. At the end of the day, that’s kind of what matters the most.
Love my t7 to death. But it's still so heavy. I have a 800 Rally X on order. If we want this bike, and we want the dealer support, we have to step up and order the bike and give them support. They aren't gonna offer support if no one buys. It's a two way street.
I have been riding a Kove 800x for the past few months and now it has about 9000 kms on the clock. It has been trouble free. As reliable as any Japanese or European motorcycle I have seen. The only issue I have with this bike is jerky throttle response as mentioned in MCN's review as well. Hopefully they will fix this with a better ecu map.Also it is amazing off road, they have tuned the suspension and geometry of the bike for perfect balance off road.
Just received the 800X Pro. The bike came from the dealer with many faults such as too little air in tubeless wheels (1.5 bar ) , and a very tight chain slack. Small details but I think that dealers who has not too much of experience in adventure or , off road segment will find difficult to finetune or repair those vehicles.
@@Motoeuro My T7 came from the dealer with the handle bars mounted offset to the right by a few centimetres, I thought it felt a bit funny at first, and it took me a few days to notice the reason. I am certain every dealer sends out bikes slapped together, after charging you for assembly, it is the nature of business and hiring good staff is never 100% etc. I was a little surprised, and miffed knowing it was long standing Yamaha dealer, here in Canada. But then a year and bit later, off warranty, I had an issue requiring parts for my rear axle assembly, thread galling, the dealer, and Yamaha had it replaced and fixed within a week. A week later I was on my planned road trip (some would call that an adventure but I didn't drop it or break my leg needing a helicopter rescue alerted from a sat phone..I digress). Clearly there is a bigger picture when owning a bike aside from price and weight and fuel capacity...a much bigger picture. I think you addressed this well in your video. I am sure China has a modern manufacturing standard, meeting the world face to face, so we can't knock the bike because its made in China, that would be baseless in the modern context. Looks like a great bike, I wouldn't buy one...not ever, because I have the choice to buy my preferred brands, and dealer network is vital..if you want to ride and not talk about riding, or missing rides etc. Yes its a gamble...simple as pie.
@@Motoeuro Dealers are meant to know the bike they are building up from a crate. But correct air pressure in the tires and correct chain slack is something that belongs to basic knowledge when you're a motorcycle dealer (independent of the brand).
Trouble is as soon as you ride the bike out the showroom you take a massive depreciation hit, no matter the manufacturer. It’s why I’m looking at the MT450 at only just over £5500 - I’ll keep the bike more than 4 years so it’s a no brainer.
Depreciation is irrelevant. It’s about supply and demand. At to use the CF Moto 450MT as your example, if you were lucky enough to get one this year, now we know there won’t be any more until next Spring, I’d bet you could easily sell one to somebody not willing to wait, for more than the RRP. So do Chinese bikes depreciate?, not if they’re decent, everyone wants one, and the next slow boat from China doesn’t get to you for 6 months 😂😂😂
@@peakrider4886 a Think you’re wrong - until I see a confirmed case such as you cite I won’t believe it. Anyway your point is irrelevant to me as I will be keeping the bike more than 4 years by which point time it will have most definitely depreciated.
@@RichardS-qh8mi I’m not arguing with you. I’m the same as you, I have a Kawasaki W800 which I’ve had since 2021 and I fully intend on keeping it long term, not just because it’s perfect for my needs, but you can’t buy them any longer, so it doesn’t make any sense for me to sell it. I can’t disagree with you because I haven’t seen any 450MT come up on the second hand market, but I can imagine anyone who would speculate on the bike market, that you could sell one for RRP or a little higher for anyone that didn’t want to wait until March.
Definitely this is a excellent looking midweight of road oriented adv bike! Look at this geometry simply it looks awesome, and of course i hope to come with good reliability! So If i decide to buy adv bike, definitely would be this KOVE.
Living in Australia and owning a flagship Honda, it’s a minimum of 6 weeks for common parts, and some parts have taken 6 months (I ordered wheels, complete) and some that I ordered 3 years ago are still showing on back order (bolts and nuts for sub frame after one came loose and vanished) I replaced the parts using off the shelf stuff from the local nut and bolt specialist, but wanted Genuine Honda so as to keep the bike completely “genuine and original” for what that’s worth. I’ve let this continue purely for the “shits and giggles” factor. So…no. Name brands and dealer networks don’t count for shit in my experience. The same with the KTM I had. Waited 3 months for a water pump kit to be told “nil stock”. I put in 3 orders through 3 suppliers for the same thing, and after 9 months I had exactly half the parts I needed. What this says to me is, buy stocks of the common consumables when you buy the bike. Shop online.
I was also at the ABR this year and seen the Kove, look very interesting to me but £8500 is a fair gamble, I also road tested the CFMoto 450, I really liked it, so much so I went to buy one when I got back home as i was in the market, but then there is the problem, dealer told me they have sold out and wouldn’t get anymore till March next year! So I bought the T7, loads of dealers, loads or parts, loads of aftermarket and 100% proven. You pay your money you take your choice 👍
I'm very keen on one of these. I'd love to ride the 450 rally too. Unfortunately, no idea if we'll get them in NZ :( I recently rode the CFMOTO MT450, that was an AWESOME little bike, but the power and weight of the KOVE are really hard to ignore.... I want one!
Hi, I really am looking forward for long term revues. Because price wise, it IS tempting, but does the quality be here? And do I need to mention that the 790's engine is not the most reliable one ? So wait and see...
Every person I have seen review the bike says that they are really light, quite how they have managed it is another thing. I test rode the CF Moto 450Mt at the ABR Festival, loved it and ordered one the following Monday, at £5699 for a 450 twin I am willing to take the risk. The 450 Rally is an excellent bike, but a bit hardcore for me. I am not so sure about Kove, as a Company, the MD who was the driving force of the Company was forced out and without him I would worry about the direction the Company takes, only time will tell.
@@thomasdoe6768 I'm changing the oil and filter in my Africa Twin every 6000kms anyway, so the service intervals don't bother me. If it was my daily ride though... I might feel differently.
@@thomasdoe6768 100% It just isn't an issue for me, but if you are crunching tons of miles I get it. Hopefully, someone will build something really good soon.
I have one on order after testing both the 790 adv which for a brand new bike already had issues some kind of error message about cooling system and the dealership didn't set up the clutch correctly, the 450mt which was a blast and extremely easy to maneuver (150kg) but going back after testing it offroad I tried giving it the beans but it struggled (as expected) and finally I got the 800x pro and it felt great. Very maneuverable, just like the 450mt and the power of the engine... And by the way, comparing specs of 800x pro with Yamaha only the rally would come close but less power and more expensive closer to the f900gs.
What i really am wondering is how exactly did they manage to reduce weight? I've heard they used an aluminium subframe which is a "little bit" fragile. And what other parts of the bike were reduced in weight?
I currently own a 2018 Royal Enfield Himalayan 411. Just last week I was searching for a replacement handlebar and so many dealers (including some official royal Enfield partners!) told me they wouldn't stock their items as they would be be laying around to long before selling. They all would import from India, which takes a long time. Infuriating! Getting a service done at an official dealer had very long wait lists, so I went with a different mechanic. I like that bike, but the next one will be a Honda, Yamaha or BMW. Much better support here in germany.
It's really not that long ago people were sceptical of Japanese Honda and Yamaha motorcycles. Quite a few (now out of business) motorcycle manufacturers laughed at them. Those who refuse to learn from history are destined to repeat it...
I can chime in a little bit on experience of none Japanese motorcycles n why we just bought the Honda Nx500 which I’m loving after todays ride. Which we just sold a T7 for. In the past we’ve had 90% of the smaller adv bikes, for context 2x 390adv (rejected riddled with issues for full refunds at 147 an 269 miles) Himalayan 2022 (rejected full of issues at 500 miles) dealer was unable to get the parts to fix it, 300 rally totally reliable, I’ve personally had 38 other motorcycles from 1927 Nortons, 1960s Nortons a 650ss I used as a daily for 4 years n 4 winters that proved more reliable than the Indian built bikes with better parts availablity than the Himmy. I’ve also had ex iom TT race bikes rzv500r two strokes a 250lc I did 2k miles a week on an lots of GS’s 1200s a t7 a the 1150gsa I think those are some really points you brought up. I think it’s easy to get swept right up in all the paid review videos creating the hype thrashing the bikes they don’t own that doesn’t matter if they send it into a ditch to get the shot with pro cinematographers and musicians. It’s like the Enfield videos they are sublime yet there’s been a few of us who have had really bad ownership experiences I had a bmw dealer destroy an engine on a 1200gsa was fixed. After 2 engines but they got it right in the end. The Himmy they couldn’t even get the parts to fix it and that’s a real shame. An not something you see talked about a lot. The pro videos are fab to watch but what are they like to live with in town riding at normal road speeds. That’s where I’ve found a few big discrepancies over the years to the pro reviews usually being entirely different to what’s sold in the vids. It’s an interesting point though are we seeing a paradigm shift like we did in the 1970s maybe we are but at the moment I’d be super careful when we had issues with the Ktm’s they didn’t want to know or help it was only my knowledge of consumer law that got the dealer to do the right thing. Very interesting video and discourse I wonder if that’s a wet or dry weight We did take a look at the new cf moto but the quality and reliability of the Honda won out :) perfect for our adventures on the road. It’ll be interesting to see how they develop the bikes going forward and think it’s really great that there’s more options coming to market :)
@@verlinswarey507 hi mate I just put a vid up about it unfortunately my dad has stage 3b/4 prostate cancer and the T7 was just to tall for him my own bike has been an 1150gsa which unfortunately I’m having to sell due to us downsizing our house. The T7 was an amazing bike for a big heavy twin on the trails a 300 rally was easier to manage but the T7 was surprising an quite easy to manage I’ve never dropped a bike on the lanes as I always stop as soon as I need to even if it’s every 200 yards so can’t comment on pickup ability. What I didn’t like with the t7 was constant cramp in my wrist with it, the lack of wind protection on the road an tubes I think it all comes down to what your idea of adventure is as that’s so unique best thing I’d say is test ride them the engines are massively different in both character and power delivery Tenere a bit more grunty n quick the Honda compact recycling and fun. :) there’s quite a lot of wind protection on the nx500. There’s a big difference in the manageability of them I think they both sit at different ends or sides of the adventure coin if that makes sense :)
I test rode the Kove recently and straight away my Taureg went up for sale - the feel of the weight difference is crazy and the engine is certainly punchy. Is it a gamble? Probably but hey, life is a gamble :) I took a gamble when I built my CRF500L and that worked out pretty well. The importer say less than 10 days to delivery, can't wait.
i think the chinese motorbikes are very tempting ! for sure they will expand dealers and parts avalability in the 'near' future otherwise it would make little sense to try and find a competitive space in the current market. in the last Paris Dakar the Kove 450 had no serious technical problems. unfotrunately the excellent ceo stepped down but i would definetly give them a try. i am in fact doubting between an himalayan 450 and another chinese brand the ctm 450. best everything.
CF moto,Voge,Kove,a new era is coming,it will take 2-3 years may be to enter the market,and chinese motorbike are going to make pressure on Japanese and european brands in the near future;ratio quality/equipment vs price will impact our view .In France ,Voge ,for exemple and CF start to have many dealers ,they sell also Benelli and few other brands;chinese know how to do business,they have the will and the money to suceed!engines are KTM,BMW,Honda ,Showa ,Brembo,Bosch components will give confidence to user in term of reliability.Few years and you will be able to sale your chinese bike on the market!!
Waiting for the Kove 450 ! That's the next unicorn 🦄 If only the T7 lost 50 Kilo's, but nooo, lets not listen to our customers.. So Kove 450, here we come!
Give them time to grow. You can't build up a Honda dealer network overnight. Based on the specs and the first reviews it seems they are off for a great start.
It's true. Honda didn't have a huge dealer network on day one either. And huge networks don't necessarily mean much. You can still wait months for some parts.
Few stuff, first off weight. Koves claim is correct, but when you buy one it comes with upper crashbars and a luggage rack as standard, thats where the extra 8kg comes from on the delaers sites. Tank is meashured by volume on official sites and rounded up, while by usage and rounded down on dealer sites. Thats why the 1L discrepency. Parts will also be available by CF Moto dealerships as Kove 800 uses the 800MT engine. Right now its cheap as its a new thing, less dealerships, less orders, less everything. Once they "prove" themselfs, im shure the price will baloon. So i bought mine early. Reliabity? Engine is solid, so are the components, im only wondering about the abuse the frame will take (welds that is). Dealerships in EU? Dont worry, i have 4 dealerships 30minutes to one hour away from my house... Also, if thers 2 dealerships per country, youre looking at no more than 2 hours to reach one. And thats really not that far now is it.
Yamahas T7 weight is 204kg full tank, even the CFMoto 450MT weighs 197kg , so realistic it will be at least 195kg, thats not even 10kg. You can easy save 10kg on the T7, and that thing is reliable. I hope That the new brands will bring some fresh ideas , but first they have to show endurance . TBH I really like the new KOVE 800 Rally version. The CFM450MT is a cheap try and no real competitors, and rides amazing, thats a more no brainer, the Kove 800 is more a gamble
I'd give it a couple of years before risking a Kove. However, having KYB suspension (forks, not sure if the shock is also KYB) is a big plus, as the KTM 790/890 suspension is awful. I'd still pay more for the KTM, as the low CoG is important to me.
The bike is great. As far as part availability don’t worry their network is spreading, give them a break. Whether we like it or not the Chinese tiger has invaded in cars and bikes as they’ve done successfully so many years in electronics. Don’t be amazed of in some years all of us are only Chinese bike owners…😊
Oh yeah, I get that, hence my comment about Japanese bikes - they took over and my question is; Is this happening again? Personally, I feel Chinese subsidiaries and low labour costs give them a competitive edge, they’re called "the world's factory" for a reason. The acceleration of Chinese industry is only going one way, let’s face it, a vast amount of us have Chinese made iPhones, big screen TV’s and even strong brands like KTM and Triumph are mostly Chinese / Thai made. Even the BMW 310GS. I simply question the reliability and networks at present, in 5 years, it could be a very different story. Cheers for commenting :D
I am considering this bike to step up from an indestructible 2006 v-strom 650 (thst I will NEVER sell). Considering the Transalp and Africa Twin also. But before I make a decision, I want to have some more info on long term owners of the Kove. I am specially worried about camshaft premature wear, considering the problems KTM is having (and the Kove engine is derived from the KTM). I expect to get at least 6 years and 70,000 miles from a bike, so the cheaper price of the Kove is not that meaningful if it is a maintenance money pit.
It is a definite no go until there is a confirmed fix for 790/890/901 camshaft issue. For me the Kove 450 Rally seems the unicorn. CF Moto 450MT also interesting and I test rode it, but why did they make it so heavy. It is still lighter and more nimble than any competiting twin, so it will be a big hit anyway.
Heavier, surely, because it’s a twin? But twins are easier to get through compliance to anti-pollution requirements. Maybe there will be more twins replacing singles from the big manufacturers before the ‘battery only’ legal brick wall happens.
After risking your luck with an Aprilia (I made the same mistake last year), are you sure you want to repeat the same gamble with a unknown Chinese motorcycle? I'm back on a Japanese one, Suzuki at the moment.
@@Motoeuro I would like to point out that I have nothing against Chinese bikes, I also owned a CFMoto 800MT and it actually ran quite well, sold a few months ago . I will probably buy another one, 450MT, as a second bike for offroad use. However, there are motorcycle industries with consolidated experience and collaborations with Western companies. Not Kove at the moment, it is just a beautiful hope but without guarantees of an adequate sales network, assistance, spare parts, reliability, etc...
@walbeit Kove vs. Aprilia tuareg hmm that's interesting.. so please let us know why tuareg let you down.. what happened so now you saying " mistake I did "?
@@Pablito-d8g The Aprila Tuareg had all the features I was looking for in a motorcycle for off-road use: adequate engine, weight, dimensions. Unfortunately it also had some defects that were unacceptable to me: a modern engine shouldn't consume oil (and it consumed a lot), it had the worst gearbox I've ever driven, it really heated up too much. Maybe Kove is better, maybe worse, I don't know, we'll probably only find out in 10 years or more. At the moment I preferred to return to a more reassuring Japanese bike.
@@johna6968 70hp is a bit lame for a road bike. My Africa Twin has 90hp and that is pretty lame AND that 90hp isn't a hindrance off-road - although its weight is - I never find myself in the dirt going "If only this bike made LESS power!"
Not sure about that one. You usually get what you pay for...I learnt that the hard way with my beautiful, Chinese-made Italien lady. Loved the looks of that Benelli. Yes, some parts did not work that great, but that can happen with any bike from any company (made on a Monday or something like that. Even if the rear brake is stuck, which is not funny.) But as I decided I wanted to customize the seat and therefore had to strip it...oh boy. The plastic sheet was paper-thin. It broke on several spots when I pulled out the staples. Had to patch it up with some resin, which made it stronger. Then I started thinking "what might lurk beneath this thin shell? Do I really want to find out?". No, I traded this bike on the first occassion - against a Yamaha. Boy was I glad. That thing with a workshop was a whole other thing. It was...difficult (nowadays it is no problem, as my daughter is about to become a mechanic. She did several internships at motorcycle dealers - Yamaha mostly). But still, I will happily stick with my Yam. One aspect my husband mentioned that I rode that Benelli only when we took a tour together. Never alone (somehow I unconsciously could no trust this bike). Not so with the Yamaha. But it is up to you if you want to try that Kove. Sure looks nice - but IMO the Ténéré looks even nicer. And admit it, this is what you really want. You keep mentioning it again and again. Maybe it is time to fulfill that desire.
@@Motoeuro Right. And I mean...that magic reduction of weight must happen somewhere. It could mean they used space or magic material at some spots. But then the bike should be more expensive? Or...they might have exchanged metal for plastics, or a bar here and there is thinner. Which would not be great on any bike, let alone an adventure bike. You do some cross-country tours. Which means taking some luggage with you, and sometimes a little more extreme offroad. So, more stress on the parts. Sure, any bike can break. But what I saw in your videos, you mostly know what you are doing and what you can do to a bike. But what if the bike cannot take the usual shenanigans because it is made weaker? Have fun finding a shop that can quickly fix it!
It's great to have another player in the market but the t7 can be had for under list price a Tuareg is 9k the kove is being sold on its light weight but has been on the scales and is heavier than advertised and therefore I can't see what it offers .. happy to be proven wrong mate has a 450 rally and it's excellent but was surprised the ceo and passion behind the brand stepped down
in your comparison ,you forgot the full KYB suspensions, the tubeless Pirelli, the bosch brine, the tisko brakes & extras. if it was Japanese will cost over 15.000€
I'd buy one, if i had a dealer within an hours drive. I had an AJP for awhile. The nearest dealer was literally 1000 miles away. I had to have the bike transported there, and back, to have a warranty item taken care of. Shan't do that again.
Hay mate Paul from Australia, we don’t even have a Kova importer ! , so NO dealers at all . CF Moto is quite large in Australia and been here for some years now . BUT I would not buy a new Chinese ADV 3:38 bike ( like a 450 MT ) as resale value would be crap and buying new your still supporting “ the Chinese war machine “ , I personally have nothing against the people. BUT also they ripe off all the tech and designs. At the Royal Enfield- like the 650 and new 450 Himalayan are SO original in design. Yes would support Indian economy but NOT Chinese with a new bike . YES and I know about a lot of stuff we use is made in China BUT I always buy non Chinese made goods if I can , Australia first , then European, American, other Asian countries. “ so i practice what I preach . I have a Moto Guzzi V85tt , - Italian, a Honda CRF 300 Rally - made in Thailand , a Suzuki SV 650 made in Japan and a old Kawasaki Super Shepa 250 - made in Japan. Anyway that’s my take on the Chinese thing , and yes I agree there bikes are becoming very good , But I will stay away .
I always wonder, if they can't even get the specs on the website straigt, what else are they messing up? Obviously it's not the engineer making the website, but it's about the mindset the company is in. The bike has been weight by an independant magazine at 193kg fully fueled. That's barely more than 10kgs less than a T7. From an engineering standpoint, that's quite a lot, considering the bikes are pretty comparable, with the Kove having more power and therefore also bigger cooling system and so on. Dealer network doesn't bother me personally, I can take care of everything short of reprogramming the ECU. But still, the reliability is a big question. I've gone with the T7 Extreme. It does everything I need it to do and I don't need to waste a single thought about reliability. I just know it just works. Also as a semi-pro rider, I don't want or need TC and rider modes, I want something that behaves consistent and doesn't need any attention. The T7 gives me that. In my opinion that's well worth the premium in price.
I agree that the lack of rider aides is a major bonus and not having them worth something - however, they could have put some quality suspension on it. Yamaha always over charge for their bikes though.
The true cost of ownership depends on your buying pattern. If you change every 3 years I’d stick with the usual suspects plus the dealer support is certainly an issue. As a KTM dealer said to me recently, the PCP payments per month will flush out residuals. On the other hand, this bike seems to have a lot more (or less by 20/25kg) to offer. The Chinese are beating the West on spec and price, not innovating like the Japanese who took on the lazy, complacent European/British/Americans on and wiped the floor with us/them. As a potential buyer and older (and maybe wiser) weight is becoming more the issue. I’ve gone from GSA to 701 Husky in 4 steps and love the low weight and skinny profile. The Kove might just coax me back a bit with some creature comforts.
@@Motoeuro I mean that the company that makes the engine manufacture 2 million units pr year, and they did it for many many years, a proven and reliable manufacturer.
Dealer networks don't bother me - if the machine is of proven reliability. Which we don't have here. I see two types of buyers mainly. Those that are pinched for funds and can't really afford the main brands; and folks with plenty of funds (and other bikes in the garage) that can absorb the risk if the bike (or company) turns out to be a stinker. Myself, I like to look, but my CB1100 (and the AC in the car) have spoiled me to the extent I'm pretty much out of the market. Now if I won the lottery, oh hell, I'd buy an airplane! LOL
Reliability and engine characteristics is the most important to me. And when Yamaha launched the Rally Edition in 2020 this model RevedMyHeart 💙💛🏁🤛🏼 In the meantime there is a lot of after market parts and options available for the T7 and just in case nobody is going to support Kove bikes in the near future, who knows what will going to happen. On the other side it may offer a chance to new gear companies to grow with Kove but only in case the manufacturer can keep their promise and the confidence of the buyers. Time will tell. P.S. I just checked the Owners/Maintenance Manual and found some interresting details: a) Cellphone screen projection navigation display. Once you have set up the navigation settings in the app, you can enable the cellphone screen projection navigation display. b) Engine oil & filter replacement every 5.000 km / 1 year 3.0 L with filter change, 2.8 L without filter c) break fluid replacement every 1 year d) fuel pipe and filter replacement every 1 year e) valve clearance inspection every 20.000 km / 2 years f) 3-mode OFF-ROAD ABS with rear ABS OFF possibility
T7 owner here. Tempting stats, not re power but re weight savings. Styling of Kove 800 is horrendous in my personal, limited and biased opinion. I can't ride ugly bikes.
And I am old enough to remember the “Japanese bikes are all rubbish” mantra, and the British manufacturers taking apart a Honda 50cc DOHC single cylinder (over-the-counter) racer and saying in the British M/C press, “we couldn’t even make that in this country”.
I’m not sure KTM supply chains are that good. I’ve said elsewhere a friend had to wait 13 months for a new tank for his MV. No bike for 13 months. A disaster. Other testers have said that the engine does NOT feel like a KTM engine, so there’s likely some differences. But for me no bike over 300cc is a temptation..
I recently bought a really clever Chinese action cam, like Kove price and spec beat the market but to use it I had to sign my life (phone) away. I know this sounds daft but beware of spies hiding in tempting tech.
I was comparing xl750 to kove and damn. Honda comes overpriced for what it is. Kove seemed have better build quality. Transalp different gaps in the plastic panels, rust within 3 months of ownership. Come on Honda.....
Kove’s been engaged in shady marketing regarding curb weights since the announcement of their 450. Someone knowledgeable in kove bikes posted that their claimed curb weights at eicma and on the global site are for zero petrol in the tank for the 450, and just a few liters in the tank for the 800x. This why the european sites show significantly larger curb weights. Thats just shady for a brand that should be trying to build trust.
Regardless of the cost saving - £1500+ is a lot of fuel to get you places - the 25kg weight saving, if accurate, is invaluable. You’re getting a bike that is twice as powerful for the same, if not less, weight than many of the 300-500cc class - Himalayan, 450MT, G310GS, etc. However, the KTM 790 engine is one riddled in controversy at the moment, and this might be Kove’s Achilles heel, how many trust that engine and the now notorious camshaft wear? Is it a gamble, well yes, but any less of a gamble than those that bought the 411 Himalayan when it first came out? Maybe, just because it’s £8.5k and not a more palatable £4k.
As a Tiger 800 owner in the US it has caught my attention .In my 30's and 40's I would have checked the specs and the reviews but in my 60's I have a problem with Chinese products and politics . I do my best to avoid as many Chinese products as possible which isn't easy . It's just who I am .
I thought I felt the same way, but look at South Korea and Hyundai/Kia. Same boat years ago and Americans took a chance and we helped transform that country with our purchases. The same could be said for China- maybe we need to give them a chance?
And never apologies for that. I deliberately stayed off geo-politics as this video would have gone on forever. It’s a consideration that will mean a lot to many people. Thanks :D
Hi all! Cheers for watching and commenting, really interesting what you guys are saying! Sorry I can’t answer each comment individually, so many! Cheers guys 🙌
great video - great comments
I am a dealer for Kove in Colorado. It is a new bike for us in the last few months. I must say that Parts availability is excellent where we are. I can get anything I need in a couple of days. The distributor stocks to building an entire bike. We have not received the 800 yet but are looking forward to it very much.
Me and the other 4 people I know that test rode the 800x, ended up buying one. I have it since couple of weeks and I couldn't be more happy with it
T700 extreme owner,
My T7 weights approx : 213kgs, because of yamaha stock crash bars + rally aluminium big bashplate + fog lamps kit. With 16L of fuel and It has 74hp on the flywheel.
Kove 800 X rally : 193 kgs (proof on a video), with 19L of fuel, bigger suspensions travel and diameter, stock crash bar and rear luggage rack. That is 20kgs less with 20hp more and 3L more fuel… also fuel tank goes center under the rider wich is even better center of gravity then low front tank from ktm.
No brainer, once the 800x rally will be available in France, the Tenere will be sold.
Thanks for your video! I'm one of the first owners of Kove 800x pro in Europe, received it 2 weeks ago. 1000km so far. So far I'm very happy with it: extremely lightweight, very powerful - incredible torque gives you enough punch even at 150km/h.
Excellent news! Cheers for sharing!
WOW! AWESOME! hope you get a really good run out of it. BEST WISHES, CAM FROM NZ :)
So what is the exact weight with fuel topped, please?
@@allancnc I think someone posted it further down, and explained the discrepancies in wet/curb weights that have been stated.
@@allancnc Comparing to my wife's sv650 '2022 (200kg) - it's WAY easier to pull/push on the parking lot. Comparing to my previous Voge 300 Rally (160kg) - it's heavier. So - something in the middle, i'd say 185kg
Been driving the bike since may, surpass all expectations. Light….and you feel its light, low centre of gravity, power oh yea. Everything works like a charm, hereby gearbox, clutch, suspension. Offroad driving capabilities is really great. And no funny bike-reactions due to terrain conditions like top-heavy bikes.
Chinese machines are not old chinese.. Buid quality better than the previous... Main issue is service and the spare parts prevalence.
I test rode the Kove 800x Pro last week and am expecting delivery from the first batch of UK bikes in the next couple of weeks. Based in Northumberland, so if you want to have a look at it, let me know!
I have a CF MOTO 800 MT Touring , and no issues whatsoever. Based on KTM 790 Adventure. Brilliant bike. Fully loaded. Just came back from Lake District a tour of 800 miles, did even 6h in the bike. Can’t believe how comfortable it is. So for those sitting on the fence, go for it. It’s backed up by KTM dealership in Europe.
Thats comforting that there's third-party back up, would KTM cover it bumper-to-bumper I wonder or just the lump?
Isn’t that the engine with cam problems ?
@@warrenr4 Nope that was for the engines up until 2018. This is after that. Well at least at CF MOTO, not sure about KOVE
Who told you that KTM dealers are going to work on CF? It is simply not true.
@@Motoeuro no they won't. They even don't cover the Husqvarna that comes from the same factory, if they are not a dealer for it.
I do think CF Moto and Kove are about to disrupt the industry. On the weight department, would love to see a video of someone disassembling a KTM and a Kove in parts to understand where the weight difference comes from. Either way, a CF Moto 450 MT for the same price or even less than a Honda CRF300, or a Kove 800 for less than a Tenere, at some point they will reach the tipping point, and with volume dealer network and other issues will be fixed. I own a ‘22 890 Adventure R, that if I decide to replace it with a new bike I do have the option to pay 60% less for a 450 MT. I get it is half the displacement, half the power, but every time I go off-road I wouldn’t mind to have less money on the line, especially when the bike goes down.
Just discovered your channel and liking your presentations and delivery along with British humour and sarcasm….from a Brit living in 🇨🇦
Hi there! I gambled.. Voge 900DSX It is essentialy a BMW F900GSA but speaks chinese. Engine definitely built in same factory, most of the bike most likely too. At 6000km right now, only minor issues (headlight was too high, steering stem not greased, clutch too hard, throttle jerky at ciry speeds, ergonomics issues with my 186cm). But no vibration, cruise control. Oh the factory luggage system I ordered is 3 months late. So far... :)
Thanks for including Ireland in your commentary. I really like your style of delivery and always keep an eye out for your new videos.
Cheers! Ireland is one the best countries to tour with spectacular scenery and massive biking culture, but for some reason never gets much of a mention! Thanks for watching :D
I don't own a Kove nor have I ever ridden one, but it does seem like the Chinese have really stepped up their game on manufacturing some decent competitive products.
Agreed. Are we there just yet? I guess time will tell when we get longer term reviews. I am tempted!
I'm a bit older than you and remember the first CB750 Honda hitting these shores. "No lad, they'll never catch on, wouldn't see me dead riding one of those". Mmmmmm 🤔
Ha ha! yeah I hear ya!
Those were the days! At that time I recall a Norton Commando rider relegated to a 50cc moped while he waited months for it to be fixed despite being made here. The Honda wouldn’t have let him down or broken his leg starting it. A press of the button. Then came the Z1 and the rest is history……
wonder if it has the soft camshaft issue with the KTM engine 🤔
It's an oil restriction problem due to misalignment of the (very narrow) oil channels inside the casting of the head, not the incorrect material or heat treatment of the camshafts.
@@vgstbimo I think it's the tiny oil jets that spray oil onto the cams are plugging up. The new replacement heads have a screen filtering the oil before it gets to the oil jet. If your cams are worn make sure you replace the head with an updated one and all new oil jets.
There is no motorcycle from any brand in any country that I wouldn’t buy🙂
The CF Moto 450MT reminds me of the Honda CB750 Four. It will shift the motorcycle industry and make the other manufactures take notice. the CB750 Four took five years to take effect. The internet will accelerate this movement!
Totally :)
The Chinese are definitely coming and I’m all for it. However the 800 is equipped with a KTM engine which makes me question its reliability. Maybe kove fixed the issues but only time will tell. Crossing my fingers the Chinese are here to compete with the Japanese for the most reliable bike. At the end of the day, that’s kind of what matters the most.
Yeah the KTM engine gives me pause too...
Engine is revised with better lubrication and better materials for camshaft as i heard it.
Love my t7 to death. But it's still so heavy. I have a 800 Rally X on order. If we want this bike, and we want the dealer support, we have to step up and order the bike and give them support. They aren't gonna offer support if no one buys. It's a two way street.
Yeah, fair comment there cheers :D
I have been riding a Kove 800x for the past few months and now it has about 9000 kms on the clock. It has been trouble free. As reliable as any Japanese or European motorcycle I have seen. The only issue I have with this bike is jerky throttle response as mentioned in MCN's review as well. Hopefully they will fix this with a better ecu map.Also it is amazing off road, they have tuned the suspension and geometry of the bike for perfect balance off road.
@@adv_rider so good to hear this cheers 👍
Just received the 800X Pro.
The bike came from the dealer with many faults such as too little air in tubeless wheels (1.5 bar ) , and a very tight chain slack. Small details but I think that dealers who has not too much of experience in adventure or , off road segment will find difficult to finetune or repair those vehicles.
Thanks for this, thats a worry! If they cant get the tyre pressure right, not a great sign....
@@Motoeuro My T7 came from the dealer with the handle bars mounted offset to the right by a few centimetres, I thought it felt a bit funny at first, and it took me a few days to notice the reason. I am certain every dealer sends out bikes slapped together, after charging you for assembly, it is the nature of business and hiring good staff is never 100% etc. I was a little surprised, and miffed knowing it was long standing Yamaha dealer, here in Canada. But then a year and bit later, off warranty, I had an issue requiring parts for my rear axle assembly, thread galling, the dealer, and Yamaha had it replaced and fixed within a week. A week later I was on my planned road trip (some would call that an adventure but I didn't drop it or break my leg needing a helicopter rescue alerted from a sat phone..I digress). Clearly there is a bigger picture when owning a bike aside from price and weight and fuel capacity...a much bigger picture. I think you addressed this well in your video. I am sure China has a modern manufacturing standard, meeting the world face to face, so we can't knock the bike because its made in China, that would be baseless in the modern context. Looks like a great bike, I wouldn't buy one...not ever, because I have the choice to buy my preferred brands, and dealer network is vital..if you want to ride and not talk about riding, or missing rides etc. Yes its a gamble...simple as pie.
@@Motoeuro Dealers are meant to know the bike they are building up from a crate. But correct air pressure in the tires and correct chain slack is something that belongs to basic knowledge when you're a motorcycle dealer (independent of the brand).
Kove rally has pleased every owner - i see no reason why the 800x will be any different
mcn just measured 195 kg (with 20 liters of fuel)
Thank you for this :D
Trouble is as soon as you ride the bike out the showroom you take a massive depreciation hit, no matter the manufacturer. It’s why I’m looking at the MT450 at only just over £5500 - I’ll keep the bike more than 4 years so it’s a no brainer.
That happens with virtually every bike, these new Chinese bikes will hold better value.....
@@MickH60 Think you’re right about this new generation of Chinese bikes, though the cheaper the bike is in the first place the less it has to lose.
Depreciation is irrelevant. It’s about supply and demand. At to use the CF Moto 450MT as your example, if you were lucky enough to get one this year, now we know there won’t be any more until next Spring, I’d bet you could easily sell one to somebody not willing to wait, for more than the RRP. So do Chinese bikes depreciate?, not if they’re decent, everyone wants one, and the next slow boat from China doesn’t get to you for 6 months 😂😂😂
@@peakrider4886 a
Think you’re wrong - until I see a confirmed case such as you cite I won’t believe it. Anyway your point is irrelevant to me as I will be keeping the bike more than 4 years by which point time it will have most definitely depreciated.
@@RichardS-qh8mi I’m not arguing with you. I’m the same as you, I have a Kawasaki W800 which I’ve had since 2021 and I fully intend on keeping it long term, not just because it’s perfect for my needs, but you can’t buy them any longer, so it doesn’t make any sense for me to sell it. I can’t disagree with you because I haven’t seen any 450MT come up on the second hand market, but I can imagine anyone who would speculate on the bike market, that you could sell one for RRP or a little higher for anyone that didn’t want to wait until March.
Definitely this is a excellent looking midweight of road oriented adv bike!
Look at this geometry simply it looks awesome, and of course i hope to come with good reliability!
So If i decide to buy adv bike, definitely would be this KOVE.
Living in Australia and owning a flagship Honda, it’s a minimum of 6 weeks for common parts, and some parts have taken 6 months (I ordered wheels, complete) and some that I ordered 3 years ago are still showing on back order (bolts and nuts for sub frame after one came loose and vanished) I replaced the parts using off the shelf stuff from the local nut and bolt specialist, but wanted Genuine Honda so as to keep the bike completely “genuine and original” for what that’s worth. I’ve let this continue purely for the “shits and giggles” factor. So…no. Name brands and dealer networks don’t count for shit in my experience. The same with the KTM I had. Waited 3 months for a water pump kit to be told “nil stock”. I put in 3 orders through 3 suppliers for the same thing, and after 9 months I had exactly half the parts I needed. What this says to me is, buy stocks of the common consumables when you buy the bike. Shop online.
YIKES! That's terrible dealer service - I hear ya! Cheers :D
I was also at the ABR this year and seen the Kove, look very interesting to me but £8500 is a fair gamble, I also road tested the CFMoto 450, I really liked it, so much so I went to buy one when I got back home as i was in the market, but then there is the problem, dealer told me they have sold out and wouldn’t get anymore till March next year! So I bought the T7, loads of dealers, loads or parts, loads of aftermarket and 100% proven. You pay your money you take your choice 👍
Yep. 100%
I'm very keen on one of these. I'd love to ride the 450 rally too. Unfortunately, no idea if we'll get them in NZ :( I recently rode the CFMOTO MT450, that was an AWESOME little bike, but the power and weight of the KOVE are really hard to ignore.... I want one!
Hi, I really am looking forward for long term revues. Because price wise, it IS tempting, but does the quality be here? And do I need to mention that the 790's engine is not the most reliable one ?
So wait and see...
Gladly it's not a ktm engine
Expecting mine in three weeks. I already drive a test motorcycle and i was astonished. Superior motorcycle
Great to hear! :D
Every person I have seen review the bike says that they are really light, quite how they have managed it is another thing. I test rode the CF Moto 450Mt at the ABR Festival, loved it and ordered one the following Monday, at £5699 for a 450 twin I am willing to take the risk. The 450 Rally is an excellent bike, but a bit hardcore for me. I am not so sure about Kove, as a Company, the MD who was the driving force of the Company was forced out and without him I would worry about the direction the Company takes, only time will tell.
5000 km service intervals in 2024 is an absolute no go.
Yeah, I hear ya! But CF moto are a different story to Kove as you mention. The 450mt looks brilliant! Hope you enjoy!
@@thomasdoe6768 I'm changing the oil and filter in my Africa Twin every 6000kms anyway, so the service intervals don't bother me. If it was my daily ride though... I might feel differently.
@@actstuntcam Yeah, but here in Europe, I travel sometimes between 4-8 k kilometers. And I don't want to bother with maintenance during my vacation.
@@thomasdoe6768 100% It just isn't an issue for me, but if you are crunching tons of miles I get it. Hopefully, someone will build something really good soon.
I have one on order after testing both the 790 adv which for a brand new bike already had issues some kind of error message about cooling system and the dealership didn't set up the clutch correctly, the 450mt which was a blast and extremely easy to maneuver (150kg) but going back after testing it offroad I tried giving it the beans but it struggled (as expected) and finally I got the 800x pro and it felt great. Very maneuverable, just like the 450mt and the power of the engine... And by the way, comparing specs of 800x pro with Yamaha only the rally would come close but less power and more expensive closer to the f900gs.
What i really am wondering is how exactly did they manage to reduce weight? I've heard they used an aluminium subframe which is a "little bit" fragile. And what other parts of the bike were reduced in weight?
Yeah, odd eh?
I currently own a 2018 Royal Enfield Himalayan 411. Just last week I was searching for a replacement handlebar and so many dealers (including some official royal Enfield partners!) told me they wouldn't stock their items as they would be be laying around to long before selling. They all would import from India, which takes a long time. Infuriating! Getting a service done at an official dealer had very long wait lists, so I went with a different mechanic. I like that bike, but the next one will be a Honda, Yamaha or BMW. Much better support here in germany.
And thats the issue in reality - Until you need support no one is that bothered, then a simple $50 part is now unobtainable!
BMW parts support for their enduro bikes is certainly nothing to write home about.
It's really not that long ago people were sceptical of Japanese Honda and Yamaha motorcycles. Quite a few (now out of business) motorcycle manufacturers laughed at them.
Those who refuse to learn from history are destined to repeat it...
I can chime in a little bit on experience of none Japanese motorcycles n why we just bought the Honda Nx500 which I’m loving after todays ride. Which we just sold a T7 for.
In the past we’ve had 90% of the smaller adv bikes, for context
2x 390adv (rejected riddled with issues for full refunds at 147 an 269 miles) Himalayan 2022 (rejected full of issues at 500 miles) dealer was unable to get the parts to fix it,
300 rally totally reliable, I’ve personally had 38 other motorcycles from 1927 Nortons, 1960s Nortons a 650ss I used as a daily for 4 years n 4 winters that proved more reliable than the Indian built bikes with better parts availablity than the Himmy.
I’ve also had ex iom TT race bikes rzv500r two strokes a 250lc I did 2k miles a week on an lots of GS’s 1200s a t7 a the 1150gsa I think those are some really points you brought up.
I think it’s easy to get swept right up in all the paid review videos creating the hype thrashing the bikes they don’t own that doesn’t matter if they send it into a ditch to get the shot with pro cinematographers and musicians.
It’s like the Enfield videos they are sublime yet there’s been a few of us who have had really bad ownership experiences
I had a bmw dealer destroy an engine on a 1200gsa was fixed. After 2 engines but they got it right in the end.
The Himmy they couldn’t even get the parts to fix it and that’s a real shame. An not something you see talked about a lot.
The pro videos are fab to watch but what are they like to live with in town riding at normal road speeds. That’s where I’ve found a few big discrepancies over the years to the pro reviews usually being entirely different to what’s sold in the vids.
It’s an interesting point though are we seeing a paradigm shift like we did in the 1970s maybe we are but at the moment I’d be super careful when we had issues with the Ktm’s they didn’t want to know or help it was only my knowledge of consumer law that got the dealer to do the right thing.
Very interesting video and discourse I wonder if that’s a wet or dry weight
We did take a look at the new cf moto but the quality and reliability of the Honda won out :) perfect for our adventures on the road.
It’ll be interesting to see how they develop the bikes going forward and think it’s really great that there’s more options coming to market :)
Interesting comments. Why did you sell the T7 for the CB500? Just curious! I have my eye on both of them.
@@verlinswarey507 hi mate I just put a vid up about it unfortunately my dad has stage 3b/4 prostate cancer and the T7 was just to tall for him my own bike has been an 1150gsa which unfortunately I’m having to sell due to us downsizing our house.
The T7 was an amazing bike for a big heavy twin on the trails a 300 rally was easier to manage but the T7 was surprising an quite easy to manage I’ve never dropped a bike on the lanes as I always stop as soon as I need to even if it’s every 200 yards so can’t comment on pickup ability.
What I didn’t like with the t7 was constant cramp in my wrist with it, the lack of wind protection on the road an tubes I think it all comes down to what your idea of adventure is as that’s so unique best thing I’d say is test ride them the engines are massively different in both character and power delivery Tenere a bit more grunty n quick the Honda compact recycling and fun. :) there’s quite a lot of wind protection on the nx500.
There’s a big difference in the manageability of them I think they both sit at different ends or sides of the adventure coin if that makes sense :)
Cheers for this, the weight is apparently wet! But too much ambiguity on their other websites to take this seriously IMHO.
I test rode the Kove recently and straight away my Taureg went up for sale - the feel of the weight difference is crazy and the engine is certainly punchy. Is it a gamble? Probably but hey, life is a gamble :) I took a gamble when I built my CRF500L and that worked out pretty well. The importer say less than 10 days to delivery, can't wait.
Congrats!
@@Motoeuro you can come down and try it when it arrives if you like
@@ascutt on my way! 👏 Cheers!
The bike arrived yesterday and the offer stands if you want to come and ride.
i think the chinese motorbikes are very tempting ! for sure they will expand dealers and parts avalability in the 'near' future otherwise it would make little sense to try and find a competitive space in the current market. in the last Paris Dakar the Kove 450 had no serious technical problems. unfotrunately the excellent ceo stepped down but i would definetly give them a try. i am in fact doubting between an himalayan 450 and another chinese brand the ctm 450. best everything.
Wait for kove 800x travel!!!!
I would wait ten years to see. Since I a too old for it, I will stick to reputable brands with the large network.
CF moto,Voge,Kove,a new era is coming,it will take 2-3 years may be to enter the market,and chinese motorbike are going to make pressure on Japanese and european brands in the near future;ratio quality/equipment vs price will impact our view .In France ,Voge ,for exemple and CF start to have many dealers ,they sell also Benelli and few other brands;chinese know how to do business,they have the will and the money to suceed!engines are KTM,BMW,Honda ,Showa ,Brembo,Bosch components will give confidence to user in term of reliability.Few years and you will be able to sale your chinese bike on the market!!
Did you see the CfMoto 800 or whatever the equivelant ? Thats a year old now and reports are good. Not the unicorn but neither is a T7...
I think it doesnt exist! But for me, reliability is so important, cheers for watching!
If it is really 25 kg lighter, it is worth gambling even if it is the same price.
Waiting for the Kove 450 ! That's the next unicorn 🦄
If only the T7 lost 50 Kilo's, but nooo, lets not listen to our customers..
So Kove 450, here we come!
Give them time to grow. You can't build up a Honda dealer network overnight. Based on the specs and the first reviews it seems they are off for a great start.
It's true. Honda didn't have a huge dealer network on day one either.
And huge networks don't necessarily mean much. You can still wait months for some parts.
Few stuff, first off weight. Koves claim is correct, but when you buy one it comes with upper crashbars and a luggage rack as standard, thats where the extra 8kg comes from on the delaers sites.
Tank is meashured by volume on official sites and rounded up, while by usage and rounded down on dealer sites. Thats why the 1L discrepency.
Parts will also be available by CF Moto dealerships as Kove 800 uses the 800MT engine.
Right now its cheap as its a new thing, less dealerships, less orders, less everything. Once they "prove" themselfs, im shure the price will baloon. So i bought mine early.
Reliabity? Engine is solid, so are the components, im only wondering about the abuse the frame will take (welds that is).
Dealerships in EU? Dont worry, i have 4 dealerships 30minutes to one hour away from my house... Also, if thers 2 dealerships per country, youre looking at no more than 2 hours to reach one. And thats really not that far now is it.
Fair play, hope it works out, very tempted!
@@Motoeuro heres the deal, when you pass trough Slovenia, say hy. Ill lend it to you for a few weeks. Wont kind, we got 3 at home alredy.
Yamahas T7 weight is 204kg full tank, even the CFMoto 450MT weighs 197kg , so realistic it will be at least 195kg, thats not even 10kg. You can easy save 10kg on the T7, and that thing is reliable. I hope That the new brands will bring some fresh ideas , but first they have to show endurance . TBH I really like the new KOVE 800 Rally version. The CFM450MT is a cheap try and no real competitors, and rides amazing, thats a more no brainer, the Kove 800 is more a gamble
Thanks for pointing out the ACTUAL weight difference between T7 and Kove 800. So easy to fall for the hype, eh?
You can buy the Kove 500X instead of 450MT.
I'd give it a couple of years before risking a Kove. However, having KYB suspension (forks, not sure if the shock is also KYB) is a big plus, as the KTM 790/890 suspension is awful. I'd still pay more for the KTM, as the low CoG is important to me.
Fair point, cheers :D
The bike is great. As far as part availability don’t worry their network is spreading, give them a break. Whether we like it or not the Chinese tiger has invaded in cars and bikes as they’ve done successfully so many years in electronics. Don’t be amazed of in some years all of us are only Chinese bike owners…😊
Oh yeah, I get that, hence my comment about Japanese bikes - they took over and my question is; Is this happening again? Personally, I feel Chinese subsidiaries and low labour costs give them a competitive edge, they’re called "the world's factory" for a reason.
The acceleration of Chinese industry is only going one way, let’s face it, a vast amount of us have Chinese made iPhones, big screen TV’s and even strong brands like KTM and Triumph are mostly Chinese / Thai made. Even the BMW 310GS.
I simply question the reliability and networks at present, in 5 years, it could be a very different story. Cheers for commenting :D
I am considering this bike to step up from an indestructible 2006 v-strom 650 (thst I will NEVER sell).
Considering the Transalp and Africa Twin also.
But before I make a decision, I want to have some more info on long term owners of the Kove. I am specially worried about camshaft premature wear, considering the problems KTM is having (and the Kove engine is derived from the KTM).
I expect to get at least 6 years and 70,000 miles from a bike, so the cheaper price of the Kove is not that meaningful if it is a maintenance money pit.
It is a definite no go until there is a confirmed fix for 790/890/901 camshaft issue. For me the Kove 450 Rally seems the unicorn. CF Moto 450MT also interesting and I test rode it, but why did they make it so heavy. It is still lighter and more nimble than any competiting twin, so it will be a big hit anyway.
Heavier, surely, because it’s a twin? But twins are easier to get through compliance to anti-pollution requirements. Maybe there will be more twins replacing singles from the big manufacturers before the ‘battery only’ legal brick wall happens.
It's not the same engine, they increase the oil pressure to solve the camshaft issue
After risking your luck with an Aprilia (I made the same mistake last year), are you sure you want to repeat the same gamble with a unknown Chinese motorcycle? I'm back on a Japanese one, Suzuki at the moment.
Not for me. Its tempting but I will wait until late '25 when more reviews are out from REAL riders not journalists.
@@Motoeuro I would like to point out that I have nothing against Chinese bikes, I also owned a CFMoto 800MT and it actually ran quite well, sold a few months ago . I will probably buy another one, 450MT, as a second bike for offroad use.
However, there are motorcycle industries with consolidated experience and collaborations with Western companies. Not Kove at the moment, it is just a beautiful hope but without guarantees of an adequate sales network, assistance, spare parts, reliability, etc...
@walbeit Kove vs. Aprilia tuareg hmm that's interesting.. so please let us know why tuareg let you down.. what happened so now you saying " mistake I did "?
@@Pablito-d8g The Aprila Tuareg had all the features I was looking for in a motorcycle for off-road use: adequate engine, weight, dimensions. Unfortunately it also had some defects that were unacceptable to me: a modern engine shouldn't consume oil (and it consumed a lot), it had the worst gearbox I've ever driven, it really heated up too much.
Maybe Kove is better, maybe worse, I don't know, we'll probably only find out in 10 years or more. At the moment I preferred to return to a more reassuring Japanese bike.
Think about where and how they saved the weight! First rutt, your bending the frame!!
The Yamaha is worth more than the £1500 premium. Resale value, a proven product and the immense dealer backup. No contest really
except it is tall, heavy, expensive and only makes 70hp... otherwise I agree.
@@actstuntcam Why would anyone need more than 70bhp for its intended use?. Yamaha cant please every single customer.
@@johna6968 70hp is a bit lame for a road bike. My Africa Twin has 90hp and that is pretty lame AND that 90hp isn't a hindrance off-road - although its weight is - I never find myself in the dirt going "If only this bike made LESS power!"
@@actstuntcamthe kove only makes 80 and is heavier than advertised
@@appymarley But is still the lightest in class and makes more power than the T7.
Not sure about that one. You usually get what you pay for...I learnt that the hard way with my beautiful, Chinese-made Italien lady. Loved the looks of that Benelli. Yes, some parts did not work that great, but that can happen with any bike from any company (made on a Monday or something like that. Even if the rear brake is stuck, which is not funny.)
But as I decided I wanted to customize the seat and therefore had to strip it...oh boy. The plastic sheet was paper-thin. It broke on several spots when I pulled out the staples. Had to patch it up with some resin, which made it stronger.
Then I started thinking "what might lurk beneath this thin shell? Do I really want to find out?". No, I traded this bike on the first occassion - against a Yamaha. Boy was I glad.
That thing with a workshop was a whole other thing. It was...difficult (nowadays it is no problem, as my daughter is about to become a mechanic. She did several internships at motorcycle dealers - Yamaha mostly). But still, I will happily stick with my Yam.
One aspect my husband mentioned that I rode that Benelli only when we took a tour together. Never alone (somehow I unconsciously could no trust this bike). Not so with the Yamaha.
But it is up to you if you want to try that Kove. Sure looks nice - but IMO the Ténéré looks even nicer. And admit it, this is what you really want. You keep mentioning it again and again. Maybe it is time to fulfill that desire.
And there we have it. To me it’s a tempting package, but my head says ‘don’t be silly’ - A T7 or TA will not let you down!
@@Motoeuro Right. And I mean...that magic reduction of weight must happen somewhere. It could mean they used space or magic material at some spots. But then the bike should be more expensive? Or...they might have exchanged metal for plastics, or a bar here and there is thinner. Which would not be great on any bike, let alone an adventure bike. You do some cross-country tours. Which means taking some luggage with you, and sometimes a little more extreme offroad. So, more stress on the parts. Sure, any bike can break. But what I saw in your videos, you mostly know what you are doing and what you can do to a bike. But what if the bike cannot take the usual shenanigans because it is made weaker? Have fun finding a shop that can quickly fix it!
MCN weighed it at 195kg (brimmed plus crash bars as standard), still about 10kg less than the T7 (without crash bars)
And a lower centre of gravity, which is very important...
Mine with full tank doesn't arrive at 191kg
Pity there are limited dealerships in Europe. In Holland we only have one. Lot of people may think twice before buying a Chinese bike.
Can you get parts ???
Sat on one and it felt light and fun, but the ktm 790 is a hell noo for me!!! Maybe with a 10 year full warrant 🤣
It's great to have another player in the market but the t7 can be had for under list price a Tuareg is 9k the kove is being sold on its light weight but has been on the scales and is heavier than advertised and therefore I can't see what it offers .. happy to be proven wrong mate has a 450 rally and it's excellent but was surprised the ceo and passion behind the brand stepped down
The unicorn will be a tuareg with yamaha reliability! Fin.
100%
in your comparison ,you forgot the full KYB suspensions, the tubeless Pirelli, the bosch brine, the tisko brakes & extras. if it was Japanese will cost over 15.000€
I'd buy one, if i had a dealer within an hours drive. I had an AJP for awhile. The nearest dealer was literally 1000 miles away. I had to have the bike transported there, and back, to have a warranty item taken care of. Shan't do that again.
Yeah, thats a massive issue for me. Especially as I can’t use a spanner!
Hay mate Paul from Australia, we don’t even have a Kova importer ! , so NO dealers at all . CF Moto is quite large in Australia and been here for some years now . BUT I would not buy a new Chinese ADV 3:38 bike ( like a 450 MT ) as resale value would be crap and buying new your still supporting “ the Chinese war machine “ , I personally have nothing against the people. BUT also they ripe off all the tech and designs. At the Royal Enfield- like the 650 and new 450 Himalayan are SO original in design. Yes would support Indian economy but NOT Chinese with a new bike . YES and I know about a lot of stuff we use is made in China BUT I always buy non Chinese made goods if I can , Australia first , then European, American, other Asian countries. “ so i practice what I preach . I have a Moto Guzzi V85tt , - Italian, a Honda CRF 300 Rally - made in Thailand , a Suzuki SV 650 made in Japan and a old Kawasaki Super Shepa 250 - made in Japan. Anyway that’s my take on the Chinese thing , and yes I agree there bikes are becoming very good , But I will stay away .
I hear ya. I tried my best to stay off geo-politics etc., but it is a worthy consideration. Thanks for your honest comment.
@@Motoeuro politics is everywhere, pretending that it isn't is missing out an important part of life...and motorcycling
@@Motoeuro no worries, I always enjoy your channel and honest opinion 👍
@@carpe_via still plenty off great non - Chinese bikes on the market.
@@itsallabouttheridekeepingi4449 I agree. Although I wasn’t advocating against Chinese bikes. Awareness of the situation is what I am advocating for.
I always wonder, if they can't even get the specs on the website straigt, what else are they messing up? Obviously it's not the engineer making the website, but it's about the mindset the company is in.
The bike has been weight by an independant magazine at 193kg fully fueled. That's barely more than 10kgs less than a T7. From an engineering standpoint, that's quite a lot, considering the bikes are pretty comparable, with the Kove having more power and therefore also bigger cooling system and so on.
Dealer network doesn't bother me personally, I can take care of everything short of reprogramming the ECU. But still, the reliability is a big question.
I've gone with the T7 Extreme. It does everything I need it to do and I don't need to waste a single thought about reliability. I just know it just works. Also as a semi-pro rider, I don't want or need TC and rider modes, I want something that behaves consistent and doesn't need any attention. The T7 gives me that.
In my opinion that's well worth the premium in price.
Yeah, agreed.
I agree that the lack of rider aides is a major bonus and not having them worth something - however, they could have put some quality suspension on it. Yamaha always over charge for their bikes though.
The true cost of ownership depends on your buying pattern. If you change every 3 years I’d stick with the usual suspects plus the dealer support is certainly an issue. As a KTM dealer said to me recently, the PCP payments per month will flush out residuals. On the other hand, this bike seems to have a lot more (or less by 20/25kg) to offer. The Chinese are beating the West on spec and price, not innovating like the Japanese who took on the lazy, complacent European/British/Americans on and wiped the floor with us/them. As a potential buyer and older (and maybe wiser) weight is becoming more the issue. I’ve gone from GSA to 701 Husky in 4 steps and love the low weight and skinny profile. The Kove might just coax me back a bit with some creature comforts.
who makes the motor ?
Its a KTM 790 ADV R lump.
@@Motoeuro I mean that the company that makes the engine manufacture 2 million units pr year, and they did it for many many years, a proven and reliable manufacturer.
Dealer networks don't bother me - if the machine is of proven reliability. Which we don't have here. I see two types of buyers mainly. Those that are pinched for funds and can't really afford the main brands; and folks with plenty of funds (and other bikes in the garage) that can absorb the risk if the bike (or company) turns out to be a stinker. Myself, I like to look, but my CB1100 (and the AC in the car) have spoiled me to the extent I'm pretty much out of the market. Now if I won the lottery, oh hell, I'd buy an airplane! LOL
Ha ha! Love it!!! Learjet are on the other line.....
CF Moto has a 4/5 year warranty I think not sure about kove
I've never gambled more than a tenner - let some high rollers take the risk until it's a proven product.
So, I’ll keep my Tenere for now, thanks..
somebody start talking about the KOVE 800 X RALLY alreadyyyyyyyyyyyy
So,buy one and do a long term test.not just theory...
Ha ha! If they lend me one......
Reliability and engine characteristics is the most important to me. And when Yamaha launched the Rally Edition in 2020 this model RevedMyHeart 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
In the meantime there is a lot of after market parts and options available for the T7 and just in case nobody is going to support Kove bikes in the near future, who knows what will going to happen.
On the other side it may offer a chance to new gear companies to grow with Kove but only in case the manufacturer can keep their promise and the confidence of the buyers.
Time will tell.
P.S.
I just checked the Owners/Maintenance Manual and found some interresting details:
a) Cellphone screen projection navigation display. Once you have set up the navigation settings in the app, you can enable the cellphone screen projection navigation display.
b) Engine oil & filter replacement every 5.000 km / 1 year
3.0 L with filter change, 2.8 L without filter
c) break fluid replacement every 1 year
d) fuel pipe and filter replacement every 1 year
e) valve clearance inspection every 20.000 km / 2 years
f) 3-mode OFF-ROAD ABS with rear ABS OFF possibility
Hang on... Valves every 2 years? Thats going to be expensive!
You didn't mention it only has 18 months warranty 🤔
Really? Yikes. Not a comfort!
@@Motoeuro especially when CFmoto offer 4 years in the UK
T7 owner here. Tempting stats, not re power but re weight savings. Styling of Kove 800 is horrendous in my personal, limited and biased opinion. I can't ride ugly bikes.
T7 still gets my cash
Chinese maschines still need to improve a lot in terms of real (not apparent) quality.
Too bad we don't have kove 800 here in Indonesia, we only have cfmoto 450mt
CF Moto 450 MT looking mighty fine!
And I am old enough to remember the “Japanese bikes are all rubbish” mantra, and the British manufacturers taking apart a Honda 50cc DOHC single cylinder (over-the-counter) racer and saying in the British M/C press, “we couldn’t even make that in this country”.
The Single cylinder unicorn was made by Honda in 1988...
The dual cylinder unicorn a couple of years earlier...
Too soon to dive into unknown territory. Give it time. Let it be tried and tested..
This was intersting until the mention of a KTM engine, Strange that I'd rather have a Chinese bike than a KTM isn't it.
I’m not sure KTM supply chains are that good. I’ve said elsewhere a friend had to wait 13 months for a new tank for his MV. No bike for 13 months. A disaster. Other testers have said that the engine does NOT feel like a KTM engine, so there’s likely some differences. But for me no bike over 300cc is a temptation..
Costly gamble, who knows how long Kove will be around. At least CFMOTO has been around for decades.
You forgot to mention tubeless wheels
Yeah and the crash bars pre-fitted and good brakes too!
I recently bought a really clever Chinese action cam, like Kove price and spec beat the market but to use it I had to sign my life (phone) away.
I know this sounds daft but beware of spies hiding in tempting tech.
Chinese bikes are not necessarily a good choice now. But my god the path they are on, give them 5-10 years (maybe less) and then see.
I think lots of these bikes from China are the same companies building the KTM’s . Not confidence inspiring to me.
good point
you Islanders are late to the party they are roaming Europe for few months already ;
I was comparing xl750 to kove and damn. Honda comes overpriced for what it is.
Kove seemed have better build quality. Transalp different gaps in the plastic panels, rust within 3 months of ownership. Come on Honda.....
Honda build crap now! Their bikes are boring and the Transalp looks like a budget bike, but costs $20K. I'd buy the T7 over the Honda.
Kove’s been engaged in shady marketing regarding curb weights since the announcement of their 450. Someone knowledgeable in kove bikes posted that their claimed curb weights at eicma and on the global site are for zero petrol in the tank for the 450, and just a few liters in the tank for the 800x. This why the european sites show significantly larger curb weights. Thats just shady for a brand that should be trying to build trust.
YIKES! A little cheeky, trust in your bike and brand is so important. Cheers for watching
Big gamble chineseium don’t last
Regardless of the cost saving - £1500+ is a lot of fuel to get you places - the 25kg weight saving, if accurate, is invaluable. You’re getting a bike that is twice as powerful for the same, if not less, weight than many of the 300-500cc class - Himalayan, 450MT, G310GS, etc. However, the KTM 790 engine is one riddled in controversy at the moment, and this might be Kove’s Achilles heel, how many trust that engine and the now notorious camshaft wear? Is it a gamble, well yes, but any less of a gamble than those that bought the 411 Himalayan when it first came out? Maybe, just because it’s £8.5k and not a more palatable £4k.
As a Tiger 800 owner in the US it has caught my attention .In my 30's and 40's I would have checked the specs and the reviews but in my 60's I have a problem with Chinese products and politics . I do my best to avoid as many Chinese products as possible which isn't easy . It's just who I am .
I thought I felt the same way, but look at South Korea and Hyundai/Kia. Same boat years ago and Americans took a chance and we helped transform that country with our purchases. The same could be said for China- maybe we need to give them a chance?
And never apologies for that. I deliberately stayed off geo-politics as this video would have gone on forever. It’s a consideration that will mean a lot to many people. Thanks :D
Well i stick to my t7
I’ve been waiting nearly 3 months here in OZ for replacement camshafts on my Tiger 1200 RP 🥲
Really??? Christ!!!🥲
@@Motoeuro Lucky I’ve got another bike ffs 😩
What country are you living in, please? I work 200 meters from a danish dealer of Triumph, maybe i can help you there??