Hi Tim and thanks for a wonderful presentation. I designed and built such a vertical antenna myself (based on a maximum 3/4 wavelength long on 10m) and never knew it had a formal name..."Rybakov!" Mine is an aluminum flagpole that is isolated from ground and has 16 total radials, 30 feet long each. The number and length of the radials is based upon extensive research into radial system efficiency vs. total number and length, as published in QST magazine (ARRL). In short, the fewer number of radials one has, the shorter they can be to maintain high efficiency. Somewhere around 12 - 16 radials is the point of diminishing returns - adding another 75 radials will give me a mere +1 dB in additional gain. Hardly worth it. I would like to comment on a few of your statements. The first is the discussion of feed line losses. If one runs a 50 ohm feed to a 1/4 wave ground mounted vertical, the typical SWR will be ~ 1.5:1, as the impedance at resonance is not 50 ohms. On the contrary, if one places a remote antenna tuner right at the base of the vertical (where it BELONGS for best performance), it is not uncommon to obtain a match that is even better than 1.5:1 - my typical match ranges from 1.1 - 1.3:1 - nearly flat. In this case, feed line losses for the "Rybakov" antenna will actually be LESS than they are for a 1/4 wave vertical. So let's just say there is parity between the two antennas for feed line losses. Along the same lines is your estimation of tuner losses. Trust me, they are not even close to 2 dB! I run 1 kW into my system, and if I were losing 2 dB of power in the tuner, the inductors would get as hot as branding iron...but they don't. All remote tuners that I know of utilize "L networks" to match to the load, as and we know, L networks are considered to be very efficient impedance transformers - if low loss components are used. I'd estimate average tuner losses to be closer to 1 dB. A 4:1 current balun is not needed for this antenna, and in fact is the wrong application for such a device. ASSUMING the remote tuner is a single-ended device (all the ones I know of are), it is already configured to tune an UNbalanced load, which is what the Rybakov antenna is. Trying to force equal currents into such a non-resonant, unbalanced antenna is asking for enormous power losses in the balun. If one has an inferior tuner that cannot tune the antenna directly, a 4:1 UNun (unbalanced to unbalanced) is what transformer manufacturers are providing for those who tune a vertical monopole on many bands. In my experience, any decent remote tuner out there (MFJ, LDG, SGC) will all tune a 24 foot tall vertical on 40m with ease. Adding an additional unun is just introducing an additional loss element that is UNnecessary! (Get the pun??? ) :-) My SGC tuner is capable of tuning my vertical on the upper half of 80m without a 4:1 unun. Below 3,800 kHz the impedance is outside the range of the tuner. A 4:1 unun would cure that problem. My LDG tuner, however - has slightly more inductance and will tune the entire 80 m band without difficulty, so no need for an additional 4:1 unun. In summary, the "Rybakov" antenna is a really great DX performer. Extensive, controlled testing using WSPR reveals that this vertical typically outperforms my end-fed half-wave wire (35 feet high) anywhere from +3 to a whopping +18 dB on some DX paths, on all bands 40m - 10m. 73 and good DX, Dennis, W1LJ Prescott, Arizona, USA Former Technical Editor, ARRL - QST Magazine, ARRL Radio Amateur 's Handbook, ARRL Antenna Book.
Fabulous observations Dennis and some real food for thought. My instincts are to use an atu right at the base and many radials. The pattern especially on 12 and 10 looks promising. Appreciate you stopping by and commenting 73
Tim, when I run coax thru my vehicle window during bad weather, I use a piece of black foam water pipe insulation on the window glass. It allows for coax pass thru while keeping the weather outside the vehicle. Just rsise the window to seal weather out and the coax isn't pinched. (A "swim pool noodle" also works but its a bit stiffer and bigger in diameter.)
Hi Tim thanks for the very detailed video. I built mine last week. The tip is approx 9m above the ground hanging in a tree with 6x 5m radials. Utterly blown away. I managed a QSO on 10W into Germany on 10m band (55 both ways) 9850km from my QTH. Happy new Year. Best 73 ZS6AKW.
The Rkbakov antenna was sold in the UK as Pro Whip. I used the 7M one as he also had the 10M and the Delta Loop as well. The antenna was simple. Balun, 7M positive cable and one negative at 5 or so metre length. Worked Japan using RTTY with it, got some good Inter G and PSK31 into Texas as one point. On paper it does not work well but place some radials on it and you get a better SWR. I used one more when it was active and got some good results on 10M FM into Germany. Even managed to get local 80M with it but the SWR was skittish and had to be very low and the null point of the SWR was hares breath in tuning. But if you do use it try the 10M vertical of it and see how it fares with a 4:1 unun and a 9:1 unun overall as a normal BalUn would not work well with this,
Hello Tim. Thank you for the video's on your channel. I have set up the Rybakov antenna last week on my holiday adress in the south west of the Netherlands. A spiderbeam, 7.6 mtr speaker wire and 18 radials each 3 meters long. Connect it with about 10 mtr rg 58 and a homebrew 9:1 unun. It works great. I've had contacts over a 11000 kilometer without any problem. Running 100 watts ft891 and mat 30 tuner. Great antenna. Specialy on 15 and 10 meters. Thanks and 73. Pa7kcc. Hans.
I'm putting up the Zero5 27 ft HOA. It comes with the 4:1 unun. Essentially a rugged Rybakov. I have the 300 watt MFJ remote ATU to leverage that option. Great presentation on gains and losses. Thanks.
I first watched the Rybakov antenna video on the Coastal Waves & Wires channel. I am intrigued by this antenna so much so that I have ordered a 4:1 UNUN, and a DX Commander 10 meter pole to help me get back on the air. I operate mostly mobile & portable but now have a ham shack that has a limited yard space out back where my G5RV dipole won't fit. So this is a viable option for my station. Thanks for the info... 73 's de kd5smf
Did you know that EZNEC Pro ver 7 It’s now available for free the owner has retired and has graciously offered it up at no cost when it used to be $100
Nice vid Tim, I actually built one yesterday on my day off... I used an old CB 5/8 wave telescopic aluminium vertical for most of the vertical element with the addition of another section of aluminium from another old antenna to make up the 25ft radiator... I used a homebrew 4:1 UNUN at the feedpoint and the earth system is a few buried radials and an earth rod... not the most efficient earth but small garden and needs must... long story short the antenna tunes up easily on all bands from 40m to 10 using an old manual MFJ tuner, I didn't get alot of time with it yet but I managed a few contacts on 40 SSB with my TS480HX and 150w and I got 5/9s from Greece, Ukraine and the Canary islands, so its definitely working and I'm looking forward to trying it on the higher bands hopefully at the weekend... its the only antenna I have up at the moment with all the windy weather and is very easy to take down if necessary so I'll spend a decent bit of time with it weather permitting 🙂
amazing video tim, you make learning these technicalities such simplicty as they are so well explained. Thank you so much for the excellent education !
I looked at the Rybakov because I want to be nimble in getting between the higher bands as the propagation changes but I suspect there is a better solution to be had based on tapped matching coils. All these systems which depend on toroidal transformers to bring the mismatch within range of an ATU are just so lossy. 2dB loss is not a wild estimate at all.
Yep - point taken Stuart. I think that the size of it is purely down to gaining 40m into the mix. I think somewhere around 4.5 metres long would do ok too on the higher bands as a stealth version. I know you (like I) really rate EFHW especially portable and their lack of need for radials and harmonic band switching is a big plus. 73
The Rybakov has one other benefit over a 1/4 vertical you didn't mention. Because the radiation resistance is higher it is inherently more efficient against real world ground losses or against a shortened radiator with a loading coil.
My first HF antenna when I got licensed was the M0CVO Magitenna which is pretty much the same design. 7.6m fed with a 4:1. I never liked it any much, and it didn't perform well at all. Looking at this video I'm thinking about finding it in some random box in the basement and give it another chance, perhaps with proper radials this time. Thanks for the video!
I tried this antenna after it was recommended for my limited space, but found it picked up so much noise it was unworkable. I have seen lots of operators using it with really good results.
Hi Tim, any chance we could get some of these antenna comparisons in practice instead of just the modelling? Real world comparisons can sometimes be surprising and, the builds would be interesting!
Never thought about using a 4:1 as opposed to the 9:1 in the original. Must try it and if anyone needs to know it the Rybakov gets its name from the Russian for 'fisherman'
Hey Tim i cannot thank you enough buddy and of course Walt we had a terrible storm new year and it ripped my beam apart I have just built this thing and it takes 5 minutes to put up and less to take down it is in the middle of my small garden on a pedestal i use for a parasol in summer I will do a video for you this morning I worked the grey line on ft8 20m band and broken the record set by my beam 11869 miles into ZL man if im ever youre way a few beers are heading your way cheers Brian 2e0ilf
Great video, thanks. I am looking for the best vertical for 20 to 10 without an external tuner, just the 7300 inbuilt and a choke. Will be operating on island beaches. Tia 73
Hi Tim, very interesting presentation. I just like to say for those new to the hobby, that All ants , even ants with high swr and losses can still get you dx with a tuner in line, I wouldn't like to think people were put off calling CQ if their ant wasn't perfect or had losses. Last evening I noticed 30m was open, but my 40m vertical on 30m, swr was off the scale, but put the tuner in line and managed to work Norway from zl, so not the perfect setup , but good propagation overcome my poor setup. Obviously my bad swr and high losses were not such a worry, when chasing dx with good propagation. Always try to set things up right, but sometimes, just give it a go. Keep up the good work Tim, 73 zl3xdj
Great article. How does this differ from the antenna marketed by Comet. I believe that is the Comet 250? This is supposed to work from 2-30 MHz? If you put it up on a 10 foot high pole and feed it through a 8 foot long coil of RG-11 coax cable and connect it to a MFJ remote automatic antenna tuner immediately below it on the pole , it should work quite well. Any thoughts? The Comet 250 is about 23 feet long and has a balun at the bottom and no radials. W9LGH
It will work but in all honesty you’d need radials to improve its efficiency. Moreover, as it’ll be a non resonant elevated vertical make sure your choke is VERY high impedance across as many bands as possible, as you’ll probably have some common mode on the coax run owing to the mismatch
Hi Tim, regard your next video , salt water etc I've just done that test practically with a vertical near the sea and then 40m away, then with a ground tuning unit and then with a few radials, so I will be really interested in your results. Cheers zl3xdj
This design looks like a real winner on 15m and a above. Personally the need for a tuner & radials would put me off using it in my /P setup. Are you intending to try it out in the field at some point Tim?
I build a short version of this antenna, which is working outstanding on 10 and 12m, without any need of a tuner. SWR 1:1,5 on both bands. Also 15 and 17m is an option, then with the internal tuner of my Flex 6400M. Length is only 2,6m, no Radials!, 1:4 UnUn, 2m RG58 Coax from Feedpoint, then a choke Balun and further RG58 to the shack. That‘s it. 73‘
Yes but its still 2mm wider and I would rather pinch a bit of cheaper RG58 with a door or window than a nice bit of Aircell 7! The loss difference on an 8ft (2.4m) run is pretty minimal in this instance. Although I share your view on Aircell 7 as its a very nice grade of coax indeed. 73
Thanks for a great video. Good content and well presented. I look forward to your thoughts on setting up your station by the sea. I have had great results with a 1/4 wave vertical with lots of radials on wet sand, really close to the water, including a 57 report from Costa Rica for my 3w station. What I am unclear on is how quickly the benefits drop off with distance from the water. Is there still a significant benefit half a mile from the coast, or from the top of a sea cliff? There doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there and it isn't something that's easy to model. 73 MW0KXN
Kevin thank you. You are so right. I’ve found info about right by the sea… info about average ground and poor ground, but nothing about being 20,100,1000 metres from the shore (on average). I’m looking into this as I type.
Hi Tim Bit late on commenting... I have a very small garden/yard 4.5M by 6.0M So I have been looking at Verticals. I already have a remote ATU available. If I put the ATU @ 1M from 4:1 Balun, is it O.K to put the 1:1 choke balun just before ATU..? I I I Vertical Wire I I I- [ 4:1 BALUN ]o=== 1M Coax ===o [ Remote ATU ]o=== 1M Coax ===o[ 1:1 Choke ]o======== // 20M Coax //=======o [ RADIO ]
Hi Dave it should be ok. The short coax between the 4:1 and tuner will alter the impedance but it should work. Remember the radials too .. about a total of 40 or 50m worth is fine for 20m and upwards. Maybe double that to help 40m where the antenna is more of a compromise. 73
I think I’ll give this a go and compare with my DX Commander - I have a Diamond BB7V (22 ft) from my early radio days - it’s a dummy load!! and rob the Balun from a Delta Loop experiment!! Mount a couple of feet up and trail some wire to get the 25 ft of length!! Could be a fun comparison!!! If it works I’ll have found a use for the well built but v v poor Diamond.
@@timg5tm941 Ok - I've had time to give it a go!! I had a 9:1 UnUn and mounted it on the BB7V (having removed the dummy load resistors!! transformer it comes with). I compared with my 40/20m loft dipoles and DX Commander lite 1/4 wave. The results - excellent!! I can tune (with LDG 600) 80m - 15m easily!! 80m is going to be quite inefficient, but I've tested 40 and 20 and had great reports (running 200w). For me the advantage is I can easily collapse the antenna which will keep the fam happy in the garden during the summer. The DX commander can come back out in the autumn!! I'll build a 4:1 UnUn when I have a mo and see which gives me the best tune. Great idea Tim - Thanks!!
9:1 possibly so. I chose the 4:1 as this seems to be the preferred option from manufacturers. 16:1.. only issue I see there is reducing the impedance down so low that even an atu at the feedpoint might struggle to tune it. 73
Why 7.6mtrs ? Why not make a 7.5mtr or 7.4 mtrs , what lenght gives better swr ? A 7.5 mtr , no balun is a 30 mtr 1/4wave , why dont u ever mention 30 mtr ? What if u ONLY want it for 20 to 10 mtrs , what lenght is best?
7.6 is the sweet spot between avoiding 1/2 wave on 15/17, not being too long on 10 and being just about long enough to be respectable on 40. For 20-10 if you want shorter try 7m long
Just worth saying, my 'emergency antenna' when everything else isn't playing ball, is a 9:1 feeding 10 metres of vertical, with 16 radials. Just tuning it in the shack, it has worked a fair bit of DX. Is it a powerful signal? Not really. Does it get out? Yes, it can. On remote ATUs, my MFJs have been the font of all disappointment, working brilliantly one moment, and not even at all the next. They're fickle. Incredibly fickle.
Hi Tim and thanks for a wonderful presentation. I designed and built such a vertical antenna myself (based on a maximum 3/4 wavelength long on 10m) and never knew it had a formal name..."Rybakov!" Mine is an aluminum flagpole that is isolated from ground and has 16 total radials, 30 feet long each. The number and length of the radials is based upon extensive research into radial system efficiency vs. total number and length, as published in QST magazine (ARRL). In short, the fewer number of radials one has, the shorter they can be to maintain high efficiency. Somewhere around 12 - 16 radials is the point of diminishing returns - adding another 75 radials will give me a mere +1 dB in additional gain. Hardly worth it.
I would like to comment on a few of your statements. The first is the discussion of feed line losses. If one runs a 50 ohm feed to a 1/4 wave ground mounted vertical, the typical SWR will be ~ 1.5:1, as the impedance at resonance is not 50 ohms. On the contrary, if one places a remote antenna tuner right at the base of the vertical (where it BELONGS for best performance), it is not uncommon to obtain a match that is even better than 1.5:1 - my typical match ranges from 1.1 - 1.3:1 - nearly flat. In this case, feed line losses for the "Rybakov" antenna will actually be LESS than they are for a 1/4 wave vertical. So let's just say there is parity between the two antennas for feed line losses.
Along the same lines is your estimation of tuner losses. Trust me, they are not even close to 2 dB! I run 1 kW into my system, and if I were losing 2 dB of power in the tuner, the inductors would get as hot as branding iron...but they don't. All remote tuners that I know of utilize "L networks" to match to the load, as and we know, L networks are considered to be very efficient impedance transformers - if low loss components are used. I'd estimate average tuner losses to be closer to 1 dB.
A 4:1 current balun is not needed for this antenna, and in fact is the wrong application for such a device. ASSUMING the remote tuner is a single-ended device (all the ones I know of are), it is already configured to tune an UNbalanced load, which is what the Rybakov antenna is. Trying to force equal currents into such a non-resonant, unbalanced antenna is asking for enormous power losses in the balun. If one has an inferior tuner that cannot tune the antenna directly, a 4:1 UNun (unbalanced to unbalanced) is what transformer manufacturers are providing for those who tune a vertical monopole on many bands. In my experience, any decent remote tuner out there (MFJ, LDG, SGC) will all tune a 24 foot tall vertical on 40m with ease. Adding an additional unun is just introducing an additional loss element that is UNnecessary! (Get the pun??? ) :-)
My SGC tuner is capable of tuning my vertical on the upper half of 80m without a 4:1 unun. Below 3,800 kHz the impedance is outside the range of the tuner. A 4:1 unun would cure that problem. My LDG tuner, however - has slightly more inductance and will tune the entire 80 m band without difficulty, so no need for an additional 4:1 unun.
In summary, the "Rybakov" antenna is a really great DX performer. Extensive, controlled testing using WSPR reveals that this vertical typically outperforms my end-fed half-wave wire (35 feet high) anywhere from +3 to a whopping +18 dB on some DX paths, on all bands 40m - 10m.
73 and good DX,
Dennis, W1LJ
Prescott, Arizona, USA
Former Technical Editor, ARRL - QST Magazine, ARRL Radio Amateur 's Handbook, ARRL Antenna Book.
Fabulous observations Dennis and some real food for thought. My instincts are to use an atu right at the base and many radials. The pattern especially on 12 and 10 looks promising. Appreciate you stopping by and commenting 73
Tim, when I run coax thru my vehicle window during bad weather, I use a piece of black foam water pipe insulation on the window glass. It allows for coax pass thru while keeping the weather outside the vehicle. Just rsise the window to seal weather out and the coax isn't pinched. (A "swim pool noodle" also works but its a bit stiffer and bigger in diameter.)
Good idea!
Hi Tim thanks for the very detailed video. I built mine last week. The tip is approx 9m above the ground hanging in a tree with 6x 5m radials. Utterly blown away. I managed a QSO on 10W into Germany on 10m band (55 both ways) 9850km from my QTH. Happy new Year. Best 73 ZS6AKW.
Nice work! And happy new year!
The Rkbakov antenna was sold in the UK as Pro Whip. I used the 7M one as he also had the 10M and the Delta Loop as well. The antenna was simple. Balun, 7M positive cable and one negative at 5 or so metre length. Worked Japan using RTTY with it, got some good Inter G and PSK31 into Texas as one point. On paper it does not work well but place some radials on it and you get a better SWR. I used one more when it was active and got some good results on 10M FM into Germany. Even managed to get local 80M with it but the SWR was skittish and had to be very low and the null point of the SWR was hares breath in tuning. But if you do use it try the 10M vertical of it and see how it fares with a 4:1 unun and a 9:1 unun overall as a normal BalUn would not work well with this,
Hello Tim. Thank you for the video's on your channel. I have set up the Rybakov antenna last week on my holiday adress in the south west of the Netherlands. A spiderbeam, 7.6 mtr speaker wire and 18 radials each 3 meters long. Connect it with about 10 mtr rg 58 and a homebrew 9:1 unun.
It works great. I've had contacts over a 11000 kilometer without any problem. Running 100 watts ft891 and mat 30 tuner. Great antenna. Specialy on 15 and 10 meters. Thanks and 73. Pa7kcc. Hans.
Fabulous Hans!
I'm putting up the Zero5 27 ft HOA. It comes with the 4:1 unun. Essentially a rugged Rybakov. I have the 300 watt MFJ remote ATU to leverage that option. Great presentation on gains and losses. Thanks.
Sounds great!
I first watched the Rybakov antenna video on the Coastal Waves & Wires channel. I am intrigued by this antenna so much so that I have ordered a 4:1 UNUN, and a DX Commander 10 meter pole to help me get back on the air. I operate mostly mobile & portable but now have a ham shack that has a limited yard space out back where my G5RV dipole won't fit. So this is a viable option for my station. Thanks for the info... 73 's de kd5smf
Enjoy the antenna!
Did you know that EZNEC Pro ver 7 It’s now available for free the owner has retired and has graciously offered it up at no cost when it used to be $100
Indeed! I might start to have a play with that later in the year
Nice vid Tim, I actually built one yesterday on my day off... I used an old CB 5/8 wave telescopic aluminium vertical for most of the vertical element with the addition of another section of aluminium from another old antenna to make up the 25ft radiator... I used a homebrew 4:1 UNUN at the feedpoint and the earth system is a few buried radials and an earth rod... not the most efficient earth but small garden and needs must... long story short the antenna tunes up easily on all bands from 40m to 10 using an old manual MFJ tuner, I didn't get alot of time with it yet but I managed a few contacts on 40 SSB with my TS480HX and 150w and I got 5/9s from Greece, Ukraine and the Canary islands, so its definitely working and I'm looking forward to trying it on the higher bands hopefully at the weekend... its the only antenna I have up at the moment with all the windy weather and is very easy to take down if necessary so I'll spend a decent bit of time with it weather permitting 🙂
Dave sounds promising. Hopefully the bands will open up too 73
I’m assembling - and hope to compare a rybakov vs a same length vertical w an adjustable tap coil a few feet up.
Amazing. I learn about new antennas each day! This looks like something I will definitely try out sometime!
Nice one!
Lots of rather dry material, but I hung in there and appreciate your excellent presentation. Sunspots are our friends.
Indeed 👍
amazing video tim, you make learning these technicalities such simplicty as they are so well explained. Thank you so much for the excellent education !
My pleasure Al and I appreciate your support 73
I looked at the Rybakov because I want to be nimble in getting between the higher bands as the propagation changes but I suspect there is a better solution to be had based on tapped matching coils. All these systems which depend on toroidal transformers to bring the mismatch within range of an ATU are just so lossy. 2dB loss is not a wild estimate at all.
Yep - point taken Stuart. I think that the size of it is purely down to gaining 40m into the mix. I think somewhere around 4.5 metres long would do ok too on the higher bands as a stealth version. I know you (like I) really rate EFHW especially portable and their lack of need for radials and harmonic band switching is a big plus. 73
The Rybakov has one other benefit over a 1/4 vertical you didn't mention. Because the radiation resistance is higher it is inherently more efficient against real world ground losses or against a shortened radiator with a loading coil.
Excellent point.
Tim. If you put the remote ATU next to the feedpoint you will not need the 4:1 unun and losses near zero.
Yep agree just more expensive
My first HF antenna when I got licensed was the M0CVO Magitenna which is pretty much the same design. 7.6m fed with a 4:1. I never liked it any much, and it didn't perform well at all. Looking at this video I'm thinking about finding it in some random box in the basement and give it another chance, perhaps with proper radials this time. Thanks for the video!
No problem - maybe with the growing sunspots you will see the benefit of the higher bands with this antenna. 73
Running this type of antenna without any radials will result in extremely poor performance, between 2 - 4 S-units poorer than a simple dipole.
I tried this antenna after it was recommended for my limited space, but found it picked up so much noise it was unworkable. I have seen lots of operators using it with really good results.
Yes verticals are more susceptible to noise at home but can come into their own by the sea for example
Hi Tim, any chance we could get some of these antenna comparisons in practice instead of just the modelling? Real world comparisons can sometimes be surprising and, the builds would be interesting!
Tony if I had the time (60 hr working week). The weather, the day light hours then yes. There’ll be more practical stuff to come in the spring.
Tony, read my recent comments. The Rybakov easily outperforms my EFHW wire for DX paths on all bands.
Hi Tim: Do you know if that works with a 4:1 balun instead of a 4:1 unun? I thank you in advance. 73 from Brazil. Sergio, PS7CY
Unun is preferable as we are connecting an unbalanced antenna (vertical) to an unbalanced feeder (coax) 73
Never thought about using a 4:1 as opposed to the 9:1 in the original.
Must try it and if anyone needs to know it the Rybakov gets its name from the Russian for 'fisherman'
Good idea and thanks for the info!
Hi Tim, just found this video hi. Interesting ant, is it possible to get this ant on 80m and upover, say 80-20m.
Brian I think for 80 the minimum is the 43 foot non resonant vertical. Otherwise maybe a double sized Rybakov (53 ft) as an inverted L for 80-20?
Hey Tim i cannot thank you enough buddy and of course Walt we had a terrible storm new year and it ripped my beam apart I have just built this thing and it takes 5 minutes to put up and less to take down it is in the middle of my small garden on a pedestal i use for a parasol in summer I will do a video for you this morning I worked the grey line on ft8 20m band and broken the record set by my beam 11869 miles into ZL man if im ever youre way a few beers are heading your way cheers Brian 2e0ilf
Brian that’s brilliant!!!
Great video, thanks.
I am looking for the best vertical for 20 to 10 without an external tuner, just the 7300 inbuilt and a choke.
Will be operating on island beaches.
Tia 73
What are your thoughts Tim?
Haven't heard of this antenna before
Another cracking video Tim thanks for sharing.
Cheers Stuart 👍👍
Another good video Tim, keep up the good work cheers.
Thanks, will do! And thank you for stopping by 73
Hi Tim, very interesting presentation. I just like to say for those new to the hobby, that
All ants , even ants with high swr and losses can still get you dx with a tuner in line, I wouldn't like to think people were put off calling CQ if their ant wasn't perfect or had losses. Last evening I noticed 30m was open, but my 40m vertical on 30m, swr was off the scale, but put the tuner in line and managed to work Norway from zl, so not the perfect setup , but good propagation overcome my poor setup. Obviously my bad swr and high losses were not such a worry, when chasing dx with good propagation. Always try to set things up right, but sometimes, just give it a go. Keep up the good work Tim, 73 zl3xdj
Great points Brian. Paralysis by analysis is to be avoided! 73
Great article. How does this differ from the antenna marketed by Comet. I believe that is the Comet 250? This is supposed to work from 2-30 MHz? If you put it up on a 10 foot high pole and feed it through a 8 foot long coil of RG-11 coax cable and connect it to a MFJ remote automatic antenna tuner immediately below it on the pole , it should work quite well. Any thoughts? The Comet 250 is about 23 feet long and has a balun at the bottom and no radials.
W9LGH
It will work but in all honesty you’d need radials to improve its efficiency. Moreover, as it’ll be a non resonant elevated vertical make sure your choke is VERY high impedance across as many bands as possible, as you’ll probably have some common mode on the coax run owing to the mismatch
Great presentation.
Glad you liked it!
Some great research Tim 👍👏👏
Thanks mark! 73
Hi Tim, regard your next video , salt water etc I've just done that test practically with a vertical near the sea and then 40m away, then with a ground tuning unit and then with a few radials, so I will be really interested in your results. Cheers zl3xdj
What did you find with your test Brian?
This design looks like a real winner on 15m and a above. Personally the need for a tuner & radials would put me off using it in my /P setup.
Are you intending to try it out in the field at some point Tim?
Hi mate - yes definitely - around Spring time looks a good time to test one out
@@timg5tm941 Have you checked out Thomas SP9TL on UA-cam? He has had great results with the Rybakov /P with 20w
@@adyg6ad73 thanks Adrian I’ll check him out
I build a short version of this antenna, which is working outstanding on 10 and 12m, without any need of a tuner. SWR 1:1,5 on both bands. Also 15 and 17m is an option, then with the internal tuner of my Flex 6400M. Length is only 2,6m, no Radials!, 1:4 UnUn, 2m RG58 Coax from Feedpoint, then a choke Balun and further RG58 to the shack. That‘s it. 73‘
Great presentation and thought process! Thank you. 73 K5NR
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you 73
Hi Tim,
Try ultraflex 7 instead of rg 58. Should be less loss and is very flexible.
73 John DJ6JH
Yes but its still 2mm wider and I would rather pinch a bit of cheaper RG58 with a door or window than a nice bit of Aircell 7! The loss difference on an 8ft (2.4m) run is pretty minimal in this instance. Although I share your view on Aircell 7 as its a very nice grade of coax indeed. 73
@@timg5tm941 just a thought
@@roach1317 appreciate the comment 73 👍
I am going to try it with a 4:1 UnUn
any comparisons against a half wave vertical instead of a quarter wave?
Good idea
Thanks for a great video. Good content and well presented.
I look forward to your thoughts on setting up your station by the sea. I have had great results with a 1/4 wave vertical with lots of radials on wet sand, really close to the water, including a 57 report from Costa Rica for my 3w station. What I am unclear on is how quickly the benefits drop off with distance from the water. Is there still a significant benefit half a mile from the coast, or from the top of a sea cliff? There doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there and it isn't something that's easy to model.
73 MW0KXN
Kevin thank you. You are so right. I’ve found info about right by the sea… info about average ground and poor ground, but nothing about being 20,100,1000 metres from the shore (on average). I’m looking into this as I type.
I hve made a couple of these work very well 9 to1 unun
Nice!
Hi Tim
Bit late on commenting... I have a very small garden/yard 4.5M by 6.0M
So I have been looking at Verticals. I already have a remote ATU available.
If I put the ATU @ 1M from 4:1 Balun, is it O.K to put the 1:1 choke balun just before ATU..?
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Vertical Wire
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I- [ 4:1 BALUN ]o=== 1M Coax ===o [ Remote ATU ]o=== 1M Coax ===o[ 1:1 Choke ]o======== // 20M Coax //=======o [ RADIO ]
Hi Dave it should be ok. The short coax between the 4:1 and tuner will alter the impedance but it should work. Remember the radials too .. about a total of 40 or 50m worth is fine for 20m and upwards. Maybe double that to help 40m where the antenna is more of a compromise. 73
@@timg5tm941 Thanks
I will have to get creative with Radials... with only 4.5M X 6.0M yard 🙄
I think I’ll give this a go and compare with my DX Commander - I have a Diamond BB7V (22 ft) from my early radio days - it’s a dummy load!! and rob the Balun from a Delta Loop experiment!! Mount a couple of feet up and trail some wire to get the 25 ft of length!! Could be a fun comparison!!! If it works I’ll have found a use for the well built but v v poor Diamond.
Worth a try!!
@@timg5tm941 Ok - I've had time to give it a go!! I had a 9:1 UnUn and mounted it on the BB7V (having removed the dummy load resistors!! transformer it comes with). I compared with my 40/20m loft dipoles and DX Commander lite 1/4 wave. The results - excellent!! I can tune (with LDG 600) 80m - 15m easily!! 80m is going to be quite inefficient, but I've tested 40 and 20 and had great reports (running 200w). For me the advantage is I can easily collapse the antenna which will keep the fam happy in the garden during the summer. The DX commander can come back out in the autumn!! I'll build a 4:1 UnUn when I have a mo and see which gives me the best tune. Great idea Tim - Thanks!!
@@Sinaisid brilliant!!!
Why use a 4:1 Balun in an unbalanced system, instead of a 4:1 UnUn ?
I brought this up in my recent comments to Tim. An UNun is the proper device, and is typically not needed anyway.
Would a 9:1 UNUN or a 16:1 UNUN not be better.
9:1 possibly so. I chose the 4:1 as this seems to be the preferred option from manufacturers. 16:1.. only issue I see there is reducing the impedance down so low that even an atu at the feedpoint might struggle to tune it. 73
Why 7.6mtrs ? Why not make a 7.5mtr or 7.4 mtrs , what lenght gives better swr ? A 7.5 mtr , no balun is a 30 mtr 1/4wave , why dont u ever mention 30 mtr ? What if u ONLY want it for 20 to 10 mtrs , what lenght is best?
7.6 is the sweet spot between avoiding 1/2 wave on 15/17, not being too long on 10 and being just about long enough to be respectable on 40. For 20-10 if you want shorter try 7m long
Кто такой Рыбаков?
Hello .
Just worth saying, my 'emergency antenna' when everything else isn't playing ball, is a 9:1 feeding 10 metres of vertical, with 16 radials.
Just tuning it in the shack, it has worked a fair bit of DX. Is it a powerful signal? Not really. Does it get out? Yes, it can.
On remote ATUs, my MFJs have been the font of all disappointment, working brilliantly one moment, and not even at all the next. They're fickle. Incredibly fickle.
Yes they have a reputation at times.
thx for the qso 57 into liverpool 2e0ilf
Likewise! 73